Forum Post: No one comes to an OWS site to be told they should vote for Obama or Romney
Posted 11 years ago on July 31, 2012, 1:04 p.m. EST by TrevorMnemonic
(5827)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
No one comes to an OWS site to be told they should vote for Obama or Romney.
They can get that propaganda from the corporate media on their television programming.
If you did come here for that reason, here are the sites you meant to go to
I'm getting really sick of the "vote Obama or die" people on this site.
I'm getting really sick of the "vote Romney or die" people as well.
Propagandizing candidates financed by the 1% is not the purpose of the OWS forum
I don't think people come to this site to be told anything. Like most, we only want to tell others. That said, I don't think they come here to be told what they can't tell others either.
You have a site, you let people post anonymously and people post what they want to post. You exclude them and they come back with a new alias and post more of the same. Clearly some would rather control the thoughts of others by means other than persuasion. Good luck with that.
How many converts have you made? Will they both raise their hands?
There used to be a recognized group in the country called the 'Silent Majority'...They were so silent that eventually any discussion about them ended, like they had never existed.
Whether one chooses to believe or not, they are still here. They listen, read, and process the information that is continually being presented. Most don't register with any political party, but they do register to vote.
They watch the news, and news programs, they watch televised Congressional hearings, they read...there are probably many who read these pages.
They are the invisible audience, the ones that should be addressed. They are not impressed with rhetoric, nor slurs slung. They DO hear logic, the DO hear suggestions toward solutions and they act on their own conclusions.
They feel no need to exchange words, to participate in the general melee that occurs on pages such as this...in fact the back biting that goes on in the battles of words distance them greatly.
There is no need to convince, to convert any portion of this audience, this 'Silent Majority'...they are capable, intelligent people who understand far more than they have ever been given credit for.
When the discourse calms and reason prevails in discussions between groups, that's when the impact will be made.
The primary reason they were invoked was so they could be misrepresented as being in support of GOP positions that couldn't be shown to have broad support in other ways.
Sure they are out there and they do get picked up to some extent in the blizzard of polls. What they will do and when they will do it is very unpredictable.
Attempting to speak for them is questionable at best and deceitful at worst.
Doing so without citing evidence....?
Who attempts to speak for them? Not I, I merely point out that there are many who do follow events and come to their own conclusions without engaging in debate themselves. What they will do is their own decision, yet by presenting items for thought in a civil manner may influence their thought process.
"They feel no need to exchange words, to participate in the general melee that occurs on pages such as this." I don't know what they feel or why they choose to remain silent. Many "do follow events" and many don't. How many are there of each, I have no idea. The reason they don't get counted? It could be apathy. Or stupidity or arrogance or many other feelings, judgements, or positions. Maybe they are too wise. I simply don't know. Statistically, I couldn't assume they are really any different than those who speak out.
The Wisdom of Crowds (or something like that) points out that, statistically, on many assessments or judgements, that even though the range of guesses or positions may be wide, the average is often surprisingly accurate.
Or they are simply opting out of the drama, and it's easy to see there is a lot of drama in an election year.
For years I was part of that Silent group. I absorb information, some of it changed my positions, some of it changed the concepts of which, I had become enamored.
I spoke on occasion with others, like myself, who just didn't want to attend the drama, over the past four years I've become more attracted to participating. Perhaps, it's because, now I have more time to do so.
Never doubt that this 'invisible' group/groups are listening,watching, reading. They are aware, what they will do with that awareness remains to be seen.
They may be aware, they may not. It is not a group that people join because they are of like mind. They are people who don't do something from a conscious or unconscious cause. There is absolutely no reason to draw the conclusion that you have drawn other that psychological projection.
"I am this way. I behave the same way, in one respect, as these other people behave, therefore they are behaving that way for the same reason that I am."
They can be behaving that way for completely different reasons than you do. In this case, they might be in a coma and not aware of anything.
Oddly enough, I know several, and each of them know several more. Not everyone is willing or even able to 'jump in', that does not make them unaware.
But you have absolutely NO basis for for making any generalization for them. None what so ever, zero. You know several out of how many? I know several as well, so your generalization is a) more accurate than mine (if I made one)? b) Less accurate? c) Nobody knows.
The correct answer is c) of course.
Nice try, but totally invalid.
Perhaps, but it made you engage...you'd be surprised at some of the things that will make people engage, even when they think they are not interested.
And it made you look like a dunce and there is NO evidence to the contrary.
May I suggest a change of alias, then your vacuous statements may again get others to "engage," which you can claim as a success.
Like having that last word eh? Have a nice life.
Yep, Thanks. Now, back in the box.
I agree.
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no one watches televised congressional hearings
Why thank you for calling me and several other people I know 'no one'. It's nice to know that we have not a little status, but no status as living beings at all.
I'm sure you did not mean it that way, but the statement surely reads such.
Maybe, just maybe if you watched one here and there, you'd find something of interest.
