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Forum Post: GOOD NEWS: A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SOLUTION to our economic, environmental, social & political problems is at our fingertips.

Posted 1 year ago on Dec. 19, 2012, 6:51 a.m. EST by therising (6643)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

We admirably strive to improve the world.  We work to end war, feed the hungry and enact laws that will protect our kids and our environment.  We push back against the corporate hijacking of our republic.  We work to change the rules of our economy in order to reverse dramatic wealth disparity.  All of these nonviolent efforts are important and we should keep at it. But our current mode of thinking has prevented us from recognizing an even more powerful solution, one that can compliment and energize our current efforts.

One reason we haven't solved our major problems yet is that we continue to see things as happening TO us and we keep searching for solutions ONLY in the external world. Those solutions, as necessary as they are, are not sufficient.  They will only stick if we also change our internal point of view.

Our current dualistic worldview will always lead to more problems.  This is true no matter how well-meaning we are and no matter how hard we work to fix external circumstances.  If we really want to change things, we're going to have to realize that these external circumstances are essentially symptoms of a deeper "dis-ease".  

Ironically, the flawed dualistic frame through which we view the world is essentially what's causing a lot of the problems that we're working so hard to fix.  We need to take responsibility for our contribution to these problems.  Luckily, taking such personal responsibility opens the door for us to play a real role in the solutions as well.

Albert Einstein put it like this: "A human being is part of a whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.”

We are currently stuck in a dualistic "everything is separate and it's me against the world" mindset.  The good news is that, once we take a step back, we can come to realize that this mindset is just a delusion.  The source of the struggle is not really out there in the world as we think it is.  The SYMPTOMS are out there and they are very real and dangerous.  But the true root of the problem is in our heads.  We are simply projecting our internal delusion out into the world.  In our minds, we red staters and blue staters, we democracy advocates and anarchists, we Christians and Muslims are in the same boat in one very important aspect: We each think of ourselves as separate individuals and we experience daily life with a "me vs. the world" mindset.  By doing so, we see a distorted view of reality, almost as if we are wearing green tinted glasses.  We THINK the whole world is green (full of disconnected individual parts) and we are 100% sure that's reality.  But it isn't.  We can awaken to a larger view and see the world as it actually is, an interdependent whole (rather than a collection of disconnected parts).  Once we gain this context, our own individual world will transform and so will our society as others awaken from the dualistic delusion too.

We each think we are like separate waves in the ocean.  Each individual wave (and human being), it appears, is "born", rises and "dies" and is separate from the others.  This is our perspective and to us, it's "just the way it is."   We compare ourselves unfavorably along the way to some "waves" and resist others.  It is a dissatisfied perspective full of struggle that leads to continual stress and resistance.  It also causes all of us to do harm in the world, no matter how good our intentions.

We start off on many valiant efforts to fix things, but we lose before we even start because we begin with a limited mindset that cuts us off from the very results we seek.

But it doesn't have to be this way.  The worldview that says we are all separate waves is a distorted view of reality.  As a matter of fact, it's just an idea in our heads.  As you well know, the truth is that waves are just WATER.  They aren't separate from the ocean.  You can't really draw a line and show where one ends and another begins. The separateness we are so sure exists in the world is just an artificial construct in our minds.  The "wave" is just a form.  It's really just water.  

The water exists in the world, but the wave only exists in our heads.

We only think we're seeing individual waves because, with language, we name things and thereby lay a false grid across the world, artificially segmenting it into parts.  Then, amazingly, we turn around and believe that segmentation is actually out there in the world.  We believe that separateness to be real.

It's as if we're looking out at a mountain range through binoculars that have lines on the lenses to denote different parts of the field of view and we mistakenly think the lines are out there in the world.  "Look at those mountains!" we exclaim.  "They have lines on them.  I see them.  They're right there!" We're so darn sure.

It is incredibly important to recognize the distinction between perception and reality here because this "we are all separate" mindset is a delusion we ACT on in the world and these actions are often quite harmful to us, others and the environment. This is the root of most of our troubles. Our worldview blinds us to our connection to others, blinds us to the fact that our well being is tied to the well being of others.

That damaging stress that comes from isolation and brings on all this problems drops away, though, when we drop the delusion that we are separate individuals. We can stop thinking these artificial divisions in our minds actually exist in the world.  When we awaken and realize we are water (rather than individual waves), we see commonality and connection and we don't feel desperate and alone.  We realize we have power and our actions (whether positive or negative) have an impact on this delicate and interdependent world.  We realize that we have responsibility for what happens to us.  Blaming and attacking the neighbor or someone across the sea, then, is just plain silly.  It would be like your left hand attacking your right if the right hand accidentally hits the left with a hammer.

Thich Nhat Hanh put it this way:  When we look at a sheet of paper with our dualistic eyes, we see it as somehow separate from us.  But the truth is that that paper came from a tree.  So, if we are honest, we recognize the tree in the paper.  And if we continue to be honest, we realize that a logger cut down that tree.  So the logger is really part of the paper too.  The bread that fed the logger and the baker who baked that bread are also part of the paper.  And the tree wouldn't have grown in the first place without water and sunshine, so those are part of the paper too.  The paper could not exist without them. 

When we take a step back and continue this line of thinking, we begin to realize that there is nothing that is not somehow connected to that paper, including us.  That's why the Buddhists call the sheet of paper, the wave, and every other form "empty".  What they mean is that it is empty of a separate self, empty of a separate existence.  It can't exist without everything else.  It is conditional.  Interdependent.  Connected.  And so are we.* 

Particle physics is beginning to discover this exact same phenomenon (see the film "Mindwalk" and the work of Fritjof Capra and others). The idea that we or the paper are some separate lonely object or form disconnected from everything else is just false.  Unfortunately, that false perspective of separateness and loneliness is the one we carry around with us all day long.   It's our "green glasses".  

Because of the distorted view of reality we get through those glasses, we see danger where there is none and we feel fear that there's no reason to feel.  Our minds are like motors producing all sorts of thoughts (the majority of them lacking any grounding in reality).  And unfortunately we believe everything we think, even when those thoughts are fueled by the delusion that we are separate from everyone else.  As a result, we act on false information on a daily basis and thereby cause a lot of harm to ourselves and others.  This, it seems, is the underlying problem that is the root of all the surface problems we keep attempting to fix.

When we focus on root causes, this doesn't mean we stop working on the symptoms. Environmental laws and regulations preventing corporations from buying elections etc. are necessary.  But we can't stop there.  We need to also work on a fundamental level to fix the underlying problem:  We have a flawed mindset right out of the gate that cuts us off from the very change we seek.

Dostoevsky put it this way: "Man has been broken up into self-contained individuals, each of whom retreats into his lair. . . He only [worries] that the wealth and privileges he has accumulated may get lost. . . [But] the security of the individual cannot be achieved by his isolated efforts but only by mankind as a whole. . . AN END to this fearful isolation is bound to come and all men will understand how unnatural it was for them to have isolated themselves from one another."

Martin King, Jr. said, "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. And you can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. We are, all of us, inextricably linked."

Once we recognize that we are" inextricably linked", another world is truly possible.  All we need to do is take off those green tinted glasses.  Then we can view the world as it is instead of the world as it is in our heads.

PS - Perk up. Our action opens up every possibility. Too often we look fearfully to the future not realizing that our assumption is that we are powerless and will do nothing. We are NOT powerless and we will NOT do nothing! Soon, with our help, the warm sun will rise. :)

186 Comments

186 Comments


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[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

A reflective and deeply philosophical post. Thanx 'tr' and tho' I can add little to that which has been said, nevertheless - I append :

~

'Rise like Lions after slumber

In unvanquishable number,

Shake your chains to earth like dew

Which in sleep had fallen on you -

Ye are many - they are few."

~

From "The Mask of Anarchy", by P.B. Shelley, written on the occasion of the massacre of workers who were protesting for their basic rights and carried out by the British Government at Peterloo, Manchester 1819 : http://www.artofeurope.com/shelley/she5.htm .

per ardua ad astra ...

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Thanks for the links. Will check them out ASAP.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Happy Solstice, Xmas & beyond + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7plNRs5kwgE :-)

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

"Rise like lions after slumber. . . " Awesome.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

'Rise like Lions after slumber

In unvanquishable number,

Shake your chains to earth like dew

Which in sleep had fallen on you -

Ye are many - they are few."

(P.B.Shelley)

Thanx 'tr' - best wishes, happy holidays and ...

fiat lux et fiat pax ...

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

This quote now hangs above my desk. Thanks very much for sharing it.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Wow. That's my favorite new poem :o} I'm going to remember and quote that often. Cheers!

