Forum Post: Phony Inflation Numbers Mask Recession
Posted 11 years ago on Feb. 9, 2013, 11 a.m. EST by john32
(-272)
from Pittsburgh, PA
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A publication of newsmax, one of the few media outlets to the right of FLAKESnews.
Bravo.
You win the booby prize, no boobs involved.
You're blind faith to your left wing is hurting the 99% shooz....try exploring other areas....it's about the content-explore it a little. They aren't bashing your number 1 guy obama...it's about the monetary system.
I have no need to "explore" wrong wing media.
Been there, done that, it's shit.
You're the one that needs to expand your thinking beyond the libe(R)tarian lie machine.
You want to show me where I said Obama is my #1 guy?
Go ahead and bash him, just don't lie and quote wrong wing lying ass press about him.
Newsmax......what a fucking joke.
Why do you even talk to me if you haven't even read the post? Seriously....just don't click on any of my posts. Love how you never counter my content though....it's always partisan BS with you.
What's incorrect about the information contained in the post? "Information"...you know-that foreign word to you that your comments usually lack. The word that requires facts to back up what you're talking about:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/information?s=t
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/facts?s=t
Screw you and newsmax and FLAKESnews and theblaze and whatever else lying crap you can find.
I've said it before, I'll say one last time for your benefit.
The number one cause of inflation is WallStreet, and the number one lie about inflation is written by WallStreet.....
Everything else is bullshit.
Murdoch donated more to Obama than any other person.
Hmmmm...
Seems like we may be part of one big game. Like an ant farm.
Citizens United.
You don't really know that, nor do know that they didn't do it that way for the purpose of propaganda.
You also don't state how much they spent on in house propaganda against the candidate you mention.
This is just another way FLAKESnews lies.
You really should step outside of your tiny little box.
Here ya go:
http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/recips.php?cycle=2012&id=D000000227
The truth sucks, but is is something we all must accept if we are going to move forward.
Except that's NOT the full truth.
That's what Citizens United hath wrought.
Where's the answer to my direct question?
Where's the report on the unreported dark money and where it came from and channels it got here through?
You're still stuck in your tiny little box.
Echoing what the "right" wants you to, while the tyranny of the States continues..
I dont have an answer to your question.
Do you?
Your Democrats are in bed with Murdoch. That is hysterical. ARe you too? haha.
So, since you can't answer the question, why pretend you know?
You're Ron Paul posse partner bought into the lie too, so why pass it off as the whole truth, when you both know it isn't?
What was the FLAKESnews operating budget last year?
Even that's not the whole story, as news corp in general spends lots more than what's spent on FLAKEnews alone.
Then there's all the dark money and the channels it uses.
You should get out of marketing. It's not your thing.
Would you personally accept money from Murdoch for something? Anything?
Thats the point. Its not about the percentage accepted. Its about the accepting. Period.
ITs not about the overall marketing plans. Its about the individual people accepting money. Taking the money. Saying, Thanks for the money.
To ignore that is to provide cover for the deeper problem.
Citizens United demands it.
Besides, I'm not running for anything, but if Murdock wants to give me some cash, I'll take it.
The deeper problem?
People that believe Alex Jones and the John Birch Society.
That would be you, a HATER of the 99%.
I could care less about Rand. Just another author. Its you and the others on the opposite side who take these figures and put them on such a pedasal of worship or attack.
Seems to a lot of us that the nation is getting played by a bigger force.
" I'm not running for anything, but if Murdock wants to give me some cash, I'll take it." Ofcrouse, when you wouldnt mind joining the club, kind of hard to fight it.
"Seems to a lot of us that the nation is getting played by a bigger force."
I've been trying to tell you, but you keep yelling.
Hey..look over there!! Obama!!
Wait! Look over there!! the FED!
Just like they do at the John Birch society.
It's the Neolibe(R)tarians, silly.
They do it Worldwide, far outside of your little tiny box of thinking.
[-] 1 points by shooz (16133) 0 minutes ago Citizens United demands it. Besides, I'm not running for anything, but if Murdock wants to give me some cash, I'll take it. The deeper problem? People that believe Alex Jones and the John Birch Society. That would be you, a HATER of the 99%.
Holy Shit. You realize you are just as sold out as the rest of em? Cititzens united doesnt demand a thing.
Wow.
" I'm not running for anything, but if Murdock wants to give me some cash, I'll take it."
A self described Occupier saying he/she would do the same thing if given the chance.
This mountain just got a lot harder to climb.
You can take your blinders off now.
