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Forum Post: Some thoughts from #S17 because ... ''No one ever said the battle for the rights of The 99% was gonna be easy'' !!!

Posted 11 months ago on Sept. 14, 2013, 8:53 a.m. EST by shadz66 (19985)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

No one ever said the battle for the rights of the 99% was gonna be easy.

We live in corporate tyranny. It's a new type of tyranny, 21st-century style.

How do the American people sit by and snooze while this is going on? Are they really that brainwashed ?

The forum is a place to lay down information. Keep up the good work and never give up. Forget about the b.s. that goes on here and use this place for what it is, one of the main faces of Occupy on the internet.

And, don't forget that Occupy has changed the conversation in this country in a profound way, and that is why this forum is constantly under attack.

We are all for the 99%, no? We're all for the banksters going to jail, for wages to increase, for healthcare to be universal, for the spying crap to end, for the drones to end, for Glass Steagall to be reinstated, for workers' rights to be enforced, for equality for all, to end poverty, to end the foreclosures, to end disenfranchisement, to end corruption, etc etc.?

We are all in this fight together. We can come at it from different angles but in the end we all want the same things and to get those things, we're going to find that we need something new altogether. We need an economic system and a society that fits into the new global and information age that we live in.

There are plenty of people fighting for the status quo. But, there are millions more who need deeper change. Revolutions and even just change, watershed change, can take several decades. We've been planting the seeds here and those who want the status quo really don't like that. They know that seeds grow.

Challenge libertarians to this : Ask your fearless leaders, Lew Rockwell, the Pauls, the Kochs, those at the Cato Institute and Heritage Foundation, etc., this question :

  • "If you want to have a truly libertarian economic society, would you be willing to level out all of the wealth in America before doing so as this would be the only fair way to institute that economic system with everyone on a level playing field ?"

The answer would be a resounding no, of course, because the leaders of libertarianism, the ones who really would benefit from a society with zero regulations on a free-wheeling capitalist society are the ones who already own the capital !

These people are not stupid. They know damn well that they will start out the race ahead of the masses because they have the capital and they will wipe the masses up off the floor. So, what do they do ? They pull regular people in with sexy stuff like : "You will be free to have as many guns as you want." ; "You can smoke pot and do drugs if you want." ; "You won't have to send your kids to school if you don't want to." etc. etc. And, regular people buy into this social crap that they spew. They buy into it because they feel so oppressed in the first place working at jobs that pay barely enough to survive that any kind of liberty sounds freaking great.

But, what the regular people don't get is that that is just a way to pull them in, what true libertarians are really after is control of the economy. They want to own every single one of us. And, in a free-wheeling unregulated capitalist economy, that is exactly what we will have. Most of the regular people following that ideology just don't get this. And, it is very important that we educate people to understand how deleterious an unregulated capitalist system would be.

Creating self-sustaining livelihoods is one answer to overcoming the tyranny under which we find ourselves. An egalitarian society in which people can live without fear would be very efficient. There is always enough to go around, but when it is spread out unevenly it leaves surplus with some and sparsity with others which causes all sorts of ills.

  • Keep in mind, no where in the Constitution does it say we must have a capitalist economic system.

Extraction of profit through exploitation is the basis of capitalism. Once you take that away, then you don't have capitalism.

Man is not naturally selfish. Man is conditioned to be selfish or shamed, but he is not naturally so. In fact, we should argue the opposite. Look to hunter gatherers and other indigenous groups. They share. They know there is enough to go around and they know others will share with them. They don't live in constant fear that they will not have enough. Their existence on this good earth is not a mere material acquisition.

What new system should we replace capitalism with ? That is the perplexing question because the world is not like it ever has been in the past so what will likely happen is that over time, the current system will undo itself and develop into something new that fits the times and something likely that we have not seen before. It will be a sharing economy based on love and not fear, enjoyment and not acquisition.

It isn't that anyone is weak. The poor are not to blame for being poor. The unemployed are not to blame for being unemployed. It is the foundation of capitalism to exploit. The capitalist exploits in order to make a profit. So, someone is exploited, right ? or capitalism falls apart.

The "reserve army of labor" required by capitalism wants unemployment because unemployment keeps wages down. The only weak ones here are the exploiters, the capitalists, whose greed has overtaken their capacity to love. All we need to do is rid ourselves of an economic system that purposefully only works for a few people. Down with capitalism ! And, let's find an economic system that works for all people.

With the exception of the excellent and highly recommended links immediately above, this post and these thoughts for #S17 and for a more beautiful world for all going forward, were wholly quoted and minimally edited from comments from a long term poster and deep supporter of OWS, whose words and thoughts we'll all know but could do with reflecting upon more.

veritas vos liberabit ....

208 Comments

208 Comments


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[-] 6 points by Nevada1 (4529) 11 months ago

Incorporation, has Cursed The World.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

'Citizens United' was an act of treason and the final enabling of a slow motion 'coup d'etat so, yes - ''Incorporation has cursed the world'' and in The U$A in particular. Also, perhaps further consider :

ad iudicium ...

[-] 6 points by Nevada1 (4529) 11 months ago

Exactly, "Citizens United was an act of treason"

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

''Citizens United ... Against Secret Corporate Campaign Cash'', by Isaiah J. Poole :

and also remembering what was said when 'CU' was passed by the SCOTUS and when natural born US citizens had their ''inalienable rights'' usurped : ''Outrageous SCOTUS Decision Should Reignite Most Necessary of Debates'', by Ralph Nader (January 21, 2010) :

''Today’s decision by the U.S. Supreme Court in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission shreds the fabric of our already weakened democracy by allowing corporations to more completely dominate our corrupted electoral process. It is outrageous that corporations already attempt to influence or bribe our political candidates through their political action committees (PACs), which solicit employees and shareholders for donations. With this decision, corporations can now also draw on their corporate treasuries and pour vast amounts of corporate money, through independent expenditures, into the electoral swamp already flooded with corporate campaign PAC contribution dollars.

''This corporatist, anti-voter decision is so extreme that it should galvanize a grassroots effort to enact a Constitutional Amendment to once and for all end corporate personhood and curtail the corrosive impact of big money on politics. It is indeed time for a Constitutional amendment to prevent corporate campaign contributions from commercializing our elections and drowning out the civic and political voices and values of citizens and voters. It is way overdue to overthrow “King Corporation” and restore the sovereignty of 'We the People'!'' Also fyi :

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

TRUTH - Frankenstein's Monster in a so much worse iteration.

[-] 2 points by Nevada1 (4529) 11 months ago

Well Said.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

Thx I thought it appropriate considering the nature of corp(se)oRATions = the undead that have been given the rights of real living people.

[-] 3 points by Nevada1 (4529) 11 months ago

Yes. Those abominations that use incorporation as a weapon, while staying safely buried.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

Conducting Major Criminal Activities ( Board & Executives ) and claiming they are not responsible - the monster did it - not us - the monster.

[-] 2 points by Nevada1 (4529) 11 months ago

The Monster Ate My Homework

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

And they are allowed to continue this blatant FICTION.

[-] 3 points by Nevada1 (4529) 11 months ago

Getting Worse By The Day

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

Getting Worse By The Day

At times it seems more like by the hour. And that's just the stuff we see on MSM ( well mostly ) - they are not even trying to be the least little bit subtle.

[-] 3 points by Nevada1 (4529) 11 months ago

The Quickening, To Their Grand Plan

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

I think the faster they rush towards finalizing their grand plan - the more likely that they will trigger a violent response. I hate to say it - but - violence may become necessary - prior to getting sane control happening.

[-] 3 points by Nevada1 (4529) 11 months ago

Unfortunately, You are correct. They are making it this way. They do not get it----Reign Of Terror----It happened

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

And not one stinking little bit of it is at all necessary.

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (20522) 10 months ago

Cops infiltrating OWS to aid in its demise: "Cop Charged in SUV Assault Worked Undercover for Occupy Wall Street, Sources Say"

http://abcnews.go.com/US/cop-charged-suv-assault-worked-undercover-occupy-wall/story?id=20539148

I'm not shocked by this, but I like that this is out.

[-] 1 points by HCHC4 (-28) 10 months ago

haha, another one exposed.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20522) 10 months ago

I wonder how many there were. I guess we'll never know.

[-] 2 points by HCHC4 (-28) 10 months ago

At least a few per. I saw someone about a year ago, used to show up a lot. Guess what he was up to... ? Currently in the police academy! I said "wow, thats quite the turn of events".. and then kinda just looked at him, and we both understood what the deal was.

Who knows how many others there were. There, online, all over. Prob not too much anymore, now thats its been dampened. But the key to the massive explosion was social media, so Im sure that is being watched and manipulated.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=db6_1379553396

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20522) 10 months ago

Oh, there's definitely been some here over the past two years for sure.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 months ago

''Looking at the history of capitalism, it is difficult not to conclude that growing inequality expresses a fundamental property of and not a contradiction within capitalism. Inequality is built into capitalism. If there is a contradiction here it is a material not a logical one. In other words, it is the contradiction between an economic system that is radically indifferent to the health and well-being of the planet as a whole versus the economic, moral and environmental obligation to preserve and sustain such health and well-being.

''Over time, the promotion of selfishness as a virtue not only changes the way we look at ourselves, it influences the way we relate to each other and to the planet itself. Instead of citizens who define themselves in relation to common goods, we are reduced, under the selfish orientation of capitalism, to aggregates of self-interested atomistic individuals encouraged to believe that we can continue a lifetime of limitless consumption.

''Above all, the possibility of alternative economic visions, perspectives and practices have to be grounded in the reality that we share a limited world, and that we are and have always been capable of creating an economic system and public policies that preserve the health and well-being of the planet and all of the creatures that inhabit it.''

~

Excerpted and abridged from this excellent and highly recommended article :

I can not recommend this forward thinking but historically referenced article enough.Talk of Piketty's ''Capital In The Twenty First Century''' has been all the rage but seldom is it pointed out that Piketty basically stops himself taking (in the book) the next logical next steps on from his excellent thesis.

This article starts to say what Piketty doesn't ; couldn't or wouldn't. Solidarity to you and yours bw.

at spes non fracta ...

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[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20522) 11 months ago

"The Revolution is Love." It's surely not a revolution for the status quo.

This 5 minute video still says it all for me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRtc-k6dhgs

Thanks, Shadz. :) <3

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

''Man is, at one and the same time, a solitary being and a social being. As a solitary being, he attempts to protect his own existence and that of those who are closest to him, to satisfy his personal desires, and to develop his innate abilities. As a social being, he seeks to gain the recognition and affection of his fellow human beings, to share in their pleasures, to comfort them in their sorrows, and to improve their conditions of life. Only the existence of these varied, frequently conflicting, strivings accounts for the special character of a man, and their specific combination determines the extent to which an individual can achieve an inner equilibrium and can contribute to the well-being of society. It is quite possible that the relative strength of these two drives is, in the main, fixed by inheritance. But the personality that finally emerges is largely formed by the environment in which a man happens to find himself during his development, by the structure of the society in which he grows up, by the tradition of that society, and by its appraisal of particular types of behavior. The abstract concept “society” means to the individual human being the sum total of his direct and indirect relations to his contemporaries and to all the people of earlier generations. The individual is able to think, feel, strive, and work by himself; but he depends so much upon society—in his physical, intellectual, and emotional existence—that it is impossible to think of him, or to understand him, outside the framework of society. It is “society” which provides man with food, clothing, a home, the tools of work, language, the forms of thought, and most of the content of thought; his life is made possible through the labor and the accomplishments of the many millions past and present who are all hidden behind the small word “society.” (Albert Einstein) from :

''Man'' also needs to acknowledge, accept and accede that 'woman' has critically important aspects, qualities and virtues too, without which 'mankind' like a car with different sized wheels on either side - keeps going in circles. Our awareness of nature, nurture and love, mercy and compassion must see us through towards a better future for all & thanx for the video as it ''says it all'. One Struggle ; One World ; One <3 & Solidarity for a bw for all.

