Forum Post: Okay folks! Can we now talk about why the Muslim world hates us so much?
Posted 11 years ago on Sept. 14, 2012, 11:01 p.m. EST by Orwellwuzright
(-84)
from Lockeford, CA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Our unwavering support for Israel. There, I said it.
Not so fast please. Also further consider that The USA was held in high regard throughout the muslim world for most of The 20th Century. It was seen as a new nation which had overthrown its colonial overlords and liberated itself to be into a democratic, progressive country where faith and hard work could uplift citizens. US science, engineering, culture and education was respected and its stance on 'Godless Communism' was hugely respected and admired.
However despite this mass perception & sentiment, The US Gov't. consistently sided with the most vile, reactionary and autocratic elements of the monarchies, sheikhdoms, emirates and dictatorships. All the while, all progressive, liberal and leftist forces in the societies were violently repressed for decades. Arch US allies, The Al-Saud Gangster Monarchy have promulgated a strident, hard right, illiberal Islam as The Al-Saud clan cult (Wahabism) has been pushed as a faux 'Islamic Orthodoxy'.
The people see the alliance of their elites and The US. They know their oppression. They chaff against the rulers. They see the nexus and then react to symbolic provocations. Murderous violence & mayhem are to be condemned and there is never any justification for murder but alas the events have their root in history and actual socio-economic and political realities.
There is a push for conflict on all sides but good people resist everywhere. An important & relevant link :
"Inside the Bizarre Cabal of Secretive Donors, Demagogic Bloggers, Pseudo-Scholars, European Neo-Fascists, Violent Israeli Settlers, and Republican Presidential Hopefuls Behind the Crusade".
This is a powerful piece by the consistently incisive Max Blumenthal but it is only for the clear sighted, open hearted and strong minded.
caveat ...
Our decades of supporting brutal leaders in their countries.
I don't believe the muslims hate the US
Just the crusaders of America.
I guess crusades can happen anywhere
Crusades are financed by taxes, there is no accounting except by the people going to jail for stealing when they have been taxed too far.
That too
If that is a primary reason,
why did not the "new" South American democracies attack us ?
we largely not present in South America
there were many wars in central america
"wars in central america" ???
wars AGAINST the USA ?
or civil wars for control
much the same
[Removed]
Yes. That is part of it too.
The People of the middle east don't hate us ( the people of the western world ) as such - they hate our mega monster corpoRATions and our government that supports their activities. They see the interest that our government has over there - OIL - not people - OIL - and so they see very clearly the money and manpower and weapons dedicated to the securing of - OIL.
So it is not the People that they hate - it is the government/corpoRATion combination from the western world that they hate.
muslims hate anyone that isnt muslim.its what they're taught. its in the koran. islam is a political system.
I have Atheist, Agnostic, Christian, Jew and Muslim in my family by ties of blood and marriage ... and you - are a hate filled liar or a malign idiot or both.
Like the empty vessel that you are tho' you will still no doubt continue to ring hollow and make a lot of noise with your subjective opinion 'brain-farts' being expressed as some kind of 'objective reasoning'.
Like some others here, you are very willing and able to imbibe the whole 'Clash of Civilisations' narrative that has long been in the planning and is now in the implementation stage. Finally, I dare you to read :
verb. sat. sap. ...
i am a realist, the duty of every muslim is to follow the koran. the koran is the guide for all aspects of life. ever heard of taqiyaa or kitman?
never heard of taqiyaa or kitman.
well than, enlighten yourself and do search , try taqiyaa first.
This is specious canard, tendentious extrapolation and extremist propaganda - actually on a par with trying to tar all people from a Judaic heritage by twisting The 'Kol Nidre' Prayer !
It's wrong and you should stop and that website you are pushing is a disgrace !!
Your 'video' is of a War Propagandist ; End Time Schematic - Psy-Op Agent in 'The Clash of Civilisation' Propaganda War and so - I am hereby calling out your nasty ass for what it is !!!
anguis in herba ...
what are you talking about? what video? what propaganda?
False. Are you around a lot of Muslims? What you see on the news are uneducated tools being used by their power hungry "leaders". Judging all Muslims by that is like judging all white people by The Turner Diaries or the Aryan Nations
Or you could judge (NOT ALL) by the 911 murderers
Good point.
go to dearborn wearing a star of david and see how you're treated. a muslim that no longer wants to be muslim is called an apostate and subject to death.
I live on an a relatively small island surrounded by millions of people of all different religions and nationalities. We're doing just fine. Dont believe the hype.
burn a flag in Texas
There are extremists for every religion, ideology, and even extremists for political parties. Saying the Muslims hate us is like them saying the Christians hate them. In the background, there is some hack making bank from the hatred they sew. Your blanket statement shows how easy it is to buy into it.
What you say is definitely true. But at the same time, if some random person in Libya made a little movie mocking Jesus Christ do you think there would be riots at embassies in Washington DC? I would bet that most Americans, Christian or not, probably would not give a flying fuck.
There are thousands of anti-muslim videos on youtube alone. What made this one so special? Consider the mysteries surrounding it's development.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/origins-of-controversial-anti-muslim-video-remain-a-mystery/2012/09/13/5ac25184-fddb-11e1-8adc-499661afe377_story.html
As I said, it doesn't just take hold. Someone must sew the seeds of hate for it to grow.
Have you ever heard a Muslim radical Imam talking to his followers in England - in English ?
Listen to THEIR OWN VOICE
undercover at the uk mosque, return in 5 parts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc7PqjD_S3s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whRaYuDRC_0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBSvExX_Nhc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXz0B_j9eHI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdpCOaJuBx4
don't blame me if you can't sleep after watching
The British empire has long used Islamic radicals in a divide and conquer strategy. This is how it first colonized India, by getting Hindus and Muslims to fight each other.
This is why England gives refugee to Islamic radicals from around the world. Whenever it wants to stir up trouble somewhere, it has its own homegrown crop of these people now that it can send to do its dirty work.
This is why England gives refugee to Islamic radicals from around the world. Whenever it wants to stir up trouble somewhere, it has its own homegrown crop of these people now that it can send to do its dirty work.
................................................................INSANE CONSPIRACY CRAP!
Yes, it is insane, but they'll keep doing it as long as people are unwilling to confront the harsh reality.
give us three documented examples of when England did
send to do its dirty work.
Do you think that when the US intelligence services do an assessment of covert actions being taken against the US that they only consider documented examples? Or do you think they make their assessment based on every tiny piece of information that they can find, including rumors and trusted sources, and consider all of that information together?
I think they do the latter, and that's the way I do things myself.
Here's a little of what one of my sources says on the matter:
Xinjiang Riots: British Destabilization of Asia
July 7 (EIRNS)—Lyndon LaRouche said today that the evidence is clear that the riots in Urumqi in western China's Xinjiang province are entirely a British operation, made possible by the role of the British agent in the White House, Barack Obama. The targets, as LaRouche has emphasized, are Iran, India, Russia, and China. British- and Saudi-trained terrorists are moving out of Pakistan into Central Asia, and into China's Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region, providing the Anglo/Saudi apparatus with a further destabilization capacity across the entire "Arc of Crisis." This arc, identified as a British operation against Eurasia in LaRouche's "Storm Over Asia" TV broadcast in 1999, is now exploding, from British destabilization and threats against Iran; to terrorist attacks in the Caucasus; to renewed terror bombing in Iraq accompanying the U.S. troop withdrawal from the cities; to the bloody escalation in Afghanistan and Central Asia; to terrorism in the Islamic regions of the Philippines and Thailand; and now, the Xinjiang riots.