How is calling the 99% asses not hating them?
You show all the compassion of Ayn Rand.
You know that "philosophy" you recently said doesn't matter because she's dead?
It's you who sold out.
Trying to pretend you didn't say the things you said.
Ouch
Can you imagine being the fly on the wall in the room of these big media executive's meetings? They must be laughing their asses off at us.
I follow this stuff pretty closely and I hadn't even seen that.....that's crazy.
Very disturbing indeed.
Can you explain that to me...how is wallstreet causing inflation?
It's the nature of their business.
Here's a few.
Every time their return is much higher than your savings account.
Every time they insist on sending labor overseas to improve their "investor" return.
Every product they insist be built with an MTF.
Every politician they buy.
All of those things they do and many more create REAL inflation.
Shooz...inflation isn't caused by someone being rich....or labor being sent overseas....or buying politicians.
There's two ways to increase inflation on the economy wide scale. I'm not making this up...this is directly from the inflation equation. (on a goods scale demand push and cost pull inflation also occur)
1.) the velocity of money
2.) the amount of money in circulation.
the velocity of money has been decreasing over the past decade...so that isn't the culprit. So we're left with one area - the supply of money...which has been increasing like crazy for the last couple of decades. Who's responsible for the supply of money? The Fed/government...with government giving the Fed control over the supply in circulation.
I wish you would dig into this stuff because I think if you did at the end of it you'd be like "holy shit...they're really screwing us with this system and 99% of people dont' even know it".
If something costs you more?
Is that not inflation?
I don't care too much for WallStreet's definition.
You pass it around like it's God's truth.
It isn't.
You act like WallStreet bought the FED just to confuse you.
I love your obsession with keeping everyone and everything in neatly contained boxes to argue semantics with, instead of just declaring to hell with em all.
Constantly decaring political parties evil while ignoring the rest, and not really offering too much in teh realm of deeper understanding and new ideas is not the point of forums like these.
They should be hotboxes of innovation and ideas, of rallying points.
Why do you do that all the time?
I like how you avoid the things WallStreet does.
You make excuses for them.
Nice to know john is one of your puppets too.
You didn't answer the question either. You went back on the attack.
How long before you resort to name calling again?
It's what you do.
Avoid the things they do? Theres countless posts on here from myself on it.
I guess when your time is spent trying to create the Libe(R)tarian brand you can get a little bit of tunnel vision :(
Perhaps if you spent less time pissing and arguiing with people all day, and learned how to have a decent damn conversation, you would be a bit more happy with yourself.
Yeah, you do.
You deny a lot of the things you say and do around here.
Perhaps if you accepted reality you would MUCH happier with yourself and stop HATING the 99%.
Indeed, you might even apologize for calling them asses and apologize to everyone here you've played your name calling game with.
There is no having an intelligent conversation with a conspiracy theorist.
" I'm not running for anything, but if Murdock wants to give me some cash, I'll take it."
Please announce that at the next GA. Assuming you know where it is.
I think that line pretty much sums up the problem with America in a nutshell. Almost perfectly.
Thank you for finally making a decent contribution to help new visitors understand just why this task is so hard, and is going to take so long.
I can't help it.
My furnace died and WallStreet insists I pay a bundle for new one.
If they were giving them away I guess I wouldn't need the money.
HEAT! A reality lost on a guy in Florida.
meanwhile, you still insist that WallStreet is innocent on the inflation front.
It's all like Ron Paul says "right"?
It's the FED, but lets pretend that WallStreet didn't buy it for nefarious purposes of their own.
You really do think inside a tiny little box.
Even your insults are getting lamer by the day.
You've even mentioned throwing folks out of your GA....if you didn't like what they said.
God, what a hypocrite.
Doesn't this show that those spreading fear that QE2 would create inflation were wrong?
http://www.minyanville.com/businessmarkets/articles/qe2-quantitative-easing-inflation-quantity-theory/11/1/2010/id/30877?page=full
I mean QE2 DIDN'T increase inflation!!!!
Now the same gold shills are spewing fear that QE3 will create inflation and the apocalypse is coming.
But this article lays out logical data that was proved out with reality no?
"to hell with 'em all"? To hell with 'em all!!! Now what? Whatta waste.
Why bother criticizing his style? The issues that affect the working/middle class are what matter.
His comments are obviously in support of working/middle class Americans. So I guess you are against that?
" I'm not running for anything, but if Murdock wants to give me some cash, I'll take it."
