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Forum Post: Of Sears, Detroit and Libe(R)tarianism

Posted 1 year ago on July 22, 2013, 12:15 p.m. EST by shoozTroll (17632)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

First up Sears.

Where libe(R)topia goes to die.

http://www.alternet.org/economy/ayn-rand-sears-and-eddie-lampert

Next up, Detroit.

Where libe(R)topian destruction can be seen in it's raw form.

Meanwhile, this week also brought news that the City of Detroit tried to file for bankruptcy under the direction of its state-appointed, anti-democratic “emergency manager,” only to be rebuffed by a judge’s ruling. How does Detroit’s situation relate to Sears’s sad demise? Both are facing the specter of Randian objectivism, free market fanaticism, dehumanization of ordinary people, and an abdication of corporate responsibility. As the workers at Sears have been forced into cutthroat competition, so too, have Detroit’s residents been asked to compete over insufficient and scant resources.

http://www.politicususa.com/2013/07/21/detroit-sinks-deeper-hell-faces-wing-utopian-fantasies.html

Who needs Democracy, when tyranny works so much better for libe(R)topia?

64 Comments

64 Comments


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[-] 6 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

''Detroit is a devastatingly poor, mostly black, increasingly abandoned island in the midst of a sea of comparative affluence that’s mostly white. Its suburbs are among the richest in the nation. Oakland County, for example, is the fourth wealthiest county in the United States, of counties with a million or more residents. Greater Detroit — which includes the suburbs — is among the nation’s top five financial centers, the top four centers of high-technology employment, and the second-biggest source of engineering and architectural talent. Not everyone is wealthy, to be sure, but the median household in the region earns close to $50,000 a year, and unemployment is no higher than the nation’s average. The median household in Birmingham, Michigan, just across the border that delineates the city of Detroit, earned more than $94,000 last year; in nearby Bloomfield Hills — still within the Detroit metropolitan area — the median was more than $150,000.

''The median household income within the city of Detroit is around $26,000, and unemployment is staggeringly high. One out of 3 residents is in poverty; more than half of all children in the city are impoverished. Between 2000 and 2010, Detroit lost a quarter of its population as the middle-class and whites fled to the suburbs. That left it with depressed property values, abandoned neighborhoods, empty buildings, lousy schools, high crime, and a dramatically-shrinking tax base. More than half of its parks have closed in the last five years. Forty percent of its streetlights don’t work.

''In other words, much in modern America depends on where you draw boundaries, and who’s inside and who’s outside. Who is included in the social contract? If “Detroit" is defined as the larger metropolitan area that includes its suburbs, “Detroit" has enough money to provide all its residents with adequate if not good public services, without falling into bankruptcy. Politically, it would come down to a question of whether the more affluent areas of this “Detroit" were willing to subsidize the poor inner-city through their tax dollars, and help it rebound. That’s an awkward question that the more affluent areas would probably rather not have to face.

''In drawing the relevant boundary to include just the poor inner city, and requiring those within that boundary to take care of their compounded problems by themselves, the whiter and more affluent suburbs are off the hook. “Their" city isn’t in trouble. It’s that other one — called “Detroit." It’s roughly analogous to a Wall Street bank drawing a boundary around its bad assets, selling them off at a fire-sale price, and writing off the loss. Only here we’re dealing with human beings rather than financial capital. And the upcoming fire sale will likely result in even worse municipal services, lousier schools, and more crime for those left behind in the city of Detroit. In an era of widening inequality, this is how wealthier Americans are quietly writing off the poor.'' Excerpted from :

e tenebris ...

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23972) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

It's been happening for years in private industry:

A steel company goes bankrupt, its workers lose their pensions, but yet someone still happens to purchase the company's assets and keeps making steel. Or a coal mining company splits into two entities, and one half takes responsibility for all pensions, and then that half deviously declares bankruptcy while the other increases its profits. The attack on the workers' earned benefits continues.

But the declaration by the pro-corporate "emergency manager" appointed to run Detroit is the most brazen attempt yet to cheat hardworking American workers out of their pensions.