Videos from Urumqi show that the Uighur demonstrations, initially protesting a racial conflict in Guangdong province in which two Uighur workers were killed two weeks ago, turned into a riot, much like the Tibet riots of last year, in which Han Chinese residents of Urumqi were pulled out of cars and shops and beaten. Over 200 shops were damaged and 200 cars, including police cars, burned or otherwise damaged. Over 150 deaths are reported, with most reports indicating that about 30 were Uighurs, although this is unconfirmed.
From May 21-25, the Uighur separatist movement, the World Uighur Congress (WUC), held a conference in Washington—in the U.S. Capitol building!—titled "East Turkistan, 60 Years Under Communist Chinese Rule." (East Turkistan is the name for a separate nation intended to replace China's Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region). The conference was sponsored by a nest of British intelligence operations in Washington—the quasi-governmental National Endowment for Democracy, British MI6's Amnesty International, George Soros's Human Rights Watch, and the Unrepresented Peoples and Nations Organization (UNPO—an imperial organization set up in 1989 in The Hague to support indigenous people and separatist movements against nation-states).
The conference opened with the U.S. National Anthem and that of East Turkistan (a non-existent nation), and was addressed by members of the U.S. Congress, in addition to representatives of the sponsoring organizations. Only six weeks later, Xinjiang exploded in violence.
Rediya Kadeer, the president of the WUC, was accused by the Chinese government of instigating the riots in Urumqi, over the Internet, and through phone calls into the region. Interviewed by al-Jazeera today TVB, Kadeer admitted that she had called for the Uighurs to "go to the streets to demonstrate against Chinese oppression." But she blamed the violence on the Chinese, despite the films shown by al-Jazeera proving the opposite.
Chinese police are now reporting that they are dispersing groups of Han Chinese who were arming themselves with sticks and knives. They say that demonstrations in Kashgar (also, in Xinjiang), were dispersed without violence. Near the Tajik and Pakistan borders, Kashgar is the more dangerous location, as Pakistan-based insurgents travel back and forth through that area. China reported last month that seven "terror cells" had been uncovered and shut down in Kashgar over the past four months.
larouche!!!!!!!!!
Conspiracy theorists are hilarious! Keep it coming! You're a real investigator!
"At least" you have a sense of humor.
Keep thinking that. You just keep buying into what you sneer at.
I worked for and am now good friends with a Pakistani who owns a corner store 4 blocks from my house. We talk politics, local, federal, and global. Almost every time we see each other. For 5 years I've known him. His wife is from Uzbekistan. All of their family stayed behind and did not move here. They visit their home countries once a year. I am well aware of the Muslim disposition. Israel is an issue, but the hatred you claim Muslims have for the US and Israel, just doesn't rise to that level. Any more propaganda you wish to share?
anecdotal evidence & private stories offer little PROOF
watch the five part video I posted above and listen to THEM
Moslems speaking in English
OR
ask any Coptic Christian in Egypt
Lies.
Israel was created in the first place, by the financial oligarchy, for the purpose of stoking the hatred between Muslims and the western world.
Is that what binladen told you ?
I thought he said it was because US troops were in Saudi Arabia -
AND they were invited to be there.
FYI - have you read the Koran ? I've read many translations of different parts.
It is the same hatred & fear that caused the Salem witch burning & Spanish Jew burning & 11,000,000 Arab/Muslim deaths in the last 65 years
Framing them for 9/11 didn't help either.
How about more like bombing people out of their homes, bulldozing their houses, and causing all kinds of other violent malice.
Oh yea that is what Israel is doing too. May be if the U.S.A. and Israel stopped doing all those nasty things, Arabs would not be so pissed off at either entity.
I'd rather cut funding to Israel, and Big Fossil subsidies and protection, than Big Bird and Elmo!
In the shock and confusion just after 9-11, one network or another aired an archival B&W clip of a bright young Senator who just returned from a fact-finding tour of the Middle East in the late '50s who prophetically warned of the escalating unrest among the people directed at their tyrannical leaders and the US for supporting them. It was Senator John F. Kennedy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Special_Committee_on_Palestine
The Crusades were created by a pope who sent thousands of Christians with swords to kill Muslims
Today, we have hundreds of Imams who have been sending thousands of Muslims with bombs to kill anyone who does not agree with them
Including 11,000,000 Arabs in the last 65 years.
They don't hate Israel or America - they hate everyone who is not them - everyone
Israel is not the problem. It is Islam and Sharia Law. American founding principles that would be targets for Islam are life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, free speech, free press, freedom of religion, innocence until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, due process, prohibitions against cruel and unusual punishments, etc.
Islam demands the highest levels of conformity, restrictions, policed morality, sexism, racism, religious persecutions.
America offers liberty, freedom, free speech, without religious restrictions.
According to Christian teachings Islam is a false religion and Mohammed is a false prophet. Islam is antichristian at its core. Political correctness is not an option.
Arch US allies (since the 1920s) Saudi Arabia, is the root behind the strident, illiberal, right wing Islam being pushed by a minority across the Muslim world. Muslims and The US Empire were getting along just dandy allied against "Godless Communism". Most Muslims chaff against their despotic leaders & aspire to those noble values that are also actually under ever increasing threat in The USA right now.
From one reading, "According to Christian teachings" - Hindus & Buddhists are Satanic Idolaters. So should we declare open season on them too ? Muslims believe in Jesus as a prophet ; believe he was born to The Virgin Mary ; that he was ascended to heaven & that he'll return before 'the end of times'. If you don't believe me & can contemplate it, ask a Muslim !
Why is it that you know so little about them d'you think ?!!
Have you drunk the 'Clash of Civilisations' Kool-Aid Too ?!!!
Finally, an article by an veteran journalist :
multum in parvo ...
The relationship between Saudi Arabia and the West can be tied to oil production guarantees, and little to do with the window dressing of tolerance, political correctness and piety.
Christianity is older than Islam by at least 600 years. Arabia was a Roman province. Since Christianity was the official religion of the Roman Empire as commanded by Emperor Constantine. Christians accept the Divinity of Jesus Christ, Son of God, a being within the Holy Trinity. Christ is not a mere prophet.
Arabia should have been under the jurisdiction of Constantinople. To know that relationship between Jesus Christ, Virgin Mary is not the same as being a Christian.
Islam insists that Christ is a prophet, but not Divine. Islam is technically a heresy from the start. There have been theological arguments about this preceding Islam. These were pushed to the side by mainstream Christian thought, categorized as heresies and and these believers were excommunicated.
Islam starts with a heresy and builds a culture of blasphemy, violence, hatred, and repression that controls the minds of nearly 2 billion people.
Arianism and other heresies http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01707c.htm
If Muslims know anything about the Christian Bible did they omit a few passages?
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Follow the path of Islamic warlords at Northern Africa, Cordoba, Poitiers, Constantinople, Vienna, Persia, Mongolia, India, etc.
Muslim Conquests http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests
Judaism is a cult with many sects ; Christianity is a cult with many sects ; Islam is a cult with many sects !!! Anybody else tired of all this internecine BS dick swinging contest betwixt Abrahamic Mumbo-Jumo Subscribers ?!! Consider closely - 'spiritual supremacy' is but a silent breath away from 'racial supremacy' & is a systems glitch of the brain and manifestation of ... something not good !
I could deconstruct your comment on so many levels & your level of blinkered self-regard and 'religious absolutism' is breathtaking :-(
I leave it to Matt to tell you :-)
http://occupywallst.org/forum/no-war/#comment-171994 ==
"the world population is slowly gaining world perception" ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoL2WMtMb_0 <3 & mS2u ~*~
dum spiro, spero ...
Christianity is not a cult. The Church is what bound Western culture through the Dark Ages. Christianity withstood Muslim invasions for centuries. The secularization of the West by 500 years of colonialism will not lift the civilization with promises of capitalism.
Capitalism is a cult. Banking is a cult. The political parties are cults. Compare the Democratic Party today with the Democratic Party of FDR.
