Forum Post: The Ability to Go to the Root
Posted 8 years ago on May 16, 2015, 10:01 p.m. EST by turbocharger
(1756)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
The ability to fix things at the root is really the key to fixing things for the long term.
Anyone familiar with the Japanese and Six Sigma knows how powerful this "fix it at the root no matter what" strategy can be.
http://www.isixsigma.com/new-to-six-sigma/getting-started/what-six-sigma/
In power structures there is usually little desire to fix something completely, as those with the power realize that it is those very problems from which they take their power.
Most problems in any structure/system are not hard to fix in terms of the how. Its the execution that is the tough part. In the political world, it is even tougher, as everyone gets a say.
That being said, if the dialogue is controlled to allow very lively debate within a restricted range of solutions (chomsky) it is easily controlled. If its easily controlled, the chances of the general population ever having a real debate on real solutions is slim to none. Its just how it goes.
That was one of the best aspects of occupy, and probably one of the most intrusive to the current establishment (just one more reason why they had to shut it down) was that it provided a platform for discussion, a 24/7 non formal platform.
People showing up and doing nothing but hanging out and kicking all things political. Usually at social gatherings politics is avoided, but not with occupy. It was more than welcomed.
And with discussion comes better understanding. And with better understanding comes better solution through improved creativity.
Creativity has been one of mankinds best assets. We seem to have lost that in our political dialogue.
How do we get it back?
If i understand the forum now dk will remove this post and then muddy the discussion. dk please explain.
See comment = http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-ability-to-go-to-the-root/#comment-1059281
Perhaps you were misinformed. As I Have Not Removed Any Post or Comment.
I am not only misinformed, but confused about how the forum is working. Many posts are being removed, please explain if you understand.
I have not seen a post removed - which posts have you noticed being removed?
I had one removed earlier today, and i see the word removed many times. Typically it is combined into a post of yours which may or may not include you songs. I am confused.
BTW - how would you approach a gentleman like this?
See man hate ACA. See man refuse to get ACA. See man whine that he can't get ACA.
Because to him - it's all about the dems - bout the dems - bout the dems - and not the rethuglicans in his own state government and federal government.
"I am confused"
So am I - I don't quite get what you are saying - are you saying that there appears to be an auto function that is removing certain words? I know the site used to remove automatically any mention of ron paul.
that was just a bored programmer playing with possibilities
that one got a job programming for google
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You know I believe you but have no idea how you would know.
i don't have a reason to believe myself
cultural acceptance and compliance seems beyond my understanding to reason
I've read enough of your posts to know you sometimes have insight. Sometimes I have no idea where you're coming from. lol
i used to be a bored programmer
but i lost out on the market when i quit the military
fun stuff it was automation and research
In politics that root is how the people are represented.
How the people are represented currently - IS - the people elect people to office to act on their behalf to operate within the constraints of a set control = The Constitution.
Problem of that root process - is that people elected to office will do their own thing once they get into office and it need not be anything like what they told you when they were running for office and could very well be contrary to the control that was set over them = The Constitution.
To change that root problem - the public needs to be consistent in how people are chosen for office (who the people put into office) = vet them = what is their record? what do they themselves believe? what do they say? what have they actually done? The people need to consistently choose those who actually represent them and insist that the elected follow their set control and not subvert it (The Constitution).
What happens when that goes wrong and the person in office does not represent the people and does not follow their set control (The Constitution) but goes off into their own dealings for their own interests? ROOT = the people remove them from office. Part of the correction of this root going forward - is - to introduce direct participatory democratic action for the public into government and put teeth into the control = The Constitution - perhaps by tying them to an oath of office that is enforceable and is enforced.
But nowhere in six sigma - does it ever state that you divorce yourself from the process - *NO IT STATES FIRMLY THAT YOU ALWAYS ARE IN CONTROL OF THE PROCESS! - THAT YOU MUST REMAIN IN CONTROL OF THE PROCESS - IN CONTROL OF EVERY SEGMENT OF THE PROCESS AND MONITOR IT AND MAKE CORRECTIONS AS ERRORS APPEAR IN THE SEGMENTS OF THE PROCESS THAT THE ERRORS ARISE
is anyone here in control of the process?
