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Forum Post: Seeds for the future.

Posted 1 year ago on March 22, 2013, 5:48 a.m. EST by Builder (4202)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I'm looking at the emergency seed banks, like this one in Norway, and wondering if they are enough to guarantee our future. http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=2126

101 Comments

101 Comments


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[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

24 varities 100% Heirloom, Non-Hybrid, Non-GMO seeds. 2 Acre Garden Bucket http://www.costco.com/Non-GMO-Garden-Seeds-2-gallon-Bucket-by-Food-for-Health.product.100018599.html

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Wow. That is impressive.

Coming from Costco, even more surprising.

Thanks for the link, QM.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

costco actually has a lot of nice deals and they treat their employees well.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Our Aldi chain is leaning more that way too.

The power of the purchasing dollar should never be under-estimated.

Good one Costco.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

aldi would be more viable if they had more organic food.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

They must be learning that lesson.

Our Aldi has sun-dried organic raisins, sultanas, and cranberries, as well as a range of trail-mix packs in bio-degradeable zip-lock packs.

They also do organic canned tomatoes, and authentic Italian pasta.

I'm a chronic label-reader. Shortly after the Chernobyl melt-down, our stores were flooded with products from that region, and I simply don't trust anything that comes from China.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

i just wanna build an autonomous sustainable eco village complete with zones for agricultural and manufacturing production, the arts, entertainment, dining, education, health services, spiritual and outdoor recreational activities, and of course commerce.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Take a look at this link. It might inpire you.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/15/spanish-robin-hood-sanchez-gordillo

After Franco's death in 1975, Marinaleda began struggling towards its own definition of freedom. Organising around a new trade union, a new workers' party, and with weekly mass meetings, the townspeople began occupying some of the land around the village, owned – and unused – by the Duke of Infantil. The police would arrest or evict them, and they'd start all over again. They blocked roads, broke into and shut down Malaga and Seville airports, marched on Madrid, and went on mass hunger strike. Sánchez Gordillo has been to jail seven times, and survived two assassination attempts by rightwing extremists.

After 12 years of persistent struggle, with 1992's Seville World Expo just round the corner and the regional authorities' resolve finally weakening, incredibly, they won, securing 1,200 hectares of the duke's land for their farming cooperative.

"Our union gathers people of many political stripes," Sánchez Gordillo explains, "but we carry the torch of anarchism's direct action." He cites 5,000 years of Andalusian struggle for land, and thinks for a moment. "Even the weekly assembly is direct action."

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

well there was an anarcho-syndicalist govt in power in spain before the fascists destroyed them

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Thanks, I didn't know that.

Reading about their struggle reminds me of the early days of occupy wall st.

I do know there's community and neighbourhood gardens (commons) popping up all over the place. It's a start.

[-] 2 points by itsmyblood (10) 1 year ago

The only seed bank that matters is the one you own. I recommend several seed banks including a seed bank of medicinal plants, a seed bank of fruit trees and bushes, a seed bank of grains, a seed bank of vegetables, a seed bank of plants and trees for use as fiber and wood.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

It's the storage of the seeds that matters.

Under the permafrost (I wonder what they call it now that it's melting?) the temperature is constant, and cold enough to keep seeds for a long time.

At ambient temperatures, a lot of our food seeds become unviable after three years.

[-] 2 points by Maggie22 (107) 1 year ago

Depends on what happens to the planet and population I suppose. How many of us actually know how, when, and where to plant anything?

[-] -2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

If you're planning on stockpiling any seeds, then also get a good reference book with that information and keep it with your seeds.

[-] 1 points by Maggie22 (107) 1 year ago

Now you're on the path of becoming a "Prepper". If you live and work in a city is my next step to get some guns so some land can be taken to plant the seeds?

[-] -2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

I don't know if that's the right path, using a gun and taking land by force. I'm not really a 'Prepper,' but if I was in the financial position to do so, I would move out of the city onto some acreage. And stockpiling some supplies is always a good idea if you have the resources, regardless of whether you think shit's gonna hit the fan, because you never know, even a natural disaster can take you by surprise. So it's always a smart idea to be prepared for an emergency.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (25009) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Be Prepared - good motto.

[-] -2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

I just wish I were in a financial position to do more. Right now, I would be caught completely off-guard if something happened soon, like a collapse of the power grid. I'm working on it though, so hopefully things will improve soon. But as you know, I haven't been having too good a luck in the 'making money' department lately.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (25009) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

You are not alone in that -

[ haven't been having too good a luck in the 'making money' department lately. ]

Good thing that when the shit well and truly hits the fan - that money will be worthless.

