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Forum Post: r>g Why this may be the most important equation you’ve ever seen.

Posted 2 months ago on June 18, 2014, 8:32 a.m. EST by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

This is the first time I’ve copied an article completely and it’s from Forbes, go figure, but you guys should read this, then stop playing around with bullshit third parties and start taking effective action to remove the GOP from power before it’s too late, if it’s not already…

“According to French economist Thomas Piketty, there’s a simple equation to explain the rise in wealth inequality in the United States:r > g. The rate of return for owned capital (r) exceeds the overall rate of economic growth (g). Thus, families and individuals who control wealth will accumulate it at a faster rate than the economy can produce it and so will control a much larger portion of the economic pie. The rich get proportionally richer, and the poor get proportionally poorer. And unless something happens to alter the status quo, this trend will continue. Piketty’s provocative message, shared in his new book, Capital in the Twenty-First Century, as well as in a review article published Thursday to Science, comes amidst growing concern over wealth and income inequality.

Two-thirds of Americans, comprised of majorities of Democrats, Republicans, and Independents, are dissatisfied with wealth and income distribution in the U.S. Currently, the richest 10% control 71% of wealth and take home 48% of income. While the former value isn’t unprecedented, the latter is, and when it’s accompanied with the expected widening in the gap of r > gover the coming decades, we can expect to see the top 10% control more wealth than ever before.

(Figure above: The large drop in rate of return (r) in the early-mid 1900s coincided with the massive destruction wrought by World Wars I & II) Piketty arrived at his conclusion with the aid of researchers from around the globe, particularly economists Anthony Atkinson of the University of Oxford and Emmanuel Saez of the University of California, Berkeley. Together they accumulated a wealth of data the likes of which economics has scarcely seen: tax records for twenty countries dating back to the early 1900s. When assembled into a database, the information allowed Piketty and his colleagues a groundbreaking view of income and wealth inequality. “Until the Piketty revolution swept through the field, most of what we knew about income and wealth inequality came from surveys, in which randomly chosen households are asked to fill in a questionnaire, and their answers are tallied up to produce a statistical portrait of the whole,” Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman noted in his review of Piketty’s book. But, he added, those surveys are limited in scope. “They tend to undercount or miss entirely the income that accrues to the handful of individuals at the very top of the income scale. They also have limited historical depth. Even US survey data only take us to 1947.”

Other economists respect Piketty’s attempt to gather massive amounts of empirical data, but question whether or not it grants a complete picture. Kevin Hassett of the American Enterprise Institute contends that Piketty’s tax data leaves out the billions of dollars given out by the federal government via programs like Medicare and income support. Garett Jones, an associate professor of economics at George Mason University argues that r won’t outstrip g as Piketty predicts. “There’s no inherent tendency for capital to outpace the economy forever.” Piketty disagrees, offering a more pessimistic outlook. As population growth slows, economic growth will stagnate with it, he says, leading to more inequality. This, in turn, allows the wealthy to exact more control of democracy through monetary contributions. But the data reveals a path for the trend in wealth inequality to slow or reverse. Piketty recommends reinstating high tax rates on upper level incomes and increasing inheritance taxes. “When top tax rates were high from 1933 to 1980, bottom 99% incomes grew fast while top 1% incomes grew slowly. In contrast, after 1980, when top tax rates were low, bottom 99% incomes grew slowly while top 1% incomes grew fast.” But, he acknowledges that his ideas likely won’t be instituted anytime soon.

“In democracies, policies reflect society’s view. Therefore, the ultimate driver of inequality and policy might well be social norms regarding fairness of the distribution of income and wealth.” Whether or not you agree with Piketty’s policy recommendations, you have to respect his work to bring empiricism back to economics, a “science” too often full of political propaganda and devoid of data.”

This article was first published at RealClearScience. Source: Thomas Piketty and Emmanuel Saez. “Inequality in the long run.” Science 23 MAY 2014 • VOL 344 ISSUE 6186

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rosspomeroy/2014/05/27/is-wealth-inequality-the-future-of-capitalism/

full text here:

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/344/6186/838.full

144 Comments

144 Comments


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[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

We subsidize Wealth Inequality

That - is - "only" - because - we - the American people - care so much for our poor wealthy.