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Oh save it stinkle teamer. We all know that you would love the control of the process. But you can't have it.
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1st track: (Dancing) "ooo look something shiny"
dancing............ Dancing............. DANCING................ we're a dancing machine
Ah baby
Move it baby
dancing . . . Dancing . . . DANCING . . .
. . . . we're a dancing machine . . . Ah baby
Move it baby
We dance to avoid to evade as we got nothing to provide . . . . Who needs substance - dancing is easier to do then actually most anything else . . . . . .
cause we're dancing............ Dancing............. DANCING................ we're a dancing machine . . . . . . ooo LOOK something shiny . . . . .
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2nd track: (When one has nothing)
We throw specious aspersions as we have nothing else to say.
10th track: (Tossing Shit)
As We have nothing to back-up our stated positions (opt-out fiction) - We will do our best to throw it back on ( put a lie on) any who would ask for details of our non-existent action plans (Ya know......those who put the lie to our bullshit - "who shine the light on our bullshit").
The putdown we use on others is simple - and with it in play - we then retreat - to our constant tactic of providing nothing while saying much (politi-speak).
Tossing shit - we love it.
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12th track: (Hiding in plain sight) "Also known as trying to hide in the light"
We get really strident with this - when we feel we need to reapply shredded cover
All it requires - is - enough expressed vitriol for the system in general - and many will believe you mean it - while one need not provide any supporting substance.
(part 2)
When the 1st part is not enough we also love to pretend to support protest and things (whatever is handy) - helps to throw off suspicion.
The modus operandi that you deploy reminds me of some of the many methods that the neocons used, and hence...why we are here....
Ready to start tearing into that GOP ? I mean you know "the" home of the neocons.
A Fraternity of Failure: Paul Krugman On How Neocon Ideology Rewards Being Wrong Krugman argues, quite convincingly, that Bush's inability to articulate a coherent position on Iraq - or the economy - is due to the fact that the GOP establishment, still held captive by the neoconservative ... Iraq war was …
Funny though neocon fits you.
10th track: (Tossing Shit)
As We have nothing to back-up our stated positions (opt-out fiction) - We will do our best to throw it back on ( put a lie on) any who would ask for details of our non-existent action plans (Ya know......those who put the lie to our bullshit - "who shine the light on our bullshit").
The putdown we use on others is simple - and with it in play - we then retreat - to our constant tactic of providing nothing while saying much (politi-speak).
Tossing shit - we love it.
Which process?
the process you describe in your paragraph above mine, the process you stated in all caps
No The People Are Not Currently In Control Of The Process Of Government.
The few Very Wealthy people and corp(se)oRATions (faux people) are very nearly in total control of the process.
All of us with Occupy want to change that fact but we aren't getting closer for some reason. What method do you believe we should try next?
Achieving unity and voting out of office the very active evil (state and federal) - that means making a start - not only identifying that evil but also forwarding replacements that are for the people the constitution the environment for equality for all.
Supporting initiatives like the 50 state Move To Amend movement.
Protest is good - but it can't be empty - issues that the people need to support and oppose need to be forefront of the protests. People who are working against us must be identified to the public and their voting records made accessible to the public for verification (it is not what someone says that counts - it is what they do). The people must be made aware of alternatives to vote for - this has got to be part of the protest process. If the minorities ever got united in Baltimore (just an example - one example) they could own the ballot box - and so own the electoral process - and so elect people who are one of them and are not of the overlord sector of WASP/bigoted/clan origin. This is where it starts = in the states - owning local government and having control over those sent to the federal government from the states.
I do not see how else the job gets done.
One of Occupy's stated goals has always been the establishment of Direct Participatory Democracy.
I agree that identifying evil is the first step, then forwarding replacements. The replacements shouldn't be to first identify certain people or groups, to fight evil we must use Love. Together using democracy, people identify with fairness and those few, simple, issues should be where we choose to agree. First, stop evil. Next, establish justice. At this point Love should dominate our policies that allow life to continue as our daily struggle, but evolving at the same time so progress can continue. Evil will return if justice is not established and applies to every person without exception..