Federal Judge issues permanent injunction against NDAA http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PZjXHjkzMD4#t=40s
Who Repealed Glass Steagall http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0k2PmF-o5Q
How did you become a 'Spiritual Supremacist' ?!
D'you think that 'accident of birth' gives you special insight into deep, transcendent, spiritual 'truths' ?!!
Is that even conscionable let alone reasonable ?!!!
gnothi seauton ...
An organization that has persisted for two thousand years is unprecedented. Everything else, political theories, economic theories, science, language are temporary fixtures, artifacts in comparison.
Christianity offers hope.
Well at least you do accept that Xianity is an "organisation" !!! Is it a monolithic 'organisation' ?!! Or does it have many 'sects' ?! I wonder IF you know about how what constitutes 'The Bible' and 'Xian doctrine' was established by committee at - inter alia, The Councils of Nicea, Alexandria, Antioch, Carthage, Whitby and many others over a long period of time ?
The man we now call 'Jesus' was a 'Torah' believing, practising Jewish person who would have been rather appalled if anyone thought that he was - in and of himself, totally consubstantive with 'G*d' and that equation was only made long after he had 'passed away'. I could go on and on but do not wish to undermine your "hope".
at spes non fracta ...
Believers would argue that Jesus was more than that.
John 20:27-31 King James Version (KJV)
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John 8:12 King James Version (KJV)
12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
Religious Dogma is really impervious to any kind of rational debate, so please consider that eventually - our 'karma' will always run over our 'dogma' when we breath our wordly last - if not before !!! Then it will be 'lights out forever' or 'the transformation of energy' to a new form, as per either basic laws of physics &/or 'metaphysics' !! The major problem with Paternalistic Abrahamic Monotheism is its extremely self-referential, faux dogmatic certainties and its insistence on 'I am right ERGO you are wrong' !
Further please consider, that 'spiritual supremacism' is but a very tiny step from faux notions of 'racial exclusivism', and finally open your heart to reflect upon :
ad iudicium ...
It's not the Christians we need to worry about. The assassination of our Ambassador and escorts by radical Muslim terrorists in recent weeks marks an important distinction between the different paternalistic Abrahamic monotheist religions.
Christians have become something else. Abraham is hardly mentioned. Their connection to God is not through Abraham, but Jesus Christ. On the other hand Islam is antichristian and a heresy.
Islam and Arianism intersect to deny that in any true sense God could have a Son; as Mohammed tersely said afterwards, "God neither begets, nor is He begotten" (Koran, 112). We have learned to call that denial Unitarianism. It was the ultimate scope of Arian opposition to what Christians had always believed.
Can this Unitarian claim be proven? It flies in the face of an omnipotent God, who can do whatever he wants.
The Holy Trinity: God being the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost is a mystery, and another distinction for Christianity.
The Arian Heresies
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01707c.htm [right click]
Thank G*d for Atheists !!!
Your deep hope that something really "marks an important distinction between the different paternalistic Abrahamic monotheist religions." and your inclination to rancid spiritual supremacism, only "marks" you out as a doctrinaire bigot !!
"Unitarianism" exists to this day & 'Arianism' was only declared heresy by The Catholic Church at the first Council of Nicea in 325. Your selective pick and choose 'pseudo-spiritual' dogmatism is really rather alarming. So again : Judaism is a cult with many sects ; Christianity is a cult with many sects ; Islam is a cult with many sects !!! Anyone else tired of all this Abrahamic Mumbo-Jumo ?!! Consider - 'spiritual supremacy' is but a silent breath away from 'racial supremacy' and please try not to ignore that fact that Jesus was NOT a Christian !
Re."Can this Unitarian claim be proven? It flies in the face of an omnipotent God, who can do whatever he wants.The Holy Trinity: God being the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost is a mystery, and another distinction for Christianity" lol.
veritas vos liberabit ...
Don’t take this personally. This has been going on for over 2000 years. Are you a spokesperson for Atheism? How can Atheism provide answers to anything? What do Atheists believe in? Is all they are about is denying the existence of God and that’s it?
God is defined
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JgpARGvBnc&list=PLf5qT0tQoem1_jbtFkUMrmYzt-VyCM_Ni&feature=plpp_play_all
Are Atheists supposed to respond differently than Christians to Taliban and al-Qaeda related assassinations?
Taliban Shoots Teen School Activist
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/10/world/asia/teen-school-activist-malala-yousafzai-survives-hit-by-pakistani-taliban.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper
Nope I'm not any kind of spokesman for atheism tho' let's face it, the arguments are strong. I'm given to metaphysical speculation as per - "man doesn't live by bread alone" and all that but I am not dogmatic about it & I'm unable to believe that any one particular spiritual/religious tradition has any unique 'truth'. Consider, religious dogma is by definition sectarian whereas matters pertaining to 'spirit' are universal.
Re. your sectarian selective outrage at the shooting of that child, this isn't about one girl much as you may like it to be, as everything has context whether you like it or not. The dark spiral into violence is wholly aided and abetted by previous US, UK, Saudi et al support for all 'anti-communist', right-wing, reactionary, anti-progressive forces as well as the current 'scientific uber-violence' and in this context, even 'western education' is being seen as the enemy by some of the most extreme elements. This is utterly wrong and reactionary of course - so let us not encourage the same here with more sectarian, simplistic, propagandist, religio-dogmatic - crazy and lazy 'thinking'.
'Fear' is the absence of Love & leads to 'anger' which begets anger, which leads to 'hate' which begets more hate - all leading to 'suffering' - which is avoidable IF we open our minds to universal 'heart-centred' thinking. Please do have the last word here & thanx for the chat, it's been an education, for me at least !
pax, amor et lux ...
Returning to the topic, why Muslims hate us, Americans traditionally acknowledge there is a Creator, but it is not the deity described by the Koran. It is also acknowledged that for Muslims there is but one God and Mohammed is his prophet. Islamic dogma requires opposition to non-believers.
It’s not only too easy to lump Christians, Jews and Muslims into sub-categories of a paternalistic Abrahamic monotheistic religion, it is a mistake. This connection is superficial, and historical conflicts between the members of these faiths have often been bloody and deadly, starting with the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, persecution of Christians by Jews and by persecution of Christians by Muslims today. Atheists can sit on a bench for now. Muslims will come after them.
Can humans know anything about God? Consider the concept of infinity. Humans can only imagine what infinity is, but cannot know what it is. Humans can imagine there is a Multiverse, but cannot prove the Multiverse exists. Humans can imagine what God is, but cannot know what God is. As a species we are forced to view nature in ways only meaningful to humans, a reflection of ourselves, a projection of our psyche into nature, that mirrors the way our sensory systems perceive stimuli. The Muslims have their view of nature and we have ours.
Hope for whom?
Christianity as a base law to justify invasion and conquering of Islamic nations is blasphemy.
Tell me now why you would think otherwise.
Hope for believers.
Nicene Creed
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11049a.htm [right click]
Revelation 10:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.
Matthew 24:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mark 12:30-32 King James Version (KJV)
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Nothing there mentions killing Islamic people.
That's because there weren't any Islamic peoples until some 7 centuries later.
great answer.
Yes, Jesus was born under a date palm to "Miriam" . In 1812, the British invaded Washington. Should we still hold a grudge? At what point start living in the here and now?
That's the War of 1812, NOT 1912.
oops (fixed)
U have said about your opinion without discussion to the question of why Muslims hate Americans?And u answered that the U.S. system is better than the Islamic religion and this does not answer the question, I will not go with you in discussion because it is tow long, but take this example America entered Iraq to spread democracy and the removal of Saddam under the pretext that he has chemical weapons, and proved beyond that Iraq have not chemical weapons, how many people were killed and kill tell know . Syria system now kills innocent because they wanted freedom from the system.Why America is slow to stop the conflict in Syria, while they were quick to enter Iraq despite a Security Council vote not to enter Iraq???!!!! This is an example of U.S. policy abroad
Are you sure Iraq under Saddam Hussein had the adoration of most Muslims?