[-] 4 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

I'm still learning this as it is a spiritual issue. But reframing a little... Have you heard the story of the hundereth monkey. Seems scientists were watching monkies on an Island eating yams. The yams grew in sand and the monkies pretty much dug them up and ate them raw on the spot. one day a monkey was observed washing sand off the yam down at the water. later another monkey was observed doing the same thing...maybe 2 month later. After 3 months a third, after 6 months a 4rth monkey was washing the sand off his yam down at the river. 10 months later there was a big progression through the whole troop. 1 Year later all monkeys were washing their yams. They figure after 100 monkeys were washing the yams it was like a consciousness shift and all monkeys had learned the same lesson. But the bigger idea came later. There was another island across the ocean with monkeys eating yams. In that year they too were washing yams in the water, but had had no contact with the other island.

Just want to disagree with the idea that all people have to agree or learn the lesson up front. I've heard that it could be as small as 3% agreeing with the idea will tip the scales and the idea will catch on if a good idea. Not sure who wrote about that, Bill Black or Robert Reich? I'd think the idea for OWS kind of change would be over 10%, probably over 20% of the population to spread the idea and for everyone to learn the lesson.

About the 1%, I don't think they are coming with us. There are bone heads out there. However, I think the campaign of Education can and will succeed. I think there are some group dynamics that happen... Backlash, Blowback, Pushback, Martyrdom, pushing to far, trampling rights, stagflation, depression, unemployment, over taxation, unsafe food, unsafe work, chronic disease or health problems, poor quality products, low wages, poor treatment by management, poor treatement by government offices, ...everything adds up.

Having two systems, or two classes, can hide the problem. The lying in the media hides the problems. It is not as simple as monkeys. Government is not transparent, not really responsive to FOI requests, complicated. Corporations are not transparent and don't have to respond to any requests for info.

Politics are diabolical. But the whole nation must change. It is gonna take time. Education is a critical part.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

Thanks for your efforts here Middleaged! You are much appreciated.

[-] 3 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Thanks very much. Hope you're having a great Christmas or Yule. Best of everything for the New year.

I'm glad you are here and sharing your experience.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Well, at one point last fall, the polls of mainstream news outlets showed that 40 - 50% of Americans were supportive of Occupy Wall Street. I think that shows that there are already a whole hell of a lot of people who get what's going on. The problem is they are not speaking up. BUT check this out: http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-have-the-power-to-turn-this-world-around-this-o/

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

I'm sure you are right about the 40-50%. Not sure if that means we need people agreeing more specifically, or if we are just below the threshold of a dream. Good reference to Moody Blues song.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Just below the threshold of a dream. Great line! I think that's what it is. People feel it. They just need to realize other people feel it too. The more people who say it out loud, the more others will say it out loud too.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yes, it is Spirit in the sense of lifting the idea up and lifting our own spirits up.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

We need more of that spirit. If we get this rolling as a virtuous cycle, real freedom and relax community will "rise like the sun through the morning clouds.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I think it's in the early stages of becoming a virtuous cycle. Each person opens the eyes of a few. And so on and so on and so on and so on.

[-] 3 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

This is probably the most honest and wise post I've read on here. If you're familiar with Eckhart Tolle's book, ' A New Earth', he addresses much of what you say.
I'm not a religious person that subscribes to any particular dogma ( except what my dogs teach me) but I am a very spiritual person and I know that materialism feeds our egos and drives us further and further away from living a spiritual life. We are born spiritual beings and without a spiritual life, we have no conscience, no heart, no purpose and meaning to our life. Children are born with nothing but love for everything. They have no fear, no anger, no judgment. We teach them all those ' virtues'. Children like to touch, they like to hug, they like to laugh and play and explore. We should take some time to imagine ourselves as the beings we were the day we were born and peel off the layers of social conditioning that has poisoned our hearts and minds. I know that our problems have rooted from a lack of spirituality. ALL life on this earth is hinged to other life and when we focus on external gratification and image, we lose sight of our real purpose which is to nurture human relationships that support a healthy world and family. I was serious about my comment about learning from my dogs. They have taught me so much about love, forgiveness, death and living fully with joy in the present moment.
Industry is in collusion with leadership for the purpose of controlling us. There is nothing that either propose for us that is good for us and we need to learn to say no to their polices and handouts. Anything they suggest is mostly bad for us and it's purpose is to increase wealth for our country and the world governments. We desperately need to change our selfish and violent mindset but as long as there is violence on TV, in music, at sporting events, road rage, etc.. the majority of people will not change. This is because there are very few leaders vs followers in populations and the followers need someone to tell them how to live, what to do. They are easily influenced. So, there needs to be more effective effort from leaders and I'm talking about us, those who recognize the true need for spiritual awakening. If we remove music that is demeaning, demoralizing and violent, many will cry that America is censoring us. But, they are already censoring us! Look at how bad cable TV is and we must pay for that! They want us to have violent music because as you pointed out, it fosters that dog eat dog mentality that fuels competition and drives us to spend more and earn more than others. We are trained like pitbulls to be fight dogs. Is it no surprise that people like Michael Vick are considered heroes? Nonetheless, who cares if they censor us by removing toxins from the environment and toxins from our media? Have we lost all commonsense? I don't mind someone providing good things or guiding me toward good things. My philosophy for my lifestyle is real simple: I only put into my mouth what has nutritional value, I only spend money on items that have value and will benefit me long term, and I only need one good honest friend. Granted, I can't always avoid breaking my rules but at least I live with a conscience and I do my very best to make the best choices. Merry Christmas, Happy Solstice and thank you Rising for sharing this. You put a smile in my heart.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

PS - Eckhart Tolle is great. Some other favorites of mine are Mingyur Rinpoche (spot on), Nhat Hanh (great info on ENGAGED spiritual life), Martin Luther King, Jr., Gandhi, James Baldwin and Cornel West. I'm very interested in the intersection of individual practice (very important) and community engagement (equally important). No need to choose as some suggest. We can do both. We can push really hard with joy instead of pushing really hard with anger. The joyful pushing is actually more effective whether it's feeding the homeless, tutoring a 7 year old or blockading the entrance to Goldman Sachs.

I think if each of us internalized a nice mix of the mindset of the authors I mentioned above plus had the knowledge gained from life experience, other books and award winning documentaries like Why We Fight, The Corporation and Inside Job, we could make a real, positive and lasting difference in this world. That difference could be multiplied exponentially if we practice daily and go at this stuff with the mindset of love, the kind of universal love (agape) that ML King described.

We can do this. King reminded us often that "the moral arc of the universe bends towards justice." His methods of nonviolent action along with those of Gandhi and Gene Sharp can help us remove the corporatists who have hijacked our great republic. The power is in our hands. Here's one thing I'd like to see happen (among many) :) ------ http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/you-may-have-seen-this-list-of-8-practical-goals-b/ .

[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

Yes indeed, I love reading all sorts of wise authors- many that you mentioned.
It''s not all that complicated to create a happy world. All one has to do is be kind, compassionate, respectful and most of all recognize the divine nature of one's self. If we can't recognize our own divinity then we won't see it in others.
A mix of all the great philosophers and wise-men is always the way to educate oneself and it's a continual process. We learn different things from the same teachers at different times throughout our development.
John O'Donohue was probably one of the greatest teachers I had and I miss him so terribly some days that I actually sit and talk to him like some pray to G-d. (John passed away a few years ago). If you go to youtube and type in his name, there all sorts of videos of him. He also has a website that his family keeps online. I love his (youtube) lecture to the psychologists at an annual conference. He has such a loving and respectful way of showing them how flawed they are! hahahha

We do need a blend of political action mixed with spirituality. Americans have a tendency to run from political activism and I can understand why. It's radical, it's stereotyped as having oppositional disorder and for pot smoking poetry writing airheads. Likewise, activists tend to run from anything spiritual as it connotes something religious. I can relate to that as well. So, in order to change anyone's opinion, we need to incorporate some type of moral value in doing what is right. My exhusband ( a psychologist and agnostic) told me once that all you need is a pulpit and a southern accent and you will have a congregation in no time and a million bucks in the bank by the end of the week. Americans are so desperate for meaningful leadership, moral leadership. We've reached a point where it's cool to be mean, to be rude, to bully, to laugh at violence on youtube videos. This is insanity, evil insanity and the devil is enjoying the show.
Look, if all these millionaire evangelists can have so much influence, why can't we? We just need a pulpit! You know that Joel ? preacher? All he does is tell moral parables during his sermons. The guy isn't any more special than we are. He's just a man who capitalized on americans who are looking for comfort and answers. But, he's not really providing any answers. He's just encouraging them to keep praying and sending in more money ;D

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

All the best to you. May you be surrounded by family, community, laughter and love. May we human beings, all of us, continue and double our nonviolent push for fundamental political, social and economic transformation. I hope we find real traction on those fronts in 2013. As the great Cornel West once said, "Justice is what love looks like in public." It's the ultimate expression of love, a gift that keeps on giving! And justice can bring with it peace.