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20522) 11 months ago

Solidarity with people everywhere who strive to be the best people they can be while also caring for everyone else on this blessed earth.

One Struggle; One World; One People; One Love, today and always.

And, thanks for the amazing Einstein excerpt. No one could say it better.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Solidarity @ citizens and workers everywhere on this beautiful world, our wonderful, fragile shared home and may we all reclaim our nations from the Banking Corporations before it is too late. Also please see :

fiat lux et justitia ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20522) 11 months ago

"The unofficial history of America, which continues to be written, is not a story of rugged individualism and heroic personal sacrifice in the pursuit of a dream. It is a story of democracy derailed, of a revolutionary spirit suppressed, and of a once-proud people reduced to servitude."

Thanks, Kalle Lasn, one of the founders of Occupy Wall Street.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

''Artists, like rebels, are dangerous. They speak a truth that totalitarian systems do not want spoken. “Red Rosa now has vanished too. …” Bertolt Brecht wrote after Luxemburg was murdered. “She told the poor what life is about, And so the rich have rubbed her out.” Without artists such as musician Ry Cooder and playwrights Howard Brenton and Tarell Alvin McCraney we will not succeed. If we are to face what lies ahead, we will not only have to organize and feed ourselves, we will have to begin to feel deeply, to face unpleasant truths, to recover empathy and to live passionately. Then we can fight.'' from :

per ardua ad astra ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20522) 11 months ago

So true. We need more Banksy's!

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

:-) & ''People Across America Are Waking Up to the Effects of 'Disaster Capitalism' -- a Much Better Way of Life Is Possible'', by Kevin Zeese & Margaret Flowers :

''People are seeing that the Democratic Party is behind the neo-liberal economic agenda. Democrats are joining the GOP to privatize and log national forests and cut education funding. And the husband of Senator Feinstein is selling our commons, in this case publicly-owned Post Office buildings, to his friends cheap in order to line his family’s pockets with our commonwealth.

''On the bright side, as people speak-up, mobilize and take action not only is there a growing movement but the power structure is being divided. Divisions are occurring in the Democratic Party where some are being pulled away from Obama’s pro-Wall Street, market-based policies that undermine the social infrastructure.''

veritas vos liberabit ...

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 months ago

I've been following Banksy's work for many years since I first came to hear about it whilst living in London over a decade ago. I have an excellent book of his early works. He's subtly but still clearly political (in the truest sense of that word, ie. nothing to do with 'Parties'!) but is very aware of being 'recuperated back into The Spectacle' {to use a 'Situationist' term}. Thanx for your NYC based link.

Sort of sadly too, he's now so collectable and 'valued' that his work is now 'commodified' outside the reach of most people but he is still authentic because he has done his level best to steer clear of the 'marketing process' such that he still produces 'art' - as opposed to 'product', imo. Here is a link to the American writer / photographer, Linh Dinh, who I really rate who & who works in a similar 'urban' mileau :

As a final funny footnote from your link, I really liked Banksy's ''I have a theory that any short sentence seems profound by writing the name of a dead philosopher next to it'' (Plato), lolol. Nice One Banksy !!

ars longa, vita brevis ...

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (20522) 10 months ago

Political in the truest sense of the word, as in "politic," defined as "Using or marked by prudence, expedience, and shrewdness; artful" and "Using, displaying, or proceeding from policy; judicious: a politic decision." Being political does not de facto mean participation in a government or political parties.

The polis or the Greek city-state comes to mind as well. The Greek word, polis, meaning literally "city" and the word citizenship developing from there. And, Banksy's quote reminds me of Plato's idea of the Republic where in it's best form it is led by a philosopher king who serves the common good.

And, at least the commodification of Banksy's works are largely limited to photographs and videos.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 months ago

'Politics' is first and foremost derived from ''polis'' & like you infer, refers to the matters pertaining of and to ''the city'' & how we, as humans, all interact and negotiate the societal dynamics of living together. In the U$A (and to to be fair almost everywhere too) where money has so corrupted that process, 'citizens' {remember that concept ?!} chaff against 'the agon' of The Corporation, which has been granted the legal status by successive SCOTUS decisions - of a natural born, human, person ! Excuse the tautology but I have used it for effect here !! Now 'Corporations' are NOT people and 'Money' is NOT speech and anyone who says so is a ... Bought And Paid For - Treasonous, Fascist, Corporate, Lickspittle !!!

I can feel myself getting cross now bw, so ducking out of this comment with a 99%-pertinent link now :

Re. Banksy, very good connection to 'the polis' and I'll find my book and pass you the ISBN in future. Also from David Byrne ('Talking Heads') & titled ''The 1% are stifling New York's artistic genius'' in my hard copy 'Guardian' paper on Tuesday, 8th October and now rather pertinent here, I am appending fyi :

ars gratia artis ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20522) 10 months ago

You said it all better than I ever could. Amen, Shadz.

And, "In 1983 the poorest 47% of America owned about 2.5 percent of the nation's wealth, an average of $15,000 per family.

In 2009 the poorest 47% of America owned ZERO percent of the nation's wealth (their debt exceeded their assets)."

That statistic from the ICH piece says it all.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 months ago

''The Republican-Tea Party alliance operates a weapon of mass deflection, protecting capitalism from criticism. Sadly, the Democrats neither expose nor attack the Republican project.

''Many endorse it, while others - the party's center and left - mollify the victims of crisis with promises, some palliatives and much pretense. While agreeing with Republicans that saving capitalism is the task at hand, Democrats will make it slightly less profitable for business and the rich and so slightly less painful for the 99%. For securing capitalism, the parties have evolved an effective division of labor - for now.

''The diffuse Tea Party survives, like other too-quickly dismissed movements with tactics that seem "bizarre," because it serves key functions (and thus secures key funding) in today's society.''

To follow your arresting Glen Ford quote above and excerpted but with my paragraphs for emphasis, from the following salutary piece by Prof. R.D. Wolff :

Re. further 'on the record' links as to 'Why & How' we OWS :

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (20522) 10 months ago

Occupy Wall Street! It's still the number one thing we should be doing.

If either the Republicans OR the Democrats would put the people first things would change and the system would be rigged to benefit the PEOPLE and not the banks and Wall Street and the wealthy and the corporations.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20522) 10 months ago

@HCHC below. Right on. You got that right. We live in a society run by corporations.

[-] 1 points by HCHC4 (-28) 10 months ago

The Republicans get power, they remove regulations for the multinationals.

The Democrats get power, the increase regulations on everyone BUT the multinationals.

Either way, guess who wins?

And further down the toilet we go....

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 months ago

Harrowing stats indeed and just how did we get to this sorry juncture ?

''The Lords of Capital (the “markets”) are pure gamblers who have transformed the global financial marketplace into a machinery of perpetual uncertainty, in which all the wealth of the world is bet many times over by people who don’t actually own it, in a casino whose operators scheme against each other as well as their patrons, most of whom are not even aware that they are in the game – much less, that it is Russian roulette.'' Also further fyi bw :

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20522) 10 months ago

"The casino has swallowed the system. The sums the players are betting are not only far larger than the value of the rest of their portfolios, but six times larger than the combined assets of every human institution and family on Earth, and almost 17 times bigger than the worth of humankind’s yearly output. Even if the whole planet were offered as collateral, it could not cover Wall Street’s bets."

Oh yeah, that's why we're here, to Occupy Wall Street !!

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (1495) from Waterville, NY 11 months ago

One of the very many things that needs to be done is Art must be Returned To The People.Sadly,I have had very little success at convincing other artists of the fact that the mass of People feels abandoned and ignored by artists.They feel about art the way the 1% WANTS them to feel-confused and snubbed.Several years ago,I decided to try to remedy the situation by creating small paintings of recognizable everyday images-vegetables,flowers,trees,angels,devils,keys,candles,cups of coffee,&c,and hanging them up in the streets.People could then see the artwork,and if any picture so moved them,and they had a phillips-head screwdriver,they could climb up on the telephone pole and take the painting down-for themselves-for free.Needless to say,this revolutionary act caused a sensation,but no other artists joined me,as I thought they would.They prefer to sell their art on The Internets.I haven't been doing this lately because I am currently attempting to complete at least 200 paintings to be given away on 11/5/13 on the corner of Broad and Wall.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20522) 11 months ago

Real, true art is not a commodity. One of the saddest things to happen is the commoditization of art. Art is now an "investment" and how much the art is "worth" is now more important than the art itself. This financialization of yet another aspect of our lives (art is now considered an "asset" that you can even loan against) has sucked more of the soul right out of our society.

Kudos to you trashyharry for holding on to what is truly important. I wish you the best of luck in awakening the souls on Broad and Wall Street in November. :)

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (1495) from Waterville, NY 11 months ago

Thanks Beautiful-but such art as I am able to offer to the public is exhibited generally for free,in the streets-and I do everything possible to remain anonymous.I am not quite in the game for kudos or money.In the case of artists,these things do more harm than good.As for any souls I may encounter on 11/5/13-most of them will be there as witnesses to history-my part in the proceedings will surely not be much remarked nor long remembered-probably.I simply intend to adjust the image slightly.Nevertheless,your kind words are a clue to your affectionate nature which is well esteemed in this forum.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20522) 11 months ago

Workers and citizens in this dear country of mine face a concerted effort to keep them as wage slaves. Today, on the big "left wing" show "Morning Joe" they actually discussed how throwing out the minimum wage altogether might be a viable answer and how a living wage would crush business. Joe actually caved in and said well, maybe WalMart could pay a living wage, but certainly not Burger King or McDonald's, he said. Oh, it would be too hard for them.

The problem here is propaganda and a lack of understanding of economics. Saying basically "Let them eat cake" is quite evil. It is nothing short of that.

Here is the reality: Creating a living wage for ALL workers is simply a way to spread out the resources that this nation has. Yes, it is income redistribution. But, what happens is great. What happens is the money goes back into the economic system. When the little people have some money, they spend it. They don't take it overseas and stick it in some secret bank and avoid taxes. No. They pay taxes on it and they spend it here.

So, this is just pure b.s. that a living wage would hurt employment and the economy. It would bolster it. It's just that the greedy mother f-ckers don't want to share. They want to hoard the profits. AND, AND, they have the bully pulpits. So, they sit there and spew this s--t for everyone to hear, to keep the masses down. It's a travesty. It's shameful. I'm embarrassed for my country.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

The Prophets of Profit only want to share : cost, loss, risk and expense with us and any and all benefit, opportunity and profit they want to extract and keep while conning Americans that they are 'free' and to this effect, the Wholly Corporate Controlled MSM has plied Americans with the very sad and totally self defeating twaddle of the 'rugged individual who is a temporarily embarrassed millionaire' for far too long.

A Living Minimum Wage ; Banking Reform ; Banking as Strategic Public Utility ; Universal Healthcare ; Good Pensions ; Sound Public Education ; Students Free Of Debt Bondage as they start their working lives - these and other things should be the 'no brainer' opportunities for The US 99%, if only they could somehow override their cradle to grave, 'Turkeys Voting For Thanksgiving' - socio-cultural programming.

It can be done. Y'all can gently land an exploratory probe on a distant planet and scoop the tail of a comet & bring it back to earth for analysis. You Americans are capable of anything - even greatness when you remember that 'together you are stronger' & thanx for your heartfelt comment again here bw.

''The United States is not only the country with the most inequality in outcomes, it’s the country with the least equality of opportunity,” Stiglitz says. “A kid’s life prospects are more dependent on the education and income of his parents than in any other advanced industrial countries.”

