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Forum Post: Oil Yes! Union No!

Posted 1 year ago on April 3, 2013, 1:51 p.m. EST by shooz (17952)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Iraqi freedom.......LOL

Not if you want to unionize, then it's threats of prison.

"Many Iraqi oil workers thought the fall of Saddam Hussein would mean they would finally be free to organize unions, and that their nationally owned industry would be devoted to financing the reconstruction of the country. But the reality could not have been more different. Earlier this month, the head of the Iraqi Federation of Oil Unions, Hassan Juma’a (below right), was hauled into a Basra courtroom and accused of organizing strikes, a charge for which he could face prison time. The union he heads is still technically illegal: Saddam’s ban on public-sector unions was the sole Saddam-era dictate kept in place under the U.S. occupation, and Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki hasn't shown any interest in changing it since most U.S. troops left."




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[-] 3 points by ZenDog (13639) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

well that just sucks. Not all that surprising . . . .

The public needs to put its foot down, and insist that the union busting conspiracy is in fact a direct attack on Constitutionally protected civil liberty, namely that of assembly. The people have the right to assemble.

And if the law will not defend the Constitution, then perhaps the public must simply get out the torches, the pitchforks, and the ropes for lynchin

Then at least we could be reasonably sure we would no longer be exporting the death of civil liberty world wide

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

"There is no easy way to create a world where men and women can live together, where each has his own job and house and where all children receive as much education as their minds can absorb. But if such a world is created in our lifetime, it will be done in the United States by Negroes and white people of good will. It will be accomplished by persons who have the courage to put an end to suffering by willingly suffering themselves rather than inflict suffering upon others. It will be done by rejecting the racism, materialism and violence that has characterized Western civilization and especially by working toward a world of brotherhood, cooperation and peace. MLK 1966

[-] 1 points by shooz (17952) 1 year ago

Shit, they don't want us to have them here anymore. You think they really care about Iraq?

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13639) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

my god, that movie you linked to the other day - suggesting that the Lynch incident was choreographed - or maybe that's me. Of course they took advantage of the incident - that's obvious.

But no, they don't care about Iraq, never did, and hence, they disbanded the military, the only force capable of maintaining stability, never planned on the preservation of cultural sites, assumed we actually would be treated as liberators, and if we were not, oh well . . .

[-] 1 points by shooz (17952) 1 year ago

Of course it was choreographed. Photo ops are photo psyops.

Everything on the news except the stuff from Manning are psyops.

Maintaining that is why they shot that reporter in the first place.

He wasn't embedded, so he had to be "dealt" with..

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (13639) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Photo ops are one thing, choreographing a shootout and abduction in a war zone in such a way that is becomes useful propaganda is quite another.

I mean, I know the fukers are good, I just don't believe they are quite that good

[-] 1 points by shooz (17952) 1 year ago

I'll have to watch it again. I thought you were talking about the statue pull down.

But yeah, we'd all be surprised to know how good at it they really are.

They don't spend billions studying it for nothing.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13639) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

They mentioned the Jessica Lynch thing, which was a terrific photo op, no doubt. I might well have been hearing something they didn't say. I think I was tired when I started watching it.

I haven't finished it yet - have to get back to it. It's worth reviewing a couple of times, and taking notes.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17952) 1 year ago

Yep. It was a 90min movie. I can't recall exactly what they said about the incident either.

I'll watch it again soon.


[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Peaceful assembly ends when we allow it to end.

Remember the macing and the batons to the head?

Remember the stun grenades used on civilians?

[-] 3 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Martin Luther King and Gandhi proved we don't have to lower ourselves to the same level as tyrants to achieve justice.

Look at it from the tyrants point of view, once they have Occupy and similar groups engaging in violence, it will legitimize even more violence against us and the entire nation, by legislation, and by marshal law. It's exactly what they want and the majority of people will support them.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I understand what you are saying.

The other side of the coin is, the pitchforks and torches are a sign that we've been pushed to the limit, and won't take any more of the same. We are allowed to defend ourselves, right? Against tyranny?

Or do we just allow ourselves to be treated illegally? Imprisoned without a trial? Nelson Mandela spent the best part of his life in jail. Is that what we all should do?

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

What is more powerful than violence? Non cooperation. Every time we pay taxes, purchase goods and services that benefit Wall Street, or serve in the armed forces, we are supporting the very tyranny that we so loudly object to.

Even if we never uttered another word in protest, our well focused and united non cooperation can topple the current tyranny in a matter of weeks. It's a matter of human ingenuity at it's best, not the violence of animals at their worst.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Of the 99%, I'd estimate that 98% are stuck in a form of consumer psycopathy, and could never plausibly join the cause. What is your opinion on that?

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

From what I've seen on the street, on TV, and even family, that's fairly accurate.

Think about this. We're called consumers, or taxpayers, or voters, for a specific reason. What is continually reinforced eventually becomes perceived as reality.

