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Forum Post: Nearly 30% of Americans advocate for an armed rebellion

Posted 1 year ago on May 5, 2013, 1:36 a.m. EST by itsmyblood (10)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Holy crap we are not all asleep.

Nearly one-third of Americans say an armed revolution might need to occur in the next few years to prevent an escalating war against constitutional liberties, a new study finds. Fairleigh Dickinson University’s PublicMind surveyed 863 US residents randomly in late April and found that 29 percent of those polled believe a revolution isn’t just imminent but imperative.

According to the study, 29 percent of Americans agree that “an armed revolution might be necessary in order to protect our liberties” during the next few years. Forty-seven percent said they disagreed with the statement entirely, with one-fifth of the sample saying they weren’t sure how to answer.

When quizzing only the most conservative of respondents, though, the call for revolution is supported by a much more significant chunk of the sample pool. PublicMind found that 44 percent of Republicans polled in the survey agree that an armed revolt is the answer to an apparent infringement of liberties. By comparison, 27 percent Independents agreed with the statement, as did only 18 percent of Democrats polled.

Pollsters say there is a reason for this inkling towards revolution, and it shouldn’t come as a surprise that it involves a constitutional right that has become increasingly more of a contested issue among members of Congress and regular citizens alike in recent month. At the heart of this issue, suggests PublicMind, is the gun control debate that has rekindled discussion of the Second Amendment since last year’s Aurora, Colorado and Sandy Hook, Connecticut shootings. According to the results of a second question asked during the study, 73 percent of Democrats say Congress needs new gun laws to protect Americans from gun violence, but 65 percent of Republicans are against any changes whatsoever to current legislation..

“If there was a bipartisan moment after Sandy Hook to pass gun control legislation, it’s past,” Fairleigh Dickinson professor of political science Dan Cassino writes in the report that accompanies the poll. “Partisan views have strongly re-asserted themselves, and there’s no sign that they’ll get any weaker.”

“The differences in views of gun legislation are really a function of differences in what people believe guns are for,” Cassino adds. “If you truly believe an armed revolution is possible in the near future, you need weapons and you’re going to be wary about government efforts to take them away.”

Earlier this week, RT covered a separate poll conducted recently by Fox News in which respondents were asked, “Would you be willing to give up some of your personal freedom in order to reduce the threat of terrorism?” The result of that survey when coupled with similar ones made during the last dozen years or so reveals that Americans are less willing now to part with personal freedoms in exchange for an added sense of security than they were after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.

“Whether or not the government overreacted in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 (and, given the information available at the time, reasonable people can disagree), Americans then broadly supported a vigorous domestic counterterrorism policy,” Alan Rozenshtein wrote for Lawfare Blog. “This time around, a rights-restrictive approach might not garner the same public support — if indeed that’s the road the government intends to go down.”

93 Comments

93 Comments


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[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34876) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Nearly 30% of Americans advocate for an armed rebellion.

Seems kind of a stretch - to draw that conclusion - from one limited poll (extremely limited ? ).

Fairleigh Dickinson University’s PublicMind surveyed 863 US residents randomly in late April and found that 29 percent of those polled believe a revolution isn’t just imminent but imperative.

Fairleigh Dickinson University’s Florham College in Madison, New Jersey

Would it not be more fair to say - that nearly 30% polled at Florham College in Madison, New Jersey seemed to advocate for ?

Or if the poll was of random people over the internet. Would it not be more fair to say - that nearly 30% polled - seemed to advocate for.......

But to jump to a conclusion that this represent 30% of all Americans - that is irresponsible.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

The mentally ill shouldn't have guns. Wanting guns is a mental illness. Therefore, Republicans shouldn't be able to buy guns.

[-] 0 points by Shule (1696) 1 year ago

' only hope the politicos will start getting the message, or else .......

[-] -1 points by RoccoXXX (8) 1 year ago

Some believe the US government is preparing...such as buying bullets. And some argue that this is a myth... http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/04/04/The-Great-DHS-Ammunition-Stockpile-Myth

My personal experience tells me something is not quite right. First I am a liberal and a gun owner. Purchased a fishing license a few weeks ago and told the clerk to toss in a box of 22LR on my bill. He said...they are out of 22 bullets in all sizes. Now I have been buying bullets all my life and the 22LR is as common as dirt. Its not something a sporting good store runs out of...but it did. I asked some friends of mine who shoot big bore rifles...they told me they are having problems getting ammo. BTW...I live in Idaho...usually the only thing more plentiful than potatoes here are bullets. I have no idea why the stores are out of ammo...but it certainly is unusual..

[-] -1 points by Narley (-628) 1 year ago

I’m also a liberal gun owner. It’s the same all over. Ammo is scarce everywhere. People started hoarding ammo when the gun restrictions talk started. In Texas there have been a few news stories about law enforcement not being able to find ammo. On one of my gum forums they give out daily ammo availability reports. When Walmart and sporting goods stores have ammo you can only buy a one box a day. They’re trying to keep people from buying everything in stock and not having anything left for other people.