For far too long, Americans have allowed Wall Street to play them as 'marks' in a confidence scam of audacious proportions. Then they wonder at their seeming utter powerlessness to deal with job losses, depressed wages, mortgage foreclosures, political corruption and the plight of their children as they graduate into lives of Perpetual Debt Bondage !

OWS has focused national and global attention on the source of the problem. Now it’s time for action to bust the Wall Street banking corporations, cartels and trusts, replace the current Wall Street 'banking system' with a 'Main Street Banking System' and take back America from the rule by The Evil, Venal Wall Street Bankster Plutocratic Parasites !!

Fortunately, with the help of 'OWS' - Americans are slowly waking up to an important truth - that it is an extremely bad idea to yield control of the issuance and allocation of credit (money) to Wall Street banks run by con artists who operate beyond the reach of public accountability and who view the rest of us as simple-minded marks ripe for the exploiting. I hope for 'class conciousness' and the same realisation as Warren Buffet - who concluded & asserted that the only "Class War" was being fought and won - by his class, The 0.01% 'Elite' (= Parasites) !!!

qui tacet consentire ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20522) 11 months ago

As a matter of fact, if Americans had more money in their pockets as a result of a living wage, then more money would pour back into the economy right here at home. The wealthy hide their money overseas to avoid taxes. Small businesses would find a boon if a living wage was implemented to the masses. Hell, people would have money to buy stuff!

And, just because opportunity is allowed, is "legal," doesn't mean it exists. It's like saying you can cross the ocean, but if there is no boat, it's not happening.

Thanks for those great links.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

''The wealthy hide their money overseas to avoid taxes. Small businesses would find a boon if a living wage was implemented to the masses. Hell, people would have money to buy stuff!''

I'm quoting you back above, as these simple seemingly self evident truths need to be repeated in these strange days we all are living in where 'Greed' has gone beyond Gordon Gheko's 'Good'' to become 'God' to some. In complement, I quote Ralph Nader below :

''Jeff Long, vice president of Costco, gives the obvious reasons that the retrograde corporatists ignore : “At Costco, we know good wages are good business. We keep our overhead low while still paying a starting wage of $11 an hour. Our employees are a big reason why our sales per square foot is almost double that of our nearest competitor. Instead of minimizing wages, we know it’s a lot more profitable for the long-term to minimize employee turnover and maximize employee productivity and commitment, product value, customer service and company reputation.”

''A $10 minimum wage will create jobs because sales will increase. Businesses, having lunched off the windfall of a falling real minimum wage since 1968, should be willing to recognize this greater good. The leading scholar refuting the net job loss propaganda is Alan Krueger who now is head of Obama’s Council of Economic Advisers. Certainly the people of Santa Fe, New Mexico are not seeing job losses there where the city minimum wage has been $9.50 per hour.

''The corporate oligarchy has no moral standing whatsoever. Many of the nations’ corporate giants pay no income tax or very little, far less than a cab driver. Last month, Ford Motor Co. paid no federal or state income taxes despite registering nearly $9 billion in profits. It is hard for companies making record profits and paying executives record pay to have much credibility on this subject. Further, small business has received 17 small business tax breaks under Obama.'' from :

It is increasingly clearer and clearer that one set of rules apply to The 1% and the rich and quite another to The 99%. Nothing ever achieved by working people has been merely 'granted' - it has to be fought for.

fiat justitia ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20522) 11 months ago

"A job that pays a living wage isn’t just good for the workers who get to take home a livable paycheck, it’s good for other business owners and the economy as a whole. Businesses need people with a reasonable income to buy their goods. When workers are paid so little that they can barely afford to eat, they can’t spend additional money and as a result, the entire economy suffers. This is economics 101."

"According to Mother Jones, the six Waltons, whose money comes from Walmart, control an estimated $115 billion dollar fortune. In total, that’s more than a staggering 42% of Americans combined.

And where did they get all that money? They took it out of the business instead of paying their workers a living wage."

This kind of extraction of the value of labor should be illegal. Pay a fair portion of the profits to employees or close down!

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

''The six Waltons, whose money comes from Walmart, control an estimated $115 billion dollar fortune. In total, that’s more than a staggering 42% of Americans combined.'' So staggering frankly as to be worth repeating, as is a quote from J.K.Galbraith (1908-2006) :

“The study of money, above all other fields in economics, is one in which complexity is used to disguise truth or to evade truth, not to reveal it. The process by which banks create money is so simple the mind is repelled. With something so important, a deeper mystery seems only decent.”

fiat lux ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20522) 11 months ago

"Household Incomes Remain Flat Despite Improving Economy"

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/18/us/median-income-and-poverty-rate-hold-steady-census-bureau-finds.html?ref=todayspaper

"...the figures reveal that the income of the median American household today, adjusted for inflation, is no higher than it was for the equivalent household in the late 1980s."

And, what's going on on the forum? Can everyone's points be reinstated back to some date in time or something?

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

''Being a poor mother in the United States today means re-using diapers and struggling to afford food. But House Republicans think they have it too easy.'' from :

Appended in compliment of your strong link and from which, I excerpt : '' Here’s a little window into poverty, American- style. According to a Yale University study published in August in Pediatrics magazine, almost 30 percent of low-income women with children in diapers can’t afford an adequate supply of them.

''Don’t believe them when they say the cuts are fiscally necessary. Governments can always find money for the things they want—like increasing subsidies for rich farmers (or bombing Syria). Food stamps are one of the most effective government programs, keeping countless people from outright destitution. This is about ideology—the dismantling of a social compact that goes all the way back to the New Deal, and to the promotion of inequality as a civic virtue.

''Tennessee Tea Party Congressman Stephen Fincher must not have been thinking about his $3.5 million in crop subsidies when he told The New York Times’s Sheryl Gay Stolberg that the Bible says, “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.” Of the 23 million households currently receiving SNAP, three-quarters include children, the disabled or the elderly. What sort of work should they be doing to earn their supper? Forty-one percent of food stamp recipients live in a household where someone has a job—but they don’t earn enough to feed their families. If anyone is freeloading, it’s employers like Walmart who in effect have the taxpayer subsidize their workforce. The Bible-quoting reactionaries conveniently forget that Jesus also said, “The laborer is worthy of his hire.” And he may have said the poor will always be with us, but he didn’t add, “And let’s make sure we keep it that way.”

''America has always had a mean streak where poor people, especially poor people of color are concerned, but at our best it’s been tempered by a sense of collective responsibility and, dare I say it, common sense. Are those days gone? On Fox News earlier this month, New Jersey school therapist and counselor Thomas Kersting spoke in favor of a school policy of denying lunch to low-income children whose parents had neglected to fill out eligibility forms. He thought it was “a little harsh” to throw the food into the garbage in front of the child, but hey, if the kid goes hungry, it’s “a teaching moment.” Kersting goes Dickens’s Mr. Bumble one better: Oliver Twist got in trouble for wanting seconds. Kersting doesn’t think poor children even deserve firsts.

''Diapers, food stamps, even the lowly school lunch. God bless the child who’s got her own.''

From your NYT link : ''For all but the most highly educated and affluent Americans, incomes have stagnated, or worse, for more than a decade. The census report found that median household income, adjusted for inflation, was $51,017 in 2012, down about 9 percent from an inflation-adjusted peak of $56,080 in 1999, mostly as a result of the longest and most damaging recession since the Depression. Most people have had no gains since the economy hit bottom in 2009.

“The good news from today’s 2012 income and poverty results is that for the first year since the Great Recession hit, things aren’t getting worse,” Jared Bernstein of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a former Obama economics official and a contributor to The New York Times’s Economix blog, wrote in his analysis of the numbers. “The bad news is that three years into an economic recovery, they’re not getting better either.” Finally, I append with explanation and antidote in mind :

''At its core, the Occupy movement was a struggle to restore democracy to a society dominated by corporate control. Wealth inequality and the domination of economic, political and social systems by the super rich are unavoidable results of capitalism.

''True democracy is incompatible with capitalism. When communities are able to authentically make their voices heard and wield power to have their fundamental human needs met, a system that relies on one group profiting at the expense of another will be deconstructed. The kind of democracy that is necessary to transform our society requires more than simply electing a representative every four years - it enables all members of society to participate in meaningful decision-making that improves their quality of life.

''By building and strengthening spaces where people can exercise direct democracy to exert control over their communities we can create a counterweight to corporate control and start to rebuild the social fabric with which we can build a movement to change the balance of power in the US.''

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20522) 11 months ago

CEO of Panera bread trying to make it on food stamps and finding it nearly impossible:

http://money.msn.com/now/post--panera-ceo-gets-hungry-on-food-stamps

Empathy and compassion should not require actually experiencing what another person is going through, but sometimes it may be required.

And, "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." Mohatma Gandhi

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

''The cancerous growth of social inequality is the greatest possible indictment of the capitalist system, in which the needs of society are subordinated to the selfish enrichment of a small handful of financial speculators. This system is irrational and incapable of meeting the needs of humanity. It must be done away with and replaced with socialism, based on production for social need, not private profit.'' from :

From which : ''We’re inundated with economic numbers every day, so let’s just consider that one figure for a moment: Seven thousand dollars. Actually, the statistics tell us that the figure for your household is probably even larger than that. The average under-65 household in the United States has lost $7,490 in annual income since the year 2000, according to 2012 census data. That’s $624 per month. $144 per week. $20 per day. That’s a lot of money for most people. And it raises the question: If the average household – if your household – didn’t get that money, who did ?''

As Ron Shaich says, from your very interesting link : "Hunger is not synonymous with unemployed or homeless," he writes. "The inability to put food on the table is not equivalent to lazy."

fiat lux ...

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (20522) 11 months ago

The average American household has lost $624 per month in income since 2000. Wow! That is income, not wealth!

And, where did that money go? To corporate profits, of course.

Financialization of the economic system is the reason for this. The economy is set up for money to be manipulated and exploited by the wealthy, banks, and corporations. Money should be only a means of barter in order for human beings to function and live, but that is just not good enough for the greedy.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20522) 11 months ago

"I'm a 35-Year-Old Veteran On Food Stamps"

This guy is living it and he speaks truth to power in his blog:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jay-kirell/veteran-food-stamps_b_3963203.html

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (14207) 1 minute ago

We've been voting for decades. While that would be my chosen route, I just don't see it working very well as long as the economic system is set up as it is to put profit over people. It corrupts the government.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Well - we have not lost the right to vote yet.

And to this point in time people have not used the vote very wisely or not at all.

The only non-violent way to change the system - is by owning the system.

Otherwise - what else is there?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (14207) 2 minutes ago

That is why we need an overhaul to our political and economic system. There is no getting through to these people. They will not become moral and decent on their own.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

And to do that - 1st we ALL must own it - the system as it stands - and vote out the roadblocks to healthy change - and if everyone is not prepared and committed to do that - well then - nothing will change - not for the better anyway - no the government will continue to get worse and life will continue to get worse - for ALL - even for the greedy insane assholes running things now.

Then the only way government will be changed is by much blood being spilled in anger - and then What? Will whatever government that comes out of that be any better? That's not generally how things go after a bloody revolution.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20522) 11 months ago

We've been voting for decades. While that would be my chosen route, I just don't see it working very well as long as the economic system is set up as it is to put profit over people. It corrupts the government.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

But so far enough of TPTB is going LaLaLaLaLaLaLaLa....I can't hear you ...NyaNyaNyaNya - to roadblock anything from getting improved or even corrected.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20522) 11 months ago

That is why we need an overhaul to our political and economic system. There is no getting through to these people. They will not become moral and decent on their own.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 months ago

give me a living wage

let's avoid making up zombie dance employment to go with it

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20522) 11 months ago

Workers are human beings who have to support themselves. There is more to life than profit.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 months ago

we all live off the energy gathered by plants

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20522) 11 months ago

Yes, the environment is hugely important. All life is.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 months ago

animals are leaches on the honest chemistry of photosynthesis

and the plants just sit there tirelessly collecting life energy

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

It's an energy cycle surely ?! I mean yes animals are predatory on plants ultimately, as that's where the food chain begins with the utter cold fusion beauty of photosynthesis, yet animals of many sorts fertilise plants both with aiding pollination and later with deposits of digested and processed plant food and also spread seeds too. Animals aren't leeches Matt, they're part of the process ... like we all are, ohmmm ~

omnia mutantur ...