The reality is that we are human beings only.

[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I've been told that I'm wasting my time and life even being concerned about the actions of the fascists.

The usual cry is that "there's nothing you can do about it".

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

"there's nothing you can do about it".

A powerful meme started by the Fascists.

Non cooperation with tyranny is the meme that needs to be spread.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Gotta get around the fear factor first.

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Once people realize that true power lies in their joined hands, that knowledge put into action will defeat the ultimate weapon of any tyranny, fear.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I admire your sentiment, and appreciate your efforts.

Can we counter the propaganda with our own?

Online news channels like RT, Al Jazeera, The Young Turks are a start.

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

We need a single issue that even the average person can clearly see the injustice. One that's felt directly by the majority and that can be defeated by their non cooperation. It needs to have a feedback loop. The more they refuse to cooperate, the more they feel the benefit of their actions.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I would have thought that austerity/sequester measures would tip the scales, but it seems that people are content to whinge and complain, then it's just back to work we go.

We've seen illegal invasions, causing mutations in babies through munitions contamination, outright neglect of war veterans, robo-signing of mortgages, creating lifelong paupers out of working people, destruction of habitat for the profit margins of greedy pigs.

What do you think it will take to galvanise the people into action?

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21336) 1 year ago

These are good ideas. So for instance, if kids, all at once, didn't pay their student loans one month. This would be very powerful. But, how do we get them to do this? How do we get people to be non-cooperative together so that a few don't have to suffer the consequences?

[-] 3 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

These ideas are well proven. If all student loans were boycotted, the industry would be shut down in days. During the Montgomery bus boycott of 1956, cooperation flourished because of the ingenuity of a few who educated the many in a simple but powerful tactic. Successfully ending segregation on buses was the fuse that ignited later actions that resulted in great advances in civil rights, not just for blacks, but many other groups.

Martin Luther King didn't have to convince blacks that they were being discriminated against, but in Occupy's case, we have an extra hurdle to overcome. Most people in the U.S. falsely believe that our government acts in our best interest, all of our wars are just, most of us are middle class, and the rich deserve all the wealth they've acquired. Occupy has presented the true facts before the American people, but they refuse to believe the truth that the government and corporations have been in collusion for decades.

So how do we scale this extra hurdle? If we choose a specific target, one that is already universally considered corrupt, we avoid that first hurdle and by aggressive education in the proven tactic of non cooperation, it's success would encourage others to listen to our message and take part in the larger and more important action against the lifeblood of all corruption, money.

So back to your pivotal question, how do we get them to do this? Study success. Learn how the civil rights movement was able to steer it's members on the narrow path of non violent action aimed at a specific goal. Or what was Gandhi's secret in his struggle to end British rule in India. How did they convince millions of people to disregard violence and choose cooperation against tyranny instead?

We need to do a little digging and apply similar principles MLK and Gandhi used to our struggle.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

MLK was assassinated by the oligarchy.

There is a fear-factor that is building day-by-day.

Arrest without warrant. Indefinite detention on suspicion. Torture used to gain admission of guilt. Fascism has found a home in the land of the free.

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

How about Australia? What's your level of fascism relative to the U.S.?

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Our govt lapdogs yours.

They only ask "how high" when told to jump.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21336) 1 year ago

Sounds like the U.S.

My local U.S. Post Office now has $10 per hour temps at the counter. What's up with that?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34876) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Temps are the current - favorite - attack against full time employment and full time benefits.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21336) 1 year ago

American workers need to stand up for their rights.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34876) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

YEP - that is why Unions are under such heavy attack - to keep workers down. That is why if you are gonna have temp workers - that they - should receive a living per hour wage as minimum. So if they have to work two jobs to get 40 hours ( normal full time rating ) they would be getting enough to live on - not ( NOT ) subsist on - LIVE ON .

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21336) 1 year ago

Why are we, as a nation, attacking jobs that provide decent livings for people where people can actually raise a family, not with excess, but decently? Why would we attack postal jobs? This is not a good sign.

A society that doesn't care if people can survive without going into debt is morally bankrupt.

And, this applies to Iraq and countries all over the world. Wealth needs to be redistributed everywhere to alleviate pain and suffering.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34876) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yep - it is as obvious as breathing is necessary to live.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17952) 1 year ago

If I told you the truth I would be called names and downvoted.

So I guess can't tell you.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21336) 1 year ago

I am just mind-boggled by the fact that the American people don't support the Postal workers. I use UPS in business all the time, and FedEx and they're no better. In fact, you can hardly get answers out of them. And, they charge a fortune! The UPS guy is the most bedraggled over-worked guy around. How is that better than the Post Office? I just don't get it.