And - so - as six sigma states - the process must be owned - not part of the process - but - the whole process - and not by a very few people - but by all of the people. The foundation and framework are already in place - it just takes the people to stand up and take charge. Part of that is the people need to be responsible to the issues and not devoted to a party. The people need to look at government and see who is supporting them and who is working against them. The ones working against them need to be removed from office and the ones that support them need to be brought on board to solidly present the peoples issues. While this is going on the people need to bring forward the issues and present their stance on them and have the representatives that support them support their stance on the issue and work with the other representatives of the people to pull together in solid support. That is how government is supposed to work = by of and for the people.
we all work for money
some have so much money that they determine what people will do to get it
the market economy is a sham when sources have a significantly larger reserve of money in comparison to those that must work for them
i heard someone crashed a car worth $300,000
I won't see that much money over 20 years
It seems clear to me though that the process has been taken over and is being used by evil people. Evil people intent on deceiving as many as possible while consolidating control. Revolutionary, radical, action needs to take place by the using democracy! I don't see any other power left to try, voting together is our only hope. Forget who the candidates are until we create our interview questions, then interview those who are aware of what we expect and insist upon.
http://www.magpictures.com/thequeenofversailles/
I wasn't once a modest income individual...I still am and yet I still managed to maintain my moral compass...one that tells me I will never deserve the right to be a total dick...no matter what I accumulate, lose, or have worked for. I will never stick my dick in the face of another human and demand they respect and come to terms with the deranged perspective that gives me the gall to ever think I have earned the right to do this and demand than another endure it. ?...
And when sane people cross the paths of these types we must never ever allow ourselves to cross the threshold of their reality...we must never ever pretend we see the emporers clothing...it is our duty to call the insanity into the open, to point it out and to shame them...or we may be accused in our dereliction and failure to be humans capable of discerning decency, humanity, and compassion for our fellow beings....whatever ends are at stake...employment, finances, family, and whatever must be risked.. we must...because to go along with it is to endorse it, to give it credence, to warp our very moral fabric to fit their monsterous lunacy.
Add to that wasted shells of flesh...I had to stop watching the film because I felt sick knowing our society allows/ enables this entitlement and greed to exist.
If enough people had your courage and spirit, we would have enough leaders to win this revolution. Never, ever pretend we see the emporers clothing, point it out and call it out!
It doesn't take courage to point out injustice...it does however take strenght and stamina to resist it and to resist being part of it. We all need to eat...but we have to start evaluating what we will do to feed ourselves. How far do I put myself first and at what cost? These are the questions society is forgetting to ask nowadays. Propaganda is preaching the me first survival of fittest mantra...and can't you just feel it lately...the masses seem to be swallowing it. Every man for himself...parking spaces, spot in line, limited resource ...let the door slam behind us shift? We have to recognize it and prevent this because ultimately we aren't going to want to live in that kind of world...and it isn't a world I would want for my kids either if I had them. Every now and then I see humanity find their spirit of generosity again...it is still there stronger than the constructed greed the one percent is pushing...people want to do good. But as the climate and culture offers more and more justification not too...and more and more people adopt it..I see a bad moon on the rise.
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[EDIT] If 2/3rd's of the public didn't opt out - then TPTB could not own the elections by their spending alone.
EDIT-> Further: If nearly half of the voting public didn't vote for those who are solidly against them - the 2/3rds who have opted out wouldn't be needed to keep the money choices out of office.
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Sorry for being negative. I see both happening at the same time. More control from the top, and more awakening from the bottom. I will choose to be positive as I continue to hope that Love finally wins over evil.
12th track: (Hiding in plain sight) "Also known as trying to hide in the light"
We get really strident with this - when we feel we need to reapply shredded cover
All it requires - is - enough expressed vitriol for the system in general - and many will believe you mean it - while one need not provide any supporting substance.
(part 2)
When the 1st part is not enough we also love to pretend to support protest and things (whatever is handy) - helps to throw off suspicion.