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[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Your's is a voice I seem to recognise and a 'spirit' that always shines through ;-) Ergo, for you and yours and your comrades, colleagues and ''co-conspirators'', I append & strongly recommend playing loudly :

Solidarity to you and yours my friend, in all your endeavours and expeditions for The 99%.

pax, amor et lux ...

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[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

''On the second anniversary of that day in lower Manhattan when people first sat down in outrage and then stayed in dedication and solidarity and hope, remember them, remember how unpredictably the world changes, remember those doing heroic work that you might hear little or nothing about but who are all around you, remember to hope, remember to build. Remember that you are 99% likely to be one of them and take up the burden that is also an invitation to change the world and occupy your dreams.''

You'll be there @ #S17 in NYC as I type this but solidarity, here and now nevertheless and a safe and happy homecoming to you later on. Thanx for the great links and comment & Lee Camp says it like no one else these days. Here's Ep.#1 with Greg Palast as guest and who was also on 'The Keiser Report' today (17th Sept.'13) talking about 'The Bankster Cabal' with deep insights and in completely amazing terms, hence the other 3 links :

I'm not at all sure that I can fully express the utterly jaw dropping implications of all of this, so I prefer to leave it to Greg Palast himself talking to Max Keiser on 'TKR' Ep.#498 link above (or will be available on You-Tube later too).On Camps first show on the link above, Palast speaks of some early dark secrets of The Brothers Koch and also of 'Presidential Selection' in The U$A & again beyond eye opening too, lol !!

e tenebris lux ...

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[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Greg Palast, Lee Camp & Max Keiser do indeed rock - as do you. Thanx for an excellent report and links back from the front lines of The 99% struggle. Solidarity to you and yours - wherever they may be and tho' I'm hundreds of miles from the river, I'm going to look at a NYC map for Thames Alleyway + fyi :

From which : ''TPP is the point of why Occupy came to exist in the first place, the distilled essence. If this deal happens, it will be the final triumph of the legal fiction known as "corporate personhood," the fraud that gives your 14th Amendment rights to a faceless, unassailable company with billions in assets and the will to use them in our already-septic political system. With this "trade" pact, they will be able to stretch those rights globally, nationally, regionally, locally and literally right down your throat. Sounds like a bad Batman plot? It isn't! The president thinks it's a fine idea. Occupy. While you still can.''

Solidaritet min van.

per ardua ad astra ...

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

@ Mods & Odin: Why have the three comments from 'Catelonia' above been 'Removed' ?!!! I saw them, read them, liked them & replied to them !! I have a Very Serious Problem with the retrospective removal of comments and the attempts at editing and censoring such threads and am very unhappy about this !

too pissed off for latin ...

[-] 0 points by WSmith (2091) from Cornelius, OR 11 months ago

RE: "@ Mods & Odin: Why have":

You (& friends) FORGOT/OMITTED Hypocritical !

Being responsible for many erroneous bannings!

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Did I 'forget' ?!!! How so ?!! How is your shouty comment even relevant never mind useful ?! If you've the courage of your convictions then don't be embarrassed to speak your mind clearly. Also fyi, consider :

fiat lux ...

[-] -1 points by WSmith (2091) from Cornelius, OR 11 months ago

Roof Top Shoot It Out:

OH! You're so Bewildered! How could YOU be QUESTIONED???

Your vicious and reckless Self-aggrandizing, Hall Monitoring, sometimes pro-99% ~ most-times anti-American, political-suicide, etc, BS, is how and why you should be criticized.

YET you aid & abet evictions and bannings on some ethereal standards.

If posters don't troll or advocate the violent overthrow of the government or fellow posters, let them present their views.

Let DEMOCRACY REIGN!!!!

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Yes, ''Let Democracy Reign''

But 'Duopoly' is a total pain !

The People get sold out ...

And Pols get found out -

As only The Parasites gain !

~

Do you think we can exchange views no matter how trenchant without immediately resorting to hand to hand combat (& yeah, mea culpa too - especially @ Trashy) ?! Can't the body punches follow a li'l later, lol ?!! How I have aided and abetted ''evictions and bannings'' - is utterly lost on me but I agree with your last two paragraphs tho' !!! ''Let Democracy Reign'' but consider, Corporate Controlled Duopoly ain't that.

ad iudicium ...

[-] -1 points by WSmith (2091) from Cornelius, OR 11 months ago

The Complete Guide To The GOP’s Three-Year Campaign To Shut Down The Government

By Igor Volsky on September 20, 2013 at 9:01 am

As the nation races toward another budgetary crisis next month, Republican leaders are using the prospect of a government shutdown and the need to raise the nation’s debt ceiling as leverage points to undermine the Affordable Care Act — just days before uninsured Americans are expected to sign up for health care coverage — and extract additional cuts to government programs.

Past Congresses have used the debt ceiling as a “vehicle for other legislative matters” or nongermane amendments, but as the timeline below demonstrates, the Republicans that came to power after the 2010 midterm elections demanded something entirely different: they threatened to push the nation into default and shut down the government unless Congress approves deep structural budget cuts during a period of economic recession.

In November of 2010, GOP leaders informally polled the incoming freshman and were surprised to discover that “all but four of them said they would vote against raising the ceiling, under any circumstances.” This response was the result of what the Washington Post described as a “natural outgrowth of a years-long effort” by GOP recruiters to build a new majority with uncompromising anti-tax, anti-spending candidates and it effectively hamstrung Republican leaders from accepting any kind of budgetary compromise from the Obama administration. As a result, House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) and House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) walked away from so-called grand bargains with the White House at least twice and have since adopted the same kind of uncompromising rhetoric that’s known to animate political campaigns, not actual governance.

CONTINUED: http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/09/20/2649481/timeline/

Throw your tantrum monkey shit at the GOP perpetrators!

[-] 7 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

I'm chomping a banana and scratching the top of my head like Stan Laurel at your other replies to me elsewhere on this thread but thanx for the great time line item and from your recommended link above :

''SEP 30, 2013: Fiscal year 2013 ends. Congress and the President must agree on appropriations for fiscal year 2014 by September 30 so the government can function when the new year begins on October 1, 2013.''

Bat-Shit-Crazy Republicans are beyond the pale of course but this is the ritualised 'smoke and mirrors' exercise - as all elected pols (Demoblican & Republicrats lol) dance to the tune of that cabal of private banksters, 'The Federal Reserve', as Neocon Empire abroad and Neoliberal Austerity at home, rolls on - all under the auspices of L'Emporeur du jours, The Corporate Bankster Controlled POTU$, Obummer :-(

Effective political activity and the mobilisation of a 99% 'Movement of The Masses' will have to take on a perspective longer than one or two election cycles. A labor based 3rd Party and True 99% Independents need to seriously challenge the duopoly because Ds have been pulled so hard to the right by the Rs, as to be unrecognisable to The 99%. These days FDR would be considered a raving pinko .. (and sad sigh)

You don't get a revolution let alone watershed changes - by sticking with the status quo. OWS is one of the important and very necessary starts of a new paradigm for us all ... either that or it's a dark future of Fascism without opposition. We all should listen to your 1934 audio-file from elsewhere on this thread :

So thanx for - ''A little Huey would be good for these times, sans the gods - Every man a King'' :

Seeds when planted grow - something The 0.01% Parasite Class know,

So educate, agitate and organise now and go with The New 99% flow ~

dum spiro spero, multum in parvo et fiat pax ...

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

''12. Bradley Manning is in jail. Dick Cheney is not.'' !!! from :

Please note where ''originally published'' on the link ;-)

minima maxima sunt ?

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Ok. Editing after the event doesn't always add to clarity I think but I'll also append the following, fyi :

ad iudicium ...

[-] -3 points by theresamathews (1) 11 months ago

It's saddening that we just lost builder due to bad moderation. He was a good contributor. Always polite. Used proper arguments. I had many good discussions with him.

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[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

You should go to the source - abuse@occupywallst.org - http://occupywallst.org/forum/karma-is-restored-order-is-restored/

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 11 months ago

That's not an answer, DKA.

That's called passing the buck.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

No it's called being an adult and not a child. We are not kids on the playground.

I don't have access to see what is going on - site admin does - so it is not passing the buck - it is being sensible.

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[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 11 months ago

Power corrupts. Ultimate power corrupts ultimately.

I agree with all that you've posited horseofsteel

There are very important OCCUPY days looming ahead.

We really do need to present a unified front, if we are to be taken seriously in anyone's calender.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

If you truly believe that - ''There are very important OCCUPY days looming ahead.'' then don't forsake The 99%, OWS or the forum - despite any provocations. Keep laying down the information. Also fyi :

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 11 months ago

Thanks Shadz, but just take this one thread as an example, count the [Removed] signs.

Place is fucking joke.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

The banning & removing are self-defeating, this much is true,

But the real question is what are you, I & others gonna do ?

Leaving the forum to the 'Co Opters & Dem Championers',

Just feels like forsaking OWS and forgetting The 99%ers -

So plough on, persevere and post the info important to you !

~

Equally beware co-option by pathological contrarians who like broken clocks - can be coincidentally right a couple of times a day but by accident and co-incidence rather than good design. So stay well, warm, wise and aware but I'm speaking from a Northern Hemisphere Autumnal perspective, while you are starting to have a 'spring' in your step these days as that's when 'a young man's thoughts turn to love' no doubt. Solidarity 'B' in all your doings.

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 3 points by penguentoredux (-1) 11 months ago

Just as an FYI, I'm keeping up my end of the deal. I've watched about half of the film, and notwithstanding my obvious contrarian tendencies, I agree with pretty much everything he says. (yes, I know this is the wrong thread, but it's 3 a.m., and sleep is calling). I'll withhold detailed commentary until I've seen it all, but a few thoughts in the interim:

The peak oil, resource depletion issue: Very old news, which may surprise some. When I was a geology student 30 years ago, some of my profs were old oil geologists, and they were perfectly well aware of it all way back then, and considered it to be completely uncontroversial, and rather old, knowledge. The so-called debate over it is completely specious. The people who do these things for a living have known it for at least most of my professional life, which is to say, quite a while now.

Climate change: Likewise. A couple of years back, one of the foremost climate change skeptics, who'd challenged all previous work as incomplete and poorly done, completed an exhaustive study, from a skeptical standpoint, and announced that he'd changed his mind. Carbon-based climate change was, in his view, real. More fundamentally, anyone who's ever studied chemistry even a little bit knows that if a system is in equilibrium (like, for example, the atmosphere) you can't add significant amounts of a substance without changing the equilibrium. Ergo, if you pump millions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere, something must necessarily change. It cannot not change.

All that said, I'll be interested to hear what he has to say about so-called renewable energy. I'm not very optimistic about it, for a variety of reasons.

Cognito et prudentia. Et pax.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 11 months ago

My focus is currently upon the biotechs, Nufarm, Croplife and Monz.

Preparing for the second MAM on October 12th. Pasting posters and arranging speakers.

As for Spring, we've already had one night of Summer storms, and predictions of a heat-wave later this week tells me that Spring might cede into an early Summer like it did last year.

I'll be heading down to Tasmania to find a haven in the mountains to escape the coming wild weather.

Solidarity to you and yours.

