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Forum Post: REPORT : "United States Engaged In The Practice Of Torture", by Jesselyn Radack

Posted 5 years ago on April 26, 2013, 10:01 a.m. EST by shadz66 (19985)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

i) "United States Engaged in the Practice of Torture : Report"

by Jesselyn Radack.

"Constitution Project's Task Force on Detainee Treatment Does What Government Won't"

The 'Constitution Project's Task Force on Detainee Treatment', is an independent, non-partisan group that produced a report comprehensively documenting the United States' descent into torture.

The Task Force released a 600-page report.

Among the Report's many conclusions :

  • "U.S. forces, in many instances, used interrogation techniques on detainees that constitute torture. American personnel conducted an even larger number of interrogations that involved “cruel, inhuman, or degrading” treatment. Both categories of actions violate U.S. laws and international treaties. Such conduct was directly counter to values of the Constitution and our nation."


  • "There is no firm or persuasive evidence that the widespread use of harsh interrogation techniques by U.S. forces produced significant information of value. There is substantial evidence that much of the information adduced from the use of such techniques was not useful or reliable."

The Senate Intelligence Committee approved its own 6,000 page report,

which similarly concludes that torture occurred and was ineffective at gleaning intelligence, but Congress refused to release the report publicly. Shame on Congress.

Along the same vein, the Obama administration has said it wants to "look forward, not backward" on torture, and the Justice Department has declined to prosecute any of the government officials who ordered torture, the doctors who supervised it, the lawyers who justified it, or the agents who actually tortured people. Shame on the Obama administration.

The Justice Department instead chose to prosecute CIA whistleblower John Kiriakou, who refused to participate in torture and helped exposed the torture program :

The Task Force places much of the blame for torture on the high-level officials that ordered and authorized the practices, but finds that culpability also lies with the lawyers who rationalized torture. The report found that :

  • "Lawyers in the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) repeatedly gave erroneous legal sanction to certain activities that amounted to torture and cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment in violation of U.S. and international law, and in doing so, did not properly serve their clients : the president and the American people."

Under Attorney General Eric Holder, the Justice Department absolved the torture memo authors (Jay Bybee and John Yoo) of any professional accountability for torture.

The Task Force was also critical of the excessive secrecy surrounding the torture program :

  • ''The high level of secrecy surrounding the rendition and torture of detainees since September 11 cannot continue to be justified on the basis of national security''.

If national security is no longer a justification for secrecy, as the Task Force concludes, then the only reason for continued secrecy is to cover-up torture and cover for the officials who perpetuated the torture program & I've written about the lengths to which the executive branch - particularly the CIA - has gone to protect and promote torturers.

M.K.Gandhi said : "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members."

We have been protecting the wrong people.


Jesselyn Radack is the director of National Security & Human Rights at the Government Accountability Project. www.pinterest.com/jesselynradack


ii) "Blue Ribbon Task Force : U.S. Tortured Detainees - Leaders Responsible",

by Alexander Abdo (Staff Attorney, ACLU National Security Project)

Nearly two years ago, a non-partisan, constitutional think tank called the Constitution Project assembled its blue-ribbon Task Force on Detainee Treatment to examine the treatment of detainees in the years following 9/11. Today, the Task Force released its report—a 550-page, comprehensive condemnation of the role of senior Bush administration officials in the torture and abuse of prisoners in U.S. custody.

Before getting to the report's findings, it's worth highlighting two things about the Task Force.

First, the Task Force was composed of an impressive array of former government officials, members of the armed services, politicians, diplomats, and professors. To give just a few examples, it included: Asa Hutchinson (a former Arkansas Congressman who served in President Bush's administration), David Irvine (a retired Army brigadier general who taught interrogation and military law for 18 years), Claudia Kennedy (the first woman to achieve the rank of three-star general in the Army), Thomas Pickering (a retired ambassador with a diplomatic career spanning five decades), and William Sessions (the former director of the FBI under Presidents Reagan, Bush I, and Clinton).

Here's how the Task Force describes its members:

  • "The Task Force members include Democrats and Republicans; those who are thought to be conservatives and those thought to be liberals; people with experience in and sensitivity to national security issues and those who have an understanding that the government's reach and authority is subject to both tradition and law to appropriate limits."

In other words, the Task Force members crossed ideological and political divides.

Second, the Task Force reviewed countless pages of government documents relating to detainee treatment, including many of the approximately 150,000 pages of government torture documents obtained by the ACLU through years of Freedom of Information Act litigation. (You can read those primary-source materials in our Torture Database, the single most comprehensive and searchable repository of the government's own documents showing how the Bush administration's torture policies were formulated and the devastating impact on the victims and this nation's commitment to the rule of law.)

Also, importantly, the Task Force interviewed around 100 individuals involved in the U.S. detention and interrogation program: service members, interrogators, former detainees, lawyers, and politicians, among others.

What did this thorough and impressively staffed Task Force conclude?

It issued 24 findings, but the first two are the most essential. It concluded first "that it is indisputable that the United States engaged in the practice of torture." And second that "[t]he nation's most senior officials...bear ultimate responsibility for allowing and contributing to the spread of illegal and improper interrogation techniques."

Of course, these two findings are not new. We and many others have pointed out for years that our country tortured detainees after 9/11 and that senior members of the Bush administration were responsible. Now, however, a bipartisan, blue-ribbon task force - composed of experienced military members, interrogators, politicians, and professors - has added its considered judgement to those conclusions.

In its many recommendations, the Task Force has also joined the call for our leaders to acknowledge the torture that took place after 9/11, to disclose important but still secret documents relating to that torture, and to cooperate with pending investigations and lawsuits in the United States and abroad.

We wholeheartedly agree with these core conclusions and recommendations of the Task Force. Without taking these first steps toward reckoning with the torture that took place in our name, our nation will not be able to move beyond our shameful legacy of torture.


Finally, further consider :

Both items above, copied under ''Fair Use'' from : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34640.htm & use this url to access all the essential corroborative links. This is a complex issue and important report and these two items above, have very far reaching ramifications and are also alluded to here :

fiat lux ; fiat pax ; fiat justitia ruat caelum ...



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[-] 6 points by Renneye (3874) 5 years ago

Excellent thread!!

There is much on this subject, in this link as well...


and, though indirectly related, but pertinent to the larger scope of the human condition, the global torture of its every day citizens through 'Modern Day Slavery'.

Torture is globally indoctrinated as acceptable. In the US, torture of inmates...under 'National Security'. US prison system as 'rehabilitation'. Global slavery as 'making a living'. It is shocking what explanations can be 'sold' to a busy and unthinking populace.


[-] 4 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 3 years ago

''The Rank, Reeking Horror of Torturing Some Folks", by William River-Pitt :

An unpleasant link about an unpleasant matter but nevertheless, the best wishes of Yule, Xmas, Solstice, Hanukkah & New Year @ you and yours.

pax et lux et pacem in terris ...

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

"It is shocking, what explanations can be 'sold' to a busy and unthinking populace." Ditto and thanx for the important cross referencing links to those very good forum-posts and threads.

Re. ''Torture is globally indoctrinated as acceptable. In the US, torture of inmates...under 'National Security'. US prison system as 'rehabilitation'. Global slavery as 'making a living'.'' - I agree and append the following re. your final clause :

qui tacet consentire ...

[-] 6 points by Renneye (3874) 5 years ago

Thanks Shadz, for these skillfully chosen and impelling articles.

from Vijay Prashad ~

~ "Attempts to shift the needle of exploitation have been thwarted by concerted government pressure and the advantages of assassination. Whatever decent lurks in Bangladesh’s Labour Act is eclipsed by weak enforcement by the Ministry of Labour’s Inspections Department. There are only eighteen inspectors and assistant inspectors to monitor 100,000 factories in the Dhaka area, where most of the garment factories are located. If an infraction is detected, the fines are too low to generate any reforms. When workers try to form unions, the harsh response from the management is sufficient to curtail their efforts. Management prefers the anarchic outbreaks of violence to the steady consolidation of worker power. In fact, the violence led the Bangladeshi government to create a Crisis Management Cell and an Industrial Police not to monitor violations of labour laws, but to spy on worker organisers. In April 2012, agents of capital kidnapped Aminul Islam, one of the key organisers of the Bangladesh Center for Worker Solidarity. He was found dead a few days later, his body littered with the marks of torture."~

Ludicrous, right? The mass acceptance of the subterfuge the 0.01% create to usher in more corruption under the guise of watch dog or regulatory agencies defies logic...yet it persists.

To demand from these 'people' (0.01%), to treat us fairly is anywhere from foolish to suicidal. Tantamount to begging a shark not to kill the baby seal that swims from side to side in front of it's nose. The hardened 0.01% simply do not have the capacity to love their fellow human beings. They will devour whatever it is they think they need to survive.

Or, it is like trying to reason with a hurricane to 'please' avoid a highly populated area to minimize loss of life. To the 0.01%, we are in their way. The hurricane has no mercy. It will take its path irrelevant of anything ...and, so too will the 0.01%.

Your well chosen articles only further strengthens my conviction that our world will only improve when it is in the hands of the people. A 'People's Society'.

