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Forum Post: Solidarity? Collectivism? Socialism? Money? Economy? What about Me?

Posted 1 year ago on Jan. 21, 2013, 4:23 p.m. EST by HCabret (-327)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Occupy is a flawed movement is many ways. "Occupiers" want thier way or the high way.

The problem is that people cant understand the fact that people are entitled to their own opinions and therefore will likely disagree with at least one other person on at least one topic.

Consensus-decision making is not a tool to make people think the same, it is supposed to be a check on the majority. If there is no consensus, then maybe there shouldnt be.

The goal shouldnt be unity or solidarity or re-distridution or equality. It should be innovation, improvement, creativity.

Think for yourself. Be yourself. and dont give in.

72 Comments

72 Comments


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[-] 3 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

You're very confused about this.

It is actually the corporate takeover that is saying "my way or the highway." And they're buying your government and you have no say.

Where's your voice in the current system?

The current system just doles out trillions to banks and corporations. Where's your voice on that issue? Do you have a say?

Where's your voice when JP Morgan finances campaigns and then gets 14 billion in subsidies? Do you have a say? Or when Goldman Sachs gets billions in bailouts after committing fraud and financing campaigns?

Where's your voice on the corporatism?

Where's your voice when corporations lobby to implement trade deals that allow them to fire American workers and replace them with Chinese and foreign slave labor? Where's their voice?

[-] 1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

I dont like any lobby, no matter what they are for or against.

The focus should not be on the fuctions of the economy, but on the functions of government.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

It should be on both. When talking about government the focus should be on the corporate takeover of government. Unless you get the big corps out of government, you're just going to replace a puppet with a puppet.

[-] 0 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

So why not suggest individual self-government, instead of a return to a previous state?

Getting coroporate infulence out of government has nothing to do with the functions of the economy.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

it definitely does. Look at monetary policy for example. That is literally based on dolling out trillions of dollars to banks and corporations that corrupt the government. We are propping up fraudulent banks instead of creating public banks. Getting the corporate influence out of government would be one of the greatest changes to the economy we would ever see.

[-] 1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Economy smishmonony.....

What does the functions of the economy, have to do with the functions of government and in particular my ability to directly govern myself?

Who cares who does and doesnt have money? I dont. I dont even really care how money I have.

We corrupt the government, we the people elect corrupt individuals to "represent" us in government, we fund the "corrupt" government and we refuse, generally, to do anything about it.

The people are the problem, not the banks.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Are you giving a million dollars to a presidential campaign and then getting picked to be head of the treasury? -what you're saying is not the same thing.

[-] 1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

That is why I am advocating for the abolition of representative government and the creation of a system of direct government.

Only I can represent myself. It is stupid to entrust someone else with something, I can and should do myself.

I dont care about the president or the treasury.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

how do you start that?

[-] 1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Stop paying taxes, stop going to work, stop paying back your student loans.

Action is best expressed when no one knows who is actioning.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

what about those who depend on work to provide for their families?

or those who depend on tax revenue for social security and medicare?

[-] 1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Ok I should be more specific. Stop funding the military and lawmaking bodies. Stop accepting income from others and become more self sufficient.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Yes but how. That is a very general approach. The only person I know doing that makes his living on green plants. I'm all for what you're saying, but I think the system needs reform for this to happen.

we already have an epidemic of people getting removed from homes.

[-] 1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Voluntary poverty doesn't mean you have to move to walden pond and live off of soy beans.

All it means is distancing one's self as much as possible from the unjust government.

Don't get a home loan in the first place. Don't let a bank even try to take your settlement in the first place.

The system int broken, it works exactly like it is supposed to. The system needs improvement as well as reform.

This is why I believe that gandhigiri is best done alone.

[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

I'm not giving in. Thanks so much.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28445) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Do we have another defeatist loose amongst us?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Same ol', same ol'.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28445) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Buy the way - did not mean to imply anything about anger management - if it sounded that way - I have to plead distraction as I was getting my non-strict veggie platter ready for dinner.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

lol. Ooohhh. What's a non strict veggie platter?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28445) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

5 meat pizza ..................... it has tomato sauce. oooops - tomato - considered fruit - well then really very unstrict veggie platter - Hey?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

oic. Yep, that's pretty non strict all right.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28445) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I think that it might have been near veggies when it was made.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Hey, in the near vicinity is good.

I'm not judging.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28445) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

GF - your too good to me. {:-]) I think I smelled an olive - DOH - fruit - a hint of green pepper - yeah - that's the ticket................

[-] 0 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Good to hear that someone else is an individual seperate from all others. That someone else has an opinion all to thier own and that they will stop at nothing to act to see thier vision become reality.

It is good to hear.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Yeah, solidarity.

[-] -1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Everyone should act the same. and by "same" I mean everyone should act differently.

Solidarity is for the betterment of the group at the expense of the individual.

If you disagree with the group, TOO BAD!!!!

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Bored, fucknut?

[-] -1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Fucknut? Anyone that disagrees with you is a fucknut?

Seriously????? undermybreathright back at yah

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

This is the very best argument that you could pull out of your ass? Seriously????? Yep, you are bored, fucknut-she said loudly.

[-] -1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

I am a fucknut. You are not. If that it the case, id rather be a fucknut.

the goal of a civil resister is the provoke a response. Response, successfully provoked-he said quietly. :)

[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Good damn thing you would rather be a fucknut. It works out fantastic for everyone. You lack critical thinking skills. It shows.

