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Forum Post: The First Step is Choosing the Right Path

Posted 7 months ago on Dec. 19, 2013, 7:40 a.m. EST by jennifer (-67) from Allentown, PA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

All around me and on this forum I see so many people erring on the wrong path. They try to explain complex events by using conspiracy theories, they try to explain the complexity of life by turning towards the fantasy of the divine, they try to fight oppression by using protest methods like immolation, they counter the arguments of others with logical fallacies, etc...

The only way to start fixing the problems of the world is to start by understanding what the real world is. This takes time and effort. There are no shortcuts. We need to use logic, science, proper debating mechanisms, proper means of investigation etc...

It makes me sad because all these people on wrong paths are simply wasting time. Precious time that could be used to better the world.

For a short time, humanity did start following the right path. Enlightenment was a good thing. Fantasies were swept away in exchange for proper analysis. Unfortunately, we have been returning to our deluded ways. A cursory look at the Internet and TV shows this. People like Alex Jones get high ratings. Channels like the history channel rely on conspiracy theory type thinking to explain the world. People with cancer try to heal using baking soda. Etc...

We must get back on the right path before it's too late. If we do, there is much good work that could be done. So please, don't waste your time with delusions. Yes, they are comforting because of their ease, but they don't solve a thing. Solving real problems demands real work.

20 Comments

20 Comments


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[-] 5 points by Jason91 (-50) 7 months ago

You would have to be delusional to believe Conspiracies are NOT prevalent in today's world. Especially after the NSA fiasco. Due to the public's lack of access to information, most will remain unproven. Deemed Mumbo Jumbo. Jennifer aka MR.T, although you extol the virtues of your higher education, you seem to lack much "street smarts". Most of our "news" is now owned by corporations who have a financial interest in "editing" the news for public consumption. Our elected officials are obligated to wealthy sponsors for donations. This effects corruption, as evidenced in legislation. The govt collects vast information, yet conseals vast information, etc, etc.

Most of what Occupy is against could be classified as "Conspiracy theories". To say Wall St is engaged in a conspiracy, is a Mumbo Jumbo Conspiracy Theory in itself. Otherwise, our judicial system would incarcerate the law breakers and end all the injustice. The 1% are conspiring against the 99%. More Mumbo, Jumbo. Unless you're saying our judicial system is in on it too. Another mumbo jumbo Conspiracy Theory of yours? Then I suppose our political duopoly(monopoly) is another one of your mumbo jumbo conspiracy theories. Let's not forget your mumbo jumbo conspiracy theories about the "Twinkle team". Where is your proof for all of the conspiracy theories you profess? Why are you so prolific in espousing your own conspiracy theories, yet condemn others for theirs?

With corruption so prevalent, what institution, entity, organization,etc can establish when a conspiracy exists? Or when it's mumbo jumbo?

[-] -3 points by jennifer (-67) from Allentown, PA 7 months ago

Hi GypsyKing. Nice to have you back.

As I explained to you before, "conspiracy theory" is an English expression. Like many expressions, it cannot be understood by simply juxtaposing the definitions of both words much like "hot dog" is not literally a dog which is hot. For example, the word theory in conspiracy theory has nothing to do with scientific theories.

Conspiracy theory is a form of literary narrative with very specific aspects. It's a method used in order to explain an event. A flawed method. It's in complete contrast with other methods like journalistic investigative work and the scientific method.

A conspiracy theory starts with a cognitive bias. The conspiracy theorists starts with a conclusion and then works hard to manipulate evidence in order to justify is claim. This is opposite of good investigative works with starts by looking at the evidence in order to form a conclusion of what happened.

They cherry pick quotes, exaggerate the meanings of claims, fail to distinguish between experts and laymen, and use all types of other logical fallacies. They paint a black and white cartoon-like picture of an event with a simplistic explanation of one evil entity against an all good entity. Usually, the government is painted as all evil and the people are painted as all good.