Thus gun control talk spooked gun owners. Home re-loading is becoming popular. But now I hear brass is getting scarce.

I’d have thought this would have died down when people finally stocked up on ammo. But it’s been several months and ammo is still scare. I think it will eventually get back to normal.

[-] 0 points by RoccoXXX (8) 1 year ago

Thanks for your comment. I sort of thought this was the case. For anyone to believe that a "armed" rebellion is likely is simply not looking at the Chess Board. The next time around it will be "things that go bump in the night" which will restore government back to the people.

[-] 0 points by Narley (-628) 1 year ago

Yea, Armed insurrection talk is bullshit. Ain’t gonna happen. I’m a little puzzled why people are hoarding. I mean why buy up all the .22LR or .38 ammo? If a war starts it’ll be .223 and 9MM that will be used.

[-] 0 points by Shule (1696) 1 year ago

Na, They'll do us in with sarin gas.

[-] 0 points by Narley (-628) 1 year ago

Probably so, you never can tell with these folks.

[-] -1 points by shooz (17951) 1 year ago
[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34876) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Koch's would love to see an armed rebellion - Civil Rights - POOF - gone in an instant. Now ALEC my misbegotten offspring ( Koch's ) get busy and make it permanent - Heritage lend a hand. Chop chop

Halliburton - Oh Boy OH Boy ( jumping up and down and rubbing hands together ) - got to hurry and expand the Mercs division ......

Koch's and Halliburton - Damn life is good..........

[-] 0 points by shooz (17951) 1 year ago

It all plays out, kinda like this.

http://driftglass.blogspot.com/2013/05/before-its-too-late.html

they are making plans for 2014.

http://truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/item/17948-forget-cocaine-the-bigger-danger-to-america-is-snorting-crack-koch \

They even bought a new "non profit".

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2013/02/20/_our_goal_of_advancing_a_free_and_prosperous_america_is_even_more_difficult.html

It's so hard to be a billionaire, they have to buy whole States to be happy.

Destroying democracy, one State at a time.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34876) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

And speaking of the Devils : ( synchronicity ? )

Please show your support for the journalists and staff at the Los Angeles Times who are willing to quit their jobs if Charles and David Koch purchase the newspaper. Click here to sign the petition.

Amidst news that the Koch brothers are considering purchasing at least five major Tribune Company newspapers -- including the Los Angeles Times, Baltimore Sun, Chicago Tribune, Orlando Sentinel and Hartford Courant -- the staff at these organizations are starting to fight back.

Here is a case in point. Last week, at an in-house awards ceremony for Los Angeles Times staff, columnist Steve Lopez asked everyone in attendance, "Raise your hand if you would quit if the paper was bought by the Koch brothers." Fully half of the staff raised their hands.

Bravery like this might doom the sale of the newspaper to the Kochs before it begins. A mass staff exodus would be a crushing blow to any news organization, costing it big time in terms of reputation, audience and production capacity.

It isn't easy to threaten to quit your job, though, and so we need make it clear that we have the backs of journalists who refuse to become mouthpieces for Koch brother propaganda.

Please, click here to sign our petition supporting the journalists and staff at the Los Angeles Times who are willing to quit their jobs if Charles and David Koch purchase the newspaper.

Keep fighting, Rachel Colyer, Daily Kos

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (34876) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

It's so hard to be a billionaire, they have to buy whole States to be happy.

Now now - you are selling their ambitions/obsessions short - World - not states - states only reduce the hunger pains a little.

Americans for Prosperity - F'n Assholes and their mis-speak dis-speak - they forgot (?) to finish their name - Wealthy Elite Criminal Americans Out For Your Prosperity Hand It Over. Perhaps they shortened it to be easier to remember? AFP instead of WECAOFYPHIO. Hhmmmmm marketing.

[-] 0 points by shooz (17951) 1 year ago

Well, it's true that there aren't many States left that they don't already own, but those pesky "free market" unbelievers must be be negated somehow when they reappear in already owned States.

And then those those that expect OPEN markets!!!!!!

What's a billionaire oil baron to do.

Put all this clap trap about alternative energy to rest.

http://www.desmogblog.com/2013/05/03/koch-brothers-alec-attack-maine-renewable-energy-standards

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34876) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yeah - I mean who the hell needs clean energy when fossil fuel is providing so much to society?

Cancers

Asthma

Heart disease

etc

Mercury poisoning

Arsenic Poisoning

etc

Toxic ash dumps

Toxic Air

Toxic ground water

Toxic Oceans

Toxic Rivers

Toxic Lakes

Toxic land

Oh and not to forget - Global Warming with it's turbulent weather, storms, Heat, Drought, Flooding ..........................................

I guess that I should have been grateful and not Posted/Tweeted this again:

DKAtoday ‏@DKAtoday

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sddb0Khx0yA … Clean energy - The missing link. Please Consider/Share/Circulate 4 our Future. View media

[-] 1 points by shooz (17951) 1 year ago

All of those things have an incredibly high ROI.