I sincerely believe a virtuous cycle has begun. Cheers!

PS - Check this out when you have a chance. I think it'll put even more spring in your step :) http://occupywallst.org/forum/extraordinary-speech-check-this-out/

[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

Bless you Rising and I wish you all the wonderful things that you deserve.

I must run this morning ...I'm taking my dogs down to the battlefields to run while everyone is at Walmart. I'll check back later today to see how the gang is behaving ;D

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Awesome. Enjoy this beautiful day :)

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

You just about summed up my entire post in one sentence when you said: "If we can't recognize our own divinity then we won't see it in others."

Also, completely agree that we learn different things from the same teachers at different times over our lives. Can't tell you how many times I've gone back through something the clicked for me and found it clicking on a whole new deeper and more refreshing level.

I think it's sad but true that Americans are indeed super hungry for some type of spiritual meaning and leadership... Spiritual leadership, moral leadership, political leadership, economic leadership.... A whole lotta leadership. Not many leaders out there right now. A whole lot of well meaning folks who try initially and then fall prey to the pitfalls, the power or are snowed by the technicalities and overall momentum and force of the current system. Most so called leaders today are afraid to say the emperors have no clothes.

I think collectively and individually we need to say it loud and clear: the emperor has no clothes. Occupy supporters/participants have done that in a big way over the last 16 months. It's been beautiful to see. We just need to uncover more ways to spread the word even further. It will go in fits and starts I suppose. But I think we have some momentum now and some real traction. I can tell that many people who are occupy supporters / participants are not backing down for nothin. They're all in. So are many friends of mine. So are many people I've met across the country. So am I.

We're on a roll now. And we ain't stopping for nothin. Together, our collective voice will rise above the din and wash over the corporatist dam. The water's been building up behind that dam for a long long long time and cracks are beginning to show. . . This is not just good for the 99%. It's also good news for the 1%. They're as trapped in this corporate machine as much or more than we are. We should all help ourselves safely navigate the future so we can glide into a soft landing together.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Wow. Thanks so much for taking the time to read this post and make such a heartfelt comment. That gives me heart! Thanks for making my day. :)

As much as it might feel like we're wading through the muck right now, I really think a wider awakening is underway. I can't tell you how many people I meet (old friends and new, strangers and relatives, at work or during travel) who get this stuff. As James Baldwin put it so beautifully, "What I had wanted to say to them is exactly what they were saying to me and it was a beautiful thing to behold, them realizing that they could step out of the lie and the trap of their history and be, just be."

He also said this: "The light in the eyes is the only light there is and it is always there waiting to be found." It's there, in the eyes of the next stranger or coworker we see today. And the virtuous cycle continues. . . Nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come.

Cheers! :)

[-] 3 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

As deflated as I often feel, I've never felt more hopeful than I do today and for you tell me that you've noticed that others are noticing gives me even more hope.
Some of the things I've noticed about our culture is that more and more people are turning to retro ideas, products, styles and they are seeking the wisdom of their ancestors through genealogy research. I believe people are attempting to bring value and substance to their lives and perhaps seeking to discover themselves and validate their existence. In the last 24 hours, I've had more positive, kind things happen to me than I've had in an entire two years. I mean that. I've been living in pure hell for so long and I honestly didn't know how much longer I could tolerate this. But, I feel more hopeful today. Please keep inspiring people to live from their hearts and not their egos.

Today is a very special day for me as it's the Solstice. It's the shortest day of the year, the darkest. But as a special teacher of mine once said, ' It is from darkness that light is born".

He once wrote an essay called, " Blessing Our World Now" and in the spirit of this Solstice, I'll share it with you now:

Sometimes when we look out, the world seems so dark. War, violence, hunger and misery seem to abound. This makes us anxious and helpless. What can I do in my private little corner of life that could have any effect on the march of world events? The usual answer is: nothing. We then decide to do what we can for our own, and leave the great events to their domain. Thus, we opt out, and join the largest majority in the world : those who acquiesce. Believing ourselves to be helpless, we hand over all our power to forces and systems outside us that then act in our names; they go on to put their beliefs into action; and ironically these actions are often sinister and destructive. We live in times when the call of full and critically aware citizenship could not be more urgent. We need to rediscover the careless courage, yet devastating simplicity, of the little boy who, in the middle of the numbered multitude, in naive Socratic fashion, blurts out; " But the emperor has no clothes." When spoken, the word of truth can bring down citadels of falsity.

Real presence is the ideal of all true individuation. When we yield to helplessness, we strengthen the hand of those who would destroy. When we choose indifference, we betray our world. Yet the world is not decided by action alone. It is decided more by consciousness and spirit; they are the secret sources of all action and behavior. The spirit of a time is an incredibly subtle, yet hugely powerful force. And it is comprised of the mentality and spirit of all individuals together. Therefore, the way you look at things is not simply a private matter. Your outlook actually and concretely affects what goes on. When you give in to helplessness, you collude with despair and add to it. When you take back your power and choose to see the possibilities for healing and transformation, your creativity awakens and flows to become an active force of renewal and encouragement in the world. In this way, even in your own hidden life, you can become a powerful agent of transformation in a broken, darkened world. There is a huge force field that opens when intention focuses and directs itself toward transformation. ~.John O'Donohue

If you get a chance, give this a listen, I know it will warm your heart. http://www.onbeing.org/program/inner-landscape-beauty/203

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (26697) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Darkness can help us appreciate the LIGHT. Darkness can make LIGHT so Obvious. So shine - Shine ON.

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

The more I think about this, the more I realize it's true. Darkness can make the light of truth so obvious. All we need is to become the innocent boy again, uttering those momentous words: the emperor has no clothes.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26697) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

YES. The plain and simple truth will stand out on it's own - it just needs to be expressed.

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

It feels like the time is ripe. I feel like the public is awakening to how badly they've been duped. I think people are realizing our system is great but it's been hijacked by selfish corporatists.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26697) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yes - the realization that government has stopped working for the people is very apparent - as even noted in a public speech made to government by the president = the system is broken = and the public is aware = and it is time to get back to the business of the people.

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

The speed and amount of change, in my view, is likely to be proportional to the extent to which we Americans use direct nonviolent tactics to expose the power, corruption and lies.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26697) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Speed and momentum increasing as each non-violent protest goes forward. As these actions are seen - even if not reported by the MSM.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

As the creativity, amount of participants and size of the corruption revealed increases, so too will the mainstream media coverage. I see a five to ten year arc here ending with a government of the people, by the people and for the people. What kind of timeline do your foresee? What kind of events would speed up that timeline?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26697) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Failure of consumerism due to lack of employment at living wage will have a huge and ever building impact. Time line ? I honestly think the dam could burst at any time - sooner rather then later. Notice the anger of the public at the protestors has dropped quite a bit - people were angry due to the fact that they were not being allowed to just block out the ills in the world around them ( illness due to lack of spiritual food ) - now that anger is being redirected towards the proper source = the ills of society perpetrated by the Greed/power of the few.

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I want to see more of that expressed publicly. I really want people to stand up and say "the emperor has no clothes" without falling into the tea party "every man for himself libertarian viewpoint. I want community.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26697) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

It is happening - it is just difficult to see as we are the only ones sharing news that relates ( mostly ) . The big break ( recent ) was MSM announcement of failed holiday sales. People will ask each other what they think about that - "Didn't they report massive crowds and sales on Black Friday(?)" - "now they report the weakest sales since 2008(?)" - " I think maybe we ought to be paying more attention to the on-going protests! "

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I sue hope people wake up to ethe big lie in plain sight. This is getting absurd.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26697) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

There comes a time ( hopefully before ones face gets ripped off ) that the 800 pound gorilla can not be ignored any longer.


[-] 2 points by therising (5906) 0 minutes ago

I sue hope people wake up to ethe big lie in plain sight. This is getting absurd. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

The 800 lb corporate gorilla has his long left arm stretched out to the side and has us dazzled with the shiny objects hanging from strings on his fingers while the right arm is busy setting up mechanisms of government and law so they only benefit the corporate gorilla. The 1% reaps the benefits for feeding this gorilla. And the beat goes on like this. . . Until . . . Until. . .

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I think this failure of consumerism to keep sustainable economy going is happening now as we speak before our very eyes but it's in slow motion so citizens don't really see the big picture. We need more graphs like the one at the end of this scene (see link below) which essentially run the trends in high speed which totally makes the average person choke on their coffee and wake the fuck up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvVAPsn3Fpk&feature=youtube_gdata_player . I love the section of the film at that link by the way. Kind of sums it up.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Right on :). Here's to alchemizing that raw energy into positive change!

