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Forum Post: National Conversation of the Day

Posted 4 years ago on July 19, 2013, 7:44 p.m. EST by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Were the President entertaining responses to his impromptu address this morning, I would say something like . . .

Thanks Mr. President - the first time I had heard how the shoes of a Black Man may feel I kinda got the creeps - being a scruffy white guy with long hair I've heard the door locks click as I pass by, but I am aware all I need do is shower and shave, get a hair cut, flash a winning smile, and that negative response to my passing by just goes away.

While I may harbor no illusions, I do hope your statement today does inspire a high degree of national introspection on the topic in the hope that we may somehow mitigate these ill affects and so improve the quality of life for all.

As to your comments regarding support for the youth of this nation, I must insist, Sir, with all of the respect that I do possess both for your person and accomplishments as much as the office of President itself - I am on the verge of a snarl. A snarl, Sir. One that is deep, guttural, and angry.

IF we would provide support for the youth of this nation, regardless of either race or class, then we must end The War on Drugs. It should be self evident, and is a topic I turn to at every opportunity.

I do believe it is a point I have attempted to bring home to your office on several occasions in the past. Doing the right thing is rarely popular - but is its own reward.



and the rest of you nay sayin nimrods and nitwits can kiss my ass



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[-] 3 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 4 years ago

I assume you know about this group: http://www.leap.cc/


[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 4 years ago

Another great speech to pacify us, all while he accepts money from the big banks and corporations who benefit from the PIC


[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 4 years ago

And for us to be able to gather together business leaders and local elected officials and clergy and celebrities and athletes and figure out, how are we doing a better job helping young African-American men feel that they're a full part of this society and that -- and that they've got pathways and avenues to succeed?

Um. That means that the whole outsourcing thing is going to have to go. You have to be able to see a possible future.

I have mixed feelings about the above. There is no one size fits all solution. Life is messy. People are messy. I prefer a nice little order but, that isn't how life works. I strongly feel that there are a lot of people with good intentions. I also think that the approach, is often, with a lecture. Or, I am going to tell you everything that you are doing is wrong. It's very rigid.

Consider this: http://thegrio.com/2013/02/15/70-percent-increase-in-adhd-among-black-children-study-finds/

Nobody questions the system in and of itself. It couldn't possibly be wrong. Pay no attention to the fact that African American males are far more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD probably by the pediatricians.

Don't question the school system. The testing. The bullshit test scores internationally or the profit by the testing companies or anyone who wants to cash in on those little money makers.

No, those are the good guys and everyone should learn how to be exactly like those good folks right there. Let's just treat kids like failures from the ground up and then expect them to believe in paths into society.

When people talk about a sense of community, it is usually about what it is that one person wishes to extract from another. Or about service. Kids making an effort with the community. So many kids went out and picked up trash on this block or did this or that thing.

[-] 0 points by PortugueseExplorer (10) 4 years ago

I would be inclined to agree, Girl. There can be no equal opportunity without opportunity. As for education I think we've tried that; we've even gone so far as to permit certification without qualification in the form No Child Left Behind. We've also greatly expanded social care. And as for ADHD/ adderall I find it interesting that no such thing existed only a generation ago. How is that possible? The home environment was far more stable; the mind's presence in time demanded greater imagination, creativity, and focus, and we've also been severely impacted, whether we want to admit it or not, by our drug culture. And if you don't believe this, we can present ways to discover it - just examine the faces of those incarcerated.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 4 years ago

No, no not really. You haven't greatly expanded social care. You haven't tried that wit education. The only thing that has been tried is how to profit from it.

It's possible to have existed because there were other types of jobs available. The home environment has not changed since the manufacturing jobs in the city came into play. Look, there were no good old days. None. Check out the orphan train riders.


[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 4 years ago

That sounds about right. It coincides with the zero tolerance and an increase in high stakes testing.
I came across a book several years ago written by a psychologist or psychiatrist on boys. I can't remember his name and it is somewhere here. In this book you could see the pictures of the brain from a kid who has taken medication for ADHD compared to a brain from a crack addict. He noted that a wrongly diagnosed kid, after taking the medication and stopping, would develop ADHD. I am not a medical person. Really I am not. So, he could have been full of shit. I thought he was full of shit with another part of his book. He blamed the school issue on feminism rather than profit. Which is horseshit. It was written some 10 years ago and I wonder if he would have changed his views.

You have such a push on kids that are still wiggleworts to sit still and behave and shove as much information that you can on them under the pretense of this testing. When the kids can't do that, a teacher makes a referral and the kid is diagnosed by a PEDIATRICIAN (really?). Most parents are so keyed into academic success that they, often, don't question it. So, the kid takes the medication so they can focus at school.
Once upon a time, if a kid took medication and was wrongly diagnosed then they would become really paranoid. The medication had this opposite effect on people that were wrongly diagnosed which gave way to meds being sold on the playgrounds. I wonder if that is still true as far as meds today. Would you be able to tell from the reaction to the medication today? Or do you just throw a sleeping medication on top of it?