Global Warming???

Pfffft.

It's the reason they bought Georgia Pacific.

That way the profit steam is protected from both directions

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34876) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Profit - is seriously becoming a curse word.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17951) 1 year ago

It's also why they backed the OP.

Better we start shooting each other than realize who is really behind almost all that troubles us.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34876) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

And Greed their driving insanity.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17951) 1 year ago

It's not greed, it's insane profits for the "investors".

"Investors", I might add who actually remove value, to increase their backriding profits..

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34876) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

it's insane profits for the "investors".

That is greed.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17951) 1 year ago

What??

Poor innocent brokers..........er.......investors!!!

They give some token amount back to your IRAs you know....................:)

Just don't ask them to pay their fair share on taxes.

They'll donate it all to a wonderful non-profit like ALEC.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34876) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

[-] 1 points by shooz (19594) 4 minutes ago

How much money do these guy filter to ALEC to help pave their way through the States?

http://www.banksterusa.org/content/it-aint-over-till-its-over-wall-street-gears-austerity-battles-2013 ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

"How much money do these guy filter to ALEC to help pave their way through the States?"

Good Question.

Considering the trillions of dollars hidden off-shore.

At a guess?

A fraction of a fraction of a penny on the dollar.

Still - I bet a penny from every dollar spent would still be quite a large sum of money.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34876) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

[-] 1 points by shooz (19594) 0 minutes ago

You didn't actually expect them to donate money to the poor??

There's no profit in that.

ALEC........THE charity for the rich and needy.

Tax deductible my friend, as if they were going to pay them anyway. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Charity? - HAH - I hope to see them get burned on that claim - SOON

It's an F'n CorpoRAT Business Lobbying/authoring/selling legislation that benefits them and undermines democracy the Constitution the People the Country the Environment the World!!!

[-] 1 points by shooz (17951) 1 year ago

How much money do these guy filter to ALEC to help pave their way through the States?

http://www.banksterusa.org/content/it-aint-over-till-its-over-wall-street-gears-austerity-battles-2013

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34876) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

[-] 1 points by shooz (19592) 0 minutes ago

Cheap at twice the price.

Buy some legislation today and help your profit margin in every way.

ALEC's new slogan?

Please remember ALEC is just an innocent non-profit, aiding the rich and needy. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

The rich & needy? Is that not the same thing according to ALEC/Koch ?

[-] 1 points by shooz (17951) 1 year ago

You didn't actually expect them to donate money to the poor??

There's no profit in that.

ALEC........THE charity for the rich and needy.

Tax deductible my friend, as if they were going to pay them anyway.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34876) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago
[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34876) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Running the program now - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=b6mihN9ehVI#!

Will likely be tweeting it after.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34876) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

[-] 1 points by shooz (19590) 6 minutes ago

Alec is just small change for most of them.

It's like dropping a dollar in a bucket at Christmas time.

If you have the time, this is worth it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=b6mihN9ehVI#! ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Even parting with small change is like considering to open a vein with a razor - To The Greedy.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17951) 1 year ago

Cheap at twice the price.

Buy some legislation today and help your profit margin in every way.

ALEC's new slogan?

Please remember ALEC is just an innocent non-profit, aiding the rich and needy.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34876) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Naw most likely they will just off-shore it - that is why the Koch's have to do the financing. The greedy bastards have a hard time working together. One of the few saving graces for society so far.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17951) 1 year ago

Alec is just small change for most of them.

It's like dropping a dollar in a bucket at Christmas time.

If you have the time, this is worth it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=b6mihN9ehVI#!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34876) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Damn - I did it again:

youtube.com/watch?v=Sddb0Khx0yA … Energy Storage & Distribution - Key to clean abundance? World Wide. Pls Consider/Share/Circulate 4 our Future.

[-] 1 points by Renneye (3300) 1 year ago

Niiice!!! One giant step closer!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34876) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

It . . ......Really really reallyrerererererereallyreally WOULD

[-] -1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

oh wow people are more awake than i thought. it seems that the revolution is imminent.

[-] 2 points by JPB950 (2254) 1 year ago

I don't think it's the revolution you want. It's the right wing gun owners that seem to believe in the possibility of armed revolution.

[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 1 year ago

Just another thing to take into consideration f they are the majority that think armed rebellion is necessary.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17951) 1 year ago

You mean the Koch's?????

[-] 4 points by gsw (2867) 1 year ago

Not just the leaders, kochs- it's all of them, the reality-denying truth bending, self interested, self absorbed, perfected elite worshipping, corporate cheering, right wing inhumane, anti-humane, unreflective, myopic, right leaning electorate.