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I listened to this. It's wonderful. Thanks for sharing

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I've been giving this more and more thought and it really is empowering. Thanks do much for sharing it! " The spirit of a time is an incredibly subtle, yet hugely powerful force. And it is comprised of the mentality and spirit of all individuals together. Therefore, the way you look at things is not simply a private matter. Your outlook actually and concretely affects what goes on. When you give in to helplessness, you collude with despair and add to it. When you take back your power and choose to see the possibilities for healing and transformation, your creativity awakens and flows to become an active force of renewal and encouragement in the world. In this way, even in your own hidden life, you can become a powerful agent of transformation in a broken, darkened world. There is a huge force field that opens when intention focuses and directs itself toward transformation." ~.John O'Donohue

[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

Years ago, I read this quote from Albert Schweitzer: "The only way out of today's misery to become worthy of each other's trust". This quote has meant different things to me over the years but it sure seems to apply today. We have very little trust in anything anymore. I'm not sure that any of us even trust ourselves to know who or what to trust. This is a crisis, a very severe crisis. When I was reading Rennie Davis' interview the other day, it really touched on this very same crisis about how we need to sincerely 'believe' and trust in positive changes and how our negative mindset keeps draining us of positive energy around the world. But how can we believe without seeming like fools? It just seems so ugly out there, you know? I love listening to John. He has some pretty good videos on youtube. I'm glad that you have been touched by his words. I know he would be extremely honored by your thoughtfulness.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Boy, he really nailed it out of the park in his writing. He nailed it. If somehow we could spread that good news of his far and wide, we the 99% could feel our collective strength and rise up nonviolently.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

" I had a dream". Oh, it would be so beautiful to see thousands of us together chanting, singing and showing the world just how much we care.
I was watching one of Chris Hedge's lectures yesterday and he talked about how the true patriots are the one's who do speak out, the ones who are willing to put their lives on the line for what is right.
A Quaker slogan: " Apathy is Evil".

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Hedges is spot on. He did so well on similar topic in this short interview on national news. Watch this when you have a chance. He really nails it and sets the interviewer straight:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAhHPIuTQ5k&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Wow. Wow. Wow. That John Donohue quote really nails it!!!!!!!!! Thanks so much for sharing that. I definitely plan to save that one and use it in the future in writings and also to remind myself to stay on track. Now you've really made my day. That captures it so well. Leaves me kind of speechless.

Will check out the link you provided this evening :)

[-] 2 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

The sun rises everyday and with it all is forgiven. We must leave room for this in everyones life. No sense giving baggage on what we complain of. Let us remember to rejoice in lightening the load of any willing to let er go. Let us enjoy with them this world so beautiful especially joyful in those precious moments when someone reaches out for that first terrified moment and let us welcome to the loving world we all feel in our hearts. Group hugs shall include the so-called 1%.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

We are the 100%.

[-] 2 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

All One Lovin' you WE WE... America is a country based on equality. Let us begin now, refuse to be classified.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Yes, refuse to act out the roles assigned to us :)

[-] 1 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

Meaning race, class and life preferences. We are American (stop) and need no further descriptions. All should be treated the same Equality. This would be helpful in politics because once an election is over the party seizes to matter and the continuance of dems verses repub during process is unamerican and hinders the process intended.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

We're going to need some guardrails up like the 8 at this link to make that happen: http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/you-may-have-seen-this-list-of-8-practical-goals-b/ (just a start but you gotta start somewhere) :)

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

We need a revolution of the mind.

[-] 1 points by cell81 (29) 1 year ago

I have to admit to the profession of a collective that has parts. I wish to live it. Unfortunately, I think there are other forces or factors at play. Water goes through changes of states. There are different qualities to water, as a simple example. In the end, I do think things will have to separate from an entity, if it is found to harm that entity.This I wish to be the truth of the separation that we conduct within reality. It is not that we are distorting reality. We can choose to purify or corrupt it. In the end, I hope the Universe has the last say. Therising, thanks for your last comment on Austerity. I think we need to do more than just expose. Happy holidays, wish you the best for 2013

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Thanks. Same to you. My hope is that we can discover the power and the truth of unity and then LIVE it.

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Not sure what this means or how it relates.

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Can you explain further. I'm not following you. My experience is that anyone can awaken to the truth that they are not separate, awaken to the truth that they never have been separate and never will be, awaken to the truth that they are part of the dance of life? Think of the leaf, the drop of dew, the mouse, the deer, the sunshine and the interconnected dance of life that goes on in one square mile of forest, in the entire world. . . Who are we to dare think that we are somehow separate from that dance and in a position to exploit, use, oppress and feed our ego? Who the fuck do we think we are?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21302) 1 year ago

Yes, therising, the root cause is our own humanity. The answers are all right there inside ourselves. Very well said.

Peace to you and Merry Christmas.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

All the best to you too. Cheers :)

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Incredible post. Perhaps we could expand on a few of the thoughts into other posts?

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Go for it. Just let us know here on this post what the titles and links are so we can check them out.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26697) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Good Post to start a new age with.

Really like Gillian's follow-up comment as well.

Yes - we need to see the world in a new "LIGHT" - We need to see Each Other in a new light.

All things good in life - really good - warms expands our spirit.

Unconditional Love - such as one experiences from a new born. It is a wonder a pure joy.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Right on. That innocent viewpoint is always at our fingertips if we take time to grow still and let our minds settle like a jar of muddy water. :)

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26697) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

That is why children renew us. They help us remember seeing the world without filters - all of the wonder that is life.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Great point. Kids, community connections, dogs, cats all seem to reconnect us with our true selves. Very refreshing :)

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26697) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

So true - love expressed freely - purely - feeds our spirit - makes us stronger - better.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Yes. Brings us back to our best selves and inspires us to make the world a better place for those who follow :)

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26697) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

If not for us ( the adults(?) ) then definitely for the children and for their children. We must make a better world for all of the children yet to come.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Right on. Let's take all the raw energy that comes from all the injustice, suffering and frustration and alchemize it into positive direct nonviolent action of all kinds!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26697) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Pointing at the heart of many ills/injustices/crimes of the world = GREED.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

It seems as if direct nonviolent action is the best way to bring this injustice out into the light. The contrast of peaceful protesters and the actions of those who corralled them really brings out what's going on here. King and Gandhi and many others have used this across the world with great success.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26697) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Agree

Peaceful/legal protest and actions. They speak truth and demonstrate no threat to anyone.

An effective and peaceful action was defeating some insane assholes in the last election. HOPEFULLY to be CONTINUED in the next Election.

Boener Can't-or Bitch and company sure are asking to be retired.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

It's incredible what congress has come to. Would the founders even recognize it with the incredible corporate takeover that's gone on? Can't wait for Americans to join together and nonviolently unseat the hijackers.

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

You left out something.

http://tinypic.com/r/1zlzlnp/6

It's an absolute of mental proportions concerning our unconscious existence. Keep this in mind when you use, or your brain is being used.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Fascinating point and interesting graphic. Thought provoking.. And I suppose that we are, many of us, unconscious even while we're walking around during the day :)

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

We are 86% unconscious in waking state. AND, that easily could be 100% unconscious for 14 minutes out of 100.

Do you think any in science or psychology keep this factor in mind?

If they don't, is it good science, or bad science? What about medicine?

Are you gonna' let them collect their pay with their degrees and certificates while NOT recognizing this?

What about law enforcement? Gonna let them arrest, beat and shoot people without recognition of this?

What about the US gov? Gonna let them bomb families without recognizing this?

Not me. I'm looking for citizens that can use reason and facts to protect our futures from unconscious behaviors.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Interesting.

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

The implications of unconscious behavior are literally a matrix of instinctual responses. Responses are like decisions. Our survival and evolution can depend on them.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I was thinking you were advocating for us to be more conscious and present in our waking hours. That seems to be the most important thing. I don't think we're very present as a rule during the 16 hours a day we're awake. If we calm down, let iur minds settle like a jar if muddy water and we become more present during those hours, we'll be able see the connections, the delicate and beautiful interdependence of the world we live in. Instead of isolated parts and me against them, we'll see and be conscious of a web of interrelationships. This is exactly what scientists are discovering with particle physics. The only way to define particles at the subatomic level is by seeing their relationship with other particles. A web of relationships. Think about trees, plants, forests, insects, sunlight, rain... Think about the web of relationships and interconnections. Think about the interdependence. What makes us so silly to think we aren't a part of that dance?

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Awareness of the resolve of intentions in a "matrix of instinctual responses" makes us "more conscious and present in our waking hours".