Yes, silence is taken as consent. But, once the populace has been made aware, it turns into silent complicity. Surely by now, those days must be numbered. It is time to look inward.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

The death toll in Dhaka, Bangladesh from the factory building collapse has sadly now exceeded 800 :

Many thanx for the highly relevant excerpt and your very thought provoking observations. It is also high time to educate, agitate and organise, towards ''A People's Society'' fit for the 99% & the 21st Century :

Finally, RIP Aminul Islam, your struggle is our struggle & your family's & colleagues' loss is our loss :

http://www.aflcio.org/Blog/Global-Action/Bangladesh-1-Year-Later-Murderer-of-Aminul-Islam-Still-Free &

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/05/01/1205938/-WE-NEVER-FORGET-Aminul-Islam-Labor-Martyr-of-Bangladesh - & excerpted below as a salutary warning to American and Global workers everywhere :

"Bangladesh is country where less than 1 percent of the workers are represented by unions while 10 percent of parliament is composed of garment factory owners. The police and the national security agents have been given a free hand to suppress labor activism of any kind. Bangladesh is the second largest exporter of clothing in the world. Companies in the United States receive 80% of these exports''.

veritas vos liberabit ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

Here is a list of companies that refuse to sign the Bangladesh Factory Safety Accord:


[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

Proof positive from your excellent link that The Corporations and their their Twisted Crapitalism are out of control and detrimental to the well being of humans everywhere. Then Consider :

''Big U.S. corporations have long demanded a legal system where they are defined as “people,” so as to get all of our constitutional rights while they expand their privileged powers and immunities. Well, why don’t we measure them by the many patriotic standards that we apply to ourselves, the real American people. Getting these giant firms on the defensive is the first step for the resurgence of the people so that corporations become our servants and do not remain our masters.'' from :

Solidarity to you bw in all u do & @ OWS & The 99%. Together we are stronger.

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 6 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

"The Corporations and their their Twisted Crapitalism are out of control and detrimental to the well being of humans everywhere."

Well said, Shadz.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

''Economic Development and Rana Plaza'', by Prof. Richard D. Wolff :

multum in parvo ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

"Twenty-first century global capitalism thus rests on nineteenth century conditions for more and more of its core proletariat."

"The issue in global economic development today is not whether former colonies and semi-colonial territories have legitimate claims to "help" in their passage from poverty to wellbeing. Of course they do. The issue is how those claims are to be satisfied. The current method stresses capitalism's competitive investments in the former colonies. A radically changed economic system in the former colonizing countries would enable a different way of satisfying those claims. Suppose a genuine socialist commitment to full employment become policy in the US and Europe. Suppose further that governments provided capital for workers' cooperatives to be the prevailing organization of state and private enterprises securing that full employment. A good portion of the resulting output could facilitate much better economic development in the former colonies, including support for workers cooperatives there as enterprise organizations." Richard Wolff.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 years ago

''A Socialism for the 21st Century'', by Prof. Richard D. Wolff :

''Imagine democratic enterprises interacting with democratic residential communities - economic and political democracies reinforcing one another and making one another real, not merely formal. Jointly they would co-determine how society functions and changes. That vision and goal animates a socialism for the 21st century. It builds upon, while also critically departing from, traditional socialism's contradictory history. It embodies the aspirations of all those who contemplate the present in the spirit of knowing that we can do better than capitalism.''

dum spiro, spero ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

We definitely can do better than capitalism.

"Real wage stagnation, deepening wealth and income inequalities, unsustainable debt levels and export of jobs have been prevailing trends in those areas."

Why wouldn't we want to fix these problems which are inevitable legacies of capitalism?

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 years ago

Here's a little more insight into your very pertinent question if not exactly a fully comprehensive answer :

''Today's labor news, complete with manufactured outrage and attacks on a government agency that protects workers - and our economy and democracy - are just part of a long tradition of giving power to the rich and taking away legal rights of the poor.'' from :

What we all need is across the board solidarity and to identify with each others' struggles in order to realise the commonalities and congruences and see that only solidarity and organisation can advance our common cause. Here's a good article that touches on this by someone who you may recognise :

Together We Are Stronger ; United We Stand ; Divided We Fall ... & we've been falling for far too long !!!

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

That student activism article is very inspiring to me as I truly believe it will be up to the younger generations to make lasting change. It almost always is and many young people today have their eyes wide open and are quite aware of what is going on around them.

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 years ago

Yes, it is the younger generation which will make the real changes we need and we will be answerable to them and our consciences as to what we did to try to avert the socio-economic, environmental and ecological crisis that faces us all today and tomorrow. Thus we seek to educate, inform and inspire them today with a view to all our tomorrows.

per aspera ad astra ...


[-] 3 points by Renneye (3874) 5 years ago

Yes, Zen...I've been watching the exemplary work that you and GirlFriday have been doing together on this matter.

These indeed are all very relevant links. Thanks kindly for sharing them here.

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 years ago

''Happy Birthday : US Gulag 12 Years Old Today - Guantánamo's Anniversary - And There's No End In Sight'', by Morris Davis :

''Guantanamo Bay - The Hunger Strikes'' (Animation) :

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] 4 points by prospector22 (185) from Brooklyn, NY 4 years ago

The Guantanamo gulag is a stain on our whole society.

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 years ago

But sadly, NOT the only stain and thus, fyi :

''Democracy and accountable government simply does not exist when the executive branch can take a country to wars in behalf of secret agendas operating behind cover stories that are transparent lies.

''It is just as important to ask these same questions about the agenda of the US police state. Why have Bush and Obama removed the protection of law as a shield of the people and turned law into a weapon in the hands of the executive branch? How are Americans made safer by the overthrow of their civil liberties? Indefinite detention and execution without due process of law are the hallmarks of the tyrannical state. They are terrorism, not a protection against terrorism. Why is every communication of every American and apparently the communications of most other people in the world, including Washington’s most trusted European allies, subject to being intercepted and stored in a gigantic police state database? How does this protect Americans from terrorists?'' & also fyi :

''Though Americans commonly believe law enforcement’s role in society is to protect them and ensure peace and stability within the community, the sad reality is that police departments are often more focused on enforcing laws, making arrests and issuing citations. As a result of this as well as an increase in militarized policing techniques, Americans are eight times more likely to be killed by a police officer than by a terrorist, estimates a Washington’s Blog report based on official statistical data.''

e tenebris, lux et fiat pax ...

[-] 2 points by billary (7) 4 years ago

Damn good question, Shadz. Bush gave us Patriot Act and 0bama followed up with indef detention. This should be a bipartisan grassroots battle. The one two punch of no privacy and a standing army "protecting" us should have everyone in the streets

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 years ago

Yes, IF USUKers weren't 'mind managed' and all but farmed as supine saps by the 'political system' and its corporate MSM, all in service to The Military-Industrial-Security-Incarceration-Complex !!! & consider :

Servility in the face of such oppression is complicity in our own incarceration and would beggar belief IF we allowed ourselves to stop and actually think about our predicament, however with less than 6 weeks to Christ-mash, we're all too busy shopping, buying and coveting - to contemplate what it may mean to be free. They only 'freedom' TPTB wish us to focus on is our freedom to keep borrowing from them and buying their shit and racking up ever more compound interest, whilst remaining ignorant and scared !!!

verum ex absurdo ...

[-] -1 points by billary (7) 4 years ago

It closes in 2017 after we elect a decent President

[-] 1 points by prospector22 (185) from Brooklyn, NY 4 years ago

Hopefully it closes before then.

[-] -1 points by billary (7) 4 years ago

You still "hoping" for "change"?

[-] 1 points by prospector22 (185) from Brooklyn, NY 4 years ago

I'm not naive in "hoping" the President will close down the gulag in in Guantanamo. I guess my 'hope' is based on the American people having a moral awakening and outrage...and yes we both know that is a long-shot for that to happen any time soon.


[-] 5 points by TheRoot (305) from New York, NY 5 years ago

The estimate is that over a million Iraqis have died because of the U.S. War of Necessity. Commons sense tells me that I don't need, an "impressive array of former government officials, members of the armed services, politicians, diplomats, and professors" to tell me the U.S. tortures too. Of course they will. The nut job, psychopaths in the US Military annihilated one million people.

[-] 5 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 3 years ago

''CIA defenders are out in force now that a historic report has exposed a decade of horrific American shame. Torture didn’t work, but why aren’t the architects of torture in jail?'' from :

''If there is one tragic story, out of the many, that is emblematic of the CIA program, as its supporters defend it in the days, it’s that of Gul Ruhman. It may be two stories – it’s hard to know, so much has been redacted and the atrocities are so countless – but at least one Gul Ruhman we know was tortured at the notorious CIA black site known as the Salt Pit, chained to the floor and frozen to death. The CIA’s inspector general referred this person’s case to CIA leadership for discipline, but was overruled. Four months after the incident, the officer who gave the order that led to Rahman’s death was recommended for a $2,500 “cash reward” for his “consistently superior work”. - Footnote 32 explains why a dead prisoner ended up in CIA custody in the first place: “Gul Ruhman, another case of mistaken identity.”

Furthermore, for folk like me who do NOT accept the ''Official 9/!! Commission'' CONspiracy .. all this CIA b-s really is like a splinter in the mind. Finally, these days - just who is ''terrorising'' who exactly ?!

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

You're so right and consider : ''Lawyer who drafted White House drone policy says US would rather kill suspects than send them to Cuban detention centre'' & ...

fiat lux ; fiat pax ; fiat justitia ...

[-] 3 points by TheRoot (305) from New York, NY 5 years ago

There are "Lives In The Balance". Thank you.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

''Lives In The Balance'' sums it up & you're welcome & further please enjoy :

Solidarity 'TR' ... keep going there ;-)

multum in parvo ...

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Ambiguous - Much?

[-] 3 points by TheRoot (305) from New York, NY 5 years ago

sorry. Jackson Browne (Crosby, Nash and Lindley) in the song, "Lives in the Balance" from your post's reference to Time to Renounce the War on Terror" Referring to: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34727.htm

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Much better.


