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Forum Post: retail teamsters union !!!!! Raise everyones' wages all naturally & re-balance the entire structure of our economy!!!!

Posted 1 year ago on July 10, 2013, 10:56 p.m. EST by elf3 (2671)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Hey retail workers, they can't outsource you, so you now represent America's largest labor industry - so how come you don't want to make 30 dollars an hour with full almost free benefits instead of peanuts? Have a National Strike and organize your futures now if not for yourselves for your family and future generations

http://www.aflcio.org/Learn-About-Unions/How-to-Join-or-Form-a-Union

If a walmart or big box store worker strikes for two weeks but gains a pay increase to $30.00 an hour then they will make back an estimated 5 times their regular pay when the strike is over - worth the wait I would say and a nice little vacation at that?!

A.) a strike will cause them (Wal-Mart and their ilk) huge huge problems they can't do it ...in those two weeks they may lose every shareholder they have - there would be a run and they could actually go under from it - we're using the stock market against them in this way

B.) .. WE here at Occupy now need to work to re-balance and shift retail as the new American Labor baseline for a job that can't be outsourced and that can provide a good paying family feeding wage. For all Wal-Mart and big boxers have GAINED from the economy - they must now PAY and in fact OWE back what they took from it to keep our economy functioning and balanced. The labor market has shifted from manufacturing based economy to retail and service sector based economy and sorry Wal-Mart the ride is over - time to accept that and let it happen. *You have to especially remember that this would now also create competition in the labor market - if Wal-Mart is paying $30.00 an hour you might think about leaving your $15.00 an hour office job to go work there - it will create a shift in the ENTIRE market - all sectors will have to pay more!!! *So it makes up for the difference if any in cost increase on goods and will NATURALLY let the market determine a better less stagnant wage for us all.

C.) Long live the free market system!!!!!!!!!!!!!

152 Comments

152 Comments


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[-] 2 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

let's ignore the trolls and shills for this on all postings - let's form a strategy instead!

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

A national strike of retail workers would kick ass, elf. Think it'd make anyone sit up and take notice?

[-] 4 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

Yes I would think - unionizing all the big box stores would be easy - they are not under a Franchise model (unlike a lot of food service and chains which makes it slightly trickier) - though I agree paying your workers well should be part of franchisees national licensing agreements) - the big boxers would give chains cause to take notice ...and there would be nothing they can do to retaliate - they can't close every store and there just aren't enough scabs to cover the striking workers. Also teamsters drivers can not cross a picket line to deliver goods. So if the stores don't have their own delivery trucks they are screwed/ SOL. And trust me Americans can survive without a big box store for a couple of weeks they will just have to shop local - Imagine that!!! - we're talking Target, Wal-Mart, Best Buy. Home Depot, Loews, and the like. Costco workers have a union and make almost $30 an hour well worth 2 weeks of no pay (though they didn't have to do that because Costco welcomed the union). Aside from which on their current salaries Wal Mart workers are used to being frugal and finding other ways to get by. These workers just don't realize how much power they have - I may be hunted down and killed for posts about this, but I'm merely pointing out the obvious gorilla they've been trying desperately to cover up now for years.

Time for Wal-Mart to pay it forward instead of forcing their employees to suffer while they bask in the glory of their own greed and government bribery.

Hit Wall Street where it hurts for a change - we share a common cause with these workers - their gain is our gain and a huge message to Wall Street about how we feel about the slave labor Wall Mart model and what it has done to our country. All of the major players - DOW MONSANTO etc - sell their goods in Wall Mart ... we can hit them where it hurts since they have no conscience - get em in the wallet.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Get 'em in the wallet. Now you're speaking my lingo. I've been saying that here since day one, as have others. Like Builder's been saying, the consumer has far more power than he believes. As do the employees if they could get together and prepare in advance for a future strike. We need to follow the examples of some of these other countries.

And you bringing up Costco is a good point. Proof positive that an employer can pay a decent wage and not cause a corresponding rise in prices, which is the contention of the "raising the minimum will hurt us all" crowd.

[-] 4 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

this is different from raising minimum wage - this is letting the market determine what has value. Since most other employment can now be outsourced, then the free market determines that one that can not be outsourced is more valuable...that is supply and demand - they need these workers...a national strike will hurt their bottom line and their suppliers won't be happy either...the free market supply and demand people need to let the market determine how much a position should pay based on the lack of their ability to find cheaper labor elsewhere - a job that can't be outsourced has more value because they can't outsource the labor to another country - if you say "we're going to oppress wages and stop unionization - even though these jobs inherently hold value" then you are fixing the market that is Communism at it's worst. Is Wal Mart a Communist entity - perhaps? then if they will not allow the market or the lack of their ability to outsource it to determine the value of the job...you are simply replacing (or as they love to say "rebalancing") what was lost when manufacturing was outsourced...unionization and re-balancing wages to what they once were...they found a way to get cheaper manufacturing as well as how to grind the mom and pops into dust - well all those workers and entrepreneurs who lost their jobs began working in retail

... WE now need to shift this as the new American Labor baseline for a job that can't be outsourced and that can provide a good paying family feeding wage. For all Wal-Mart and big boxers have GAINED from the economy - they must now and in fact OWE back what they took from it to keep our economy functioning and balanced. The labor market has shifted from manufacturing based economy to retail and service sector based economy and sorry Wal-Mart the ride is over - time to accept that and let it happen.

You have to especially now remember now that this would also create competition in the labor market - if Wal-Mart is paying $30.00 an hour you might think about leaving your $15.00 an hour office job to go work there - it will create a shift in the ENTIRE market - all sectors will have to pay more!!! So it makes up for the difference if any in cost increase on goods

  • though for a retailer to make a 400 percent mark-up and passes a higher cost onto employees - then perhaps we need to think twice about shopping there?
[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Makes a lot of sense. My comment about the minimum wage was prompted by a poster two nights ago that said basically that. That a raise would cause a rise in prices. I understand what you are saying and agree completely.

However, they can't outsource the job overseas, but they could 'insource' cheap labor from south of the border or overseas I imagine. What would we do to stop that sort of end-run around any kind of national or widespread strike? We'd have to work in concert with the buying public to boycott that sort of threat, I guess. What do you think?

[-] 4 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

they could not import that much labor to cover a strike and once the union is in ...anyone hired must go through the union even on a visa they have to hire through the union ...it is a legal binding contract - any one company is allowed only so many work visas per year they would never have enough to cover the sheer amount of jobs - a strike will cause them huge huge problems they can't do it ...in those two weeks they may lose every shareholder they have - there would be a run and they could actually go under from it - we're using the stock market against them in this way

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

You're probably right. I just did a search and found a Business Insider article from 2010 that says Walmart employs about 1.4 million Americans, and it's definitely higher than that now. It would be next to impossible, I think, to import that many people in a short amount of time.

[-] 4 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

Great research gnomunny thanks for the stats - so ..uh huh - what exactly are we waiting for???? (Main Street to crumble while Wal-Mart gets even richer?) They can't fight this - once it gets rolling they will have to accept and sign a union contract !!!

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Well, I already boycott Wally and as I stated the other night to someone, I'd help the strikers in any way I could. So, what would be the first step, in your opinion? This is something that would take some serious planning.