I've waded my way through congressional bills myself
I know it's dry reading, but one can pick up some interesting tidbits.
maddening
I've heard the mandatory PRIVATE health issuance bill is 50,000 pages
Yeah, just try getting that in hard copy. LOL
I basically agree with brightonsage. It seems like there's too much control over what OWS should be about, and I don't trust anyone, or any party who tells me they've got all the answers for curing this nation's ills. If this group has a stated goal to help the world save itself, and they want to rebuild America as a Eutopia? Well, I'm open to the idea. But, I think it's fair for most Americans to be especially distrustful when they start by saying "let the system fall apart, we can do better without it." It's unrealistic, and the 99% clearly aren't going for it.
Thus, my efforts are to unify all people, and I'll personally thwart evil at every turn (including this election-- a vote for Mitt is a vote for the reptilian high council.) Together, today, we have to find a common set of causes under which we can rally the 99%. I would think rejecting people and their differing opinions would be an incredibly stupid thing to do, even if you have all the answers to the world's problems. Given the vast lack of support the American people have for OWS at this point in time, I think you'd do well not to reject all that you disagree with, or try to control the national conversation.
I think some of you guys are misinterpreting his words. He doesn't want to chase anyone away or discourage debate. He's talking about the Obama and Romney shills here and their insistence that we should vote for 'their guy.' Here's my comment from below which ,I think, is Trevor's point:
Originally, according to jart, this site wasn't supposed to be a "discussion and debate" site. It was only supposed to be for organizing and coordinating protest actions. She wanted the "d&d" to be confined to reddit. And although it's become a "d&d" site, there's a difference between talking about issues and solutions, or debating whether we should vote for Romney or Obama. It's the Romney and Obama shills, not the talking about the issues, that bugs us. It is the endorsements that aren't supposed to be here, not the discussions.
Well, I wasn't ready to draw and quarter anyone. No harm, no foul as far as I'm concerned.
Heh heh. Yeah, I didn't think it had reached that point. I just think there's a misunderstanding as to our position about discussing issues and pushing candidates.
We'll save the drawing and quartering for those who really deserve it.
I have an art degree-- a couple of them, actually. Let me know and I'll make it happen. I even have the pencil and paper.
Would you rather draw them after I quarter them, or before? Or maybe both, kind of a 'before and after' thing? ;-)
from anoms
hard to say
people have know me for years
I have appreciated your good work.
I think you will like this one:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/climate-change-deniers-and-third-party-supporters-/
Yep, well said Here is one in trade:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/no-one-comes-to-an-ows-site-to-be-told-that-they-s/#comment-794381
Great Post!
Yea funny.. haha
Agree. This site is about regaining economic and political equality. Not about staying in the same two political prisons (rep and dem) that enabled the inequality to flourish.
The doors have always been wide open, you can walk out any time when you leave the fear behind.
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I can dig it. You've had many good posts.
Voting is awesome. People need to pay attention in the primaries. Every year better options have run. And that includes congress and more. Money in politics has created a dangerous game.
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http://occupywallstreet.net/
That is what this site should have been from day one in my opinion. Given it isn't it has rightly turned into something else- a place where people air their views on a number of issues with no moderation to speak of nor direction given. Given it is what it is folks who honestly believe that a vote one way of the other is important will come here and say their stuff.
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second that motion
but i wrote one months ago
http://occupywallst.org/forum/red-vs-blue/
i havent noticed any of those pro obama or pro romney and ive been here for a year. everyone i know is pro ron paul, and remember i predicted that 5 months ago on a post here that we would hear of voter fraud, now two states have had a mysterious transfer 50% of ron paul votes "mistakenly" transferred over to mitt romney ( in two different states). Funny, how I predicted this, I also believe it is happening on a much grander scale than is truly known publically yet.
here is the articles that have been removed from mainstream news:
http://www.dailypaul.com/239494/fraud-confirmed-in-texas-election-judge-says-votes-were-switched-tonight-drkrbn-live
take a look at this result especially: http://www.co.travis.tx.us/county_clerk/election/20120529/files/20120529reppct.pdf
http://www.dailypaul.com/238404/california-exit-poll-results-the-good-and-the-bad
Thats pretty cool...
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How about a better organization of posts, so that we can better filter the subject matter. This might help the overall educational value of this endeavor. Of course, presenting everything in a big jumble is a great way to mess with the tax man's head, but it makes it hard to really study a subject and learn something. Just a suggestion, nothing more.
edit Perhaps, after a week the posts get "filed", keeping this format, but making the past content easier to access. Just thinking out loud.
actually the #howto looks like a very useful page... My mistake.
sorting by subject would be awesome.
I know sometimes I think bout starting a new set of files
but the work would be much easier if I had administration powers
I would force every new post to choose or create a category
because you missed with wrong pals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTbLslkIR2k&feature=youtu.be
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If politics is banned here, then I will go away. I have no need for useless banter. It's like a guy in a bar complaining about the president, congress, and all the leaders in government. But he doesn't vote and advocates others do the same. I'm for people taking action, Turning words into ACTION. Just talking, complaining, agitating, and doing nothing is highly delusional.
Come Together NOW
That is why I push issues and not party's.
Support good issues and oppose bad issues. Find unity in the issues.
Obama or Romney are hardly politics just names
I have no problems with politics but propaganda is bullshit.