Should be called war to cause terror - at least on those civilians who survive.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

"Shaker Aamer: My fight for justice in Guantánamo," The Guardian, June 14, 2013.

Shaker Aamer has never been charged with any wrongdoing and was cleared for release by the Bush administration in 2007, and the Obama administration in 2009, but remains in Guantánamo.

Aamer says "Killing innocent people for an idea, whether on London's streets or from the skies of Pakistan, is always wrong."

"We cannot establish justice by committing injustice. Evil begets evil.

But at the same time, goodwill brings goodwill. Misguided people will always commit misguided acts, but we do not need to live as if it might happen to each of us every day. Yet the US is still living the 9/11 nightmare. Guards on my block here in Guantánamo, who were just eight years old at the time of the attacks, now treat me as if I blew up the World Trade Centre. Why have we passed this nightmare to the next generation? They have been taught to hate. This is driving the world away from reconciliation. Our children are being taught to live in the past, not the future."

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 years ago

Extremely strong comment and great excerpts. Sigh and thanx bw & here's the link for others to read :

Solidarity @ you and yours as we all 'struggleforfreedom' and await 'therising' towards a 'beautifulworld'.

pax ...

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

Thanks for the great links. Shaker Aamer is very articulate. I found what he had to say very interesting and uplifting. If we could all just overcome our fear and hatred....

And, thanks for the links.

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 years ago

Thanx for raising this. Shaker Aamer's compassion in the face of oppression is, as you say ''uplifting'' :

fiat lux, fiat pax et fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

"In June 2007, Shaker was told that he was cleared for release, because the Bush administration acknowledged that it had no evidence against him, but he was not freed."

That was 6 years ago.

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 years ago

That shocking fact alone shows to what depths the rule of law has plummeted in the US. For further insights into this, shudder and consider :

multum in parvo ...

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

I've attached a link here to Russian Television's "Breaking the Set." Toward the end of the episode, Abby Martin highlights the forced feeding torture going on at Gitmo.


[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 years ago

Thanx for the great link & no wonder Edward Snowden wishes to stay out of reach of such behaviour :

fiat lux ...

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

Edward Snowden: "I believe in the principle declared at Nuremberg in 1945: "Individuals have international duties which transcend the national obligations of obedience. Therefore individual citizens have the duty to violate domestic laws to prevent crimes against peace and humanity from occurring."

Thanks for the links. :)

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 years ago

''Growing Backlash Against NSA Spying Shows Why U.S. Wants to Silence Edward Snowden - Glenn Greenwald'' (An excellent Democracy Now! Video) :

The NSA admitted their analysis of phone records and online behaviour far exceeded what it had previously disclosed. "The fact that you now see members of both political parties increasingly angry over the fact that they were misled and lied to by top level Obama administration officials, that the laws that they enacted in the wake of 9/11 -- as broad as they were -- are being incredibly distorted by secret legal interpretations approved by secret courts, really indicates exactly that Snowden's motives to come forward with these revelations, at the expense of his liberty and even his life, were valid and compelling," Greenwald says. Thanx btw bw & trust you to extract the killer excerpt that you quote above. Further :

caveat ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

Politicians are not worried that they were misled by the NSA. They are worried about their own privacy and their own moral turpitude that might come out through a look at their online behavior. LOL.

Did you see this? The NSA is so harmless and well-behaved, my, they claim they can't even search their own emails. What a crock of s--t!

"NSA Says It Can't Search Its Own Emails" Mother Jones


[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 years ago

NSfknA can't search their own e-mails !!! LOL !! So unbelievable as to be both sinister and hilarious ! I'll bet they had a laugh and a half at Anthony Weiner's file if not the cosmically unlikely combination of his name and personal predilections lol and I did see that NSA news article via the ICH and even copied to someone here, as is my wont. I'll do the same here with these eye opening articles too :

spero meliora ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

As I think about this, I think the truth is that they only "fake" search all of us in order to "justify" all the wars and military spending and self-enrichment. They also use the data for marketing and brainwashing purposes.

There is very little real searching going on because there is very little of anything real to search. It's all just another ruse. Our government has overstepped it's bounds and proves it's illegitimacy at every turn.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 years ago

Very astute comment and hopefully your'e right but also apparently, ''for the first time since 9/11, Americans are now more worried about civil liberties abuses than terrorism'' :

''Just as Democrats went from vehement critics of Bush's due-process-free War on Terror policies to vocal cheerleaders of Obama's drone kills and even Guantanamo imprisonments, the leading defenders of the NSA specifically and America's Surveillance State generally are now found among self-identified Democrats. That was embodied by how one of the most vocal Democratic NSA critics during the Bush years - Nancy Pelosi - in almost single-handedly saved the NSA from last week's House vote. If someone had said back in 2007 that the greatest support for NSA surveillance would be found among Democrats, many would find the very idea ludicrous. But such is life in the Age of Obama: one of his most enduring legacies is transforming his party from pretend-opponents of the permanent National Security State into its most enthusiastic supporters.''

caveat actor ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

Loss of economic opportunity leads to loss of civil liberty.

And, from Greenwald "But with a few rare and noble exceptions, the Intelligence Committees in both houses of Congress are filled with precisely those members who are most slavishly beholden to, completely captured by, the intelligence community over which they supposedly serve as watchdogs. Many receive large sums of money from the defense and intelligence industries."

Greed makes decent people become wretched.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

Abby Martin on Susan Rice on RT's "Breaking the Set." This is heavy duty stuff that everyone must watch:


[-] 4 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 3 years ago

''I believe that all faith traditions and secular societies need to work together and teach the way of non-violence as a way of living, also as a political science and means for bringing about social and political change wherever we live.

''A grave responsibility lies with the different religious traditions to give spiritual guidance and a clear message, particularly on the questions of economic injustice, ‘armed resistance‘, arms, militarism and war.'' From ..

Thanx for your excellent Abby Martin link .. she rocks ! Here's wishing you & yours every festive good wishes. Solidarity.

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22863) 3 years ago

"Peace is a beautiful gift to have in life, and it is particularly treasured by those who have known violent conflict, war, famine, disease and poverty. I believe that Peace is a basic human right for every individual and all people.

Love for others and respect for their rights and their human dignity, irrespective of who or what they are, no matter what religion – or none – that they choose to follow, will bring about real change and set in motion proper relationships. With such relationships built on equality and trust, we can work together on so many of the threats to our common humanity." Mairead Maguire. Amen to that.

And, thank you Shadz66, ShadzSixtySix, mayda (recently), for all you've done here on this forum for over three years. The information you shared with us all is unmatched and your light and love and peace and joy and goodwill resonate here and will continue to resonate in the global movement that is Occupy Wall Street for years to come. For "Liberty cannot be preserved without general knowledge among the people."

[-] 1 points by mayda (285) 3 years ago

Indeed, "Liberty cannot be preserved without general knowledge among the people." (per John Adams - Second President - 1797 - 1801) and rather liberally purloined by me from the masthead of The Mighty ICH [ http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/ ].

You've been a graceful, gentle yet steadfast voice of reasoned compassion here bw, so your kind words are all the more touching. Solidarity to you and yours now, tomorrow and going forward and, re. the OP :

fiat lux et fiat justitia - ruat caelum ...


[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22863) 3 years ago

"The ACLU continued to fight the issue in court, and last August, Hellerstein ordered that the government needed to justify withholding each picture individually.

Six months later, the Pentagon has not done that – instead, government lawyers filed a motion in December repeating their position that all the photos were properly kept from the public. The government said that the Islamic State made use of past U.S. abuses when it executed hostages on camera, depicting them “in an orange jumpsuit – a symbol commonly associated with detainees housed at Guantanamo Bay,” and that Al Qaeda wrote about Guantanamo in a recent issue of its magazine Inspire." From the Currier piece.

It's absolutely wrong for the gov't to cover up the abuse and torture. It is against everything this nation is supposed to stand for. America is supposed to be a beacon of light, not darkness.

And, thanks for the kind words, :)

[-] 1 points by mayda (285) 3 years ago

A brief and crucial history of the USA ...

What starts with 'torture' invariably will end up with murder - often as not - of thousands or more :-(

Solidarity bw & see you in the trenches.

pax, amor et lux ...


[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 3 years ago

I really believe that what is done in the macro is done in the micro. Therefore, torture abroad is linked to police brutality here at home. Just as when we allow children abroad to be ever so victimized, as in Iraq and Pakistan, then it allows children here to be victimized, though to a lesser degree. Hence the lack of education for pre-schoolers and the 1 in 5 kids on food stamps, etc.

[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 3 years ago

we should all be on food stamps

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22863) 3 years ago

I agree. A basic minimum income for all. End the economic tyranny.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

Secret US court approved every single domestic spying request in 2012

Mussolini would be so Proud!!!


Mussolini's Corporatism had at least 2 elements: 1) Police State 2) Government Support of Corporate Oligarchs

Naomi Klein talks a lot in "Shock Doctrine" about how 1) Torture 2) Secret Prisons 3) Kidnaping of Citizens 4) Denial of Due Process... all might be required to support unpopular Regimes, unpopular Economic Programs ... and unpopular Privatization.

[-] 3 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 3 years ago

Sadly, Mussolini would approve of so much happening in The U$A these days & fyi :

The very best wishes of the season and solidarity @ you 'Ma' & hope all is well with.

pax ...