Constitutional intent is parallel to our instincts, utilizing conscious waking hours with that intent engages the resolve of survival, or continuity of species. With constitutional intent engaged a generational agreement of freedom is also present, causing unifications by reduction of fears with understanding.

As citizens realize they are re founding, with absolute propriety, the principles of the republic in order to conduct Article V faithfully to its interpretations "of and for the people" with equal protection of law, is the most important thing because of unity that is evolved, or, "more conscious and present in our waking hours"

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I don't understand really what article V is about or how it relates to the original post. Could you please explain?

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Change is implicit in the original post.

therising wrote: "Once we recognize that we are" inextricably linked", another world is truly possible."

Article V is the legal process and method which has the authority to create that kind of change.

I have a saying: Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing all the things we need to do?

There are a number of things our nation ends up doing that it does not want to do. In order to stop, a certain level of authority is required. Therein is Article V.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Can you provide a specific example of what it would do? What current specific problem would it resolve?

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

The thing we do most, we don't want to do is war. With Article V, we can stop war. We can completely address the infiltrations and abuses which create many problems. The military industrial complex and unconstitutional WTO treaties like GATT and NAFTA can be rescinded.

Those few thing actually address a large number of issues with diplomacy and environment.

Of the Preparatory Amendments, 1) ending the abridging of free speech will have a widespread impact on many issues. Suddenly Americans will get regular doses of truth enmasse.

After the preparatory amendments, and a general Article begins, the capacity for citizen to use free speech effectively will cause an end to apathy because an informed democracy is hard to manipulate. At that point a very specific and difficult problem could be well dealt with. Corporate personhood.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Protecting free speech, ending corporate personhood, curbing war profit incentive and reducing corporate dominance and manipulation of our economy, our political environment and our personal outlook are all great goals.

But how on earth would this article V you speak of address any of those? Can use examples from the list I just gave in that last paragraph?

My supposition in this post, of course, is that there's a deeper root problem that we should be working on as we pursue goals like the ones on the list from above paragraph.

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Protecting free speech

With that issue #1, within preparatory amendment, before the convention begins, America will have experienced a wake up call. Therein will be a resolve that will never allow free speech to be abridged as it has. There is a chicken & egg situation resolved by Americans agreeing upon preparatory amendment as a requirement for delegates to accept before gaining public support. I believe revision of the 1st amendment is the best way to end the abridging of free speech. In that, it can be shown to be necessary and constitutional to define a few prime principals that support constitutional intent within our society. Not all speech is equal. America needs a way to tell the difference. When it does, it can justify support for the best, most constitutional.

ending corporate personhood This will have to wait until the general Article V convention after preparatory amendments have had their intended effect and the nation has been made constitutional enough to conduct Article V properly. It is of course logically absurd to designate a group of people joined legally by a piece a paper, a person, so this is not as hard as it seems. What free speech will deliver is the capacity to define which corporations will gain priviliage to supplant rights they lost, and in that, the populations create a healthy partnership with the corporate world. Corporations will be subserviant just like the government, but it needs assurance that effort applied over generations or lifetimes will not be destroyed by amendment that designates corporate legal status. An America with free speech can properly structure its control to observe reasonably how all corporations should interact with people and the environment in society so that all benefit. This needs to be given time to mature and be done well.

curbing war profit incentive There is an infiltration of the US government. Once that is ended and effects reversed, collusion creating global profit networks will not be able to operate under quasi secret auspice having some official shielding. Exporting weapons could end up being unconstitutional, we'll have to deliberate as a people AFTER we become more constitutional through Article V.

reducing corporate dominance Basically decentralization. This is a big evolutionary step where corporations adapt to our needs of sustainability. Corporations are dominate because they meet our needs and we are relinquishing our independence empowering their dominance. Reducing corporate dominance is really EDUCATION and development of decentralized lifestyles empowered by smart corporations that follow our lead and develop technologies that do not operate centrally then help us to master the technology locally.

manipulation of our economy This issue, the federal reserve, fiat money, are certainly in the same basket with corporate personhood and will require very coherent, specific, comprehensive amendment to correct permanently. The implications are global but Americans using constitutional intent can gain cooperation from the world that would surprise many of us. After citizens master congress and the courts with preparatory amendment, then Article V can start working on those 2 conjoined matters.

political environment Preparatory amendment completely revises the political environment.

1)End the abridging of free speech-mas media must accomodate truth America needs and place it in a front & center position.

2)Campaign finance reform-Probably contributions will be made to a fund that is equally divided between candidates. I cannot see that with corporate lobbies etc. $, that the intent of creating the most constitutional America could succeed.

3)Secure the vote-The diebold issue CAN be resolved and checked, proven, tested and perfected to become secure for demcracy.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Wondered what happened to the League of women voters. They seemed so organized and influencial in the 70s. Also wondered if there was any change of a referendum/national vote on any OWS issues ... would be faster than Article V, I'm guessing.

[-] 2 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

The League seems to have been co-opted by politics as usual. Not partisanism, but more geared to politics swinging on mainstream media deception.

At the NYCGA last year no one would make Article V a demand. Which gave up the best tool to meet demands that exists.

If activists can focus on the functionality of Preparatory Amendment eventually the futile aspects of corporately controlled politics, will become more evidence when the power of being constitutional is understood.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Yet another fantastic response. Again, I need to spend more time reviewing in detail so I can understand and ask additional questions. For now, a sincere thank you for your response! Cheers!!

[-] 1 points by FawkesNews (1290) 1 year ago

Free speech may have been reduced to talking to yourself while wearing a Bluetooth headset that is not actually on, all the while looking important while doing so.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

That image is funny and sad all at the same time.

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Corporate executives do that AFTER they get the new job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XGJq8wrw5I

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

This morning I had to visit a local Walgreen's for a bottle of vinegar. I wasn't in the store more than ten seconds before I heard a very loud announcement on the store speakers: " Sales associates, your word of the day is ' tie-in sales'. " I was stunned! I expected something like, ' Friendly, caring, helpful". I almost burst out laughing at the blatant transparency of their under-handed sales practices. I could not believe that this was being announced with customers in the store!!! Usually these types of things are discussed in private meetings. I looked up at the cashier and asked her if he said what I just thought he said. She looked rather apathetic and mumbled something about selling candy. I asked her if she thought it was appropriate for him to announce that and she said, ' I don't know' in sort a tired tone. The girl seemed so fed that she didn't care, didn't even bother to question anything- she was unconscious. She has been made to believe that she is a powerless and mindless entity at her job. The man who made the announcement finally came out from behind his microphone and he was such an unfriendly chap. He also never even tried to sell me any candy...doesn't he follow his own word of the day? hahahaha

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

LOL. That is hilarious. And so bizarre that they would be so transparent. They need to pick more innocuous code words :).

I think this is a sign that those propagating the consumer mind state don't even really care that much anymore. That is the Achilles heel of the approach of corporatists and 1% perhaps. They have no way to inspire their troops. Their slogans are empty and hollow. I think only things with heart win out.

The blinding fluorescent lights in those places really zap your energy. No wonder those workers are tired.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

I had the same thoughts as you and you articulated them so well.

I almost said something to the mic man but he was such a grumpy, mean man that I felt sorry for him. He must live a pretty miserable life so there's no need for me to wish anything worse for him. hahahah I probably should have gone up to the mic and made a happier announcement like, ' Word of the day folks is JOY!'

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

That is a FANTASTIC idea!!!!!!!!! We should all do that in every store with flourescent lights and a mic. "All associates. The word of the day is Joy." Incidentally, I'm told that if you pick up any phone in a walmart and dial #96, you'll be speaking to the whole store.

Just kidding of course.

[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

WHy not a Joy flash mob? Flash mobs seem to be fairly popular and I've not seen anyone get arrested yet although I'd love to write home that I'm in Jail for perpetuating Joy of all things! hahahah

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Exclent idea! That's something you'd be proud to tell future generations about :)

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26697) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

LOL - Mr. Friendly was probably following instructions he just received from his "computer screen supervisor" ( and they forgot to tell him to smile to help sell the message ).

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

That corporate stuff is so absurd :)

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26697) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Damn talk about micromanagement - then they go and do something highly illegal on a massive scale and claim they had no idea what was going on.

[-] 1 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

The goals are very noble. Paradoxically, the first step, within the context of OWS, is to recognize the 1% as part of the whole, a part of the solution. That is the tough sell. It is overly simplistic to presume that the 1% is in a complete state of social disconnect. Just as it would be overly simplistic to assume that much of the "99%" are nothing but unmotivated moochers. There is a spectrum, in both groups. The 99% have very hard, intelligent workers. The 1% have, in a simplistic statement, the capital and the skills that pushed many of them to the 1%. They can work together, under the new premise that money isn't evil, that profit is a noble goal. Could it be, apart from greed, that the 1% is circling their wagons against what they perceive to be an ingnorant mob? The 1% and the 99% need each other.
The class warfare mentality that many express needs to be erased.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

The 1% could be part of the solution. Instead they have chosen to break the social contract by which the world's people have allowed their accumulation of wealth, and that contract is the rule of law.