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[-] -1 points by WSmith (2091) from Cornelius, OR 11 months ago

Under the guise of some false sense of political/apolitical "Purity," leaving the forum to False Flag complainers, snipers and Unicorn Chasers is far worse as it leads to a disparaged and disengaged electorate, a weakened democracy and ultimately 1%-GOP Domination and Tyranny!

And We have had enough of that to last several generations!

Honest and diverse Free Speech should be upheld, but we allow liars and deceivers to pollute and mislead to this forum's demise, and to the detriment of the 99%.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 months ago

people are desperate to control a dispersive linking systems

The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers

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[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 11 months ago

Pffffft, You know I've already said that I don't give a rat's arse who posts the message. It's the content that concerns me.

If indeed you are Thrashy, makes no difference to the outcome, in my book.

We've had several chats about important issues over the last two years.

People need to refocus on the OCCUPY movement, and let go of their personal angst. Because in the end, what really matters?

Outcomes? Or personal shite?

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[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 11 months ago

Thankyou. I find it's easier to be civil, than to be vitriolic.

The older I get, the less value I see in being on the attack.

Though I will burr up if the occasion warrants it.

What I'm finding on this forum of late, is quite a disturbing mix of personal vendetta, combined with a dog-pile mentality.

If not for a couple of regulars who seem to be immune to such activities, Shadz and Beautifulworld spring to mind, I'd be off spreading my morose form of cheer elsewhere.

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[-] -3 points by RobertHod (1) 11 months ago

Well said.

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[-] 0 points by WSmith (2091) from Cornelius, OR 11 months ago

BULL SHIT!!

The POTUS does NOT think TPP is a fine idea any more than he thought paying the RANSOM to recalcitrant RepubliCons in the 2011 budget deal was a "good idea."

This is an unfortunate compromise and answer to the people who TURNOUT~BIG $.

We might bitch, but we don't TURNOUT!!

THAT DOESN'T COUNT!!

This is the PRICE he (Black POTUS) has to pay for the BETRAYAL he suffered in the 2010 MIDTERMS!!!

HEY DIMWITS! ! SEEK REDEMPTION! VOTE IN THE 2014 MIDTERMS!!

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

The POTUS is signing The TPP ! Period !! ''Black'' or not, he's a ''White Knight'' for Crapitalism !!!

It's rather nice of you to go from the sublime ie. your comment and link re. Huey Long on this thread ( http://occupywallst.org/forum/some-thoughts-for-s17-cause-no-one-ever-said-the-b/#comment-1003902 ) to the ridiculous - ie. above.

Your residual faith in The Democrap Party when they are so clearly corporate owned & controled, having sold out The 99% at every turn with the occasional fig leaf and slice of cake thrown ... is as touching as it is perplexing. What does it say that people like Dennis Kucinich & Cythia McKinney can not find any space or succour within The Dem Party as The Machine gerrymandered them out ?! There is a massive disconnect between The Democrap's on The Hill and their 'party machine' & the legions vast, of average desperate, dejected and forgotten Dem voters - and you know it ! Obomber ?!! ... Huey Long, he ain't !!!

ad iudicium ...

[-] -2 points by WSmith (2091) from Cornelius, OR 11 months ago

Once again, where are your solutions? Blame Dems? Got alternatives?

crickets

Are you that delusional or two-faced that you think that you are somehow helping by sniping and bomb throwing at the people trying to fight an insane, suicide bombing, hostage taking, extortionist, terrorist, Zombie GOP with unlimited 1% $$, MSM, Fox Lies and 24/365 Hate-Wing radio?

The people are MUSHROOMED (kept in the dark and fed shit) so it's no wonder we have such an anemic and pathetic democracy, and Big $$ domination!

WE NEED to revive our democracy with the only historically feasible and reliable party proven and capable of fighting for the 99%. Are the Dems flawed? of course. No party or cult is perfect, there is only better.

WE DON'T NEED a British tantrum monkey throwing her shit at responders trying to fix this sabotaged mess, Two-Faced or Delusional!

Why don't you do something about your Thatcher-spawn PM?

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

''A little Huey would be good for these times, sans the god. Every man a King'', (Winston Smith,''1984'') :

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] -1 points by WSmith (2091) from Cornelius, OR 11 months ago

rats!

down the memory hole.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

“He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.” (George Orwell, ''1984'') & with this in mind, I append fyi :

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] -1 points by WSmith (2091) from Cornelius, OR 11 months ago

Why doesn't he address (or even mention) the decades on scandal, the horrendous destruction of the Amazon River basin and forest, in his 8+ year backyard??

I have a big problem with exclusion, omission, lying and fraud.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Hmmm, does 'evasion' belong on your 'problem list' too ?! On the matter of Brazil & The NSA, consider :

Interesting stuff - but of course not so if you're au fait with The NSA !! Also fyi :

ad iudicium ...

[-] 2 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

Any solution is better than the one that the elites created, the same one you are endorsing.

[-] -1 points by WSmith (2091) from Cornelius, OR 11 months ago

Try Voting! HC

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

For The 99% !!! ~;~

with u, hchc & me ...

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

'Boner' is an idiot so thanx for a very nice tune - sung with a hint of a British accent ? Lol ! Again :

''Americans - specifically Republicans and Democrats - have become more divided in their perceptions of federal power since the end of the Bush administration. Within a year of Obama's inauguration, Republicans' and Democrats' views on the issue diverged dramatically, leaving a gulf between the parties that remains today''

'Republic or Democracy ?' That could become the fundamental question in future - if not already.

multum in parvo ...

[-] -1 points by WSmith (2091) from Cornelius, OR 11 months ago

Did you get that from the back of a SW Flakes box? Sounds like it.

They shut off the link to The Boner song, I knew it was too good to be true, bastards!

[Removed]

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

This week, we learned that the income gap between the rich and the rest of us is greater than it's been since the 1920's. The 1% are pulling in profits hand over fist while most Americans struggle to make ends meet. It's unacceptable and we need change now. Congress could alleviate some of the economic pain and close the gap by raising the minimum wage, but we all know that the Republicans would never let that happen.

But that doesn't mean that progress needs to wait. Multi-billion dollar corporations like McDonald's could improve the lives of millions of working Americans tomorrow by paying their employees a living wage instead of locking them in near the minimum wage. McDonald's workers went on strike recently to demand better pay, but they can't win this fight alone. McDonald's won't change unless the American public stands behind these workers and demands it.

Tell McDonald's that you've had enough - no working American deserves to live in poverty. Pay your employees a living wage.

Last year, McDonald's brought in $5.5 billion dollars in profits - and tripled its CEO's salary. But the majority of its employees make less than $16,000 a year. Many of these workers are adults caring for ailing parents or young children, and a salary that low makes it nearly impossible for them to survive. Most of them have to hold down multiple jobs. Many frequently go hungry.

McDonald's has responded to public pressure to make positive change happen before. Decades ago, environmentalists turned up the heat on McDonald's over the use of plastic foam packaging, which isn't biodegradable. The corporation resisted at first, but after the environmentalists educated and rallied the public McDonald's listened to the people and introduced more eco-friendly packaging.

They've listened before. Let's make them listen again.

Join us and tell McDonald's to pay their employees a living wage now.

Thank you for standing up for workers,

Karli

Karli Wallace, National Campaign Organizer Democracy for America

Donate today Paid for by Democracy for America, http://www.democracyforamerica.com/?t=3&akid=3906.2041858.N07qeB and not authorized by any candidate. Contributions to Democracy for America are not deductible for federal income tax purposes.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

''McDonald's recently tweeted : "Good morning! Any big plans for the weekend?" Coca-Cola also says : "Proven fact : making friends is easy when you're bubbly, refreshing and delicious." They're not kidding -- Coca-Cola has over a million "followers" on that website.'' !!! & from :

Thanx for the very informative comment and solidarity.

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

" They're not kidding -- Coca-Cola has over a million "followers" on that website.'

Hhmmmm - one wonders - faithful/fearful employees? Or results of a marketing program to like themselves.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Or frankly by low paid 'likers' in ''click farms'' abroad !!! Curious ?!! Read On !

multum in parvo ....

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

" done by a team of low-paid workers in Dhaka, Bangladesh, "

Well there ya go - Coke it's not the real thing.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Further to your point re. McDonalds and with democracy and corporatocracy in mind, I append fyi :

''We can speak out against a new McDonald's, another freeway or a bigger power station, but is anyone listening to local voices anymore ?''

spero meliora ...

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

Corporatocracy killing grassroots democracy

That is the goal of corp(se)oRATions and their lackeys the corp(se)oRATists in office. They are afraid that someday their bubble is gonna get popped.

And yes I think that the protests and those protesting are being heard. The full strength of the peoples voice however is "yet" to be heard. But I believe we are building to that. IMO

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Behind 'The CorpoRATocracy' lies The Banksers, fleecing us all at every turn :

multum in parvo ...

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

Forum Post: Libertarianism: The True History

Posted 1 week ago on Sept. 9, 2013, 11:41 a.m. EST by shooz (21919) This content is user submitted and not an official statement http://occupywallst.org/forum/libertarianism-the-true-history/

"Every couple of years, mainstream media hacks pretend to have just discovered libertarianism as some sort of radical, new and dynamic force in American politics. It’s a rehash that goes back decades, and hacks love it because it’s easy to write, and because it’s such a non-threatening “radical” politics (unlike radical left politics, which threatens the rich). The latest version involves a summer-long pundit debate in the pages of the New York Times, Reason magazine and elsewhere over so-called “libertarian populism.” It doesn’t really matter whose arguments prevail, so long as no one questions where libertarianism came from or why we’re defining libertarianism as anything but a big business public relations campaign, the winner in this debate is Libertarianism. "

http://www.alternet.org/visions/true-history-libertarianism-america-phony-ideology-promote-corporate-agenda

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

''The True History of Libertarianism in America: A Phony Ideology to Promote a Corporate Agenda'' - is how The Alternet article is titled & it sum's it up succinctly really. Thanx for a good and recommended read, which ends : ''There's no idealism here. The notion that libertarian ideas have captured the political imagination of millions in this country is a root problem : if we're going to escape the corporate oligarchy that is running this country - their ideas can't possibility be the alternative solution. This movement has to be recognized for what it is.''

The problem with Libertarianism is that it is a child's candy store fantasy : Lots of sugar, no nutritional value and rots your teeth, guts and ultimately - soul !!!

ne quid nimis ...

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

Right-ON - but thanks go to shooz for posting the article.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Like the Cato Institute & The Heritage Foundation, what would be useful is full on list of all the Koch & others funded right wing libertarian 'stink tanks' employed to influence public discourse and policy both domestically and internationally. I'm just thinking out loud right now and will set to it myself in the near future probably - after #S17. Solidarity & a cross link to the very affecting and arresting (pun intended) :

Much food for thought for anyone who believes in The Rule of Law or Democracy in The U$A or indeed anywhere else for that matter. NYPD = 'NOT YOUR Police Department' - but Bloomfux Private Army !!!

e tenebris lux ...

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

TWINKLE

DKAtoday ‏@DKAtoday

10 Arrests 87 Minutes: Anatomy of the NYPD’s Protest Dispersal Process | http://OccupyWallSt.org : http://occupywallst.org/article/10-arrests-87-minutes-anatomy-nypds-protest-disper/#.Ujc8N-_eaUU.twitter

OWS Cares

re-tweet

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

''The Origins of Our Police State'', by Chris Hedges :

''Our failure to defend the rights of the poor in the name of law and order, our demonization of young black men, our acceptance that they can be stripped of the power to protect themselves from police abuse or find equality before the law, mean that their fate will soon become ours.'' Ringing any bells ?!!!

caveat emptor ...

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

As the rest of society is beginning to find out. More and more will come to this truth as our protests continue.


