Forum Post: The Decline of Critical Thinking: "Just How Stupid Are We? Facing the Truth about the American Voter "
Posted 10 years ago on May 7, 2013, 9:11 p.m. EST by OTP
(-203)
from Tampa, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Its no great mystery that we are in a major crisis.
" ignorance of non-local affairs (often leading to inaccurate assumptions, passive acceptance of authority, and illogical actions) is, in fact, a default position for any population."
Yes it is. As Goering said ""Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
The question is, how many people out of that population have to get involved and going in order to create the kind of massive change we have seen with other movements throughout history?
2%?
5%?
10%?
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/04/05/the-decline-of-critical-thinking/
Yep America is in a major crisis. You forgot to mention this ever growing state of hording and competition. You know once upon a time I glimpsed a life where others taught things to people for free (it was an artistic field) where personal achievement was more sought after than being better and "beating everyone else at a game". People freely apprenticed and offered up information to others. Those more experienced and knowledgeable freely passed on their skills to those "beneath" them. It was a world of mutual respect and achievement gained through trust and cooperation and becoming so innately good yourself that you are not worried about being outshined and knowing that you can still always learn even from even those you may teach to. I live in a world now where I see information is being horded. People won't even go so much out of their way as to show someone how to use a fax machine let alone anything of real value. Worth is measured by what you paid out and what you can keep for yourself. There is no inner sense of passion or goals or interest going on in America's workplaces. There is no inner desire to pass on what is known or what has been learned. It is a cultural wasteland resembling Animal Farm. What kind of world are we living in? Would we have music or scientific knowledge, or hell even food, if our ancestors had horded all that they knew and refused to pass it on to those of lesser means or access? To say I will keep this information to myself because it increases my "value" and I paid for it why should you learn anything for free? "Why should I give you one step forward when no one gave one to me when in fact keeping you down increases my own bottom line?" "Why should I train you?" It all seems fake. When information is not exchanged, when there is so much competition and hording and false value created merely by scarcity and hording, nothing can grow or expand and value merely by lack of competition or others ability to pay for the same access, is not actually value, it is just trumped up bullshit.
Beautiful comment. So true.
The schools are designed to prepare students (1) for the marketplace and (2) to make them loyal citizens.
The marketplace is most often a top-down, authoritarian world and loyalty comes from myth-making and emotional bonds. In both cases, really effective critical thinking might well be incompatible with the desired end.
Good quote from counterpunch
Reminds me of Plato's Noble Lie... that governments lie to the citizens for some noble reason. But of course there is no limit to the secrecy in a Duopoly especially when the government privatizes Prison & Exports War & Weapons.
One point in the article was that maybe Critical Thinking should be taught outside of school. I guess there could be community clubs or associations. I still think we should have a public TV & Radio Station teaching about Fraud, Con Games, Advertising, Corruption, Economics, Business principals, ... Sponsored by the FTC & DOL who are supposed to protect consumers and Pensions. Say 24/7 Programing on citizen TV on PBS.
Also reminds me that if a President can go to war without Congress then he has too much power. And if we have torture, kidnaping, rendition, secret prisons we have the proof of corruption in Washington ... and the Reason to Limit Congress's Power, Relationships, Contact with Corporations, and Lobbying, Campaign Contributions, and Gifts of any kind.
Clearly Human Rights Violations approved by Washington DC is enough to get US People to Understand US Corruption if the Iraqi War is not.
Million Dollar Bonus, Jack Lew, to work for Treasury, Paid by Citibank.
The Reverse Revolving Door: How Corporate Insiders Are Rewarded Upon Leaving Firms for Congress
Disclosures reveal that corporations and lobbying firms award six-figure bonuses to staff who leave to take powerful positions on Capitol Hill.