In 1979, when Hussein took power in Iraq, he immediately began murdering large numbers of Kurds, the majority of whom are Muslim. He destroyed scores of Kurdish villages, killed tens of thousands of civilians — including by execution and the use of mustard gas and sarin — and relocated thousands more to other parts of Iraq. Millions of Kurdish refugees sought to escape Iraq. Not until 1992, when the U.S. and Britain stepped in, did Hussein's mass murder of the Kurds stop.
In 1980, Hussein started a bloody eight-year war against Iran. Estimates of total killed run as high as 1.5 million. The populations of Iraq and Iran are overwhelmingly Muslim. And this war between these Muslim states was particularly heinous. Air and missile strikes against large civilian populations were common. Hussein used poison gas against Iranian soldiers to reverse his battlefield losses. And prisoners of war were routinely tortured and murdered.
In 1990, Hussein ordered an invasion of Kuwait and then annexed it. Again, the vast majority of Kuwaitis are Muslim. During the occupation, there were reports that the Iraqi army raped, pillaged, and murdered at will. Hundreds of thousands of Kuwaitis fled their country in fear of their lives. When the Iraqi army was chased out of Kuwait by the Gulf War coalition, its soldiers caused tens of billions of dollars in damage to the country's infrastructure, including torching oil fields. There remain over six hundred Kuwaiti POWs for which Iraq refuses to account.
Many Americans were against the Iraq invasion and do not like G W Bush. He has earned the title of worst US President.
Worst US President
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHKbKu4wuLQ&list=PLWzZ8QCCUmH0JAPcC6KTiaqPwU7joy5Oh&feature=plpp_play_all
Islam’s Worst Enemy was Saddam Hussein http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/550172/posts
do u think araqi people want the result that happens know , or they waiting this result, tell know the araqi people killed , so what the united state brings to araqi people , saddam was not the problem , mass detraction is problem and they did not find any weapons or mass detraction
so why united state still in araq ???!!!
It might be crazy, but Hussein was what held Iraq together. The US had to rebuild a government to replace Saddam Hussein's regime.
Well Hell when George W. Bush declares war on Islam,...not a problem by itself,... then the US implements a huge glabal strategy...to put military control on 100 countries... I guess what it is 140 countries officiallly where bases are located, we have to know the US State department influence to make an assessment. Actually wer have to track the TSA, DHS, US State Deparment, along with the US Embassies.
More to your ass... Israel has a government which is for war and doesn't matter what war really. This seems to be the policy of the US by the way. So if the Israeli War mongers say something we should ignore it and place it in the box of documents from war mongers.
War Mongers
Life sucks. I don't know why people fall for this stuff. But I used to fall for it growing up too.
My assumption is that you do not see a political and lobbyist faction that supports an Israeli war and Israeli military strength through US Military Grants and US Military Foreign Military Sales.
The only Support for an Israeli War is limited and from assholes from the War Israeli Lobby (we probably call them a Neocaon-Zionist political party).
The War on Terror could last longer. The War on Terror makes money, lots and lots of money for defense contractors, and congressmen who own stock in the weapons manufacturers.
The United States has spent more than $1 trillion on wars since the September 11, 2001, terror attacks, a recently released Congressional report says.
Adjusting for inflation, the outlays for conflicts in Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere around the world make the "war on terrorism" second only to World War II.
The money given to Israel as foreign aid, about $3 billion, is chump change in comparison to what we spend on our own wars.
Anyway, the real point is that the 911Truth movement has significant evidence that bin Laden and al Qaeda could not have blown up the WTC buildings and the Pentagon. The War on Terror is a scam.
The 9-11 Attack Researchers Convene at Toronto Hearings http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6t04g4YU20&feature=fvst
Toronto 911 Hearings with Graeme MacQueen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UPwJGZfHbo&feature=relmfu
911 Toronto Hearings with Honegger Gage Chossudovsy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2YrUq2Y_C4&feature=relmfu
I;ve been pulling federal budget data myself:
1) Reagan Increased the Total Debt $1.9 Trillion.
2) H.W Bush Increased the Total debt $1.2 Trillion.
3) Clinton Increased the Total Debt $1.4 Trillion.
4) George Bush Increased the Total Debt $4.4 Trillion.
There are some late charges from one admin to the next. It makes the tracking of budgets a guess for most of us. I'm guessing and trying to account for these late charges. But didn't account for the biggest one which is the gap from George W's admin to Obamas admin $1.8 T. Really under George Bush it looked like $500 Billion a year increase in total debt, then in the last year it was $1 Trillion. But this jumped in 2010 and 2011 under Obama to $1.8 T and $1.6 T.
But those are just my personal numbers. War under George Bush could be said to have cost $4 Trillion if you want to push the point. Obama and the Congress haven't made any effort to slow authorizations for spending. This is all authorized spending by the way. It is against US Law to spend more that authorized. It is called fraud and has Jail as punishment. Anyway in 2008 there was a big jump in spending that has continued till this year (4 years).
Or look at this this way from 2002, the first year of war spending, we spent an additional $7.3 Trillion Dollars in just 8 Years (added $7.3 to the total debt).
This military spending has been a waste. Romney wants to increase military spending.This American military spending is outdated early 20th century psychosis.
Third Presidential Debate 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPb5emqCFXc
You are correct except for Israel. That is definetly part of the problem. Islam considers Jerusalem the third holiest city.
Jerusalem is not mentioned in the koran AND mohammed never went there.
And that effects what in reality?
so, the muslims say that jerusalem is their 3rd most important holy city. mohammed never went there, it isnt mentioned in the koran.so why is it important?
I thought that Islam was about an abstract god
not one which fixated on idols
the kaaba , which is in mecca is actually a piece of a meteorite. according to the koran , muslims must make a pilgrimage at least once in their lifetime to mecca .
And Israel allows Muslims into Jerusalem
UNLIKE when the Arabs controlled the city
AND in saudi arabia its against the law to wear a star of david or a crucifix. AND being homosexual is punishable by execution.
leave the US? my government might attack me
I suggest you reaserch some history in that part of the world. The Crusades would be a good place to start.
the muslims captured jerusalem and lost it. it went back and forth. that doesnt make it a holy city for them. on the other hand, about 2000 yrs ago jerusalem was the capitol city of israel, david was the king. the western wall of his temple still remains.
The carving up of land to fit Isreal back in, was a UK concept post WWII.
The largest nation-state in history was the Persian empire. Iran is currently what is left of it. Most of what we currently assume to be "western" wisdom is from the Persians.
please be specific. what " western" wisdom came from the persians?
Take a look at this great video.
http://www.youtubedocumentaries.com/documentary.cfm?name=The_Persian_Empire
Thats it? you said most. seems to be an awful lot missing.
Did you watch all five episodes?
The fact that conquerors destroy the evidence of their foe's intelligence is old hat.
The Roman's got the pat on the back for aquaducts, but they were copying the Persian's methodology. Same with cement and mortar products. Heard of the library of Alexandria? Destroyed most of the knowledge base of the world in one fire.
,the arch, the dome, candles, plumbing,
The kindness to the conquered?
The bridges built of boats?
The largest empire the world has ever seen?
The way Islam is portrayed in corp-owned media, you'd think they just recently climbed down from the trees.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
you are judged by your actions. islam is fascism , does that appeal to you? http://thereligionodpeace.com/
It is not necessary to be an expert on the Middle East to question Islam’s claims on Jerusalem. Structures in Jerusalem date from 2500 BC. Islam didn’t exist until 7th century AD. The Muslims are occupiers. Jerusalem was a conquest. Muslims didn’t build it. They claim it as one of their holiest cities. Their claim is junior to both Christianity and Judaism.