There's a huge difference between the two
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Most of all this site should be open to all who support the progressive solutions necessary to resolve the crises of inequity that the 1% plutocrats have created. Even if they support Romney (hard to believe I know, it's just an example)
In addition, no body here should have the power to decide who belongs here or where they do belong. I believe OWS "embraces all non violent tactics" and "any political persuasion."
Surely your arguments/positions are strong enough to compete in the market place of ideas without seeking to silence or ban differing opinions.
Doesn't coming to consensus require we debate with people of different opinions until an agreement is found.?
My opinion is that our political system is corrupted by money/plutocrats. I support a new form of govt built from the ground up, horizontally, and based on direct democracy. I've encountered many people here who espouse this goal, and who have educated me on details of how it might work.
Unfortunately, most of those proponents spend there time attacking the current system/govt, trying to bully all who disagree into doing what they want. No one here has a clear positive plan to correct the deep systemic problems that exist in out corrupted duopoly. You catch more flies with honey.
Until the proponents of a new system can argue the plan/path to a new govt in a civil manner, with respect and inclusiveness nothing will progress. Certainly better communicators are required. Many current proponents seem less about being FOR a new system as much as they seem AGAINST the current system.
The advice I hear most often from the proponents here is "don't vote", "vote no consent", "vote 3rd party". These suggestion do not move us closer to the new form of govt we need. These are acts against the current system, not for a new system.
We cannot pretend the current system does not exist, and while we consens about the best strategy to create the new system we must attempt to lay the ground work for the new system (money out of politics, election reform) within the new system.
That means electing progressives.
Excellent post VQ, your a light in this darkness. Thanks for shining a light on the truth.
I always find it highly contradictory and delusional that some here advocate leaving politics out of any discussion here. Apolitical ??? In fact, political (look it up please) means---->of or relating to government, or the conduct of government.
SO how does OWS make change when government is the very institution that was supposedly regulating the Casino on Wall Street.
This is just like another deceptive convoluted argument spewed around here that the democrats are just like repugnicans (D=R) AND voting doesn't matter. So why waste your time doing your civic duty as a citizen of this country.
In my educated opinion, anyone saying these things are sabotaging any chance OWS has to make real change. And, following their illogical suggestions aides those who are actively trying suppress voting rights in other ways than convincing people not to vote.
The most powerful thing anyone here can do is VOTE. If this is ignored then those advocating such BS have successfully diminished OWS's power to change anything. It's a very clever tactic since they are simply feeding off of the anger and apathetic attitudes people get when they feel disfranchised and useless to make any change. They want people here to give up and disappear, and yes, don't vote. It doesn't matter. What crap this is. Devoid of Reason.
I have always felt that people who complain of politics, blah, blah, blah, but never vote, are shills for delusional thinking. Critical thinking means nothing to them. Not defined. It's like the blue sky calling itself red. It's a mark of ignorance. And if Ignorance is what powers OWS, it's not happening, going no where fast.
I made a post describing in more detail just how it will play out:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/if-mittney-wins-in-november-ows-will-have-no-power/
Come Together NOW
I submit to you also that those advocating giving up our right to vote know that they are talking to progressives who would lean democratic. So I believe this betrays a real possibility that those people are likely republicans plants who want to minimize progressive votes.
I don't think it is a large number of people here who might be affected but nothing would surprise me from the Kochheads.
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And Forwarding - Circulating ISSUES.
Issues to Support
Issues to Oppose
BTW - Good Comment. {:-])
Every so often I shine.
Thx
twinkle for you
Everyone gets better with experience - that is if they want to and actually keep trying. You started from the right spots ( Heart and Mind ) and you have continued in that same manner - as long as you do - you can only get better.
Again - well done. {:-])
Aww. Shucks.
LOL - {:-])
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You're beating a dead horse, Trevor. We've been saying that for months to no avail.
Hey, they've been brainwashed for decades. These elephants and donkeys aren't dead yet!
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Heh heh. Yeah. But they will be.
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Then give up and go sabotage the GOP sites!! We have a Class War to fight!! And our weapons are VOTES!!!
lol
yeah it is the internet
I'm still holding out hope that after November, if this site's still around, we can start focusing on the important issues. Maybe get mobilized enough to really make a difference in 2016.
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How about focusing on getting out a 90+% Vote like Big $ always does!!! That's why things are fucked up, we don't show, and they always do. The squeaky wheel gets all the grease!!
Yea, I'd agree with that. The problem is that in the change game the vote seems to be the only game in town.
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Although they mean well, they just don't realize they're not really OWS. They have no clue what OWS (originally) stands for.
What they are is a political offshoot of OWS, something that was inevitable. It's actually a good thing, but technically you're right. They don't belong on this particular forum.
It is not a "good thing" when 'they' try to create divisions within, and then try to co-opt this movement into the dem party. This movement is about reaching out and educating the masses....resistance to the corrupt status quo...and organizing. We cannot afford to become spineless by swimming in 'their' cesspool.
it least it's the positive party of hope and progress not the negative party of fear and loathing
it was
empty vague words
now, yes
SO, this means that OWS has NO political views???