I expect that you have some handy tools and know how to use them.

[-] -3 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Oh yeah, I have a ton of tools and know how to use them all. I can even cut a fairly straight line with a handsaw on a good day. ;-)

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (25009) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Those straight lines get better with practice. {:-]) With any luck at all though - perhaps we can fix society before it collapses.

[-] -3 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Yes they do. And there have been times that I couldn't afford power tools and had to do everything by hand (just like the 'good old days!'). So I've had a lot of practice.

As far as fixing society before it collapses, well, that's a huge repair project. Basically a gut rehab really. But I hold out hope we can get it done before the storm causes the outside walls to collapse.

[-] 4 points by DKAtoday (25009) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Something to work for - while at the same time being prepared for failure.

[-] -2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Yes.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

You mean these things don't just grow?

Just kidding. I'm in a seed-saver's network in Australia, and I advise all people all around the world to do the same.

We really don't want corporations owning our right to grow our own food.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Wow, I didn't see this before, builder. You are a busy man.

Hey, I was going to ask you about certain fruits & vegis that pick up more toxins than others. I saw a video I think it was ... anyway the point was that Soft Skin Fruit was penetrated by ambient toxins or heavy metals. Not sure if that is a hard & fast rule, the Produce has to be identified I guess. Will look for video:

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Okay, I would be interested.

I tasted some organic apples the other day that were so full of flavour, I couldn't believe the difference from the usual fruit we get. The main issue with commercial growing is, the picking is either mechanical, or the pickers just pick everything, and it ends up in cold storage until the prices are good, and then it can be further cold-stored, because they have older stock to get rid of.

Wouldn't it be so much better to walk through a neighbourhood co-operative food garden, and pick what is in season?

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

I haven't found it yet... But here is one I am Listening to now. The intro is History of Rockefellers Oil Empire Creating a Food Cartel with Cargil & others. And I just heard that Henry Kissinger was a Rockefeller Creation?

http://mdrtalk.org/seeds.mp3 http://mdrtalk.org/seeds.ram (Audio Only)

Seeds of Destruction - Controlling Food and Populations

Beginning in the mid-20th century, the Rockefellers spearheaded creation of a cartel of oil, chemical and grain companies that today controls most of the world's food supply. They did so by fostering large scale corporate farming which relies on gas powered equipment, the intensive use of petrochemical fertilizers and, more recently, genetically modified seeds.

The effort to control food production was in some respects connected with a Rockefeller led effort to promote eugenics, now called population control. As part of this effort, the Rockefellers financed German eugenics research before World War II and encouraged the sterilization of poor women.

Our guest is William Engdahl, author of Seeds of Destruction. His other books include A Century of War on the crucial role of oil in warfare since 1900 and Full Spectrum Dominance on how the United States and its allies have projected power globally since the end of the Cold War.

First broadcast on WPKN 89.5 FM, Bridgeport, CT and WPKM 88.7 FM, Montauk, NY, on April 4, 2010. Duration approx. 29 min.

Handy Link to discussion on GMO Potatoes on Rats, which shrank the brains of the rats... (about 17:30 minutes into it)

Henry Kissinger's Plan for Population Control starts about 18:40 Minutes in.

American Eugenics Society Starts about 20:30 Minutes in.

Eugenics Program in Puerto Rica 35% of women sterilized about 21:50 minutes in.

Spermicidal Corn about 24 minutes in.

Agribusiness Model, vertical integration (monopolies), formerly Illegal, Shareholder Value, Low Nutrition is not a factor (obesity), about 25 minutes in.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Thanks. I'll bookmark it.

Easter Sunday here. Happy Ishtar to you and yours.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

May fortune be upon you.

[-] 1 points by Maggie22 (107) 1 year ago

The people with the knowledge will own the food, but ownership might not be relevant. If it comes down to survival it may not matter who holds legal title.

Again it depends on the disaster as well as who lives or dies. Storing away seeds seems a useless activity if no one alive knows what to do with them.

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

The problem with that seed bank is it's partly funded by the Gates Foundation and the Rockefellers. In other words, Builder, those seeds aren't for us. They're for THEM.

[-] 4 points by Fiona4ever (2) 1 year ago

Seeds may become as valuable as gold. It makes sense to have them, but make sure they are heirloom seeds.

http://www.saltspringseeds.com/

Why heirloom seeds?

http://www.care2.com/greenliving/why-buy-heirloom-plants-seeds.html

http://robbwolf.com/2011/04/07/why-heirloom-seeds-veggies-matter/

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Absolutely. I would encourage everyone to stockpile their own heirloom seeds.