Provide some tangible proof of your claims, Douglas Adams.
The only time I hear of the Israelis in history, someone is either persecuting them, or bailing their arses out of the shit. That alone would lead me to believe that their shit always comes after someone else's shit.
Bring it, or STFU.
Given that Muhammad started Islam, and that Muhammad lived from 570 AD to 632 AD, then Islam didn’t exist until the 7th century AD. Biblical records refer to Jerusalem in 19th century BC. Jerusalem was already established as a fortified city about 2500 years before Muhammad was born.
Middle Bronze Age (2000–1550 BCE)
Middle Bronze Age Jerusalem is mentioned several times in Egyptian texts from the 19th-18th centuries BCE. It is mentioned in this era in the biblical story of Melchizedek.(Genesis 14:18-20) In this period the city is sufficiently large and powerful to construct a "massive" stone wall to defend its water supply, the Gihon Spring, by protecting the vulnerable passage from the top of the hill to the spring tower below.
Jerusalem City of David
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_David
Jerusalem was not built in a day.
According to the Bible, before King David's conquest of Jerusalem in the 11th century BCE the city was home to the Jebusites. The Bible describes the city as heavily fortified with a strong city wall. The city ruled by King David, known as Ir David, or the City of David, is now believed to be southwest of the Old City walls, outside the Dung Gate. His son King Solomon extended the city walls and then, in about 440 BCE, in the Persian period, Nehemiah returned from Babylon and rebuilt them. In 41-44 CE, Agrippa, king of Judea, built a new city wall known as the "Third Wall."
Muslims occupied Jerusalem in the 7th Century (637 CE) under the second caliph, Umar Ibn al-Khattab who annexed it to the Islamic Arab Empire. He granted its inhabitants an assurance treaty. After the siege of Jerusalem, Sophronius welcomed `Umar because, according to biblical prophecies allegedly known to the church in Jerusalem, "a poor, but just and powerful man" will rise to be a protector and an ally to the Christians of Jerusalem.
Jerusalem the Old City
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_City_(Jerusalem)
Muslims are come-lately occupiers of Jerusalem and had little to do with building it.
And the PLO rejected an offer to give them part of Jerusalem
your correct !
Here's a puzzle.
Just today, the US State Dept called on the Sri Lankan government to take some credible action in regard to war crimes during the anti-Tamil civil war recently concluded. This was a war instigated by Buddhists, not people in a Buddhist society, the leading Buddhist religious figures. No mention is ever made of the Buddhist involvement in political viciousness.
Compare this to the treatment of Islam. Islam is almost never given any 'spiritual' respect, and any act of violence, by any of Islam's billion plus people is laid at the door of the religion. WHY?
Muslim and Western ideals are different in some respects. The West likes freedom of religion and speech. The Muslims want everyone to respect their religion and its Prophets, and they don't like criticism of Islam or its promulgators. Israel? The Muslims are upset that Israelis moved into what was Muslim territory. I wonder if they are also angry at Spain for the same reason (the Reconquista).
I think that is one of many reasons why.
Well, that is I believe the main reason. Plus our overbearing, arrogant meddling in Muslim countries. But considering the constant screaming of our politicians about Israel ( Wasserman-Shultz, Palin, pretty much 75% of the rest of them) it's no wonder why so many Muslims are pissed.
Or maybe its because we do things to dead bodies THEY dont like
Or maybe its because we burn books THEY do like
Or maybe its because we make movies THEY dont like
Or maybe its because we dont do fatwas
Or maybe because we are different
or maybe its becuse we don't believe in shooting 14 year old girls in the head
How many billions did America give to the PLO ?
Yes - Americans & America gave Israel billions - and Israel built a modern secure state.
Imagine what would happen if the Arab countries gave just 1% of thier oil revenue to build a modern secure Palestinian state
BUT THEY DONT
Israel integrated Jewish refugees from Arab dictatorships
Jordan put Arab refugees in camps - for decades
WHY
does the word SCAPEGOAT ring a bell ?
"When they love their children more than they hate us, there will be peace" .. Golda
but they strap bombs to their children
The Specialist Interests' and United States Government's unwavering support for imperialism is why the Muslim world hates America.
Thousands of Libyans came out in support of the murdered US diplomats the next day!
Many reports of the Bengazhi attacks indicate they were planned by Al Qaeda in Libya to coincide with 9/11 anniversary, and as revenge for the drone death of Libyan Al Qaeda #2 Abu Yayah Al Libi.
Those reports indicate a small peaceful protest and then an organized group heavily armed, arriving in pickups, flying the black Al Qaeda flag.
Many Egyptians hate us for the reasons mentioned, support of isreal, support of Mubarak.
But our current govt did something unexpected, we came out against Mubarak, and we've been criticized for not supporting Israel blindly. Just this week we refused to even meet with them, And have continued resisting the intense Israel/US right wing war mongering pressure to invade Iran.
This I'm sure is lost on most protesting Egyptians. I've seen many protesters site the film, the US slow condemnation, the US pressure on Moorsi to crack down.
I think these specific grass roots reasons are serious and reliable. I just watched an Egyptian citizen journalist discuss how the many unemployed, angry people who have been incited by extremist groups are mostly not creating excessive violence.
She went on to say the 1st protests began in Egypt, the film was Egyptian coptic (ultra conservative) made with the express purpose of creating this explosion. She suggested that American/Isreali right wing is believed to be involved by Egyptian protesters, because the right wing might benefit from major violence/failure in ME.
Too deep? There's more!
This is so hilarious.....You all truly think you are that different from the people of the East or any other continent on this earth?
This is what takes place when people fail to learn the truth about their past.
Santayana is known for the sayings, " Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it", and "[O]nly the dead have seen the end of war."
We all like to live in some type of fake insulated bubble and believe we have nothing to do with what was, is or will take place on this planet!
Dream on sleepyheads! We, you, all and everyone did this and has a hand in this. Believe it or not!
So what are you gonna do about it? Wash your hands in feigned innocence? What a crock!!
Are you seriously saying that there are no real cultural differences between east and west?
Not really......all manner or murder, mayhem, oppression, rape, annihilation, ignorance, scape-goat ism, desecration of cultures and religions, dogmatism, and the inability to honor human equality has been practiced by all nations, all peoples of all creeds, colors, nationalities and financial status.... If anyone disagrees, please....prove me wrong. .
Well, we don't stone adulteres to death.
or execute people for the " crime" of being gay. muslims do that.
Of course not, men in America just slit their wives throats, or strangle em to death with their bare hands, or stab both adulterers, or hire an undercover cop posing as a hit man, or better yet, cut up both their torsos and float them down the river........or just make it easy by just pointing and "shoot to kill".
How civilized we pretend to be.... If anyone disagrees, please.....prove me wrong.
Their religion doesn't tell them to kill women. Islam does. Never mind. You are the single most brainwashed "person" I've ever seen here.
No, you tell me who actually cast the first stone...remember? King James Bible......
John 8 Vs.3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him."
So....were these people of the Islamic faith in the King James version of the bible? Were these people before or after Mohammed? Were these people the same Israelites that exist today? And......how long had they been practicing this antiquated belief? So, my question is.....who really started this shyt?
I think humans are pretty much the same
You are wrong. Culture makes the real difference.
a real difference
Could it be because they represent a Truth that is getting annihilated by the secular economy? I mean our calendar refers to what?
They? Truth? Whose truth?
Look at it this way: Despite how vogue it is to be postmodern, people don't put their lives on the line for fantasies or fairy tales. You won't find any scientist risking their life for a theory. Consider that.
Good point.
We could but it wouldn't make any difference.
Our one big mistake was giving them OUR oil wells.
