Forum Post: One Interpretation of OWS : Goals not Demands
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 24, 2011, 11:05 p.m. EST by occupycommunity
(119)
from Rockville, MD
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
The occupation movement is difficult to define. Because it is a decentralized movement, no single person or group can decide what it is, and every participant will have their own interpretation. Looking at the movement from afar, it might appear that the participants do not have a clear set of demands or policy recommendations, but from talking to the participants, it becomes clear this is not about demands, it is about being heard. The goal of this movement is not pass new laws, or to amend the constitution. Instead the goal is to lead our society through a radical paradigm shift. The first step in dealing with a problem is realizing that it’s there. All around us we see victims of an economics system with its values in all the wrong places, and we want to make a statement against that system. We want to start a dialogue about new ways to deal with our problems. Many in the media have mocked us for not having a coherent list of demands, but they miss the point. We don’t have any demands, only goals. We recognize that we live in a democratic society and that not all of our goals will be achieved at one time, but we’re sick and tired of sitting on the sidelines hoping for politicians to come up with solutions. It is time to voice our priorities. For more information visit http://www.occupycommunity.org
Are you freaking kidding me? Do you really believe having goals without any method of achieving them is going to work? I'm not sure where all the OWS'ers are coming from but in the real world.... that doesn't work! Clearly defined goals and a method of achieving those goals are a must! So continue to stand there and reverberate what has been said 1000 times on here and continue to watch the elite laugh at you. I honestly was a supporter of the movement but when I see crap like this, it tells me the elite have already won. Continue sitting there talking about "radical paradigm shifts" and watch what happens when you apply no means of achieving the goals. I apogolize but I get so mad when I see nonsense posts like this.
the nonsense is people promoting demands. a paradigm shift is actually the only way anything is going to happen.
you don't have clarity and can not speak to what makes sense strategically.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
Gawdoftruth, I have seen your posts and I fundamentally do not agree with a single word you are saying. Saying that I have no clarity only proves this fact. No matter what you say, goals are not achievable without a method to achieve them. I think my clarity is quite clear!
Not a single 'elite' is going to give a crap about your 'paradigm shift'.
the method to achieve them is what i have promoted since day one. Demands do not equal a method to achieve anything.
i do not require the elites to care about a paradigm shift. i do understand the fundamental problem of our one percent trying to communicate to 98 percent.
that can only happen via a paradigm shift. if 51 percent of the population knew what i know the revolution would be over by morning.
you not agreeing with me proves either ignorance or duplicity. which is it?
i have real solutions on the table. i have the real method by which to create meaningful change on the table. you have only noise.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
Well, I have a hard time saying I'm deceitful when I have spoke nothing but truth so I must be just totally ignorant of what I see going on in America. Stupid me. That being said, in case you have noticed, the elites are currently running the show. Your paradigm shift is supposed to change the thinking of a minority to a majority through sheer word of mouth. No need to organize, no need for demands or goals, it will just happen.
You say that if 51% of the population knew what you knew a revolution would already be over. So what insider information do you have? If you believe a paradigm shift is going to happen, why are you not educating the masses instead of rehashing information that people already know? You're not providing solution, you're pointing out a problem. A problem which everyone already knows. Yet I'm part of the 51% right? The ignorant 51%? I'm glad you're so much more knowlegeable but just so you know when you start throwing out your percentages, you are alienating the 99% into chunks. Good luck on your paradigm shift. I think I will just stick with www.occupycommunity.org because it seems like a legitimate message. It also hasn't questioned my intelligence. But then again, I'm ignorant.
actually, in fact, i am answering the need to organize, with the wiki. actually, goals are great and we should make them. Demands are infantile, and theres no point in that.
i don't have insider information i have science information.
i am doing my best to educate the masses.
i am most certainly providing solutions, its clear you aren't actually clicking links.
occupy community .org is yet again another blog style message control hierarchy site, not a collaboration engine.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
Link 1 - Nothing but a confusing interface. When you click the links, there are more links. Great content! Link 2 - Problems... no solutions (just like I said) Link 3 - Problems... no solutions (again, just like I said) Link 4 - Problems... no solutions (yet again, just like I said) Link 5 - Your explanation of "paradigm shift". So the public needs to change their way of thinking.