Good link. Natural News also has a good selection, based on your budget:

http://store.naturalnews.com/Garden-Seeds_c_52.html

ybd

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Now that is a worry.

Our local seed bank is run by aging hippies, and most certainly has no backing by the oligarchs.

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

That's the way to go. I would encourage more 'regular' people to do the same. If funds permit, I'm considering buying some from either the Natural News site or that site in Fiona4ever's comment.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

This is the one I use, and the seeds are heirloom seeds, meaning they can produce more seeds for the next crop.

http://www.seedsavers.net/lsn/maleny-seed-savers

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Got 'er bookmarked as well. Thanks, Builder.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

I just opened some sunflower seeds dated good till July 2013... they tasted like chemicals or mothballs.... Well, I remember they were cheap 1-2 months ago. No value I guess.

They are printed made in the USA.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

A lot of seeds you buy in packets are coated with fungicides to stop them germinating in the packet.

It's a bit of a worry. I just planted a heap of "telegraph pole" peas that were coated up like that. I soaked them overnight like I always do, and that got rid of all that nasty chemical shite.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Muchos Gracias, amigo. Sounds very anchored in reality.

damn shopping at Lidol, Penny Mart, & Aldi.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

If you're in doubt about seeds, boil them up for a minute, and toss the water away. Most seeds will handle it no problemo, and that gets rid of any coating the seeds might have.

It also gets the seeds ready for planting. Just don't boil them for more than a minute.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Si. no problemo. Muchas Grasias. Simple solution is best. I think I will remember such a simple technique. Thanks.

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

What's alarming is the fact that "from 1903 to 1983, only 80 short years, a whopping 93% of seed varieties have been lost to industrialized agriculture:"

http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/93-of-seed-varieties-lost-in-80-years/

"What the infographic does not detail is the further encroachment to seed variety that genetically modified foods have caused from 1983 to the present day."

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Rat-cunning bastards, aren't they?

There's a few hundred potato varieties still up in the Andes that I'd like to try for myself.

I think the term "biodiversity" scares the shit outta these control freaks.

Would be nice to get inside their refrigerators, and jump out with a cape and goggles on, when they wake up in the morning.

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Yeah, that was an eye-opener when I came across it. If this keeps up, I envision a world-wide version of the Irish Potato Famine happening sometime in the future.

"Jump out of their refrigerator in the morning." heheheh. Funny, but I sometimes fantasize about far more drastic things happening to some of those folks. I think they all need some kind of serious 'wake-up call.'

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

FWW, I had a dream about a world of rubble, everyone was part of a work gang assisgned to pick up boards, bricks, and building scraps, .... there was no food anywhere, ... just rubble and lines of people walking like zombies ... no cars, no water, no electric, ... I found a knife and no one noticed, but I dropped it into a crack so that I wouldn't be caught by the guards.

And as you trundle over the rubble, you turn corners around ruins that all looked bombed out by something, ... but there was no burned wood or any sign how the buildings were destroyed to a ground without roads or concrete or plants. As you rounded corners you keep walking so you look like you are part of a work detail.

And no matter where you walked people were in lines like refugees or worker crews. and no matter how far you went ... there were always more ruins around the corner and always more people that would see you. Without food, without family, without shelter ... without escape.

You keep moving because you know they will kill you if you quit. You keep moving because you know there are too many people to feed. you know it is just endurance at this point that will save you for a few days. So you keep moving... all you have is your clothes.

The world is forever changed. People and Rubble. No Food. Only zombies.

[-] -2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Your dream sounds a lot like Europe just after WWII. I saw an excellent movie recently, in German with subtitles, that looked a lot like what you describe. Let's hope we never have to actually experience it.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yes, that make me think of one now too.

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I had this dream where the infrastructure was all stiil pretty much in place, but I was aware that we were kind of under seige, or in a seige mentality.

I was outside doing something with hand tools to a vehicle, and this alarm sounded off in the distance. I knew I didn't have time to make it back inside a building, so I had to get in the vehicle and close the doors and windows. It was like a people transporter, with lots of seats and windows.

The sky started going dark, and this gaseous cloud started moving in. I somehow knew this cloud was deadly poisonous.

Then I woke up, wondering what all that was about.