Oh my god politicians taking money!!!??? Who ever heard of that? What a scandal!! I always knew Obama was an agent of the far right, tea party, FOX news, Murdockians!. The vicious attacks against Obama by that wing hasn't fooled me.
Well done. Ok? Issue over. Next!!
The right and left all in bed with the money and the media.
I guess thats fine with you too.
That makes two so called occupiers who are fine with taking money from FOX today. Lets see if we can make it three. Go switch handles and repeat.
Don't be a goddamn simpleton.! It goes without saying our political system is bought off and corrupt.
Isn't that why we support a new system? You are clearly just going after democrats. Regardless, it should surprise no one that politicians take money.
That is why we are for movetoamend.org. and overturning CU. Are you?
What actions are you proposing.? Seems you are focused only on attacking some democrats (and bullying users on the forum). It's boring, tedious, childish. transparent.
Please. You're tired, and played out.
" I'm not running for anything, but if Murdock wants to give me some cash, I'll take it."
Apparently not all of us are for it.
If you and your other handles dont know the positions by now, then you need to refocus and listen.
Would inclusionman accept money from Murdoch like your little friend?
Make sense. Stick to the issues.
We are ALL against politicians taking money!
That's why we support movetoamend.org and overturning CU.
Do you?. (take a break from the partisan attacks, and the bullying of the forum and state a position on an issue that affects the working/middle class)
Does this explain things in a way that allows you to understand better why our focus should be on helping the 99% with job creation (insourcing), tax reform, rather than the long term goal of worrying about inflation, & ending the fed?
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1218551-how-inflation-could-happen-in-the-u-s?source=yahoo
I would say this is a typical Keynsian who hasn't taken ten minutes to dig into the consequences of printing money....much like Paul Krugman.
He doesn't even understand what inflation is when it is talked about by those he's arguing against....that alone points to the fact he hasn't done a snippet of research.
Job creation and the economy will not happen unless the monetary and inflationary policies are tackled...that's the whole point VQ....why else would i talk about this stuff?
But besides all of this...stop talking to me...and stop reading my posts....i'm done talking to you and then having you jump on with your 20 different screen names and down vote my comments. And i'm tired of sitting around reading you talk to yourself on different screen names. You have problems.
If you want to understand this stuff great....then we can talk and you can read a few books to get a different view and then we can have a real discussion...until then i don't see any point talking to you...so don't bother talking to me.
"job creation....will not happen"?
There has been millions of jobs created and would have been more if the congressional republicans hadn't obstructed almost every proposal to strengthen the recovery.
",,,the economy will not happen"
Not sure what you mean by that, I assume you mean the recovery will not happen.
The economy is recovering from the Bush 'great recession' but anemically because of the traitorous congressional republican obstruction.
I support monetary reform, even 'ending the fed'. The whole 100 year system is just bankers overseeing/colluding with bankers. And the current free money scheme (QE#) is obscene.
It must end. But I don't think we must stop all other action.
This article states that the inflation number is inaccurate because they have "changed what is in the basket". I suppose this is necessary to estabish because the reported rate is low historically.
There is no backup/evidence ofthis change in theway inflation is calculated though.
Why do you believe it? I don't.
I think anyone on a fixed income who lives month to month is fully aware of their increased costs and that their paychecks aren't keeping up with these increases. Seriously...grab your grocery bill from a year ago and check the prices for yourself of common goods and compute your own CPI.
Economist who calculates CPI as it was done in 1980 explains the changes...they've changed the basket of goods numerous times and added arbitrary geometric weighting as well..if you calculate it as it was done in 1980...inflation is at 9%:
http://www.shadowstats.com/article/consumer_price_index
Peter Schiff has done a decent overview of some of the changes as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwI3Nya5L9g
The government has trillions linked to the CPI....it is absolutely in their best interest to understate inflation.
Another way to look at it that really sheds light on how they're destroying the dollar is to look at t currency that can't be manipulated....and see if prices have risen in that currency. Take gold for example (because you can't inflate gold...it's a stable currency). If you price oil and gas in gold...you can buy just as much gas with just as much gold as you could 100 years ago (same amount of oz's of gold will buy you the same amount of oil/energy). What about the dollar? Helllll no....all you need to do is look at a graph of the cost of oil in dollars and you can see how it is directly tied to money printing:
http://hmscoop.com/MoneySupplyvsCommodities.html
Or David Ranson...another economist who has done a ton of research in this area suggests true inflation to be around 8% in recent years...he released a study a year or two ago explaining the reasoning and the flawed CPI numbers:
http://gata.org/node/4605
As you point out the items in the inflation calculation "basket" is frequently changed. Which kinda supports the idea that the rate is being handled/mishandled as it always has.