Isn't government a type of organization?
If we organize, are we not forming an organization which governs our own thinking and positions?
Do we understand the English language here?
Why do we have dictionaries?
JUST WONDERING..................... : D
Yes I "understand" the English language quite well. Do you 'understand" the 'concept' of being co-opted by the dem party, and hence having this movement become ineffective? Note: No need to bold-face anything.
In My understanding and point of view OWS as an organization/movement has no political views per say as in party politics. People who support the OWS Occupy movements do happen to have many varied views beliefs perspectives. This is what is hard for many to fully grasp - OWS Occupy point out the failings in society - then the people who here go about addressing those issues - or not - depending on each individual.
Yes, that's it DK, but also I think the overwhelming majority of OWS people feel that getting mixed up with the dems, or even a third party would do more harm than good. I concur with the belief that this movement has to be apolitical in terms of not getting involved with this election. I do expect that many people within OWS will vote though as I will, probably, and I can guarantee very,very few will vote for Romney, and that includes me. Also there will be many little victories along the way, that will come about because 'they' will try to satiate us (the radicals) with as little as necessary, so that real reform....a sea change in the way our political, and financial institutions are run.....can be averted.
I know this is a contentious issue on this forum, (and there are some good people on both sides of this who are simply going with their conscience), but that does not apply to everyone here...Anyway i can assure you, 'this' is not an 'issue' in the streets of NYC unless things have changed drastically in the two months I have been in Alaska, which I seriously doubt.
I understand where you are coming from. I feel that issues need to be addressed. That campaigns like Move to Amend are the way the people need to go to start getting the government and this country and this world back on track. This I feel will be the positive public pressure needed. Protest is great for alerting the population that there are things that need to change and that is a very important start to getting support and unity at the same time I feel that we need to be telling government what we want and how we want it.
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I understand you also, and agree with the issues 'thing.' I just feel that until we educate enough people, and get them to be as 'outraged' as we are, and eventually in the streets....there will be no REAL systemic change that we so desparately need. Is this 'pretty?' No, but considering how entrenched this corrupt system is, it is necessary.
And I am trying to build that support in my way by getting people to speak-up and speak-out. There is a lot of apathy and we need to find ways of waking people-up to the fact that - YES - they can make a difference - you have your way and I am doing as best I can with my situation to contribute.
Yes i respect that, and as I have said before you are doing a good job of it. We have both grown a lot since we have been here, haven't we?
One thing Odin. And this really really really really really really really really really really really Bothers Me.
Stop with the disparaging remarks about armchair activists!
You apparently are all about street activism - but your way is not the only way - other people have other talents and drives - do not discount what others do or how they do it.
Agreed, Respect for all non violent tactics. Petitions, letter writing, face mail, protests, phone calls, voting!
I support all these and I urge everyone to be inclusive and accept as many like minded supporters along to grow the movement.
Solidarity
You're right, a diverstiy of tactics is what is needed, and we can all contribute in some way. Resistance is the key. That does not include having 'OWS' get involved with the dems on here. I am lucky at this point in my life that I can do what I can in the streets, especially after having had my own health issues to deal with. My remarks were not meant to disaparage anyone who cannot do this, so I apologize to you or anyone else I might have offended. Factsy is a vindictive little man though, and as much as I would like to overlook him, I can't, since the success of this movement is at stake.
Well then - how about instead of attacking his core beliefs - you instead promote street activities and the reasoning behind them the different tactics and targets and approaches the things that are happening right now and things that are being planned and things that should be planned.
If someone smacks you in the forehead with the metaphorical 2x4 of attacking protesting - what is gonna happen(?) you are gonna retaliate.
Just sayin.
Peace.
Promoting partisan politics on this OWS forum is not a "core belief." Instead it is an easy, and harmful way to bring this movement down. Suggesting that OWS intertwine itself with the dems is ludicrous since they are one of the two parties that have brought us to where we are now. Arguably it all started with the Glass Steagall Act which in fairness was promoted by three repubs, and signed into law by dem President Clinton. Peace
I am sorry the 1st line of your comment looked like a rejection of what I had said.
[-] 1 points by Odin (3031) from Island Heights, NJ 0 minutes ago
I knew what you meant. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
no problem
I thought it all started with the Reagan conservative tinkle down theory, and ended with the conservative repeal of glass steagal?
Peace & keep-on Keeping-on.
[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (3174) 0 minutes ago
ok. no prob. I think banning people for those infractions will learn 'em real quick.
but I'm not tryin to create new rules I'm perfectly happy trying to police my exchanges alone.
Peace ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
A lot of those ( the nasty, vulgar, personal attacks ) are due to misunderstandings a quick temper and a dive into defensive mode. This series of reactions has developed from attacks made by many ( or serial ) OWS attackers - CorpoRATist shills. So everyone is a little jumpy and edgy and a bit to primed to go off on perceived attacks. I think that if everyone can give the benefit of the doubt to the other party - until that party turns out to be a corporatist shill or some other sort of OWS attacker - like vvvRustybuttheadBrucie - that the patience and tolerance could go a long ways towards benefiting this forum and promoting unity of cause and action.