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

''The United States Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court quietly rubber stamped nearly 2,000 government requests to search or electronically monitor people in the United States last year, according to a Justice Department report published this week.'' &

''In February of this year the American Civil Liberties Union tried to sue the government in a bid to nullify the law. However, the Supreme Court ruled that, because the court proceedings are kept secret and the American Civil Liberties Union has no way to know if it’s been targeted by the FISA Act, they had no legal standing to sue.'' - excerpted from your very interesting link & thanx for a good point re Fascism.

Your point re. Naomi Klein's ''Shock Doctrine'' now effectively being in play in The U$A - is very strong because 'Disaster Capitalism' is pretty much where we are all at. Here's the doc. based on her book :

Documentary adaptation of Naomi Klein’s 2007 book, ''The Shock Doctrine - An investigation of disaster capitalism'', based on Naomi Klein’s proposition that neo-liberal capitalism feeds on natural disasters, war and terror to establish its dominance.

Based on breakthrough historical research and four years of on-the-ground reporting in disaster zones, 'The Shock Doctrine' vividly shows how disaster capitalism - the rapid-fire corporate re-engineering of societies still reeling from shock - did not begin with September 11, 2001.

The films traces its origins back fifty years, to the University of Chicago under Milton Friedman, which produced many of the leading neo-conservative and neo-liberal thinkers whose influence is still profound in Washington today.

New, surprising connections are drawn between economic policy, shock and awe warfare and covert CIA-funded experiments in electroshock and sensory deprivation in the 1950s, research that helped write the torture manuals used today in Guantanamo Bay. Thanx for your link and very relevant point here 'Ma'. Solidarity.

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 4 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

Good Stuff. I was reading in the book yesterday that Milton Freidman was not the first in the Chicago School to hold these views. It turns out that Freidman was very charismatic. Students loved to go to his classes in fact. The book is chuck full of stuff. I pulled some Wikipedia links on Friedman and the Chicago School last week to see how people and organizations were linked together.

There are tons of UK & USA Organizations set up to spread these Neoliberal Ideas. That is part of the reason that this Economic Policy of Deregulation, Privatization, Laissez Faire is so deep in our Universities and Banks.

In fact the Ford Foundation found itself knee deep in having trained the people behind dirty wars and Military Juntas in South America. Brazil, Uruguay, Chile, and Argentina. Amnesty International won a Nobel prize for documenting the secret prisons, disappearances, torture. The Ford Foundation cleaned up its act to focus on human rights I believe. Anyway Human Rights was code for speaking out against what was happening. You could not speak out directly against these regimes. Then I think human rights accusations were used by the CIA & US Government in political attacks against communist governments. So groups like Amnesty had to prove they were unbiased. They would all chose to support 3 prisoners, one in the USA, one in a communist country, and one in a third world country.

Anyway Human Rights groups would be followed and watched by the Juntas.

The Chicago boys were Latin American students of the Chicago School of Economics. They often set up the Juntas. And even a couple of Chicago Economists went to work for the Juntas.


The Chicago school of economics is a neoclassical school, Liberal, Libertarian... I keep saying neoliberal.

2.1 Frank Knight
2.2 Ronald Coase
2.3 George Stigler
2.4 Milton Friedman
2.5 Robert Fogel
2.6 Gary Becker
2.7 Richard Posner
2.8 Robert E. Lucas
2.9 Eugene Fama
2.10 Friedrich Hayek


The Chicago Boys (c. 1970s) were a group of young Chilean economists, most of whom trained at the University of Chicago under Milton Friedman and Arnold Harberger, or at its affiliate in the economics department at the Catholic University of Chile. The training was the result of a "Chile Project" organised in the 1950s by the US State Department and funded by the Ford Foundation, which aimed at influencing Chilean economic thinking.

Basically even after the Torture, Secret Prisons and Dirty war in South America ... the Ideas of the Chicago School of Economics are still Strong. But so are the Socialist Ideas that brought a middle class to parts of Latin America.

late add:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developmentalism (Very successful in Latin America before the Chicago boys to over, helped industry & workers, and development)

Developmentalism is an economic theory which states that the best way for Third World countries to develop is through fostering a strong and varied internal market and to impose high tariffs on imported goods.

Developmentalism is a cross-disciplinary school of thought[1] that gave way to an ideology of development as the key strategy towards economic prosperity.

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

Re. Neo-Liberal Economics and its laissez-faire, 'pseudo-free-market' ideology, thanx for your excellent comment and links re. 'The Chicago School' ; Milton Friedman et al. Further, are you also aware, 'Ma' - of Chicago University's contribution to 'Neo-Con Hegemonic thought' and have you possibly also come across the name 'Leo Strauss' ? I'll leave it at that for now and more optimistically and enthusiastically suggest these links to you as a shot in the arm re. OWS :

verb. sat. sap. ...

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

I went out on a trip looking at Leo Strauss. I think I saw his name last week on Wikipedia like for Paul Wolfowitz. He taught Wolfowitz.

Wolfowitz did graduate work at the University of Chicago in political science, where he took two courses with Leo Strauss.

He completed his PhD dissertation under Albert Wohlstetter.[15]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Wohlstetter He was one of the inspirations for the film Dr. Strangelove.[1]

Big article here. I still have to get to your links.


[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

Re. Leo Strauss, thanx for your interesting comment and links 'Ma'. Perhaps the best intoduction to Strauss for anyone who hasn't heard of him is Adam Curtis', excellent documentary essay series ''Power of Nightmares'', especially the first of the three part series, which is an education in itself :

Thanx for all you do here 'Ma' & Solidarity @ u & yours.

pax ...

[-] 4 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

I'm still catching up on all your last 6 links. Right now I have to restart my computer, but have captured your links.

Morello is the Harvard-educated guitarist who dabbled in politics, then chose rock music to make a difference. He played guitar for the popular band he co-founded — Rage Against the Machine — and then for Audioslave. Rolling Stone chose his album "World Wide Rebel Songs" as one of the best of 2011, and named him one of the 100 greatest guitarists of all time.

A Compelling Man, a man of the people, Tom Morello Thanks Shadz Probably will hit the Power of Nightmares tonight.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

Tom Morello & Bill Moyers have such a wonderfully revealing and inspiring conversation that it has to be wholeheartedly recommended to all readers here @ OWS, so again I append :

Also to follow P1/3 above of 'Power of Nightmares - The Rise of the Politics of Fear', I append links to parts 2&3 - but don't know how long they will last so may recommend downloading and saving them :

Finally from your reply before last, re. inspirations behind 'Dr. Strangelove' - don't forget Edward Teller !!

Solidarity @ u & yrs 'Ma' :-)

pax ...

[-] 4 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

… Just as trees cannot sustain themselves without soil, nor buildings stand without being supported by a foundation, all the goodness in the world cannot manifest without a sense of goodness and well-being within the heart ...

I got through Beyond the Nightmare Recently. Found supporting arguments and new players names. Very great production, direction, and editing.

Possible Inspirations behind 'Dr. Strangelove' Nuclear Scientist Edward Teller, RAND theorist Herman Kahn, rocket scientist Wernher von Braun, Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara, nuclear strategist Albert_Wohlstetter. ...

But what about Henry (Heinz) Kissinger or Zbigniew Brzezinski, William Joseph ("Wild Bill") Donovan, Allen Dulles, Richard Helms, William Colby, George H. W. Bush, William Casey, I wonder?


Many geostrategists are also geographers, specializing in subfields of geography, such as human geography, political geography, economic geography, cultural geography, military geography, and strategic geography. Geostrategy is most closely related to strategic geography.

Especially following World War II, some scholars divide geostrategy into two schools: the uniquely German organic state theory; and, the broader Anglo-American geostrategies.[7][8][9]

Geostrategy encounters a wide variety of criticisms. It has been called a crude form of geographic determinism. It is seen as a gloss used to justify international aggression and expansionism—it is linked to Nazi war plans, and to a perceived U.S. creation of Cold War divisions through its containment strategy. Marxists and critical theorists believe geostrategy is simply a justification for American imperialism.[18]

Most international relations theory that is critical of realism in international relations is likewise critical of geostrategy because of the assumptions it makes about the hierarchy of the international system based on power.[18] Realism is an international relations theory which claims that world politics is driven by competitive self-interest.[1]

3 Notable geostrategists

3.1 Alfred Thayer Mahan
3.2 Halford J. Mackinder
3.3 Friedrich Ratzel
3.4 Rudolf Kjellén
3.5 General Karl Haushofer
3.6 Nicholas J. Spykman
3.7 George F. Kennan
3.8 Henry Kissinger
3.9 Zbigniew Brzezinski

Allen W. Dulles, DCI CIA, 1953–1961 After the armed landing of Cuban exiles in the Bay of Pigs Invasion of Cuba in 1961, President Kennedy discharged and replaced Allen W. Dulles. But Dulles was OSS in WWII being in the CIA from the Beginning.

Richard M. Helms, DCI CIA, 1966–1973, Refused to block investigation of CIA in Watergate, was convicted, but was 1st Career CIA Officer to become DCI CIA. Watergate led to independent commissions such as Rockefeller Commission, Pike Committee, and the Church Committee. Revelations about past CIA activities, such as assassinations and attempted assassinations of foreign leaders, illegal domestic spying on American citizens, drew considerable Congressional oversight that had not been previously exercised.


James R. Schlesinger, DCI CIA,1973 He commissioned reports—known as the "Family Jewels"—on illegal activities by the Agency.

William Colby, DCI CIA, 1973–1976 caused a major rift within the CIA ranks by cooperating with investigations of CIA Activities, with many old-line officers such as former DCI Richard Helms believing that the CIA should have resisted congressional intrusion. South Vietnam fell to Communist forces in April 1975, a particularly difficult blow for Colby, who had dedicated so much of his life and career to the American effort there.