Chris Hedges: The Origins of Our Police State - Chris Hedges ... The Origins of Our Police State www.truthdig.com/report/page2/the_origins_of_our_police_state_20130916

Sep 16, 2013 · Our failure to defend the rights of the poor ... young black men, our acceptance that they can be stripped of the power to protect themselves from police ...

[-] 1 points by Revolutionary (267) 11 months ago

We have got alternative to capitalism even a universal language more efficient , accurate and elaborate than the contemporary languages but what creates inertia are the small countries(especially the islamic countries like Pakistan) who too want the status quo.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

''At its core, the Occupy movement was a struggle to restore democracy to a society dominated by corporate control. Wealth inequality and the domination of economic, political and social systems by the super rich are unavoidable results of capitalism.

''True democracy is incompatible with capitalism. When communities are able to authentically make their voices heard and wield power to have their fundamental human needs met, a system that relies on one group profiting at the expense of another will be deconstructed. The kind of democracy that is necessary to transform our society requires more than simply electing a representative every four years - it enables all members of society to participate in meaningful decision-making that improves their quality of life.

''By building and strengthening spaces where people can exercise direct democracy to exert control over their communities we can create a counterweight to corporate control and start to rebuild the social fabric with which we can build a movement to change the balance of power in the US.'' from :

Solidarity to The Struggle for Justice everywhere. The 'conservativeness' of The 1% must be overcome.

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 0 points by Revolutionary (267) 11 months ago

People like you ensure the bright future for the people of USA while as your present government or the past ones are leading the people of USA to a bleak future and disintegration of USA which shall after all lose all wars on the humanity.The best friends of USA are the Governments (of those countries which USA treats as enemy number one) like that of Pakistan,Afghanistan,Iraq etc which too have adopted capitalism.Strategy of Pakistan to deal with American aggression is to wait while it sees USA weaking with the passage of time.But USA nurshes the potentially most big enemy of the humanity the India against Pakistan and is afraid of India Pakistan war because that shall raze to the ground all the evil dreams of USA.You are lucky to have a relatively well educated and cultured society which has got more potential to change than those in the Asia or africa.In fact you are doing a great job to save the humanity from direct or indirect self destruction.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

The 'Revolution' is worldwide ! The 99% struggle against their oppression at the hands of Plutocrats, Feudal Oligarchs and various descriptions of The Parasites Class - wherever we are !!! One Struggle ; One World ; One Love !!! Also fyi :

The prospect of any kind of a war between nuclear armed India and nuclear armed Pakistan doesn't bear contemplation. What a global power for peace they could have been had they remained one nation ; one country ; one people and lived as they once did. The 99% should eschew nationalism - especially based on faux religious identity - which is like a kind of 'false consciousness' that leads nowhere good.

Consider what a conceit it is to regard oneself as having any unique access to eternal, immutable and universal 'spiritual truths' by mere accident of birth, conversation or even education !!! Such utter hubris and prejudice is but a hair's breadth away from irrational concepts of racial supremacy and are equally as unconscionable.

shalom aleichem ; salam aliakum ; pax vobiscum ...

[-] 4 points by Revolutionary (267) 2 months ago

Thank you dear shadz66 for your enlightening thoughts.I am sure that the revolution of the humanity against all evils shall succeed definitely.Occupy movement shall be the founding philosophy of the human beings in the coming millennium for all essential interactions.

[-] 6 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 months ago

''For a Global Brotherhood Among The Peoples'' by Evo Morales, President of Bolivia :

Thanx for your kind, graceful and encouraging words ''Revolutionary'' .. and in compliment to both Evo Morales' words and your sentiments above, I append and recommend :

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 3 points by Revolutionary (267) 1 month ago

Thank you very much for the helpful links.I would like to inform MattlHolck that it is not difficult to govern( we can have even intelligent computers for that for example we can have so to say talking/interacting goods and services!! when all goods and services are given an identity ---a seemingly colossal task but in fact easy task) but the hurdles for people are created by the rulers because of their ill intentions.What has to be done is to change the mindset of the humanity from profit earning to COUNT ON AND ENJOYING WORKING and HELPING which I believe the occupy movement shall be able to achieve.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 month ago

Re. ''What has to be done is to change the mindset of the humanity from profit earning to COUNT ON AND ENJOYING WORKING and HELPING ...'' - I agree and in compliment, I'll repeat ...

ie. my last link would be the one I would recommend first to you and any and all readers here. Here's examples of what and where new thinking by the ''intelligent computers'' that are us, are capable of :

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 1 points by nazihunter (215) 11 months ago

Another word for regulations is LAWs. Right now, the Kochs should be tried for murder, as with Monsanto and several others we could name who already have their libertarianism. These billionaires are just mind-fuckers with nothing better to do. Libertarianism? Hah!

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

What do libertarians actually want ?! It's not entirely clear to me that they really know themselves. They're pretty good with the shibboleths, platitudes and nostrums but always seem to have trouble beyond that.

That's because it is precisely on the other side of all the sappy slogans where the contradictions of Libertarianism come glaringly into focus. This is the place where naive but kindly people would say - "WHAT ?!!! I signed up for that ?!!" - and that's exactly why libertarians don't really want to go there.

But yes, let's go there lol :

“I grew up reading Ayn Rand, and it taught me quite a bit about who I am and what my value systems are and what my beliefs are. It’s inspired me so much that it’s required reading in my office for all my interns and my staff.” (Paul Ryan, RAT - 'RepubliCon Artist Turd')

There are several key explanations for the rise of the insane right over the last three decades but surely one of them has been the supine compliance of the Corporate MSM. Politicians have been able to make the most absurdly ridiculous and hypocritical statements without fear of being called on them and if they ever were, they need only repeat the same b-s line, in some slightly different variation and that's the end of the affair as media lapdogs are well trained to cease & desist & u r right btw, LAWS exist to protect !!

ad iudicium ...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

Required reading. HUH - does ol Lyin Ryan ambush em with pop quizzes? What is the penalty for a wrong answer ( not by the book ) ?

[-] 6 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

The ideology of Libertarianism has some nice twee bumper-sticker like appeal, especially for the more simplistic among us. Who after all, could be against more 'freedom' ? Indeed, when it comes to social issues, the libertarians have it right. The government shouldn't be in the business of controlling women's bodies, or telling people what substances they can imbibe, or who they can sleep with or marry, or even whether they can end their own lives should they choose to. But you don't need to be a libertarian to get to those places as these are also progressive ideas as well.

Where Libertarianism totally breaks down is in assuming that we can all just do what we want and it will work out great AND in assuming that all private actors are essentially well intentioned. Neither of these is true, and a libertarian society would leave each of us at the mercy of these twin fallacies.

Is it any damn wonder that Corporations - now legally 'Individuals' after the treachery of The SCOTUS' 'Citizens United' (worra fkn misnomer btw!) pushes Libertarian 'pseudo-individualism' with the Banksters, Plutocrats and Oligarchs pushing and bankrolling the whole deal ?! Also consider :

fiat lux ...

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

The ideology of Libertarianism has some nice twee bumper-sticker like appeal, especially for the more simplistic among us. Who after all, could be against more 'freedom' ?

Yep - so catchy - so nice - so good - YAY - Right to Work ( Right for employers to fire you without cause ) - YAY - Americans for Prosperity ( the 0.01% - as prosperity is not for "every" American ) - so y'all just come along and jump on board ( as we send you to the poor house ) - libertopia - ain't this FUN ???

What is truly Bizarre? That the common individual in these party's/groups do not see the lies. They just keep taking that 2x4 to the face and keep coming back for more.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Not ''seeing it'' is not just an innate blindness or obtuseness, it's a created and manufactured situation and circumstance - a planted and conditioned response, if you will. Please further consider :

''What has changed the game plan over the past two decades has been the rise of distributed and decentralized global communications between individuals. The Internet in particular, as well as other forms of social media, have spurred the growth of individuals seeking information between and among themselves, a process which is often external to the consensus of various nation-states. This has had the effect of shifting people away from conditioned patterns of propaganda and belief systems. This bottom-up intervention has seriously compromised the patterning techniques of ruling authorities.

''There are now efforts underway to censor information sites that are critical of the state. It is therefore imperative that our independent media be protected, our social networks of free speech preserved, and our right to seek and speak the truth defended. Messing with our minds has no place in a truly democratic and egalitarian future.''

veritas vos liberabit ...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

There are now efforts underway to censor information sites that are critical of the state. It is therefore imperative that our independent media be protected, our social networks of free speech preserved, and our right to seek and speak the truth defended. Messing with our minds has no place in a truly democratic and egalitarian future.

Kinda says it all - Hey?

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 months ago

those efforts will be like spitting in the wind

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

Good article - BTW - TWEET

DKAtoday ‏@DKAtoday

Messing With Our Minds: The Ever Finer Line Between News and Advertising http://truth-out.org/news/item/9156-messing-with-our-minds-the-ever-finer-line-between-news-and-advertising

Because the more you know

re-tweet

Pls

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Tweet this buddy : http://vimeo.com/74606365 for obvious reasons & solidarity @ #S17-2013 !!!

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

Already Done Dude. {:-])

Keep-on KEEPING-ON

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Digging The Tag Team Tweeting !!! Another one for the peeps dude :

minima maxima sunt ...

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

{:-]) synchronicity.

DKAtoday ‏@DKAtoday

Chris Hedges: The Origins of Our Police State - Truthdig: http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_origins_of_our_police_state_20130916/#.UjdcE0HQ-lc.twitter … via @truthdig

U may want 2 carefully consider this.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

''As in most police states, cops serve as judge and jury on city streets—“a long step down the totalitarian path,” in the words that U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas wrote in 1968 when he decried expanding police powers. And police departments are bolstered by an internal surveillance and security apparatus that has eradicated privacy and dwarfed the intrusion into personal lives by police states of the past, including East Germany.

''Under a series of Supreme Court rulings we have lost the rights to protect ourselves from random searches, home invasions, warrantless wiretapping and eavesdropping and physical abuse. Police units in poor neighborhoods function as armed gangs. The pressure to meet departmental arrest quotas—the prerequisite for lavish federal aid in the “war on drugs”—results in police routinely seizing people at will and charging them with a laundry list of crimes, often without just cause. Because many of these crimes carry long mandatory sentences it is easy to intimidate defendants into “pleading out” on lesser offenses. The police and the defendants know that the collapsed court system, in which the poor get only a few minutes with a public attorney, means there is little chance the abused can challenge the system. And there is also a large pool of willing informants who, to reduce their own sentences, will tell a court anything demanded of them by the police.'' from the tweeted article by Chris Hedges but worth excerpting here & I append an embedded relevant link from the article :

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

Under a series of Supreme Court rulings we have lost - "rights"

PERIOD. Should be renamed - The Supreme Corpse ( short for ) Corp(se)oRAT

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Again and again The SCOTUS has shown itself detached from The 99% ; in league with The 1% and in bed with The 0.01% ! Eg: ''The Supreme Court's decision in Allied Chemical Workers v. Pittsburgh Plate Glass to give employers complete control of retiree benefits undercuts the purpose of the National Labor Relations Act and leaves vulnerable, retired employees powerless to protect themselves from costly changes in benefits.'' from :

facta non verba ...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

The SCROTUM ummm sorry ( kinda appropriate though - them being a ball sack ) .... the SCOTUS very seriously should be charged with treason. They are supposed to be the bulwark of the Constitution.

[-] -2 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

In "libertopia" as you state it, there would be no right to work legislation because the government doesnt get a say in your relationship with employers.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Government is imperfect and downright lethal as it can be when it is in the hands of those who use it for the wrong purposes. However in a Democracy (& of course - there's the rub right there, right ?!) it is the instrument and expression of the public will.