Sorry to preach folks.
[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (3174) 0 minutes ago
Yeah yr a good egg. I certainly want to urge no fighting. Personally I think we can allow all opinions (even campaigning (during campaign season)) but ban the nasty, vulgar, personal attacks.
That would be great. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
I think the only ones who should be banned are those who are out and out anti OWS the corpoRATist shill/trolls/quislings.
I never told you to stop your advocacy - I just tried to get good supporters of OWS to stop fighting with each other.
[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (3174) 1 minute ago
But factsrfun is special no?
You think I should be banned.? I interpreted the rules as "no campaigning for particular candidate". I never say "vote for Obama". I defend him, I defend dems, I encourage voting, I encourage voting for progressives, I encourage voting out politicians who stand against the 99%.
I think I skirt the rules pretty well. In fact I think it is special. So I don't think there is grounds for banning. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
You have not been banned either.
There are plenty of people who do not want partisan politics promoted here - they do not however have the power to ban anyone - that is up to the forums discretion.
For all who support OWS and all of the Occupy movements - I ( "I" ) I would suggest that everyone concentrate on issues.
Just a suggestion - Hey?
[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (3174) 0 minutes ago
Maybe he is so special that he is allowed special dispensation. I bet his mom said he was special. Or maybe he has some dirt on Jart. We don't know. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
Yes you are right, "arguably" again, though. Many people believe it started the day Roosevelt implemented the New Deal. From that point on the whole political spectrum moved steadily to the right....while simultaneously the tax rate for the rich, and corporations has decreased. First it was the commies who were the bogeyman, then the socialists, and now the bleeding-heart liberals are made to be the bums. It has not ended though, as we all know.
[ Promoting partisan politics on this OWS forum is not a "core belief." ]
I never said that it was a core belief of OWS - I said they are core beliefs of factsrfun that you are attacking.
You think if the forum had a problem with factsrfun - that they would not ban Him?
Yeah yr a good egg. I certainly want to urge no fighting. Personally I think we can allow all opinions (even campaigning (during campaign season)) but ban the nasty, vulgar, personal attacks.
That would be great.
Maybe he is so special that he is allowed special dispensation. I bet his mom said he was special. Or maybe he has some dirt on Jart. We don't know.
ok. no prob. I think banning people for those infractions will learn 'em real quick.
but I'm not tryin to create new rules I'm perfectly happy trying to police my exchanges alone.
Peace
I knew what you meant.
But factsrfun is special no?
You think I should be banned.? I interpreted the rules as "no campaigning for particular candidate". I never say "vote for Obama". I defend him, I defend dems, I encourage voting, I encourage voting for progressives, I encourage voting out politicians who stand against the 99%.
I think I skirt the rules pretty well. In fact I think it is special. So I don't think there is grounds for banning.
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Nailed it
Exactly. You know what we're up against; decades of brainwashing to be undone.
Yes I know, and it doesn't help that MSM is part of the problem, or that there are some brain-washed people on this forum. Luckily the people out in the streets know better.
MSM is one of the biggest problems for sure. That's all going to change, though, since our youth is getting their news from the internet. Sure, it has it's problems, but MSM is definitely feeling the pinch, especially in Europe. I was just reading an article about it last night, but damn it, I can't remember where right now.
Yes the youth are way ahead of most of us on going to the internet for their news. Part of our job should be to trash MSM because they are just an arm of the corrupt system. I am not sure what you are referring to in Europe, but as more and more people turn away from, MSM, the better for us, obviously. I sent a sharply worded letter to my local paper, The Asbury Park Press, circ. 100,000, along these same lines.
The article was saying how some journalists in Europe are actually starting to report the truth (I know. gasp!) in some cases when the official story doesn't jive with cellphone videos and eyewitness accounts showing up on social networks. They are openly questioning the credibility of MSM.
Reporting the "truth," well that's a healthy sign. I hope it catches on here. The MSM is the big difference in this country between our struggle, and ones in the past. The MSM overall reported more accurately back then than now, so the only way for us to get over that hurdle is to use social media. I'm being redundant. I mentioned in my letter to my newspaper, 'There are no Edward R. Murrows in your newsroom.
I think, for the same reasons as in Europe, they'll probably have to clean up their act to some degree. The backlash against their b.s. has begun. Keep up the good work, Odin.
You too gnomunny.
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Right On!
A 99% movement against the tyranny of the 1% that discourages Voting, is a RepubliCon 1% Cult wet dream!!
"Offshoot"?? Dummy, we were fighting KingCons in the Class War before you were born, much less last fall!
Wake up and get out the VOTE!!!
If the swing states go for bush 3, and the supreme court gets to decide, will you sleep well. I didn't the last time, seeing the recounts and court battles go to GOP, maybe that's wynthere is now "citizens conquered" multi-endless wars trillions more debt, and a shitty world that doesn't even seem like real life-history of dick Cheney, USA loosing thebworld's sympathy after 9/11, being lied to by president and media and dems and citizens going happily along. It's like a moral question for many , do you sacrifice some lives to save many.