[-] 4 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

hmmm getting 2 million (yup current amount of employees) on board ...I think we first need to get this going here on Occupy, Facebook - anywhere and everywhere create a buzz/ post flyers - people running this site -we need to make this the worker's home base a number one cause and provide them as much informational and technological support as possible - perhaps create a separate website - or get the Teamsters or AFL-CIO to help us organize and support this unionization and the strike. As I said this ain't no franchise we're talking a National Union Contract- once the dominos begin to fall the strikes are organized and the petitions begin to be signed it's a done deal. We've got them where we want them already. It's a matter of organizing and keeping the union petition signings secret and impenetrable to corporate hackers they simply need to agree on places to sign in secret without getting intercepted by the company - perhaps Anonymous / technically talented could lend us a hand in that department.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Well, you got it started here, and I don't do FaceBook so that's something someone else will have to do. What you need are a list of facts and/or stats for the flyers, which anyone could print out on their computers. That would be a start. Odin does pretty well with the flyers he passes out regularly, so that would be an easy step. A website devoted to this is a good idea.

[-] 4 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

I agree perhaps a website that literally gets each and every employee signature and gathers Anonymously can't be hacked, lays in wait and when every employee has signed bam - unionized - it is done - Wal Mart has to comply

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Replying here. You definitely have my wheels turning. I'm thinkin' . . . . I'm thinkin' . . . .

[-] -2 points by beppe (-87) 1 year ago

LOL! That should be interesting when Walmart attorneys initiate discovery.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

The problem would be getting the word out to the Walmart employees without management finding out.

We need a success story. If they realized their true collective power it might make the difference.

[-] 4 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

management could find out - as long as they don't know their own store employees are involved and can't get access to that info or sign up sheet - in fact the more people that know about the strike the better - even this conversation has some sweat brewing in a boardroom right now...guaranteed!! Get shareholders stirring - get Wall Street talking!!! Get it in the Wall Street journal. Wal Mart has to know it's serious for them to deal - when shareholders get nervous or talk - they pay attention.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (26805) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Hmmm - makes me wonder if you or whomever set this up could get public records? Then it would be a matter of contacting em all on the qt to get em to visit the site.

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (26805) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

[-] 2 points by elf3 (1439) 10 minutes ago

i agree and there is a petition going on these - first we need to lessen the grip they have on our lawmakers or none of that will matter - we have to get em in the wallet and let them know who has the power - the workers must unionize!!!! It is a gigantic message to all of Wall Street and to lawmakers - it will set of not only an economic re-balance/ shift it will set of a new shift in the worker psyche and mindset of the nation and world

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

And people need to take whatever money they can away from wallstreet and put it in local community credit unions - as well as boycott mega monster stores - as well as unionize to restore workers rights.

This world must start taking the long view of actions and results and start planning and implementing now for a clean healthy and prosperous world for all - because if we do not start working on it now - it likely will never happen. Correction it almost certainly will not happen.

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (26805) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

[-] 2 points by elf3 (1429) 3 minutes ago

I hate Wal Mart as much as you DKA but part of what has caused them to have so much power is their pyramid of profits - not only are they hoarding all their profits - they use those profits to make unprecedented changes to our laws and system that further advances their monopoly and power - if have to spread some of this profit to their employees, it dilutes also some of the power imbalances caused by such a wealth gap and lessens their capability to use their unprecedented wealth for negative influence and control over our government. They use their profits to create laws that further narrow this pyramid and lessen the employees negotiating power - somehow we have to break this cycle: One family or company can't have this much influence over our government and people and labor market. It is dangerous. It's why unions ant anti monopoly laws were created.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Move to Amend would be a very good start as would OSTA. Starting a drive for laws created to stop usury and monopolies and fraud and and and - Just plain and simply get enforced - where it most counts - on corp(se)oRATions and their wealthy criminal members.

[-] 4 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

i agree and there is a petition going on these - first we need to lessen the grip they have on our lawmakers or none of that will matter - we have to get em in the wallet and let them know who has the power - the workers must unionize!!!! It is a gigantic message to all of Wall Street and to lawmakers - it will set of not only an economic re-balance/ shift it will set of a new shift in the worker psyche and mindset of the nation and world

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (26805) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

[-] 2 points by elf3 (1417) 0 minutes ago

I think Wal Mart will be using hackers to hack into whatever system that gets created - unfortunately it needs to be airtight to prevent that - it also has to be accurate (actual employees - ergo information about them their employment would most likely be needed) The Teamsters would know far more about this process than anything I can offer. I am certainly willing to research as much as I can. I feel it must be done in a way that every store is unionized almost simultaneously because Wal-Mart doesn't hesitate to close stores that they catch trying to unionize. The unionization must be done totally anonymously and in a large loud way so that all the store employees will be aware of it and are ready to heed the call of a national strike.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Hhmmm walfart closing stores - hmmmm would that really be a bad thing?

People - have you left your wallstreet banks yet and gotten into a credit union? Credit Unions are for investing in your local community.

[-] 4 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

I hate Wal Mart as much as you DKA but part of what has caused them to have so much power is their pyramid of profits - not only are they hoarding all their profits - they use those profits to make unprecedented changes to our laws and system that further advances their monopoly and power - if have to spread some of this profit to their employees, it dilutes also some of the power imbalances caused by such a wealth gap and lessens their capability to use their unprecedented wealth for negative influence and control over our government. They use their profits to create laws that further narrow this pyramid and lessen the employees negotiating power - somehow we have to break this cycle: One family or company can't have this much influence over our government and people and labor market. It is dangerous. It's why unions and anti monopoly laws were created originally.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (26805) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Wonder if you could set that up on care2 or change.org? Perhaps that is something that Avazz could help with.

[-] 5 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

I think Wal Mart will be using hackers to hack into whatever system that gets created - unfortunately it needs to be airtight to prevent that - it also has to be accurate (actual employees - ergo information about them their employment would most likely be needed) The Teamsters would know far more about this process than anything I can offer. I am certainly willing to research as much as I can. I feel it must be done in a way that every store is unionized almost simultaneously because Wal-Mart doesn't hesitate to close stores that they catch trying to unionize. The unionization must be done totally anonymously and in a large loud way so that all the store employees will be aware of it and are ready to heed the call of a national strike.

[-] -3 points by beppe (-87) 1 year ago

LOL! You've got them where you want them! OK

The secret life of Walter "Occupy" Mitty.

[-] 5 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

This is Occupy's triumph and it's no fantasy - it's actually pretty darn simple: Is a labor union legend or fantasy ? No they are real - ask the 1.4 million Teamsters who make a decent wage. There are currently 2 million Wal Mart workers - if 2 million people hold absolutely no power against a hideously ugly and dirty blue warehouse that houses nothing but overpriced cheap crap that falls apart in a week run by one family, then truly our Nation and the world is doomed. The illusion that Wal Mart holds that much power is simply an illusion - they have ridden that wave long enough... reality is kicking in now.

[-] 3 points by TikiJ (-38) 1 year ago

This is one of leading groups working on what you are talking about.

http://forrespect.org/

[+] -5 points by beppe (-87) 1 year ago

Thanks for reminding me. I have to go to Walmart tomorrow to pick up stuff.

[-] 3 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

alls good in essence doesn't matter if you continue to shop there or not - it doesn't affect the employee becoming union - not asking the public to boycott, asking the workers to organize - sorry you got confused. Though the store can't stay open if all 2 million employees strike - it would be totally impossible - you might have to go without buying something really cheaply made for two weeks (may I suggest local small business while the strike is occurring? you could discover it is cheaper: when is the last time you shopped somewhere else to compare?)

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Don't forget to pick up some GMO cornflakes, and perhaps some CAFO steaks. I hear that shit's really good for you.

[-] 1 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

May as well get proactive and start your next account, this one's pooched. Or just find another hobby. You're useless.

