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Forum Post: michael lotus idiot extrodinaire

Posted 9 months ago on Nov. 29, 2013, 8:55 a.m. EST by elf3 (2402)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Dear michael the economy is a construct and currently we are constructing a caste system not a healthy middle class we do not need to learn how to operate within a caste system... we need to stop trading with Communistic Regimes... where is the heavy hand regulating Death by China ... because isn't that the real reason people are becoming insolvent and needing to rely on safety nets ...which allows companies to continue to downsize all while retaining consumers courtesy of the taxpayer? We've never seen such heavy handed markups we've never seen such heavy handed government induced monopolization of the markets I hope you mention that in your book?

http://www.businessinsider.com/hong-kong-rich-live-in-mansions-and-poor-live-in-cages-2013-2

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2084971/Hong-Kongs-cage-homes-Tens-thousands-living-6ft-2ft-rabbit-hutches.html

http://deathbychina.com/

32 Comments

32 Comments


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[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20453) 9 months ago

The real problem with China is actually not that it is communist, politically, but that it has a capitalistic economy.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28001) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 months ago

As well as a ruling dictatorship.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20453) 9 months ago

True, but the real problems that are created with the environment and workers' rights etc. spew from capitalism, from the need of the system to create profit.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28001) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 months ago

Not really a whole lot of difference between an Imperial capitalistic dictatorship and a Democratic capitalistic dictatorship.

One difference would be that the Imperialistic one is more honest about being a dictatorship.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20453) 9 months ago

Very true.

[-] -2 points by darmand (-15) from Williamsport, PA 9 months ago

I don't know. Your analysis seems simplistic. There's many capitalist countries around China that are doing OK. Japan, South-Korea, etc... The countries in that area with bad political systems aren't doing so well. China and North-Korea come to mind. I don't favour capitalism, but if we want to figure out China's biggest problem I would say it's the dictatorship. They also have the problem of having a huge population. The dictatorship means people can't protest, everything in censored heavily, only a selected few are allowed to do business, etc... Dictatorships are never a good thing.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20453) 9 months ago

I was answering the post. There is nothing simple about China, that is the point. China has a dictatorship communist regime because that is what rose up out of it's history after the west came in and pillaged it. There are 1.3 billion mouths to feed in China. They don't think anything like us, to claim that they should have a political system like ours is silly. Jobs have moved there because capitalism is more recent there and jobs lower paying and more exploitative.

[-] -3 points by darmand (-15) from Williamsport, PA 9 months ago

Who said they should adopt a system like ours? Aren't we trying to change our system? I thought that was what Occupy wall all about. But yeah, I think a system where the people would have a voice would be better for China. I don't like dictatorships. That's why I joined Occupy. I favour anarchy. People should work together to create better cities, countries, and ultimately, a better world. Certainly, the west had a big impact on development in China, but I don't think we can blame one thing. It's a very complicated issue. That's for sure.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 months ago

What of the dictatorship at your doorstep?

http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-michigan-matters/

[-] -3 points by darmand (-15) from Williamsport, PA 9 months ago

You're right, that's pretty horrible too. Problems exist all around the world.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 months ago

Dismissive?

Yep.

I expected it.

Wanna talk about the Philly school system?

There's some links around here somewhere.

How about all the loony gun nutters in Pennsylvania?

Or are all these things too complicated for you as well?

[-] -2 points by darmand (-15) from Williamsport, PA 9 months ago

Dismissive? No, why? We were talking about China, so I commented about that. Not sure why you seem all upset. We can certainly talk about other problems like gun nutters in Pennsylvania. I don't think guns should be allowed at all to tell you the truth. I never understood why people are allowed to purchase guns.

Here I was talking to beautifulworld and you interrupted with some accusations. Same thing happened when I was discussing with zendog. Why do you do that? Just say what you have to say. If you want to talk about something particular, create a new posting about it, or ask nicely. Your interruptions come off as being rude.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 months ago

My daughter just got back from China.

I would have to say, you know little about China.

So I tried to bring you back to reality.

I'm just trying to bring you closer to home.

Why is it you think I'm upset? I'm not.

If you want a private conversation, it's best not to post on a open forum.

I find your insinuations to be ruder still.

[-] -1 points by darmand (-15) from Williamsport, PA 9 months ago

You come off as being aggressive when you cut in conversations with an accusatory tone. Perhaps it's me reading you wrong. It's hard to understand what people are trying to say sometimes on the Internet. If you were genuine in your effort for a constructive discussion, then I'm sorry I read you wrong. Cheers mate.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 months ago

Cheerio, old chap........:)

I didn't think you came here to actually discuss anything.

I was correct.

PS: there is nothing constructive about this thread anyway.

I even had to look the guy up, to find out here's just another libe(R)topian.

Are you one too?