Ask Chick Fil A
Hey dumn fuck! No one, especially not me, said don't vote. You obviously have no clue what OWS is really about. OWS is apolitical, just do your fucking research. Read the fucking rules, "dedicated Democrat." NO PUSHING CANDIDATES!!
If you're pushing Democrats or Republicans in an apolitical movement, you are an OFFSHOOT!
Stupid fucks like you are what's chasing dedicated people away from this forum.
I'm 53 asshole. "Before you were born." Sheesh!
Two terms: de jure and de facto. It may have been what it was, but it is what it is.
Yep. And I have no problem with political discussions here, I've had many myself. I've also discussed at times the obvious need for OWS to get involved in the political process. My problem is when, newcomers especially, come here and insist this is a political movement or a political forum, then insult those of us who know what OWS is really all about. What bothers me is they're doing exactly the thing we were warned about last October, the co-opting of OWS into the Dem party. Not to mention chasing people away that don't WANT to discuss the same old left-right, R-D, duopoly. There's thousands of sites they can go to to mobilize the Dems, if that's what they want. The fact that come here leads me to suspect they are sometimes the very 'provocateurs' we are concerned with.
I am most interested in issues, of course it is inevitable that candidates and parties take positions that are nearer or further from the positions I think are the best for the country. Using them as examples is inevitable also.
We are where we are and the strategy and tactics of getting from here to where I want to be, is beyond my personal control, so I adopt tactics that I believe will move us in the right direction. This may or may not be a political forum or a movement, also beyond my control. I welcome civil dialog on almost and subject. I think it is intellectually honest to have only one alias and to defend the reputation I have created by my collection of posts. Conversely, I think it is intellectually dishonest to create a new alias just to attack people from. If you want to try a new position or argument, go for it, but do it under your flag and acknowledge that you did it.
I propose tactics which include working within the system and defend them. I don't think that purists trying to drive people out of the discussion, because it doesn't fit their template is beneficial. If that approach is enforced this discussion will be over in a flash. That is de facto.
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odin suggested I choose another id when I was being "attacked" I said it would go against all I stand for, I have no reason at all myself to think "g" is anything other than a supporter with whom I may have some disagreements
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Well put. I have one question, though, about your comment of multiple usernames. This is the only username I've ever used here so am I correct in assuming that wasn't directed at me specifically?
No, it wasn't directed at you . I was just ranting about my own pet peeve. I don't even clam that is intrinsically wrong to change aliases. But hiding your reputation or using an alias to launch a bigoted attack is less than courageous, in my personal opinion and something I would never do.
I understand. I didn't think it was.
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If you've lived that long and didn't learn anything in politics, then you are an even dumber POS than the sabotaging newbies (who claim to do it by accident and/or ignorance). But you're more likely a RepubliCon plant!! Sabotaging real action!!
A non-political political movement is not just a hilarious joke, it's a eunuch in a whorehouse!! Go sabotage a RW RepubliCon site!!
We have a Class War to fight, that most are oblivious to, and Voting ~ NOT FOR CONS ~ is how it's fought!
Get Out the VOTE! We have a whole lot of stupid to overcome!
Starting with you, obviously.
I believe we have saboteurs, agent provocateurs.
I also believe this whole bubbleheaded, OWS=Anarchy Not Political Action thing is part of it. Plants inciting infighting and inaction leading into an important election. Reports are out that NY "law enforcement" is monitoring protestors in new ways: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/25/us-newyork-occupy-report-idUSBRE86O1PA20120725
"They" want to continue what happened in WI, and repeat 2010!! Why would you?
'Cause I'm one of them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sarcasm alert, since you'll probably take me seriously.
Since you think OWS is part of it, why are you here?
Good website.
You?
Avid supporter. Regardless of what some may think.
What do some think?
Apparently, some think I'm a right-winger. Which would be funny if it weren't so totally off-base.
You win some, you lose some.
Yeah, we do. You've probably been there yourself.
No one truly thinks I'm a RWer.
But there are truly many Republicon plants and shills on this board!!
Because public sector unions are the wall street of democrats?
Specious argument compared to Big $ buying elections for their Cons.
What could you possibly have against Unions, the chamber of commerce for workers?
Oh, I dunno. Bankrupt cities? More generous pensions and healthcare plans than private industry? Exemptions from Social Security? Wouldn't bother me as much if I wasn't paying for it.
Those are the effects 1% Class War you're citing. Blaming them on Unions is 1% Class War propaganda. Unions have not succumbed to wage-slavery, so their decent compensations stand out and are targeted by the RW. That you believe Unions cost you anything is Crab Mentality!
All workers' employment should be Unionized, with Union compensations and all American businesses should be made to pay their taxes and hire Americans.
Apolitical? Really?
How does that work?
No Government, Anarchy?
Is this what OWS stands for, ignoring what our government does?
???APOLITICAL???
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Jesus, you people never stop. This FORUM is supposed to be apolitical. Here's the quote from forum rules:
"We do not support an election campaign for 2012. At all."
It doesn't get any clearer than that. Man, you people are fucking thick!
Glass Steagall should be taken off the table then, Mr. Apolitical
Regulating Wall Street, off the table.