[-] 4 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

It would absolutely work. I would hope many would donate to the strikers because they live paycheck to paycheck and would need help.

The retail store workers combined with the fast food workers striking for a week would send an awesome message. Pay would rise immediately!

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

That would be great. It's what we need here in the states, to finally get the big boys to listen for a change. And it would send a strong message that, yes, the worker does still have some power in this country. Hell, other countries do it, I wish we would, too.

I couldn't donate money but I would definitely help out the strikers in the food department. I have a small stockpile of canned goods and access to more, so I'd be willing to help in some small way.

[-] 4 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

I would have to help in the same way but others could help in different ways. People could become organized locally and insure the populace that this is not intending to inconvenience regular people. Publish the dates so everyone could stock supplies. Any business that threatens strikers concerning their jobs should be protested immediately. This is strictly a message to big corporations.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

I like it. Plan ahead so the strikers are well-poised to weather the storm. And organize boycotts of those corporations that threaten to fire them. I definitely like it. It's theoretically very doable.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (26805) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Wellllllllll.....I mean as long as people are stocking up at stores that are not being boycotted or are going on strike - otherwise - what is the point?

I mean - Hell they didn't understand the failure of black Friday sales last year - that people just do not have money - so unless a strike or a boycott hurts sales you have no chance of making a point - they are apparently clueless right now - they thought that lying about sales last black Friday would have brought out the shoppers - F'n insane idiots.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (26805) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Retail and service would be so GR8.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

I was thinking about the service industry when I checked this post. The service industry is also one of the largest sectors now, sadly. Speaking of which, there's a good quote from a guy named Arun Gupta (from 'The Guardian' Nov. 2011):

"Having driven some 7,000 miles and visited 23 cities in reporting on the Occupy Movement, it became apparent that the US is essentially an oil-based economy in which we shuttle goods we no longer make around a continental land mass, creating poverty-level dead-end jobs in the service sector."

How sad, and infuriating.

[-] 4 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

We are just selling hamburgers to each other. lol. I actually did that, sold burgers in my deli but sometimes bought a burger from Burger King.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Yeah, and yet so many think this country is doing just fine. They "can't see the forest . . ."

Hey, you're not still buying Burger King burgers are you?

http://www.naturalnews.com/041116_hamburgers_fast_food_meat_content.html

The revelations never end.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (26805) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

How sad, and infuriating.

And unfortunately - TRUE.

Right now the American dream - of having a home a wife/husband/significant other children two chickens in every pot savings and higher education - where the kids will do as well or better then their parents - WELL - that dream has a serious case of cancer - and currently is receiving no treatment.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

That dream is on life support. Better call in the family, it ain't looking to good for the patient.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (26805) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

No shit. But hell if it keeps going the way it is right now - F'n Status-quo - we are all dead anyway - those who live longer into the final death will have incredibly horrible days to face.

[-] 4 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

re quo our status - good paying retail jobs that can't be outsourced to replenish the loss of manufacturing - RE-BALANCE the labor market - UNION UP !!! All the power is sitting here in our hands - Wal-Mart knows it, we know it... are we ready for some Free Market Justice !?

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (26805) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Resistance is finally starting to build - still rather slow - But - really that could change pretty quickly.

[-] -1 points by beppe (-87) 1 year ago

Unions, a wholly owned subsidiary of the democrat party...

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

[-] 1 points by WSmith (1980) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

I'd go further and call for a wildcat strike.

The 1% elite are sitting on Trillions regardless of the plight of workers!

If you're going to fuck them, fuck them mercilessly, comprehensively, unequivocally!!!

They have our money!!!

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[-] 0 points by Veracity777 (-9) 1 year ago

Be interesting to see if Walmart can be unionized. Retail clerks don't add much value to a product, plus low income consumers will be badly hurt by much higher prices.

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (21297) 1 year ago

I agree that the way we value labor in this country needs a shake up, a complete overhaul. Labor doesn't just have to produce profit, it can produce livelihoods for real human beings. How about an economic system that works for the people instead of vice versa.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

What does it say to us on this forum that that comment which was +4 & on BCT earlier, now languishes here & that the same goes for elf's important link below ( http://occupywallst.org/forum/retail-teamsters-union/#comment-986996 ) ? & also fyi : http://itsoureconomy.us/ & http://www.democracyatwork.info/ !!

ad iudicium ...

[-] 4 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

noticed that too shadz - but I like to get the opposing information - know thy enemy ...it gives us insight into the propaganda machine and problems that we are set to face

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

True that & re. ''know thy enemy'', please see :

This is a 15 minute extended trailer / synopsis of this great doc. (which I have seen in entirety) but I am having problems finding links to the full 75 minute film. It is heavily copyright protected - which for a doc. of this nature is very uncommon in my experience. However, I believe RT USA will be broadcasting it on 20th July. I strongly recommend the above video in the meantime though and will try to find a link to the whole thing later & also fyi & in compliment to your forum-post :

fiat lux ...

[-] 3 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

thanks for the links - i also thought the Bill Moyers Doc on Two American Families created a true and intimate portrait of results of outsourcing and downsizing and wage suppression in this country

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/two-american-families/

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Bill Moyers' ''Two American Families'' really is a must watch for anyone who gives a hoot for The 99% and thanx very much for that excellent link & for the other films in that series, I'm cross-linking here to :

pax ...

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21297) 1 year ago

It says that the things that you and I and elf believe in are things that scare the sh-t out of the TPTB.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

"Obama’s “Just-in-time” Workforce : 17 Million Temporary Workers in America'', by Nancy Hanover :

''The Obama administration’s policy, far from reversing the destruction of workers’ rights prosecuted with such vengeance in the 1980s and 1990s, has accelerated the impoverishment of wide swaths of America.'' & re. what you say - very true bw.

fiat lux et fiat justitia ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21297) 1 year ago

"Temporary" and "part time" employment should be enforced to the full extent of the law. Right now these two "goodies" are are abused horribly, but employees are powerless to enforce the law and question employers and our governments, both federal and local, turn the other way so as not to question employers either. It's really a joke.

Labor laws have gone to pot in this country. Workers have zero rights. This is a nation run by and for the benefit of corporations, not human beings. Wake up people. There is a social contract, there really is. And, you have rights under the moral code of humanity.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

''Labor laws have gone to pot in this country. Workers have zero rights. This is a nation run by and for the benefit of corporations, not human beings. Wake up people. There is a social contract, there really is. And, you have rights under the moral code of humanity.'' - BIG FAT Ditto, god damn it !!! + fyi, pls c :

''What is new about the politics of disposability that has become a central feature of contemporary American politics is the way in which such anti-democratic practices have become normalized in the existing neoliberal order. A politics of inequality and ruthless power disparities is now matched by a culture of cruelty soaked in blood, humiliation, and misery. Private injuries not only are separated from public considerations such narratives, but narratives of poverty and exclusion have become objects of scorn. Similarly, all noncommercial public spheres where such stories might get heard are viewed with contempt, a perfect supplement to the chilling indifference to the plight of the disadvantaged and disenfranchised.''

e tenebris, lux !!

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (21297) 1 year ago

We need a full on labor movement in the U.S.

Somehow, those not in unions have decided that their decreasing wages and benefits are the fault of greedy union workers! This could not be farther from the truth and is such a harmful belief because when people call to diminish the power of unions further, they only perpetuate their own demise. Union wages drive all wages. When unions weaken, all workers' weaken.