Lee Fang, May 4, 2013
Recent disclosures and employment agreements reviewed by The Nation show that current leadership staff to both Democratic and Republican lawmakers have received six-figure bonuses and other incentive pay from corporate firms shortly before taking jobs in Congress. In many cases, these staffers are well positioned to influence multibillion-dollar legislation on issues ranging from tax policy to defense, and which impact their previous employers. If government officials turned lobbyists reflect a well-known “revolving door,” paying corporate employees big bucks to leave lucrative posts to take jobs in government reflect a “reverse revolving door.”
http://www.thenation.com/article/174151/reverse-revolving-door-how-coporate-insiders-are-rewarded-upon-leaving-firms-congress#
Seems to apply to problem of critical thinking
What is this we shit? You got a mouse in your pocket?
The length of time it will take is dependent on how long it takes for you to recognize that there are other organizations at work that are moving in the same direction. You don't have to like 'em but you do need to acknowledge their existence.
Critical thinking is or was allowed and taught in public schools prior to the testing companies/text book companies and those dedicated to destroying the public education system. My state is in a ninety million dollar four year contract with Pearson. The teachers have been forced to teach to a test.
International relations is pretty easy to grasp providing you are willing to look at things such as IMF/World Bank and contracts underneath the political angle.
Are there groups that are working to remove central planned test in Illi?
Its kind of a "we" problem, because regardless of what we do as individuals, the groups actions-or lack thereof- reign supreme in most cases. I can go to all the actions I want, if the public refuses to get involved, it makes it very tough...we found that out personally with occupy.
Here's some teachers that decided to make a stand- http://www.alternet.org/activism/teacher-rebellion-refusal-administer-standardized-testing-spreads-washington
Im not sure how it turned out, but good to see.
Um........there were student walk outs all over the place. I provided you with links to actions that have been taken. Remember? Not to mention parents opt out.
It's like having to have the exact same conversation with you repeatedly. Some kind of Ground Hog Day shit.
I was going to ask if you were involved in them.
No, you weren't. In fact, you weren't, just like now, going to even acknowledge that they occurred in the first place.
Well I know that Julie is still refusing to speak to SDS here at USF about why they are raising them again, so its obviously happening. Unfortunately the couple that were lead organizers this past year on that stuff are graduating.
Again. I have repeatedly given you links to organizations where this is at the forefront and the actions are occurring at the K-12 level and university level.
And again are you involved with any of them? It would be a good place to present your research.
My research? You mean the same information that I gave you? The same research that you can't seem to manage to find on your own?
A) Yes you are more versed in all the underlying financial information on schools than I am, I have no problem admitting that. Its a good thing that someone is.
B) Im saying that most people have no clue about what you speak of, like the Pearson 90 million dollars stats.
If someone doesnt get the info out, it doesnt move anywhere. And we keep moving towards Springerville.
Dude, you are going in circles again.
True indeed.
Sad how America is spiraling down towards crap. Education is getting worse, people are getting fat, conspiracy theories are taking over reality. Intellectual skinny Americans are becoming something of the past. Jerry Springer's guest are the best examples an anthropologist could use to evaluate and attempt an understanding of Americans. US is a lost country. Sad but true.
You know, it's not so much a spiraling downward phenomenon. Although, there is a real Springer element to our society. I do agree with you on that.
It's getting worse. Here's a good article: http://www.vanityfair.com/online/eichenwald/2013/04/creeping-danger-conspiracy-theorists
I have two theories for the end of US.
1) Death by immobility. People get so fat they can barely walk let alone repel an invading country. Invaders coull simply push Americans away and they will roll to the side.
2) Death by sinking. If my measurements are correct America could soon sink due to the weight of its habitants. Another Atlantis.
That is almost funny.
It isn't going to end. There is No Armageddon. There is one third of adults, according to CDC, that are obese. You have a ways to go.
1/3 of adults that are obese is a huge number!
Live outside America for a few years. When you come back, the first thing that hits you is all the fat girls and boys. Unreal!
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/story/2012-05-07/obesity-projections-adults/54791430/1
Obesity could affect up to 42% of Americans by 2030 (USA today)
As fast food (?) travels to other countries along with high fructose corn syrup - the rest of the world is catching up. Another blessing to the world from corpoRATions.