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2142) 1 month ago

We were brainwashed to believe wealthy tax cuts would trickledown, and convinced that each of us are on the verge of becoming wealthy (& enjoy the subsidies/tax cuts)

It's why we fight. Get the govt back, switch the tax system around.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

No we were lied to and told that the tax cuts would be for those who needed them - instead the wealthy got the tax cuts and the needy got shafted.

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2142) 1 month ago

Well, we (99%) are wakin up now like the wife who walks in on the adulterous husband.

& he (trickle downers) says "Who ya' gonna believe? Me? Or your lyin eyes?"

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

lol - and out comes the shotgun.......................

The 99 and then-some % - need to wake-up and get movin - NOW - as the house is on fire and is burning down!!!!!!!!!!!!

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2142) 1 month ago

Agreed

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

When someone finally has had all of the abuse and then some that they can take - well - it can get real ugly - real fast.

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2142) 1 month ago

I say either enough middle class suburbanites will finally realize the threat and join the fight, or enough will become lower class and be unable to ignore the threat or fight.

Either way we win, except if they become lower class then that means the suffering of the lowest class will become acute.

So, much better to wake up that middle class.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

I already am below the statistical poverty line. I would rather win peacefully healthily and prosperously - for ALL - but it looks as though the insane assholes are trying to make the major portion of the population have to kill them to see healthy sane change growth - for ALL of the survivors.

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2142) 1 month ago

I'm afraid you may be right.

I certainly prefer peace

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

Peace and good fellowship - with time to stop and appreciate life. To hell with the f'n rat "race" to the graveyard.

[-] 0 points by 99nproud (2142) 1 month ago

I'm with you. No rat race for me.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

I do not understand how we ever got into the position of buying into that more and more and more faster and faster and faster with less time off was ever a good or even necessary thing.

It boggles the mind.

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2142) 1 month ago

The worship of money, & stigmatization of lack of money.

Re education, & reprioritizing our lives is required.

[-] 2 points by umbrarchist (4) 1 month ago

What percentage of high school graduates knew what NET WORTH was over the last 50 years? I don't even know if my high school had an accounting course back then. Tuition there is now $10,000 and the two accounting courses are electives though 4 years of English Lit are still required.

Our schools are designed to just produce good worker/consumers if that.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 1 month ago

The wealthy living within our boraders become ever more warry of the masses.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 months ago

''Thomas Piketty & Elizabeth Warren discuss why the rich get richer and the rest get shafted'' ..

radix omnium malorum est cupiditas ...

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 months ago

The effect described in the post is reffered as a "tipping point" we are also at a tipping point for climate I think, if we don't do something these things could really get out of hand, or at least I think so, I suspect a lot of us feel that way.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 months ago

Yes, many tipping points face us now - as we are all collectively fast approaching .. 'a quickening to a reckoning' and further to the above links, re.''r>g'' and Thomas Piketty - I also append & recommend :

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 months ago

I do wish people could see this for what it is, the assentation of Monarchy! I get push back for using such language from my more educated kin, but I believe they underestimate the power of effective words.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 months ago

''What the 1% Don't Want You to Know'', by Bill Moyers :

''Economist Paul Krugman explains how the United States is becoming an oligarchy - the very system our founders revolted against.'' - says Bill Moyers as he talks to Paul Krugman about Thomas Piketty's new book, ''Capital In The Twenty-First Century'' :

So, in all honesty, ''monarchy'' or ''oligarchy'' - or plutocracy or kleptocracy or Corporatocracy .. what's in a word ?! They're the 0.01% Parasite Class & The 1% are their lackeys, stooges and useful idiots !! We Are The 99% so, 'Whose Streets ? Our Streets & All Day, All Week - Occupy Wall Street' !!! Also fyi ...

per aspera ad astra ...

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by turbocharger (1192) 2 months ago

I think the tipping point in terms of the environment was when the political leaders who claimed to support the environment all voted to move our factories to zero regulation countries, and the people still voted for them- and continue to do so to this day.

We consume most of the world's junk, but its all made in other countries. Out of sight out of mind, just like good little Americans.

So far in last we think we are in first... Ignorance is bliss.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 months ago

'Tipping Points' exist and manifest in nature on many levels, eg. environmental, ecological and economic. Just with reference to the latter on this Thomas Piketty related thread, I append fyi :

Thanx for your thought provoking reply and ... IF ''Ignorance is bliss'' -

Then only for a wee while, 'til it comes back to bite us on the behind,

The Universe Balances Itself ... BUT ain't Karma a righteous bitch ?!