So, I repeat, we need a full on labor movement in this country. We need all workers to stand up for what is rightfully theirs which is a fair share of the profits, the fruits of their labor, in the form of wages and benefits that provide enough to live decently without having to live in debt.

[-] 4 points by madison (0) 1 year ago

"We need a full on labor movement in the U.S."

Maybe it could start August 24th

http://workerscompass.org/sf-labor-calls-on-labor-movement-to-mobilize-in-washington-d-c-august-24/

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21297) 1 year ago

Awesome. I have bookmarked your website. It looks very good. Thanks for sharing.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

''When unions weaken, all workers weaken.'' is very true & so on elf's important thread, I'll append here :

Finally, ''Face it, Obama has been a disaster. Discretionary federal spending is lower than it’s been in a half-century, while the budget deficits are falling faster than anytime since WW2. What does that mean? It means President Obama is sucking the stimulus out of the economy to put more pressure on wages and to reduce working people to grinding third-world poverty. It’s a stealth version of starve the beast, and it’s working like a charm. The middle class is now taking it in the stern-sheets while Obama’s moneybags buddies laugh all the way to the bank.'' from :

concilio et labore ...

[-] 7 points by beautifulworld (21297) 1 year ago

"It's true. Businesses have won. They've increased their production demands, they've extended employees' work hours (after having laid off a segment of the workforce), they've taken to issuing ultimatums (If you don't like it here, quit), and they've done all of it while, simultaneously, having kept wages relatively stagnant. As for traditional benefits such as pensions, bonuses, sick leave and paid vacations, forget about it. Most of those have been abolished."

It's time to fight back people and organizing collectively in unions is one way to do that.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

''It's time to fight back people and organizing collectively in unions is one way to do that.'' Yes, bw & here's further insights into why :

''Companies are now running roughshod over their employees -- not those in upper management, or those who hold computer science degrees from Stanford University, but the regular folks, those with high school diplomas who just want to work for a living, those regular folks who realize they have "jobs" rather than "careers."

''Welcome to the underbelly of technology. Companies electronically time your coffee breaks, they electronically measure your output, they spy on you with cameras, they force you to attend indoctrination meetings and film you as you listen, and they send out emails threatening to fire you if you show up late to work. Things have shifted so dramatically, management now expects to run the table every time they pick up a pool cue.

''Which brings us to the role of labor unions. It's no accident that this draconian work environment coincides with the precipitous drop in union membership. It's no accident and it's no coincidence, because the one thing a labor union brings to the workplace is resistance -- resistance in the form of worker representation and adult supervision. It's the school yard dynamic all over again.'' From the 'HuffPo' link above and from the ICH link above, further consider :

''“While pre-tax corporate profits are at record highs, amounting to 12 percent of GDP, net investment is barely 4 percent of output…. Increased profits are not being used to expand production, as took place in the past, but are increasingly being used to finance stock buybacks, so as to increase the rate of return on shareholders’ capital…

''This result indicates that rising profits are no longer being produced by an expansion of the market, as they were in the past, but are increasingly the result of cost-cutting, as firms raise their bottom line by grabbing an increased share of a stagnant or contracting market from their rivals. In other words, the once “normal” process of capitalist accumulation—increasing investment leading to an expanding market, higher profits and further investment—has completely broken down.”

Re. The 1% lackeys & their 0.01% Masters, also consider :

radix omnium malorum est cupiditas ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21297) 1 year ago

"India just approved a program to spend $4 billion a year to feed 800 million people. Half of Indian children under 5 are malnourished.

In 2012, three members of the Walton family each made over $4 billion just from stocks and other investments. So did Charles Koch, and David Koch, and Bill Gates, and Warren Buffett, and Larry Ellison, and Michael Bloomberg, and Jeff Bezos.

It's not the obligation of any one of these individuals to feed the world. The disgrace is in the fact that our unregulated capitalist system allows such outrageous extremes to exist.

Here's more to provoke outrage. The 400 richest Americans made $200 billion in just one year. That's equivalent to the combined total of the federal food stamp, education, and housing budgets."

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Future economists will be forced into a 'No-Growth, Sustainability Economics'. But will the economists change as long as they’re mercenaries in the employ of 'Perpetual Growth Capitalists' ? No. It will take a new mind-set. The difference between the mind-set of traditional economists and the future new eco-economists will be simple : Traditional economists think short-term, react short-term, pursue short-term goals. New eco-economists think long-term. Money, it's nature & how & why it's created will enter new paradigms & be weighted to commodities and labour as opposed to Bank Created Interest Bearing Debt Obligations and parasitic rentier behaviour. We're living in unsustainable paradigms & change will come.

dum spiro, spero ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21297) 1 year ago

That is an excellent point re: the difference between short term and long term. Thinking of the living wage, for instance, it is the short term fear that businesses would find it difficult to adjust to a living wage where they argue against it. But, there is no argument against a living wage in the long term. In the long term we'd have a more robust economy with the masses sharing a much larger piece of the pie and being able to consume much more comfortably.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Traditional economists are employees and consultants for organizations with short-term views - banks, big corporations, institutional investors, hedge-funds, think-tanks, governments.

They all think in lock-step, driven by daily returns, quarterly earnings, annual bonuses. Short business and election cycles are more important than what happens a decade in the future. Their sad brains are convinced that if they can’t survive the short, long-term is irrelevant and they are blind to the downward spiralling of their self-reinforcing, limited mindsets.

Our so called leaders, capitalists, economists and politicians all live in a collective conscience that must believe in the bizarre myth of 'Perpetual Growth' in order to justify everything they believe about the future, about progress, about income and wealth increasing, about a better life. Oh how wrong they are !!

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21297) 1 year ago

And, because corporations and their profits are considered more important than people, and because profits are short term, we all lose out in the long term. Well said, Shadz.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26805) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

TRUTH - Stability is given very short shrift. Everyone has got to see a continual minimum of a 20% growth - the F'n idiots - that is not sustainable - not over the long term - there must come a time of no growth - not decline - but - NO GROWTH - the system is finite. To treat it as otherwise - IS - INSANE.

Ummmm - Sorry - there is always the chance of continual growth - as population increases - but that growth may be 1% or .5% or .25%

There is nothing wrong with that.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26805) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

-] 2 points by beautifulworld (14105) 3 minutes ago

Exactly, DKA. It's a domino effect.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Yes - and - also - synergy.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26805) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Where these thoughts - as you point out - need to come together - to find a eureka moment - experience an epiphany - is that tomorrow never comes - not without starting today. A living wage for all will immediately benefit - ALL - as that money - will - WILL - be spent - and it will be spent on as many needs/wants as the people have. That means - even if you don't sell stuff to your employees that you are now paying a living wage to - there are millions of others with a - now - Living Wage - that have money that they can spend above and beyond essential survival needs.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21297) 1 year ago

Exactly, DKA. It's a domino effect.

[-] 0 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 1 year ago

Its amazing that as technology increases over the last 30 years, our wages are stagnant and people are working harder and longer than before.

We've also doubled the workers per household for the most part.

And then on the opposite side of that, labor participation rate is at the same level as the late 70's at 64%.

So we have a little over half the population working,and working more and longer than ever, and then we have 35% not working at all.

ITs a mess, thats for sure. In order for this system to work, it takes a lot of creativity and innovation to keep coming up with new ideas.

Honestly, I'm not sure we are educated enough at this point to balance it out.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

It's ''amazing'' AND beyond Outrageous 'TD' & for some rapid 'education' and real insights on what happened to all the actual profits from the increased productivity, please take a few minutes to see :

e tenebris lux ...