Catching up perhaps, but not even close by any means. You notice it right away when you enter US. Everyone is way fatter than anywhere else in the world. It's disgusting and quite disturbing. There's also way more fast foods in US than anywhere else in the world. That's another thing you notice right away. Hard to find proper restaurants.
Supports the fact of:
GREED THE #1 CAUSE OF DISEASE/DEATH/DESTRUCTION IN THE WORLD.
Also points out a driving force behind Democide.
In-case you were wondering : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide
red herring. Stick with the subject. And stop giving definitions to other people. It's not because you just discovered a new word that other people didn't learn it ages ago.
Funny - at "best" that is you in your presence here.
I'm not changing subjects and using ad hominem. You are.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022814420
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/05/08/heritage-study-co-author-opposed-letting-in-immigrants-with-low-iqs/
It must be nice not to know what a (R)epelican't is.
Or to reply to the OP.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022814129
Never mentioned those places. I would say they are worse in many respects except they aren't populated by fat girls. But there are many countries much better than US. US is just becoming crappier and crappier. You guys love guns and taking away rights from minorities.
No.
That's just the (R)epelican'ts.
You did claim to be an extra in chop socky movies, didn't you?
Most are filmed and produced in Hong Kong.
But then, I have to admit that honesty was never something that thrasy ever practiced.
Unbelievable what US citizens accept. Ya, let's stop low IQ immigrants, let's stop women from voting, let's stop gays from getting married. When are you US citizens going to stand up? WTF... Unbelievable.
Gay rights are better in Mexico for Pete sake.
You act like it's any better in Hong Kong, Singapore, or even London.
It's not.
what are the "gay rights" is egypt,syria, jordan, lebanon, yemen, kuwait, saudia arabia?
If those are the countries US wants to be more advanced than in terms of human rights you really are aiming low. Why not aim higher? "Look mom, we have better gay rights than in Kuwait!" "Son, so what!"
Your point? Yes, I do a lot of shoots in Hong Kong. Doesn't mean I like the place, and it has nothing to do with me bashing US. You think it's only republicans? No, sorry. It affects all of US. I would never live in US because you guys don't help each other. No social programs at all. It's disturbing for such a rich country. You let your poor people die. They can't go to the hospital. You dish minorities. It's disgusting. And, most of you are all fat asses. Gross.
What a wonderfully fact free post!!!
You must practice a lot.
YES, Virginia, it IS and has been done by and large by the (R)epelican'ts, using resources such as these.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Portal:State_Policy_Network
http://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed
Seeing as you are busy body sculpting and playing as a bit part extra, I don't expect you to understand how all of those things work in concert to get the results we are now seeing here, but these are ALL conse(R)vative organizations that work primarily with the (R)eplican'ts and the libe(R)tarians..
Nice to know you are fascinated by the obese. Jealous?
In response to your comment -
This comment:
Is very much on point.
Yeah right. I'm blind because I don't listen to Alex Jones like you. Yap, I'm just one of the sheeple. Fast asleep. Consider yourself lucky you have been awoken by the #1 conspiracy theorist in America.
Or maybe you're just too gullible.
You really are this site's village idiot.
Still can't stop looking at Ur self or talking 2 Ur self.
Are you implying that the US government is purposely fattening up US citizens out of greed to create a democide. Sorry buddy. I don't fall for conspiracy theories. You'll have to provide proof. Pointing the finger and saying "THEY did it. It's all THEM THEM THEM." is not enough for me. I demand evidence.
You're in US, so I understand you're into Alex Jones. All occupiers are not from US however. I grew up reading and listening to real philosophers, not quacks.
Willfully Blind U R as well as stuck on stupid.
!/3 is not 2/3 and it isn't 3/4 either.
It's 1/3 which is much higher than other countries! And, that number has been on the rise for many decades. Projections for 50% exist for around 2035-2040. 1/3 of Americans are obese! That means they are so fat that it is unhealthy. It's a huge problem. 1 of 3 people is dangerously fat.
Projections for 50% exist for around 2035-2040
So much for the serious site yadayadayada.
Are you fat? Is that why you downplay America's obesity problem?
I wear a size four.
You jelly?