Strange how the subconscious works at times.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Wheatgrass is strange if I think of the mineral or element basis of organic life. I guess this is organic-biology. everything can be broken down to nuclear components. Minerals and amino acids come to mind. And this fad about Macrobiotics or maybe I mean Macronutrients seems to promise more info and knowledge.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

This is verbatim from the following link. When they say "complete food" that means you can thrive on it. Whole food, on the other hand, is sufficient for keeping you healthy.

http://www.amorganics.com/experts-say-wheatgrass-is-green-blood-a/161.htm

It is claimed that wheatgrass juice is a complete food. It is called the green blood in our bodies because it is full of oxygen due to its liquid state and is easily absorbed by the body.

According to the experts, wheatgrass aids in blood purification, liver detoxification, and colon cleansing. It is a good source of vitamin C; vitamin B. vitamin A, and vitamin E. It contains calcium, phosphorus, magnesium, alkaline minerals, potassium, zinc, boron, and molybdenum. It is antioxidant, alkaline-forming, and has amino acids, chlorophyll, and enzymes.

Wheatgrass deodorizes and removes unpleasant odors wherever it is applied. It is an excellent remedy for anemia and other blood disorders. It is an anti-cancer and assists in breaking down toxic molecules in the body. It is anti-aging as it fights free radicals and protects skin cells from ultraviolet radiation when applied on the skin.

Researchers have found that wheatgrass infuses oxygen into the blood, thus improving the body’s immune system.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

really appreaciate the quotes here. It makes the reading so much more brief to me. My generation has some much to learn if we don't have kids to challenge us and we aren't in college or university.

You may be talking about the biggest high tech of the decade if it can mean cheap, healthy survival for generations of immigrants, the middle class, .... or the poor that live on little money in the deep city.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Surprisingly, coeliacs have no problem drinking it either. No gluten.

I grew mine in shallow baking trays, on pretty poor sandy soil. You get two goes at cutting it, then you turn it upside down and it makes a great mulch cover for your vege plot.

Oh, and it's probably the cheapest complete food/ intense vitamin mineral supplement out there. I'd recommend growing your own, rather than powder or pill form.

The grain needs to be soaked overnight before sprouting, and the water from this soak is full of lactobaccillus bacteria, which can be used as a drink, or used to make seed cheese, or seed yoghurt. Really useful.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

You might be the person to ask... I bought some kit for a family member to start sprouting... but there is a risk of fungus or bacteria.

I might be a little neurotic ... but how do we keep from having problems with bacteria that will make us sick from sprouting or kitchen hydroponics?

Seems the sprouting kits give you everything you need, but you still have to be careful not to poison yourself. There doesn't seem to be any huge risk from sprouting wheat in your kitchen and growing it ... but perhaps we must soak our seeds or roots ... then allow for draining ... but do this like every eight hours with the right kid of nutrients to help them grow ... but watch out for closed systems since the air must circulate around the leaves and to some degree around the roots...? I'm sure I saw fungus or mold on a project when I was a kid....

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

If you live in a very hot climate, mold might be an issue. I just get large jars for sprouting, and wrap some mesh over the lid with a large rubber band like you get from the post office. Rinse these twice a day, soaking for a few minutes for larger seeds, and draining on an angle in the draining rack.

Never really heard of, nor had any, issues with mold of fungii on sprouts. Usually they are ready in one or two nights. They don't need to be any further along that just cracking open, and the first growth visible. This is when the nutritional value is at its highest.

That doesn't apply to wheatgrass, of course, which takes about a week. Buckwheat lettuce and watercress also take a while, but it's best to grow them on soil anyway.

I really don't have any advice for you, as I've never heard of anyone having issues like what you mention.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Well maybe it was just fear. Maybe all I need to know is that sprouting can be toxic, but usually isn't an issue at all. Maybe the answer is that you rinse twice a day, and in a couple of days you have your first sprouts.

I tend to believe and trust the sprouts in restaurants and grocers. Normally I would trust the projects for growing that I would start. But ... the sprouting kits come with warnings in the USA. And we have had problems with commercial produce have e. coli or some other problem. I suppose all you need to do really is make sure you buy or use clean soil. They probably label the soil as clean soil anyway....

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Yeah, the warnings. Some are very funny.

It stems from the growning desire to sue the pants of anyone for anything.

Like warnings on match books. "Contents may cause fire". heheheheheheh.

You'll know it if sprouts are starting to get stale, but remember, they are a live food, so you can always give them a good rinse, and then drain them, and they will start to grow again.

[-] 1 points by Renneye (4004) 1 year ago

Heheheh...you're reading my mind Builder! I was just about to ask you if you knew whether it had gluten in it. I'm picking some of this stuff up in the morning at my favourite health food store...it sounds incredible! Thanks a bunch!!