I think we ought to focus on jobs. Infrastructure, housing, greentech jobs, You mentioned low income people. So let's focus on pressuring our corrupt government to pass living wage w/ colas. Let's reward insourcing, punish outsourcing.
Let's focus on creating a real progressive tax system that finally get's the wealthy to pay their fair share. So much can be done ifwe can pool our efforts.
I might agree the inflation rate is fudged/inaccurate, but so what? Who would be surprised that the govt fudges numbers or is corrupt? Seems like a waste of time. Obvious. A given.
What are you suggesting we do? The people your article sited seem interested in economic apocalypse, buying gold or Reits that they probably benefit from.
Not to mention they appear a bit partisan/slanted right.
I think the gist of your response is asking why should we care, even if the numbers are fudged? (paraphrasing)
I think there are really good reasons to care. Inflation hurts the average joe more than it does the banks and the wealthy...it's stealing from the poor and giving to the rich. A great 3 minute video explaining this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx16a72j__8&feature=player_embedded
If you think about it it makes sense too....say we have real inflation at 8-9% a year....how much are the average persons paychecks going up every year? Not by 8-9%....so you take the difference of how much your paycheck is going up every year (lets say 3%) and subtract inflation at 8% and at the end of the year your 5% poorer than you were the year before. If you watched the video that 5% actually goes to the wealthy and the people who inject the newly created money first. But this process explains why it used to be possible for a family of 7 to have one full time average paying job that could sustain the whole family....while in todays standard of living that's nearly impossible.
Another reason is that inflation is negatively correlated with jobs....you were saying we need to focus on jobs. The problem is monetary policy has everything to do with jobs. Scroll halfway down this page to table 1 and you can see how jobs are negatively correlated with inflation:
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc1/Inflation.html
Besides my other suggestions we can also pressure a better distribution of profits so that workers get better pay. (execs who make 400x more than average workers is obscene)
There are real actions we can push to improve the lives of low income victims of inflation.
Are you suggesting we should focus our attention/efforts on getting the govt to provide honest inflation numbers.?
Are you saying we should prepare for a massive crash by buying gold and REITS?
What are you suggesting we do specifically to improve the lives of the low income victims of inflation?
"Are you saying we should prepare for a massive crash by buying gold and REITS?"
Not at all...I'd never tell someone how to invest or where they should put their money. An interesting point though is that without an increase in the money supply people wouldn't have to invest in markets where they get totally screwed by trading professionals. Without inflation your money would increase in value if you kept it in your basement at your house. You wouldn't have to worry about entering the speculative markets where they pump and dump stocks and screw people.
"What are you suggesting we do specifically to improve the lives of the low income victims of inflation?"
I think we need to bring attention to this insidious and hard to understand process and put a check on how much/fast the government can inflate. I think if more people understood this process things would change pretty fast.
"Besides my other suggestions we can also pressure a better distribution of profits so that workers get better pay. (execs who make 400x more than average workers is obscene)"
I agree there are lots of other areas we can dig into as well. One other point i could make in regards to the inflation....is that if there was a check on inflation - bankers wouldn't have gotten bailed out during the crash - and the ridiculous ones who got bailed out and then gave themselves millions in bonuses would have gone under.
bankers were bailed out because they threatened (extorted/mugged America) further credit freezing economic chaos/crash.
Are you suggesting we should focus our efforts on eliminating inflation? How can we do that? Inflation has been around forever
"if..people understood this process things would change pretty fast."
What process? What are you trying to get us to understand.? I don't understand yet. And once understood what actions are you expecting we will do to "change things pretty fast"? people understood this process things would change pretty fast.
"Are you suggesting we should focus our efforts on eliminating inflation? How can we do that? Inflation has been around forever"
Yeah, i think that would be a great start - to start focusing efforts on stopping inflation. Inflation hasn't been around forever...there was a good 100 years where purchasing power actually increased...where your money become more valuable...instead of less. Inflation really started when the Fed was enacted by the government.
"What process? What are you trying to get us to understand.?"
Inflation is responsible for the boom/bust cycle...or the business cycle. All business cycles are expanded with artificial credit...and they come crashing down a few years later...screwing everyone and creating massive unemployment and further redistributing wealth. Inflation is the focal point to this whole process...for if we couldn't inflate...we couldn't manipulate interest rates which distorts the economy...we couldn't buy out businesses like we did during the crash...we couldnt fund the unlimited wars we wage around the globe...we couldn't screw the average worker out of his paycheck through inflating prices....jobs would be easier to come by...everything is tied to this problem. The problem is it's relatively hard to understand....and it takes a little bit of time to sit down and go through it to understand the process.
inflation is the result of corrupt banksters (incl the fed)
So how would we go about ending inflation?