Who favor armed rebellion over democracy.... They are the nut jobs of why the country and its people is so fucked up now! By which I mean they can't identify the real problems, And they believe

A right leaning media the think is a liberal media

A centrist president they think is a communist

And they buy the NRA worldview

And the Tea Party balony

And american exceptionalistic, bush swaggering

Ignoramuses, who believe rush limbaugh and Jeff beck channel jesus

[-] 4 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yes, and they value Ideology, Neoliberalism over people.

You and me value people over ideology, Individual Rights over Ideology, Human Rights over Ideology,... we value ideas. OWS values Ideas. We just value people over doctrine, propaganda, politics and Ideology. Workers Rights come before the Left & Right Paradigm.

We need a campaign to Get Congress to Talk about

- Capital Flight from the USA
- Trust Money & Personal Savings Leaking out of the Economy and being stashed Off Shore
- The Effect of Investment Bankers Not Loaning to Small Businesses, and Wealthy People Stashing US Dollars which is effectively Economic Leakage, Currency Leakage, and a slowing of the Velocity of Money in the Economy... Well also Congress needs to talk about how GDP for Financial Activity is bogus and doesn't help the US Economy at all.

I heard on the radio this Republican, Supply Sider, on the Radio this week. He might be Paid by Right Wing Think tanks. He never once mentioned the problem of Capital. He says Obama is trying to help the Economy, but don't know how to do it. Like a broken record, year after year this guy get's it wrong.

Where is the Capital in the US Economy that would go to Small Businesses? It is just like the Great depression. Investment Banks have there large corporations they favor and they have casino gambling in depravities, commodities, and futures.

The Capital is leaking out of the Economy... going off shore or to Private Accounts. We have decapitalization. Capital Flight.


Anti Large Corporation Act. H.R. 1622: Fairness and Transparency in Contracting Act of 2013 (Supports Small businesses by getting large businesses excluded from contracts identified for small businesses)

The purpose of this Act is to modify the definitions relating to whether a business concern qualifies as a small business concern to establish additional requirements that ensure that no publically traded business concern, subsidiary of a publically traded business concern, foreign-owned business concern, or subsidiary of a foreign-owned business concern is considered a small business concern for the purpose of Federal Government contracting and subcontracting, including for procurement goals.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr1622

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr1622/text

H.R. 1622: Fairness and Transparency in Contracting Act of 2013

Introduced:Apr 18, 2013 (113th Congress, 2013–2015)Sponsor:Rep. Henry “Hank” Johnson Jr. [D-GA4] Mr. JOHNSON of Georgia (for himself, Ms. NORTON, Mr. RUSH, Mr. CONYERS, Ms. WILSON of Florida, Mr. GRIJALVA, Ms. CHU, Mr. CLAY, Ms. BORDALLO, Ms. KAPTUR, Ms. BROWN of Florida, Mr. THOMPSON of Mississippi, Mr. DANNY K. DAVIS of Illinois, and Mr. MCDERMOTT) introduced the following bill;

[-] 2 points by shooz (17951) 1 year ago

The Koch's are the proud poster children of corporate evil.

It's a family tradition........................:) Daddy co-founded the John Birch Society.

You will find Koch money in all of those things, yet you are correct in that they are not alone.

Hey!

I like Jeff Beck!! LOL

He's 10X the guitarist that Terrible Teddy is.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17951) 1 year ago

I can listen to Jeff all day, but I find it hard to get through 10mins of Glenn, without wanting to break whatever his voice is coming from.

Radio, TV or internet.....................:)

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

Man, great comment! You and shooz and DKA are all over this one!

Yeah, who wants armed revolution - why those who have the most arms of course! The neo-fascist corporatists.

If OWS wants to restore sane society it's going to take a lot more clever thinking than just playing into the hands of right-wing extremists who call for armed revolution.

Ghandi all the way. Resistance need not be passive, just non-violent. It is OWS that stands with the majority. The majority wants the restoration of sane society; so do we. Why do you think the MSM screams "Radical Window Breakers!" whenever they talk about protests? To paint resisters as radical when it is the growing anti-democratic agenda of the elite that is radical.

Only through commitment to non-violence will we ever win, and it will take time.

Let's face it, we can never again give up political activism, because that's what democracy is all about, the political engagement of the people. If we think that is hard then we must face the alternative, which is really, really, scary.

[-] 3 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

I would add that the people that would talk of war are pussies with power and crony friends.

I say the people that go to war don't want civil war... whether the have guns, or whether the are gun activist, I talk about people that were trained as US troops or servicemen, there is a kind of discipline & understanding, just like foreign correspondence, like Chris Hedges...

[-] 2 points by gsw (2867) 1 year ago

MARK KARLIN, EDITOR OF BUZZFLASH AT TRUTHOUT

Crack Coke: The Real Thing

http://truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/item/17948-forget-cocaine-the-bigger-danger-to-america-is-snorting-crack-koch ....yes. Important article Brought to us by Shooz, we must battle on Internet and on main street the Koch spin machines.

They're back!

The Koch brothers, according to a right wing publication report on a recent conclave held by the toxic billionaire siblings, will be back trying to buy the election in 2014.