Makes me wonder the effect of the rift in the CIA and if a secret army of contractors or rogue CIA network arose within the CIA & other intelligence agencies as is probably the subject of novels and films

George H. W. Bush, DCI CIA, 1976–1977 Makes you wonder about the effects of heading CIA had on George W. Bush and "W"s future friends like Wolfowitz, Dick Chaney, Don Rumsfeld

Stansfield Turner, DCI CIA, 1977–1981 Testified about CIA Program MKULTRA.

William J. Casey, DCI CIA, 1981–1987 Implemented Ronald Reagan's Policies, was involved in Regime Change Operations in Latin America, Key in supporting Mujahedeen in Pakistan and Afghanistan against USSR, principal architect of the arms-for-hostages deal that became known as the Iran-Contra affair, but ... Casey also oversaw Polish Solidarity movement against the USSR.

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

That is an extensive and intensive look behind the veil there 'Ma' and thank you kindly for that excellent and absorbing comment into matters of real interest into ''The Deep State'' and its machinations. I think that your comment is a very good resource and primer for anyone interested in these matters.It'd seem that Stanley Kubrick's 'Dr.Strangelove' was a very revealing amalgam of some very strange fish indeed !

Thanx for your beautiful opening lines 'Ma'. Solidarity to you and yours and further to your comment & in compliment both to your reply and my forum post here, please also consider at your later convenience :

Re. the last link - the Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter Dana Priest, traces the journey from 9/11 to the Marathon bombings and investigates the secret history of the 12-year battle against "terrorism". I just watched this yesterday and thoroughly recommend it to you - but balance it with a nice long walk and some nature appreciation &/or a piece of music [ie : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqkS5dVMbNc ]

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 3 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

Thanks for the appreciation. I'm about to change gears and have to restart my computer. I seem to remember the Frontline VIdeo from last week, but have been meaning to get back to scan the website as well. Craig Roberts is always good too.

Those links to former CIA Officers and DCIs seems very appropriate at this time with renewed concerns about Watergate type conspiracies and Privacy loss.

Funny how an Entire Press Industry didn't complain about Domestic Spying ala Operation Chaos type surveillance... until they realized the "Police State" cameth for Them. - Funny that...

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

That is such a good point in your final paragraph so in compliment and for the record, I append below :

Shit is getting seriously out of hand 'Ma' & has already hit the fan I'd argue but we struggle on anyway.

qui tacet consentire ...

[-] 3 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

Project RESISTANCE was a domestic espionage operation coordinated under the Domestic Operations Division (DOD) of the CIA. Its purpose was to collect background information on groups around the U.S. that might pose threats to CIA facilities and personnel. From 1967 to 1973, many local police departments, college campus staff members, and other independent informants collaborated with the CIA to keep track of student radical groups that opposed the U.S. government's foreign policies on Vietnam. Project RESISTANCE and its twin program, Project MERRIMAC were both coordinated by the CIA Office of Security. In addition, the twin projects were branch operations that relayed civilian information to their parent program, Operation CHAOS.


Project MERRIMAC was a domestic espionage operation coordinated under the Office of Security of the CIA. It involved information gathering procedures via infiltration and surveillance on Washington-based anti-war groups that might pose potential threats to the CIA. However, the type of data gathered also included general information on the infrastructure of targeted communities. Project MERRIMAC and its twin program, Project RESISTANCE were both coordinated by the CIA Office of Security. The Assassination Archives and Research Center believes that Project MERRIMAC began in February 1967.


COINTELPRO (an acronym for Counter Intelligence Program) was a series of covert, and at times illegal,[1] projects conducted by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) aimed at surveying, infiltrating, discrediting, and disrupting domestic political organizations.

The FBI has used covert operations against domestic political groups since its inception; however, covert operations under the official COINTELPRO label took place between 1956 and 1971.[2] to include discrediting targets, psychological warfare; smearing using forged documents, false reports in the media; harassment; wrongful imprisonment; and illegal violence, including assassination.[3][4][5] "protecting national security, preventing violence, and maintaining order."[6]

  • Covert operation
  • ECHELON, SIGINT collection and analysis network
  • NSA warrantless surveillance controversy
  • Project MERRIMAC,
  • Project MINARET, NSA electronic communications
  • Project RESISTANCE, Operation US that might pose threats to CIA
  • Project SHAMROCK, NSA type of all telegraphic data
  • Project Megiddo, FBI Report in 1999 on potential Terrorist
  • COINTELPRO, FBI Operations & smears of Students
  • FISA Court, oversees surveillance warrants on foreign intelligence agents
  • Operation Mockingbird, CIA Media Influence

Examples of Covert Operations:

Henry Kissinger, Secretary of State in the Nixon and Ford administrations, was closely involved diplomatically with the Southern Cone governments at the time and well aware of the Condor plan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax#U.S._role (Iranian Coup)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions (Examples)

1 Prior to Cold War
1.1 Russia

2 During the Cold War
2.1 Communist states 1944-1989
2.2 Syria 1949
2.3 Iran 1953
2.4 Guatemala 1954 (operation PBSUCCESS)
2.5 Tibet 1955-70s
2.6 Indonesia 1958
2.7 Cuba 1959
2.8 Democratic Republic of the Congo 1960-65
2.9 Iraq 1960-63
2.10 Dominican Republic 1961
2.11 South Vietnam 1963
2.12 Brazil 1964
2.13 Ghana 1966
2.14 Chile 1970-73
2.15 Afghanistan 1979-1989
2.16 Turkey 1980
2.17 Poland 1980-81
2.18 Nicaragua 1981-1990
2.18.1 Destablization through CIA Assets
2.18.2 Arming the Contras

2.19 Cambodia 1980-95
2.20 Angola 1980s
2.21 Philippines 1986

3 Since the end of the Cold War
3.1 Iraq 1992-1996
3.2 Afghanistan 2001
3.3 Iraq 2002-3
3.4 Venezuela 2002
3.5 Palestinian Authority, 2006-present
3.6 Somalia 2006-2007
3.7 Iran 2005-present
3.8 Libya 2011
3.9 Syria 2012


Further information: Monroe Doctrine

Reasons for these conflicts were varied but largely economic in nature. The conflicts were called "Banana Wars", a term that arose from the connections between these interventions and the preservation of American commercial interests in the region.

Most prominently, the United Fruit Company had significant financial stakes in production of bananas, tobacco, sugar cane, and various other products throughout the Caribbean, Central America and Northern South America. The U.S. was also advancing its political interests, maintaining a sphere of influence and controlling the Panama Canal which it had recently built, critically important to global trade and naval power.

Project MKUltra was the code name of a U.S. government covert research operation experimenting in the behavioral engineering of humans (mind control) through the CIA's Scientific Intelligence Division. The program began in the early 1950s, was officially sanctioned in 1953, was reduced in scope in 1964, further curtailed in 1967 and "officially halted" in 1973.[1] The program engaged in many illegal activities;[2][3][4][5] in particular it used unwitting U.S. and Canadian citizens as its test subjects, which led to controversy regarding its legitimacy.[6][7][8][9] MKUltra involved the use of many methodologies to manipulate people's mental states and alter brain functions, including the surreptitious administration of drugs (especially LSD) and other chemicals, hypnosis, sensory deprivation, isolation, verbal and sexual abuse, as well as various forms of torture.[10]

The scope of Project MKUltra was broad, with research undertaken at 80 institutions, including 44 colleges and universities, as well as hospitals, prisons and pharmaceutical companies.[11] The CIA operated through these institutions using front organizations, although sometimes top officials at these institutions were aware of the CIA's involvement.[12]

Project MKUltra was first brought to public attention in 1975 by the Church Committee of the U.S. Congress, and a Gerald Ford commission to investigate CIA activities within the United States. Investigative efforts were hampered by the fact that CIA Director Richard Helms ordered all MKUltra files destroyed in 1973; the Church Committee and Rockefeller Commission investigations relied on the sworn testimony of direct participants and on the relatively small number of documents that survived Helms' destruction order.[13]

In 1977, a Freedom of Information Act request uncovered a cache of 20,000 documents relating to project MKUltra, which led to Senate hearings later that same year.[7] In July 2001 some surviving information regarding MKUltra was officially declassified.

Project MKCHICKWIT. A partner program to MKSEARCH, to "identify new drug developments in Europe and Asia

Operation Midnight Climax was an operation for the CIA as a sub-project of Project MKULTRA, the CIA mind-control research program that began in the 1950s.[1]

In Operation Midnight Climax, the CIA set up several brothels in San Francisco, California to obtain a selection of men who would be too embarrassed to talk about the events.

The project consisted of a web of CIA-run safehouses in San Francisco, Marin, and New York. It was established in order to study the effects of LSD on unconsenting individuals. Prostitutes on the CIA payroll were instructed to lure clients into sexual blackmail,

Other experiments involved drugs such as temazepam (used under code name MKSEARCH), heroin, morphine, MDMA, mescaline, psilocybin, scopolamine, marijuana, alcohol, sodium pentothal, and ergine (in Subproject 22).[39]

A few days before his death, Frank Olson quit his position because of the nature of his biological weapons research. Among Olson's concerns were the development of assassination materials used by the CIA, the CIA's use of biological warfare materials in covert operations, experimentation with biological weapons in populated areas, collaboration with former Nazi scientists under Operation Paperclip, LSD mind-control research, the use of biological weapons (including anthrax) during the Korean War[citation needed], and the use of psychoactive drugs during "terminal" interrogations under a program code-named Project ARTICHOKE.[54]


The project studied hypnosis, forced morphine addiction (and subsequent forced withdrawal), and the use of other chemicals, among other methods, to produce amnesia and other vulnerable states in subjects.