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Some of your specialty juice making shops will have it fresh, Renneye. Always better fresh. And you're most welcome, of course.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yes, I don't want to say too much about my own life in reference to this dream of mine. Symbolism. As I understand it, I should take the symbolism and see how it fits my inner self. Clearly a dream like mine would indicate some disorder.

Your dream may not be a warning or life or death situation.... Being far from home may play a big part here for you. The home often symbolizes our soul or inner self. Perhaps you are contemplating a change in life or circumstance which might pull you away from your soul or ... your home ... where you are comfortable.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I had a recurring theme dream (different locations, same theme) where I was running late for a flight, and either the taxi didn't turn up, or my car broke down, or my bags weren't packed. And always, the clock showed 7.20.

It worried me for ages.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

I've had a series of institutional dreams I call them. For instance often I am in a building like a school or in College. I understand the one where I have to climb up and feel dizzy or weak ... that one might be kind of fear of moving into a higher state of living, ... or that I might be holding myself back. Sometimes there is even a force like gravity that seems to be pulling me back. Haven't had those for a while. That was a rockey time in my life looking back.

But numbers completely escape me. I don't know times or numbers at all. 7 is a kind of biblical number as a good omen I think. I might be tempted to say to Trust 7 as a higher sign of you being ready to rise to the next higher level....

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Your dreams are bringing back memories of my own dreams.

Rather incredible how our minds work, really. Synapses firing and searching the random access memory. I used to think everyone had an imagination as vivid as mine. Apparently many people my age and older dream in monochrome.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Might as well tell you one of the dreams where I felt pulled down was in a Tram, like an alpine Tram, Funicular, that was like in A Clint Eastwood movie or something. So I was inside the top shack and the hole in the middle of the floor was wide open. I felt weak and it was pulling me down toward the hole where presumably I would fall down a mountain somewhere. But about 6 foot up was a ledge like a storage place or a place to sleep or something. And that is a recurring theme, a ledge within reach but too weak to pull myself up.

The Tram is a funny vehicle since you can only go so high up in it. I suppose drugs and alcohol are like that. maybe a lot of instant pleasure in life is like that. You go so far, but it take something else to reach higher. Ethics, Knowledge, physical strength, discipline, mentoring, wisdom ....

But as a kid I didn't really have good dreams or interesting dreams.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I had a series of dreams where I was climbing a staircase, or at times, a rocky path, and the further up I went, the more rickety the stairs, or more dangerous the rock climb. I'd reach a point where I could neither go up, nor down.

Thankfully, I've also had dreams like those, where I've simply stepped off the edge and flown like a bird. Those other times though, were pretty scary.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (25009) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I have - to my knowledge - never gone sleep walking. Though I have had many a vivid and weird dream.


[-] 2 points by Builder (3681) 4 minutes ago

LOL. I've done plenty of sleepwalking as well, so the mind sometimes takes the chariot for a stroll. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

I guess I haven't flown in dreams for a while. Maybe I should be honest with myself about that and what it means. I haven't been exercising and that is part of the physical confindence that helps you to fly in your dreams.

I first remember flying in my dreams clearly after I met someone that said he had a Shaman Grandfather. Sometimes flying was very strange ... like I grabbed onto a 3 liter bottle of soda and flew holding on to it like a fishing lure and even caught up with some ducks I think. And I think I flew under some bridges in different dreams as a fisherman and under fishing lines. Once I flew along a road as a kind of car face first going over the road in the air.

But I had some spiritual training with the use of my hands. So often I flew with a sense of my own lack of power or power, but often control my flight with my hands. There is a message underneath about discipline and strength. Strength through exercise seems to help in many areas in life. And clearly your confidence shows in your dreams or ... at least for some of us in the population.

My Shaman friend ... he was a heavy drinker, but he also exercised almost daily.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I had these "jump up and try and stay up" dreams for a while. And then the absolutely effortless soaring like an eagle dreams as well. Maybe one is testing the waters, and the other is my mind saying that I've hit a really high point?

I'm one to lay there in the dark thinking about my dreams. What they might be trying to tell me.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (25009) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Funny the trips the sleeping mind will take.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

LOL. I've done plenty of sleepwalking as well, so the mind sometimes takes the chariot for a stroll.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (25009) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

LOL - Kodachrome to give us the nice bright colors the dreams of summer think all of the words in a sunny day...OH Yah.......

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Well, let me back up I worked with a woman one night who I had met several times and was doing a dream group or research project. She made it simple in that everything in the dream was you and where you were was your house/soul.

So you meet people usually that are an aspect of you. You can ask what message they have for you and this ... makes sense in the process of asking what it means symbolically to you.