Over the last thirty years the rich have forsaken all social responsibility and become open and unabashed preditors upon the people. If the rich want to be taken seriously as part of the solution they must clean house. They must see that the criminal rich are prosecuted and restitution is made to all the people who's futures they have stolen. It's all very nice talking about being part of the solution, but the 1% are in a unique position to act. That action remains to be seen.

What is more important: wealth, ethics, or planetary survival? That is the question that must now be asked by the ultra-rich, who could live well in perpetutiy on 1/1000the of their holdings.

What therising is saying is true - we need a universal awakening to our own interconnectedness - all of us. The destruction of the rule of law takes us in an intirely different direction, one that in the end threatens the 1% more than anyone. If they don't even see this clearly, then certainly they don't deserve control over the planet's resources.

We must have a reestablishment of the rule of law that applies equally to everyone. There are steps the 1% can take to show us they are serious. They aren't taking them.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Off topic, wondered if you would like this Video, looks like part of a series. Better made than most I grew up with ...Taos, Zumi Pueblo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN_IpOFml64&list=UUXH52W-CaiCrtYkJRKqUaQA&index=26

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I agree with not all but much of what you said here. We really need to be thinking about the 100%. In doing so, we can't let the 1% who are being selfish off the hook and we need to nurture kindness and compassion (as Martin King would have) among the 99% so people don't undermine the cause by endeavoring to "eat the rich". I'm afraid though that the words class warfare of been cleverly twisted as an underhanded retort to any criticism of the 1%, a catch all they use to escape any responsibility.

In general, I do agree with much of what you said here. Incidentally, I've generally tried to raise this point every few months about the 100% and it is. Tough sell. Love is more powerful than hate though as no violence is more powerful than violence.

Note: I edited this post for clarity. I hope it reads better now.

[-] 1 points by ChemLady (576) 1 year ago

You're looking for something impossible to achieve. We are all human beings, but the beliefs we hold and refuse to let go of will alway separate us. Religious beliefs and political ones, once you get into specifics, will always separate people, as long as they are permitted individual thought. If we all thought alike we would no longer be human.

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

It doesn't have to be this way. We don't have to choose between individualism and community. We can have both. We don't have to keep clinging to this cage. The door is unlocked and open. We can walk right out into a much larger world.

[-] 1 points by ChemLady (576) 1 year ago

I don't see it as a choice between individualism and community. You offer an answer and it would work if everyone decided to give up their religious or political hates and prejudices and adopt your world view. Unfortunately the people that have those beliefs think they possess the ultimate truth, not you.

I agree, we don't have to be this way, but each of us feels we are right in our world view and firmly believes that if all the others would just agree to believe like we do then things would be all right.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Look at it a different way for a moment. We all cling to things. But eventually we let go of our illusions, like it or not. You seem to like the idea, but you presuppose people wouldn't be able to wake up to a new view. But people are waking up all over the world as we speak. It's happening.

[-] 2 points by ChemLady (576) 1 year ago

In each of us are beliefs developed from our own unique experience and development. I can't see the Evangelical Christians or Muslims coming to the realization that homosexuality is just how some people are and should be tolerated. I don't see conservatives waking up agreeing to tax more and to fully support social programs.

I see the individuals in those groups believing that you or I should wake up and see things as they do. You are certain it's they that have the illusion, but they think it's you that is the deluded one. There may be more people thinking as you do, maybe some day you'll convert everyone. It's just as possible many of those with opposing belief systems will harden their position.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Eager for your thoughts on item below.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying because in not saying it well. I think all of us humans are prone to being delusional in that dualistic thinking is an easy trap to fall into (the notion that I am not connected to others so I must struggle against them, the notion that things are happening to me that I can't control and I play no role in, the notion that I am ok even if someone across town is suffering, the notion that "there's nothing we can do" (nihilism). You are talking about surface political and religious positions -- which Inagree are important to pay attention to. But I'm suggesting we look deeper than that, or a root cause and a root solution. The economic, religious, political and social struggles we are engaged in are not separate isolated unrelated things that are happening to us. There is an underlying issue that is causing all this surface strife. Each mystical tradition that is the basis for major religions by the way (including Christianity) begins with this notion. Just because it's been bastardized here or elsewhere in one religion or another as it morphed into a power grab doesn't make the original mystical foundations any less true.

There is a root cause to our problems and a root solution. It's not a Muslim thing or annAmerican thing or a blue state red state thing or a gun but peacenik thing. It's a human thing that all those groups, all of us humans including myself fall into all the time. But many across the political, religious and geographic spectrum are waking up to this all over the world.

[-] 2 points by ChemLady (576) 1 year ago

Who knows you may turn out to be right. I see human beings more as having what I call rings of caring. One's self at the center, then close family, friends, people they know, and so on. With less concern for people as you move further from self. I see it as our nature. In some ways it's necessary, it's why the death of a stranger isn't as debilitating as that of one's spouse or child.

In other words the root cause of our problems is our very nature. We can, with effort suppress our self centered nature, but it is not our natural state. I have little hope a large enough portion of the population will ever do so consistently to the degree needed for a better world.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I hear what you're saying. But I think we actually have no choice but to wake up to compassion, kindness and unity. I feel that is our natural state and, like Dostevsky said, someday we will look back in disbelief that we lived in such darkness:

Dostoevsky wrote the following in the Brothers Karamazov (all of the following paragraphs are Dostoevsky):

"Today, everyone asserts his own personality and strives to live a full life as an individual. But these efforts lead not to a full life but to suicide, because instead of realizing his personality, man only slips into total isolation. For in our age, man has been broken up into self-contained individuals, each of whom retreats into his lair, trying to stay away from the rest, hiding himself and his belongings from the rest of mankind, and finally isolating himself from people and people from him.

And while he accumulates material wealth in his isolation, he thinks with satisfaction how mighty and secure he has become, because he is mad and cannot see that the more goods he accumulates, the deeper he sinks into suicidal impotence. The reason for this is that he has become accustomed to relying only on himself; he has split off from the whole and become an isolated unit; he has trained his soul not to rely on human help, not to believe in man and mankind, and only to worry that the wealth and privileges he has accumulated may get lost.

Everywhere men today are turning scornfully away from the truth that the security of the individual cannot be achieved by his isolated efforts but only by mankind as a whole.

BUT AN END to this fearful isolation is bound to come and all men will understand how unnatural it was for them to have isolated themselves from one another. This will be the spirit of the new era and people will look in amazement at the past when they sat in darkness and refused to see the light. . . . . . Until that day, we must keep hope alive, and now and then a man must set an example, even if only an isolated one, by trying to lift his soul out of its isolation and offering it up in an act of brotherly communion, even if he is taken for one of God's fools.

This is necessary to keep the great idea alive."

Albert Einstein said this:

“A human being is part of a whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.”

[-] 2 points by ChemLady (576) 1 year ago

It all sounds nice but I believe you are chasing an illusion. It isn't in the interest of the individual to be a conscientious member of a large unified community. There is another line of thinking, I don't remember what this argument is called but i do know it has been a line of thought for quite a long time. Essentially it states the following. It is actually best for any individual if everyone else acts morally and the individual works for himself, his best interest alone. He gets the advantage of being selfish while surrounded by altruistic individuals working for the betterment of the larger community.

It explains why socialist systems fail. Not because they are poorly thought out, but because each individual sees it to his best advantage to let everyone else be working for society while the individual takes care of himself.

I would grant that it may be possible to work against the way we have evolved. The bigger problem is, unless you can get everyone to experience this awakening those that remain self centered will be like a chronic infection. Their personal success spreading the notion that being part of the whole is for fools. I would say the 1% are envied by at least as many people as they are despised.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Well, you raise an important point for discussion. The fact is that the 1% are just as harmed by our current arrangement as the 99% are. It's just that the 1% has bigger toys, more shiny objects. The 1% and some in the 99% are distracted by those shiny objects, feel that somehow they can somehow escape death and escape their loneliness and fear by collecting and coveting enough shiny objects. Those of us who have spent time with very successful folks know that these people are not only no happier than the average person...but they are sometimes even less happy because they are even more immersed in the delusion of materialism than those of us who have much much less. The richest among us think that the game might actually work for them whereas we regular folks (and especially the poor) know full well that happiness and permanence does not come from shiny objects. Many with very little have found deep peace and contentment and, in some ways (certainly not all but some), they are the lucky ones because they don't even have a chance to go down the materialistic shiny object road for years and years.