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

Comprehensive and cogent look behind the veil and a great resource. Thanx 'Ma' and consider closely :

pax,amor et lux ...

[-] 4 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

Obama Corrupts Military by passing over Drone Assassination in part from the CIA who doesn't mind Assassination.


Military people probably can find Individuals that don't mind killing like this. But... will some Drone Pilots be too humane and become mentally wounded in some way from killing/assassinating people???

You know many senior leaders in the military like Women in the Military and so there is the chance that young women would become Drone Pilots who kill Civilians overseas.

To date, the New America Foundation estimates that there have been 355 drone strikes in Pakistan and 66 in Yemen. Sen. Lindsey Graham in February estimated that 4,700 people have been killed in America’s drone war, many of which were innocent civilians. The Bureau of Investigative Journalism in February estimated that the number killed in drone strikes in Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia is between 3,072 and 4,756.

[-] 4 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

All Human Rights Violations I guess. Thanks for the new links. Looks disturbing and like War Crimes and Racketeering.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago


Absolutely a MUST SEE - "Shock Doctrine" ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxxOIfrtYYY .

[-] -2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

Naomi Klein's ''No Logo'' : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8859syeumXw to accompaby 'SD'.

pax ...

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Looks 2 B good food for thought - listening now.

Thanks 4 the Share. {:-]) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8859syeumXw

Related information -


[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

''No Logo'' is Klien's book before ''Shock Doctrine'' and the doc. is based on the book & features her extensively. All the ground work is laid out for 'SD' right there. Between the two books (& doc. films) there is a great education and insight into our current Global 99% predicament. Thanx for your rather interesting link. Looking forward with a more optimistic and defiant eye, for later reflection - I'll link to :

respice ; adspice ; prospice ...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

People need to see this - as it seems that this is now the goal in the USA as well as in Europe. Do People understand what is happening in government what austerity measures mean? Forcing issues to force change - change for the worse for the general public/population.


[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

Sen. Elizabeth Warren takes on the financial industry :

Hope springs eternal for The 99% & thanx for your tweets and solidarity. Onwards, upwards & forwards !

dum spiro, spero ...

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago
[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago
[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

''Overturning Citizens United : Is a Constitutional Amendment the Best Path to Limit Dark Money ?'' :

Of all the many issues that face The US 99% 'CU' is right up there and with the Supreme Court decision enabling Corporations and usurping the US Constitution, the judicial sophists effectively gave the green light to a coup d'etat all in plane sight of a sleeping and mind-managed populace. WTFU AMERICA !!!

Thanx for the cross-reference to those important threads & Solidarity @ The US 99%.

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Thanks for the ever apt - additional complimentary - education on the issues.

Positive change will only come through the involvement and actions of the People - An Educated and Aware People.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Tweet - to the world

http://occupywallst.org/forum/report-united-states-engaged-in-the-practice-of-to/#comment-969402 2 understand what is happening in the world what austerity measures R meant to produce in change 2 society.



[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

You don't punish anyone until they are proven guilty in a court of law and then you punish in a humane manner because we are supposed to be civilized, n'est ce pas?


[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

Of course that is possible. Have you proof that there is no one innocent in there? Why have they not been tried?


[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

You are a fear mongering person. Choose love not hate and then you might not feel under attack.

[-] 4 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

Hi, bw.

"I just got a PM from "beautifuIworld" with a capital "I" (as in eye) in place of the lower case L saying "Hi, Sweetheart." He needs to find time for something else in his life."

That boy has seriously lost his mind. In the last few days he's accused Brab B, me, and now shadz of all people of being Trashy in disguise. What comes out of some of these guys' mouths is unreal sometimes. But sometimes entertaining. I guess it all depends on your mood at the time.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

I am just surprised at the people who get banned and the people who are allowed to troll around here.

[-] 5 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

I have to agree. A true supporter like Odin gets banned a number of times, and yet partisan hacks and divisive assholes remain. It sure makes one wonder who decides.

Shadz is really Thrasymaque, heheh. Now I've heard it all. Even Mr. T will probably get a laugh out of that one.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 years ago

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (13497) 24 minutes ago

I just got a PM from "beautifuIworld" with a capital "I" (as in eye) in place of the lower case L saying "Hi, Sweetheart." He needs to find time for something else in his life.

beautifuIworld said 5 minutes ago at May 31, 2013, 7:17 p.m. EST (delete) hi sweetheart ;-)

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

From the very 1st day it has been unbalanced - and has only gotten worse over time.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

Hopefully, the true occupiers will take back Zuccotti Park tom'w. Now, that would be cool. I just saw the news page.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 years ago

OWS Winning in court on the bogus tickets they handed out to protestors might help.

The more they oppress though the more they show their misrule.


[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 years ago

Who's 'blind' ? What ''foolishness'' ? What is this - ''extremely serious problem'' that you have seen ''the scope'' of ? Does it really look to you ''that the prisoners are in charge'' ? Of what ? 'Eating' you mean ? Wtf kind of ''Problem'' are you looking to be a ''Solver'' of, exactly ? Dare you do some proper reading ?

e tenebris, lux ...


[-] 4 points by windyacres (1197) 4 years ago

Why are you warning him in the first place? Can he change bw's mind? Has he been misinformed about the prisoners?

[-] 4 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

Apparently he's off his meds. He accused me of being a sock-puppet a little while ago, which has to be one of the funniest things I've read on here in weeks.


[-] 3 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

"you also are thrshy."

Heheheh, that's so ridiculous I just had to permalink it and save it so I can show it to my friends here.

Thanks for the laughs, PS, it looks to be an interesting night.

[-] 3 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 4 years ago

Fuck it, lets just all be thrassy. Lets not even use names, lets just use numbers. All the same number.

We'll use number, um... Thirteen.

Then the entire forum would be nothing but "Thirteen" commenting on another "Thirteen" post, and so on and so on....

How fuckin cool would THAT be?!!! :)

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

I just got a PM from "beautifuIworld" with a capital "I" (as in eye) in place of the lower case L saying "Hi, Sweetheart." He needs to find time for something else in his life.

beautifuIworld said 5 minutes ago at May 31, 2013, 7:17 p.m. EST (delete) hi sweetheart ;-)

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

"bradb is thrashy."

Not a chance. Completely different writing style, completely different issues discussed. And of all the usernames Trashy has ever used, he's never once posted a location.

But then, you think I'm a sock-puppet so, yeah, you've definitely lost your mind.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

So, Brad B is a well-known terrorist? I think you've lost your mind, PS.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 years ago

Never had one to lose - it just takes direction from it's masters.

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 4 years ago

He's not alone. Shooz doesnt think corporatism exists.


[-] 5 points by windyacres (1197) 4 years ago

I find it incredible that I'm responding to a post where you make those claims about shadzz and bw, two of the most compassionate forum posters. Your message is about a religion that happens to have the most fanatics recently, and nothing more.


[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

We hate no one and that is what bothers you. Loving one group of people does not mean you hate another. Does a parent hate one child if he/she loves the other? Open your heart, ProblemSolver, time is of the essence.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 4 years ago

Let me guess...Likud Party...AIPAC & Bensdad sock puppet, right?

And anyone who disagrees with Israeli or US Mid East foreign policies hates Jews, right?

One more time; You are totally anithetical to what Occupy is about, and you are a disgrace PERIOD


BTW..when is your hate-filled WG meeting at the Atrium again..lol

[-] 2 points by windyacres (1197) 4 years ago

if your claims are true, I'm completely deceived.

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 4 years ago

I think you need your head checked


[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 years ago

''Hate Jews'' ?! WTF are you talking about ?!! Have you got the smallest shred of evidence for such a paranoid, querulous, ridiculous, self-absorbed, tiresome and unwarranted charge 'ProblemCauser' ?!!!

This kind of ass-ertion is specifically designed to malign people and try to intimidate them into silence, isn't it ? You should have known by now that I am not cowed by such crass intimidation. What do you know of me or my kin or who I am or the same for bw ? I (& bw) have been here on the forum for over 18 months and made innumerable comments and forum-posts, so why don't you go try to find any evidence whatsoever for your ridiculous twaddle ? As you will surely be unable to do so, you should withdraw your comment and apologise but because that would require a modicum of grace, honour & integrity of you, I won't hold my breath. However, you should read and meditate upon bw's reply which you quote above.

Furthermore, why don't YOU write a post about 9/!! and we'll all see if it passes muster here ?!

I note that you are ''willing to forgive the FBI or CIA for any errors they may have made in trying to round up the enemies .. complete forgiveness.. even if they had me locked up in gitmo .. I would forgive them''

So good for you if you are so frightened and inclined to give up any semblance of the rule of law or due process but as opposed to that which you think you know or your personal thoughts, emotions & sad prejudices about ''those murderers locked up at Gitmo'' without charges being brought against them - you should familiarise yourself with some of the basic facts, so revisit the embedded links here :

Finally, apparently you're 'warning' me & my 'hothead' lol, about something or other here on this thread :

However being 'warned' by you now seems tantamount to being aggressively meaowed at by a kitten or threatened by a butterfly & I'm so anxious & frightened now that I'm not at all sure how I'll sleep tonight !

Perhaps you should 'warn' yourself and be a 'Solver' of your own 'Problem' !! You have used six monikers in the past PS [ http://occupywallst.org/users/ProblemSolver/ ] but the last time you and I had reason to interact, you wanted to ''close the door and walk away'' from Gitmo and then you started to eulogise The Tanakh before deleting your comments, as poster 'JesseHeffran', 'bw' & I, all tried to talk you down from your exclusivist megalomania [ http://occupywallst.org/forum/if-syria-does-have-chemical-weapons-and-has-used-t/#comment-966898 & scroll up from there to remind yourself of your own now deleted words].