So. Is that how they are helping to finance it all now?
You've heard about us - you have probably hated us - now you can get the movie and help finance us.
Wouldn't surprise me ...but I think the filmakers sought to expose them...they didn't have to try too hard as the subjects lack awareness that others would view this not with envy but disgust. They may be unintentional dicks...but in my book a dick is a dick. Ignorance is no excuse though I suspect they may know and hold no shame.
Also if a multi- millionaire confesses on camera to doing something illegal monetarily to help elect a president ..is that not worthy of an investigation or oversight?
I don't know what the nannies story is - so I don't know what to say about her situation. All I do know is what little I remember about those two from when they were all over the news "shows".
The nanny was shown to draw the gross disparity/ gap between the two worlds...she was trying to take care of her kids back in the her homeland mired in poverty...to give them a leg up...but also in my mind it did bring in the question of the association and sacrifices to do that. What associations are justified to give ourselves and family a way up...it was interesting. Because in no way could you not feel compassion for this nanny...nor that she was guilty of taking their money at least as far as I watched...but it points to a much larger societal problem because we are all sort of forced to partake in this dirty/ tainted monopoly game and to affiliate and rely on greedy dirty people to get by.
Their life choices were (are) pretty sick - but the film makers no doubt made money off of it and had a financial agreement with those two seriously messed up narcissists. No doubt they get some money off of the residuals as well.
Which brings in a very good question...guilt by association? One we all face when we choose our own associations...jobs, purcgases of goods...401ks...stocks...dealings ...etc. and the list could be long. Even the poor nanny here in this film? At what point does meeting our ends justify the dirty tainted money we take and make to survive?
I think we have plenty of questions to be asked - plenty of public issues to be forwarded - and I think we could approach them as something that a candidate signs on to - though as a binding legal contract. That should get the ball rolling.
So - Yes:
Revolutionary - adjective
of, pertaining to, characterized by, or of the nature of a revolution, or a sudden, complete, or marked change
Revolution - noun
a sudden, complete or marked change in something
Radical - adjective
of or going to the root or origin; fundamental: a radical difference
Action - noun 1. the process or state of acting or of being active: The machine is not in action now. 2. something done or performed; act; deed.
The system has not been completely taken over - or - we would not be having this conversation.
The corrupt process is sophisticated enough to allow this conversation. Candidates would interview very simple issues that will not divide us, otherwise the revolution fails. Once the process is altered to allow complete accountability, even elect alternates to replace a representative that takes actions against the people's wishes. The Bill of Rights would become more understood as would the problem with democracy which is Tyranny of the Majority.
Tyranny of the majority - hmmmmm - could that be worse than the tyranny of the very few over the vast majority of the population - that we now have?
When all of the people have a say - doesn't that defeat tyranny?
Tyranny of the majority - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The phrase "tyranny of the majority" (or "tyranny of the masses"), used in discussing systems of democracy and majority rule, involves the scenario in which decisions ...
I mean - is this not where personal freedoms are given the utmost consideration and support/defense?
For instance - should marijuana be legal?
Is'nt that a personal choice issue and right?
Shouldn't marijuana be made legal for all uses and in the recreational category - shouldn't it be regulated similarly as alcohol or tobacco?
The people have got to defend personal rights for all or they disappear - except perhaps for a entitled few - and NO we do not want to continue the program that some people are above the law or are so very extra special than the rest of us.
Where personal rights disappear - is where those rights infringe upon the freedoms rights safety and well being of others. Right? Such as strip mining. Someone is making money off of that - but in doing it they are not taking care of the surrounding environment and are polluting the air land and water for miles around - poisoning wild life as well as human life in surrounding areas. That is a personal right of business that should not exist or be allowed. But now the TPP would have it be the other way around and the surrounding area should have no right to get in the way of profits/business.
Tyranny of any kind is bad. The tyranny of the few that now exists was not conceived with the advent of democracy. Tyranny of the majority can occur with democracy and have terrible results, thus the Bill of Rights, etc.