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2142) 1 month ago

Retire pols who support policies that serve the oligarchs.

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/24847-should-we-serve-the-economy-or-should-the-economy-serve-us

Easy, peezy

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2142) 1 month ago

Economic inequality (thread topic) tipping point- 1980/Reagan/trickle down?

Current bit on Ec Ineq:

http://uspolitics.einnews.com/column/212659504/elizabeth-warren-pope-francis-and-adam-smith

[-] 1 points by turbocharger (1192) 1 month ago

Because clearly as the entire world blew its self to shit for the people in power during WWI and WWII there wasnt a horrible inequality problem.

Without equality of say, forget about the money. The money problem is the symptom of something much larger, and we are all guilty.

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2142) 1 month ago

1980 tipping point I refer to was specific to our current situation, & represents the beginning of the end of a process against workers that began after new deal progressive change.

Inequity has always existed. My comment was meant to explain how policies since 1980 must be undone..

WW not withstanding

[-] 0 points by turbocharger (1192) 1 month ago

Incredible how after all of humanity some pick 1980 as a starting point.

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2142) 1 month ago

Who did that? I specified "beginning of the endof a process against workers that began after new deal progressive change". Not a starting point but an acceleration of an ongoing attack on workers that began decades before.

It is what it is. We can't change these realities. only fight them.

Certainly debating "starting points" is an obvious distraction from that fight.

Break up corps, raise taxes on wealthy, cut taxes for workers.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 1 month ago

talking about wealth inequality and effective action that could be taken to address it sure gets the karma kicked out of you on this site, of course if slaming libera;s is your cup of tea you're golden. You need to watch what you say.

[-] 0 points by 99nproud (2142) 1 month ago

You're right. But the points don't matter, & I gotta keep this issue up top as often as possible.

Ontopic Wisconsin info

http://www.cows.org/pulling-apart-focus-on-wisconsins-1

important issue/thread

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 1 month ago

looks like there has been a hack into the system hard to say

[-] 2 points by gsw (2687) 2 months ago

With so many unemployed and underemployed, what can we do to boost wages?

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 months ago

What can we do? Well first off work our butts off to throw the GOP from office where-ever and when-ever they run. Trying to affect public policy to slow the rate that the rich get richer is near impossible when dealing with a member of the GOP. As things move even more in the direction of the wealthy those that defend their interest, the GOP, will have to become ever more extreme, given reality throwing the GOP from office should not be hard really we just have to stop beating up on people that can help us get the job done and focus on the real problem.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

[ Edited a lot ] Stop all trade with slave shop nations - lets make it at home like we used to and demand that any nation that wants access to our market needs to pay it's workers a LIVING WAGE and must be environmentally responsible and treat all of it's citizens humanely.

We don't need to introduce capitalism to anyone - everyone already believes in money - what we need to introduce - IS - the fair and healthy distribution of wealth throughout a Society/nation - starting right here at home.

The above for one step in the right direction - bring manufacturing home - BUT - make it clean as it has never been before.

To boost wages - the average workers quality of life - I think that top end limits of income need to be placed and above that point the excess goes into society as funds for say universal health care and education.

If the very top is limited as to what they can take out of any business - then - it stands to reason that run away inequality as well as inflation will be ended.

Just as we need a living bottom end wage - we need a sane limit at the top.

If we can not tie the worst income to rise just as much as the top income and make that worst income livable - well then nothing will get better.

???

I think elf said it better the other day.

[-] 2 points by Shule (1696) 2 months ago

How about first stopping all that "quantitative easing" directed at only one sector of our economy?

If there is going to be "quantitative easing" then let it be "helicopter money" for everybody.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

Shift it to where it should have gone in the 1st place = implementing clean energy in a huge public works public infrastructure and industry upgrade - think of what 85 billion a month placed into putting people to work would do for the economy - work with a real Living Wage - cleaning up industry and transportation - entering the 21st century.

[-] 2 points by Shule (1696) 2 months ago

Yes, why don't they? I never understood that part.

Why did they bail out the banks instead of the people who got their homes foreclosed on? The people would have been saved, and the banks would have ended up with the money anyway. I suppose the banks wanted to have the houses too...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

Insanity in action - no - Insanity inaction - no - in action - no - inaction - it's totally insane!!!