The rich paying their fair share, off the table
Health care reform, off the table
Gun Laws, off the table
Clean Water, off the table
Global Warming, off the table
Your rudeness Gnomunny, for you, you can do anything!
Your insulting me, Gnomunny, ON the Table.
Me, I will leave you folks to sort out your powerful Apolitical Views.
Anarchy RULES!!!
I'm done with it................enjoy you peoples...........thickness
Don't Come Together, and see how that works out......
How can you have an Apolitical protest site? it just seems counterproductive. Even though I do try to adhere to the rules, they just seem counter intuitive to coming up with solutions. It is one thing to point out the problems in society, but the only way they will get addressed is through the political process.
Debating whether a third party has a chance to win in a majority take all system is a valid debate. I believe that if this site is going to crack down on party endorsements, they should also crack down on third party endorsements as well as those who advocate not voting at all.
I just don't see how anything productive can be achieved if no one addresses political ideologies and the parties that adhere to them. Just because the site is apolitical, it should not mean that we, the users, bite our tongues.
Though i'm debating you on your post, I'm not defending the user you are addressing. His/her language is too vulgar to defend.
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It's funny you say that. Originally, according to jart, this site wasn't supposed to be a "discussion and debate" site. It was only supposed to be for organizing and coordinating protest actions. She wanted the "d&d" to be confined to reddit. And although it's become a "d&d" site, there's a difference between talking about issues and solutions, or debating whether we should vote for Romney or Obama. It's the Romney and Obama shills, not the talking about the issues, that bugs us. It is the endorsements that aren't supposed to be here, not the discussions.
Fair enough.
Fuck the rules. Vote against right wing wackos. Very simple. They stand against the 99%. Fuck apolitical, fuck offshoot, and fuck you! The right wing anti assembly/free speech laws, the attacks from right wing politicians, and FOX news have chased away the so called dedicated people (not so dedicated I suppose) Not the supporters of the democrats. The supporters of OWS, then and now ARE democrats. Are you some kinda idiot? You think we had a lot of fuckin right wing wackos. What a fuckin moron. Fuck Fuck Fuck. Just to be sure I got enough fucks in (for hc, trev, and one extra for good luck)
This ends now!
Gr8 movie - hey like the blue highlights I get now when clicking on message links here.
That was a pretty enjoyable movie. Her reference, though, was about repubsRtheprob. I violated my unofficial rule about not bothering those girls over trivial shit, but his comments were absolutely out-of-hand. I messaged her and . . . .
BAM!
Buh-bye, repubsRtheprob, buh-bye.
But as you know, like a bad penny . . .
Or a Thrashy . . . ;-)
Yes - unfortunately we do have the ever returning to be booted again assholes. They do tend to provide good interactive examples of what not to be though.
Home grown was another good movie.
Yeah, maybe next time he'll have a more civil tongue.
Haven't seen Home Grown. I'll have to check it out.
Billy Bob is in it. Next time ? No - being booted has no effect on the A-Holes other than to piss em off - which is fine by me. Like I said they can provide a good example of what we are up against in fighting greed corruption crime. Sometimes with the shit they say - ya gotta wonder how they manage to remember to breathe - I mean what is the fewest number of operating brain cells that you can have functioning and remain alive?
Heh heh heh. Good question!
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Thanks jart.
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dont worry about anything,all is in process to arrest and seize assets of all cabal criminals, See Libor, Jamie Dimon. The Pope, the Vatican, The Queen,Rothschilds, Rockefellers,Bushes,Bilderbergs, all banksters, and anyone else caught in the dragnet to clean out the corruption inherent in most if not all institutions,corporations worldwide
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No.
No one.... well maybe the moderators back when they were here.
Not what I said.
No.
Never claimed to have authority but you should read the forum rules.
You should look up what fascism is.
Fuck you, and the forum rules. If there is no moderators I can say whatever I want.! And I say you should shut the fuck up about whether I support the dems Obama or anyone else. You don't like it.? Go whine about it.
Fascist fuckface, trying to tell me I can't post here. FUCK YOU!
You need to calm down.
Also you can say whatever you want... but you should be more adult about it... saying FUCK YOU to a bunch of people solves nothing and you lose all credibility when you speak.
Also your "You don't like it.? Go whine about it," comment is hilarious.
When the fuck did you become a "bunch of people"? And why the fuck would I care about whether you think I have credibility? You're the fascist piece of shit who doesn't want pro Obama, or pro Romney people on the site. How the fuck are we gonna convince people to come over to support OWS if we tell them not to post here? Are you some kinda pussy who can't stand and fight? Do you want this to be your private little playground where only people who already agree hang? You're disgusting, Weak! Ignorant! Selfish! Shortsighted! We must attract supporters not pick and choose who should be here. You fuckin moron. Is that calm enough for you? Do something positive. drawing lines as to who is allowed here is counterproductive to the movement. Don't let me catch you being a little pussy again. Be a man. Stop Whining. Engage those who disagree. Do not chase them off the site so you can jerk off with your narrow minded compatriots.
i've seen you on this forum making volatile comments toward others. That's why I said "bunch of people"
You need to calm down. You make "your cause" look bad when you act like this.