Go get a clue now 'ProblemSolver' and ...

nosce te ipsum !!!

[-] 4 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 4 years ago

Both you and bw embody what not only Occupy is about, but what more people should be about

And we are extremely fortunate to have you both here


But just in case you have a little trouble sleeping for other reasons, may I suggest quaffing down a pint of Yank beer before bed. You'll gain a little weight, but sleep like a baby. Pease select from the following list, and my recommendation is Oregon's Henry Weinhard's Private Reserve



[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

Do you think 9/11 is the only tragedy that has ever befallen a human being? Are you that ignorant of the suffering around the world?

I personally knew someone who died in 9/11. I lived in NYC at that time. You have no clue who I am or what I believe in and you never will because you cannot imagine loving all people and you have no understanding of the need to understand the roots of violence. You and people like you are actually the cause of many of the world's problems. You are no problem solver.

To even utter the accusation you make up there about Shadz should cause you to be banned. How dare you. You really have your nerve, you hate loving, fear mongering excuse for a human being.


[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

What you say up there and down there about Shadz is unforgivable. Stay away from my comments from now on and take your hatred and sickness someplace else.


[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

Oh, come on Trashy. You WERE modestcapitalist and even Tiouaise, weren't you? How about justthefacts? You were her too right?


[-] 2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 4 years ago

I think you need your head checked

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

You are the sick person. Why don't you tell us what you think of Jesus Christ again? Please. Indulge us. And, don't delete this time.

You are the destroyer. Way back when you were "FriendlyObserverA" you were the very first person to bully me in a PM. You are the mean hateful one.


[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

I told you to stay away from my comments, but if you don't you'll notice that I will not allow your record here to be the last. Shadz66 is definitely not Thrasymaque. If anyone is Thrasymaque, 'tis you. You are Canadian as is Trashy, are you not? Maybe both even from Montreal? It never occurred to me before that you are Trashy....until now.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

Union YES!!!

Believe it.


[-] -1 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

Yes, it says that in the article. Very sick.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

Thanx for your revealing link. I had got a bit despondent after making this forum-post and felt somewhat 'tortured' by it's contents myself and couldn't really face it again but time spent on Mayday 'LiveStream' yesterday reassured me of the essential goodness of most people, despite the horrors we know of and the ones we don't. Further to your link on this important matter, I append in compliment and solidarity :

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

Guantanamo highlights how low we can go. But, like you say, there are many good people around. It's just too bad very few of them are in power.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

"Guantánamo Bay - Enough To Make You Gag'' :

This is an editorial by - ''The Economist'' - one of the house journals of The 0.01% Parasite Class !!!

verb. sat. sap. ...

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

THE authorities at Guantánamo Bay say that prisoners have a choice. "They can eat or, if they refuse to, they will have a greased tube stuffed up their noses, down their throats and into their stomachs, through which they will be fed. This can cause gagging and bleeding in a compliant patient, and is a lot nastier when done against his will. It takes up to two hours, during which time an unco-operative prisoner must be restrained to stop him pulling out the tube."

Wow. Is this the country we wave the flag for? It sure isn't mine.

[-] 2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 5 years ago

A POW flag maybe.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago


[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

'Inside America's Gulag'' (Pictures and Video) :

Thanx for your excerpted comment above bw and for all of your ...

fiat lux ; fiat pax ; fiat justitia ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

"If everyone believed in Peace the way they say they do, we'd have Peace. The only thing wrong with Peace, is that you can't make no money from it." Gil Scott-Heron

The pictures speak for themselves. We can still find our way back to civility, we really can.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

Yes, those pictures do speak for themselves here bw but a prisoner also does so too as the "US prison camp's only British inmate describes torture and humiliation ...'' in :

I agree with you that, "We can still find our way back to civility, we really can'' - but it really does require a willingness to face up to the facts and the truth and also an ability & aspiration to accept or at least to engage with - another point of view. Thus, re. my OP, I append herewith :

Finally, with a view to the article : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34828.htm & in order to compliment the link to thedocumentary film of the book ''Shock Doctrine'' to 'Ma' above, I also link to :

''No Logo'' - based on the best-selling book by Canadian journalist and activist Naomi Klein, reveals the many reasons behind the backlash against the increasing economic and cultural reach of multinational companies. Analysing how brands like Nike, The Gap & Tommy Hilfiger et al, became revered symbols worldwide, Klein argues that globalization is a process whereby corporations discovered that profits lay not in making products, (outsourced to low-wage workers in developing countries) - but also in creating the 'branded identities' people adopt in their lifestyles.

Using hundreds of media examples - ''No Logo'', shows how the commercial takeover of public space ; destruction of consumer choice and replacement of 'Real Jobs' with temporary work ; the dynamics of corporate globalization and the impact on everyone, everywhere !!! It draws attention to the democratic resistance that is arising globally to challenge the hegemony of brands & the extremes of Crapitalism.

veritas vos liberabit ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

The truth is, that behind the torture at Guantanomo is, the quest for profit.

So, I totally get how "No Logo" is linked to the hunger strike at Guantanomo. How do we undo the brainwashing of the past century? That is the really big overarching question.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

''How do we undo the brainwashing of the past century ?'' Damn good question bw and I have no answer or option but to say - only through extensive education, amalgamated agitation and organic organisation can we The 99%, overcome our situation. With a view to the first of these & in solidarity, I append here :

fiat lux ...

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

Undoing a culture of "Who cares about anything but myself!" is indeed difficult. The brainwashing and development of a consumer economy here in the U.S. is unmatched. No where else on earth are the rich more lionized or profits and materialism more worshiped. If people could only really look deeply at their own situation they'd see the exploitation and understand the falseness of the hope that they too can be rich. They would understand that in order to have the very rich, the capitalist economic system requires the very poor.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

''No where else on earth are the rich more lionized or profits and materialism more worshiped. If people could only really look deeply at their own situation they'd see the exploitation and understand the falseness of the hope that they too can be rich.'' - because it bares repeating. Thanx bw and in solidarity and compliment :

''Herman Melville’s “Moby-Dick” grasps the dark soul of global capitalism. We are all aboard the doomed ship Pequod, a name connected to an Indian tribe eradicated by genocide, and Ahab is in charge. “All my means are sane,” Ahab says, “my motive and my object mad.” We are sailing on a maniacal voyage of self-destruction, and no one in a position of authority, even if he or she sees what lies ahead, is willing or able to stop it. Those on the Pequod who had a conscience, including Starbuck, did not have the courage to defy Ahab. The ship and its crew were doomed by habit, cowardice and hubris. Melville’s warning must become ours. Rise Up Or Die.''

veritas vos libertabit ...

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

"Corporations write our legislation. They control our systems of information. They manage the political theater of electoral politics and impose our educational curriculum. They have turned the judiciary into one of their wholly owned subsidiaries. They have decimated labor unions and other independent mass organizations, as well as having bought off the Democratic Party, which once defended the rights of workers." From the Hedges article. Well said and thanks, Shadz.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 years ago

''With roughly 75 percent of Americans mired in some kind of debt, much of it medical or educational ... the blame cannot rest on the debtors. When basic necessities like health care and schooling are partially or entirely debt-financed'', from :

Thanx for your very telling excerpt bw & solidarity.

fiat lux ...

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

“We realized that student debt, medical debt, housing debt, credit card debt – these are all necessities of life, and people are stuck...”

"With roughly 75 percent of Americans mired in some kind of debt, much of it medical or educational, Meaney said, the blame cannot rest on the debtors. When basic necessities like health care and schooling are partially or entirely debt-financed, consuming less is not the answer." From the Hiscott article.

This is very true. The system is set up so that people do not earn enough to cover their basic necessities. TPTB want it this way so that they have economic control over people. Economic control makes political and military control all the more easier. A debtor society is composed of people who owe, who don't have control over their own lives.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

How do we undo the brainwashing of the past century? That is the really big overarching question.


A bucket of cold water is out of the question - I suppose.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

It's an enormous problem that I really don't have the answer to.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

We ( all of us ) here & elsewhere on the net and in the streets - are doing what can be done - education.


[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

Two wrongs don't make a right. They never have. They never will. In fact, they perpetuate all that is bad in the world.

I'm not religious at all, and that probably helps to not get caught up in the one group against the other paradigm that many here cling to. But, this pretty much speaks to how I feel:

"But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." Matthew 5:44

“Hatred will not cease by hatred, but by love alone. This is the ancient law.” Buddha


[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

Thanks. Have a good day.

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

"But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also." Matthew 5:39

"If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; if he is thirsty, give him water to drink." Proverbs 25:21

"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you." Matthew 5:44

We may have freedom of religion but there is no doubt that America was founded on Christian principles. Sad how we have lost our way.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

Good grief !!! Just what does it say that, at the time of writing - you've been heavily stinkled for quoting those nice verses here on this thread and that both you and DKAt have been so assiduously stinkled below ?!! It speaks volumes about the nature of some of the conservative & right-wing trolls that haunt this forum ! If it helps any (and I know it does for me), though a little off topic {phew!} - here you go :

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

We have a moral obligation to fight against Wall Street and to stand up for the poor and the exploited.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

''We have a moral obligation to fight against Wall Street and to stand up for the poor and the exploited.'' - yes, wholehearted ditto and :

verb. sat. sap. ...