[-] 2 points by Shule (1696) 2 months ago

Maybe there is too much crack-cocaine floating around on Wall Street.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

Too much performance powder - scuse - rock? How else to best feed their insanity - um - Drive?

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

Who needs a psychic or a fortune teller these days? If you want to know the shape of things to come,all ya gotta do is take a trip to Detroit and look around.There it is-the future in store for the whole country,courtesy of The Captains of Industry and The Children of Fortune. .Capitalism has very scant use for us,so the Capitalists are leaving a big ol' mess behind without a care for anyone left alive.The Children of Fortune are apparently planning on ruling over a country which has been turned into a combination gigantic whorehouse/open air drug supermarket/casino/debris field.Watching all of this develop for the last 30 years has been very depressing.But another world is possible.There is no doubt in my mind that a better world is possible.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 months ago

It really is not hard to understand, people a thousand years ago were not so much different than people today, for most of time people were ruled by Monarchy and Monarchy has been restored to many of the areas that have been trying out different forms the past few centuries. People think that monarchy means crowns and thrones but that's just window dressings what matters is ruling from birth if you haven't seen it take a look at Born rich

If you have an interest in understanding the current plan of the ruling elite here it is in a nutshell:

  1. Equate money with freedom.

  2. Prevent the "Government” from impacting freedom as defined by the use of money. (screw individual freedoms like who to marry or when to have children, but keep the guns out there helps getting people to pay for prisons and monarchs always need lots of prisons)

  3. Transfer all important decisions to those that control the money.

  4. Eliminate the Death Tax.

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

Agreed.The situation is not hard to understand.I try my best to study and understand history,where the activities of The Children of Fortune loom large.I do believe the the bigger they are,the harder they fall.I have seen Born Rich.There are many interesting characters among The Children of Fortune,including the young man who made the film.Thank you for your well considered response.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

In compliment: https://occupywallst.org/forum/paul-street-on-clinton-dead-broke-clintons-it-was-/

DEAD BROKE = HAH She wouldn't know what to do with being truly Dead Broke!

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

I hate Hillary.I can't vote for her because she is a dirtbag.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

Stated very well. She is another in office with those weird wide open and blankly staring " runaway Bride Eyes" = a tad bit insane.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

Psychopath."We came,we conquered,he died...HAHAHAHA."And look at how horrible it was,what happened to Quaddafi.Now they want to install known CIA asset Akmed Chalabbi into Iraq.The douchebags.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

YEP = The douchebags.

They are scrambling because there seems to be no resistance that is even wanted to be offered against this new group that is gobbling up ground as fast as they can travel - and - without massive carpet bombing to clear the way.

One has got to wonder - if this new group is so bad - why are they meeting absolutely no resistance.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

Well,they were trained by Americans.There is no way these trainers did not know that low morale was going to damage the ability of the troops to function.So did they tell anyone?Or did they just say "Whatever.These people are disfunctional and can't fight.We did what we were told to do.We are not gonna leak the information to the press because we don't wanna end up like Manning.By the time it all comes down all of us will be well out of the way.Time to declare mission accomplished so we can gtf outta here."This is what happens when nobody cares to listen to the noncommisioned officers.AKA clusterfuck.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

I dunknow - seems like there were plenty ( natives ) during the training process that were quite willing and happy to attack and kill their trainers. The trainers? Well likely they felt much the same as most of the regular troops who were sent there = WTF are we doing here? This has nothing to do with creating a healthy stable peaceful and prosperous society. Taking into account not their training up of the homeland military civil authority - but looking at the whole situation in general.

Like the adage goes - you just had to be there = to understand ( to see ).

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

If they feel their service was a total waste of time,that would explain why they don't have a word to say about anything.The mission was a failure.That was already clear.So why would anybody care about anything other than getting out in order to get into something that might succeed?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

Also goes to explain the massive number of Vets that are committing suicide. Not just because of what happened to them physically that they survived and not just because of the sorry state of affairs that they came home to - but to seeing the operation intimately ( being the ones made to carry out the orders ) and so being able to read between the lines and SEE the reality of why they were sent there = oil and corp(se)oRat interests.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

You can't send Death to somebody else's house.Because it is wrong.And it will come right back.I am sure nobody thought Death would come back in the form of an epidemic of suicides.I did not know at the time how the Death we sent to other people's houses would come back-only that it would.What a buzzkill.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (888) from Waterville, NY 0 minutes ago

When people know there is no accountability they just do whatever.I think that is called impunity.Impunity opens the way for behavior that is completely uninhibited.I think the worst nightmare of all is the unleashing of death squads.Death squads can't really operate without impunity.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[ EDIT x 2 ] Hhmmmmm = "they just do whatever.I think that is called impunity.Impunity opens the way for behavior that is completely uninhibited"

Isn't that kind of like a hitting rock bottom addict's feeling about the need to remain high? Do whatever it takes as "I don't care as long as I am High"

Sick however one wants to look at it though - Hey?

