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Forum Post: National Rifle Association and their Four Hoaxes

Posted 1 year ago on April 26, 2013, 9:48 a.m. EST by OccNoVi (415)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

NRA is not the only NWNJ operation selling hoaxes. But theirs are doozies.

Paranoia on a plate !!

– Hoax #1. Obama is weak and that violent crime is exploding. Librul society is collapsing around us. Bogus numbers are generated in their ad campaigns, all around.

FBI says violent crime declined by 15.5% from 2007-2011. Clearly with increasing population, the crime numbers show that society is getting healthier overall. NRA's claim of crime increases is as scummy as the Reinhart and Rogoff hoax described below -- faking economic numbers to push austerity policies is as bad as faking to generate paranoia.

– Hoax #2 . Armed homeowners are force “1,000,000 to 2,500,000″ times a year to grab guns and defend their homes.

Utterly fantastic. Based on telephone survey work with no verifications and multiple fantasy reports from "habitual" callers to 911 emergency numbers, the folks who call in several times a week when raccoons rattle their trash cans.

FBI tabulations show 80 at-home civilian defensive killings in 2010. 150-200 non-lethal at-home defensive shootings. No more than 10,000 civilian gun uses at residences. If you don’t sell drugs out your door or live in a very bad neighborhood, the U.S. has 850 gun accident fatalities a year that are more likely to get you.

– Hoax #3. Gun Confiscation Army. Black helicopters, ninja uniforms, battering rams for gun-lovers' front doors. Operating at 3 A.M. Warrantless invasions.

A secret army of federal employees is lined up to break down doors and confiscate guns. The solution is to buy more guns. If you’re a true patriot then you sleep with a loaded pistol under your pillow.

-- Hoax # 4: The Democratic Party is committed to repealing the 2nd Amendment and will support a broad program of gun confiscation.

The people who are outright opposed to owning guns are the Quakers and Buddhists and other pacifist groups. They lead by example. NRA's buddies on the hate-radio circuit repeat this hoax over and over, most recently in the South Carolina campaign backing Mark "The Liar" Sanford.

Lying has come to be expected when we hear RW politicians and their media front-men. That pattern has extended to perpetrating hoaxes. The fundamentals of economic organization and personal safety are misrepresented with an apparent aim to generate artificial paranoia.

One bit of relief, recently, is that the airport delays are not a hoax. That is real. Other than that the main stories in the U.S. news have seen as much hoax as fact:

– The economics news is polluted by gawd awful Reinhart and Rogoff lies out of Harvard. “Growth in a Time of Debt” is a piece of sophomoric trash that excludes data from 5 countries and fakes a simple trend line. R&R created their hoax-paper to deny the basic lessons of modern Balance Sheet Recession economics.

– Follow up from Reinhart and Rogoff has featured more lies about academic critics. R&R insist on putting an Ivy League stamp on dishonest NeoCon tomfoolery. R&R admit to publishing bogus numbers and have yet to resign. (In their world only “the Left” care about dishonesty.)

– Another recent hoax blames Obama for the Boston massacre. Seems that the elder brother, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, was on at least one “watch list.” Then no one watched him. The RWNJ crew tell the story — omitting that these brothers came to the United States and got their papers under the anti-Putin policies of GW Bush.

Want lies, check the headlines. If the content comes from RWNJ economic sources or NRA, expect the worst. This cannot be good for democracy.

Republican talking points = one hoax after another.

– Growth in a Time of Debt

scholar.harvard.edu/files/rogoff/files/growth_in_time_debt_aer.pdf

– FBI 2011 Civilian Justifiable Homicide

www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-15

FBI data cover civilian gun fatalities by year. The at-home fatal shootings run about a third of all defensive gun uses that result in fatal shootings. Detail lines are available with names and addresses removed.

The Left ??? If you see a leftie hoax, let us know about it. One story going around is that Ronald Reagan lost 241 Marines in Lebanon in 1983. And another 63 dead at the Beirut embassy 6 months earlier. But that turns out to be true. Altogether 392 people were killed with thermobaric truck bombs before Reagan turned tail.