How am I a fascist? Because I made an internet post saying the purpose of this site is not to harass people about why they should support Obama or Romney? You have no idea what fascism is.
You are free to do what you want. But there are rules in certain areas.
You can even break rules!
Stop rambling you weak ass pussy! oh "I'm gettin tired of pro Obama people" Well maybe it's time for your nap little baby!. Don't worry how my cause looks! looks like I got another anti Obama muthafucker to bitch slap. Thats how my cause looks. You gonna tell I don't belong here now? you wimpy ass anti Obama, anti 99% piece of shit!
lol
you are by far my new favorite brainwashed system supporter.
brainwashed? Fuck you. ignorant little pussy. If you aren't against the right wing then you're the one brainwashed. You can suck my brainwashed dick!
I'm kind of thinking he would have a hard time finding that little prick of yours. Anybody who thinks he's a big tough man by threatening people on an internet forum are usually compensating for a serious lack of many things.
And who the fuck are you? another anti Obama mutherfucker? trevor is a little pussy. I don't threaten little pussies. he can't stand up to opposing views. He" gets so tired" and attempts to get them off the site. he and I disagree. I made that clear. he called me names I adjusted my approach and have gotten street on his pussy little ass. You got a problem with that? That is your misfortune. Because this is a virtual world and you can't do a thang about it. "big tough man"? Ha! You'de be surprised. Of course once again I don't need to be. Right? It's virtual. Those overcomensation issues don't apply.
:-) Sounds good, tough guy... keep on over-compensating for your lack of if that's what helps you feel better in this moment. The irony here is you probably have no idea how much your mindless adolescent rage and the dehumanizing nature of your posts cause enormous amounts of damage to your own cause.
Ah - I think that is where you may be mistaken - the rabid rants work to alienate everyone - which I think is the purpose.
You make a solid point...
The apparent A-Hole is way too familiar with the forum for him/her(? I would guess him ) to actually be a newbie.
Over compensation is a non issue in a virtual world. Why is it necessary to repeat myself to you? Trevors post was Anti Obama supporter. I am an Obama supporter. he suggested I don't belong here. I took issue with that. And I laid into him for that offense. My cause is fine thank you very much. No damage as far as I can see. What damage?
repubsRtheprob wrote... "His post says clearly we meant to go to a different site. So you are mistaken"
No, it doesn't, and no... I'm not mistaken. It's say if you want to tell people how to vote you should go to a different site. What that suggests is that he is trying to say that OWS is about discussion - participatory and consensus - and not being told what to do. And OWS surely isn't about being berated by a mindless adolescent who can't deal with his anger in appropriate ways.
Just because you say it's so, doesn't make it so...
You obviously have a lack of .. if you only can resort to the use of ad hominem and straw man arguments.
Trevor's post says... "No one comes to an OWS site to be told how they should vote. He never suggested that you are not allowed to be here. There is a distinction here, capeesh?
And, yes, you hurt your own cause by acting like a mindless adolescent who uses dehumanizing personal attacks and who can't control his rage. The sad part is that you probably aren't even an adolescent, but a grown adult.
His post says clearly we meant to go to a different site. So you are mistaken.Is that all you got.? He clearly does not want pro Obama people on this site. I don't need to prove that to you. If you don't see that fact it is your misfortune. I think perhaps you do and simply agree with him. Whatever. Guess what? OWS is made up of pro Obama democrats, no right wing wackos. and some left wing founding anrachists. Ha!
Bush once said if you don't support his wars that means you support al Qaeda.
You are using his style of propaganda? Do you feel brainwashed yet?
Okay I'm done responding to you.
were the "the wars" and "al Qauda" on the same ballot and pulling like 90% in the polls leading up to the choice? if so then yes? of course it is a ridiculousness comparison only the sort a lying supporter of the 1% would even suggest, this is the kind of non argument the 1% use all the time, the truth is Obama or Romney will win you know that you don't even pretent to say otherwise, and al Qaeda was not on any ballot, but it does not surprise me to see you using Bush's logic as you are such a strong supporter of him.
Fuck Bush. He is not President anymore. Your brainwashed if you think a little bombing is not necessary to stay in office in this right wing wacko country of ours.
tell me more of this bombing, do you have links I would like to know is the trend up or down, if I care about something I like to know a little about it
No links, sorry. I believe we bomb much less now than under Bush. I want us to stop feedin the military industrial complex, Democrats will do that. Republicans won't. I think Obama does what he has to to retain office in this right wing wacko country so that he can stop feeding the military.
no sir, this is not Harvard
And who are you? Another anti Obama agent?
This could be the first time in history where people who consider themselves to be part of a "revolution" will then endorse the status quo in the same breath.
I honestly dont think this has probably ever happened in history.
I would find this kind of promoting of partisan politics on here laughabe if the situation we are all in wasn't so serious.
Its just more proof that we are very far away from uniting in any kind of meaningful change.
The three amigos here are alienating about 65% of the general population.
Some people are here for one reason, and it is not to see the success of this movement. The people who are making the real sacrifices know better.