Forum Post: OWS constant self hatred of America dooms it to fringe status
Posted 11 years ago on July 5, 2012, 5:41 p.m. EST by delayedgrat
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This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Based on the endless drumbeat of blaming America, you can now declare OWS on life support, near death. Most Americans love America and OWS now represents the 1% who hate America.
There is no affirmation at all of how amazing America has been in its history. This self flagellation of America and its unprecedented accomplishments never seen in human will never gain traction with the common man will never resonate with the vast majority of people who love their country.
OWS had a chance and blew it by allowing fringe anarchists to seize control of its direction. I was at a big city 4th celebration and OWS had a handful of hard core anarchists trying to disrupt the celebration. They were lucky not to beaten alive.
OWS is near dead, heart in feathering un productive fluttering, its light dimmed to less than a candlepower. When Bill Maher laughs at the guitar army, is over.
Nope, OWS did not. No one represents OWS. Remember? We make things happen where I come from. We don't follow NYC.
"no affirmation at all of how amazing America has been in its history."
I have lived in the glory days of America. The greatest and wealthiest middle class in the history of the world. That was before Reagan. Union membership was at an all time high.
One man could get a factory job and support a family with full health care and retirement. We did not have day care. We had Mommy Care. We built the Interstate highway system and put a man on the moon. We did not export raw materials. We added value through American labor and exported products overseas.
But the marginal tax rate was over 90%. And it was not a coincidence.
90% sounds about right for any income over a million bucks. Stop rewarding outsourcing instead punish it. That'll learn 'em.
It ,makes them invest the extra money in deductible business expenses rather than Wall Street.
But it never did. That obscene marginal rate was part of a swiss cheese tax code rife with deductions and legal avoidance schemes. I know 90% is the thing of leftist wet dreams, but try to stay a little tethered to reality.
I lived in those times. They put money back into the business. They gave raises to keep their best people. They upgraded equipment. They sent their people to school to increase their value.
And they had coffee in the morning with the common people. They lived in our neighborhoods not behind guarded gates.
And it crated the greatest middle class in the history of the world. Then Reagan came along. http://www.ctj.org/pdf/regcg.pdf
They didn't pay 90% marginal rates.
No, they didn't. The avoided it. The sports and movie guys got hammered, though. They did not have business write offs.
But the extra money did not end up in the banksters hands.
Yes, they avoided it because that's how the system was set up. Confiscatory rates on paper, but with sufficient holes so that no one paid 90%.
So, you were pining away for rates that never existed.
Let me break it down for you. When you own a business almost everything you buy is a business deduction that lowers what you get taxed on.
You can buy a red corvette and write it off as a business expense. You did buy it for the business, right. The business holds the title.
You might need a new sailboat for sales meetings and to impress clients.
Throw a big company Christmas party. These are the "holes".
But this money goes back into the economy. Whereas if you take it as salary and you already have all your toys, then you gamble on Wall Street with it. Not back into the economy. No jobs created. Get it?
90% tax rates existed on paper only. So, you'll have to come up with another wet dream about the good ole days.
Investment is spending back into the economy. Get it? So, having a positive savings rate is bad because rather than spend it, you gamble it? Huh? Savings is capital available for investment. Investment helps underpin jobs.
Living on the edge pay check to pay check creates a vulnerable economy with weak households that blow over in a light breeze. Savings is a good thing, not a bad thing.
That should be a good result.
They were good times. See above.
we need that again desperately. Owners need to value workers, And pay them more. Owners need to feel a responsibility to their communities (living in the same helps) instead of putting profit before people and community.
Do you know anything about world history? The U.S. is a blip in the record of humanity. Get off your high horse, take off your rose-colored glasses and start trying to make things better. Occupiers love their country that is why they want to make it better for all citizens not just the greedy wealthy and corporations.
"It’s Not Our Job To Take Power, It’s Our Job To Fight Power !" :
Chris Hedges speaking at Occupy National Gathering in Philadelphia,
by Chris Hedges & pertinent to your comment and this BS forum-post.
per aspera ad astra ...
Great inspirational video!
From Hedges re: OWS: "This is the dress rehearsal for the end of the corporate state." Love that.
Thanks, :-)
All OWSers need to see this I think 'bw' ! Keep on keeping on !! per ardua ad astra !!!
meanwhile... our government who has witheld our countryland from us in a big bureau of land management, and charges us for every little thing we try to do with our land. they are even in business themselves with borrowing 30 million dollars from gambling casinos to build a skyrise embassy suites hotel in my city of west valley city, utah. Why the hell is government in a private investment business now, when they should be serving us, we the people? Did they have to pay a business license to enter the hotel business? I see them driving around in newer model work trucks with exempt license plates. Gee I wish we the people had that kind of start up help with our businesses!
Private citizens should be building and owning that hotel, but I see our homes looking more and more run down, our trucks are older models from over taxation, they tax us to drive a car, and they tax the oil companies 117 million a day and then tax us another 49 cents a gallon, meanwhile the government thinks we are too stupid to realize that we are paying taxes twice on the same gallon of gas, while oil companies continue to make record profits. Can you see what Im talking about? Becuase I believe it is hidden from most people.
I see governments building palaces for themselves on our backs, with indoor high ceilings as much as 3-4 stories high (that could have been a tax break for us citizens) Hell id rather see our government run from cheap white trailers instead of palaces. Our government utility trucks not only formed their own fix it themselves fleet in every level of service you can think of, they are driving around in expensive nice newer model work trucks with all the nice compartments. Maybe Ill paste a comparison of my old work truck Ive been slaving away for the past decade and ended up in bankruptcy and of the nice government vehicles with work trucks and compartments I only dream about.