One of the defining features is that a conspiracy theory cannot stand alone, it must be in relation with another theory, one which claims is wrong. 911 is a good example. 911 conspiracy theories are defined as being against the official investigation. What they do is try to find holes in that investigation as if that provided them with evidence. Those who claim a missile hit the Pentagon don't find wreckage of a missile, testimony of people who saw the missile, etc... They claim a missile hit because there was no wreckage of a plane (so they say). We know there was wreckage of a plane, but even if there wasn't, that would not be evidence of a missile. It's absolutely ironic that they claim a plane could not have hit because there was no wreckage, but then claim a missile hit even though they have no wreckage.

Creationists work the same way. They find holes in the Theory of Evolution, they don't find evidence for their pet theory.

You would have to be delusional to believe Conspiracies are NOT prevalent in today's world.

Saying conspiracy theories are mumbo jumbo is not saying there are no conspiracies. Like I explained above, conspiracy theories are a literary genre. I'm against that genre because it's a flawed research method. If one uses a proper method like investigative journalism, one might very well uncover a conspiracy.

Although, and this is important, conspiracies are usually on a small scale and used to cover up something that went wrong. They are very seldom on a large scale and used to initiate something.

Examples of conspiracy theories include 911 Trutherism, chemtrails, anti-vaxers, Global Warming denialists, etc... This is what I am against.


I know you cannot be convinced. This is not my goal. I hope my message will reach other readers.

We must start looking at the real world through the lens of proper research. Only then can we really understand the problems and attempt to find a solution.

It's nice to see you again GypsyKing. I hope you stay with us a bit longer this time. Cheers.

In case you want to learn more about conspiracy theories:

http://www.theaugeanstables.com/2013/10/18/on-the-dangers-of-conspiracy-theories-brief-reflections/

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/eichenwald/2013/04/creeping-danger-conspiracy-theorists

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 7 months ago

please, let's not double speak theory

[-] 2 points by shooz (17684) 7 months ago

For you?

The path has always been puppets, bots, lies, and avoidance of reality.

For instance.

Honestly and directly answer these simple questions.

How many user names have you used here on the forum and what were they?

Any evasive non-answer, means YOU are a conspiracy theory unto yourself.

Why haven't you taken your conspiracy theory show on the road to places like FLAKESnews, where you could actually do some good?

Answers to these questions would require actual work and a high degree of honesty.

Should I hold my breath?

[-] -3 points by jennifer (-67) from Allentown, PA 7 months ago

Meh, avoidance of reality? Please. I stopped using bots over 1 year and a half ago. And bots never stopped anyone from expressing their views. You on the other hand refuse to stop banning and censoring almost all users not part of your twinkle team. Grow up. Start respecting Occupy principals. Stop attacking and censoring others. You are an oppressor, not an occupier. The only thing you Occupy is your old age home.

It's time you stop avoiding the obvious reality that you are a tyrant just like the 1% who enjoys using his power to crush others.

[-] -3 points by jennifer (-67) from Allentown, PA 7 months ago

I wish I could use one username, but that is impossible with a censorship happy tyrant like yourself at the helm. All you care about is attacking others and using your power over them. Just like the 1%. You're Occupy's biggest contradiction. Occupy's biggest embarrassment.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17684) 7 months ago

Like I said, it's you who is the conspiracy theory.

There's nothing but evasion and the logical fallacies, you like to accuse everyone else of, in your response.

A truly great pretender. Liar, by any accurate definition.

I'm not the tyrant, you are.

I'm a simple "security" guard, with few tools at my disposal.

Something that you should be aware of, if you were not such a liar.

This is why I question. This is why I react "poorly" to evasiveness.

Especially, your nasty brand of evasion and lying.

I particularly don't like the fact that you think you speak for Occupy.

You don't. No one here does.

I'm going to ask you nicely now, to take your conspiracy theory self on the road, and try and work on something positive.

It amazes me at times, to realize just how far off track you've been all these years, and how much you've missed.

Here's a recent Occupy success, along with an unanswered thread from a year ago..

http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupy-the-sec-wow/

I followed the link for you.

http://www.sec.gov/comments/s7-41-11/s74111-230.pdf

http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupy-the-sec-and-the-volker-rule/

Gosh darn it, but I don't see a response from Jenny. Not a peep.