According to The New American Magazine (which has the John Birch Society as the first on its list of "affiliates and friends"), the Koch Brothers recently revealed at their spring meeting of plutocrats (held in Palm Springs) that they are retooling their strategy for heavily investing in buying up the government:

One major change has already taken place at the Koch Brothers' key project, Americans for Prosperity (AFP). Founded in 2004 to educate and motivate concerned citizens about economic policy and political action for lower taxes and less government, in 2012 AFP invested more than $140 million in political ads and door-to-door canvassing efforts with disappointing results. The group’s chief operating officer was terminated along with most of its staff and several fundraisers, but two key Koch employees were placed on its board.

It’s likely that support for the 60 Plus Association will be reduced while funding for Generation Opportunity, geared more to younger voters, and The Libre Initiative, which focuses on Hispanics and Latinos, will be increased in time for the 2014 elections.

The big news, however, is the creation of a new tax-exempt group, the Association for American Innovation, which will be run by a former AFP strategist and will coordinate state efforts to reduce taxes and limit government spending.

In addition, heavy investment will be made in a voter-mining and management software program called Themis in an attempt to catch up with the Democrats’ successful data management strategy that gave them a significant strategic advantage in that party’s messaging during last year’s election campaign. It will likely be managed by a key Koch employee, Kevin Gentry, who will use it to target advertising buys on cable as well as focus on registering new voters and staying in touch with them on an ongoing basis.

The Koch brothers running a new tax-exempt group with another Frank Luntz style misleading name ("Association for American Innovation") that aims to allow multi-billionaires to seize even more of the nation's assets for personal wealth?  This isn't innovation; it's just tax-exempt mugging by another name.

The New York Times (NYT) ran an article by reporter Nicholas Confessore, who had not attended the event closed to the media (with recording devices also banned). Confessore talked to attendees and concluded that the Koch brothers were now going to play a larger direct role in the Republican Party: "Strikingly, after years of nurturing a political network and donor base largely independent from traditional Republican circles, the Kochs are planning to substantially increase their involvement in party affairs."

Fasten your seat belts. 2014 is going to be another effort to duplicate the Tea Party surge of 2010.  That's when plutocrats (the Koch brothers reportedly have a combined net worth well in excess of $50 billion dollars) distributed "Crack Koch" propaganda to anxious white middle class Americans, exploiting their economic and racial fears, creating a tsunami backlash against the federal government and Obama as a black president in particular.

That was powerful "Crack Koch" all right.  It takes some strong emotional hot button brainwashing narcotic to turn people against their own financial well-being.

Remember as the election nears: cocaine is illegal, but "Crack Koch" will be abundantly distributed as 2014 approaches – and it doesn't get people high, just confused, angry, and in support of policies that pick their pockets.

(Photo: Wikipedia)

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

The 2014 midterm election will be historic. I really think it may well determine the future of America, and of the world.

I know many here don't want to discuss electoral politics, and I understand their reasons, but we can't escape the truth that what measurable progress this movement has made so far has been in the voting booth, and I can't emphasize the importance of the upcoming election enough.

The Koch brothers and their agenda needs to be burried irrevocably in 2014.

Thanks gsw, DKA, and shooz - as well as all others advocating the restoration of a real and legitimate democracy here - for all you have done. It is very important. The 2014 election will be beyond important.

[-] 2 points by gsw (2867) 1 year ago

People Support Vote by Mail !... It Increases Democracy

http://archive.fairvote.org/turnout/mail.htm

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34876) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

LOL - well it could be funny if it were not so tragic.

[-] 1 points by Narley (-628) 1 year ago

Bingo. That is clarity. A lot of right wingers believe a shooting war is the only way they can get things moving in the right direction. I believe the AR-15 being the top selling gun is because of this. Conservatives are arming themselves to the teeth in anticipation of having to take up arms.

So, those of us that are looking for a revolution, be careful what you wish for.

Peace is the only way. This should be the mantra of OWS.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

holy crap. I hate hate speech so much from the right. I'll have to look at this.... all roads lead to Koch. I should know more about ALEC too... but I been lax. Sorry.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17951) 1 year ago

Yikes!!

Stay off this ALEC list.

http://www.prwatch.org/news/2013/05/12096/alec-assembles-most-wanted-list-and-oklahomans-say-alec-not-ok

Imagine that, they think they are the FBI.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

nice article.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17951) 1 year ago

Did you like that they made off duty cops, hired as security, wear their uniforms as if they were on duty?

If there isn't a law against that, there should be, but ALEC would probably just write some legislation to allow them to use public servants in such a way.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Actually I missed that point. What is shocking to me is how we have seen so many problems in Third World Countries ... and our leaders act like they don't know anything about it ... and seem to point us in the same direction.

Neoliberalism Wrecked South America, and the best thing South America has now is Tariffs on Imports so that they can develop their own industries. Free Trade damages these countries. But electronics can be expensive down there.