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (26805) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Gordon Geiko - eat your heart out.

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 1 year ago

HOnestly, and this is a direct result of our centrally planned education system here... the majority of low wage workers dont really understand what unions are to begin with. Forrespect.org is doing a fantastic job, they have a person leading them that simply will not give up, and I respect her very much.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21297) 1 year ago

Education really is the number one thing we can do.

[-] 1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 1 year ago

"There is a social contract, there really is. "

I agree.

Last I knew, we dont charge each other interest when we need to lend each other money.

So why do we allow the ones who can actually print it, to charge US interest?

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

On one side, the pro-corporate 1% have the claim that the rising share of taxes paid by the rich shows that their burden is rising, not falling. To point out the obvious - the rich, if they indeed are - are only paying more taxes because they’re much richer than they used to be. When middle-class incomes barely grow while the incomes of the wealthiest rise by a factor of six to ten or more, then how could the tax share of the rich not go up, even as their tax rate is falling ?!

On the other side, we have the claim that the rich have the right to keep their money - which totally misses the point that all of us live in and benefit from being part of a larger society.

Elizabeth Warren, the putative financial reformer, who is in now the United States Senator for Massachusetts, actually made some eloquent remarks to this effect that rightly, got a lot of attention a couple of years ago :

“There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody,” she declared, pointing out that the rich can only get rich thanks to the “social contract” that provides a decent, functioning society in which they can prosper. Also fyi, see http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/07/02-0 for more relevant info.

Now the question remains - can we expect or even hope that she'll raise the matter of 'Public Banking' ?

Perhaps not without a huge push 'from below' via an organised, loud, proud yet strategically amorphous movement of the 99%, galvanised by O.W.S. maybe !

dum spiro, spero ...

[-] 0 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

better hurry up .... the robots are coming ....

The World’s First Virtual Supermarket:

http://www.bitrebels.com/technology/the-worlds-first-virtual-supermarket-opens/

[-] 0 points by beppe (-87) 1 year ago

The current proposal to raise the minimum wage for Walmart stores only would seem unconstitutional to me. It would violate the equal protection clause. You don't raise minimum wage standards selectively, you raise them uniformly.

[-] 2 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

beppe - if people and corporations can no longer negotiate their terms or make contracts than what kind of system is this ?

Now I've seen it all so - are you actually referring to unionization (a democratic process whereby a constituency of citizens and employees gathers together as group to sway corporate policy in their favor and by fair measures of protest use their collective power of bargaining and market demands to NEGOTIATE better wages ....as unconstitutional??!!) - did you forget what country you live in? Holy Crap - bet you think lobbying is just dandy though! They have something Wal Mart wants...employees - well Wal Mart if you want employees you must negotiate better wages or you won't have employees they will strike...

is this person beppe backwards? well according to the law she is

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/employee-rights-book/chapter15-7.html

Sections 7 and 8 of the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) guarantee employees the right to create, join, and participate in a labor union without being unfairly intimidated or punished by their employers. Employee Rights Generally, the courts have ruled that Section 7 of the NLRA gives employees the right to: discuss union membership and read and distribute union literature during nonwork time in nonwork areas, such as an employee lounge sign a card asking your employer to recognize your union and bargain with it, sign petitions and grievances concerning employment terms and conditions, and ask your coworkers to sign petitions and grievances, and display your prounion sentiments by wearing message-bearing items such as hats, pins, and T-shirts on the job. Employer Limitations Most courts have also ruled that Section 8 of the NLRA means that an employer may not: grant or promise employees promotions, pay raises, desirable work assignments, or other special favors if they oppose unionizing efforts close down a work site or transfer work or reduce benefits to pressure employees not to support unionization, or dismiss, harass, reassign, or otherwise punish or discipline employees—or threaten to—if they support unionization. How Unions Are Born If a group of employees wishes to campaign for unionization of their jobs, the best place to begin is by contacting a union that might be interested and proposing the idea. Unions are usually listed in the yellow pages of your local telephone directory under Labor Organizations. Don’t let their names discourage you. It is not unusual for meat packers to belong to the United Steel Workers, for example, or for office workers to belong to the Teamsters union, which originally represented freight drivers. The only practical way to determine which unions might be interested in unionizing your workplace is to call and ask. If the union you approach is interested, it will assign professional organizers who will guide you through the rest of the process. If it is not interested—perhaps because your employer is too small or because you work in an industry with which it is not comfortable—that union should be able to suggest another one that would be more appropriate for you to contact. If not, contact the American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations (AFL-CIO), www.aflcio.org. The National Labor Relations Act allows you to form your own, independent union to represent only the workers at your place of employment without affiliating with any established union. Such unions exist, but the complexities of labor law and the cost of running an independent union typically make them unfeasible in all but the largest companies. Updated by: Lisa Guerin, J.D.

[-] -2 points by beppe (-87) 1 year ago

Is that what I wrote? Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

[-] 6 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

this post is about a union - so far you've made threats about lawyers, called unions a fantasy legend, and posted misinformation about laws that somehow indicates negotiating a better wage is unconstitutional...?

Also the proposal you're speaking of was to raise the minimum wage for ALL of DC workers including Wal Mart workers (Wall - Mart threatened to pull out stores if it passed.) And we all laughed here at Occupy, because we thought of all the new small businesses that would have a space in the market place- we said - well then go! But they don't really want to go - they just want to fix and have total control of the markets and our lawmakers; They want to set a precedent.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

If I recall correctly what I read two nights ago, its for any retailer with over a billion in annual sales. Saying it's just Walmart is propaganda, of course.

[-] 4 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

a billion - it's that high??! - funny I work for a small business who voluntarily pays me much more than 12 - and they make far far less than that - truly insane ...our government is f@#^d - guess when you put a bunch of millionaires in a room together - their perspective is totally backwards on what percentage seems fair... from a millionaires perspective (and I guess fair to them it is a mighty minuscule percent) which is why we need to do it ourselves via citizen protest and unionization

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago
[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

I'd have to check the three links again but I'm pretty sure it was a bill. Let me go check and I'll come back. This law should go nationwide. Then Amazon would stop fucking their people too. Costco would be unaffected since they already do it.

[+] -7 points by beppe (-87) 1 year ago

And that would violate the equal protection clause. You do not do these kinds of things selectively.

You democrats are idiots!

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

I'm not a democrat, dumb fuck. You make a lot of assumptions for a supposed 'new guy.'

Now, I'm done with you. This time for real.

[+] -6 points by beppe (-87) 1 year ago

ooooooooooooooooooh !

Ya promise?!!

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (26805) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Unless they are considering their own self - then it is different - it is important - TO THEM - it is then a REAL issue.

[-] -2 points by beppe (-87) 1 year ago

No it was not to raise the minimum wage on all employers. The proposal is to raise the minimum wage selectively.

Read the facts surrounding the story.

[-] -3 points by beppe (-87) 1 year ago

What threats have I made?

[-] 3 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

fear and discouragement - about lawyers ...and union shake-ups - if you really truly believe the market is not benefited by unions let the market decide ...give the employees an up or down vote on unionization without mis-information, threats, or retaliation

[-] -2 points by beppe (-87) 1 year ago

Hey moron, no threats have been made by me, ever. I have no control over the market.

Now get back on your Thorazine drip.

[-] 3 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

graceful !

[-] -3 points by beppe (-87) 1 year ago

Hey MORON, you don't raise the minimum wage SELECTIVELY. Get it, you f'n dumbass?

[-] 2 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

Hey, fuck you!