While I don't think that there is a plot-a-foot, there is a large part of me that wouldn't be surprised. Pediatricians are not psych. They are not. If you have that many children (4.6 million) then it is time to question the system.


[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 4 years ago

There is that.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (2698) from Cornelius, OR 4 years ago

Don't you mean the Pharmaceutical Industry "has way too much power today - and no credibility."

Psychology is still widely panned and scarcely covered by our for-profit world's worst health care system.


[-] 0 points by WSmith (2698) from Cornelius, OR 4 years ago

you're sounding experienced



[-] -1 points by WSmith (2698) from Cornelius, OR 4 years ago

Unite and Win!

[-] 0 points by Renneye (3874) 4 years ago

You couldn't be more correct, Zen.

Here's something from Jon Rappoport. One of the most Independent Thinkers of our time, imo. Kind of like you ;-)

~ "Psychiatrist Stuart Kaplan, a professor at Penn State College of Medicine, has written an article for the June 20th issue of Newsweek, based on his book, YOUR CHILD DOES NOT HAVE BIPOLAR DISORDER: HOW BAD SCIENCE AND GOOD PR CREATED THE DIAGNOSIS.

Kaplan states that, in 1995, there were fewer than 20,000 outpatient visits for pediatric bipolar disorder in the US. As of 2003, that number had swelled to a mind-boggling 800,000. " ~

"The psych industry has way too much power today - and no credibility." I echo your independent conclusion, Zen. The psych industry is 'off it's rails'.

Here's another from Jon Rappoport, I think you may relate to...

The covert op called Democracy: perverse poetry and sentimental music


Jon Rappoport's site;



[-] 3 points by WSmith (2698) from Cornelius, OR 4 years ago

What do you suppose these clowns get, what is it they are after, what is the great reward if we all finally see the light and embrace individuality and complete disengagement from the "system"? What could that be? Do they even know? Is this how Wall Street Banksters got sooo rich and powerful?

Can they say plu·toc·ra·cy [ploo-tok-ruh-see] ?

See you at the landfill.


[-] -1 points by martha89 (-2) 4 years ago

You communicate well, and your imagination seems boundless. I assume that means you're a pretty hard hitter in bed. I'll be in Vermont next week if you'd like to try to hit some home runs in a new park.


[-] -1 points by martha89 (-2) 4 years ago

My name is Martha. From Cleveland. I used to be a hippie like you. Now they advocate for freedom, but we used to fornicate for it. Remember that? I'll be camping at Hogback Mountain. You're invited.


[-] 2 points by Renneye (3874) 4 years ago


Ok. Not everyone that doesn't tout a socialist or democrat agenda is a libertarian/capitalist/republican. Rappoport is no more a libertarian than you or me. He opted out of the matrix...and long ago. He has simply divorced himself from the system, entirely...and questions everything. He's kind of a neutral social observer.

When did "thinking independently" become dirty words, synonymous with going against the pack? Since when are we not allowed to stand back and question, not only 'the system', but more importantly, when there is a call to fall lockstep into a collective groupthink? When did that happen??

Every movement/revolution requires that we pan out...use our peripheral mindsight to gauge the whole situation. And with good reason. Show me one revolution where the powers that be didn't infiltrate and attempt to ( many times successfully) co-opt the populace.

Rappoport is not saying that the individual groups are wrong, or shouldn't fight for fairness. But, he recognizes how the oligarchs/government 'want' these groups and use them, in part, to divide the populace against each other. He notes that often, society as a whole comes out weaker because one side of the 'fight' loses...and it doesn't need to be that way, when done properly.

Indeed, he recognizes that the individuals/groups are legitimate and well intentioned...but are 'unknowingly' playing into the chaos that the ruling elite have so expertly orchestrated, for a millenia. Not only that...but these groups, through indoctrination, end up 'using' the very system they abhor for their own purposes, becoming exactly what it is they are fighting against... and, this pervasively legitimizes the system. Effectively, the populace end up becoming 'cogs in the wheel' of a 'sick' society, inadvertently doing the bidding of the oligarchs.

The oligarchs/governments seek to distract us using issue after mind numbing issue, as they casually pilfer and strategize.

Issues 'dilute' movements and revolutions. Rappoport and others, are simply saying, quit falling for it! This is common knowledge now. I would have thought, that you, of all people, would have understood this kind of mass indoctrination into groupthink.