In the same way you can ask I am dreaming of my house what does it mean to me? How does your house look. What does it say about me if my house looks like this. This is my soul or this is me... how do I look.

I thought these were simple and powerful paradigms.

I really didn't have eagle soaring dreams ... I sort o glided when I had enough power to get free and go high. But often I ran out of energy (of course I'm not vegan, I eat anything, drink anything) Maybe if I was less overweight and ate better meals or more vegi meals I might have Soared like an Eagle????

I guess I am describing a typical experience for me in dreaming in the 1990s.... Yeah, I could see it. Jump up and stay up makes sense to me.... kind of my experience.

I should add that my Shaman Friend would run 5 miles in the morning every morning normally. maybe I am overweight. maybe the freeing of the body has a critical factor in eating and body weight, ... and Running... or Swimming.

(Sorry ran out of room below)

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I've given people on this forum a sketchy outline of me that seems to be quite elastic at times. I've only given up smoking heavily about fourteen months ago. I do still eat everything, though I'm leaning towards a primal diet, and while I've dabbled in esoteric teachings, live food diets, and self-sufficiency, I'm not unlike most westerners in many ways. Though I won't touch anything aspartame or "low-fat". And I'd shun a burger from micky D's. Drink lots of beer, and the occasional red wine.

I'm actually 12 kilos above my usual weight, which is still pretty low, but at fifty, I'm conscious of how I used to look and feel, as opposed to how I look now.

What I'm saying is, our physical being really shouldn't impose itself on who or what we are in our dream state. Could you possibly ask your friend about that concept for me?

I once had a series of dreams where I'd be out in public and realise that I was naked from the waist down. Apparently these dreams are quite common amongst pubescent children, and males in particular.

Our brains are such active, and seemingly independent entities. We like to think we are in the pilot's seat, but I often doubt that premise. More likely that "we" are the face the brain puts up for public viewing, to allow it to get on with what it's doing in the background. Or something. I'm just a tradesman with an overactive hard drive, and a seemingly endless random access memory.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

I'd like to put this back on us. If you will stay with me for a couple of weeks... I'd like to suggest that I and possibly you too ... spend some time in mediation at different times, like 3 times a day for 7 days, ... to test the proof of spirit.

You know we can join together in the name of Jesus or holy spirit or ... even the master mind ... and where two or more are gathered in my name (even the master mind), and if we set goals first, then ask the master mind for answers, then come back to a group of people from 2-5 people (3 is better minimum) ... the answers actually come to us.

I would like to try a long distance test ... let me get on schedule a little, maybe I'll 1) State the goals and the question 2) Ask for help from spirit 3) State out loud that I believe the spirit will answer my question or request for help within 5 days.

Sound like a good test to me, but ... my standards might be low. I think it is a spiritual test. I don't know if morning, noon, afternoon, evening, or late evening is a good time for this kind of mediation.

Plus you are in a different time zone.

The thing with the master mind is just organization. If you repeat the questions and look for the answers ... there is a big mind out there (or spirit) that helps you get the answer.... But normally you need a group 3-5 people to hear your request, hear you questions, hear your belief, and hear your acceptance of the answer to the request... and you have to listen to your partners in the group because their idea may be great.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Well, time permitting, I'm up for experiments.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Lets get Quantumystic to join the group or Renneye to form the questions, form the belief, and form the expectation of an answer. Could be you're are the best one to form the question, the request, and your personal goals for all purposes here. But feed back is important and ideas are important....

It sounds like we are asking specific questions about Builder:

1) Will Builder be Optimal in dream flying through Physical Exercise
2) Will Builder be Optimal in dream flying through Exclusion of minimal animal fats
3) Will Builder be Optimal in dream flying through abstinence of alcohol
4) Will Builder be Optimal in dream flying if when drinking alcohol hard exercise like running or swimming is used to offset the stress
5) Will builder improve Spiritual Practice with less meat & fat
6) Will Builder improve spiritual Practice if steady moderate exercise is kept

You get the idea... we don't have to do this in public exactly.... there are probably chat rooms.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Eerrrm. I'm gonna need some practise runs to just get back into meditating. See what you can arrange from your end. Renneye sounds like a very cool character, BTW.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

For what it is worth, I found the eight steps to Master Mind Consciousness. They seem new to me now. These steps were a kind of technology in fellowship 20 years ago. Just add your problem statement into the eight steps...

I Found the Eight Steps into the Master Mind Consciousness:

1) I surrender: I admit that, of myself, I am powerless to solver my problems, powerless to improve my life. I need help.

