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Forum Post: Obama and the Privilege of being American

Posted 12 years ago on March 2, 2012, 12:35 a.m. EST by Jflynn1964 (-206)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Last week Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner said that the "most fortunate Americans" should pay more in taxes for the "privilege of being an American." One can debate different ways of balancing the budget. But Mr. Geithner's argument highlights an unfortunate and very destructive instinct that seems to permeate the Obama administration about the respective roles of citizens and their government. His position has three problems: one philosophical, one empirical, and one logical.

Philosophically, the concept that being an American is a "privilege" upends the whole basis on which America was founded. Privileges are things granted to one individual by another, higher-ranking, individual. For example, in my house my children's use of the family car is a privilege. One presumes Mr. Geithner believes that the "privilege" of being an American is granted by the presumably higher-ranking, governing powers that be.

This is an age-old view that our Founding Fathers rejected. First, they argued that the basic rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness (i.e., economic liberty) were natural rights, endowed by our Creator, not by government. Second, the governing powers do not out-rank the citizens. Rather it is the citizens who grant government officials their "just powers." As Jefferson wrote in the Declaration of Independence, governments are instituted among men based on their consent in order to secure the rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The notion that a governing authority grants privileges to those it governs directly contradicts Jefferson's declaration.

But it is this same notion that recently allowed the Health and Human Services Department to order religious institutions to pay for things they find abhorrent. Religious freedom is presumably a "privilege" that can be revoked for some transient and novel public-policy reason.

The Obama Justice Department felt the same about religious institutions being able to give preference in hiring to those who shared their faith, and was unanimously overturned by the Supreme Court last month in the Hosanna-Tabor case.

Last year, the Obama National Labor Relations Board also seemed to believe that it was a privilege for an American company, in this case Boeing, to open a new plant in a right-to work state of its choosing, thus upending even the most rudimentary notion of economic liberty.

And of course the whole idea of ObamaCare is that we must buy a product from a private business that our betters in government have deemed necessary for our well-being.

This philosophical point is fundamental. But even if you accept Mr. Geithner's case that the well-to-do must pay more for their presumed "privilege" of being governed, his story ignores the empirical fact that they already do pay a record share of income taxes, even relative to their share of income. According to the Census Bureau, the share of income received by the top 5% of American households is now 21.5%, up from 21.4% in the 1990s. Their share of income taxes has risen to 59% under President Obama from 52% under President Clinton. This despite the fact that the top tax rate was five points higher in the Clinton years.

If you go further back to the pre-Reagan days, when the top tax rate was 70%, the story becomes even more dramatic. Under the four presidents of that era, the income share of the top 5% was 16.8% and their share of the income tax was 36%. In other words, the share of income received by the top 5% has risen 28% and their share of income taxes has risen 64%.

Stated differently, based on the data provided by the Census Bureau and the Internal Revenue Service, the relative tax burden of the top 5% of American earners compared with the remaining 95% has grown from roughly three-to-one prior to 1980 to almost six-to-one today.

One can always argue that this ratio should be 10-to-1, that the "privilege" of being governed is worth 10 times as much per dollar of income to someone who is rich than to someone who is middle-class. Once we give up our moral compass of government deriving its powers from the people. we must also give up any empirical compass of how much we must surrender to government. When you begin the argument that being a citizen is a "privilege" for which one should pay ever more, you very quickly find yourself on Friedrich Hayek's "Road to Serfdom."

This brings us to the third problem with Mr. Geithner's argument, a fundamental logical inconsistency. If being governed, or over-governed, is a privilege for America's citizens, shouldn't everyone pay for the privilege? Why are more than half of all American workers paying nothing at all in income taxes? And if the issue is the need to "pay more" for our privilege, why should only those making over $250,000 be the ones who pay more? If being an American really is a privilege, then certainly all who are thus privileged should pay something.

Still, the real problem with this whole privilege argument goes back to what the Founding Fathers were thinking. Being an American is a right, not a privilege. The privilege belongs to those who are temporarily allowed to serve this great nation in a decision-making capacity. When they turn this privilege into a right to distribute government largess in ever larger quantities—and in ways, to use Jefferson's phrase, a "wise and frugal government" would not—it is those in government, and not the governed, who bear the responsibility for our budgetary problems.

Mr. Lindsey, a former Federal Reserve governor and assistant to President George W. Bush for economic policy, is president and CEO of the Lindsey Group.

48 Comments

48 Comments


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[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (8708) 12 years ago

Hey, weren't you just arguing the reverse, that Obama is sold out to the ultra rich? Which is it, that he's sold-out, or that he'a promoting "class warefare." You seem to take both sides of the argument. Surprize . . . Snore.