This forum is a prime example of falling for the 'issues' chaos. So much attention is given to issues from gun control to abortion rights, and on and on...and on. We are drowning in a sea of issues. We're encouraged to get on the bandwagon, and if we don't cry a river over individual ( very divisive ) cases, we are branded with some foul label that would indicate that we are somehow against community...against solidarity...against ows. In my view this is dangerous groupthink (group indoctrination), and keeps us from doing the one thing we need to do that would virtually guarantee our human rights, justice, fairness...and dignity. Governance by the people. I'm not saying that issues don't have merit here, because they do...BUT, when someone on the forum tries to point out that there is a bigger picture that is at least as important and may even be more critical, it shouldn't be dismissed as anti-ows.

The 0.01% use these and other methods to take our eye off the prize, which is a form of government "by the people, for the people". If we could successfully organize a 'People's Society', we could democratically vote on the individual issues, thereby ensuring that every fellow human being were treated with dignity...making obsolete, the need for individuals/groups to fight for their rights by forming a zillion groups trying to get a fair shake. Everyone wins if the people govern...not just the groups that manage to get money using the current system. THIS is what terrifies the ruling elite. Truly taking power away from them...not a diluted populace with a zillion different issues fighting for their slice of the pie.

I'm not defending Rappoport per se, but perhaps our struggle to protect independent thinkers, not only from the system, but there is also an equal danger in falling lockstep into any new movement...especially without questioning, assessing, and reassessing often.

One needs to read a few of Rappoport's pieces to get a feel for what he's about.

You're stuck, or so it seems. You need to get over this "if you're not singing the Democrat song, then by default, you're a libertarian right winger." It's very shortsighted, imo. It breeds divisiveness and invariably violence.

This is a little difficult for me to say, Zen...but given your background and your many comments and cues to the forum to kill and be killed in the streets...consider that perhaps you are a cog in the(ir) wheel.

Please consider that there is something bigger, much bigger, than the divisive left/right, democrat/republican paradigm, that unites us and is far more productive and worth putting our efforts into.

Sign me...'not disappointed, just surprised'.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

Please show me where the Dems are doing anything even remotely like what the GOP is doing to Michigan under a libe(R)tarian banner?

No one has actually shown the "they're both the same" rhetoric to be true.

no one.

[-] 3 points by Renneye (3874) 4 years ago

What is it you're looking for? A memo? A signed confession from either side? You may be waiting a while.

To understand the left/right paradigm, you have to 'PAN OUT' over many decades and gauge where society is at, after several administrations of both parties.

Let it be known that the list below is a list of promises from both the republicans & democrats, and my listing them here does NOT mean that I agree or disagree with any of them. I am neither republican nor democrat, or any other label for that matter. I abhor labels, but if there were a label for "DIGNITY & a love for all human beings", then I would gladly live with that label.


Republicans & democrats both claim:

  1. They won't raise taxes...yet we have higher taxes, year after year.

  2. Education and schools need to be enriched...yet education and schools steadily decline, year after year. (the dumbing down continues, we are not excelling here when it is so easy to do so)

  3. Offshoring jobs needs to stop...yet jobs keep disappearing overseas, year after year.

  4. People should have higher median wages & benefits...yet median wages & benefits fall, year after year.

  5. They will ease the tensions of racial divide...yet the chasm of racism thrives, year after year. Indeed, 'fueled' (the fuckers)

  6. Infrastructure needs immediate attention...yet bridges, roads, buildings, indeed entire cities continue to crumble, year after year.

  7. Equality is of the utmost importance...yet disparity of ALL kinds, gender, class, wage, education, LGBT, and racial...continue, year after year.

  8. Illegal immigration needs to be curtailed...yet it continues, year after year.

  9. Slavery & human exploitation needs to be abolished...yet laws that protect human rights are eroded, ever expanding the degradation of a human being to no more than a hunk of meat with a dollar sign allotted to 'it' and discarded when no longer profitable, year after year. (no expletive strong enough to describe the hatred for the oligarchs)

  10. The environment needs to be protected...yet deregulation allowing corporations to destroy our world continues virtually unabated, year after year.

  11. Everyone should have access to healthcare...yet Americans' health is left to languish from unaffordable healthcare, year after year.

I could easily fill up 2 or 3 posts, but you get the idea.


One could argue that inroads have been made, but over the test of time that spans many decades, if not hundred of years... also, think tanks and global agencies with access to the world's supposed most forward thinking 'intelligent minds'...those inroads are far too paltry, when the answers are obvious to a 10 year old. I ask you...Is our current world, the best our most 'intelligent minds' could come up with?