RWNJs deny that event. It's a matter of faith for them. RWNJs do like to complain about Obama losing 4 people in Libya in 2012.

51 Comments

51 Comments


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[-] 2 points by OccNoVi (415) 1 year ago

Hoaxes and scams.

Here's a quote on their practices as aimed at the elderly:


The NRA has recently put on a scam.

It sent an unsolicited DVD, and now demands that the member 'pay for what they ordered,' or 'send it back, as they'd agreed.'

Problem: it was never ordered, nor was any agreement to return it if uninterested made.

Second problem: if one gives in and simply pays for it, they disclose you then are in a kind of book (dvd) of the month program, where they will send you another one and another one each month, causing you to have to either pay for those, or take the time and expense to send them back.

I ignored the first demand letter, and just got another one. In this one, in fine print, at the bottom of page 4 iirc, the NRA 'discloses' (in as undiscoverable a fashion as possible) that 'since you did not order this, you are under no obligation to either pay for it or send it back.'

Finally something true from the NRA! Except that this same second dunning letter is all about two pages of assertions to the contrary of this disclaimer, and the disclaimer is essentially hidden. That is, it still says their member needs to pay for this, or send it back, as they'd agreed when they asked for a free trial send on the first DVD.


http://billiardsdigest.com/forums/showthread.php?37856-The-NRA-scams-its-membership

"Lie, Cheat and Steal" -- the effective motto of the N-RAncid crew.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34832) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Lesson learned from the publishers clearing house?

[-] 1 points by Narley (-624) 1 year ago

Interesting. I’ll ask them about it while I’m at the national NRA convention in Houston tomorrow.

[-] 1 points by OccNoVi (415) 1 year ago

Taken literally, a good idea.

Ask about the Gun Confiscation Army while you're at it. Who's in it, where do they drill, who are the leaders?

[-] 2 points by Narley (-624) 1 year ago

I own guns, but not a member of the NRA. One thing is not a myth. Some people really do want to outlaw ALL guns. Seems to me the anti-gun agenda is to legislate guns out of existance. If you don't see that you're not paying attention. I say don't give an inch.

You can blame the NRA all day, but the real power is the 76 million gun owners who arn't members of the NRA. We will not allow you to take our guns. Get used to it.

[-] 2 points by OccNoVi (415) 1 year ago

Who ??? Name us someone.

Back a piece, the one cited solid source for such a proposal came from Milton Eisenhower's study group. They listed eliminating hand guns (then 29,000,000 of them) as an option and said it would not be a practical tool for enhancing law enforcement.

Milton was Ike's brother.

[-] 1 points by Narley (-624) 1 year ago

Every time I say some people want to take ALL the guns I get asked for who said it. So I post six or seven links where people advocate doing away with all guns. I probably should have kept the links, but I didn’t. This time you can look it up yourself. Just do a search of banning all guns.

As for Eisenhower, Ike was my favorite president. He coined the term “military industrial complex”, and warned us about it. He built the national highway system. Before Ike most roads were two-lane roads. He also integrated the schools which started the era of civil rights. Other than that he didn’t do much but play golf. He was also a great military leader. We need more like him.

[-] 1 points by OccNoVi (415) 1 year ago

Give us real politicians making a claim that matters.

Of course we have practicing Quakers and Buddhists who would prefer to see a world without guns. They are better people than we are.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

If you're going to make an argument, at least have the courtesy to provide the links that back them. I've noticed this tactic a lot lately. It usually means there are no facts. AKA a wild goose chase.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Yes, thanks.

[-] 1 points by Narley (-624) 1 year ago

Somehow I think I just got played. Oh well, not the first time.

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Just trying to encourage people to base their arguments on documented facts. Without them, a battle of personal opinions never gets us a fraction of an inch closer to exposing the truth.