And, what Americans don't realize is that once institutions like the Post Office are taken down, and workers like postal workers are earning $10 an hour, they should check their own wages. Down, down, down. Public wages drive private wages. They are the basis point. And, so are their benefits. Cut teacher and police officer benefits and watch your own benefits go down, down, down.

How did we become such a bunch of fools?

[-] 2 points by shooz (17952) 1 year ago

The "people" that own and operate our "media", have yet to report the truth on the subject, although they do pass on all of the lies.

What is happening is called union busting and you know we are supposed HATE unions.

Just say thank you Ronald Reagan.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13639) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

. . . chicken . . .

[-] 1 points by shooz (17952) 1 year ago


(R)epelican'ts done it!!!!

There. I said it........again.

Now the libe(R)tarians around here will be all over me. It gets old ya know.

Reagan started the anti-postal union shit years ago.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13639) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

it does get old, repelicans attempting to dismantle and privatize our entire culture and civilization . . . .

I hate the fukers

[-] 1 points by shooz (17952) 1 year ago

I get insulted and down voted all the time for posting what they are doing in Michigan.

I guess it's because those that do, are in States that are already owned by the Kochs, so they think they all should be.

Everyone should be dragged as low as they are, seems to be their desire.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13639) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago
[-] 2 points by shooz (17952) 1 year ago

Oh my.

Yer gonna be on someones shit list now.......................:)

Welcome to the club.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13639) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

What? you think that somehow that is new?

fuk the Koch suckers!

[-] 1 points by shooz (17952) 1 year ago

But wait!!!!!

There's more. Those fabulous furry Koch brothers aren't finished yet.

I'll be starting a thread on the latest, very soon, although it will likely be buried under piles of bullshit.posts.


[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13639) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

this is just the kinda shit that shows their true colors . . . . one cannot defend such Machiavellian scum . . . these tea party organizers who are as far removed from grass roots as their penthouse of concrete and steel will permit . . .

No genuine OWS supporter is going to come out in their corner - that's just absurd . . .

whiners fail

[-] 1 points by shooz (17952) 1 year ago

I'm sure they'll think of something to minimize the affects of this too.

Just like did for ALEC.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34876) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago


[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17440) 1 year ago

Well, that's disgusting.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

pardon a stupid question - I should know the answer.
Who owns the Iraqi oil?
How does the oil money get to help the Iraqi people?

or does the money "feed" the Muslim Brotherhood's quest for dictatorship?

[-] 1 points by shooz (17952) 1 year ago

According to the esteemed Guardian, Iraq should be an oil paradise by now.

Completely transparent. Except they don't want to pay workers, or was that the drilling corporations?


[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34876) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Or just feed another dictatorship.

[-] 1 points by jorae28 (8) 1 year ago

Look up the 2007 Iraq Oil law. The legislation started when the U.S.-backed Iraqi cabinet approved a new oil law that was set to give foreign companies the long-term contracts and the safe legal framework they have been waiting for....in other words 'privatization to Oil Companies...Privitatization is the same as Capitalism...Money goes to one person.... The law rattled labor unions..

Democratic Congressmen Call on Bush to Halt, Reverse Iraq Oil Deals...2008...but I can't find if it was reversed or not...But the Capitalist certainly had their hands in their Oil laws back then, and I would assume by your post, they still do.

Now is the cabinet still US backed that was so convenient for Bush to do after the invasion? I don't know...

[-] 1 points by shooz (17952) 1 year ago


They like that no union stuff. I guess they are the WallMart of oil now.

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

The global takeover continues.


[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

"Saddam’s ban on public-sector unions was the sole Saddam-era dictate kept in place under the U.S. occupation,"

Figures, we emasculated fed unions when we absorbed them into Homeland security. And now we are trying to destroy postal workers union as well.

Same people,same anti labor elements are attacking unions worldwide.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17952) 1 year ago

Yes, they are. We the people pay them to do it too.

Sometimes they even cut a bit out of their slush funds to boost our IRAs a bit and keep us placated.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

I suppose but their go to placation is sports/reality tv, and barely enough well advertized cheap but unhealthy fast food. (bread & circuses man!)

[-] 1 points by shooz (17952) 1 year ago

Hush now.

You know you're not supposed to mention that it's Ayn Randians doing the deed.

That would be like telling the truth and our local libe(R)tarians HATE that sort of thing.

After all, as OTP likes to point out Ayn is dead.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

LOL. True dat. And they've paricularly obnoxious lately.

but I can't pretend. I MUST speak the truth, God help me.

Come hell or high water, regardless of the opposition, "as God is my witness I will never go hungry again!"

Sorry, Let me stop. Just playin'.

[-] -3 points by syzygy (-3) 1 year ago

the USPS has been losing money for years, if it were a private company it would have gone out business.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Repubs passed destructive Postal pension requirements in the dead of night right before they lost control of the Senate & House in 2006 designed to put the USPS in arrears & destroy the union.


Read it and weep.