Yes, there are small victories. Women won the vote and 'outward' segregation is gone, among others, but, in the grander scale of things, those victories are small, meant to appease and placate a populace. They are 'orchestrated' into the oligarchs equation, which give the illusion of progress.

We should be much further along in consciousness as a humanity by now. If our 'representatives' and ruling elite have not done it by now, they never will. True progress will only come when we turn our backs on the system...the whole system....and create our own.


Finally, and slightly unrelated...

The Kochs need exposing. No question. You've done important work in this regard. But, there are other American AND international oligarchs that are equally insidious and in need of exposing, as the Kochs could not do what they do without the collusion of the others. It wouldn't hurt to 'pan out' a little.

The work of 'windyacres' and 'LeoYo' as well as others, in focusing on the more panoptic view of the global oligarchs are to be commended here as well. 'Windyacres' unwavering commitment to the Karen Hudes exposure of the oligarch corporate conglomerate is critical work...and 'LeoYo's' steadfast commitment to exposing the oligarch's via the "Global Power Project" series, should be front and center of occupy, imo. Not to undermine anyone else's heartfelt and necessary work, as there are a handful of others here doing wonderful work exposing the global oligarchs, but these two stories are very current and need immediate support before they disappear in the subterfuge that the oligarchs are so good at creating.



[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 4 years ago

1 taxes are lower than in the 60s

2 education is not failing (that's just the excuse the rich give when they don't want to give any money away)

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

Where's the part about emergency managers??

Where's the part about melding church and State?

Where's the part about attacking women's rights a State at a time?

Where's all the anti-LBGT legislation?

and so many more.

You need to get busy.

And hey?

How's Harper doing up there?

I see he might be losing some of his popularity, we could sure use a report from the boots on the ground up there.

[-] 0 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago




The damage was done while you were waiving your pom poms like a 6th grader.

Most of us have woken up. What are you still clinging to? A paycheck? haha you pawn.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

Wake up??

I think you should.

Can you show where they usurped a duly elected official and negated city councils?

Where they did this to sell off gifted/endowed public lands to allow the governors cronies to build a golf course?

Can you show me where they ignored a State constitution to increase taxes on people with fixed incomes. allegedly for the purpose of corporate tax breaks, that didn't "create jobs"?

Indeed the job increases are in the unionized auto industry that was already here.

Did you also ignore all the teabagge(R)y going on in Wisconsin?

PS. I'm growing weary of your name calling.

Last I heard you admitted to clinging to Alex Jones, so it's not like you have any room to talk about such things.

[-] 0 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago




Clearly shows where your jobs went.

No comment? "Still ignoring it"? Generally you assume someone endorses it if they ignore you.

Try being unemployed because people like you keep supporting this system.

Your pension is next.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

You forgot that part where those counts actually show what jobs went where.

It doesn't show anything clearly at all.

[-] 0 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

Its a big picture thing. This system is designed to function exactly as it is.

Me and you can go round and round on this that and the other thing, but the end game is we both get screwed while the elites get theirs.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

Excuse me?

But you're the one going 'round and 'round.

That's what puppet use will do to you.

[-] 0 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

"Please show me where the Dems are doing anything even remotely like what the GOP is doing to Michigan under a libe(R)tarian banner?"


Your city is bankrupt because of it. So is the entire country.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago


And around and around and around you go.

Pretending they don't matter, but they do, don't you know.

Still, it took the libe(R)tarians to move the jobs, not the politicians.

GATT, as you've so conveniently ignored is an international agreement, and not wholly the product of US politicians.

Say hello to your own Koch brotherly love.

Now about your HATE for unions?

They suffered most of the pain from this libe(R)tarian attack.

[-] 0 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

"GATT, as you've so conveniently ignored is an international agreement, and not wholly the product of US politicians."

So because other scumbags wanted in, we should ignore it. You sound like a slave trade defender right now. You are getting more conservative by the day.

Defending GATT now.

Endorsing slave trade.

Screwing the unions.

http://tech.mit.edu/V114/N60/gatt.60w.html You should be proud.

Anything else you'd like to bury yourself with...

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 4 years ago

Doesn't know how.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

Of course not, his current hang up is on his good buddies the Koch's GATT bill.

I don't think he even knows what it is. At least, not without google.

He never did mention the Lee Camp interview with Greg Pallast.

He's still lost in the gobbledegook over at CATO.

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 4 years ago

It isn't lost. It's intentional bullshit.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

Or perhaps Florida has become so far to the right, that the John Birch society has become centrists? Even left wing??


He posted breitbart links as well. I guess he thinks that's centrist/left wing too?

Stupid wingers.

Can't see the forest for the trees.

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 4 years ago

Oh, yeah, Florida is a current shit hole. The Tea Tolers made sure of that. Those Teathuglicans couldn't wait.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

He's living in libe(R)topian small government, says he hates it and hates who runs it, but still wants to spread it everywhere.