And in South America the Rich, Wealthy, and those with expensive stores ... they hire their own security guards complete with bullet proof vests, pistols, and shot guns. The problem is that life is cheap and the wage gap is great. But probably the way people got rich is not a good story either. Land owners and monopoly owners get rich. The differences in classes probably tells who was taking advantage of the System... or who put in the system.

So, now Corporations have power in the US, UK, Europe, Asia... Public Resources are given to the Corporations with the Lobby. And Wealth Blatantly rules over citizens.

I wish I had better examples...

[-] 1 points by shooz (17951) 1 year ago

And now the Koch's are "investing" some more money to bring all that here.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

I guess that is what they meant when they coined the phrase "war is unnecessary now it is all about economics" in the 1990s.

The wealthy wage war through business contracts, court systems, and Lobbying Congress. Oh, and through trade agreements.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17951) 1 year ago

If only they actually believed that stuff about war being unnecessary.

They still find it rather profitable.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

You are right. It was just a meme they passed around in the time before 2001. We all thing the Neoliberals and Neoconservatives created a network of people to repeat ideas in all big organizations.

Someone called these Repeaters. They just walk around repeating that the US military is Strong, That foreign nations are weak (specifically), that we should go to war, that JP Morgan never took a Bailout, that the work ethic is the problem, that people don't want to work, that people are lazy, that no level of compensation for an executive is too much (since they hope to make more money), that Free market Capitalism is what we have and that it is the best and that we need to deregulate all commerce in the USA....

That pretty much nails it.

Yeah, they profit from Economic War & from Real War. Democide.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17951) 1 year ago

Sounds like Koch brothers style libe(R)tarianism to me.

Just look at what they're doing in the States.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

It is like being in College and knowing that there were Young republican Groups. I would have no idea that they were Neoclassical Economists... and ready to join think tanks and conservative foundations to meet behind the scenes, establish contacts, establish networks, birth more Neoliberal organizations, and ... plan out the Zombie Apocalypse for the USA.

I guess... If you went to College or university you knew the Business Majors were a bit cut-throat. But the sheer Broad Expanse of Networking that has occurred... seemingly out of the Chicago University Economics Neoliberal Thought ... Is Staggering!!

[-] 1 points by Narley (-628) 1 year ago

It is amazing how much Obama’s being President has radicalized people on both sides of the table, including Congress. I normally hate presidential elections, but look forward to the culture wars that will part of the next election.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Obama becoming President has made many people realize that both parites answer to the corrupt elite

But much of what ails this country transcends traditional left vs right poltics

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by shooz (17951) 1 year ago

It just brought out the racist's in droves, and that simple fact is being exploited by the so called "right", as they lack anything even remotely resembling a moral compass.

Since I know you will refuse to believe this, I once again again provide links.

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/11/the_racist_twee.php

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/11/opinion/sunday/political-racism-in-the-age-of-obama.html?_r=0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX1BhYYcJNU

http://spectator.org/blog/2012/10/28/ap-poll-more-racism-against-bl

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/she-the-people/post/in-arkansas-racism-cuts-against-obama/2012/05/25/gJQAxddtpU_blog.html

http://www.theroot.com/buzz/toward-politically-correct-conservatism

http://racerelations.about.com/od/trailblazers/a/Three-Of-The-Most-Racist-Anti-Obama-Political-Attacks.htm

Even a riot in Mississippi.

http://americablog.com/2012/11/racist-students-riot-in-mississippi-over-obama-win.html

Now I don't believe for an instant that Obama is anything other than a man, but these kinds of things distort everything he does or doesn't do, to the detriment of us all.

So take your punk ass opinion and shove it.

The GOP is exploiting racism, to extend the recession.

[-] 1 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 1 year ago

And Michigan Democrats are dropping the N word on tape. It's nuts out there.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17951) 1 year ago

A change of subject?

How about comment on the info provided?

[-] 1 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 1 year ago

Noticed that you forgot to include that one and just wanted to do my part and help out. Go team.

We are never going to end the nightmare of racism unless we expose EVERY SINGLE INCIDENT to the light of day. Like I need to tell you that.

[-] 0 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 1 year ago

"a stupid slip of the tongue"? Surely you are not making excuses for such an obvious racist? I hate to say it, but your credibility might be in question here my friend. I think we all need you to make a declarative statement condemning that Democrat's blatant racism before this conversation moves forward.

I say all of this as your friend of course. It would break my heart if you were to open yourself to accusations of partisanship or (gasp!) hypocrisy about racism. Just a quick condemnation of this politician and then we can move on to the important issues

[-] 1 points by shooz (17951) 1 year ago

I see your mind is firmly attached to the tree.

I also see that you didn't read even ONE of the links I provided.

Not one.

What are you afraid of????

Besides the truth?

You can try reading some of these old posts as well, though I doubt you will.