2) I Believe: I now come to believe that a power greater than myself - the infinite creative intelligence - the Master Mind - is responding to me in a personal way.

3) I Understand: I now realize that erroneous self-defeating thinking is the cause of my problems, failures, unhappiness and fears. I am ready to have my belief system completely altered so my life can be transformed.

4) I Decide: I make a decision to turn my life over to the care of the Master Mind, Surrendering my will and false beliefs. I ask to be changed at depth.

5) I forgive: I forgive myself for all mistakes I have made. I also forgive and release everyone who has a Injured or harmed me in any way.
6) I Ask: I now make my specific requests to the mastermind and my partners.
7) Gratefully Accepting: I joyously accept and give thanks believing that the miracle-working power of the Master Mind has responded to my every need.
8)Dedication and Covenant, I now have a covenant in which it is agreed that the mastermind shall supply with an abundance of all things necessary to live a success-filled and happy life.
I dedicated myself to be of maximum service to god and those around me, to live in a manner that will set the highest example for others to follow, and to remain an open channel of god's will.
I go forth with a spirit of enthusiasm, excitement and expectancy.
I am at peace.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Well, the great thing is ... the process is kind of off the top of the head. You don't need to practice mediation at all. It is a kind of "when two people gather in my name kind of thing"... of course I need to consider others... I cant just sleep in and be unfocused.

And if I try to look at the question morning, noon, afternoon, evening, etc ... works better if you sleep, wake, and rise at specific times... I mean that we meet like once a week, but I should follow the charter by trying to pray or look at the questions 3 times a day to keep them in mind.... I think there is study out there that says that schedules help the brain or mind to work at learning...

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Okay. I'll look into it a bit later.

Monday morning here, and I really need to actually build something this week.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Actually, we have probably gone through the whole process already by putting our minds to it. What comes to me is that you might be one of us that does better with moderate exercise like your work. We should avoid heavy meal which take days to digest through our 20 something feet of intestines. Vegis probably keep you light on your toes and don't disturb sleep. Also wonder if the stomach muscle tone or strength is needed for balance and maybe this is where the center of our power really is... just something I remember from a couple of dreams.

Late add: my shaman friend ate Asian food as it was his background and he married a culture that used a lot of garlic, red pepper, rice, even raw garlic. Food may play a part in dream flying. Who knows what we get from diet in terms of energy. As you have written about wheatgrass juice.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

From my readings of wheatgrass, it is basically identical to human blood, except for the central nucleus, which is magnesium in wheatgrass, and iron in our blood. All the surrounding molecules are even set up in the same chains as our blood.

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

There are a few good ones. To really capture what it was like, you have to see the ones filmed on location right after the war, before a lot of the cleanup (which took years). The amount of destruction is mind-boggling for those of us far too young to have experienced it.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yes, this one was American staring a real soldier sergeant with an East Coast accent I think. Stout guy. He and a younger guy talked with a couple of German women and shared some chocolat and cigarettes... The younger guy got hooked on one woman and wanted to marry her. The woman would pick through the rubble to see what organization was going on in the city. later they would come back, or one of them would say where the other had gone to.

The sergeant would try to talk the younger guy out of the marriage idea. Times were tough. Don't make it tougher. Turned out to be some kind of tragedy, double tragedy. I think one of the woman got killed ... then maybe the young guy died. Very Bleak. Interesting because the sergeant was really talking like a soldier and it was set in Germany and really sounded like German Women. Kind of a time piece...

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

The one I saw was told thru the eyes of a young boy. It turned out to be a tragedy too, because the kid wound up committing suicide by jumping off a building at the end. He had caused the death of his grandfather and couldn't live with it. There were a lot of truths in that one, young girls prostituting themselves, people selling their few possessions for food, the black market, the 'cadaver trucks' that were picking up the dead. A great movie, but I can't remember the name.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

I'm sure some of the buildings in Germany and around Europe still have bullet holes in them from WWII.

Did you ever hear that the Germans still have houses under ground and factories underground as they were hidden from Air Strikes. I met a guy that married a German woman and her father lived in a hidden house or camouflage house.

And there are stories if you read novels of underground factories for missiles or weapons being built by slave labor. Read one story this year about a camp located near an underground bunker which was supposed to hold a Nazi dooms day device to kill as many people in the world as possible if the Nazis were to lose the war. One idea was that Nazis had dug up corpses in France that had died from the Spanish Flue ... that was so deadly to weaponize it.