As long as our government is in the business of being a consumer on the backs of the people they pretend to serve, this "hatred" you speak of will not just go away.
this "hatred" you speak of will not just go back to the pretense of all is well. I predict there is enough greedy americans to drive our country to complete destruction, as foretold in scripture.
"Our country is the world, our countrymen are all mankind. We love the land of our nativity, only as we love all other lands. The interests, rights, and liberties of American citizens are no more dear to us than are those of the whole human race. Hence we can allow no appeal to patriotism, to revenge any national insult or injury."~William Lloyd Garrison, Declaration of Sentiments, Boston Peace Conference, 1838
Sorry dude, but you are the one that is hating on America (at least the people of America, maybe you think you love the "idea" of America). Nobody is your enemy, we are part of the same tribe.
The United States has never truly made history. History in what? Freedom to vote existed before the United States ever existed. Sure, the United States has done some great things, but it's done plenty of terrible things that it must be held accountable for.
It's far more than 1% of the American citizenry that holds grievance against their country. Which people are you talking to?
So you say the United States has never truly made history - lets compare the United States to the rest of the world.
Which country would you rather live where you can prosper?
Which country would you rather live where you have the freedom to go where ever you want without being subjected to a malita questioning where you are going?
Which country would you rather live in wher you can buy whatever you want?
Seems to me if not others the United States has made history - you just don't recognize it.
I would rather have lived in the America before the United States, before Western influence. Those societies were a lot freer. They respected women a lot more too.
By "The United States did not make history," I mean that all the things like voting rights, civil rights, and whatever existed in other societies prior to that.
Besides, I could probably prosper better in Denmark or Finland right now. But since I love the land America (and not the nation The United States), I would rather stay here and fight to make sure it does not become a doomed land.
Thanks for confirming perfectly my main point. Do you think the vast majority of Americans think like you? Do you think the average citizen thinks America is so awful its has to be held accountable?
Go to a simple baseball game. Everyone sings the National Anthem. Your opinion is truly on the outer reaches of fringe idiocy.
I don't sing the National Anthem. I know a lot of people that don't. That and the pledge of allegiance are all just worthless pravda-style conscription machines ( and just truly boring and sentimental songs). I am not a nationalist, I am a humanist.
I don't think the majority of Americans think the way I do. But since when does majority opinion mean truth? If you think majority does mean truth, then the majority of the world probably thinks America is a terrorist nations. By your logic, we are all terrorists in America. Do you understand my point?
Empires wax and wane. Someday the United States will too. It's just a part of history. Since I am a Christian, I can't hold my allegiances with the United States. It is just a nation, nothing more. It would be against my religion to hold my country above God.
"The United States has never truly made history. "
ever see Cape Fear, the remake? Max Cady in the movie theater...
WAAAAAAA---HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
AAAAAAHHH--HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!
WAAAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
that is all your ridiculous self-hating ass deserves. the expectation of perfection is so laughable. time to grow up, kid.
No, I have not seen Cape Fear. I don't like Martin Scorsese as a director. He is overrated. Mean Streets was his best film.
[Removed]
Another dumb post. Not only do you have ludicrous ideas about America, you dont even know cinema. "Taxi Driver" is a freakin masterpiece. The wet streets, the trash, the taxi cutting thru the steam from the bowels of NYC are beyond art.
It plays about once a month on my cable. There isnt even 10 secs of wasted film. Watch it again. Its an incredibly visceral movie.
You probably aren't even familiar with the basic artists of cinema like Yasujiro Ozu and John Cassavetes. If you REALLY want to know New York City, watch Shadows. If you really want to watch a gangster film, watch the Killing of a Chinese Bookie or Elaine May's Mikey and Nicky.
Scorsese is pop art, like Spielberg or Lucas. He's got nothing on Paul Morrissey, Jon Jost, or Tarkovsky.
I have seen every serious film since Griffiths "Birth of a Nation." Every single one. Caasavetes is OK.
You don't even know who Cassavetes is.
Yes i do. married ti gena rowlands. buddies with ben gazzara and peter falk
Quick wiki searches don't mean squat. Go watch Husbands.
You are truly an idiot. I have taken several film classes at USC. I took a film class from george lucas.
I bet you dont know jack about cinema.
This is 1,000 times better than anything Lucas ever made:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKW1xA5H-v8
Lucas doesn't know art from his elbow.
Scorsese rules.
Scorsese for President!
Why do the mods put up with this crap
You are talking through you alleged hat.
You know your Post is silly and childish. I've lived in four states in this nation and loved every moment of my time in this nation, but that don't mean I'll turn a blind eye to some cheap suites fucking it all up. My mother loved me when I was a child but that did not mean she turned a blind eye to me disrespecting others and acting the fool.
You love your nation like battered spouses love their abusers. There is nothing fabulous about your love; in fact you type of love creates bad children and a dysfunctional nation.
Show a little back bone and exercise a little tough love for once. Part of love is to hold those you love accountable for their behavior.
The problem here isn't that OWS hates America or that things are different now than they were. It is a problem of perception. Clearly some people perceive OWS as a group of America haters. Why is that, and what can be done to change it?
Sorry, but many people here are vicious in their hatred of America. And a guitar army? Thats just stupid.