[-] -2 points by Jflynn1964 (-206) 12 years ago

Sorry Donut King, not me. Obama wants to redistribute income.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8708) 12 years ago

You mean he might want to end poverty? Oh, what a communist - I just forgot, all our corporations now actually are communists, in China.

[-] 0 points by Jflynn1964 (-206) 12 years ago

yeah communism really reduced poverty. And how did Johnson's Great Society do? Didn't work.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8708) 12 years ago

It didnt work because the ultra-rich didn't want it to work, and fought against it tooth and nail. They like poverty as a whip for the middle class. Of all people, Richard Nixon, who was a truely bizzare man, had the best solution for poverty; a negative income tax that would bring all Americans up to a reasonable standard of living.

It would be cheaper than the multi-layered bureaucracy we now have, Thay scrutinizes every aspect of poor people's lives, violating their Constitutional rights, and destroying their human dignity.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 12 years ago

Yup, the article clearly shows that the rich got richer. What it doesn't mention is the stagnation of sages for everyone else, and the greater impoverishment of the lower middle class and poor.

The well to do are paying for the privilege of being governed, but the privilege of governing. They write the laws. They exempt themselves from the rules. They push through deregulation that leads to economic collapse. And every ELSE pays for THEM in terms of losing their jobs, homes, health insurance and pensions.

Everything in the rest of this article is pure distortion, warped libertardian ideology and thinly veiled demagoguery. It is spam propaganda from the 1%, pure and simple.

[-] -2 points by SteveKJR (-497) 12 years ago

I disagree with you - my wages never "stagnated" over my working career. As a matter of fact my wages went up way more then inflation and I never had problems paying my bills.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 12 years ago

Its good to know that your personal wages didn't stagnate. You are the exception. But congratulations in fallaciously generalizing from the particular, a talent refined to the level of art by you right wing morons.

[-] -3 points by SteveKJR (-497) 12 years ago

I am not an exception - lots of "hard working" Americans are doing just fine.

If that were not the case we would have 40% unemployment instead of the claimed 8.5% or whatever the government wants you to believe.

[-] 3 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 12 years ago

50% of all Americans are currently living at or near the poverty line. The overwhelming majority of them are hard working. The bottom 3/5ths of hard-working Americans have seen there wages stagnate for the last 20 years. 1% of Americans own 43% of the wealth, and the rest divvy up the remainder. The top 400 people in the country own as much as the bottom 150,000,000 combined.

But so glad to hear things are working out for you. Narcissism has it benefits, doesn't it?

[-] -1 points by SteveKJR (-497) 12 years ago

I'm tired of listening to the 1% of the americans owning 43% of the wealth. Over my entire working career I never once had a problem with what anyone makes - not my neighbor, not my boss at work and not someone who makes a million dollars.

Why, because I am the "capatin of my fate" and where I am in life is because I worked towards getting there. I wasn't rich at the age of 25 like most people think should be the case.

It takes years to buid wealth. I traveled across the country looking for work and found it. I lived in a tent while working and a camper for 5 years.

I did what I needed to do to survive and didn't complain one bit about it. Never had a cell phone or a telephone during that time. Never had cable television nor sattelite dish.

Had just the basics and made it work. There are lots of jobs out there but the problem is "people don't know how to find them" - and when they do find them they are not satisfied with what they pay or they are in another state.

Well if that's the case then they need to be where they are because they aren't doing what they need to do to get out of poverty.

Hard work does not mean anything when it comes to a persons income. Working smart and being smart does.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 12 years ago

You just don' get it, do you? You really don't see that generalizing from the particular is a fallacy.

You are unable to see past your own nose, and mistake that nose for the world. And because you believe your version of the truth is correct (who can deny having a nose, after all?) you are completely incurious about any broader reality that you can't see. It's pure narcissism.

[-] -1 points by SteveKJR (-497) 12 years ago

I'll tell you what - go and ask a person who doesn't have a job why they don't have a job. I'll guarentee you they will give you every kind of excuse to justify why they aren't working.

Opportunity only comes to those who look for it - and sometims it may not be in your backyard, your neighborhood, your city or your state for that matter - but it's out there.

I am not generalizing I am being "rallistic" and that's what it takes to accomplish things.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 12 years ago

There is ONE job available for every FOUR applicants today.

When 50% of the ENTIRE POPULATION is living at or near the poverty line, it is not an indication of stupidity, or excuses, or lack of character: it is an indication of a SYSTEMIC problem.

You are not being "realistic" if you ignore reality.

[-] -1 points by SteveKJR (-497) 12 years ago

What kind of jobs are you talking about. I will guarentee you that if I was laid off tomorrow I would have a job - and a good paying job.