Are you fat?
Looks 2 B a popular comment. {;-]) U short Italian/Irish/English legally blind chic ( vixen? ) and - SIGH magical.
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The whole damn conversation is odd.
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I am fat... and like Jerry Springer.
You'll soon be in the majority of Americans. Don't worry.
Im predicting that comment gets crazy twinkles over the next 24 hrs :)
Why? I would find it odd that anyone would be that interested.
Well - this inquiring mind ................. {:-]) is always interested in GF.
There isn't much to know. I'm a short Italian/Irish/English legally blind chic. The days that I think I'm looking damn good is the day that I have managed to put mascara on one eye or have some piece of toilet paper attached to one high heel OR and this is my favorite, have some how managed to get caught in each and every door I encounter (coat, purse, whatever). I miraculously have a hole in the left elbow of all jackets/long sleeved shirts and coats that I own. I wear the same pink tennis shoes that I bought over a decade ago. At times it seems as if I am a walking sitcom.
LOL - And - SIGH you are magical. {:-])
lol.
{:-])
Don't let her snow you DKA, let your imagination run and its all true. Very classy.
Stop, you havent noticed how your title gets you all sorts of twinkles for the strangest comments?
And?
I'm not from US. I have a strong built. Not fat. Like Bruce Lee, but a little less cut. I play extras in karate films.
Which films?
Wu Dang, Wrath of Vajra, stuff like that. A lot fo B movies shot in Hong-Kong. Many didn't even make it to the cinema. Straight to DVD.
wrath of Viagra?
Stupid uncultivated American. "he he... he he.... (grunt like neanderthal sounds)... the word tennis sounds like penis... He he... he he...."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajra
Ur Comprehension issue raised again. U think that ten sounds like pee?
So, I merely watch B movies. You star in them.
Ya, as an extra, for money. It pays well and the work is easy. Mostly have to wait for the makeup to go on. I have the body, so why not. While they put on makeup, which takes 80% of the job's time, I can read books and educate myself on whatever subject I wish.
I bet that's interesting.
I bet that's sarcasm.
Nah. It is rather interesting.
Loves living in a fantasy world - Don't it?
You and shooz are like dumb and dumber. I just don't know which one is dumber.
Well, I guess if it's true it is rather interesting. But I'm finding it hard to believe Thrasymaque is starring as an extra in Hong Kong B-movies. And I'm no expert by any stretch, but I guess it's possible to read a book while the make-up artists are dolling up your face and/or body, but it seems to me if he was reading anything during that time, it wouldn't be a book.
It'd be the fucking script. Call me skeptical, I guess, heheh.
In all the years I worked as an extra, I was never given a script. Furthermore, directors only tell us exactly what to do a few moments before the shoot.
Extras usually don't speak at all. Many times I'm part of a crowd. Perhaps I'll be in the background sitting at a table in a restaurant, or just walking down the street.
Prolly. I figure it's his lie, I'd just let him tell it.
I keep thinking that somewhere in this is a dubbing joke.
Wu Tang?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Dang_(film)
… and yet Americans have one of the highest living standards in the world. Our prosperity has morphed into decadence. I think it’s safe to say the masses are fat and happy.
Make ‘em Prove the Causality before They Cause Any More Suffering: Part One
Posted on May 2, 2013 by Joe Firestone
OK, austerity has always been about the causality. The people who are trying their best to get us to cut more and more spending, somewhat less than their best to get us to raise taxes, and who are doing nothing to fix our fraud-laden financial system, or the worst period of dis-employment we’ve experienced since the Great Depression, have been making other people (never themselves) suffer, because they believe the theory that excessive public debt hurts economic growth, and that to get rid of it we must follow a plan of long-term deficit reduction. And I’m being very charitable when I opine that they believe in this theory, because the alternative is that they don’t believe it, but are just using it as an excuse to make other people suffer, and widen the wealth gap between themselves and the rest of the population.
http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2013/05/make-em-prove-the-causality-before-they-cause-any-more-suffering-part-one.html (click for full article)
Part Two will review the recent empirical research on the R-R study.
http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2013/05/make-em-prove-the-causality-before-they-cause-any-more-suffering-part-two-the-fall-and-after.html
When Reinhart and Rogoff published their work they did not make their data set available to people to replicate, analyze, critique their findings, and augment to improve the data set. They ignored the scientific norm that you do that when you’re claiming that you’ve made an important empirical discovery. Other researchers wrote them and requested access to their data set in vain for at least the past three years.