If Michigan's pro-corporate governor and unelected manager succeed, pro-corporate officials in towns and cities throughout the country are much more likely to try something similar. All eyes are on Detroit.

Hardworking Americans deserve a secure retirement, but what happens in Detroit could spell the end of pensions throughout the country. Sign Progressives United's petition now to show you stand with Detroit workers.

Detroit used to be an important symbol of the prosperity hardworking Americans could achieve, but everyone knows the story of its decline. As good-paying manufacturing jobs went overseas, more of the nation's wealth made its way into the hands of financial services titans, and the rest of us lost.

But one of the other great symbols of prosperity from that time was the defined benefit pension plan. Unlike 401(k) plans, which put a worker's retirement at the mercy of the market and fuel fat management fees for Wall Street, defined benefit plans guarantee a steady income in retirement.

At least, until some board members or a group of wealthy taxpayers decides they would rather have that money for themselves.

But Detroit's firefighters, police, teachers, nurses, and others agreed to long hours, weekend work, and even lower wages in exchange for the promise of a guaranteed retirement. And they held up their end of the deal.

We can't let global financial interests destroy hardworking Americans' pensions, and the dominoes could start falling after Detroit's bankruptcy. Progressives must stand with workers there.

This is about all hardworking Americans. What happens in Detroit could happen next where you live. Sign our petition to stand with Detroit workers today.

Make no mistake: Detroit has its problems. But behind this bankruptcy is the problem wealthy corporate fat cats have with compensating workers fairly. We need to take action.

Thanks for uniting as a progressive,

Josh Orton Political Director Progressives United

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Not to mention, Orr has once again brought Christies in to "tour" our tri-county art museum.

In libe(R)topia....NOTHING is as sacred as a BIG banks profits.

PS: signed..........................:)

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (23972) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

signed..........................:)

Thought ya might. {:-])

Check this out:

join Daily Kos and The Other 98% in supporting the fast food workers fighting for better wages and working conditions. Click here to send your message of solidarity.

For too long, fast food workers have lived on poverty wages and poor conditions—but now these nonunion workers are starting to fight back.

In New York City last month, McDonald’s workers walked out after one of their co-workers collapsed from heat exhaustion in a kitchen that lacked air conditioning. Last week, fast food workers in seven cities walked out to demand a $15 / hour living wage.

It was the largest walkout of fast food workers in history, and it’s only the beginning of an exciting and dynamic new movement in this country.

Join Daily Kos and The Other 98% by telling these brave fast food workers that you stand in solidarity with them.

Keep fighting, Paul Hogarth, Daily Kos

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Indeed, research has shown that it would add 20 to 40 cents to the cost of a burger, and that's without "shared sacrifice" from those that kept those wages so low, for so long.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (23972) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

But those a-holes "should" contribute to the cause of a living wage for all of those employees that made em wealthy.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Yeah, well, you know that's not gonna happen.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23972) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

As the saying goes : Nothing is impossible - no matter how improbable.

That being said - I do believe that you are correct.

They would still be wealthy - but they would scream as though they were being skinned alive.

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

At the risk of going all ZD on their asses.

Perhaps we should?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (23972) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Perhaps we should?

Nah their karma is f'd up - not mine - no telling how others feel about it though - Hey? {:-])

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[-] 0 points by TorRox (-2) 1 year ago

Let me try this one here, since its been banned on the other thread:

I sample all news sources and nothing scares me away just because it's different.

Don't feel bad shooz. Lots of Americans are like you and only want to hear the news that supports their viewpoint, and if they don't like it, they just dismiss it as the other side's propaganda

Face it, you are just like the average Fox news viewer.

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Bullshit.

Not in the least.

Libe(R)tarians have done these things and they still are doing it.

Not a word in the press.

It's not like you had a word to say about the issue.

so stuff it.

Read the links and comment. OR.......Shut the fuck up.

[-] 3 points by Narley (295) 1 year ago

Detroit is toast. It's not coming back. That's just the way it is Shooz.

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

It only appears to be gone from your limited point of view.

It's quite narrow and not a little confused.