[-] -3 points by darmand (-15) from Williamsport, PA 9 months ago

I think my discussion with beautifulworld is constructive. At least for me it was. I was able to learn from it. And, she or he provided good links for me to read. If you don't think it's interesting, than you should probably find one that is. Not sure why you would comment on something you find boring.

I'll leave you now. We'll just disagree. We don't seem like compatible personalities. That's OK. Not everyone is. You feel too negative for my taste. If you don't mind I'll stop engaging in discussions with you and participate with other users I find more worthwhile. No offence. There's just so many interesting threads here, we all have to pick what we want to talk about. I didn't come here to defend myself from rhetorical accusatory questions. Take care mate.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 months ago

What did you learn, from this rhetorical, accusatory, low information thread?

Moreover, what did learn about Mr. Lotus?

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by darmand (-15) from Williamsport, PA 9 months ago

It's not communist politically. Communism is an economic setup, not a political one. There never was a real communist economy anywhere, simply because, like Marx clearly said, you need to achieve a non-scarcity of goods to have communism. We haven't achieve that yet. Politically, China has been a dictatorship since the fall of the emperor.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20453) 9 months ago

China's politics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_China

China's economic system:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_market_economy

You are speaking of technicalities simply to cause complication.

[-] -3 points by darmand (-15) from Williamsport, PA 9 months ago

It's not because they call themselves communists that they are. Dictatorships don't usually call themselves that. Many used the term communist because it was considered the best system by Marx. They knew full well they weren't communists. Anyways, I don't think China is really capitalist either. It's capitalism for a selected few. I really believe the real problem is that they are a dictatorship. People there don't have a voice at all, that's worse than any economic system - socialist, communist, or capitalist.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20453) 9 months ago

Of course they are not truly communist in the formal definition of the word. That has never existed as Marx outlined it.

The extraction of profit is the biggest problem. That is the result of having a market capitalist economic system and it benefits the few because that is what capitalism does, it benefits the few, while it extracts from them all.

[-] -3 points by darmand (-15) from Williamsport, PA 9 months ago

True, but capitalism is strangely implemented in China. It's nothing like in Japan, South-Korea, Singapore, or other asian nations that are doing well enough. It would be nice to understand exactly why capitalism in China is not creating wealth like in those countries I mentioned. Sure, capitalism is bad, but it's working particularly bad in China for some reason. I think it's because the markets are heavily controlled by the dictatorship. It profits the big cities more than anything. That's why places like Shenzhen, Beijing, etc... are flowing economically, but the rest of the country is really poor. Very strange indeed. Last time I was in Shanghai, it felt outer worldly. The hyper modern transit system mixed with very poor neighbourhoods. It's like money only flows for certain things. Very unbalanced.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20453) 9 months ago

China went to capitalism straight from an agricultural economy. That is largely why it is different.

[-] -3 points by darmand (-15) from Williamsport, PA 9 months ago

Good point. It will be interesting to see what happens in the upcoming decades. You seem very knowledgeable. Are you an economist?

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20453) 9 months ago

It will be interesting. China is a place to watch. And, thanks for the laugh.

[-] -3 points by darmand (-15) from Williamsport, PA 9 months ago

Ya, definitely a place to watch. Went there a few times and it changes very quickly. I like shenzhen quite a bit. I would love to visit villages though. Haven't done that yet.

[-] 3 points by elf3 (2402) 9 months ago

We are all paying more in taxes so companies like WalMart can make profits that make them richer than nations all while putting our sovereignty at risk why so one percent can see riches unseen. it is the new aristocracy and we can change this we don't need to adapt to this new lunacy we just need to regulate against it

[-] 2 points by elf3 (2402) 9 months ago

https://movetoamend.org

Michael lotus tells us we need to adjust to the new America ...generation fucked are we going to comply? Hell no! No new normal...move to amend corporations won't tell us we have to adapt to less democracy

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 months ago

Congratulations.

You've finally discovered libe(R)topians.

[-] 3 points by elf3 (2402) 8 months ago

To all the so-called Libertarians...."The ability to swing your fists ends at my face" ... How far are we going to let corporations swing their fists into our lives, intruding our privacy, polluting and taking our public lands for private gain, restricting the internet, bidding our airways and the people owned RF Spectrum, paying off politicians to make laws ... to only restrict Americans from interfering with corporations or competing with their business while allowing corporations to tread the hell all over us and trample our entrepreneurship? This would certainly not coincide with Libertarian beliefs - if you are a person, you're being regulated - if you are a corporation you are regulating the people. Corporations are enjoying the privilege of being equal yet separate under the law - this is wholly unconstitutional. Two sets of rights as "people" a corporate citizen enjoys privileges the common man does not such as not going to jail for murder (paying fines instead of facing time).

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 months ago

Since Leo is unlikely to post this one, I'll give it to you here.

Their plans for the next year will enter the development phase this month.

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/20400-alecs-extreme-legislative-agenda-for-2014#13860932370181&action=collapse_widget&id=2532552