Forum Post: No libertarians, no current parties. Create a new one.
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 6, 2011, 7:46 p.m. EST by sylvain
(7)
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So, here I am getting pumped that this movement is at least attempting to create a new process to figuring out problems, and now people are suggesting we adopt the current processes! This General Assembly is a completely unique process and I humbly believe that this is a must in order for this movement to gain steam. Forget the current terms. Right, left, libertarians, blah blah. Friends, they are all why we are here now. First, libertarians want extremely limited government. If we were to adopt this process right now and elect a libertarian, then the "starting points" would be blatantly uneven. Even more so than now as that party would want no social programs paid for by government. It would make little sense. The government would be weakened and then the folks with loot would be in charge simply because money is not going to lose its power. Come on. We need a unique approach to this unique situation. I believe we need a strong government, just one that is working for us. We need social programs like after school programs so kids can get better adjusted and parents can work longer hours to get ahead, and so forth. A libertarian approach would require the people to pay for these programs and as we know, people can't even afford simple mortgages! This 1% are the only ones that can afford to act communally right now. We need a vibrant strong government (and certainly not the dems!) and I will strongly say that all forms of government are wrong right now. None of them are going to fix our situation. A new one will, so let's remain focused and create a new process. And is there a way to add to the discussion? Is there a way to be involved with this general assembly without getting to NYC? I want to be involved in the discussion!
I share your enthusiasm for a new kind of thinking that transcends political party. However, statements like "no libertarians" contribute to the same divisive, black-and-white thinking that is part of the problem. We really need to be careful not to marginalize potential allies. I have many disagreements with libertarians, but many of them have their hearts in the right place. There is a natural partnership that could be formed between libertarian and progressive citizens (and I hate these labels as much as you, but they are part of our language and help provide a base of common understanding). Both understand the corrosive influence of corporations and special interests in our political system. Both agree that we need to bring troops home. Both see the destructive effects of the drug war and our criminal justice system. These are massive areas of agreement, and it is just the beginning! That's why, despite criticisms by the media, I think it is a great thing that the movement has no official demands yet. It gives room for more people of various political backgrounds to join and share in their frustration with the system.
Thank you, Joe! Well said. A blanket statement excluding any group is a mistake, and that includes conservatives and tea partiers.
Sylvain, I agree with you about giving up labels, terms, etc. I believe the Left - Right paradigm is corporate branding designed to divide us and make it appear as though we have a choice (i.e., at each successive election, we can throw the rascals out).
I want an extremely limited federal government. State and local governments are much more responsive to the people, and they can better reflect the individuals views of this incredibly diverse country.
"We need social programs like after school programs so kids can get better adjusted and parents can work longer hours to get ahead, and so forth." That's crazy. We need to spend more time with our kids. We can't afford to spend time with our kids because of inflation and the Fed Reserve. Listen, we all want to take care of the disadvantaged and the old. Libertarians want that as much as you do. We just disagree (for the moment) about how to do that. Libertarians don't want no government; they want stronger state governments and less federal government. Ron Paul has said would leave social security in place, allowing people to opt out if they want to. He also says we could pay for all the social programs we want if we bring our troops home. We have more starting points in common than you think.
Excellent points, I agree with everything you said here. Especially your point about libertarians want to help the disadvantaged and the old just as much as liberals. Gosh, I feel like I'm getting beaten up around here.
How about this for a radical idea: why is it that some here want a bigger piece of a rotten pie? A stronger federal government is the last thing I want.
How about alternative currencies so we can have local barter? I don't want to work for the man, let alone more hours. I also don't want to send my kids to a government school for 40 hours a week so that someone who doesn't love them can give them some canned agenda, however well-intentioned they may be.
Also sometimes I think people forget that a wealthier middle class is much better positioned to give to charity, volunteer to help the needy, etcetera.
I don't blame any one person, I just disregard them all. I will continue to get involved but I am forming my own process at this point, as I am spending a ton of time with this, and I want to get involved. I just so strongly believe that it has to be a unique approach that when I hear things about the current establishment, I just get so turned off. Nothing has worked in the entire world. We have been wrong about pretty mush everything and we need a new approach.
Yes, I agree with this. There are countries that are doing new things, taking a new perspective. I watched Our Current World Crisis by John Perkins on YouTube - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mqqtCoes50 It is an hr and a half long, but totally worth it. He talked about a south american country (maybe Paraguay?) that is defining a currency in terms of the value of a unit of labor. Also he talked about another country which granted 'inalienable rights' to all sentient beings.
One concept I think he is right about is that until we decide to defend rights for all humans, then no human is safe. This means ending the wars.
Some of his ideas are left-leaning for me, but I think he is very forward in his thinking.
Good question!
I advocate the General Assemblies becoming a universal omnipresent direct democracy.
To do so will require a way to make an in person process, limited by the speed of sound, into an electronic universally accessible instantaneous process. This is the very thorny issue that has (IMAO) held up the Green Parties.
In the interim, to ease the way, interfere with state violence, and publicly represent consensual governance, vote Green Party. GPs do not take corp. donations, nor are they beholden to an ideology. GPs work for social and environmental justice. If there is a will to build a more accessible party, if it works, I will join it, but we do not need to divert the energy of the assemblies to replicate what has been done.
When the assemblies choose to worry about state governance, I am sure they will be able to choose a viable course.
However, if you do not agree with the GPUS Platform (@ http://www.gp.org/committees/platform/2010/index.php ), or want instant electronic culture satisfaction, rather than years of personal politicking, then this question may well then be of utmost importance.
Either way, absent a new way to collectively self govern making The State obsolete, the movement for humane human survival needs to have an electoral party it can trust which is beholden only to actual humans. (Not that I advocate representation nor the state)
Yes!!! We need a party but something new. Something we create to work for us. We can't be left alone. Then there would be real and horrifying class warfare. Nobody wants that. Great thoughts!
libertarians is another chess color on the corporate oligarchy pwn chess board. we need real solutions from science- not another ideology.
great point. Something new. Unique approach for a unique situation. Excellent.
Agreed. We currently have no say in the Government, Republicans and Democrats are both owned by the 1% to give us an illusion of choice. They've got most of the third parties in their pockets as well in case we start to wise up.
Don't blame Obama, he's just the latest figurehead in a long line of figureheads. The 1% realized they needed a more charismatic puppet in the white house than the village idiot they had in there last time.
The 1% don't see us as people, they see us as farm animals!
I've felt powereless for a long time, I'm not sure if I have the physical stamina to even go to the local protests tomorrow, but there's still things people like us can do. Spread the word about the movement, educate people about what's really going on. Try to keep the million different opinions on these forms focused on what's important. We want our country back, we want our freedom back. We're awake, steaming mad and we're not gonna take it anymore!