And that is why the people - all of the people must get involved and stay involved - right now we are living in tyranny and we need not be - if we were to stand together and end it. That is where protecting to the best of our ability everyone's personal rights and freedoms as being absolutely equal.
The restraint for any activity (right freedom) would come from how it could/would affect others.
Civilization must have protections for civilization - so that everyone has the same opportunity at (access to) a healthy peaceful and prosperous life.
ultimately, people decide what they will do
no law can change their will
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If the people who believed in the tenants of their chosen party actually made their representatives support those tenants - what need would we have for a third party?
The whole issue comes down to the people owning the system and it does not matter how many parties there are. What matters is owning the process and making corrections where it has gone wrong. Six Sigma I believe was posted on the subject.
Can the people own the system now or has it been corrupted to a point that requires a revolution to alter the process? It appears to many of us that the system will not be allowed to be owned by the people.
Revolution does not necessarily mean what most people take it to mean - as in it is not necessarily armed revolt - it can also be revolt at the poles to elect the peoples choice and not the machines offering - or other actions as well
Armed revolt is out, voting is in but the media and the control of the political process creates divisions and unfortunately apathy. Voting Together is our only hope.
acting together is what must be done/ or not done
or actions dictate our lives not voting
Agreed, acting together, and our actions dictate our lives. Voting is an action, and actions dictate our lives. Voting could be the most dictating action taken in our lives.
voting is not action
at best, voting decide what we will do
but I already decide what I will do
Agreed - and the internet word of mouth as well as the regular word of mouth is our best tool to get past the MSM roadblock right now - but also - anyone can buy commercial time - and that might be a consideration as the peoples strength in unity grows.
tpp sounds like a justification for war on countries that don't follow their "contract"
healthcare should be open to the people
this is not a workers fort the man only world system
if i people do not comply about international ownership of the land they live on
that is not a reason to bomb them
isn't the Tpp the excuse we use to abuse countries caught in an abusive contract
legal or not ttp can';t make abuse right
From what anyone has been able to see of the text of TPP.
TPP is set on the course of handing over suzerainty to the corp(se)oRATions. To bypass laws that protect workers that protect the environment that protect access to health care - by making everything subject to the corp(se)oRATion - if it hinders the Corp(se)oRATion in any way in how it operates and so limitis that corp(se)oRATion's profits - they can sue for those lost profits the country that is denying them their profits and it all takes place in a World corp(se)oRAT Kangaroo Court - where the corp(se)oRATions decide what is to be done.
So yeah - the TPP would be making abuse of the environment and of living people legal and legally unassailable.
Agree social media will be very significant, i think the key will be to limit the issues and prioritizing them for the purpose of using democracy. All we need is to get the most votes! Getting the most votes must take absolute preference, period! How do we focus on the priorities we mostly agree on without muzzling those who consider a minor issue to be a major one, therefore dividing us.
Passage of TPP and fast tracking it will make many laws and regulations for controlling business and protecting our environment as well as our personal rights MOOT. So that would be currently My top priority. And in educating the public of why this trade deal should be defeated is in the fact of how it will affect everyone's rights/lives. How the TPP would make the EPA irrelevant and the same with the FDA and would make labor law irrelevant and and and
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But nowhere in six sigma - does it ever state that you divorce yourself from the process - *NO IT STATES FIRMLY THAT YOU ALWAYS ARE IN CONTROL OF THE PROCESS! - THAT YOU MUST REMAIN IN CONTROL OF THE PROCESS - IN CONTROL OF EVERY SEGMENT OF THE PROCESS AND MONITOR IT AND MAKE CORRECTIONS AS ERRORS APPEAR IN THE SEGMENTS OF THE PROCESS THAT THE ERRORS ARISE
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10th track: (Tossing Shit)
As We have nothing to back-up our stated positions (opt-out fiction) - We will do our best to throw it back on ( put a lie on) any who would ask for details of our non-existent action plans (Ya know......those who put the lie - "to shine the light" - on our bullshit).
The putdown we use on others is simple - and with it in play - we then retreat - to our constant tactic of providing nothing while saying much (politi-speak).
Tossing shit - we love it.