Not just America & Israel
1990 - 2005
1990 In July, the Jama'at al Muslimeen under the control of Imam Yasin Abu Bakr attempts a violent coup in Trinidad and Tobago to establish a Moslem extremist state. Jama'at al Muslimeen is still in business today.
1996-2005 Westerners first read the word “madrassa” when this form of extremist, Saudi-backed religious school educates and graduates the leaders of Afghanistan’s Taleban. Later it turns out that the Saudis have established these “suicide bomber factories” in Bangladesh, India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Russia, the Balkans, Western Europe, and North America., It also turns out that the Jamia Binoria society of madrassas in Karachi, Pakistan, is attracting foreign students from 30 countries, including the US, and educating them in Saudi-style Wahabi extremism.
1999 The Philippine Moro National Liberation Front buys 10,000 M16 automatic rifles and grenades from North Korean dealer Lim Kyu-do. It also puts a down payment on North Korean mini-submarines.
1999 September 4, “a car bomb detonated outside an apartment building housing Russian soldiers in the city of Buinaksk, in the province of Dagestan. 64 people were killed and dozens of others were wounded. Russia blamed Chechen separatists, who would days later invade the province from neighboring Chech nya.”
1999 September 8, “300 kg to 400 kg of explosives detonated on the ground floor of an apartment building in southeast Moscow. The nine-story building was destroyed, killing 94 people inside and wounded 150 others.
1999 September 16 truck bomb “outside a nine-story apartment complex in the southern Russian city of Volgodonsk, killing 17 people.”
2000 Islamic militants mount an intense bombing campaign in South Africa
2001 May 5. Muslim militants converge on the Moluccas, the spice islands of Indonesia, to defend Moslems against “a Christian conspiracy”. Thousands are killed.
2001 March 22 Anti-slavery groups report that there are 27 million modern slaves “From Khartoum to Calcutta, from Brazil to Bangladesh”. Most seem to be in Islamic countries.
2003 June 5 Two female suicide bombers detonate themselves at a rock concert near Moscow killing 14.
2003 October 23. Roughly 1,000 audience members are taken hostage when mahahedin chanting, “We love death more than you love life” take over an entire Moscow theater—the Dubrovka. 130 die.
2003 Police in the Indian hill resort of Kud arrest a young driver and his girlfriend—couriers carrying $100,000 in American donations to finance a never-ending Jihad in Kashmir.
2004-2005 Arab Janjaweed tribesmen prey on the black Islamic population of their own country—the Shariah-run nation of Sudan. “Janjaweed, Arab militias armed by the government, have carried out ethnic cleansing, systematic rape” and enslavement.,
2004 In Amsterdam, a 26-year-old Dutch Moroccan shoots filmmaker Theo Van Gogh while Van Gogh is bicycling. “I know definitely that you, Oh America, will go down. I know definitely that you, Oh Europe, will go down. I know definitely that you, Oh Netherlands, will go down.”
2004 March 11 thirteen bombs on commuter trains triggered to go off simultaneously at height of Madrid rush hour. Responsibility is claimed by al Qaeda in Europe.
2004 January 4 30 armed mujahedin storm military armory and steal 380 M-16s in Narathiwat, Southern Thailand. Meanwhile 18 schools are set afire.
2004 April 28. 112 killed when machete armed teenage mujahedin wearing red headbands and black t-shirts with Islamic slogans attack a dozen police posts in 3 provinces in Southern Thailand.
2004-2005 The jihad in Southern Thailand kills 860 in 18 months. Vendors sell CDs of beheadings with titles like “Jihad in Chechnya 2000”.
2005 July 7, London 4 bombings—3 in subways & 1 on a double-decker bus kill 54 people.
2005 July 14 60 muhahedin attack the regional capital of Yala in Thailand, killing 2, injuring 22, plunging city into darkness A few days earlier a school headmistress is murdered & 2 Buddhist women are beheaded.
we can't accept other people traditions and our tremendous imperialistic suppression on their lives because we are so ignorant! WHAT!
Have you ever read the Qu'ran ? The answer is there
the "other" is the inferior, the enemy, the hated
Sunnis kill Shiites, Shiites kill Sunnis - by the millions
Somalia Algeria Iran-Iraq Nigeria Sudan ................................
If "the Muslim world" really cared about their brothers,
they could have been pouring money into the West Bank & Gaza to build and educate
Or you could ask binladen -
he did what he did because the Saudi royals invited American troops into "his" country
I think it's more along the lines of propping up foreign dictators when it benefits us and hurts the people in the particular country...and then turning around and toppling democracies chosen by the people when the democracy doesn't do what we want them to.
I wouldn't say muslims hate us....generalization....i would say many citizens overseas in the middle easy want us the heck out of their lands and our hands out of their resources.
Cause we gots hot chicks!
I never knew they hated me.
Well if it's just a Muslim thing, that would make it a religious thing and implies that no one else hates us for shared non-religious reasons.
Another way to look at it ( and - NO this does not relate to Israel )
Jews kill Arabs
Arabs kill Jews
Sunni kill Shiite
Shiite kill Sunni
Since 1947, Israelis have killed 35,000 Arabs
Since 1947, Arabs have killed 11,000,000 Arabs
Is there any real difference between the radical Muslims of today
and the Catholic church 1000 years ago?
If you are not like me, you are a heretic - an infadel - an enemy
and I will send a crusade or a jihad or a fatwa to destroy you
Is there any real difference between the radical Muslims of today
and the Catholic church 1000 years ago?
As long as "people" worship books and pictures -
and believe violence is better than reason -
and that they are better than you -
this insanity will continue
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Intolerance of others - Job security for Morticians.
"imagine no religion" JL
God created man
God allowed man to create religion
to keep the crazies away from Him
LOL
yes, that was 1000 years ago. this is 2012. www.thereligionofpeace.com
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Okay. We now understand you are a Zionist and anti Muslim. No, I don't think they would instantly love us. So how would you "educate" them?
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Blather blather.....
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Blather...cliche...blather....
i dont normally agree with zen dog ever but he is actually right there is some people that just will hate to hate
It is in the Qur'an. Read for yourself:
http://al-quran.info/?x=y#&&sura=76&aya=1&trans=en-yusuf_ali&show=both&ver=2.00
Search the word "believer" (it will give you 259 references) and read both highlighted "believer" and "unbeliever."
It will give you some insight, I think. Also search "infidel" and "kill," if you have the time.
Jefferson asked the very same question; their reply: "it's because you are Christians."
they are uneducated, not very bright, and have a deep deep disdain for freedom. they love death and killing brings them an ecstasy free , moral people can never understand. do they know we are laughing at them?
no one distains freedom
they do they refuse to accept that free people can insult whomever they choose. whatever they choose.. its called free speech
the media won't call out the white house press
Man...you gotta educate yourself. Muslim "extremism" has nothing to do with them loving dealth and killing...that's ridiculous. All you have to do is sit down and actually watch one of them speak for like 2 seconds to realize why they fight. Foreign occupation of their country and/or holy sites.
People like you feed this BS story and fuel fear in people...instead of actually studying the situation a little bit and actually understanding your supposed enemy. Read Robert Papes "dying to win" where he has done the most comprehensive study on suicide terrorism to date. Studies every suicide terrorist attack going back to the early 80's, and charts all the known data about why they occur.
People like you claim their ("terrorists") aim is just to kill christians...no matter where and however they can. The problem is the data doesn't support your conclusion...at all. IF islamic fundamentalism really sought to just target free peoples around the world....why does Hamas and Al-qaeda ONLY attack countries occupying their land. Hamas focuses on Israel (for palestine) and Al-qaeda the US for occupation of the Arabian Peninsula. Al-qaeda has not attacked Israel...and Hamas hasn't attacked the US.