Then he calls me names for tying to explain it.


Didn't the right wing used to pick on California and say too much sun and sand makes you crazy?

The land of fruits and nuts?

I guess they missed Florida, Texas and Arizona.

[-] -1 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

Ya, its definitely bullshit to talk about the loss of manufacturing jobs and then bring up all the free trade deals that did it.

"Please show me where the Dems are doing anything even remotely like what the GOP is doing to Michigan under a libe(R)tarian banner? No one has actually shown the "they're both the same" rhetoric to be true."

Total bullshit. How absurd. Like this shit just started this year or something.

Why would anyone post a link to a free trade vote after that?


Sick of people ignoring the hard truth. Good night.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 4 years ago

That would be an issue and issues R bad mmmmkay...........

[-] -1 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

167 Dems for. Defend away pawn.


If you dont openly denounce this and the Democrats and Repblicans then we have to assume you are supporting it.

Camp would laugh in your face.

Rabble rabble.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

You really have no idea, what GATT is without google, do you??

Would you please be so kind as to shove your constant name calling up your ass?

Or leave at the Bircher site.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

We had this conversation before, although at least I don't recall you resorting to your usual name calling antics.

Raw vote counts are meaningless. They always were, just like the Ron Paul vote count bullshit.......was.....well.......... bullshit.

It didn't really tell the whole story.

Since you didn't listen to the interview, I completely reject your final comment's attempt at insult.

I've been condemning GATT for years before you even heard of it.

You just have no concept about how it fits into the libe(R)tarian plans.

You apparently like Ayn Rand.

[-] 0 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

The votes are meaningless?

Are you openly endorsing words over actions?

ARe you denying that Levin (D)-MI just voted to send more jobs to Panama?


How on earth can you sit there and bitch about jobs and support that. Your city is bankrupt because of that garbage,

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

Still changing the subject?

I don't care about the bill.

Show me where that guy set up a corporation in Panama.

Unlike you I don't HATE Panamanians, nor the Chinese, nor the Canadians for that matter.

I don't begrudge them a job.

You do apparently.

You still know nothing about what happened to Detroit. You're stuck with the simplistic view you garner from the Birchers and Alex Jones.

Now about your support for the Ayn Randers?

[-] 1 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

So now you are openly endorsing slave labor?

Another new low has been reached, typical Dem/Rep thinking.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

No, that would be you ignoring the actual slaved for profit children, in your own state.

While you refuse to so much as consider them.

If you would be so kind as to show me where I stated the support you accuse me of please do.

In those exact words.

I know as a libe(R)tarian you're an isolationist.

But know that those conditions are created by libe(R)tarians all over the world.

And libe(R)topia wonderful?

Don't you want to bring more of it here to the US?

Just .like in Florida!!

And if they misbehave and unionize......give 'em an ALEC created Detroit.

[-] 1 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

Libertarians are for more free trade.

You cant claim the globalists are liber-whatever you little name is and then change your tune.

Stop endorsing the system if you care so much. Endorsing slave labor is wrong, on any level.

What is happening to the kids in teh entire country is the result of sick people like whose ego gets in the way of clear thinking.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 4 years ago

The libertopians will save us.

God bless the fucking libertopians.

[-] 1 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago


etc etc etc etc.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 4 years ago

That's about the biggest line of shit that I have heard in about......three weeks.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 4 years ago

That was an excellent response Renny. I can see the forum has been in good hands during my self-imposed lower 48 exile...;-)


[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 4 years ago

Brilliant and incisive, Renneye.

I've been hanging back from this forum because it's mirroring the MSM lately, with the endless chants of zimmerframes and standing some ground.

Didn't some commoner just give birth to a new prince? Or has that baby story gone North West? groans audibly

[-] 3 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 4 years ago

You're right Builder after rereading this, "Brilliant and incisive" it was. Truly that is one of the best comments I have ever read on here.


[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

I've been wondering why the sudden absence, B. And I'll agree, last year's wedge-issue has become this year's-wedge issue. And the forum fell for it again.

Sneaky fukers, aren't they? Syria what?

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 4 years ago

Yeah, Syria, Syngenta, Monsteranto, Hudes/Fed disclosure, NSA blackmailing, whistleblower assassinations, ad infinitum.

Plenty of real news out there. Pity the real journalists get murdered by the mob.

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

How true, how true. With any luck, we'll have more Snowdens and Hudes in the near future.

I'm getting the impression some of these countries are none too happy right now with the revelation that our spying program has essentially been worldwide. Latin American seems especially fed up with our bullshit.