What are you proposing?
There are a number of ways
legalize gold and silver (currencies that can't be inflated) so when the dollar is devalued people will flock out of it.
or put a yearly cap on the maximum allowable growth in the money supply (1-2%). I don't trust this suggestion as much because history shows that if you give the people who have control over the money supply an easy way to inflate (printing dollars)....even if it's illegal they still do it. It's a start though.
Last i would get rid of fractional reserves in checking accounts. Fractional reserves increase the money supply (inflation) and can cause massive inflations and deflations in an economy leading to huge swings in the booms and bust periods of the business cycle.
Great website that covers this stuff in laymens terms and helps to understand why increasing the money supply (or inflation) is such a problem:
www.hmscoop.com
Is this Spam? I checked your website.
It appears to pretty much push gold/silver. I think that is a big mistake.
The people sited on the website are illustrative.
Peter Schiff. Gold & Silver Broker. He is a 1% bankster. Obviously the last person the 99% should get advice from.
Peter Berholz More pushing Gold sales. Seems kinda conservative/austrian econ.
Murray Rothbard Libertarian gold monger. Supported Buchanon, and Strom Thurmond for Pres. Are you kidding? He is an Austrian Economist. That's the last approach we need. It would be most devastating to the 99%.
I am a Keynsian, The Keynsian approach would help the 99%. The approach you are pushing wuold crash the economy and bolster gold/silver prices.
Your whole post appears to be nothing more than an effort to push Gold/Silver sales.
Is this Spam?
Please understand what it is you are saying:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Maynard_Keynes
obama wanted to keep health insurance companies
so those people would remain employed
even if their function is unnecessary
Most of the functions of the economy/society are unnecessary and the ones that are would be far more efficient and equitable without being solved by power accumulation systems like politics or capitalism. Capitalism cannot build long-lasting infrastructure efficiently (high-speed rail is a scientific solution, while cars are a capitalist solution), and most of the other functions it provides are fluff (advertising, marketing, banking, insurance, security, defense).
the problem lies in everyone needing money to live
Thanks so much. I do understand the difference between Keynsian and Austrian economics.
Why would you assume otherwise.?
Do you have an opinion on the issue of the thread/comments? Or are you just the roving "verifier of knowledge"?
Peter Schiff predicted the housing crisis and wrote a book about it a couple of years before it happened. If the 99% had been listening to him they wouldn't have been hit like they were through the disaster....actually if people had been listening there wouldn't have been a collapse. Forget about his politics....i could care less about that...but his assessments on monetary policy and the economy have been spot on. That's what i don't understand - the guys that got us into the mess are the guys everyone still tries to listen to...while the guys that were screaming about a housing bubble and a massive impending collapse are marginalized or sidelined....i personally like to understand why people are right - instead of learning from the ones who were completely wrong (krugman)
Peter Bernholz does not sell gold....he's a professor that has studied hyperinflations and what causes them...nowhere in his book does he suggest purchasing gold.
It's not push gold/silver.....i could care less if people bought gold or silver. The only reason a commodity such as gold or silver is ever brought up as a means of money because it is the only safe store of value in the world. Nothing is as perfect as gold and silver for money....because it can't be inflated...that's the whole point of it....not because it's shiny and pretty to look at....it's because its supply is limited and it cannot be created by any man made means...which means the insidious inflation process is stopped and it saves you from all the stuff i was talking about above.
Other forms of money could work as well....i'm not saying we have to use gold..as long as it's a currency that isn't reproducible, or that has incredibly strict limitations on its creation.
What book did schiff write that predicted the housing crises? You conveniently left that out.? Ealiest book I found was Nov 2008. A little late.
Schiffs economic/political theories benefit the oligarchs not the 99%. That matters, why don't you care.?
You claim you don't care about buying gold but your 1st proposal would benefit anyone who buys gold.
"legalize gold and silver (currencies that can't be inflated) so when the dollar is devalued people will flock out of it."
That seems like you care.
And since as you say it is limited commodity wouldn't that then therefore obviously hurt the poorest among us.
I don't want that. Do you.?
Sorry I'm a keynsian. Not an Austrian gold salesman.
Good luck.
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Nice Post.