[-] 1 points by Narley (295) 1 year ago

Good time to be a retired Detroit city worker, Huh? Aw come on, do you really think Detroit real estate is going up in value? How many people are moving to Detroit lately. The answer to those questions may give you a clue about the future of Detroit.

[-] 2 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

Detroit had a musical identity 2nd only to New Orleans. Never underestimate the power of music. Detroit will come back, minus the manufacturing.

[-] 1 points by Narley (295) 1 year ago

Sincerely not trying to be sarcastic, but when's the last time you were in NOL? Suggesting that Nawlins is better off than Detroit isn't saying a lot. Don't misunderstand, I like New Orleans. I have friends there and visit a few times a year. But it's not the music center people advertise it to be.

[-] 2 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

Not what I heard. I heard jazz is everywhere there. Real jazz, not the NYC college jazz. I have neighbors who came up north after Katrina and they're always blasting music. That's a good thing.

[-] 0 points by TikiJ (-38) 1 year ago

It's not but its still pretty damn cool. My brother lives there now.

I like to party too much to live there, I wouldnt last long :)

[-] 0 points by TikiJ (-38) 1 year ago

There's a show called Young Broke and Beautiful, and one of the cities he went to was Detroit. It looked like a pretty awesome city.

http://www.ifc.com/shows/young-broke-beautiful/episodes/season-1/detroit

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

Looks interesting.

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

http://www.politicususa.com/2013/07/24/detroits-deep-discount-dollar-days.html

I won't be expecting any cogent comments.

In the common nomenclature, you would be know as a "give a shit".

As in......you don't.....about anything of importance.

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[-] 0 points by PortugueseExplorer (10) 1 year ago

One of the most significant differences is that while bankruptcy may save those like Sears, there is nothing that can save Detroit. And if it were not for Wall Street, New York would be in a very similar state.

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

700,000 people tossed on your trash heap??

Reversing what was done to Detroit, would go a long way towards "saving" it.

Tossing Snyder in jail would help too. He's ignoring a judges order to continue his Koch brothers/ALEC/teabagge(R) agenda.

A tyrant, ignored by the press. A tyrant propped up by the Koch's.

[-] -2 points by gameon (-51) 1 year ago

the population of detroit is about80% black.nearly. half of those people are functional illiterates. why cant they read and write? bankruptcy is the best solution for detroit.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Why are you making stuff up??

How many nameplates are you using around here?

Now if you would provide a link to prove your statement, perhaps I could converse with another of your puppets?

[-] 1 points by gameon (-51) 1 year ago

quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/26/2622000html. no need to make it up , its all fact. do your own search,..........."what is the racial makeup of detroit."

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Thanks for the broken link........................:)

Thanks for letting me know, that to you, it really is all about race.

Now about those nameplates, you never did say.

[-] -1 points by gameon (-51) 1 year ago

you seem to of average intelligence, do search, i gave you the phrase. Go to whichever search engine you use and type in " what is the racial makeup of Detroit",............ among many , you will get the one entitled " quickfacts. census................" It's about facts,.........all the facts about the entire popuplation of Detroit, all the different races. By "nameplates" do you mean screen names?

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

http://www.eclectablog.com/2013/07/federal-judge-will-decide-fate-of-detroits-bankruptcy-filing-on-wednesday-more-emergency-manager-news.html

Because NONE of what you've said or posted has anything to do with it.

It's all about race for you. You've rendered that obvious.

Nothing about what's actually happened, nor what is happening now.

So about your nameplates?

How many?

[-] 0 points by gameon (-51) 1 year ago

The only reason it 's about race is because the majority of the inhabitants of detroit are black and for the last 60 yrs, the city has been run ( destroyed ) by dems. i have one screen name.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

It's about race, because YOU made it about race, and you still are..

Please note the title of the thread.

It's about asshole libe(R)tarians

If you have but one name, why did you respond to a post I made for someone else, while pretending to be that someone else, and making it all about race?

In truth the libe(R)tarians have deeply racist roots and it has been posted already.

[-] 0 points by gameon (-51) 1 year ago

i have no idea what you're referring to ( responding to another post with another name). dems need a population thats dependent on the govt so that population can be controlled by the govt.