EDIT -> More candidates for the fantasy island vacation - ummm - Perk?

2) Update - considering the level of delusion displayed by the prospective vacationers - Fantasy Island is actually Fictional Island - does not exist - plane lands on the water - door is opened - and the flight attendent directs the "vacationers" out the door and into the water. Any momentary complaints? Flight attendent gives a very bright and cheerful smile - and says - ya just gotta believe - then closes the door ( after imparting a gentle push - if required ).

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

Yes,they are operating in the same way as too big fail,too special to jail.To the Island of Naked Mania with all of them.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (888) from Waterville, NY 0 minutes ago

Cowboys.They are making a classic boneheaded blunder.Underestimating the capabilities of their adversaries.They don't understand their adversaries.They don't understand themselves.They don't know whose interest they serve.If they think they are serving the interests of the American people,they are the biggest Suckers in the history of the world.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Happens when one is willfully blind to realities? ( cause and effect ) ( action and reaction ) fairly basic stuff.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

When people know there is no accountability they just do whatever.I think that is called impunity.Impunity opens the way for behavior that is completely uninhibited.I think the worst nightmare of all is the unleashing of death squads.Death squads can't really operate without impunity.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (888) from Waterville, NY 0 minutes ago

The usual.Cruel and shortsighted policies that are guaranteed to deliver completely horrible results through unforseen ramifications.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

The truly monstrous thing - is - that those who make the decision to pursue these actions - are - not - blind to the reality of the crime - nor to the result = Damning America in the eyes of much of the world ( all except those doing the same or are in favor of the program ).

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

Cowboys.They are making a classic boneheaded blunder.Underestimating the capabilities of their adversaries.They don't understand their adversaries.They don't understand themselves.They don't know whose interest they serve.If they think they are serving the interests of the American people,they are the biggest Suckers in the history of the world.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (879) from Waterville, NY 0 minutes ago

Drones alone can't deliver full spectrum dominance.What they can deliver is whole countries populated by millions of people who hate America and Americans.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Yep = indiscriminate killing of the guilty ( ? ) as well as MANY ( many many more innocent ) innocent - all in one action. Indifferent to the killing and the terror inflicted on masses and masses of innocent people.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

The usual.Cruel and shortsighted policies that are guaranteed to deliver completely horrible results through unforseen ramifications.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (879) from Waterville, NY 0 minutes ago

The thing that bothers me is that the general population is so insulated from all of the pain that comes out of these wars.Just a tiny fraction of the American population has to take the weight.It is very unfair,and Sun Tsu spoke about the unsoundness of exempting parts of the populace from the hardships of waging war.The architects of the disaster have all read The Art of War.It's almost like they set out to ignore the entire text point by point.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

And now - what do we have - killing by remote - send in the drones - the operator is removed from the reality of the act by virtue of a TV screen - they go home at the end of the day pop open a frosty and watch the ball game or have a bar-b-q.

Only those who are actually there - on the actual ground - only those see and live through the atrocities. And there is not one damned thing that they can do about it.

Meantime - back at home the public is being told that we scored another victory over terrorism.

Ever notice that Vets show up in support of protests? The Public at large should take note.

[-] 4 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

Drones alone can't deliver full spectrum dominance.What they can deliver is whole countries populated by millions of people who hate America and Americans.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

If one can not feel good about themselves and their service - it can literally kill one. Yep - and seeing the indiscriminate killing of innocents and know that you are a part ( representative ) of the force used to cause such - well - how shity would a person with an actual soul and a desire to do good - FEEL ?

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

The thing that bothers me is that the general population is so insulated from all of the pain that comes out of these wars.Just a tiny fraction of the American population has to take the weight.It is very unfair,and Sun Tsu spoke about the unsoundness of exempting parts of the populace from the hardships of waging war.The architects of the disaster have all read The Art of War.It's almost like they set out to ignore the entire text point by point.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 months ago

it was thinking like that, that gave us W Bush....

