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Forum Post: Occupy Labor, Wages, Progressive Taxes, Worker Owned Business, Economic Justice.

Posted 1 year ago on Jan. 22, 2013, 5:48 p.m. EST by inclusionman (7064)
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59 Comments

59 Comments


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[-] 1 points by TheTrollSlayer (347) from Kingsport, TN 1 year ago

What i would like to know is how we can bring all these groups and others together

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

I suppose we must continue pushing them. educating, informing all people. Find companies where workers can benefit from ownership. We should also look for politicians who support these efforts. There are none within the 2 parties that I know of. I suppose 3rd party politicians may support these items. Do you?

[-] 1 points by gsw (2727) 1 year ago

Get a foot in the door, execise your political power, focus the conversation, and unite behind all the good ideas. Get some good spokespeople. These are achievable. Get the people to believe they are worthy of enjoying middle class security, by virtue of their work, and the realization a big middle class helps the country. Call your legislators and ask for living wage.

For we, the people, understand that our country cannot succeed when a shrinking few do very well and a growing many barely make it.  (Applause.)  We believe that America’s prosperity must rest upon the broad shoulders of a rising middle class.  We know that America thrives when every person can find independence and pride in their work; when the wages of honest labor liberate families from the brink of hardship.  We are true to our creed when a little girl born into the bleakest poverty knows that she has the same chance to succeed as anybody else, because she is an American; she is free, and she is equal, not just in the eyes of God but also in our own.  (Applause.)   Obama 1-21-2013

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/01/21/inaugural-address-president-barack-obama

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_bill_of_rights

We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.”[3] People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made. In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed. Among these are: The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation; The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation; The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living; The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad; The right of every family to a decent home; The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health; The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment; The right to a good education. All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being. America's own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens. For unless there is security here at home there cannot be lasting peace in the world.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

The Swiss have the right idea. Cut pay for execs! That would allow for higher (living) wages for the rest of us.

http://news.yahoo.com/swiss-voters-approve-tough-limits-142839291.html

[-] 2 points by gsw (2727) 1 year ago

You're right! ! We should follow their lead, here, everywhere.

Voters there can vote for binding resolutions. Nice.

Looks like a plug for direct democracy.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 12 months ago

Slow growth is beginning to change the economy.

http://www.nationofchange.org/housing-health-care-7-co-ops-are-changing-our-economy-1366901440

Spreading the news can increase coop use/membership.

Worth a tweet?

[-] 1 points by gsw (2727) 12 months ago

Thank you for more good ideas for us to practice, Inclusionman.

Glad to see Washington isrepresented.

Come to WA, we're green & progressive.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 12 months ago

No thx required.

My pleasure. Never been to Wa but I know they have lotsa forward thinking people.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Fighting for worker rights.

https://secure2.convio.net/npwf/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=886 Please sign

Petitioning (during election year) has moved Mayoral candidate Speaker Quinn)

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/03/quinn-folds-agrees-to-paid-sick-leave-in-nyc.html

Shameless bump of this important issue.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Will people get fired if we increase the minimum wage?

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/02/14/1594181/no-firing-minimum-wage-raise/

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

An increased minimum wage would stimulate the economy

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

if i can get a job

[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Me too.

[-] 0 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

No doubt. We need it. $9 ain't enough but I'll take it, and agitate for more!!

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

be glad you have a job at all

this isn't democracy

[-] 0 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

I ain't had a job in years.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

I was a dish washer last

that turned out to be a dead end with predatory management

.

at least, I actually worked ad opposed to being a number pusher

[-] 0 points by TimetoStop (-55) 1 year ago

I own a small business. Most employers are small business. Why do you want to fuck with us? You really think we are your hated corporations?

[-] 3 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

You really think we are your hated corporations? ....

no... do you ?.... if you are small business ... why do you think you are not part of the 99% ?

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Worker owned business, Democracy at work

http://www.democracyatwork.info/

FYI

[-] -2 points by TimetoStop (-55) 1 year ago

The hatred for business by all these Reds here puts all businesses in in the 1%.