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Got a link to prove that?

Or was it something you picked up from Limbaugh?

[-] -2 points by Listen2TheBanned (-4) 1 year ago

Is it this same judge?

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/56661

Mich. Judge: Detroit bankruptcy unconstitutional - doesn’t ‘honor’ Obama

"The Obama reelection campaign informed the world that a hypothetical President Romney would have “let Detroit go bankrupt.” Now that Obama’s back in office, it would be pretty embarrassing to let the city file for Chapter 9 protection."

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

WTF was that???

Why are posting a link to the closest thing Canada has to FLAKESnews, and pretending it has any connection to reality?

ALEC want's it done.

You should have at least responded to what was said in the link I provided.

Are you always this reality free?

Never mind, you're just zilla reborn as a lie.

A libe(R)topia supporter.

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/17724-boehner-brags-about-turning-american-into-detroit

A Boehner lover.

How many puppets do employ these days?

What are their names?

Keep in mind that a puppet is a lie.

Lies are not dissent.

They are just lies.

If you use puppets, that makes you a liar.

Know this.

[-] -1 points by Listen2TheBanned (-4) 1 year ago

Where's the quote of him bragging? Or is that headline a lie? You do know that Detroit has had DEMOCRATIC mayors since 1962, don't you? Or is that a lie?

btw, criticizing a link for bias, then posting a link to truth-out? LOVE IT!

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

You would have had to read it, and understand it. Not likely with a puppet.

A puppet is a lie.

http://www.politicususa.com/2013/07/21/john-boehner-claims-american-people-congress-passes-laws.html

He brags about his ineptitude with his every breath, with every martini.

With every child he kills.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/07/21/this-infographic-proves-that-republican-policies-kill-people/

You should be posting at theblaze, if you don't like truthful sources.

But then a puppet is a lie and has no need of the truth.

[-] -1 points by Listen2TheBanned (-4) 1 year ago

They told me that if i didn't vote for Obama that the WH would let Detroit go bankrupt. Turns out, that wasn't a lie.

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

And this has to do with the destruction wrought by libe(R)tarians in what way?

And what about those puppets?

I can not believe in a lie and puppets are lies.

How long will you pretend that this is your first experience with campaign promises?

If you want to talk about the past, go ahead and start a thread.

Me?

I'm gonna continue to bitch about what assholes libe(R)tarians are, and the destruction they are causing "right" here, "right" now..

You know.

The stuff you refuse to talk about, while looking for distraction.

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[-] -3 points by WSmith (1663) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Why are these America and democracy hating RW scum bags happy and gloating and spiking the ball over the downfall of a great American city? How and why do they feel free to hate on our country? TRAITORS!!

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Hating Detroit has been high on "right wingers" lists for decades now.

Comments on it's current predicament are quite telling, as it's a predicament that was set up by the "right wing" under the Engler administration.

Get ready though. Detroit is not alone, although you wouldn't know it by listening to our local pundits.

It's the libe(R)tarian test case.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/galleries/2013/07/23/13-cities-in-financial-distress.html#e36539bb-a939-44eb-8d21-1aa778b8444c

Funny.........of all the comments so far, the libe(R)tarian connection has been ignored and completely spared from comments, even though it is the main cause.

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[-] -3 points by WSmith (1663) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

It's Milton Friedman RW Shock Doctrine.

2010 Never EVER Again!!

Petulance and Elections DO have consequences!

It's part of the Class War waged by the 1% on the rest of us.

http://www.alternet.org/economy/libertarian-developers-ayn-rand-fantasy-detroits-latest-nightmare

http://blogs.detroitnews.com/politics/2013/06/21/privatize-detroit/

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Fucking over the young and the old is always their first move.

Selling off everything ( that seems) possible, is always on the list.

Pontiac has had it's EM tyrant for a while now.