If Warren runs then get off the bench and get in the game, whoever can keep the GOP from the White House and control of the Court in the end is what matters.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

Elizabeth Warren! Now yer talkin'! Unfortunately if the Banksters can't buy her off,or scare her off,she will probably end up the victim of a mysterious plane crash like Senator Wellstone,or shot down like the Kennedys.I personally do not believe that the kind of change we need will come from Americans going to the polls,but I would definatly vote for a ticket of Warren/Sanders OR Sanders/Warren.From my keyboard to God's monitor.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 1 month ago

I don't think it will come from Americans going to the guns, so I'm still hoping there is cause for hope and pulling for the polls, if folks were told the truth the GOP would be dead and then I expect we could get some stuff done.

If you're looking for heros, you shouldn't be.

The only hero is humanity.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 1 month ago

Here's where it starts;This is OUR neighborhood,how can we make it better-for everybody.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

[ edit ] Problem still remaining - all of the neck anchors in the senate and congress - the pres and vice pres can not make positive change happen - while the rest of government is set on taking us under and drowning us.

edit-> ooops - sorry - forgot to mention the neck anchors acting in the stupreme corp(se)

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

The Elites love paralysis in legislatures.They love a Stacked Court.We currently have no means whatever for Redress of our Grievances.With a Supreme Court like the one we have,we are all out of options.Eventually everyone is going to end up standing around staring into space,as happened when the Soviet Union expired.Only there is no suggestion that Americans are as prepared to cope as the Russians were.And the Russians were not very prepared at all.At this point,even if Americans seized the entire wealth of the 1%,it still would not be enough to to stop a total collapse.I guess Americans didn't get the memo-"When you're in the Hole,the first thing to do is...STOP DIGGING."

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

Will a completely disorganized group of desperate people go after Elites-or turn on each other?

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

[ edit ] A disorganized mob will go after everything in sight - so - the depraved might well be safe in their gated communities/bunkers - then - again - there are likely to be some who are not so disorganized....either way - dark days approach.

The wealthy should refrain from saying things - like - let em eat cake or twinkies or other inflammatory/condescending things. So - Mittens? - you might wanna be hard to find - you condescending dismissive bastard.

edit-> The thing is though - the longer a situation builds and the longer that there is a singular cause for the wide spread misery of the masses - the less essentially disorganized the rioting mobs become - as the focus of their anger will have had plenty of time to get burned into the subconscious as well as the conscious mind. Targets of wealth will be sought. Even wealthy targets of those who were not depraved and abusive. The mob will not likely be very discerning.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

I often wonder what Americans would do if the Corporate State declared Martial Law.Americans don't seem to be well endowed in the Backbone department,but then I thought the Iraqis wouldn't fight back hard and I was way wrong about that.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (1007) from Waterville, NY 0 minutes ago

"He who rides the Tiger dares not dismount."-Ancient Chinese Proverb

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

And so we have many visibly ( or it should be visible anyway ) applying super glue to their asses. One day - will Boner & Bitch & Mittens & Rubio & Can't-or & Bitchelle & Ayn Ryan & Charlie & Davie & Dick & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & all find themselves in a group of heads all sitting on pikes and wondering = what happened?

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

"I wonder what kind of Mood the Tiger is in today?"

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (1007) from Waterville, NY 0 minutes ago

I have always thought a Lunatic Tea Party firearm enthusiast might somehow be provoked by the FBI until they run amok,starting a chain of events that leads to a generalized conflagration.I would like to travel around the country a bit,to see if I could form an impression of What Kind of Mood people are in.Around here-decidedly surly.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Everywhere = decidedly surly - well except as presented by lame stream media ( lets just work real hard on denying reality - and it will just go away ).

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

"He who rides the Tiger dares not dismount."-Ancient Chinese Proverb

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

In the past - in America - things have come to the point of boiling over - have in the past come close to the boiler exploding - and in the past there were some wiser heads that stepped forward and prevailed in such calming ( pressure releasing ) moves as child labor laws etc etc etc etc as well as major fuck-up clean-up as like the public works programs following the great depression. These current times? Huh - the fuckers ( TPTB ) seem dead set on letting ( CAUSING ) the boiler explode.

We will see - soon - if any wiser heads will prevail this time around.

BTW - the fighting/violence never stopped in Iraq - it just went underground as they could ( can not ) not fight openly.