[-] 3 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

u're a dumb ass... most of us are REAL business owners .. not troll business owners ...

[-] -2 points by TimetoStop (-55) 1 year ago

"Most of us?" Really? Get bent you fucking liar!

[-] 1 points by shooz (26733) 1 year ago

Reds??

The (R)epelican'ts are the RED States.

(R)epelican'ts have been fucking with small business around here for a while now.

They much prefer the pyramid schemes. They get their advice from DeVos, the head of Amway.

Sheeesh what a bunch a crap they deal..

[-] -2 points by TimetoStop (-55) 1 year ago

So you godlike democrats are the friend of small business? Really?

[-] 2 points by shooz (26733) 1 year ago

All I know is small business has been running from Wisconsin and MIchigan since the teabagge(R)s have enforced their tyranny.

The UAW may save Michigan if car sales take off, but it won't have a thing to do with the (R)epelican't economy killers.

It's what they do.

[-] -2 points by TimetoStop (-55) 1 year ago

Yes. Apparently that is all you know. Please go to your DNC masters and tell them they need to re-tool their propaganda. They are starting to get out of touch with reality.

[-] 3 points by shooz (26733) 1 year ago

That is the reality.

Have you been drinking that RupertRush juice again?

A good friend of mine, a small business owner, began losing money "right" after the "wrong" (right) wing took over.

They made him remove a cigarette rolling machine that was just fine when the Dems ran things.

Plus those fucking lying ass teabagge(R)s raised my taxes first thing.

Fucking chickenshit liars!!

You wouldn't be one of those would you?

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

March for higher wages in fastfood

http://www.eventbrite.com/event/5754439684/efbevent

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9727) 1 year ago

Three words - national health care. This alone would take a huge burden off small business, enabling them to both profit more and pay workers higher wages. Who stands in inflexible opposition to national health care . . . the Republican party, of course! . . . and yes, a number of Democrats oppose it as well, who we need to vote out.

That one issue, the cost of health care, is ruining the competitiveness of small business in America; it is THE central issue, and the Republicans hate the idea!

Now you tell me who is the party of small business???

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 12 months ago

Labor must embrace worker owned businesses.

http://inthesetimes.com/article/14872/can_co_ops_save_unions/

FYI

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

I never said you are "hated corporations" Nor do I want to "fuck you".

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Decentralize and give the power back to the people.

Its the only way out.

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Perhaps. My concern is the "states rights" extremists whose desire for decentralization is simply a mask to hide the underlying desire to exclude specific groups of Americans from governmental service. I would submit the corrupt politicians are among the national and local level. I read just recently where Va, Pa, were in the midst of dishonest redistricting to exclude the other party, with plans to do the same in Oh, and Mi. So I don't think decentralization is any guarantee. I di support giving power back to the people though (since it's been stolen by the corp 1%)

[-] 4 points by GirlFriday (21783) 1 year ago

My concern is the "states rights" extremists whose desire for decentralization is simply a mask to hide the underlying desire to exclude specific groups of Americans from governmental service.

Amen.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

I'm sure I am overly suspicious of "decentralization" just as I am suspicious of the current corp owned duopoly. I suggest the solution is money out of politics. Bensdad is working on this through Occupy, I've seen others push movetoamend.org. So I think that would go the longest way to improve the responsiveness of government to the needs of the 99%. National, local, central, decentralized, don't matter as much to me as getting money out of politics.

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

I think your concern is valid. It all comes down to the people, are they willing to actually self govern. If they are, as occupy showed, then decentralized is great.

If they want to do more of the same, then centralize the power, or decentralize it, it doesnt really matter.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Higher wages will resolve the great recession and the historic wage stagnation.

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=9774#.UTQPwVdXqJq

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Wages have become low due to certain reasons. Simply raising them via some task force study does nothing to prevent it in the future. There is only so much time in a week, perhaps it should be used to address the root causes and not the symptoms?

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

That's a good reason not to help the decent hard working Americans struggling with low wages.

But.....