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2013/07/25/news/local_news/doc51f0457349072354404055.txt

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2013/07/25/news/local_news/doc51f0457349072354404055.txt

[-] -2 points by WSmith (1663) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Redistribution of wealth, weakening the public sector, sabotaging the country, one district, city and state at a time.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

It's the ALEC way.

http://www.nationofchange.org/united-states-alec-privatizing-america-one-statehouse-time-1371908974

I've been saying it for a while, but some people just can't seem to accept the simple truth.

ALEC destroying Democracy, one State at time.

Until they own the whole country.

Libe(R)topia.

[-] -3 points by WSmith (1663) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Yes.

ALEC (a legislative tool) and Shock Doctrine (a tyrannical strategy) are major [parts] of the Class War waged by the 1%, fought by RepubliCon and Corporate mercenaries, against a mostly oblivious 99%. Unemployment, foreclosures, Voter suppression, weapon proliferation, the sequester, etc., are some of the other parts.

Let's wake them up, November 2014 is coming fast, and we can't afford a repeat of 2010. So while "they" are working overtime to make that repeat happen, what are we (99%) doing to make sure it doesn't?

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

At least watching for ALEC affiliations.

Pay particular attention in your State Houses and courts..

[-] -1 points by melsdrivein (-10) 1 year ago

California...the great liberal experiment is next on the bankruptcy bandwagon. I we could build a 20 foot wall, around all the Red states, in two years liberals would be tunneling under to get in...after their states collapsed in debt.

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[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

What an utterly idiotic, shallow and unfounded comment.

I'm sure our local pretenders won't have a word of discouragement for you, so I'll just ask you to leave.

Please, as you have no truth to offer.

[-] -1 points by WSmith (1663) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Detroit guards hen house with coyote pack: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-july-22-2013/chapter-9-mile

25 Facts About The Fall Of Detroit That Will Leave You Shaking Your Head: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-21/25-facts-about-fall-detroit-will-leave-you-shaking-your-head

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[+] -4 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

I'm sorry, but I don't accept that crap from "zerohedge", it's a right wing conspiracy site deserving all it's links at Alex Jones.

It offers NO explanation of the multitude of things that brought all of that on.

I doubt even one of it's "authors" has ever even visited Detroit.

It reads like it was compiled by CATO.

[-] -2 points by WSmith (1663) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Sorry, Shooz, with the right's kneejerk blaming of Detroit on Blacks, Dems and Black Obama, the list seemed comprehensive and succinct (albeit insensitive) and from a new young writer. I missed the book sales theme of coming municipal economic rapture. Detroit was gamed and the Bane Capital crowd of corporate raiders and vulture and predator capitalists are licking their chops, while the America and democracy hating RW Cons celebrate another pathological victory over the Public Sector.

Here's some better articles:

http://www.alternet.org/print/economy/america-path-turn-detroit-and-thats-just-how-republicans-are-cool

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/22/opinion/krugman-detroit-the-new-greece.html?_r=0

http://www.salon.com/2013/07/23/dont_buy_the_right_wing_myth_about_detroit/

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

They are busy arranging the sale of anything left of value.

Even though those sales won't put a nick in the prearranged debt.

http://www.freep.com/article/20130724/ENT05/307240153/DIA-detroit-bankruptcy-christie-s

This is what libe(R)tarians do.

[-] -3 points by WSmith (1663) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

They are celebrating their SABOTAGE!!!

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

All while ignoring not one, but 2 Constitutions.

One State and one Federal.

It was planned before Snyder was even elected.

[-] -3 points by WSmith (1663) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Probably.

But Michigan and Detroit, as well as Wisconsin and others, would have been a lot better off if we all turned out for the 2010 midterm elections. The damage was done, and the damage will continue, but it could get much MUCH worse if we repeat 2010 in 2014!!

DEFINITELY!!

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

I walk it and talk it, every chance I get.

So far, nobody's punched me........................:)

so far.

[-] -3 points by WSmith (1663) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

I hope you don't.

I get punched less and less, 2014!

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

And that's a good thing........................:)

[-] -1 points by Moonbat (-37) 1 year ago

Have we learned nothing from Andrew Ryan and the folly that was Rapture?

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago
[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Who's we?

It's obvious that you haven't, or you would have made a comment on the content of the post.