I welcome the day these countries start "kicking us to the curb" despite our threats and bullying to keep them in line.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 4 years ago

I welcome the day when our armed forces tell the oligarchs to fight their own damn invasions.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

"Got no time for Germans masquerading as Brit royalty."

You've piqued my curiosity yet again. What's the German connection? I thought Kate was all Brit.

[-] 4 points by Renneye (3874) 4 years ago

Windsor is not the original Royal's name. It's Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 4 years ago

Yes, and the Mountbatten side of the family were Battenburgs, also from Germany. The only non-German was Prince Phillip, who is Belgian.

[-] 3 points by Renneye (3874) 4 years ago

Oh yeah...thanks for the refresher course, Builder. It's been a while.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

Hmmm, so the Germans have taken over Britain after all. Well, it took 'em long enough.

And why not, they've taken over Amerika too, apparently, heheh.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 4 years ago

Might just be a far right issue. This from Operation Northwoods history.

"President Kennedy was pilloried by the super patriots as a 'no-win' chief . . . The Far Right became a fount of proposals born of frustration and put forward in the name of anti-Communism. . . Active-duty commanders played host to anti-Communist seminars on their bases and attended or addressed Right-wing meetings elsewhere."

Although no one in Congress could have known it at the time, Lemnitzer and the Joint Chiefs had quietly slipped over the edge.

According to secret and long-hidden documents obtained for Body of Secrets, the Joint Chiefs of Staff drew up and approved plans for what may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government. In the name of antiCommunism, they proposed launching a secret and bloody war of terrorism against their own country in order to trick the American public into supporting an ill-conceived war they intended to launch against Cuba."


[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

"Might just be a far right issue. This from Operation Northwoods history."

Well, my comment was half tongue-in-cheek, but now that you mention it . . .

I'll definitely be checking out that link directly. You have a bit of knowledge about such things yourself, B. Between you and Renneye, an impressive storehouse. And your link is a bit of a coincidence. I watched a YT clip last week that had someone suggesting the takeover of the US government began with JFK's assassination. It might have been Jesse Ventura's kid, I don't recall.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 4 years ago

I'm just blessed (and cursed) with a memory that won't quit.

Not sure when it began, but the takeover of the govt seems to be almost complete.

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

Damn, Ren, you're boundless knowledge of all things oligarchical comes thru again. You never cease to amaze me. Or at least impress, heheh.

[-] 3 points by Renneye (3874) 4 years ago

A kind of "Jack (or Jill) of all trades, master of none" has been the joy & bane of my life. It's okay though, as it makes for rather controversial conversation at times...but it gets me in a pile of trouble, too! Lol!

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 4 years ago

Yeah, it works that way for me too. :-)

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

Oh yeah. We need huge numbers to lay down their weapons and stop this insanity. But too many of them are young, dumb and impressionable for that to happen any time soon. But I don't think it should stop us from hoping.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 4 years ago

I met an older couple in Alaska whose daughter was supporting her husband

He has PTSD from having done tours in both Afghanistan and Iraq

I wonder how many sevicemen and their families are in the same very sad situation?

Then today a young woman who works at the local supermarket, who recently graduated university, and whom i have known for several years told me her boyfriend joined the Army

I could not share in her glee, as it made me think about my meeting with the previous couple in AK


[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

Hey Odin, it's great to hear from you. Hopefully all is going well.

I imagine there are countless service-people in the same predicament, unfortunately. And I know the feeling about not sharing in any glee. I have a few distant cousins and grand-cousins that have joined up in recent years. I'm out of touch with that part of the family (distance; they're in California) except for Christmas cards and they haven't really mentioned anything negative. In fact I get the impression my aunt and uncle are proud of them, but considering they're both quite intelligent, it's a bit of a letdown that they might be of the 'brainwashed masses.' I suspect they might be.

But there are quite a few members and ex-members of the military that are seeing the light, though sadly not near enough for my tastes.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 4 years ago

Replying here. The question i asked her was rather benign. I simply asked her what she thought of the Monsanto controversy. I did not want to follow it up when she basically ignored me because we were at her home for lunch, and a play-date for my granddaughter. She has also been a friend and mentor to my daughter who was her intern at one time.