Government is the tool through which society conveys its values and seeks to achieve our mutual goals. It is meant to be triumphant over private actors because societal needs - which, by the way, can, should and often do include government protecting individual 'liberties' - {see, for example, - "Bill of Rights"!!} are broadly more important than those of the individual. Hence I get the individual 'liberty' bit AND the 'social' bit & describe myself as a 'Libertarian Socialist' but these are just terms as only The 99% matter really.

pax ...

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

The savage corporate plunder that led to the current recession, seems to have exploded for all time any naive belief in the existence of a harmonious, prosperous society that functions for the good of all.

Who would now argue against the theory that the protest of The 99% against the 1% is a rebellion of the poor and middle class against the rich based on a recognition that society is unconscionably stratified ?

That is the essence of class consciousness. Marx thought such class consciousness would inevitably lead to revolution. In 2013 U$A, UK etc. it has led instead to a real consciousness among the Occupy protesters and the population at large against a one-sided system of financial exploitation, which in its own way is quite revolutionary. Finally, I need to bring the following to your attention TD :

radix omnium malorum est cupiditas ...

[-] -2 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

The two main aspects that are driving the increased popularity among the youth are, imo, personal freedoms and an end to wars. With the current state of the US, its no wonder.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

You are right and I get your point but these limited notions of 'Libertarianism' and Randian Objectivism are being pushed by certain interests in The U$A, as far as I can see. From above, please reconsider :

''These people are not stupid. They know damn well that they will start out the race well ahead of the masses because they have all the capital and they will wipe the masses up off the floor. So, what do they do ? - They pull regular people in with sexy stuff like : "You will be free to have as many guns as you want." ; "You can smoke pot and do drugs if you want." ; "You will not have to send your kids to school if you don't want to." etc. etc. And, regular people buy into this social crap that they spew.

''They buy into it because they feel so oppressed in the first place working at jobs that pay barely enough to survive that any kind of liberty sounds freaking great.''

I'm kinda hoping that you'll recognise the words and the deep truth therein. If pushed for an ideological descriptor, I'd describe myself as a 'Libertarian Socialist' which in the minds of some political illiterates would be oxymoronic !!! However, there is a very long tradition of it across the world but Americans are as ever kept in the dark by their 'mind mangers' about such things. OWS is part of a rolling, educative, societal change for real liberty !! Onwards and upwards .. together we are stronger ! Vive Les 99% ~*~

dum spiro spero ...

[-] 3 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 months ago

They pull regular people in with sexy stuff like : "You will be free to have as many guns as you want." ; "You can smoke pot and do drugs if you want." ; "You won't have to send your kids to school if you don't want to." etc etc. And, regular people buy into this social crap that they spew. They buy into it because they feel so oppressed in the first place working at jobs that pay barely enough to survive that any kind of liberty sounds freaking great.''

FLAG 05 Take the Pill

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Not too easy on the ears, lol but have you seen this : http://vimeo.com/74606365 ?!!!

Solidarity @ you & yours on #S17 Matt, never give up on peace despite naysayers !!

Also see 'Heist! Expanded Trailer': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltNaDDQZ07k !

fiat pax ...

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 11 months ago

"They buy into it because they feel so oppressed in the first place working at jobs that pay barely enough to survive that any kind of liberty sounds freaking great."

Exactly. I've had TONS of discussions with libertarians, some even minor party members, on their whole zero regulations stuff. I ask them what they would feel about democratically decided on rules? Usually, they said they would be open to it, at which point I tell them they may want to focus on that a bit, because letting the oil companies go insane would be....well....insane.

While there is no doubt that massive regulation is hurting creativity and innovation, the multinationals already have pretty much a free ride. So much so that some, like the oil companies, actually TAKE money from the population (subsidies). Its the normal people who get screwed.

Socialists, anarchists and libertarians all have some core belief that if their system were initiated, that the sickos that have run the world would now disappear and we will only have good people to work with.

Each one has aspects I like, each one you can see obvious flaws that would arise.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Which is why buddy DEMOCRACY and open discussions and a true exchange of ideas, possibly resulting in a common conclusion for The 99% is just so important and which is why btw, I do not appreciate your habitual, reactive stinklers, lol.

'Citizens United' has usurped demoCRAZY deMOCKERYcy in The USUK & elsewhere and this along with The Rule By Banksters goes to the heart and core of OWS. It's why you're here, it's why I'm here as both of us have some kind of belief in DEMOCRACY. All the political terms under the sun can have their beliefs and misunderstandings but if we can keep 'Love' for ourselves, each other and this shared and beautiful world in our hearts & at the centre of our words, thoughts, intentions and deeds, then we The People, The 99% ... Can Overcome and prepare for the coming world we all going to have to share :

As long we are not overly dogmatic, keep our minds open and our hearts soft ... then the possibilities are endless. Idealism tempered by pragmatism can see us through if we give ourselves to 'Love', so ...

radix omnium malorum est cupiditas et - ommm mane padme hummm ....

[-] 0 points by nazihunter (215) 11 months ago

Well put. But you and I don't get it. We're too far left for a logical discussion. Funny how you can get statements like that when you have no affiliation, or haven't mentioned one. So, you get put to the left and then say the left is illogical. It's a neat trick. You tell someone who they are and then pigeonhole them. I could shoot a thousand holes in Rand's arguments An easy one is to ask one of these fools if they'd like to do away with lobbies-since lobbies are the exact opposite of free markets, they should answer quickly-but we never hear stuff like that from them do we?

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

''Capitalism has stopped "delivering the goods" for quite a while now, especially in its older bases (Europe, North America and Japan). Real wage stagnation, deepening wealth and income inequalities, unsustainable debt levels and export of jobs have been prevailing trends in those areas. The global crisis since 2007 only accelerated those trends. In response, more has happened than Keynesianism returning to challenge neoliberalism and critiques returning to challenge uncritical celebrations of capitalism.'' from :

Your comment made me chuckle 'nh' and without repeating myself, please may I refer you to my replies to DKAt & TD below. Solidarity @ you and @ #S17 ! Onwards & Upwards !! 'Cause what's the option ?!!!

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 1 points by nazihunter (215) 11 months ago

I'll read them. I plan to hit one of the major events as soon as time allows. I'd' like to ponder what they propose. Right now, my arguments are geared towards eliminate one party and there is no other. Then the field is open. Since we only have republican and republican-lite, it's pretty clear which one needs to go.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

With the entrenched, well funded Corporate Owned Parties with massive MSM back up, already in situ, then killing one head of The Duopoly Hydra is actually harder then it appears. The 99% are increasingly becoming aware of the right-wing, Democraps & bat-shit-crazy, Replicons and this needs to translate over time to True Pro-99%, Labor based Independents in every state and at every level. Also fyi :

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] -1 points by WSmith (2091) from Cornelius, OR 11 months ago

than not "then"

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Then I can do none other than add :

veritas vos liberabit ...

[-] -1 points by WSmith (2091) from Cornelius, OR 11 months ago

? ?

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

! ! All that then and than ; but Huey Long ? Well he's The Man !

~

''Ring the bells that still can ring

''Forget your perfect offering

''There is a crack, a crack in everything

''That's how the light gets in.''

~

fiat lux ...

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 11 months ago

Nit-picking for waht raeson?

[-] -1 points by WSmith (2091) from Cornelius, OR 11 months ago

pet peeve & pompous, pedantic, pontificating, phony, poke

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 11 months ago

Attack the content, by all means.

Phony pokes are passe.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 months ago

without government regulating ownership, private property means nothing

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

For 'democracy' to have any meaning, ''government'' must be as per Lincoln's dictum ''of the people, for the people, by the people''. When The Corporations are actually given the same ''inalienable'' rights as individuals, then nexus of Corporate Power, State Power and Military Power usurps democracy which remains merely as a fig leaf for the masses in who's name democracy and law and property rights was supposed to exist. Further, consider :

''Why are big, global U.S. corporations so unpatriotic? After all, they were created in the U.S.A., rose to immense profit because of the toil of American workers, are bailed out by American taxpayers whenever they’re in trouble, and are safeguarded abroad by the U.S. military.

''Yet these corporate goliaths work their tax lawyers overtime to escape U.S. taxes. Many pay less than you do in federal income taxes. Imagine corporations, like General Electric, have not paid federal income taxes on U.S. profits for years.

''Mega corporations have abandoned U.S. workers by entrenching “pull-down” trade agreements that make it easier than ever to ship jobs and whole industries to fascist and communist regimes abroad which keep their workers near serfdom. Remember, the U.S. has run large trade deficits for the past 30 years as a result of anti-American trade deals pushed by these global companies. These goliaths are pressing for the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a trade agreement that will further pull down our economy.

''Big U.S. corporations have long demanded a legal system where they are defined as “people,” so as to get all of our constitutional rights while they expand their privileged powers and immunities. Well, why don’t we measure them by the many patriotic standards that we apply to ourselves, the real American people.''. Also re. The Corporate, State, Judicial, Executive, Industrial, Military nexus, please consider :

fiat lux, fiat justitia, fiat pax ...

[-] 2 points by Revolutionary (267) 1 month ago

Governing is not a big job but what has to be done is to change the mindset of the humanity from profit earning to COUNT ON AND ENJOYING WORKING and HELPING which I believe the occupy movement shall be able to achieve.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by RobertHod (1) 11 months ago

Good post with good human perspective. Quite comprehensive too within its numerous accuracies. The one thing missing is humanity apprehending the methods of secrecy the elite use and covet in secrecy.

That secrecy renders the political system, no matter if it is capitalism or socialism, capable of fundamental tyranny.

To prove this out, research the northwest American indigenous people. They had the "potlatch", but their society was capitalist. What protected them was they knew exactly how the secrecy worked and could socially defeat it.

[-] -1 points by RobertHod (1) 11 months ago

Free speech can defeat secrecy.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

"We are poised between an old world that no longer works and a new one struggling to be born. Surrounded by centralized hierarchies on the one hand and predatory markets on the other, people around the world are searching for alternatives." (David Bollier - http://wealthofthecommons.org/ )

''The old world is one of concentrated economic power that hoards wealth; that creates corrupted and hierarchical governance to serve and further concentrate wealth through exploitation of people and the planet. People are experiencing the ravages of this global neoliberal economy in which the market reigns supreme and everything is a profit center, no matter the human and environmental costs.

''We are at a crossroads in the global economic order. If not stopped, the two massive "trade" agreements under negotiation at present, the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) and the Trans-Atlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (known as TAFTA), will cement this globalized neoliberal market economy through greater deregulation, profit protection and an extra-judicial trade tribunal in which corporations can sue sovereign nations if their laws interfere with profits.

''There is another way. We've reached a tipping point in awareness of the effects of the current global economy that has erupted in a worldwide revolt as we can see in the Occupy, Arab Spring, Idle No More and Indignado movements. People are searching for alternative ways of structuring the economy and society that are empowering and more just and sustainable. Part of this work includes understanding and building the "commons," which is the opposite of the predatory market economy.''

The above four paragraphs are excerpted and extracted from the following excellent article which I am strongly recommending to you 'RH' and all interested readers, especially in the light of #S17 :

per ardua as astra ...

[-] -1 points by RobertHod (1) 11 months ago

Understanding secrecy needs inclusion w/commons.

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

''Our Politicians Are Money Launderers Not Too Different from Tony Soprano'', by Bill Moyers :

''On August 23, 1971, a corporate lawyer named Lewis Powell – a board member of the death-dealing tobacco giant Philip Morris and a future Justice of the United States Supreme Court – sent a confidential memorandum to his friends at the U. S. Chamber of Commerce. We look back on it now as a call to arms for class war waged from the top down.