Then a few weeks, ago, they finally yielded to a request for the data set made by Thomas Herndon, a Graduate Student in economics at the University of Massachusetts (UMass) in Amherst. Herndon tried to replicate their analysis and findings and could not do so. In fact he found errors. Here’s a summary from the paper he co-authored with two of his professors, Michael Ash, and Robert Pollin, both of the economics department (hereafter called HAP).
In Part One, I asked whether the Carmen Reinhart/Kenneth Rogoff study and book didn’t show that, on average, nations experiencing debt-to-GDP ratios above 90% had negative rates of economic growth? And I said the answer to the question was “no.” Part 2 explains why that was true.
The two articles above summarize the flagrant violations of scientific principles in the now infamous work of Rogoff and Reinhart. There is a Part 3 coming which we will link in a future reading list or post as a guest article.
I question the funding for OWS. Basically, most financial roads lead back to either Soros or the Koch brothers. Try being a moderate and actually proposing solutions, nobody crosses over.
Debt Suspension Rights would give tens of millions of americans an instant stronghold in fighting back against the dishonesty of Wall Street and those who constantly bribe congress.
Instead, we get incessant verbal battles over gun rights and increasing the budget deficit and putting a rich person in jail. I'd rather save 10 million people from foreclosure via debt suspension rights than worry about the ultra rich, but on this site, I am in a minority.
For instance, check out the private council for ALEC. Here is the link:
http://www.alec.org/about-alec/private-enterprise-advisory-council/
Then do some homework and see who is accepting funds from these companies.
Then ask yourself how you can be against ALEC and yet support the people whom their "private council" is funding?
Someone should go to their annual event to learn their tactics and methods,
https://netforum.avectra.com/eweb/DynamicPage.aspx?Site=ALEC&WebCode=EventDetail&evt_key=e1677ca9-d59d-4a53-91a3-997381f12908
I really dont think they are using tactics that are very hard to grasp, its more a case of the people giving them a free pass to do as they please.
They have meetings, they plan their thoughts, then they prepare them in paper form, then they find people to submit them for them. All the stuff that the people in this country are suppose to be doing, yet no one is.
That being said, those nice sized checks to slide to all the Dem and Rep politicians is a nice perk that we simply dont have.
But we do have numbers.
Cognitive distortions were surrepticiously made a part of 40 years of media conditioning. Distortions do not work with critical thinking.
When the cognitive distortions were adopted by a generation, their ability to conduct progressive cognitive discussion suffered. Critical thinking became something too deep for social gatherings.
Now, twice removed, are incognizable theories based on a series of selected distortions used as maxims to filter all the info used in discussion. This activity is actually presented as critical thinking instead of the deceptive infiltration of BS it is.
In the case of a false group of posters in a forum, a confounding irrational structure is imposed. Critical thinking is blocked.
In other words people are not as stupid as they appear. Garbage in, garbage out.
I say 10% and decreasing as conditions warrant ignoring msm and getting educated outside the false groups of partisan politics.
From the article...." One thing that can be said is that this is not an abnormal state of
affairs. As has been suggested in prior analyses, ignorance of non-local affairs (often
leading to inaccurate assumptions, passive acceptance of authority, and illogical
actions) is, in fact, a default position for any population.
To put it another way, the majority of any population will pay little or no attention to
news stories or government actions that do not appear to impact their lives or the lives
of close associates. If something non-local happens that is brought to their attention
by the media, they will passively accept government explanations and simplistic
solutions."
A sad state of affairs.
So what can activists do to combat this very common and extremely frustrating situation?