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

As an example of the ''moral obligation'' of speaking 'truth to power', I'll also append the following here :

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

And, Byron Dorgan's now famous, prescient speech against the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act:


[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

''As we move towards the fifth anniversary of the great financial crisis of 2008, people should be outraged that cutting Social Security is now on the national agenda, while taxing Wall Street is not. After all,if we take at face value the claims made back in 2008 by Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke and former Treasury Secretaries Henry Paulson and Timothy Geithner, Wall Street excesses brought the economy to the brink of collapse. But now the Wall Street behemoths are bigger than ever and President Obama is looking to cut the Social Security benefits of retirees. That'll teach the Wall Street boys to be more responsible in the future !!'' from :

Thanx for the excellent video clip which now seems nostalgic in its honesty, sigh.

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

"While President Obama is willing to make seniors pay a price for the economic crisis, his administration his unwilling to impose any burdens on Wall Street." Sad sigh.

Thanks for the excellent article.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 years ago

Continuing this tangent and referencing that other unspoken 99% millstone in the U$A, I append :

multum in parvo ...

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

Student loan debt is just another way to keep people down. They don't care that it's ruining the economy overall because they don't care about the 99%. They only care that the rich are getting richer.

"...economist Joseph E. Stiglitz described college debt as “a crisis that is about to break out...Like the housing crisis that preceded it, this crisis is intimately connected to America’s soaring inequality, and how, as Americans on the bottom rungs of the ladder strive to climb up, they are inevitably pulled down — some to a point even lower than where they began.”

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 years ago

''The system is set up so that people do not earn enough to cover their basic necessities. TPTB want it this way so that they have economic control over people. Economic control makes political and military control all the more easier. A debtor society is composed of people who owe, who don't have control over their own lives.'' - Emphatic ditto and yes this is so very true bw (from your permalinked comment : http://occupywallst.org/forum/report-united-states-engaged-in-the-practice-of-to/#comment-979412 ) and hence I append :

dum spiro, spero ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

One way to fight back against college costs is for kids to just say no to the expensive schools regardless of how much "financial aid" and "loans" they are given because that money has to come from somewhere and it is often on the backs of the student for many many years.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 years ago

''The rule of money is a powerful opponent of democracy but a mass movement, united to build power in the people, can transform the country in ways that today we can only imagine.'', from the rather invigorating :

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22863) 4 years ago

We will be sorry as more and more of our education system becomes privatized.

"Proponents of for-profit education aim to privatize whatever can turn a profit. That doesn't include the public sector colleges accessible to working class students. So the privatizers would have them teach only in the service of employer-defined vocational goals, or act as gatekeepers to winnow out a selected few students for transfer to the university system."

Creating an education system merely for profit will leave lacking the need for humanity to evolve in a much broader sense. Sad.

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 5 years ago

Until the people take control of their lives and stop pandering to Demcrats and Republicans, and decide to make some real tough decisions, I think we can expect more of the same.

There is no current sign of things changing course.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

In which case : "Fascism Anyone ?'' :

caveat ...

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 5 years ago

That article on fascism, and the points they list, are all excellent. Great article!!

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

I agree with you & SERIOUSLY disagree with whoever the fk it is that 'stinkles' you so instantaneously no matter what you say & no matter what the subject !! So in SOLIDARITY @ U :

Gorra go hook up with my girl now - but ''keep on keepin' on'' OTP for The 99% !!!

nil desperandum ...

[-] 2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 5 years ago

War is the worst case of greed on the planet.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

That is sweetly, succinctly and simply - utterly true !!! Further see :

I can't recommend the G S-H link highly enough. It's simply great !!

fiat pax ...

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Moral obligation is good reasoning - but to be totally honest - it is also a matter of survival - For The Whole World.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

Good point. They're literally killing us. More people now die from suicide in the U.S. than from car accidents:



[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Despair so deep that many would take their own life.

Those will not have to suffer the illnesses/deaths of a polluted world - the cancers and other results of living in a toxic environment.

Though they still are victims - of the processes poisoning the planet.

Yes - it really is that simple -


[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

That tweet pretty much says it all.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Thanks for keeping it in circulation. It is the root of what from our basic perspective looks so damned complex. It really is not complex - just woefully wide spread.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

Thanks for tweeting it. It really hits a deep place.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

I hope it resonates all over the internet.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Whats to say ? The sell-outs do not like any of us and do not like our sharing the truth. I am sure you have noticed that you receive a lot of this BS attention as well. I have noted it as have others.

Thanks for the music and restating/sharing/circulating the message.

Keep-on Keeping-ON. {:-])

Much appreciated:

"Man gets tired, Spirit dont Man surrenders, Spirit wont Man crawls, Spirit flies Spirit lives when man dies

Man seems, Spirit is Man dreams, the beautiful Spirit lives Man is tethered, tied, bound, Spirit is free What Spirit is man can be (repeat)

He with body (?) he waged a fight the body warn (?) and it walks upright and then he struggled with his heart and innocence and peace depart

Then he wrestled with his mind and his proud heart he left behind Now his wars on god begin and on the stroke of midnight God shall win - Oh God shall win (repeat)

Fear is a black tower built by man brick by brick and deed by deed it is the fuel on which our faint hearts feed Love is just a whisper a breath and nothin more but love will win because love is coming from an endless store Yes love is coming from an endless store (x 2) Thats all you need

It aint why (repeat) it just is Right now If you runaway (repeat) I will follow Swing low low low sweet chariot oh coming for to carry me home"

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

Whatever the problem - Love Is The Answer !!! Solidarity @ u, DKAt !! 'Keep On Keeping On' x 2 !


per aspera ad astra ...

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago
[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

''Love is just a whisper a breath and nothing more

''But Love will win ... .. .

''Because Love is coming from an endless store'' ~*~

[ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzLQ8xOa9Q ]

amor vincit omnia ...

[-] 3 points by LeoYo (5909) 5 years ago
[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

That's like a last smoochy song at the disco bro' lol. Here's one back at u :

But it'd take a pretty feisty chick to want to smooch to that, lolol.

pax ...

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago


It does pretty much say it all - hey?

Solidarity @ U shadz

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

''Love is just a whisper a breath and nothin' more

''But Love will win

''Because Love is coming from an endless store''

''Spirit'' : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzLQ8xOa9Q

GR8 Quote from the song. I have also heard it said - you never run out of love, the more you give the more you have to give.

weird the system would not let me respond to the original comment.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

there is no doubt that America was founded on Christian principles. Sad how we have lost our way.

The sad and simple TRUTH.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

It is total hypocrisy.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Yep - it is like those in power are saying - this is not about US - SO - Do Like WE Say and Not As WE Do - and disregard the fact that our actions will send us all to hell despite your ( The People ) trying to live a good life.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

No, DKA, it is not about the US at all, not about her people, and certainly not about their well being at all. Also, not about the well being of the people of the world at large. We are all one human race, after all, are we not? Should we not look out for one another?

No, sadly, it is about money. It is about the control of resources driven by fear which leads to greed and profit seeking. It is about the absolute absence of love.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Agree - it is about the world wide pursuits of GREED. The only love Greed has is for owning/having all that there is to own/have - so - no love - just obscene insane obsession.

The Greedy Insane assholes will use arguments to distract/derail the population.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 5 years ago

CSI. Consumer Syndrome Infatuation.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

CSI. Consumer Syndrome Infatuation.

Sickological attack ( warfare ) on society.

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

Greed is not just bad because it is unfair, it is bad because it causes real harm and suffering to people. Take these people being tortured, for one thing, with no legal rights, all to greedily keep control of natural resources. Take the millions of Americans who are forced to live in debt in order to survive because their wages are so low and prices so high. Take the 300 plus people who died in the Bangladesh factory collapse and the huge explosion in West, TX. These things are all related right straight back to capitalism and the greed and exploitation that feeds it.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

I think it safe to say :


[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

A fantastic summary, DKA.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Tweets very well too:

DKAtoday ‏@DKAtoday



[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

That is a very excellent tweet. Thanks, DKA. If only we could get everyone to understand the evil reach of greed.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

U might like this dose of reality that I tweeted as well: ( well - not like - but appreciate )

DKAtoday ‏@DKAtoday Protected account 4h

http://occupywallst.org/forum/right-wing-medias-own-legal-experts-undermine-camp/#comment-965697 … CONSIDER - what constitutes genocide - or mass murder? Pls Share/Circulate. Expand

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Hey BW,

Thx. Would be nice to drag heads out of the clouds and back here to reality. Well - Some are waking up from the day dream that someday they will be wealthy and without a care/concern in the world. More as things continue downhill to the cesspool.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

True. And, in tune with this forum post, allowing your government to torture others so that you can change the oil in your car every 3,000 miles and heat your house to the point of sweating are other things the American people need to wake up to. Quit dreaming that you'll one day be rich, and quit your materialistic behavior, no matter how brainwashed you are, that supports the capitalism that supports the torture!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (12983) 38 minutes ago

You were -1 for saying that. LOL! There are some real losers out there. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

There are some real losers out there.

It boggles the mind.

Not really.

The corpoRAT sellout Boo-Birds.

I take that back.

CorpoRAT sellouts or not [ There are some real losers out there.] It Does boggle the mind.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Yes - emerge from the brainwashing - wealth and possessions do not equate to having or living a good life of fulfillment.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

You were -1 for saying that. LOL! There are some real losers out there.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago


Someone else apparently agrees [-2] {:-])

So it is worth repeating.


[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

Yeah, this whole thread, where we discuss greed is downvoted. Unbelievable.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33487) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Truly unbelievable.

So it bears repeating: