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Forum Post: Look it’s time to stop pretending that Republicans have a place at the table.

Posted 2 years ago on April 29, 2012, 8:18 a.m. EST by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

282 Comments

282 Comments


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[-] 12 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

I believe it is our duty to protect the free speech rights of both the Dixie Chix and Ted Nugent.

The first amendment is not needed to protect speech that people feel is "acceptable" it is meant to protect speech that is controversial or politically incorrect.

[-] 2 points by CarlosFenito (36) 2 years ago

We need to stop speech that I disagree with! that's what the government is there for!

[-] 4 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

LOL

We should burn people at the stake if they say things we don't agree with. That is what the government is there for.

Or we could chop off their heads and put them on poles on main street.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

but don't not talk about your job online

[-] 1 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

Freedom of speech also means we're free to call retarded, retarded (like Ted Nugent).

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

I agree, however I personally would not use the word retarded. That would give him an excuse.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

"We"? kemosabe

yep US only has 41%

World Military budget in Billions (percent total)

  • 1,630 World Total
  • 711 United States 41%
  • 143 China 8.2%
  • 71.9 Russia 4.1%
  • 62.7 United Kingdom 3.6 %
  • 62.5 France France 3.6%
  • 54.5 Japan Japan 3.3&
  • 48.2 Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabiaz 2.8%
  • 46.8 India India 2.5%
  • 46.7 Germany Germanyy 2.8%
  • 37.0 Italy Italyy 2.3%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures


Global Arms Sales By Supplier Nations

39% United States

18% Russia

8% France

7% United Kingdom

5% Germany

3% China

3% Italy

11% Other European

5% Others

http://www.globalissues.org/article/74/the-arms-trade-is-big-business#GlobalArmsSalesBySupplierNations

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

As BHO's "justice" department determines if it will impose the imperial President's will over that of the people of the states of WA and CO you will see many who depend on incarceration for their living offering testimony though they have no medical background or knowledge of science.

So it is with our military we sell the guns and the protection from guns and many "jobs" are created, between useless incarceration and war we keep ourselves from becoming too rich. At least Orwell thought so, so do I.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

War is our biggest business, has been for many decades, right in front of Hollywood, which is kinda our publicly arm of our main business.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago
[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Damn matt you're a clever fellow, that was quick.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I agree with that, my point being that people who have long since given up on that concept, and those who will always vote for a tax cut but never an increase, must not be allowed to determine policy.

[-] 4 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Must not be allowed?

What if a the people in that persons district want a tax cut but never an increase? I am not saying that is the case but it may be in some districts.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Then they can sit in the corner with the other children till the grownups get things figured out, if you see the top rate go from 90% to 15% while the economy tanks and the debt skyrockets then you should sit with the other children who think that ice cream everyday is great and tax cuts are always good and let others run things for a bit.

[-] 4 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Yes, however if a majority in the district you represent wants it that way is it not your duty to represent them?

Or should you ignore the constituents in the district you represent?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

you should convice them of the right thing to do, that's what being a leader is

[-] 4 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

That is not how our government is set up. We have three branches. The executive, legislative and judicial. The legislative branch, congress was set up to be bicameral for a reason.

I am talking about elected representatives. Their job is to represent the people in their district.

Presidents and Governors are executives and are supposed to lead.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

congressmen lead too, if they can't conviced the marjority of reason they might not win the seat but as long as they told them look I'm going to raise taxes then I guess they elected him to do that

[-] 4 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Many many districts in 2010 voted for representatives that said they will lower their taxes and cut the federal budget.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

people are often misled, instead of led, when the people have no truth, how can you blame them?

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

I am not misled. I would prefer the government spend less.
I would prefer to pay less taxes.

First we need to end crony capitalism.

After that we need to make some hard choices. Social Security, Medicare, and Defense are 70% of the federal budget.

We need to halt military intervention overseas. We need to raise the retirement age because people are living longer and are healthier longer. When these programs were created the average lifespan was 58.7 and it is currently 78.6.

People need to plan for their future and not expect the government to take care of them. In the past people took care of their parents when they got old. Now they want to ship them off to a state run old folks home paid for by medicare and SSI.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I'm sure you would like more candy for dinner too, now go sit in the corner with the other children.

How about this instead we apply Social Security tax to first dollar to last all forms of income and it would have enough money forever, why not those who have done so well kick in a little for the retirement of the people who made it all possible?

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Actually you have that backwards. I am one of the ones who does not want candy for dinner. I am not a child so I don't need the government to be my nanny/parent and I will not go sit in a corner.

The whole program is for people who are want their candy now and are to materialistic to prepare for their future. They chose the expensive car, flat screen TV, new living room set, go out to dinner every other night. Meanwhile they put nothing away for retirement. So now the folks in Washington created a program that takes money out of their check for them and puts it away. The government does nothing to make that money grow. The money I have been putting away personally was in vested in stocks and bonds and has grown significantly.

I would like to opt out of the whole program. Put nothing in and get nothing out. Let me be an adult and take care of myself. My parents will be living with me when they are older so I will take care of them. People need to start acting like adults and taking care of themselves and thier family.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Joe Joe Joe - So far their debt to society - reparations for their criminal activity that caused the worldwide economic meltdown. Have you forgotten that all of those corporations are people in the eyes of the law? Then there are the flesh and blood real people - the appendages of the corporate person - they are also due to pay restitution for their crimes in surrogate action for their corporate body.


[-] 0 points by JoeTheFarmer (1983) 4 minutes ago

I did not name them because Wall Street did not refuse to pay their debt. Wall Street is not a person.

Who specifically on wall street are you talking about and what debt did they refuse to pay? ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

So you bundle all of the investors on wall street together because of a group of cheaters who gave mortgages to folks they should not have and then bundled and sold them down the line.

Anyone with an ETrade, Ameritrade, Fidelity, Scottrade... account can trade on Wall Street from their PC.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

wall street refused to pay the money necessary to support the general welfare

[-] 1 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

http://www.rurdev.usda.gov/Home.html

America’s grow-a-row volunteers have helped save lives gleaning the fields of the produce left behind.

The USDA has numerous projects to help farmers in rural areas. Life on the farm may be very satisfying. Eighty years ago there was a drought covering large areas of North America. The weather conditions combined with many years of widespread poor farming practices created the Great Dust Bowl of the 1930s, which lasted nearly a decade in some areas. In response the government established the Soil Erosion Service, which was transferred and reorganized under the Department of Agriculture and the Resettlement Administration to mitigate this national disaster.

Anyone who was an adult during the Great Depression would probably be over 100 years old now. Still we hear that the economic conditions today are the worst it has been since then. It appears the US was collapsing and that emergency legislation had to be passed by Roosevelt and the "New Deal" Democrats to prevent a total collapse. For a decade nearly a half million refuges from Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas, Missouri, and other states fled to California to escape the Dust Bowl.

Keynesian Economics requires the government to intervene to support the troubled economy. Obama has received bad advice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?playnext=1&index=0&feature=&v=TRw-OQYDe2M&list=PLB2D49C0052A45996

[-] 0 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

This first picture on your link is the perfect example of how the government gets it wrong. Solar panels to grow grapes and win an award for most energy efficient winery! Sure that sounds earth friendly and gee wiz green but who does the wine really help? What a waste of money!

People helping people always do it more efficiently than the government. America’s grow-a-row does not "glean the fields for produce left behind". Grow a row has plowed, seeded, weeded, watered, harvested, and delivered over 1,000,000 pounds of produce to poor hungry people . This is one small group, in one county, in one state.

[-] 1 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

Are you a farmer? Has the US Department of Agriculture given you anything, aid, subsidies, advice, money?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tms8ye8mw_k&feature=related

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Actually I am a computer programmer. I have never received aid from the government. I believe people should help people because the government sucks at it.

JoeTheFarmer comes from this: http://americasgrowarow.org/about

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Nope. just the ones doing the toxic deals and the institutions they work for.


[-] -1 points by JoeTheFarmer (1983) 40 minutes ago

So you bundle all of the investors on wall street together because of a group of cheaters who gave mortgages to folks they should not have and then bundled and sold them down the line.

Anyone with an ETrade, Ameritrade, Fidelity, Scottrade... account can trade on Wall Street from their PC. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 0 points by regimechange (15) 2 years ago

FactsRFun has his facts wrong. The Constitution does NOT say "provide for the common welfare". It says this:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/preamble/

"Provide for the common" and "promote the general" are worlds apart.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Like I say your ok with government as long as it only does what you say in other words if you are King. Take your reading of the consitution it also says "provide for the common welfare" why is that any less important? Now see this is government we all get a say , but you want only the wealthy to have a say, you want to be King.

Aren't we more tranquail when we can see a doctor?

[-] -1 points by sannhet (-4) 2 years ago

So now you're an investment adviser, DKAtoday?

Which is true, then: You've never been to Wall Street? Or you've never been to Coon Rapids? Or [where my money is] you've never been to either?

Don't just reply: Let's get this over with: Post proof one way or the other.

[-] 0 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

There is a reason for there being money in the first place. How can people understand what the value of money is? The fact that individuals can achieve great personal wealth beyond what they could ever spend responsibly in their lifetime is evidence of a flaw in the system. It’s analogous to a cancer, an uncontrolled cellular growth that deprives normal tissues of growth factors.