Lets look at the initiation of attacks and see if we can conclude something. Al-qaeda never attacked the US before 1990....what happened in 1990? Same year we sent troops to Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Bahrain. Arabian penisula went from 693 troops in 1989 to 31,636 in 1990.
Bin laden even openly (you can watch this on freaking youtube) explains the motivations on the attacks...and it is to "remove western troops from our holy lands."
You say that Al-qaeda attacks European countries....there wasn't a single european attack from al-qaeda UNTIL european troops arrived in afghanistan in 2001 and iraq in 2003.
Now look at Lebanon and Hezbollah. Hezbollah was the first modern suicide terrorist organization. How did it form? When French, Americans and Israel invaded Lebanon. Israel had a massive occuption of the country when it started. Before 1982 Hezbolllah didn't exist...what happened in 1982? Israel invaded. Israels initial invasion was estimated to kill 3000-5000 civilians and left around 70,000-80,000 homeless. So it was worse than our sept 11 attacks. Look how many people we've killed because of our sept 11th attacks....according to your logic we should be labeled terrorists who just enjoy killing people for the fun of it. But we know that is ridiculous...we're protecting ourselves.....just like they are.
Another key point of Papes findings based on data collected on individual terrorists. The suicide terrorists as a whole are not uneducated or poor......they were usually middle class and had good educations and jobs.
Educate yourself....and stop spewing ignorant uneducated BS.
you dont mention the fellow arabs that they kill. most suicide bombs go off in the middle east.. not other countries..
Yeah....the middle east....where our troops are stationed...hint hint. I'd be fighting if a foreign country was stationed in the US taking our oil...or overthrowing our government.
then how do you account for the previous 6000 years.. at least 200 or so when at the most.. americans were making the leader types rich
Dont' understand your question...how do i explain muslims over the last 6000 years and their killings? Is that what you mean?
yes.. you seem to be implying that these suicide bombs.. , etc,, are all being caused by american exploitation.. that wasnt happening the last 6000 years theyve been at it.. it doesnt explain the last 50 years even.. so how can you claim it has to do with americans thats just a new excuse for them nothing to do with the fact they just like killing.. for what ever reason they can fabricate its a cultural thing.. like jailing doctors that care for the other side.. its just the way they think
Then-Secretary of State Madeleine Albright's quote, calmly asserting that U.S. policy objectives were worth the sacrifice of half a million Arab children, has been much quoted in the Arabic press. It's also been cited in the United States in alternative commentary on the September 11 attacks (e.g., Alexander Cockburn, New York Press, 9/26/01).
But a Dow Jones search of mainstream news sources since September 11 turns up only one reference to the quote--in an op-ed in the Orange Country Register (9/16/01). This omission is striking, given the major role that Iraq sanctions play in the ideology of archenemy Osama bin Laden; his recruitment video features pictures of Iraqi babies wasting away from malnutrition and lack of medicine (New York Daily News, 9/28/01). The inference that Albright and the terrorists may have shared a common rationale--a belief that the deaths of thousands of innocents are a price worth paying to achieve one's political ends--does not seem to be one that can be made in U.S. mass media.
It's worth noting that on 60 Minutes, Albright made no attempt to deny the figure given by Stahl--a rough rendering of the preliminary estimate in a 1995 U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) report that 567,000 Iraqi children under the age of five had died as a result of the sanctions.
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1084
Video of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4PgpbQfxgo
We're talking about suicide terrorist attacks on modern military and civilians....not the historical record of everyone that has been killed by the muslim faith. If you want to fight that fight just look at the christian record...i can't say it's any better....thousands of years of death and murder:
http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm
That doesn't make all christians murders...or the christian faith evil though....just like it doesn't for muslims.
"it doesn't explain the last 50 years even"
It absolutely explains the last 50 years.....it's the only thing that does explain the last 50 years. Modern suicide terrorism doesn't exist at one point....our troops start occupying lands....those very lands that are being occupied produce suicide terrorism against the very countries (and not against other free countries) occupying the land in question. When the occupying force leaves...suicide terrorism ceases to exist in those areas. About as obvious as it gets.
I'm not making excuses for suicide terrorism..i'm explaining a motive for it. A detective always looks for a motive in a murder case...not to make up excuses for the murder, but to understand why it is happening.
you still cannot deny that these tactics are a direct result of cultural behavior a culture that believes killing is ok.. not like other cultures that believe killing is the last option. before america got involved.. it was sheites killing shites or what ever the different belief patterns were.. it was accepted and taught as a way of life. that you kill anyone that doesnt concur with your particular outlook. so as i said.. this current anti americanism is just one more new reasoning for them
It's like you cherry pick history and forget everything else. Protestant reformation? Christians killing Christians...same thing. Or how about the civil war....americans killing americans.
The suicide terrorist attacks didn't occur until we invaded their lands. It is not part of their cultural behavior to kill people. If China invaded this country and took advantage of our resources (oil) would you not take up arms and fight them? Perhaps kill to protect your homeland and the beliefs we have here? I would...no question about it. That is what these "extremists" are doing....and americans are too ignorant to sit down and figure out that we're not being killed for our freedoms...we're being killed for what we do in the muslim world.
Robert pape...who did the most comprehensive study on every suicide terrorist since 1980 (like down the the nitty gritty...where they went to school...religion...wealth...where they were from...what age...work life and on and on).....and Michael Scheuer former head of the Bin Laden unit for the CIA both say you're completely and totally wrong.
Al-Qaeda doesn't have lands, what are you smoking?
Ignorance is bliss isn't it.
:-/
Liberals don't laugh at them.
they should
Of course not they are scared to death of them! Libs will mock every relig. But that one.
So.. if there was no Israel...Muslims would love America?
BULL FUCKING SHIT. They hate us because they are stone age savages who have not evolved yet as members of the human race
People like you still exist?
Ignorance....lovely
Educate yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFXfMfE43jI
And there it is.
Obama is a muslim and does not like America either
sigh
muslims hate anyone that isnt muslim, worse they kill their own for not being " muslims enough" tolerance is unknown in islam.
Actually, if I were a moderator I'd ban you for your racist comment. That crap is unwelcome here.
Racist?
Alva's comment is anti-muslim, but it's true that the Qur'an does not promote friendship with people who are not muslim. This is one aspect of the Qur'an I always had problems with. However, there are various interpretations and may muslims have friends who are from other religions.
Here are a few passages which remark the problematic of befriending non-muslims. It's a problem because if you pertain to being muslim, then you should follow the Qur'an. Of course, most muslims choose what they want to follow and most don't follow these verses. Most people who follow other religions also cherry pick in this fashion.
This is also the reason why many muslims want to create their own land ruled by their law, Sharia. This would permit them not to allow other belief systems.
'Tr@shyMckeel' : It is also true that The Torah "does not promote friendship with people who are not" Jewish / Hebrews / Israelites !!! The OT is awash with slaughter & race/religio-spiritual supremacism !! People who professed Christianity too have blood on their hands !
Should we therefore hold such things against All People Of Judaic origin ? Of course not. Further, one could also find numerous historic examples of Christian Exclusivism and Violence and finally consider that quoting 'scripture' so as to condemn religions is really very easy to do indeed !!
If someone "pertains" to being Jewish or Christian "then one should follow" The Torah or New Testament. "Of course" most Jews and Christians "choose what they want to follow and most don't follow these verses. Most people who follow other religions also cherry pick in this fashion." Finally, I'm not at all sure that "many muslims" want to be ruled under 'sharia law' but I am far more sure that The Saudi Royal Family Cult of Wahabism would like to become some kind of Faux Islamic Orthodoxy !!!
ad iudicium ...
Read what I wrote once more.