And thanks, but you guys have been doing a splendid job without me

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

Thanks yourself, but we can always use an extra hand. ;-)

But I'll see you on another thread. I'm tired of bumping Zen's Obama-slathering post.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 4 years ago

Hey g...yes from my perspective, there does seem to be more of an awareness within the ranks that the wars we are involved in and the reasons we are in them are fucked-up

The military has a big prescence in Alaska, 9 bases total and Elmendorf AFB in Anchorage being the closest to where i was. I guess this is mainly because Alaska was at the front lines during the cold war days, and the Alluetian islands were in fact attacked during world War II

One of my daughters has been going to Adak island (which has an abandoned military base, and is over a 1,000 miles southwest of Anchorage) where she has done archaeology digs in a very remote area for 1-4 weeks...living in a tent... for the past three years. I worry about her when she is there as the military left the island a mess leaving unexploded ordnance laying around. It did not help when she brought me back a coffee travel mug with a cartoonish character on it that says Report Suspected Ordnance...dial 911

Last time i was there in AK, people were marveling at an air show that took place over the skies in Anchorage. For me though, all i could do was think of the terror that people must go through in far off lands when they see these planes that bring death and destruction

I have mixed feelings about being back as I miss my little granddaughter. She is probably at the cutest point in her life right now in terms of her outlook and understanding of life. She is also an extremely beautiful little thing with very curly hair

There is a lot for me to reflect on in my time in Alaska which will come out in bits and pieces over time

From a superior court judge whose husband is a potato farmer, and who side-stepped my question on the Monsanto controversy....to a young idealistic Washington state university student who had spent the last month salmon fishing on one of the most productive commercial fishing boats (22,000 lbs..... err was it 2,200 tons, or 122,000 lbs?) on Bristol Bay...remember...a little inland of that bay is where the huge proposed copper and , gold mine...Pebble Mine is supposed to be built..... to a heavily armed right wing zealot who believes the 2008 near melt-down was due to too much regulation, and who like many people here are content with fighting the left vs right battle..... albeit from the other side of course.... Like them or not, there are some very tough, interesting people living in AK

Anyway, i am learning the art of listening better which includes having read many of the comments here during my 6 weeks in Alaska. I must admit, i do feel a bit intimidated by you all being on top of so much that is going on, the great comments I have read and the research that has went into them...and using 3-4 syllabled words too! ;-)

It was just after spending so much time with my two and a half year old granddaughter (mostly speaking 1-2 syllable words ;-) and having taken on a couple of carpentry projects, and contributing around the house, i was too beat at the end of the day to be reading and commenting a lot on here. I do suspect that very ironically in these difficult times, that many people are super-busy, and that is one of the reasons why our struggle isn't further along,as people just don't have the time to comprehend what is going on. I did take the time though to also do a little twinkling mostly, and avoided stinkling for the most part

It was my aim before I left for AK to have no regrets on how i spent my time there...and i don't have any

And my granddaughter reminded me of why i am here, and she also reminded of how simple and joyful life can be

I do suspect for better or worse that she is developing my dry, quirky sense of humor though as she told my daughter that grandpa is always "joking me."


[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

It sounds like you have mixed emotions about being back, but it's good to see you on the forum again. Considering how slow it's been lately, we definitely could use your input. And it sounds like you had interactions with quite a diverse group while you were away. But I do have to ask, . . . what question about Monsanto did that judge side-step? And what was her non-response? Monsanto's been at the forefront of my thoughts lately, not surprisingly.

And a dry, quirky sense of humor is an asset, as you probably know. Your granddaughter will be better off because of it, I think.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 4 years ago

Tough situation to find yourself in.

I'm having to hold my tongue about all this royalist bleating over an infant.

The suicide rate of war vets and active servicemen is skyrocketing.

But, like in the financial sector, the PTB privatise the profits, and socialise the losses, all the while, demonising the term "socialism".

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

"Naah, the Brit royals whelped a sprog out of a commoner lass. They had to get some fresh blood into the mix. Too many pinheads coming out."

Oh yeah, I forgot about that.

"Whelped a sprog out of a commoner lass." Hahahah, damn B, I do enjoy your creative way with words. That's a talent, my friend.

[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 4 years ago

I'm trying. Very trying, at times.

Heheheheh. Got no time for Germans masquerading as Brit royalty.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 4 years ago

"Socialis[ing] the losses" in this case means people's lives

While not a lot of words were spoken between me and the parents of the woman whose husband has PTSD, the pain that they were going through was very evident


[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 4 years ago

Yes, it certainly is devastating.

The oligarchy used to call it collateral damage, as if they owned the people. Now, they favour non-combatant casualties, to satisfy that inanity called political correctness.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

" . . . royalist bleating over an infant."

Are we still talking about "North West?"

Hehehe, feckin' celebrities and their asinine baby names. What's the kid's middle name, by the way? "by North?"

At least that would be an homage.

[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 4 years ago

Naah, the Brit royals whelped a sprog out of a commoner lass. They had to get some fresh blood into the mix. Too many pinheads coming out.

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

Well thought-out response, Renneye. Glad to see you're not stuck inside the 'left vs right' 'Rupub vs Dems' group-think box as so many on this forum seems to be. The battle to co-opt this forum into the Democratic Party continues.