[-] 2 points by Narley (-624) 1 year ago

Got it. Thanks

[-] 0 points by Theeighthpieceuv8 (-32) from Seven Sisters, Wales 1 year ago

And you think, what? that if it appears on the Net is must be true?

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Not at all. Our arguments should be based on documented facts that are corroberated by multiple independent sources based on first hand information.

We must be careful to sift out the 50%+ of information on the internet that is either pure or partial fabrication.

[-] 0 points by ProblemSolver (79) 1 year ago

Right or Wrong is never based on facts, it is based on opinion.

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

If the opinion isn't based on fact, then it's neither right nor wrong, but irrelevant.

[-] 2 points by ProblemSolver (79) 1 year ago

I disagree.

  • Some decisions can not be based on facts.

  • Some decisions are based on opinion alone.

For example , do I think you are a nice person? How do I base this on fact , it is a decision based purely on opinion.. my own personal opinion.

..and for the record , I think you are a nice person.

Just to add a thought:

Is that person leading North Korea the right person to be the North Korean Leader. Is Mr Obama the right person to be President, .. how do we base this on "facts"?

We must use all our resources when we make decisions.. facts opinions .. everything .. IMHO : )

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

All opinions are based on facts, the characteristics we observe. The biases we have distort the clarity of what we perceive, as well as limit the full viewing angle.

[-] 1 points by ProblemSolver (79) 1 year ago

What about your favorite color .. is that based on fact ?

What some call personal opinion , othrs call bias.

Computers and machines base all their decisions on facts.. facts that have been programmed into them. Human beings have opinions , and bias's , that's what gives us ..flavor.. personality, character.. and invention. If we were machines , without opinions, the world would be a very very cold place to live .

When's the last time your computer came up with an idea !?

I would like your opinion on the North Korean Leader. Is he the "right" leader for North Korea ?

I remember recently, back during the crisis in Sudan, the local journalists.. mainly on radio stations, were discussing none other than the meaning of "genocide". And they couldn't decide on it's true definition.. and they kept on discussing this , until finally the crisis ..died down ..without ever once mentioning.. " what should be done to help those poor people. I guess journalism is a fact based , moraless.. world.. of a "fly on the wall kind of world. They completely detach themselves from reality.. and why ? perhaps to avoid getting involved ? Discussing facts all day can be a good place to hide.

[-] 1 points by OccNoVi (415) 1 year ago

NRA has a Top 10 Movies list:

    Red Dawn (1984)
    The Terminator (1984)
    The Alamo (1960)
    Die Hard (1988)
    The Godfather (1972)
    Zombieland (2009)
    The Matrix (1999)
    The Delta Force (1986)
    The Road Warrior (1981)
    Tremors (1990)

Uh, the original Terminator movie was about guns ??? It took a heavy industrial machine to kill the damn thing.

Anyway if that's the best they can do.... since they've forgotten Travis Bickle in "Taxi Driver." He's America's archetype for gun nuts.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

why did they leave Fast and Furious off the list ?

[-] 1 points by OccNoVi (415) 1 year ago

It hasn't been released on VHS format ?

[-] 1 points by OccNoVi (415) 1 year ago

You would think that the people running the NRA are their own hoax. Not much but lard-xxxxx containers for lies.

"New NRA Head Not Fan Of ‘Fake President’ Obama, Thinks Civil War Was ‘Northern Aggression’"

http://www.mediaite.com/online/new-nra-head-not-fan-of-fake-president-obama-thinks-civil-war-was-northern-aggression/

Obama is a "fake president." Sure thing Mr. Porter. One more lie for their hoaxes.

[-] 1 points by OccNoVi (415) 1 year ago

There's a pic of Porter there that's well worth the click.

He's 100 pounds overweight, but squeezes a microphone like he was on a honeymoon with it.

[-] 1 points by OccNoVi (415) 1 year ago

Take a look at this posting:

Conspiracy Theories Push Right Wing Agendas. So Why Are You Supporting Them?