''Let’s recall the context: Big Business was being forced to clean up its act. It was bad enough to corporate interests that Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal had sustained its momentum through Harry Truman, Dwight Eisenhower, John Kennedy, and Lyndon Johnson. Suddenly this young lawyer named Ralph Nader arrived on the scene, arousing consumers with articles, speeches, and above all, an expose of the automobile industry, Unsafe at Any Speed. Young activists flocked to work with him on health, environmental, and economic concerns. Congress was moved to act. Even Republicans signed on. In l970 President Richard Nixon put his signature on the National Environmental Policy Act and named a White House Council to promote environmental quality. A few months later millions of Americans turned out for Earth Day. Nixon then agreed to the creation of the Environmental Protection Agency. Congress acted swiftly to pass tough new amendments to the Clean Air Act and the EPA announced the first air pollution standards. There were new regulations directed at lead paint and pesticides. Corporations were no longer getting away with murder.

''And Lewis Powell was shocked – shocked! – at what he called “an attack on the American free enterprise system.” Not just from a few “extremists of the left,” he said, but also from “perfectly respectable elements of society,” including the media, politicians, and leading intellectuals. Fight back, and fight back hard, he urged his compatriots. Build a movement. Set speakers loose across the country. Take on prominent institutions of public opinion – especially the universities, the media, and the courts. Keep television programs under “constant surveillance.” And above all, recognize that political power must be “assiduously (sic) cultivated; and that when necessary, it must be used aggressively and with determination” and “without embarrassment.”

''Powell imagined the U.S. Chamber of Commerce as a council of war. Since business executives had “little stomach for hard-nose contest with their critics” and “little skill in effective intellectual and philosophical debate,” they should create new think tanks, legal foundations, and front groups of every stripe. It would take years, but these groups could, he said, be aligned into a united front (that) would only come about through “careful long-range planning and implementation, in consistency of action over an indefinite period of years, in the scale of financing available only through joint effort, and in the political power available only through united action and united organizations.”

~

I excerpt and append the above as it expands on your point re. ''secrecy'' and further to the 'Daily Kos' link from an earlier reply to you, I submit a link to 'The Powell Memo' fyi :

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] -1 points by RobertHod (1) 11 months ago

A log of symptoms of secret dark deeds brings no knowledge of how the secrecy is created. Focus on that is the only effective action besides abolishing the current federal structure.

I do recognize powells dark deeds as pivotal though.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

''Do we really need politicians ? Can’t we cut out the useless middlemen and do it ourselves ? Professional politicians just pimp their services out to the highest bidder. & ...

''Today we call it 'representative democracy', but that’s just a euphemism (perhaps the most pervasive euphemism in history). It’s hard to understand how giving up the power to make the decisions that affect one’s life could be considered to be any kind of democracy. Even though the definitions have been changed, there is ample evidence to show that the ancients were correct, much of which has been chronicled on your site. And it’s an explanation that makes a lot of sense; rather than a secret conspiracy for world domination, maybe our problems are down to a deluded public repeatedly making the same mistakes.'' from :

Your comments have a cryptic quality despite your warnings about ''secrecy'' ironically but I find myself interested in your wider points and thoughts.

sub rosa !

[-] -2 points by RobertHod (1) 11 months ago

Secrecy enables corruption no matter what system. I do see your point about direct democracy. And logically that would be best if the people were educated with truth. We can democratically support the principles of the republic until that time, if we know the principles and are not distracted by party politics.

"though the definitions have been changed, there is ample evidence to show that the ancients were correct, much of which has been chronicled on your site. And it’s an explanation that makes a lot of sense; rather than a secret conspiracy for world domination, maybe our problems are down to a deluded public repeatedly making the same mistakes.''

That passage attempts to justify all or nothing thinking, which will not work.

If we could communicate without being divided, distracted and threatened by economic manipulations, we could define the dominant principle of the republic in unity which will do a lot of good. We can democratically support that until we get on the same page with direct democracy.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

You can rest assured that I'm not only ''not distracted by party politics'' in The U$A but am actively disdainful of the same. Economic, social and environmental justice for The 99% and a reclaiming democracy from The SCOTUS / 'Citizens United' demoCRAZY deMOCKERYcy are my interests. However, thanx for expanding on your prior replies and also fyi :

''While our government is laying off hundreds and hundreds of thousands and cutting services in the name of cutting deficits, a new report exposes that taxpayers are handing more than $1 trillion a year to the wealthiest.'' This level of deeply pathological selfish, larcenous and avaricious behaviour just must be exposed and opposed by anyone with even the most rudimentary moral compass.

radix omnium malorum est cupiditas ...

[-] -2 points by RobertHod (1) 11 months ago

Yes, gov caused the crash and now won't recognize the impacts on the people. What caused the crash is unconstitutional and what they are doing in relating to people is also.

I see no easy tactic for reversing citizens united. Also, the one logical approach appears to be a target for misinformation for about 50 years of media. The pressing issues of GATT & nafta as well as CU can only be dealt with by a constitutional convention.

Ironically, the 1% has been able to get people so confused that they are afraid of the one real tool for stopping this decline of humanity starting here.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

''The Looting of America'', by Andre Damon :

''The 400 richest people in America increased their wealth by 17 percent in 2013, with their collective hoard rising from $1.7 trillion to just over $2 trillion. The wealth of these 400 individuals is more than twice the amount necessary to cover the federal budget deficit, which is being used as the occasion for slashing Food Stamps, education, housing assistance, and health care programs.

''The redistribution of wealth is the product of a quite deliberate class policy, undertaken at the highest levels of the state, and spearheaded by the Obama administration. The financial elite has been given virtually unlimited sums of money, while wages and benefits for workers have been slashed and budget deficits have served as the occasion for demanding the closure of schools, mass layoffs of government workers and cuts in social services.

''The government’s commitment to providing cash to the financial oligarchy was once more re-emphasized Wednesday (9/18/13) with the announcement by the Federal Reserve that it would continue to pump $85 billion into the US economy, despite widespread expectations that the Fed would slow down its asset purchases. Stock markets once again hit record highs at the news.''

So you see 'RH' it's not by accident that The 99% are left with austerity, public infrastructure decay and penury - it's by design. I'd be interested in any expansion re. ''the one real tool for stopping this decline'' and also fyi :

ad iudicium ...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

Really a fine article. As always you post the good stuff shadz.

http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/18889-memo-to-washington-the-occupy-movement-lives

"More than 80 percent of voters disapprove of Congress, according to the same poll. Follow Occupy’s rhetoric and you win approval from most voters. Follow the Tea Party’s and you’re all but universally despised."


TWEET

DKAtoday ‏@DKAtoday

Memo to Washington: The Occupy Movement Lives http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/18889-memo-to-washington-the-occupy-movement-lives

HELL YEAH !!!

OWS 4 government 4 the PEOPLE.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Thanx and I have to bring these two audio files to your attention though they are separated by nearly 80 years for some deep insights into US Economic history and present reality - worth tweeting probably ;-)

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28452) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

Huey Long - so much has changed - yet some things not at all. Very familiar situation he was in.

[-] -1 points by RobertHod (1) 11 months ago

Yep, secret design. And, if we do not get adept at understanding how secrecy is made, which can so completely defraud us, it will get much worse.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Someone has voted down your comments in an attempt to demoralise you. Do not let them succeed 'RH' and persevere here and perhaps expand a little on your 'secrecy' theme maybe. Solidarity & fyi :

pax ...

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[-] 0 points by RobertHod (1) 11 months ago

The vote function is a feeble effort to empower unreason. It actually has no effect on reason:-)

Secrecy and fear go together. We have been made afraid by the roman church, of our unconscious existence. What is unconscious exceeds secret. Knowledge can be made unconscious, but the human still acts on it.

We used to have societies that had no written words. History was kept in the mind.

Rome advanced upon the people of western Europe to England, then the Druids organized the people using their unconscious minds. Within 70 years the Magna Carta, the predecessor to the American social contract had been made. Now, those dark forces of unknowing have infiltrated the American gov using the unconscious mind to create secrecy.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (2091) from Cornelius, OR 11 months ago

Yes.

Unite & Win!

TURNOUT 2014!!!

2010 never EVER again!

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Yes, ''Unite & Win'' but will Dems deliver for The 99% when they are so completely corporate captured and controlled ?!!! Can this fact be denied ?!! Is re-repeating past actions again and again and expecting different actions an indication of insanity OR desperation Or a lack of imagination ... or of all three ?!

A mass movement of pro-99% Independents and a Labor Based Workers party unifying all liberal, left, progressive elements has to be part of the long term answer for the future and looking past, through and beyond the next election cycle is essential for this.

What does it really say for the Democrats when they gerrymander such people as Cynthia McKinney and Dennis Kucinich out of Congress ? It says much, imo ! I draw a huge distinction from Dem voters and 'The Party Machine' btw & also consider :

Finally, some words from Albert Einstein from over 60 years ago :

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 1 points by WSmith (2091) from Cornelius, OR 11 months ago

Can any elected official/representative/politician do what is right & good when the electorate is brainwashed & disengaged and Big $ exploits it?

If we want justice (economic, social & legal) we have to use the democracy our Founding Fathers created for us to fight the tyranny we face today.

A little Huey would be good for these times, sans the god. Every man a King: http://www.knowla.org/audio-file/268/

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Huey Long from way back in the day !!! Extremely interesting 'how the worm turns' !! Thanx for this !

Also fyi, another audio file from an audiophile (moi!), I append & recommend :

From the last link, by Ellen Brown : ''Today, virtually the entire circulating money supply (M1, M2 and M3) consists of privately-created “bank credit” – money created on the books of banks in the form of loans. If this private credit system implodes, we will be without a money supply. One option would be to return to the system of government-issued money that was devised by the American colonists, revived by Abraham Lincoln during the Civil War, and used by other countries at various times and places around the world. Another option would be a system of publicly-owned state banks on the model of the Bank of North Dakota, leveraging the capital of the state backed by the revenues of the into public bank credit for the use of the local economy. Change happens historically in times of crisis, and we may be there again today.''

radix omnium malorum est cupiditas ...

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[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

''Occupy Wall Street - The revolution continues worldwide'' !

You know where I am mate but meditate upon the last word above !!

These are ''thoughts'' with which I agree and I refer you to the last para !!!

Re. ''natural law'' - well there are many of those ; those of the vulture or the hyena or the shark OR those of the bee, the bison and the beluga & we'll all need more deep 'Zen' and less ravenous 'Dog' perhaps :-)

There are posters on the forum from Australia, China, Canada, India, Ireland, Norway and many points in between because we are all spinning through The Universe, on the ass end of one of the spiral arms of a fairly average galaxy, on a beautiful blue green world, our common, wonderful and fragile .. shared home.

pax et lux ; nunc et semper ; hic et ubique ...

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 11 months ago

finem fraudem?

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

'Ending fraud' is one of OWS' raison d'etre right ?! So, consider :

verum ex absurdo ...

[-] 1 points by WSmith (2091) from Cornelius, OR 11 months ago
[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Great tune ! Greater band name - ''Sham 69'' & is that a prescient allusion to the state of the duopoly democrazy of U$ politics ?!! My kinda tune as I vacuum the house !!! Here's another from my all time favourite band in a similar vein - and also do dig the brass section And The Sentiments, once again !!!

Two and half minutes of perfectly produced, preachy, pugnacious, political, pure power pop ~}~

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 11 months ago

Ya, I'm all good with the Information Clearing House, thanks though.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Whachya like with an ICH + TED combo ?!! ~{;-)

finem fraudem nunc ...

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 11 months ago

No, but thanks. I will catch all of the necessary videos and articles from someone else and some place else.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Because ? I ask 'cause I'm curious like that ! Also fyi, with ''finem fraudem'' in mind, please see :

fiat lux et fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] -1 points by JohnSapartag (-3) 11 months ago

No one ever said the battle for the rights of the 99% was gonna be easy.

It sure isn't. The 1% are everywhere, even controlling this forum.