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

WhyTF Not ?! Basic minimum wage ($10+) for small employers then higher one for parasitic multi-nationals ... 'cause 'Trickle Down Capitalism' ain't working as it is so clearly a case of 'Hoover Up Crapitalism' now !! Geddit 'f d' ?!!!

STOP being such a 0.01% Parasite Class / Walton Family lickspille & apologist or are u a PR shill ?

temet nosce ...

[+] -5 points by beppe (-87) 1 year ago

Cuz it's illegal, it violates the equal protection clause of the Constitution. Cuz it's very unAmerican. Wake the fook up, idiot.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Stop pretending that you give two shits about the law or hard working Americans being victimised by a predatory, parasitic and wholly extractive economic system - you graceless, Koch sucking, corporate prick ! This is OWS & this forum post is about The 99%. Get your head out of your ass and catch this :

radix omnium malorum est cupiditas ...

[+] -5 points by beppe (-87) 1 year ago

Parasitic? No, that would be unions confiscating dues against the worker's will and sending it to Washington DC for favors. Screw that. That's wholesale corruption going on today.

Screw unions. They cause wealth inequality and outsourcing through selfish policy.

[-] 4 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

Your rabid opposition belies your true intentions of class warfare ...unions represent the employees ....you hate fairness and decent wages ....let me ask beppe what percent of Wal Marts profits goes to employees? (we all have Google now, pretty easy to find out) Raising their wages dips into the Waltons pocket they may be forced to trickle down some of their extreme profits gained via outsourcing American manufacturing jobs to China ....do you really want a royalty caste system ...then bow to the Waltons if you want the rest of us we like our democracy and ability to unionize

[-] -3 points by beppe (-87) 1 year ago

Unions represent whatever their leadership wants them to represent. They confiscate the dues of workers against their will and throw it at politicians.

You keep on keeping on.

[-] 4 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

... my husband who works for a private union is laughing at you over my shoulder - when asked do you mind paying your union dues he replied "hell no!" and added to that ... "in comparison to a Wal-Mart or a lot of workers right now I am wealthy - keeping their wages suppressed benefits me to the degree that now my pay is worth even more... but I don't want to get ahead by keeping others down...and on the whole our economy is not functioning - it is collapsing - that doesn't benefit anyone let alone me... when wages are kept low, the short term I gain a huge gap over a lot of people, but long term we all lose including me. I believe in a fair economy and playing field which a national retail union would provide"

I will keep on as long as democracy is threatened by psychopathic economic mentality...I have endless stamina for it - keep on beppe

[-] -3 points by beppe (-87) 1 year ago

Yes, your husband doesn't mind paying. He doesn't speak for everyone working in union shops. Workers have no choice but to pay union dues in a unionized shop. Do you understand that? There is no choice.

Maybe your husband should study the concept of individual liberty set forth by our founders.

When wages are kept low, workers quit. When workers quit, the feedback to the business is that they raise wages to attract workers, because businesses can't exist without workers. Wages kept high by a union are artificial. They get passed on to the consumer and cause inflation because it's artificial.

The worth of an employee is determined by their productivity, not by some union goon sticking their finger in the wind and saying what the worker is worth. Furthermore, unions often demand a certain number of employees per task. Again, that's artificial. You could have a floor swept by two people or mandated as fifteen by the union. The problem is Company A is unionized, Company B isn't and Company B can sell their product for a price that's more in line with the market because they don't have the overhead of a union demanding they hire X many employees even though they are not needed. Eventually Company A goes bust thanks to the union and lack of sales or overhead that's too high; it turns into a jobs program and your competitors eat you alive. Think about all the U.S. car companies, the airlines and steel companies that have gone tits up thanks to unions and their unreasonable demands that put them right out of business. This is a global economy and you have to be competitive or the business goes under or gets outsourced. Then what?

Same with the public sector unions. Why do you think all the municipalities like Detroit, Michigan and Stockton and Vallejo, California are starting to go broke? Unrealistic pension funds demanded by unions decades ago. Stupid crap like working for 25 years and then retiring at 90% of pay for the next 30 years with full medical. You can't tax the citizenry enough to pay for all that stupid union driven schit. Unions are pushing a psychopathic economic mentality.

Have your husband chew on that.

[-] 3 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

You said "When wages are kept low, workers quit. When workers quit, the feedback to the business is that they raise wages to attract workers, because businesses can't exist without workers. Wages kept high by a union are artificial. They get passed on to the consumer and cause inflation because it's artificial." [-] 0 points by beppe (-52) 33 minutes ago

Unless every other good paying job has been outsourced - I would argue wages kept low by outsourcing, are artificial as well as is the worth of the employee - Americans are the most productive employees in the world and have the least vacation or sick pay of any industrialized nation and apparently the pay is not in line with thatWal-Mart or Apple or anyone doesn't need slave wages making their products to be able to make a good profit- the problem is they want to ownthe entire market - that's what happens when the stock market determines that humans no longer matter, that a good profit is not enough, and looks at a human being like a margin or bottom line and number that must always work harder and faster and receive less, as well as be downsized the moment they deem it will make them more. CEO's are very good at cutting costs - they suck at making a profit and in today's mentality they've determined - that it is always the employee that is the liability. That's not how Capitalism works - people get paid, people buy product, company makes money - employees should be considered the nation's larges asset. Too bad we have to unionize for that to happen - if 2 Million employees made a decent wage - imagine how much more spending they would put back into the economy ... seems that empathetic economics works better than botless - psychopathic decision making of today's CEOs.

Ad to this money spent on ridiculous advertising costs to sell to a dying Middleclass would be better spent paying employees so they could actually afford to buy the things you sell...???

[-] -2 points by beppe (-87) 1 year ago

Reply for above

Take away lobbying and unlimited campaign donations... except from your precious unions right?

LOL! Today, we're just as communist as China thanks to people like you and your dream of a centrally controlled economy.

You lampoon corporate subsidies and then you whine about more foodstamps and welfare which are corporate subsidies. Pull your head out, pal. Food stamps and welfare end up in corporate coffers.

What happened to doctors and nurses? Well, they're leaving the medical field thanks to your demands that Washington DC run healthcare pushed by Obama & yoonyenz. WAKE UP.

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

All you have to point to is the time unions were formed up till about the time the Powell memo started circulating to show unions were a good thing. People like beppe are shills. Best to ignore.

[-] -2 points by beppe (-87) 1 year ago

How are we the most productive? By some statistic Washington DC puts out?

Mostly, we just shuffle paper from one pile to another and read emails! LOL.

And now, many of the people shuffle paper part-time 28 hours a week thanks to Obamacare pushed by unions!!! Again, everything the unions touch turns to schit.

The productivity of an asian country is much higher. At the end of the day, you have something.... a product. Here, we have some intellectual capital, but even that is slowing as the asian countries not only build, but start to design products also.

Ummm.. the president had the BIGGEST stimulus in history (ARRA). $787 billion and it didn't produce a blip on the radar. Two million folks ain't doin' anything.

Would you like to wait for "every other good paying job to be outsourced" because it's coming if we keep going down the path of failed economics, unions being one of the bigger failures. "Empathetic" economics myass. This is about raw numbers and the laws of economics, which cannot be pushed aside to "feelgood", just like the laws of math and physics can't be pushed aside. If you make stupid policies to feelgood, the consequences come back to bite everyone down the road... just look at the "fairness in housing" BS Washington DC pushed on us (NINJA loans, no doc loans, etc) and it hit the U.S. like a ton of bricks and nearly killed us in 2007.