Most of the really rich folks get into their 60's, 70's and 80's and realize there is something entirely different they could have been devoting time to instead of getting more more more for themselves and their immediate family. They begin to realize that the greatest joy is helping to lift others, lift community. I actually know two very wealthy individuals (one of them quite well)-- they're not just in the top 1%, they're in the top .01% -- and they both are going through the process I just described. They're waking up.

They aren't the enemy. The system without guardrails is the real problem here out in the world and it has the 1% in its grip as cogs in the wheel of materialism just as much as it has the 99% in its grip, if not more so. What I am suggesting is that we should continue to hit on all fronts to change this system, put up guardrails, whatever it takes but I think at the same time we need to be working on a deeper level to help ourselves and others wake up the way my two billionaire friends are. We should take their example and learn from it. They are lucky enough to have gone ALL the way down the materialism road to find it a dead end. They are hiking back that path and telling us, no use going that way. We should listen.

The truth is that numerous studies have shown that when you bring someone who is cold and hungry an penniless in from the cold and feed them some warm soup, they get immensely happier. They get a little bit happier still if they can find a steady semi reliable means to get food, shelter and clothing. After that, the economics of it add little. According to the studies done on this type of thing, people who go from basic reliable food shelter and clothing to larger homes with fancier food and clothes are not any happier. And people who go much much further and own 100's of times more than the basics or 1,000's of times more than they need are often actually less happy.

Humanity is waking up to this, the 1% and the 99%. The 99% in some ways are just waking up a bit sooner. It's happening more and more though. It's becoming a virtuous cycle :)

[-] 1 points by ChemLady (576) 1 year ago

All that may be true to some extent, but I seriously doubt anyone with money would prefer a middle class or poor life over a rich one. It's been said that money doesn't buy happiness, but poverty doesn't buy anything.

I've seen studies that claim money doesn't make you happy and some that state people with money are harrier then those without. What does seem to "buy" happiness is taking control of your money and life.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

The two billionaires I know both are spending more and more time in smaller houses, bungalows and small apartments. They're realizing less is more. They've been ALL the way down the "more and better" road and can report with authority that it is a dead end.

I don't think we can control our lives. We can let go of attachments and let our lives flow though. :)

[-] 1 points by ChemLady (576) 1 year ago

I'm glad they have found some happiness. Two individuals doesn't necessarily make a trend or prove anything though. We could also look at lottery winners. There are many who found the sudden riches a burden and it made their life worse. Others that kept their head and found more money gave them security and made their life better. Again no valid conclusion can be drawn from that.

The idea of money not buying happiness can easily be turned against the poor. All those foreclosures, cuts in hours, layoffs, just an attempt to make the common man happier.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

From New York Times - 7/7/12 - "Earning additional income will actually not lead to extra happiness, once you have already attained a “comfortable standard” where you have what you need to function and be content. The “comfortable standard” can be quite variable based on the city, state or country you live in. Here in the US, according to Dunn and Norton, the standard falls around $75,000. Researchers at Princeton examined Gallup poll data from nearly 500,000 US households and found that higher family incomes were related to better moods on a day to day basis. However, the positive effects of money had no effect on people’s happiness and moods after a level of $ 75,000.00 was attained.

Beyond a certain point it's just grasping, boredom and habit. A bit like eating fiber. It's good for you but more and more isn't better and better. It's not the ONLY thing that's good for you. Most of us live like that -- going after more and more fiber. Kind of insane but we do it and expect the early results to repeat. It only helps to a point and after that it's just useless or harmful.

The point of having shelter, food and clothing is so that we can put aside the rest of the materialistic life and get to what's real: love, family, art, music, community, creative outlets, charity and generally helping others (and not just those close to us).

Most of us get I the habit of going after more money but the positive results pretty much end at a certain point. We ought to move on to the important stuff. Corporations don't want us to though, hence the mega billion dollar advertising / marketing industry which infuses us with wants, transforming us from citizens to consumers. We should stop falling prey to their game.

[-] 1 points by ChemLady (576) 1 year ago

Most of us don't earn $75k a year and we develop that habit of chasing more. Those that do earn more may or may not come to see life your way. You may believe they will, I simply don't.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Religious, political, race, gender are some of the many lines that we draw to seperate others from us. "they are less than" But I think the greatest impediment today to people working together is the line the the 1% have drawn to seperate themselves.

They increasingly have created their own world in the stratosphere. It is most damaging because they have convinced themselves incorrectly that they can manage without the rest of us.

In addition they have demonized non upper class as lazy, sloths, dependent on govt (who only gets taxes from the hardworking upper class)

This existential threat must be overcome if we are to make progress in improving the lives of the 99%. Some cracks in the veneer have emerged recently with the "patriotic millionaires for the 99%", Many business leaders supporting progressive tax policy, Warren buffet (& other high profile billionaires) supporting the buffet rule.

I submit Occupies pressure on all pols has moved thedems to push for these necessary progressive policies (not enough) and made it obvious that the wealthy must start to rejoin the community in resolving (sharing sacrifice) the inequities that threat out civilization.

Stay strong, Look sharp. This effort will take years of hard work on the street, & in the voting both, We will experience setbacks & slow progress. And we will only succeed if we convince more (enough) wealthy to join us.

[-] 1 points by ChemLady (576) 1 year ago

Yes some wealthy people pay lip service to higher taxes, while they use every means possible to avoid paying them. Our problem runs deeper, it isn't simply the 1%. It's also a problem that there is no unity within the 99%. A good portion of that economic group continues to support a conservative agenda.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

You are 100% correct. But they are slowly realizing that their best interests are not being served by their political leaders. They are turning. We are growing. If we stay strong, and continue this effort we will continue growing and making slow progress.

Keep your eyes on the prize.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Pls see link. This really really really pisses me off -- see the two news stories here http://occupywallst.org/forum/no-fucking-way-are-we-going-to-let-this-happen/

[-] 0 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Here's U2's version of what I just said in this post:

See the world in green and blue See China right in front of you See the canyons broken by cloud See the tuna fleets clearing the sea out See the Bedouin fires at night See the oil fields at first light And see the bird with a leaf in her mouth After the flood all the colors came out

It's a beautiful day Don't let it get away Beautiful day

Touch me Take me to that other place Reach me I know I'm not a hopeless case

What you don't have you don't need it now What you don't know you can feel it somehow What you don't have you don't need it now

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

U2 rules. We can trust them. Great reference.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Fuck consumerism. A hundred years from now it will be looked back on as humanity's "momentary" wrong turn down a dark dead end alley. Another world is possible. As soon as we realize we can have it. What's the saying? Free your mind. . . And the rest will follow :)

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26697) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Further - FUCK THE CONCEPT OF A DISPOSABLE SOCIETY.

End the perpetual and growing problem of waste - people - the disposable society ( buy and toss buy and toss ) has led to a current thinking by those in power of sacrifice zones ( environmental disaster areas ) and now in extension a disposable population. People - do you see the government working to help those in need in this country(?) or a growing effort to toss the needy out on the street?

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Invest in one of these.

Twenty year warranty, made in Sweden.

Katadyn Pocket Microfilter Water Purifier 8013618 - Endurance Series

There is an effort to control the last of our necessities, and profit from it.

This item will give you the ability to at least control this basic human right.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26697) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Interesting. I'll have to look into that. I suppose just google katadyn?

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Every good camping goods store will carry them.

They are the best of the best. Ebay has them, tho better price on amazon.

Cheaper models of the same brand available, but that one is the twenty year variety.

Where could I get spares if things go pear-shaped?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26697) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Might want to consider having more then one - Hey?

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

They have a 13000 gallon capacity, so I reckon one will see me out. {:-)#

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&clk_rvr_id=432640027731&item=271108568633

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26697) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

LOL - always consider redundancy - especially on critical systems. {:-])

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I did a few days of utoob watching of all the filters there are, but decided on this one, primarily because it can be cleaned repeatedly, so no redundancy.

It removes everything. Worth the money.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26697) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Good for fracked-up water?

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Anything down to 0.2 microns gets filtered.

Radiation will probably get through, but any kind of virus will not.

I don't like that our water supply sits open to the sky. The gov could poison us and blame it on Bin Hiding.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26697) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Wouldn't want to try living through a nuclear winter.

Hope these fracking assholes stay away from the Yellowstone caldera. Pop That baby and it would be just as bad as a nuclear winter - only without the radiation.


[-] 2 points by Builder (3798) 0 minutes ago

Protozoa are tiny. They get filtered.

Good enough for me. Fracking pollution is likely to be rather more on a macro scale, so yes, the filter will work on them too.

If it gets down to total nuclear winter, the ice will be irradiated, as well as the air, so a filter on drinking water will be a pointless exercise, for mine. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26697) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Sad to have to consider such a thing - what a world. I wonder how minute fracking poisons are in size - I mean being dissolved/liquid and all ?