-- http://occupywallst.org/forum/conspiracy-theories-push-right-wing-political-agen/

[-] 1 points by OccNoVi (415) 1 year ago

Another hoax ??? How tasteless can an iPhone app be, offering a shoot-em-up game in the post-Sandy-Hook era?

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/nra-practice-range/id584567057?mt=8&ign-mpt=uo%3D2

They love their guns, have a "gun culture," believe that in a perfect world only the bad guys would suffer gun wounds, and adore the concept of providing target practice opportunities for 4-year olds.

That's the NRA. That's also while they're sober. Imagine them drunk.

[-] 1 points by OccNoVi (415) 1 year ago

"Four years ago LaPierre dusted off and embellished his Clinton-era prediction, arguing that if Barack Obama were elected, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Laura Ingraham and Sean Hannity would be silenced, and “civil disarmament” would be implemented through a United Nations gun-ban treaty. Needless to say, that didn’t happen, but LaPierre now says it’s only because Obama and his advisers decided prior to his election to forgo implementation of the dastardly plan and instead “hatched a conspiracy of public deception to guarantee his re-election in 2012.” According to LaPierre, Obama still plans to “erase the Second Amendment from the Bill of Rights and exorcise it from the U.S. Constitution” in a second term, when he will turn “American’s guns into international soup cans and park benches.” Exactly when that will transpire, and whether Obama will repeal the Second Amendment with a two-thirds vote of the Senate or simply forgo that constitutional formality and resort to extralegal means, remains unclear. LaPierre only says that Obama is 'just waiting for the moment to strike.'”

-- NRA's Doomsaying Sham

www.salon.com/2012/07/24/nras_doomsaying_sham/

If you don't buy enough guns, we'll all wake up in a Stalinist police state.

[-] 1 points by Theeighthpieceuv8 (-32) from Seven Sisters, Wales 1 year ago

There is no doubt that the ticket in '16, regardless of political affiliation, will be of a far more conservative bent. So I think this is all much ado about nothing.

[-] 1 points by OccNoVi (415) 1 year ago

There is also a possibility of a Biden/Warren 2016 ticket.

I could go for that. Then a Warren/somebody ticket in 2020.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

did you see piers morgan tear up the president of gun owners of America & alex jones a few weeks ago ?

[-] 2 points by OccNoVi (415) 1 year ago

Jones comes off as mentally disordered. He believes in what we label as the "Gun Confiscation Army." He thinks that something like that exists.

Paranoid.

On a good day... paranoid.

[-] 0 points by Narley (-624) 1 year ago

I guess it’s a matter of perception. I saw just the opposite. Morgan just loses his temper and goes off on a tirad. No credibility. Also, Ted Nugent puts Morgan in his place.

[-] 3 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

I love Ted Nugent - with his straight jacket on

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34832) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

and sitting behind a thick glass barrier ?

[-] -1 points by Narley (-624) 1 year ago

Yea, I admit he's a little crazy sometime. I like him anyway, but hate his type of music.

[-] 0 points by Stormcrow2 (-184) 1 year ago

Wow, your stats about guns and gun ownership is great. This means we don't need any more gun control measures. So I guess we need to focus on the real problems of this country

Government lies and e-mails to call them out.

[-] 2 points by OccNoVi (415) 1 year ago

How's about bridges falling down, the $2-trillion wasted on Iraq and Afghanistan instead of modernizing infrastructure, and the odd ball tax structure that has seen real taxes on big business fall from 30% in 1965 to 12% today ?

If you're sane and not a criminal, you are not affected by any of the mainstream gun control measures -- apart from expanding the "machine gun" category to include militarized assault rifles.

If you are insane or a criminal, well of course you should be affected. Very affected, including getting guns confiscated.

NRA has done their damnedest to see that the insane and criminals can get guns. That's bad on everybody.

[-] 0 points by Stormcrow2 (-184) 1 year ago

So tell everyone just how the NRA has seen to it that "Insane and criminals" can get guns?