[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

Zen, you're capable of brilliance at times but when it comes to politics, uh, not so much. Just the opposite, in fact. You see republicans under every rock and your love for Obama is simply boggling.

" . . . Sir, with all of the respect that I do possess both for your person and accomplishments . . . "

You mean these accomplishments?


Maybe some from this list perhaps?


Or maybe some from this list, although there is a bit of repetition in the three:


"Blind" and "stupid fukers" are apt descriptions indeed. YOU stupid fuckers voted for this war-mongering traitor TWICE.



[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

You fukin scumbags will be voting for Hitlary in 2016, if she runs. Yea, we'll see how that works out.

You stupid fuckers think you'll kill the GOP but haven't put forth any plan as to how to actually do it. What, by voting for Dems every four years? Get a fucking clue, asshole. Now stop wasting my time with your partisan bullshit. Stick with what you do best, Zen:


Politics ain't your forté.


[-] 4 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 4 years ago

You know: living pay check to pay check really doesn't give me much time to worry about what the climate will be like when I'm dead and gone. And because both parties would allow the working class to continue working pay check to pay check, neither party will get my vote. Maybe if the Democrats see that they are losing votes to the Green Party, maybe they would stop taking working class America for granted. Democrats don't have to do shit about global warming because the Republicans are so bat shit crazy that they know your vote is a given. The Democrats got you by the short and curlies because they believe they are the only game in town. I believe voting for the Green Party, en mass, might change their perspective. No?

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

No dick-wad, you stuck your nose in by replying to my comment to Renneye.

And what you morons refuse to acknowledge is by not voting for EITHER of the two corrupt parties THAT'S how we establish that the public is fed up with this bullshit. Don't you get it???

The repelican party is done? Yeah, when you convince the 55 MILLION registered Republicans to change their blind party affiliation. Good fucking luck.

Tell you what, when you manage to convince a lowly MILLION to do just that, then get back to me. Until then, shut the fuck up.


[-] 2 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

You are confusing one side of the duopoly with a larger game plan- divide and conquer. Older than you, older than this nation. Same shit, different place and time.

"you stupid bitch you stupid bitch"

Really? And we all like the new greeting on your profile. Very nice.

Stocks are at record highs. Isn't that what you wanted?


[-] 1 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

"we fuking owned Congress."

Allowing everyone to feel that was all part of the plan. Its not the first time there was an uprising of Ds or Rs, and it wont be the last. And it will always come back, and it will always swing back too.

Its how the system is set up.

[-] 0 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

Like in 08 right? Shall we go back to that massive amount of using and abusing of campaigners for the corporate goal of more power?

FYI- the majority of people dont participate in this garbage system.

The biggest registered party is Independent.

The D and R parties are LOSING registers, not gaining.

The trends all show where the public wants to take this thing. And the hard core Dems and Reps are kicking and screaming the entire way.

Face it, you got played. I did too. We all did.

Its time to wake up Shaggy.


[-] 3 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago




[-] -2 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

"I HATE REPELICAANS . you do seem to fall for their bullshit with a regularity that is very disappointing."

And previously: " to pit one group of people against another - and he is correct"

So much for independent thinking :^)


[-] 0 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

Um, sorry I'm not a Republican...or a Repelican...or very right wing at all.

" wingnuts go off, they invariably kill: children, college kids, random movie goers"

Like bombs dropping on villiages? Or the 16k murders a year in this country? Or the 200k sexual assaults? Or what?


[-] -1 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

The two Dem loving (and hence Wall St and Establishment and Fascist and War loving) things "calling me out"

Sorry, while you phone bank for war criminals and get played I'll sit this one out. I don't roll like that. Been there, done that, got played, learned the hard truth.

Let us know when you catch up.


[-] 1 points by TorRox (-2) 4 years ago

We did that, 2009 and 2010. Remember how tight that leash got?


[-] -1 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

08 was a landslide victory, historic.

What did it get us?

More free trade deals, a Republican healthcare plan and massive bailouts. No movement on the environment, and an expansion of the wars.

Great plan shaggy. Yikes!



[-] -2 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

Obamacare? You can call it that, he even said he likes the term.

Call it whatever you want. Its a Republican plan and it sucks.

"if the bastards had stood up and stopped lying for once" - theres your key. Maybe next time they wont walk all over the ones that voted for em.

Yah right.

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

You left out " . . . with all of the respect that I do possess both for your person and accomplishments as much as the office of President itself."

I need not elaborate.

[-] -2 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

Yes. Yes. And yes.

[-] 0 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

Legalize everything.

[-] 0 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 4 years ago

Free the weed, stop arresting prostitutes. I think it's OK to fine the John's since most are cheapskates anyway.