The problem is people can’t internalize everything that wants something from them. For instance charities like cancer research, child abuse, helping the homeless, etc.. are all worthwhile and valuable efforts, but there are so many you can’t pay attention to all of them. The same example applies to political and social issues as well.
So I submit a lot of the problem is people just don’t have the capacity to deal with all the crap thrown at them. They have to tune it out just to stay sober.
The other thing is people are involved in their own lives. A person working two jobs to feed the family probably doesn’t have the time or energy to deal with anything beyond his own little world. I think that fits a large portion of society. People don’t have the time or energy to deal with the world at large. It takes everything they can do just to keep a roof over their head.
So, How do you get people to listen and care about your ideals? I think just simple marketing your message is part of it. You put a guy in a nice suit on the news talk shows. You buy air time to and promote a positive message. You join and enlist other group that have similar messages, and call a press conference.
A real life example. Many years ago Outlaw biker clubs started doing PR to improve their image. They participate in charity events, they created organizations outside the clubs that work to help the needy. On any week-end you will find members of outlaw motorcycle clubs joining and helping the community. It make the news and seems to have improved the image of these bad ass bikers.
I think big cultural awareness concerts, such as woodstock, wouldn't hurt.
We need a massive peace and love movement, like in the 60s, (which ended when Vietnam war ended, and MLK was killed) to be reignited.
Massive get togethers to expand consciousness and awareness at music festivals, where the message of awakening can be spread person to person.
Short of that, massive miniturized versions of above.
If we had a budget we could walk around neighborhoods and distribute flyers, like religious groups do.
........................................................................................................................... Eventually
The people need, in a democracy, means of "greater free speech" to a wider audience via the media the populace is accustomed, TV
NOnprivate TV for: The Green party needs a TV Network. OWS a TV Network. Justice Party a Network. Varied public interest groups, a network.
FairVote And public campaign finance.
you realize the war ending and mlk being assassinated were like 7 years apart right. i believe the war ended in 75 he was shot in 68.
It was a protracted demise
By the 1970s, the 1960s zeitgeist that had spawned hippie culture seemed to be on the wane.[72][73][74] The events at Altamont Free Concert[75] shocked many Americans,[76] including those who had strongly identified with hippie culture. Another shock came in the form of the Sharon Tate and Leno and Rosemary LaBianca murders committed in August 1969 by Charles Manson and his "family" of followers. Nevertheless, the turbulent political atmosphere that featured the bombing of Cambodia and shootings by National Guardsmen at Jackson State University and Kent State University still brought people together. These shootings inspired the May 1970 song by Quicksilver Messenger Service "What About Me?", where they sang, "You keep adding to my numbers as you shoot my people down", as well as Neil Young's "Ohio", recorded by Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young. Much of hippie style had been integrated into mainstream American society by the early 1970s.[77][78] Large rock concerts that originated with the 1967 KFRC Fantasy Fair and Magic Mountain Music Festival and Monterey Pop Festival and the 1968 Isle of Wight Festival became the norm, evolving into stadium rock in the process. The anti-war movement reached its peak at the 1971 May Day Protests as over 12,000 protesters were arrested in Washington DC. President Nixon himself actually ventured out of the White House and chatted with a group of the 'hippie' protesters. The draft was ended soon thereafter, in 1973. During the mid 70s, with the end of the draft and the Vietnam War, a renewal of patriotic sentiment associated with the approach of the United States Bicentennial and the emergence of punk in London, Manchester, New York and Los Angeles, the mainstream media lost interest in the hippie counterculture. At the same time there was a revival of the Mod subculture, skinheads, teddy boys and the emergence of new youth cultures, like the goths (an arty offshoot of punk) and football casuals. Acid rock gave way to prog rock, heavy metal, disco, and punk rock.
Wow, I’m impressed. That was a very good overview. However, I would submit the hippie generation was not near as wide spread as we’re led to believe. For most people it was a longer hair, changes in fashion and how people dressed. Beyond that most American didn’t get involved with the political and social issues of the era. The masses grew longer hair, wore short dresses listened to different music and continued to live there life as usual. Kind of like they're doing today with all the crap going on.