Nope. But you're still bitching about black bloc.

Run along and play now, while you still have this username.

[+] -4 points by jennifer (-67) from Allentown, PA 7 months ago

A "simple security guard" that attacks and bans everyone he disagrees with. Good occupiers like Odin, PeterPropotkin and so many others. Oppression comes in many forms. You are an oppressor. Whether you think you're being a "simple security guard" is irrelevant. Users on this forum don't need your protection. They are old enough to decide what they want to read by themselves. Occupiers don't ban and censor others. That's what the 1% do.

And look here, you post completely off-topic comments on my page. A good moderator wouldn't do that. He would try to keep the discussion on topic.

You're the biggest failure on this site and everyone knows it. If only you would know what everyone here calls you in your back you would be ashamed. Iv'e rarely met old disgruntled idiots such as yourself. You redefine the idea of the old disgruntled man.

[-] 6 points by shadz66 (18289) 7 months ago

''You're the biggest failure on this site and everyone knows it.'' .. yep, you've got that right as you stare at the mirror that is your computer screen - so stop taking your issues with your dad, out on shooz, lol.

Those of us who have been here for a while and who don't have memories like goldfish, remember your behaviour & your constant sniping and self-important yet baseless, self-regarding arrogance. You have acted to undermine & co-opt this forum for a long time by utilising your snake like, reptilian, chameleon nature & using certain known & standardised techniques, cf : http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Concern_troll !!

All forums need mods because of creeps like you & you have driven mods and posters to distraction. I have never called for your banning but I do advocate a slap upside your head tho' lol but I'm watching an excellent doc. about Australian 'First Peoples' right now as I type this & here's a follow up article by the doc. maker, as a metaphorical slap upside your head to help you in ''choosing the right path'' :

You don't give a flying fuck for The 99% or for OWS. This is a big fkng game for you. You don't actually like other people. You consider yourself better and more clever than everyone else you know. You are an unloved and almost unlovable loner & there won't be anyone to even piss on your grave when you've breathed your last & I actually feel sorry for you. Repent. Change your ways. Now still your over-active, arrogant, racing mind ; open your heart and look to find and repair what's left of your corroded soul and twisted little spirit. Come join the human race. Be a 'human being' not a 'human having' or 'human doing'.

temet nosce et cura te ipsum ...

[+] -4 points by jennifer (-67) from Allentown, PA 7 months ago

Nope, I never tried to undermine this forum. I undermined conspiracy theorists and Jew haters and that was a good thing. They are mostly gone. I also undermined the twinkle team because they are dangerous. I was the first to realize this. Now everyone sees it, but it's too late. They have censored all the good users here.

You don't give a flying fuck for The 99% or for OWS. This is a big fkng game for you. You don't actually like other people. You consider yourself better and more clever than everyone you know.

In all honesty, you are completely wrong. You have never understood me. Ask gnomunny or Renneye. They could help you understand why I am here. I stand by everything I say. If I say that conspiracy theorists are dangerous it's because I really believe they are. It's not a game for me at all.

Repent. Change your ways.

Impossible with people like you and shooz. You don't progress. You hold on to the past. I stopped using bots almost 2 years ago as I realized it was wrong. Shooz and yourself still talk about that to this day.

You are both from an expired generation. You should be playing bingo, not trying to lead a revolution.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17684) 7 months ago

"Nope, I never tried to undermine this forum."

Yes.

Yes you did.

Multiple times.

With multiple methods.

Mostly conspiracy theory.

The only true statemented you could make, is that you've NEVER admitted it.

Logical fallacies can't help you now.

[-] -3 points by jennifer (-67) from Allentown, PA 7 months ago

Meh, that's what you say to everyone in the long list of users you banned. Look at the forum, only your twinkle team is left save for a few others I can count on my hand. You kicked everyone off, and the others ran away because you lowered the intellectual discussion to abysmal levels.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17684) 7 months ago

Lying and evading again, isn't helping you any.

How's things in Allentown?

Do accuse your neighbors of believing in reptillians?

Many were chased off by your incessant Bullshit on the subject, and YOU were the ONLY one to bring that shit up.