Of course there is a foreign language video out there that shows Nazis that the US had recruited to form a secret army after the war to mount a resistance to communist Russia if it Invaded Europe. And there are stories of how we recruited German Experts in Operation Paper Clip to bring back to the US to bring their work to our Laboratories. We were interested in weapons and rockets. And we were looking at chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons ... mustard gas was used in WWI and peace treaties prevented using it again. But the spectrum of weapons is so broad... even microwave, rayguns and laser weapons.

Good stuff for spy novels and James Bond Movies. But maybe this is the Military World we live in Today. China can shoot down Satelites. North Korea has detonated Nuks.

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

It's amazing the amount of underground facilities, tunnels, warehouses, etc. all over Europe, some dating back hundreds of years. Europe has a rich and fascinating history. And I have heard about Operation Paperclip but didn't hear about a secret army formed to fight the Soviets, but have heard a little about Operation Gladio, which might be related. It's also a good thing we defeated the Nazis when we did, because had it gone on another year or more, the outcome could have been very different considering all the advanced weaponry they had in the pipeline that was never completed.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Good link thanks. The hard part is language since it changes so much in just 150 years.... that is where I got the Viking thing.

Here's what ask.com has to say about the ethnic origins of Russians:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080904061926AAO2CcH

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

I'm pretty sure there's Viking blood involved in there somewhere, probably thru the Finns

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yes, it is related to the operation you are thinking of Gladio. There is a long video out there in English Subtitles ... starts out very slow with a big long opening. Black and White. They interview an old Nazi officer that was recruited. Found it.

Operation Gladio - BBC Timewatch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXavNe81XdQ (BBC very old footage, but with subtitles where you hear the original language)

About 9 minutes in Europe Armies seem to be hearing that there is a Boshivik threat.
10 minutes in they start interview with old OSS Agent. Who talks about the start of Recruiting Fascists.
18 minutes in they interview a former Deputy Director of CIA.
20:30 minute there is an agreement not to prosecute right wing assets.
21:30 minutes is the part about Clouse Barbi, wanted for murder, Colonel Gunter Bernau, German MI Stutgart. General Clouse Houser, Doctor Glumpki,

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Cool, MA. I'll be sure to check it out. There sure is a whole lot about the postwar period we didn't learn about in school.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yes, I've seen some of the ruins in Europe, but I'm tired of embarrassing myself around Europeans. I think you mentioned Roman Ruins, and there are baths all over Europe. I think there is an old Roman Wall in France like a mini border made of stone (or it is old anyway). And then Megaliths and stuff older than 2000 years ago. There is a cave in France with caveman art on the walls. You know there are people in Ukraine Related to people in Czech Republic and Poland. And I'm still trying to figure out where Russian people come from ... I think they are Tartars and part Vikings with blood from the Silk Road...

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

I haven't had the chance to visit Europe yet, but would jump at the chance, as long as I didn't have to rush it. I'd like to spend at least a couple months there. I'm a big fan of history, art and architecture, and Europe is chock full of all three. And like most Americans, my roots are from there so I'd like to check that out as well.

Here's what ask.com has to say about the ethnic origins of Russians:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080904061926AAO2CcH

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

My downvote post got banned. Aparently "someone" is keeping track of things here.

But it looks like I cleared my -300 hurdle fairly easily. Lost over 40 points in less than 5 hrs :)

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Congratulations. Glad I could help, heheheh. At least you can maintain a good attitude about it, like Odin did when it happened to him. Someone must have complained to the admins about your post, but surprisingly, Builder's stinkle club post is still going strong. That's strange. And as soon as I had words with V he disappeared from the forum again and went right back to his massive one-man downvoting campaign. I think Builder's right, that boy has serious mental issues.

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

This crazy greed-driven system called crony crapitalism is all about monopolising everything. And I do mean everything.

[-] -3 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Yep, which is why one of my mantras is 'stop feeding the beast.' I do everything in my power to do so. No credit cards, no outstanding loans, minimal consumerism, economical vehicle, etc.

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Yes, I'm off to the local grower's market. When you taste fruit that is left on the tree to ripen, you'll never go back to the mall for food again.

Our largest supermarket chain advertises themselves as the "fresh food people". They were exposed for market manipulation and keeping apples in cold storage for ten months.

They also have a national pricing policy, which means everyone gets screwed over equally.

[+] -4 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Farmer's markets are the way to go. We have one here, 'Soulard's Market' that has been in existence since 1841. Technically, since 1779 as a flat field that farmers could go to and sell their wares, then the first actual building was erected in 1841, but was destroyed in the "Great Cyclone (tornado actually) of 1896." It was replaced in 1929 and been in going strong ever since.