You see, everyone has been "brainwashed" into thinking that you need a college degree. Well the market is "saturated" with "college degreed people"

The trades - welding, hvac, electrical, plumbing etc are always looking for good people

But you see we have a society of wimps who don't want to get their hands dirty. They want to sit in an office and text, facebook, tweet and still get paid a "kings" salary for what they "don't do".

On the other hand a person working in the trades is accountable. If you decide to tweet, facebook or text while you are working you will be fired.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 12 years ago

Again, just genarilising from the particular. Your PERSONAL abilities, connections, ingenuity, whatever bullshit you want to spew is not a reflection of a SYSTEMIC economic problem.

There are is only ONE job in the entire economy for every FOUR applicants. That's any job, any where.

Again, (sigh) when 50% of the people are living at or near the poverty line, it is not an indication of PERSONAL "wimpiness" or distain from getting one's hands dirty. It is not an indication of wanting a "King's salary". It is an indication that something is sick in the ECONOMY as a whole.

You simply are incapable of looking past yourself to see anything larger. Personal "character" does not change the overall results economic systems. 150,000,000 people can't be all be welders or plumbers. And even if they could, there are not enough jobs for all them.

[-] -1 points by SteveKJR (-497) 12 years ago

Well then what did these people do 5 years ago before the collapse? I am sure they did have a job or were they "just starting out".

I am not "spewing bullshit" just facts. How many people do you know who are not working have made any inititive to "change their professions" in order to get a job?

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 12 years ago

What the fuck are you talking about? How is that bizarre mashed peas for brains working?

How many people do I know? You are now asking ME to generalize from the particular?

What a fucking moron.

The gap in incomes - also known as wealth distribution - has been widening for 40 years, since your Saint Reagan! The middle class had been shrinking that entire time.

And you're asking me what people did 5 years ago? THEY WORKED, ASSHOLE! And most are working today. But the fruits of their labor is being distributed to the TOP.

And if you're born poor, good luck. The rate of social/economic mobility in the USA is about the WORST in the entire developed world. Chances are, if you're born poor, you'll stay poor, and if you're born rich, you'll stay that way, too. Now, I'm SURE that you will throw up one or two exceptions - as if they prove anything at all - but the fact remains true for the OVERWHELMING number of people in this country. They are not stupid. They are not lazy. The system itself determines the trends, not individuals.

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 12 years ago

The logic is seriously flawed: pursuit of happiness = economic freedom; American citizenship is a right, not a privelege. If the latter were true then people all over the world could claim American citizenship, since that would be equal to the right to life, liberty, etc.

Obviously, that is not true. American citizenship is conferred either by birth on American soil or naturalization; both are revokable under limited circumstances, just like a driver's license. So, neither is a right.

Finally, most workers who do not pay income taxes, simply do not earn enough money to pay. The wealthy of any reasonably civilized nation, should pay more not only in amount, but in percentage. They can afford it best, and the amount affects their lifestyle the least. Maybe they won't be able to buy that extra Mercedes for the wife, but that's hardly a sacrifice.

[-] -1 points by Jflynn1964 (-206) 12 years ago

It's always jealousy with you folks. "he doesn't need the extra Merceddes" This is really what this is about. You don't have yours and you want to take it from somebody else who does.

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 12 years ago

Once again you project your personal feelings onto others. I only believe that in a land of plenty all should share in the abundance and not just the few, who really toil very little.

You support the concept of a plutocracy only because you have the misguided idea that somehow you'll be climb into that aristocracy. Nothing could be further from the truth.

[-] 0 points by Jflynn1964 (-206) 12 years ago

How am I projecting my personal feelings on to others. In fact, I really don't care. Why should you care how many cars I have?

I don't care what you do and that's the point. I want you to stay out of my business. If I work hard to achieve then I should receive my rewards. You want me to work hard and pay the next guy who does not work hard my rewards. That makes no sense and will disincentivize hard work.

In your world who is going to work?

[-] 0 points by HoarFriday (27) 12 years ago

Ok, all Americans pay 5 dolla for the privilege of being an American.

Run the government on that and no more.

Simple problem, simple solution.

Case closed.

[-] -2 points by nytefury (-57) 12 years ago

Great post,but these num nutz Leftists around here will defame you and defend Tiny Tim and Barry Hussein Soetoro regardless of facts and truth.

[-] 0 points by SteveKJR (-497) 12 years ago

Just like when you try to tell them that Apple is worth 8 billion and have millions in profits. They should be protesting them but don't dare cross that path. Apple is their "love of life"

[-] -2 points by nytefury (-57) 12 years ago

Excellent point,they eviscerate Corporations except for the ones that fit their narrative. You never hear these Leftist Greeniacs talk about protesting the "Green" Corps that are living from taxpayer funding and going out of business while giving their Corp Exec's big boneses. Nooooo,that we don't hear about.

Leftists are hypocrites and liars.