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Protozoa are tiny. They get filtered.

Good enough for me. Fracking pollution is likely to be rather more on a macro scale, so yes, the filter will work on them too.

If it gets down to total nuclear winter, the ice will be irradiated, as well as the air, so a filter on drinking water will be a pointless exercise, for mine.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26697) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Cool - always best to have something that can be torn down for regular maint.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I just about got my kit together now.

Tested the sleeping gear last night in a helluva storm. Tent is a winner.

Bag might be too warm, but can't complain about that.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26697) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

LOL - I guess I should have considered better care and maintenance along the way - Hey? Well at least one is still firing. G-Day.


[-] 2 points by Builder (3798) 0 minutes ago

Nite DKA.

Look after that synapse. LOL ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26697) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Nope too warm is not a bad thing - can always toss off the cover to cool down. Anyway thanks for the water tip. I gotta fall over now - nasty head cold attacked in the middle of last night - gotta get some rest for my poor aching synapse ( yes - singular {:-]) ).

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Nite DKA.

Look after that synapse. LOL

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Hallelujah, here she comes.

Gonna takes years to kick that habit.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

They say it takes 7 weeks to form a new habit if you work on it every day :)

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

The consumerism habit is gonna take generations to break.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I know. I was just kidding. But maybe we won't have any choice to drop the habit if there's no money to buy things.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

we saw it ever so slightly when the crash came 4 years ago.

But as is the case with war and the rights violations we've allowed the 1st thing that must be dealt with is the propaganda.

All the ads (propaganda) telling us we are nothing without the latest product, cars houses, jewelry, gadgets must be replaced with education of what is true value. Giving back, helping others, improving the lives of everyone together.

Sounds crazy, but those notions must replace the current propaganda that encourages us to compete with each other in consumerism.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Man, ain't that the truth.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Truth yes, but difficult to accomplish.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Let's set our mind to it, encourage others to do the same and break free of this narrow view of this big beautiful world, this big beautiful life.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Changing that dialogue nationally does not appear to be a major focus. But even though it will meet much derision and ignorance, we must start.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I think direct nonviolent action in the form of flash mob slow downs, street theater, blockades at malls/ports/giant banks, strikes, walk outs, sit ins etc etc etc etc etc. It's time!

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

excellent. That would get some attention/coverage.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I think this type of thing is the secret to our future success: http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-dont-see-the-power-we-have-in-our-hands-to-tran/

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Religious, political, race, gender are some of the many lines that we draw to seperate others from us. "they are less than" But I think the greatest impediment today to people working together is the line the the 1% have drawn to seperate themselves.

They increasingly have created their own world in the stratosphere. It is most damaging because they have convinced themselves incorrectly that they can manage without the rest of us.

In addition they have demonized non upper class as lazy, sloths, dependent on govt (who only gets taxes from the hardworking upper class)

This existential threat must be overcome if we are to make progress in improving the lives of the 99%. Some cracks in the veneer have emerged recently with the "patriotic millionaires for the 99%", Many business leaders supporting progressive tax policy, Warren buffet (& other high profile billionaires) supporting the buffet rule.

I submit Occupies pressure on all pols has moved thedems to push for these necessary progressive policies (not enough) and made it obvious that the wealthy must start to rejoin the community in resolving (sharing sacrifice) the inequities that threat out civilization.

Stay strong, Look sharp. This effort will take years of hard work on the street, & in the voting both, We will experience setbacks & slow progress. And we will only succeed if we convince more (enough) wealthy to join us.

[-] 2 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

Everything can change on New Years day. Unless you are them you know not of what or why. All are One and regardless of human perception and reasons (that are not even real)We shall remain as exactly One and should start working from that reality for there is no escape.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Ok. Sounds deep. Good luck in all your good efforts.

[-] 2 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

Tell me. My efforts are not a concern the killing of innocents and destruction in the name of this country are what needs to be tended. I am alive and free(not dead or for sale)by the grace of God or them would have had me out long ago.Thank you for kindness...

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Your welcome.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Hell yes to everything you said here. I completely agree. I think you really summed up well what we need to do and expect. My hope is that along the way, we don't lose ourselves and true aim as we struggle. It would be (and is) easy to get bitter and feel overwhelmed and agree, especially when faced with fellow citizens suffering. I hope we can channel that raw energy that starts as anger into productive action. I think that's the way we can stay strong and stay at this for the long haul. As you point out, it's going to be a long haul :)

All I can tell you is that I'm feeling more upbeat than ever about our chances of turning this thing around. Everywhere I go, I keep running into more and more people who are totally awake to the economic, social and inner mindset solutions that will be necessary. People are getting it. And more importantly, I meet more and more people who have discovered that we can push like hell with joy (that eats problems for lunch over time (instead of with anger which only eats US).

I want us to engage in this direct action (which you may have seen before) with love in our hearts: http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/you-may-have-seen-this-list-of-8-practical-goals-b/ . Obviously need all sorts of smaller efforts first and many much larger and more important actions would follow.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I also see more and more support for the progressive solutions Occupy trumpets. And I also see the opposition (tea party/repub party) in disarray, they have been smoked by the more popular progressive approach that Occupy pushes.the direction of the country.

All with non violent direct action.

Occupy the world.

Even though we have stayed out of direct politics, we HVE influenced the national discussion, the agenda of one of the 2 parties, and the momentum of political ideology.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Absolutely. I completely agree.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

We have the momentum. the opposition is split and self destructing.

We must wratchet up our activity.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Absolutely. This is the time to double our efforts on all fronts and stay strong and firm. Nonviolent direct action, writings, blockades, sit ins, walk outs, individual strikes, general strikes, street theater, marches and other creative actions of all kinds will continue and energize the virtuous cycle. Despite all the hardship and struggle, this is also going to be fun.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Fun & rewarding.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Damn right. After such a long spell of watching corporations gobble up the physical landscape and the mental landscape of our country, it will be so gratifying to see the situation reverse. We really will need to comfort the 1% along the way in all seriousness. Otherwise they're clumsy struggling and flailing could work whole a lot of people on the ground. Once the virtuous cycle really starts to roll, we probably need, the millions of us working on this, to engage in some kind of good cop bad cop scenario adhering strictly to nonviolence and doing everything we can to create a soft landing for all 100% of us.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

We must embrace all wealthy who have already come around (patriotic millionaires for the 99%, Buffet/Gates & those 1%'rs supporting the Buffet rule. any corp that brings jobs back (Apple), or sells comp to workers, Or pays a living wage, Best Buy, Costco)

There are many 1%'rs doing the right thing. We must lift them up as a way to invite more to join us.

And we must remind the wealthy we want to help the 99% not hurt the 1%. We aren't against the 1%. We are against greed, and unfair advantage for the 1%. We are FOR fairness, equity, sharing the wealth.

And we must remind the 1% that even they will be better off if we all are better off.

A rising tide lifts all boats.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Completely agree. That's a very important point and one we haven't heard often enough here in my view.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

A progressive approach have more supporters amongst even upper class people. As people are informed they will change.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

You know what? The more thought I gave this, the more this made sense the way you put it. This is something 100% of the people can support because 100% of the people benefit!

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

We must convince more wealthy people that the right approach is getting more money into the hands of the middles/working class, & getting the poor into the middle class.

if we do we WILL easily adopt the necessary progressive policies. Once implemented, we will experience economic growth & recovery that WILL benefit even the wealthy as well.

Of course! As soon as those wealthy see/sense money amongst the working/middle class they're natural money sucking mechanism kicks in.

Unavoidable. Natural flow of money.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

There's no questions that there are better ways for us to organize this and fulfill the democratic dream of freedom contemplated by our founders. And there's no question that there's huge support for a change among a good chunk of the population, even among the 1%. So, let's get rolling. The rest is all just hard work and details :)

[-] -1 points by queef (-69) 1 year ago

Blah, Blah Blah. Your talk too fucking much. Now get back to your mom's basement and Nintendo Wii

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Wow. You read the whole thing and that's all you could say? :) How about addressing the clear topic of the post?

[+] -4 points by RJHobbs (-58) 1 year ago

You didn't actually type all this crap out did ya?

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Yes, did you actually read it? :)

[-] -2 points by RJHobbs (-58) 1 year ago

I hope for your sake you save copies of your "writings." Because the passion will fade and it cannot be recreated.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

That's so odd that you would read that whole thing and that's all you can think to say. :)

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I suppose you are not upset about these two new news stories? http://occupywallst.org/forum/no-fucking-way-are-we-going-to-let-this-happen/

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Actually, I just edited the post for clarity. Please take a look and see if it reads better now. I'd be interested in your input.