Once again, you have proven my ignorance. Your best is not good enough. My suggestion is that you look at www.occupycommunity.org and provide input on what seems to be real. Petitions are being signed and things are getting accomplished. It's the only site I can say that about right now.
as one person, i can't generate that content. however, once people wake up, and as they do, they wil lrealize that a blog style information controlled situation does not serve to organize things.
Apparently you missed the link to threads in this forum, which does outline solutions.
and apparently you miss how and why a wiki is itself a core solution.
You have way to much faith in people. They are not going to do the things you believe they will do. I'm honestly not trying to mislead you but people are generally lazy. If you don't provide the solution, nothing will be done. People don't want to create the solution. Why not follow a great site which I had my eyes opened to tonight by occupycommunity.
i have provided the solution(s). People will come sooner or later as the pain grows.
obviously, your pushing your site. obviously, i'm pushing mine. i'm not going to waste my time . We need real organization and that site not only does not provide it , it is patently incapable of doing so.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
Let me tell you, it is not my sight. The user, "occupycommunity" showed it to me and you can see that if you read the rest of the posts in this thread.
right, i did not mean "your" in that way. glad you like it. still isn't going to accomplish organization, still does not have the solutions. I will continue piling in real solutions , and sooner or later people will join me.
I'm sorry you feel that way. Please bear in mind that this is only one interpretation, there are many people who feel as you do. This is just one idea placed on a forum. If you feel differently, make a convincing argument to sway opinion to your point of view. Also, our organization www.occupycommunity.org has already gotten issues public attention on the whitehouse we the people forum. It may not be revolutionary, but it's a start. Check out our goals which are currently posted on our frontpage : www.occupycommunity.org
Ya know, I read your link and while I don't agree with all the goals, I would say it is an actual start. My next suggestion is the same thing I have said elsewhere. Develop a growth model and get a real following. Get police involved, firefighters, military and others involved. When the numbers hit the millions try to go even larger, how could anyone deny? Let people's voice be heard, show up knock on their doors if needed. I honestly think the entire nation knows the system is broken. All they need is something to grasp ahold of. Give it to them!
Thank you for the positive feed back. The point of what we're trying to accomplish is that individuals can choose which goals they want to support, and ignore the goals you don't agree with. Again, this is just one suggestion in a vast sea ideas. If you have any issues to propose, we will be happy to hear them, and possibly even post them on our front page.
It's great that you want to let people choose but keep in mind at some point, you have to settle on a solid list. I have 2 issues that are both addressed but in my opinion could have a bit more added. The first is bringing troops home. The USA has strategically placed itself in way more than just the Middle East. Korea, Germany and Japan come to mind. Bring everyone home and cut defense spending in half. Second, I think Universal Healthcare should be added to. 90% of the reason for high cost is that of frivolous lawsuits. Insurance and actual procedure rates have gone through the roof because of lawsuits. On a side note, lawyers in general should be addressed because the system no longer has the clients best interests in mind. Worth researching but not necessarily an add to the list.
Absolutely focusing on goals first makes sense. Only when goals are agreed to can you begin to define a means to achieve them.
personally, I'm not much of a corporations-are-evil person, I'm a direct democracy person, so I'm more interested in goals that achieve something meaningful in that space. I believe cutting out he middle man in our representative democracy wherever possible is a meaningful goal.
Get out of the box. Change our mindset. Quality of life and living is the only goal. And it can be accomplished with little or no resources.
How do you propose this can be accomplished? I would encourage you to elaborate.