[-] 2 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 12 years ago

And the flip side of your argument makes you a numb nutted, hypocritical liar. So what is your point, numb nuts?

[-] -2 points by nytefury (-57) 12 years ago

What a great reply,not responding to my points (because that would be admitting I'm right and you support Green corruption)but spouting flip side bullshit to obfuscate the conversation.

Nice try,but no Cigar.

[-] 2 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 12 years ago

you don't make good points, you just bombastically state that your side of the political divide is better. And I counter punch your shallow statement with shit talking of my own. To role in the mud with you, at least our elites invest in America, while your elites invest in themselves. Your elites destroy the environment and speculate on our future, while ours don't make a stink about being asked to sacrifice a little more tax revenue to pay for the shattered lives and broken dreams that Americanism is famous for creating.

[-] -3 points by nytefury (-57) 12 years ago

Man,have you got a holier than thou complex. Sorry to break it you but,your side is corrupt,evil and destroying the American economy while neutering our nuclear defense,while tyrannically installing Obamacare,the single most destructive force to Americans liberty and freedom,while trying to enact a cap and tax carbon HELL that will ruin our once prosperous economy . The fact that you have excepted these Obamanations means you are clueless and propagandized beyond all reasoning.

[-] 2 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 12 years ago

Well, the fact that you use the word evil tells who is holier than thou. I don't use bigoted words, like evil. As to a once prosperous economy, what your elites have trickled down on me is nothing close to prosperity. living pay check to pay check just does not have me out there on the streets proselytizing free markets. But, I see those fairy tales about free markets has you out there prostituting yourself. Go espouse your sermon to the gullible and naive, for there is nothing exceptional about the American condition.

[-] -2 points by nytefury (-57) 12 years ago

The operative word on my last post,which you missed was....ONCE.

The word "evil" is "bigoted"? WTF is wrong with you?

[-] 2 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 12 years ago

think hard, retard, and the parallels between bigotry and evil will be made clear. Evil is a word to demonize and ostracize those who you wish to exploit and conquer. Do I need to make it any more clear?

[-] -1 points by nytefury (-57) 12 years ago

I guess if don't you believe in good vs evil and everything is grey as opposed to black and white.

Hitler was evil. Now is that just a bigoted statement in your world?

Look,Jesse you are so far Left and completely out of the loop of everyday people that I will just say,Let's agree to disagree and leave it at that.

[-] 2 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 12 years ago

I have been living in the gray my whole life, so, yes, the world is full of self interested individuals, not evil others. Once I realized this, I was able to function properly in the most grey society I know, the o' USof A. Those that believe in evil, are those that are willing to die for their interpretations. Sucks to be you, especially if your interpretations are wrong, or, in your case, right leaning. And i'll agree that you are so far to the right that your ass sticks out the Fascist end of the circle. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, you right wing hack.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 12 years ago

So says the far right shill.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 12 years ago

WTF is wrong with you?

[-] -2 points by nytefury (-57) 12 years ago

Well I'm not stalking you,so WTF is wrong with you?

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 12 years ago

You seem to have no problem stalking others. WTF is wrong with you?

[-] -1 points by nytefury (-57) 12 years ago

Who am I stalking? I'm having a back and forth with JesseHeffran and you seem to be interjecting yourself like....."look at me,look at me,I'm here,pay attention to me" and I don't mind conversing with you but let it be about a legit topic not bullshit.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 12 years ago

[-] 0 points by nytefury (-14) 0 minutes ago WTF are you talking about? I just joined this forum the other day and all I've gotten is rude,mean spirited replies to my conservative posts. Nobody wants to just have a back and forth without being shitty. ↥like ↧dislike permalink


Liar.

[-] 0 points by nytefury (-57) 12 years ago

Whatever gets you through.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 12 years ago

You don't have any legitimacy. You are all bullshit. You are a troll with 50 other IDs.

I like to remind people of what you are. I like reminding you of what you really are.

[-] -1 points by nytefury (-57) 12 years ago

WTF are you talking about? I just joined this forum the other day and all I've gotten is rude,mean spirited replies to my conservative posts. Nobody wants to just have a back and forth without being shitty.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 12 years ago

So says the troll.

[-] -2 points by nytefury (-57) 12 years ago

Well,that was a real "tell me off post". I'm like so hurt.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 12 years ago

Quit crying. You have 49 other IDs. I'm sure you will live.

[-] -2 points by SteveKJR (-497) 12 years ago

Here is the website where you can send him a direct message - I already have and so should everyone else letting him know that he needs to resign.

Saying it's a Privilege of being an American - what kind of BS is that. We're all Americans and are proud of it. We don't need him to dictate to us about being "privileged Americans". http://www.treasury.gov/connect/Pages/Message-to-the-Secretary.aspx