I'm afraid we are gonna have to address the most acute immediate,short term problem of low wages (increase min wage, add auto increases, fight for living wage) while working to minimize/correct the root causes.

http://bostonherald.com/business/business_markets/2013/02/minimum_wage_bump_would_help_234g_bay_state_workers

What do you suggest we do to correct the root causes.?

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

The entire system has been taken over by the banking syndicate. Im not saying that raising minimum wage wont help someone, but you are forgetting what I just said- there is only so much time in the week, month and year- it needs to be allocated appropriately.

Congress focusing on the low lying fruit while the tree is being uprooted is what has gotten us into this mess. Focus on the roots.

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

That's a great analogy and a good argument to not focus on helping decent hard working Americans with the minimum wage increase (that would be your low fruit???)

I agree we should focus on the root cause (that would be your uprooted tree?)

I disagree that it must be one or the other. I reject the suggestion that we can't address min wage increase (low fruit?) while also addressing long term causes (uprooted tree?)

What do you suggest we do to correct the root causes.? (2nd time I've asked. Are you interested in dealing with the causes, or just in using the causes to oppose action to raise the min wage?)

[-] 3 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

If you dont know the several platforms we have talked about to address this, then please go back to previous posts. Im not writing entire posts all over again.

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Oh sure. I understand. It's not so important that you should state a one line description (never asked for entire post rewrite) of what you think the root cause is.

We're only talking about tens of millions of decent hard working (and unemployed) fellow citizens who would benefit from our efforts (short & long term).

Perhaps a one line (or link to the alleged post you referred to) regarding the root cause and the strategy to correct it might not be too much for you.

i assure you the people who might read this will benefit from your thoughtful ideas.

And our fellow citizens are worth at least one line or a link ain't they?

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Move Fed to Treasury, or eliminate it all together, make positions democractically elected, SEC should be a democratically elected body, allow banks to fail, stop the bailouts, break them up, rework tax system to stop robbing people...etc etc...MTA...etc etc... server only holds so many posts, couldnt find it searching OTP or HCHC so Im not sure what to say about that. I guess Ill have to create another one.

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Oh well I guess it's enough just to state, analogize, offer reasons NOT to raise min wage (Low fruit) that will have to be enough.

Your work is done.

BTW, the suggestions you mentioned were not really bad.

how should we go about making that happen.? What actions would you suggest to create that change.?

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

And Ive said before- go ahead and raise it. It will feel good to those who get the benefits- you arent one of em- for a minute, but its not going to address the roots. Its more reactionary tail chasing, while the carrot stick is getting even longer.

The only people who pay that low are multinationals. No decent human pays another less than 10, thats my stance. Take away all their tax,trade and lobbying benefits and they will destroy themselves.

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Millions of decent hard working American adults depend on the minimum wage to support their families.

Your maligning of the efforts to help our fellow citizens is offensive.

I agree with you, we MUST work to resolve the root cause, but you continue your transparent effort to put down, and denigrate this important part of the good fight to help the 99%.

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Well, a broad based movement in the streets to educate the public of all political persuasions, and made of a wide array of political persuasions, all addressing the corruption would be a nice start :)

Perhaps our short term attention span needs to be addressed? While that ground swell was the most impressive, potentially in 40 years here, the shortness of the bell curve is quite disturbing.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

We ARE doing just that. The TV age ADHD population has begun to wake up. We ARE continueing the good fight of educating all. We must ratchet it up. Many actions are being planned for the spring. What are you planning in Tampa?

So that is happening. Not fast enough for me. (and probably not you) but we are doing it. It will take years of hard work.

So since we ARE doing what you suggest we need to for the uprooting of the tree, would you be willing to focus on and agree that we should fight for increased min wage with auto increases, as well as implementing a living wage.

Might I suggest that the fight for these critical short term goals can serve to continue the education you claim we need.

Whaddyathink?

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

support fastfood workers fighting for higher wages better conditions

http://www.fastfoodforward.org/en/

March with us!!

http://www.eventbrite.com/event/5754439684/efbevent