You want "fairness in wages" just like another crowd wanted "fairness in housing" a few years ago. If you want fairness, let things float in the marketplace. That's the ultimate in fairness. Take away all mandates and subsidies. We don't need anymore "planning" by central committees and governments. Let the market rule.

"The more the plans fail, the more the planners plan." - Ronald Reagan

[-] 2 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

Take away lobbying and unlimited campaign donations - then, when we have our free market back, you can talk about fair. For someone who hates Socialism so much you don't seem to mind Communist China making all of our products through a corrupted form of Socialism where all the money floats to the top and the underclasses do all the work and the wealthy just collect the fruits of their labor (oh wait that's just like our Corporatist society here in America where the underclass does all the work and the wealthy just collect the fruits of our labor. I guess you like Socialism as long as the "greater good" is Corporate America, Congress, and their well paid cronies. No wonder you love to partner with a Communist Regime, Corporate America and our corrupt supreme court is trying to model our system after it.. Hmmm what happened to all our farms? Oh that's right corporate subsidies to corporate farms killed them all. What happened to running your own business - oh yes Wal-Mart pays of city boards to put them under, what happened to manufacturing...What happened to being a doctor or nurse (Oh yes the HMO's and hospitals began to dictate how to care for patients and how to cut out good care for cheaper care... you know the answers - Guess that's why we're all shuffling papers now or working in the service sector -

if you think I think Obama is on my side you have me laughing btw I voted third party - he's been helping sign the middleclass death warrant right alongside both left and right members of Congress - they are all the same = RICH and out of touch with what made this country strong - good paying UNION jobs that can't be outsourced and a majority middle class. not some f'd up caste system - America was great because it had upward mobility not stagnant wages and overpriced rent.

I suppose then you work hard beppe - let's here what you do for a living why can't you see what may be working for you is not working for the rest of America (Rich PARENTS perhaps) if not then what is it that makes you keep rallying a system that is broken??

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

So 'predatory and extractive' pass muster but you take exception to ''parasitic'' ?!!! Do you feel that it's okay for Corporations to organise and lobby but that the merest chance that workers can or should get organised, elicits such a response from you ?!! Screw Corporations - ''They cause wealth inequality and outsourcing through selfish policy.'' - did you see what I did there ?!

You need to stop singing to 0.01% tunes or declare your libertopian corporate allegiances.

ad iudicium ...

[-] 0 points by beppe (-87) 1 year ago

Yoonyenz are the tyranny.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

All America Rights were achieved by people coming together and organising against tyranny, oppression and exploitation.

fiat lux ...

[-] -3 points by beppe (-87) 1 year ago

Keep cutting and pasting crap. I ain't looking at any of it.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Or course you're not !!! Your so called mind was made up for you a long time ago, lol !! However please keep giving me opportunities to inform others and good luck with extracting your definitely empty head from your probably fat ass, you Randian Corporate Shill !

temet nosce ...

[-] 1 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

the rabid rage of those opposing upward mobility - why are you so angry?? I don't want any of your wealth (if that describes you) I / we/ occupy wants A Fair Playing Field - where the deck isn't stacked I don't even want a minimum wage increase because a dollar more an hour really doesn't do anything accept make Congress look better to the millions of struggling Americans- it's for show - What I want is mass unionization of the jobs that can't be outsourced - the people want to negotiate our own wages. We want to let the free market decide. Say you even lower taxes - it won't matter - Monopolies will want that extra you now have to spare and they will raise commodity prices and increase costs on goods so that you'll still be status quo - we need a momumental shift / rebalance of the markets and wages to replace lost manufacturing union jobs - that in my opinion is the retail and service sector (even the government and Wall Street states service sector are the jobs of the future) . We need family feeding *Union Negotiated* wages that will make those future jobs deserving of any accolades.We also need a way to dilute some of these mega-corps massive pyramid of profits - they are not trickling anything down and what they stockpile - they use to bribe our government. That's a problem! Perhaps if they didn't have so much extra laying around to use for evil and instead gave it to their workers (who would stimulate the economy with their extra wages through shopping) then the economy would begin to come out of the hole these monopolies have caused, and begin to function again.

[+] -5 points by beppe (-87) 1 year ago

The free market HAS decided.

Screw unions. They steal dues from workers and send it to candidates in Washington DC that workers don't necessarily agree with, and the worker has no recourse. That's very unAmerican. Speaking of bribing government, unions are the ones who bribe government with worker dues, where the worker has no choice in the matter.

Unions stack the deck. They confiscate the worker's paycheck against their will. I'm angry because fools like you suggest unAmerican measures when your coordinated theft stops working for you. A selective minimum wage for one company, but not another based on your decisions is wholly unAmerican.

If you want more wages, better yourself, get an education and work your way up the ladder like everyone else instead of trying to take shortcuts and bully people to fork more money over to you without you doing anything except harassing them.

Finally, everything unions touch turns to shit: steel, airlines, auto companies, U.S. manufacturing are all largely broken, bankrupt or offshored thanks to unions.

Who the hell in their right mind would give unions another chance to f-up even more? Oh, I know. Public unions! Now they (SEIU, AFT, etc) are breaking the backs of tax payers with their multi-billion pensions that will never be paid. Too many promises for too little work.

[-] 5 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

Lobbying has decided, unlimited campaign donations has decided....you know what seems UnAmerican to me? Student interest rates at 8 percent and a college that charges so much you will pay it back - a second mortgage for the whole of your adult life only to find out your field is the next to get outsourced and you can only get a job part time at WalMart for 6 dollars an hour....we bail out industry because industry has been greasing government pockets for so long they can't live without eachother their codependent dysfunctional relationship dictates their actions now...including OUTSOURCING....the ladder has no rungs beppe...and the wealthy were already at the tip of the pyramid throwing bricks at us long ago. A 25 dollar union due from an 800 -1500 dollar paycheck...unlike taxes at least you get something for you money a decent wage and protection from beligerent wealthy employers who think because you didn't shell out for a degree deserve no part in the American dream and are just a servant - but as you said - unions stack the deck in our favor.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2013/04/17/walmart-pays-workers-poorly-and-sinks-while-costco-pays-workers-well-and-sails-proof-that-you-get-what-you-pay-for/

[-] -3 points by beppe (-87) 1 year ago

Hey, it was Obama who took the private sector out of the equation on student loans and nationalized the whole damn thing. You socialists got what you wanted. Stop complaining.

The sooner you learn that everything Uncle Sham gets his hands into he screws up, the better. The beatings will continue until awareness improves. Your problems are the result of Washington DC.

BTW, I have a great job... but my degree isn't in psychology, basket weaving or womens studies.

[-] 3 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

Stop subsidizing college sure...but the banks might have a heart attack; They are the real profiteers of that gravy train....college, housing, all of it- all those subsidies profit banks and industry, which is why government won't let them fail - stop subsidizing... and how much profit will industry and banks lose?...a lot ...I agree - end subsidies - costs will fall you'll pay for it like a loaf of bread and it will be based on the actual market as would housing, and we wouldn't have to mortgage our lives to afford them

[-] -3 points by beppe (-87) 1 year ago

The banks are already having heart attacks. Where have you been the last few years

http://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/banklist.html

If you want college subsidies to end, then I guess you have a bone to pick with all your fellow OWS'ers. Well, get to it.

[-] 4 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

for subsidies to end we need a working economy and good paying jobs - you've thrown them to the wolves outsourced all their jobs stagnated their pay and now want to see them starve in the street ?