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

I have always thought a Lunatic Tea Party firearm enthusiast might somehow be provoked by the FBI until they run amok,starting a chain of events that leads to a generalized conflagration.I would like to travel around the country a bit,to see if I could form an impression of What Kind of Mood people are in.Around here-decidedly surly.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 months ago

She bungled this or was attempting to talk about something apparently no one is allowed to talk about the special treatment cap gains and div gets under the tax system, I don't know if the media or money people told her to shut up about that stuff but it has been diverted to this personal attack, classic right wing and 1% tactic, but really hard to believe she is Bill's wife with a off the cuff like that, I do still content had it been her instead of Obama in '08 bankers would have seen time, if for no other reason than she would have had to prove how tough she was being a woman and all.....

[-] 2 points by turbocharger (1192) 2 months ago

wow

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 1 month ago

I was just talking to DK, it all seems pretty obvious to me I don't really see the "wow" but, thanks???

[-] 2 points by turbocharger (1192) 1 month ago

"it been her instead of Obama in '08 bankers would have seen time, if for no other reason than she would have had to prove how tough she was being a woman and all....."

I don't think HC is too worried about proving her toughness to the general population, she's a bit above that at this point. She's one of em.

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[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 1 month ago

good read thanks for the link

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2142) 4 weeks ago

No prob. Good to have real info on the forum.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (893) 2 months ago

this model is based on a slowing in populations growth

though the growth of the economy is also link to the available world resources

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 months ago

I don't have a phd in this field so would you like to explain futher?

[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (893) 2 months ago

continuous growth is not possible

the rate is just a skimming device for property owners is not necessary for the economy to function

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 months ago

What "rate" do you refer to?

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (893) 2 months ago

money interest rate loaning

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 months ago

The lending of money is the method by which the modern Monarch rules.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 months ago

How does that relate to r>g? The r is not rate of interest in this function.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (893) 2 months ago

The rate of return for owned capital (r) exceeds the overall rate of economic growth (g).

a loan is made to invest in economic growth

if that growth is less than the interest

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 months ago

I am pretty sure we both agree that a loan is made to make profit and almost always to the benefit of the lender.

Here the writer is speaking of ROI (return on investment) and it's r (rate of increase) which now exceeds overall growth of the economy this means that the extra must come from those that do the work.

As the investments are inherited the new Royals will demand more and more, it is in the nature of things. You cannot escape this by simply not borrowing money, it goes far beyond that.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (893) 1 month ago

how does the economy produce any money of its own ?

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 1 month ago

life consumes and creates

people work; value is added and so on...

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (893) 1 month ago

yes but money can only increase by creating more money

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 1 month ago

That is like saying ice cream can only be increased by making more ice cream, while true I am not certain it is informative.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (893) 1 month ago

it is a negative exponential game

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 4 weeks ago

the Sun consumes itself, plants consume the waste

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 1 month ago

some claim that the consumption of the earth creates progress

life consumes life it has always been so

[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (893) 1 month ago

plants consume sunlight

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[-] 0 points by turbocharger (1192) 2 months ago

So the economy is growing at 2%, and if their return is higher than that, it means something is off?

Thats one of the dumbest equations I have ever seen, it makes no sense at all. Economies that are booming grow at 4%. The stock market on average will get you 10%.

Where on earth did this come from?

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

Here's an equation for ya:We<r FuCkd.

[-] 1 points by Shule (1696) 2 months ago

Looks like something off the Periodic table. We and Fu are radioactive heavy metals I'm sure.

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

Sorry about the lameness of the joke,You are right to call me on it,I am radioactive,but I try not to let it destroy the circus-like atmosphere around here,

[-] 2 points by Shule (1696) 2 months ago

I liked the joke.

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

LOI-I will try to keep up.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

Soon to be universal descriptors? Radioactive as in We & Fu - commonly expressed as "We r Fucked - ( see also = screwed - non wood working nor mechanical use reference ).

[-] 1 points by Shule (1696) 2 months ago

Are you implying We = Fu (cked). that r is now a mathematical operator having the same meaning as "=" ? Now this is starting to sound like that post grad calc class I took years ago. How about We = %$#@&*^%?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

I don't know - I mean - it is pretty straight forward and all - if one were to take and compare it - to say - the sense that quantitative easing makes = very very very bad thinking and a much worse actual practice. But then again - you do make a valid observation. Unless this equality of symbols is explained as part of this disciplines ( modern economics ) many peculiar oddities and falsehoods.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

We being less than r - so sad as that is a common belief/practice = people less worth than monetary return - HUH - so fucked - so fucking SAD!