Your underbelly is showing.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/its-not-about-race/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/its-still-about-race/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/potential-race-between-black-guy-and-mormon-poses-/

Some of them even showed up here.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/since-the-negro-race-has-turned-every-major-americ/

So you see it's YOU who has to admit the concerted racism in the GOP, before we can move on with this subject.

I'll stick to the forest. You have fun in that tree.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Glad u r loose. I cant stand US politics. But it is worse in other countries... including violence on candidates, and assassinations. But, guess I don't know if some of this is US interference.....

Well if we are the richest nation... some can come up with money for screwing foreigners. sad to say.

But, man what is up with enjoying us presidential elections????

[-] 0 points by Narley (-628) 1 year ago

Yea, you’re right. I guess I don’t really look forward to it. I’m just hoping with Obama gone people will be more rational. Obama’s very presence has caused so much radical thought. I hope whoever is next can somehow turn down the volume.

On the other hand, I think our problems are too big to vote our way out of. The term “culture war” is overly used, but it is true. The differing political and social views have indeed created very distinct cultures. I really don’t know how to address our differences. But I think OWS probably has the best approach.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Ok, laugh at me. Just cook 2 batches of chicken thighs on a cheap bucket grill. Had considerable flame first round, had towering infernos 2nd round.

Guess bucket grill doesn't do well with chicken skins. Probably ok for pork & burgers... I got flames and rapid flame ignition flipping the 2nd round.

[-] 0 points by Narley (-628) 1 year ago

I can’t tell if this a real story or a metaphor. So, assuming this is just a light hearted story. I use our big gas grill at least twice a week. But for some reason my chicken is inconsistent. However, I do a mouthwatering steak. Ditch the cheap grill and get a propane unit. Preferably one with more options than a than you’ll ever use.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Well, no go ahead and laugh. My mom made some chicken when I was kid just this these. Black and Crispy. Of course us kids gave her hell the poor lady.

I've don this before. I buy the cheap grills thinking I'll leave the country and not want to ship all my stuff in my house... that is just my weird outlook on life. All the contracts in the USA and increasing in third world or other countries as money making schemes.

Anyway... sure there are Island paradises where you can live cheap if you have money. But we all have to have purpose, principals, or human interactions like through service to the community, helping out, or something. So checking out like in the 1960s is not exactly what anyone is thinking about.

What is the dream of liberty, freedom, respect, dignity for all people?

It used to be America. But America has become about profiting from others purchases, marketing, advertising, propaganda, and ... dumbing down the population and voters. Maybe dumbing down the population is purely a German Marketing Idea from the Third Reich, but I would have no way of knowing. you got Fluoride out there?

Yes, this was serious and I have put on a third round of chicken.

I've cooked on coleman stove before... camping and figured out a way to camp with one propane tank, running a lantern & a stove with a T-fiting. Didn't work great in the high wind. The lantern seems to vary in light & intensity.

Is the USA going down? Should I buy stuff here. Well I knew a guy in 1989 that was talking about Race Wars and Middle East total chaos. So I guess he was wrong. Maybe it is a projection from some military scenario.

Funny thing is George W. Buss went to war and Ignored all the Military Institutional Knowledge build since the 1970s. What does that tell you.??

Anyway... sure the money talks so loud in Washington that no one can hear the people. I don't believe that. I think there are conspiracies. I think both the Ds & the Rs are knee deep in the corruption.

Are there options on gas grills that I don't know about. I guess I learn about indirect heating for ribs... Gas probably has more control and ... you can start hot and simmer for flavor.

[-] 1 points by Narley (-628) 1 year ago

I guess I’m a little more optimistic about the US. I see no reason to leave. I believe OWS is the beginning of an awaking of the masses to resolve our problem with government and corporations. I think it will take a generation or more before meaningful change is accomplished, but I think OWS is on the right track.

I’ve said it before, change cannot be made while the masses are living comfortable and secure lives. Only when circumstances and conditions threaten peoples serenity will people take to the streets. Things will get worse before it gets better. And maybe that’s a good thing. Our values are so screwed up we probably need shaking up a little to bring us back to reality.

Also, I’ve been contemplating just opting out. Just becoming one of the drones. Just ignoring it all and living my life without bullshit. I’m weary of the liberal, conservative paradigm. I weary of arguing with people over the internet who have no bearing on my life. More and more I’m thinking that’s what I’ll do.

My trick on grilling steak is to use thinner meat, that will cook quickly. Use high heat to sear it and seal in the juices. I like mine medium rare. Alas, I’ve still to figure out a way to grill chicken consistently. .

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Was searching on the internet today and read some comments about Plato's Book "The Republic". Apparently there are different interpretations of the book. One guy wrote that it was a guide for a new government Regime. Some say the book only reveals what happens in a big City State. Some look back and see where Philosophy & Government Joined together and this was a bad thing. Others point out that Plato spoke of the need for "Noble Lies" told by the government.

Seems like you have to be an Academic to really understand History, put Science in the proper perspective, interpret old books, and understand where we are today in Ideology, Politics, and Truth. And of course... the academics disagree about it all, but each one is cocky.