You aren't a civil resister.

[-] -1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Provoked response #2. If I lack critical thinking skills, then why keep repsonding?

I am proud of my ignorance, but the real question is, are you?

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Bring it on, sweet pea.

[-] 1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

I like you.!>!>!

[+] -4 points by auargent (-600) 1 year ago

girlfriday has a limited vocabulary.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

I have an extensive vocabulary. You just aren't worth it.

[-] -1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

the term 'fuck-nut' is a new one me. Quite creative actually.

[-] -2 points by auargent (-600) 1 year ago

she uses a variety of words like that and strings them together. she has it confused with a breakfast cereal.

[-] 1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Reduces the risk for heart disease!

[-] 1 points by romshes (1) 1 year ago

It is all about trust!

http://www.trustparency.com/

[-] -1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Why trust someone else to do something, that I can do just fine on my own? Like governing myself?

[-] 1 points by owsarmy (271) 1 year ago
[-] 0 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

What if I dont want a job? Will i be forced to work even if I choose not to?

[-] 1 points by owsarmy (271) 1 year ago

Nope.

[-] -1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

So why support the economy at all, if I dont want to work? Why care about it at all?

[-] 2 points by owsarmy (271) 1 year ago

Because we live in a society of millions of people who depend on the economy.? Without a healthy economy there would be chaos and danger even for you. You must think beyond yourself.

[-] -2 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

If everyone was self-sufficiant, the economy would be irrelevant.

Interdependance is killing self-hood. It is making us less able to care for ourselves and making us more and more dependant on others to do things we should be doing on our own for us.

People need to care forselves first and other second.

Having compassion for youself is having the only way to have compassion for others.

[-] 2 points by owsarmy (271) 1 year ago

We are stronger when we help each other. Strength in numbers. We are all in this together. United we stand.

We reject the selfish, greedy ideology of "you're on your own"

That is self destructive. UNITED states of America.

[-] -2 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Interdependence is a bad thing for the individual human mind; voluntary and anonymous charity is not.

I don't want to be forced to do something for the Greater Good or whatever.

The needs of the few, outweigh the needs of the many.

[-] 1 points by owsarmy (271) 1 year ago

Only in Star Trek movies

[-] 1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Captain Kirk has never steered me wrong before.. :)

Truth is truth, no matter who says it.

[-] 1 points by owsarmy (271) 1 year ago

But it ain't really true it's just hollywood

[-] 1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Truth is different for everyone......

Fact is absolute and there are very few facts.

[-] 1 points by owsarmy (271) 1 year ago

Very deep.

[-] 1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Indiana Jones said it first.... ;)

[-] 2 points by owsarmy (271) 1 year ago

He is the best. I heard H. Ford signed on to play Han Solo again.

[-] 1 points by gsw (2697) 1 year ago

That's a huge impossible if

We need balance because we are naturally interconnected

http://www.irnc.org/Recherches/Items/Economie/Documents/actes_Bhopal_Schwartzentruber.pdf

[-] 0 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

We are interconnected by choice, not because it the natural order of things.

[Deleted]

[-] 0 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Egalitarianism is a goal of inprovement; Equality before the law.

If we cannot critisice at free-will, the we lose our ability to think for ourselves.

I think the lofty goals of Occupy are admirable, I just want to help point it in the correct direction.

Freedom is the goal here, not equality. Freedom is the prereq to everything else.

[Deleted]

[-] 0 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

I dont want to be the same as anyone but myself.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

this is not a libertarian movement. we think for ourselves so don't come up in here telling us that the tools we use are no good when they are the very tools that make tptb tremble.

[-] 2 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

I understand that occupy is not a libertarian movement, but I am not advocating for it to be. "We" think for "ourselves". YOU ARENT THE BORG!!!!!

Occupy, i thought, was about the free exchange of ideas and opinions. I could be wrong though.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

perhaps that should be rephrased at this point to relevant ideas. not half baked libertarian quackery.

[-] 1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Libertarian? eh?

Did i say I want NO or LESS government? or BETTER government?

There is a difference.

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Do you have ideas to exchange?

First mission is the removal of corporate influence (money) on the political process.

Anything that helps that mission to fruition is welcome.

[-] 1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

There are far more underlying problems, than corporate money. It is not an easy fix.

the citizen's united supreme court case cant just be overturned willy-nilly. the constitution must be changed (at the very least) to define what exactly constitutes a "person".

unfortunatly, most people dont want such a definition. Pro-choice people dont want it because it would likely involve the banning of abortions. Corporations dont want it becuase it would decrease thier power.

It is easy to say, i want this and i want that, but it involves as many and diverse of opinions on the matter for it to even be considered.

In the interim, it is easy to just not pay taxes.

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

It's a focus. Whatever it takes.

Broadening the focus dilutes effectiveness.

Many small steps, my friend.

[-] 0 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Yes, but simply having the goal to cure cancer is not enough. You must have a plan to get there.

Getting rid of money in campaigns is all fine and dandy, but how do you plan on achieving this goal, and what can you do in the interim?

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Simply keep exposing fraudulent activity, and awakening more souls to the possibilities of government for the people, by the people.

It's what we all deserve. Do you agree?

If we sit back and allow criminals to pursue their own ends, our children will hate us forever.

[-] 0 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Action expresses priority. Exposion is not always enough.