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

The Wall Street crowd just throw themselves on the floor and starts weeping hysterically and they get immediate Munnycopters.If we do stuff like that everybody calls us assholes.Go figure.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

It just ain't fair I tells ya - guess I should have taken-up a career in spoiled brat white collar crime - Hey?

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

They are in need of a checkup from the neckup.They are afraid that someone will someday surpass their greedy kleptomania.Those fears are unfounded.They are the worst people who have ever lived,or who will ever live.From my keyboard to Gawd's ear.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

No wonder mental health care takes such a beating ( universal health care in general ) - Hey? The greedy are afraid that they might get the help/attention they need/require = rubber room isolation from society until healed.

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

They need helicopters of psychiatric meds,not limitless loads of money.They are maniacs.You don't let people in the grip of mania have money.Everybody knows that.Maybe if we gave them guns they would run amok and kill each other.Problem solved.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

Maybe if we gave them guns they would run amok and kill each other.Problem solved

Well as long as we send them on vacation to fantasy ( isolated ) island 1st ( prior to arming them ). Then let em have at it!

Between bouts of rampaging murder they could spend some time building sand castles - and dare ( deny ? ) the tide to rise.

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

I can see it.Hot sun,no sunscreen.Lots of guns.No situation is so bad it can't be made worse by alcohol,so give them some.Soon the clothes would have to come off,and somebody will lose their temper.It could not possibly take long until problem solved.You are a fountain of Good Ideas,DKA.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

HAHAHAHahahaaaaaa - let's not forget their endless complimentary crack and crack pipes. OOOO plus sodium enriched soda water in their cocktails.

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

You know,crack would be so very bad if it became popular on a sweltering desert island crammed with naked sunburned bankers who are drunk and armed with AK's.And yet,as bad as it is,they deserve it.They are the worst people who have ever lived-or who ever will live.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

AMEN - they should experience a Baptist type version of HELL ON EARTH. Send in the venture capitalists. Ready - Aim - Tranquilize ( nother batch ready for transportation to fictional - um - sorry . . . Fantasy Island ). SHIT someone grab Romney - little bastard sure can squirm.

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (1406) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

The Island of the Naked Profiteers would be a crowded and uncomfortable place,with constant chaos caused by new arrivals.Without food,they would have to eat the putrid flesh of the fallen in order to have enough strength to fight over the crack.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

Damn - hold on a sec - are you pitching a new reality show? The real hunger games - better be good kids or...........................

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (893) 2 months ago

dammit people loss their mind in issolation

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

imposter

BTW - "they" already have lost their mind - so they are perhaps more likely to find their mind in isolation - no distractions to feed their insanity.

[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (893) 2 months ago

focus on a single subject leaves the mind tired and unable to respond without outside activity

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28203) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

imposter

Why would they be left without constructive stimulus? Just because they are isolated from society - does not mean they necessarily are left by themselves in a virtual vacuum.

[-] 0 points by turbocharger (1192) 2 months ago

lol

[-] 2 points by Shule (1696) 2 months ago

Actually r> g it is not an equation. It is an inequality.

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2142) 2 months ago

This is an ok bit on Pikettys r > g.

http://www.demos.org/blog/4/28/14/pikettys-capital-r-g-and-s

in answer to your question.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 months ago

Have you really read the entire article and source document? If so where exactly are you confused, it seems well laid out to me, your brief description is obliviously far off of what is said in the piece.

[-] -2 points by turbocharger (1192) 2 months ago

Ive read it, I just think that its pretty dumb on multiple levels.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 months ago

oh I see you have no understanding of such things so you think they're dumb,, I understand now

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[-] -1 points by turbocharger (1192) 2 months ago

What do you want to do as the solution? Speed up growth to rate of return on the stock market, or slow down the returns on the stock market to match the growth?

GDP in the 1st Quarter was -2.8 percent, fyi.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 1 month ago

I want to enact policies that would increase the cost of labor thus increasing growth and reducing the return on investment.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 months ago

the source link is above in the posting, but since it requires so much of your mental abilities to keep your heart beating and lungs breathing at the same time I will repost it here for you:

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/344/6186/838.full