Do you have criminal cases that are brought against the NRA for doing this - or is this just talk?

Now I do recall that the Fed Government didn't do their job - think maybe that's the problem -

[-] 0 points by OccNoVi (415) 1 year ago

Another example of the Reagan-Goebbels assault on democracy:

"Democracy is not the solution for our problems. Democracy is the problem."

Restated as a throw-away line: "the Fed Government didn't do their job" with no reference to evidence whatsoever. Brown Shirt emotion, not thinking.

[-] 0 points by justiceforzim (-17) 1 year ago

ONV,Bensdad,WSmith,VQ, et al

Can you provide any links to Nra source material you have cited above? Probably not, because it isn't true.

[-] 1 points by OccNoVi (415) 1 year ago

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/02/26/nras-media-misinformation-series-pushes-systemi/192799#media1

Lots of it.

NRA has been careful recently to publish the Gary Kleck numbers as though they were quoting members of NRA. But you see the same figures over and over from American Rifleman and other publications, plus public statements and testimony.

You can use da google yourself. And another Media Matters page has links to other sources on these connections:

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/02/26/nras-media-misinformation-series-pushes-systemi/192799

Back in the 1990s this business of lying their butts off was part of the ad campaign that RNA and their friends ran attacking Librul candidates -- meaning anybody even or to the center of Barry Goldwater.

[-] 2 points by justiceforzim (-17) 1 year ago

Media Matters????? Ha,ha,ha

That's almost as good as me posting that Obama was born in Kenya, rasied in Marxism and is a practicing Muslim and offering as proof an Alex Jones article.

As a member of the NRA, I know your post is bullshit. Have never seen them claim any of the bullcrap you claim. You'd do well to realize that the NRA is not some evil corporation....it is the voice of millions of gunowners.

[-] 1 points by OccNoVi (415) 1 year ago

Try arguing with the content of your opponents' arguments.

Otherwise you are lost in an informal fallacy known as "ad hominem."

Acquiring facts is hard enough. Then you have to apply rules of logic to evaluation each item independently.

[-] 1 points by Narley (-624) 1 year ago

Jeez, The bullshit never ends. So let me see if I can get to the heart of the issue. We’re not giving up our guns. End of story. I don’t know how I can be more clear.

[-] 1 points by OccNoVi (415) 1 year ago

Keep your gun.

Just lock it in a gun safe and apply sensible standards for safety. Police professionals know what to do and they can advise sensible precautions.

-- http://www.policemag.com

The folks at Police Magazine know a whole lot more about this than you do.

[-] 0 points by justiceforzim (-17) 1 year ago

It's hard to argue with bullshit and that's what your entire post is. Your 3 hoaxes are themselves, a hoax. I asked for you to give me links to where the NRA has made these 3 hoax claims and you give a frickin Media Matters link! I'd hardly call my response ad hominem, I hope you can apply rules of logic to digest my current response.

[-] 1 points by OccNoVi (415) 1 year ago

Read, understand, apply.

MM quotes an obvious series of statements from NRA and their spokesmen.

In fact the overall count for violent crimes has declined by 15.5% from 2007-2011, there are only 80 defensive at-home killings by civilians a year which projects to 10,000 total at-home gun uses, and there is no Gun Confiscation Army.

NRA pushes the alternatives. Publishes the craziest versions of the three hoaxes, supports bogus reports -- same as the last 30 years.

Buy a lightning rod. Does a lot more good and there's not much risk for suicides and homicides.

[-] 0 points by OccNoVi (415) 1 year ago

And a wordpress version:

Democracy in a Time of RWNJ Hoaxes

-- vets74.wordpress.com/2013/04/26/democracy-in-a-time-of-rwnj-hoaxes/

[-] 0 points by OccNoVi (415) 1 year ago

Here's Bill Moyers starting to come to grips with NRA dishonesty:

-- www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/07/21/bill-moyers-nra-has-turned-the-2nd-amendment-into-a-cruel-and-deadly-hoax/