Stop buying their wares and their bullshit. Find comfort in your own space, it does not take a mink coat or luxury car. Keep your head, be rational, but demand your basic rights. Be willing to walk away and return tomorrow.
or... Focus on a real solution...
Are We the 99%Voters ready to take the REAL next step?....Here is the more proactive solution as the necessary next step at-- http://www.getmoneyout.com --& tell a friend--tell everyone...because this ones gonna be the hardest next step to take.
Election Reform Now-- One person ,one vote ,$100 limit to voters only! Reform Elections first...& the rest will follow...put an end to "government of the corporation, by the corporation, for the corporation."
& Read Jeffery Sachs--the "Price of Civilization: Renewing America's Values". or listen to--- http://www.commonwealthclub.org/events/archive/podcast/dr-jeffrey-sachs-101011 ---
Vote for any one who supports these ideas.
I agree with you in spirit, but how would you reconcile this request with first amendment rights?
No demands no goals – next step is ACTION !
The capital of DEMOCRACY is the vote – your vote !
This is not a wish list of OWS demands or goals It is a list of issues, that any of us can ACT upon.
Although long term restructuring of American government and economic policy is clearly in order, our immediate step is to act- exercise our democratic rights by contacting our congress people and senators to tell them how we, individually – not as OWS, feel about the following - or any other issues –
Public option & universal health care – medicare for all.
Corporations & rich must pay their fair share.
Corporations are not people & Money is not speech.
Stop oil company subsidies.
Eliminate recent restraints on collective bargaining.
Eliminate recent changes to restrict voting.
Restore banking regulations and regulators – regulate greed.
Break up the non-competitive, too big to fail banks.
Capital gains must be taxed as income.
Stop privatization of government.
Tax exported jobs.
----------- please see following post ----------------------
Tax extra for ultra-fast stock trades ( <1 day )
Limit all campaign contributions to $100.
End the wars.
Cut the military.
Create an FDR type WPA & CCC & a TVA for wind farms.
Hire & train returning vets.
Arrest and try the war criminals.
Stop using the Patriot Act to spy on Americans.
Arrest and try the bank/investment criminals.
Eliminate the filibuster.
Endorse Elizabeth Warren.
Find an anti-Norquist pledge Republican to endorse
================================================
Select your issues ( or mine ) & FIND YOUR REPRESENTATIVE & SENATORs CONTACT: https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml http://www.house.gov/ http://www.senate.gov/
Then, “grass roots” your issues : get at least 4 of your friends to also email their congressman & get them to “grass roots” this through repeated generations–till Washington is covered in grass!
You can use www.whitepages.com/person to look up people & addresses & zip codes. Important Note: they will only pay attention to zip codes in their
<House> congressional district Or
<Senate> state
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
DEMOCRACY IS FOR SALE ONLY IF YOUR
INACTION ALLOWS IT !
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
YOUR MESSAGE IS:
VOTE THE WAY I WANT
ON MY ISSUES
OR
I WONT VOTE FOR YOU
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
Three organizations – AMONG MANY- NRA and AARP and Tparty have been enormously successful and powerful – by using their votes-
WE MUST TOO !
We have also posted many of these issues on petitions at whitehouse.gov. Links are available at www.occupycommunity.org
for me the key is pressuring your congressman - directly threatening not to vote for him
That is probably one of the places where you have the most influence.
Wow, are you part of the 99% or just the 30% or so registered Democrats. All I see here is Dem talking points. Way to win over the public there.
If you suggest a goal and build support for it in the forums, it will be moved to the front page.
why do some posters INSIST on labeling others?
These are MY "talking points" - what I believe.
By the way - when did the Democratic Party vote to end the Filibuster?
can tell me why waterboarders were imprisoned in 1983, but not in 2002?
can tell me why we need more atomic bombs and fewer cops?
can you tell me why a worker pays a higher tax rate than an investor?
I look forward to reading your reasoned rational response.