Just you.

Even now, you continue to use conspiracy theory to support your position.

You still refuse to be honest.

Will you answer those questions now?

Is it even within the realm of possibility?

Bots and puppetry is what chased off a whole lot more.

Yep.

You did that. Along with your conspiracy theories.

[+] -4 points by jennifer (-67) from Allentown, PA 7 months ago

Meh, I don't need help. Everyone already knows you're a tyrant.

I never posted a single conspiracy theory here. People like alouis, shedz66, and others did that. Sounds like you're the liar.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17684) 7 months ago

Another logical fallacy?

Really?

You use them to avoid honesty. Sad really.

Why not talk about the " rape insurance" law recently enacted in Michigan?

Why no comment on OccupytheSEC's recent success at the National level?

Why is it everything you do here all reverts back to you, or your repeated attacks on certain forum members?

Like I said, I'm just an observant security guard, with the bluntest of tools.

Unlike you, at least I'm honest.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by shooz (17684) 7 months ago

Sorry. You're lying and evading AGAIN.

You attacked me. I blocked the thread, as I always do. You've also attacked me and others, in posts on other threads.

Bad form. Very bad form. Cowardly.

Your issues with banning can be taken up by jart. If you dare.

Mention it again, and I will consider it concern trolling, so I hope that's the last time have to hear that shit.

Will you answer my questions?

Or will you continue in your conspiratorial, evasive manner?

I'm aware that few people appreciate security guards, but in no way am I ashamed.

I've NEVER used a bot, or a puppet and if I were to be banned, I'd have the good sense to be on my way.

Can you say the same?

[+] -5 points by jennifer (-67) from Allentown, PA 7 months ago

Whatever turns your crank tyrant boy. I only express ideas which is what the forum is for. You ban users and censor their ideas. You are the tyrant, not I. The users on this forum do not need your lame security efforts. They can decide what they want to read for themselves.

And, why would you block this posting? It doesn't attack anybody. It states the truth, that we should use proper methods of investigation so that we understand the real world and its problems instead of falling into fantasy. It's really important.

The only protesting you ever did was complain to your old home manager that bingo started too late. Make it 7, not 8. I get tired too fast.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17684) 7 months ago

Um actually, you just employed one of your logical fallacies to attack me, yet again.

If want to continue to play phony martyr, I guess I could oblige you.

Just say please.

But please, stop pretending you actually provide cogent on topic threads.

Please stop pretending that concern trolling is activism.

It isn't.

Any more than you continuing to repeat the same lies you told two years ago, is dissent.

It isn't.

You don't.

You never did.

I don't really have a problem with that, but I was hoping, just this once, you would express honesty and real candor about yourself.

I don't hold out a lot of hope, but I do still hold some hope.

I noticed too, that you had no comment on the Occupy success I conveniently proved links to.

The fantasy, as always is yours and yours alone.

How about some cogent comments on your new chosen, phony home of Allentown?

Or even something on Pennsylvania?

[-] 1 points by AlwaysIntoSomething (42) 7 months ago

With the amount of lies coming from government the last 15 years, combined with the technology of the people to communicate, its no wonder the rise in "conspiracy theories" is up.

Habitual liars are just that. Those around them have no way to tell what really happened, what the real scenario is, no "scientific method" of deeming what the real scoop is...

But they are still throw out the official story because they know its a lie just like everything else.

The one thing you miss out on in what we "need" along the lines of science is MONEY. You cannot investigate something without it. Time spend investigating is time spent away from current job, but the bills keep coming. Part of the joys of being a debt slave.

"All around me and on this forum I see so many people erring on the wrong path." Starting off a call to action with a negative and telling people they are wrong might not be the most effective way of doing things. Perhaps letting people come to their own conclusions is better?

[-] 1 points by DebtNEUTRALITYpetition (586) 7 months ago

I think the Debt Neutrality Petition would help millions of people have more freedom of time because they would have to work less time to pay off debts. Hopefully that saved time is not wasted.

http://www.change.org/petitions/congress-create-debt-neutrality-rights-for-paying-down-credit-cards-student-loans