I did not say we should be against all muslims, I only quoted parts of the Qur'an that identify where part of the problem with extremists comes from. I have many muslim friends, and many of them find these passages problematic themselves, because they are! People like Irshad Manji, a prominent lesbian muslim, talks about these problems herself. Actually, these passages were brought to my intention by muslims who learned them as children during their time at the Madrasa. They brought these quotes up when they were discussing between themselves since many of them had friends from other religions and had a hard time interpreting these passages in a fashion that would reconcile their faith in Islam with their social circles.
As for bringing up the comparison to other religions, that's simply a red herring on your part. I talked about muslims because that is what this thread is about, but there are problems with every religion. And, I agree, all religions have their hands soaked in blood.
Respecting the beliefs of others does not mean turning a blind eye to some problems with those beliefs. I read the Qur'an, the Bible, and the Torah, and other religious books because this interests me. I find problems in all of them. I am a man of science after all. If you believe these religious texts have no inconsistencies and do not all contain sword verses, then I suggest you read them again.
'TrMM' : We actually have that rare moment of agreement 'entre nous'. My point, which could have been better made - was that Islam and Muslims alone can not fairly be singled out without reference to similar factors and circumstances in Judaism and Christianity which is not a red herring, 'imo' and I too find big problems with all three of them.
I do NOT "believe these religious texts have no inconsistencies" - lol and I thoroughly agree with your : "respecting the beliefs of others does not mean turning a blind eye to some problems with those beliefs." - I just have a bit of a big problem with only singling out one religion out of the three related Abrahamic faiths for purely political purposes.
There is no shortage of anti-Muslim sentiment in society at large and on this forum too - and what, why and how my feelings are on that matter is really all over this thread. If my comment to you just above seemed accusatory then it wasn't actually meant to be.
fiat lux ...
It is a red herring because I never singled-out muslims. You're trying to imply that I did, when, in reality, I am writing on the topic of this posing.
Again, a red herring. You're not replying to what I wrote.
If you want to discuss the problematic I raised with my Qur'an quote, let's do it. If you want to keep changing the goal posts, then I'm not interested.
Calm down and don't look for a fight. I have got to go anyway, so another time 'Trashy' - be good ;-)
vale ...
I am calm, and I'm not looking for a fight. That's just another ad hominem of yours. Sigh... I just wish people here would learn the art of proper discussion instead of always using logical fallacy after logical fallacy.
'TrMM' : It's cool and for sure I let our history impinge on your points on this thread and on this matter, we probably agree on much {:-o) & I reread what you said. I don't really have any right to ask anything of you but I do genuinely request you to see my comment at the top and then briefly scope through my comments on here on this thread, in order to see where I'm coming from on this matter.
et desole' ...
look up taqyyia. the handy dandy loophole of islam .
the old " racist" response meant to shut down free speech. the truth is not racism. you refuse to see islam for what it is. its fascsim. http://thereligionofpeace.com/
tch, Tch, TCH !!! & again : http://occupywallst.org/forum/okay-folks-can-we-now-talk-about-why-the-muslim-wo/#comment-856195 !! You really are an incorrigible bigot !
fiat lux ...
undertstanding the enemy is not bigotry. over and over and over muslims have shown by their actions, what they are. NOT what the p.c. world would have you believe.
"The enemy" ?! All 1 billion plus humans ?!! Are you insane ?!!!
nosce te ipsum ...
im not, they are. do you believe in live and let live? they dont.i assume you agree that women are entitled to an education, they dont. do you think that because a person is gay they should executed? they do.
"They" ? "The Enemy" you mean ?! How come you think you know so much about 'them' and how and what "they" think ?!! Do you know any of 'them' ?!!!
multum in parvo ...
its not" what they" " think" its sharia law.educate yourself. do you belong to a religious group? non religious? athiest? no one cares. muslims that leave islam are apostates and subject to death.
Your abject hate will corrode your mind ; twist your soul & further diminish what's left of your spirit.
caveat ...
i dont hate. islam teaches hate and intolerance.
"The Great Islamophobic Crusade", by Max Blumenthal ; http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32432.htm ,
fiat pax ...
[Removed]
Fkn Hate-Mongering Prick !!! You know less than Fuk-All !! We should know an evil, lying, propagandist dog like you by his yappy li'l BS-Bark !
I was gonna go to bed - but I may stay up & kick the the shit outta you instead, so bring it numbnuts - put your facts, your links, your argued positions and substantiated opinions to the fore and on the table and let's all see what you've got.
vincit qui se vincit ...
you refuse the truth about islam. http:///www.thereligionofpeace.com/
The "truth" as promulgated by who ?! You ?!! Fk That !!! What I "refuse" to do is condemn over 1 billion people due to the actions of a minority of extremists - especially when the primary force behind these extremists are the arch-allies of the USA - namely the KSA !! I too can also find inks to any number of similar propagandist anti-Jewish, anti-Catholic, anti-Mormon etc. web-sites but if I constantly pushed them, what would that make me, d'you think ?!
I am disinclined to waste much more time repeating myself to a prejudiced, hate-monger like you, so these links will suffice :
http://occupywallst.org/forum/okay-folks-can-we-now-talk-about-why-the-muslim-wo/#comment-834025 ;
http://occupywallst.org/forum/okay-folks-can-we-now-talk-about-why-the-muslim-wo/#comment-834723 ;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia ,
"The Great Islamophobic Crusade", by Max Blumenthal ; http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32432.htm &
"Dumb and Hateful : The Consequences of US Islamophobia", by Andrew Bacevich : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32549.htm .
There is simply no reasoning whatsoever with ignorant, hate-mongers like you but ultimately your Dark BS will wither when faced with love, logic & light.
e tenebris, lux ...
you have no understanding of islam. islam is a politcal system.
You on the other hand seem to "have no understanding of" human beings !!! Your idiotic inability to see Islam as anything other than totally falsely homogeneous and monolithic, shows your ignorance and prejudices !! Again : http://occupywallst.org/forum/okay-folks-can-we-now-talk-about-why-the-muslim-wo/#comment-834549 !
vincit qui se vincit ...
you have no unserstanding of islam.
I have good understanding of you though and you're a stuck record.
temet nosce ...
islam is easy to understand once you take off your self imposed blinders.
For you, I suspect everything "is easy to understand" - except yourself !!
veritas vos liberabit ...
none so blind as those who will not see.
Whereas, "an empty vessel make the most noise" !!
verum ex absurdo ...
speaking about yourself again?
"Dumb and Hateful : The Consequences of US Islamophobia", by Andrew Bacevich : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32549.htm .
fiat lux ...
You call him a hate mongering prick? Sounds like you wear the same hat.
WTF would you know, scumbag ?! Now read the entire fkn thread & see if your atrophied heart and near empty head can learn something !! No compromise with spineless bigots and specious hatemongers - not on this forum anyway. Go ply your shit somewhere where it'll be appreciated.
temet nosce ...
Such an angry bigot, your hate has made you irrational, unfeeling. You have nothing but nasty names for people who disagree with and you. The in you has eating up your logic and ability to be rational, you have become what you hate. I feel sorry you, for you it's easier to blame others and not look inward. I doubt you can really see what a shell of a person you are.
Well phrased and for sure you have some sort of point and thus a nod to contrition on my part may be required here. Especially as I don't quite recall exactly what was on my mind when I commented above with my 'brainfart' tinged with apoplexy at 'alva' ! Indeed, I hope he reads your thought provoking words. For insight into why I may have been so irked at him, please scroll up a l'il, lol.
Your comment further goes to show that "'fear', which is the absence of Love - leads to 'anger' which begets anger, which leads to 'hate' which begets more hate - all leading to avoidable 'suffering' IF we open our minds to universal 'heart-centred' thinking."
mea culpa et pax, amor et lux ...
[ps : I'm just about to watch a documentary about the Trayvon Martin murder in Florida and will reflect on your words further.]