Yeah, I remember hearing that we tend to be happier and less stressed out if we don't watch the news and read a newspaper. Seems like a lot of people just devote themselves to study or research. I guess learning is gratifying & rewarding, so... that is not a bad way to go.

Wish I had gone to Law School and maybe then my opinion would matter more and be worth more.

In the US for me people said we should learn values... but they didn't point to philosophy in my opinion. Seems like we have vague notions of values. Conservative, Liberal, Democrat, Republican, Church, Bible, Catholic, other religion, Asian emphasis on education, US emphasis on a College Degree, ...

But clicking around in Wikipedia there are a whole lot of different words that describe specific values. Seems they have been lost to our language as the value for Work and Corporations rose.

[-] 1 points by Narley (-628) 1 year ago

I’m a technical guy. With a career in Information Systems I too often think in the logic of computers and technology. Liberal arts confuse me. I tend to think people should be logical and rational. When in fact they are neither.

I can handle the local news. Things like, will it rain, what’s the latest drama going on with the city council, etc.. But when the news is mostly opinion and argument, then I turn it off. Funny how different people see things. I have a retired college professor neighbor who can discuss matters of the world all day. When all I want to do help him get his lawn mower started.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Then you relate to what I said. I'm not really a computer guy. Maybe I'm a spreadsheet or data guy. I've had supervisors that were much more logical or reasonable than me. But it rubbed off on me too. At the start of my career people found out I had done something to play a joke in a computer class. They thought that was a risk to the organization and another reason to not like me. Then... looking back they hinting at recruiting me to programing reports. In the end I was running scripts and accessing many management info type data bases.

Yes, I like novels and stories a lot. But science and social science covers a lot of ground. I'm not sure you can call philosophy liberal arts without qualifying in as also a lot of discussion about math, logic, reason, and system.

Kant seems to be the philosopher of Reason. I didn't read this whole link, but here it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kant

Kant developed his moral philosophy in three works: Groundwork of the Metaphysic of Morals (1785),[44] Critique of Practical Reason (1788), and Metaphysics of Morals (1797).

In the Groundwork, Kant's method involves trying to convert our everyday, obvious, rational[45] knowledge of morality into philosophical knowledge. The latter two works followed a method of using "practical reason", which is based only upon things about which reason can tell us, and not deriving any principles from experience, to reach conclusions which are able to be applied to the world of experience (in the second part of The Metaphysic of Morals).

I'm not familiar with the works of Kant. I just remember some lesson I had heard 20 years ago. Actually I am surprised that I can name and find a reference to Reason. Immanuel Kant seems to have been very influential and the link shows a statue of Kant in Brazil of all places.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kant#Influence_on_modern_thinkers

Kant's work on mathematics and synthetic a priori knowledge is also cited by theoretical physicist Albert Einstein as an early influence on his intellectual development.[111]

Kant's influence also has extended to the social and behavioral sciences, as in the sociology of Max Weber, the psychology of Jean Piaget, and the linguistics of Noam Chomsky. Because of the thoroughness of the Kantian paradigm shift, his influence extends to thinkers who neither specifically refer to his work nor use his terminology.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

nearly 1 in 5 democrats. 1 in 5.

[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 1 year ago

Twice as many republicans. There are liberals that own guns, but it's much more common for it to be conservatives.

[-] 1 points by Narley (-628) 1 year ago

I own several guns, and carry one every day. I'm a liberal and a OWS supporter. As far as I know owning guns isn't against the rules to support OWS.

[-] -1 points by JPB950 (2254) 1 year ago

Never said it was. The point is who are the gun owners that actually do believe an armed revolution will be necessary?

I simply believe there are more on the right then on the left. An armed revolution isn't necessarily anything to celebrate unless you're side is the more heavily armed and wins. I'm not optimistic about the results of any revolution. Just because someone thinks a armed revolution will be necessary doesn't mean they share your beliefs about the type of government should emerge from that revolution.

[-] 0 points by Narley (-628) 1 year ago

I don’t believe a shooting war will occur. All the talk and saber rattling is just bluster. There could be a few isolated riots or similar incidents, but nothing like a full scale shooting war. As much bad blood as there is between the left and right we are nowhere near taking up arms against each other. Any rioting will be handled by the police without the public being involved.

The reality is the mass of Americans are complacent. They aren’t buy into any of this revolution talk. As bad as the government is, as greedy at the corporations are and as evil as Wall Street is; most people live a comfortable and secure life. They’re not going to support any revolution.

[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 1 year ago

I agree, a revolution is unlikely and Americans are certainly complacent. In spite of what has happened to the economy there isn't enough true economic misery for any real action by the population.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34876) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Any rioting will be handled by the police without the public being involved.

What?

Rioting - that would be portions of the public.

BTW - Revolution in and of itself does not spell violence.

For a supporter (?) of Occupy you sure do have a lot of negativity to work through as well as misconceptions/ignorance.