The jobs have left, we've been told they aren't coming back, there are no longer enough jobs (I think on average 100 people apply to every opening) and now, that they are left clinging to the side of the lifeboat, you want to kick them in the face and watch them die because you were lucky enough to get on first or be privileged enough to have a spot reserved...or be the beneficiary of this f'd up system

[-] -2 points by beppe (-87) 1 year ago

No, YOU'VE done that by pushing asinine economic policies.

We've been throwing massive amounts of welfare and free money at the inner shitties since LBJ's "great society" in the early 60's was implemented. Fifty years later, they're still shitholes. How many more chances do you leeches want???

Screw the lifeboat and the safety net. They're now hammocks. You've abused the system and the tax payer.

But hey, at least you have free Obamacare now! Howzat working out???

[-] 2 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

Maybe they're still shitholes because welfare is merely a band-aid on an economic system that is fixed to benefit only a certain segment of the population aka monopolies and rich politicians who benefit from that money when it's put back in the economy when spent that came from tax payers pockets but who are not willing to pay live-able wages or keep jobs in the country so that people who want to work hard can get by...this economy is encouraging so many people to give up - how can it not - go fill out a Staples application online beppe (do me this one favor) - tell me you're not frustrated ... go wait at a job fair with hundreds of people for hours... send out 500 resumes to lower wage paying jobs and tell me on average how long it takes to get a call back. Live it first and then tell me that you think it's not easier to give up??

Aside from which taxes have nothing to do with this issue - I get my check and for work full time for a small business, my pay is pretty good if you compare it to other companies, but at the end of the day I'm still struggling - becauseI can't afford what Wall Street is selling. If they were to lower my taxes, it would help a bit (and yes they are throwing billions at wars for foreign oil at the expense of our soldiers so the war profiteers can sell them an 8.00 coke...so it sure gets me angry that so much of my tax goes to Welfare goes to Wall Street (also giamunga construction - bid-offs where you see 30 guys standing around a hole) because they know the right people...not to mention how they don't work all winter and claim unemployment every off season even while raking in lots of dough on the regular season - far more than most people make in a year enough to be driving around in those $50000 trucks that disappear from the roads all winter) - but I hardly want to blame the little old spanish man I saw today in the heat gathering cans from people's garbage to survive as you do...it's the system that is broken... welfare is the result not the cause - you have it backwards.

And NOOO- not happy that we now have mandated health that's being filtered through insurance companies so they can rake off the top of the taxpayers - it's bullshit too. But another example of big business and government partnerships that rape the taxpayer and give very little back in resources to the people who are shelling out.

[-] 1 points by TikiJ (-38) 1 year ago

Throwing money at a problem doesnt solve it.

Hammocks? Thats grand. What an ignorant statement. Abuse, yes? Increasing abuse? Yes. Hammocks? No.

Those failed banks are gobbled up by the big six, which was the plan to begin with. Consolidate. Everything.
Obamacare was a dumb idea when Republicans introduced it years ago, its a dumb idea now.

This isnt a free market. Its a computer generated, centrally planned scam bent on sucking the life out of people so they are easier to control.

Anything else that is completely ridiculous you would like to spit?

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Beppe's been talking nothing but shit for four days. Waste of time. But hey, the forum's kinda slow anyway, so have at 'im, heheh.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (26805) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (5840) from St Louis, MO 14 minutes ago

True. I've laughed more than once at his, ahem, 'humor.'

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

ahem humor - I am not so sure that was the intent - though quite often the result. {:-])

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Bippy doesn't strike me as having a sense of humor. Well, maybe a twisted one. Matches his worldview.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (26805) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Beppe - if nothing else - is - comic relief.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Relief from what? We are currently at war.

I know it's hard to maintain the anger, but the front remains.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

True. I've laughed more than once at his, ahem, 'humor.'

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26805) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (5844) from St Louis, MO 14 minutes ago

Bippy doesn't strike me as having a sense of humor. Well, maybe a twisted one. Matches his worldview.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

" Bippy doesn't strike me as having a sense of humor. "

True - but it does not stop the idiot from being humorous - in a sad way granted.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Yep. Shills are often humorous in their own disturbing way.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26805) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

@ Builder ( no reply button )

[-] 2 points by Builder (4234) 13 minutes ago

Relief from what? We are currently at war.

I know it's hard to maintain the anger, but the front remains.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Well - when one lives in a constant state of stress/crisis - one has a tendency to develop a gallows/dark humor - psyche self defense (?) - and an idiot such as beppe and friends provide a natural source of humor - pitiful humor - but humor at them none the less.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26805) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (5844) from St Louis, MO 1 minute ago

Yep. Shills are often humorous in their own disturbing way.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Disturbing is all they can be - so the humor ( on our part ) has got to be dark/gallows humor at their being lost.

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

It's not just for Walmart. Apparently you have reading comprehension problems yourself. It's for any retailer with over a billion in sales.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (26805) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

This Post is not about government stepping in to require a living wage.

The Post is talking about legal union labor negotiations.

If a workers union can get wallfart to pay 16.00 to 30.00 bucks an Hour to their employees - More Power to the Union.

[-] 3 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

she's trying to spread mis-information - confusion is often a tactic used by the powers that be to propagandize (she gave us her cards. pay attention to the tactics being used - it will give us insight further down the road)

beppe - if people and corporations can no longer negotiate their terms or make contracts than what kind of system is this ?

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (26805) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

OH I knew that bippy was a shill - just thought I would put out real thoughts to counteract some of it's cra - - - um - - - misinformation . . . disinformation . . dis-ingeniousness.

[-] 3 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

let's ask before we judge - beppe - give us some background please? who are you, what do you do for a living - how is the ecnomy working (or not working) for you? Perhaps we can answer some questions, persuade you in areas that we can agree, find out what exact standpoint it is you are or may be representing?

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by Veracity777 (-9) 1 year ago

Walmart has profits of about $15 billion per year. It isn't a cash cow, it's a growth cow, or it used to be. There isn't a lot of money there for high minimum wages. If you raise wages, you are just gonna see higher prices, which hurts low income families.

It will never be unionized. It's not a value added business. Neither are fast food joints. Manufacturing is value added, so it can handle higher wages.

[-] -3 points by georgyz (-16) 1 year ago

Oh yes...$30.00 an hour for swiping a can of tuna fish through a scanner...that will now cost you $9.00 to buy...in order to pay the salary of the chuckle-head union worker.

What an ingenious plan. You fucking union morons never cease to amaze.

[-] 4 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I think the moron is actually you.

You don't seem to have any idea of how corporatocracy or kleptocracy is panning out in your world.

More pain, for you.

[-] 3 points by elf3 (2671) 1 year ago

not so - when the customers complain, and the company can no longer lower the workers wages ...they have to pay maybe their CEO less - or cut back on their Porsche collection (or underground compound in the case of the Waltons) so customers just need to get off their lazy duffs and complain about the pricing or boycott - when enough people do, they will have to do it. Perhaps we should give the CEO the turn on being targeted for "loss prevention procedures" how Wal-Mart labels anti-union strategies. And I would add if Wal-Mart targets it's workers as a cost cutting procedure - in seeing the great pocketed wealth of those in charge - perhaps customers should express a bit of outrage at that -

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/06/07/2120711/walmarts-low-wages-cost-taxpayers-millions-each-year/

People who want to work and have jobs can't get paid enough to live...while the Waltons roll around in their money - how come you don't find that outrageous georgyz? You took the time to post here - feel like writing Wal-Mart corporate ...maybe start a petition on change.org - google the percent of profit they make compared to employee pay?