Billionaires do not know what to do with that much money. What did the banks do with the $700+ billion bailout funds? They invested it overseas in developing markets instead here in the United States! It’s worse than this. Recall on 9/10/2001 Defense Secretary Rumsfeld said that the Pentagon lost track of $2.3 trillion??? 25% of military spending cannot be accounted for.

The accumulation of money beyond living expenses and retirement is something analgous to financial tumor. If the excess money is spent charitably it is benign. If the excess money is spent with avarice it is malignant.

Ted Nugent is patriotic enough to make a political statement. Many musicians are not. Government has been wrong about a lot of important things. It is up to the people to tell it by saying so: health, jobs, housing, education, economy, the wars, embryonic stem cells, and 9/11 and more.

TedNugent Star Spangled Banner Live

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE45DCRzFOM

Ted Nugent Star Spangled Banner at Dallas Cowboys game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz8QXngF6W8&feature=endscreen&NR=1

[-] -1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

"What did the banks do with the $700+ billion bailout funds?"

They paid it back with interest.

I do not believe in bail outs however TARP was a loan program.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

So you really hate America, I see, you long for those Mad Maxx days, every man for himself, let the ladys beware heh?

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

No. I never said anything about every man for himself.

If people want the government to be their nanny and participate in a program where the government takes money out of your check each week and gives it back to you when you are old fine. Go for it. I am OK with that. I just do not like being forced into that program. I would rather do it myself because I would make better investment choices.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Exactly - like the criminals of WallStreet! Good one Farmer except that you forgot to name the criminal who is unwilling to pay their debt - WallStreet.


[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (1983) 5 hours ago

" Why do you keep implying that I do not believe there should be a government? Stock, bonds, and contracts can exist among honest people without government however we need to have government for situations where people refuse to honor their debt. That is certainly a role for government ".

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

I did not name them because Wall Street did not refuse to pay their debt. Wall Street is not a person.

Who specifically on wall street are you talking about and what debt did they refuse to pay?

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Tell ya what. Read any news article on the cause of the meltdown - any news article - it will point directly at wallstreet. But seeing as you have apparently missed all of this (?) ( coma? ) you can watch a good and very easy to follow documentary - not too many large words - maybe you can have an individual with some intelligence watch it with you to help explain the meaning. Nice that you can pause the program if you need to do this.

Inside job: http://documentarystorm.com/inside-job/


[-] 1 points by sannhet (0) 2 minutes ago

So now you're an investment adviser, DKAtoday?

Which is true, then: You've never been to Wall Street? Or you've never been to Coon Rapids? Or [where my money is] you've never been to either?

Don't just reply: Let's get this over with: Post proof one way or the other. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

response to items below:

So you are OK with government as long as it only does what you say? Are you going to let me not pay for wars and prisons? Sound to me like you want to be King, I get that, it is what all conservatives want.

oh and stocks and bonds are legal instruments which do not exist without government

[-] -1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

I am OK with limited government. I would be a fool if I let those in power do whatever they please.

The constitution states that the government should provide for the common defense. I agree with that role for government. It makes sense. I do not believe funding troops overseas is covered under that. I believe we are way over extended militarily. We are spending ten times more than we should be, often on things that have nothing to do with the common defense.

As for prisons, the constitution states that the government will ensure domestic tranquility. I believe putting criminals in prisons is part of that equation. I do not however believe that many of the people in prison should be there. If I chose to smoke marijuana that is my business as long as I am not causing harm to another citizen. If I murder, rob, or injure another and that fact is proven beyond a reasonable doubt, yes, I should be sent to prison.

"oh and stocks and bonds are legal instruments which do not exist without government"

Why do you keep implying that I do not believe there should be a government? Stock, bonds, and contracts can exist among honest people without government however we need to have government for situations where people refuse to honor their debt. That is certainly a role for government.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

of course those "stocks" and "bonds" are worthless without government, too bad

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Where did you get the impression that I don't believe there should be a government? I never said that.

The government did not give me stocks or bonds. I put money away each month to buy stocks because I want to own part of a company however small that ownership is I believe in that company. IT is a small amount but over time it adds up. $10 a day is $3,650 a year. I bring my lunch to work instead of going out. Buying bonds is a loan to a company that will be repaid. They do not return as much but are safer.

None of this has anything to do with the government.

[-] 2 points by Kevinkyle (20) 2 years ago

Excellent point, I would guess it’s because “crap” pants draft dodging NRA loving generational traitor Ted McNugent is armed to his teeth and “Thinks” he has the Courage to incite Civil War. Let’s face it, he’s a sort of talented guitarist but unfortunately he is not musically creative and he’s never had any vocal gift. If anything he’s just trying to increase sales of his old shallow second-rate albums to a portion of a new foolhardy generation deceived he’s a modern day apocalyptic Colleague. Unfortunately they “will” see this old spineless turncoat geezer, hobbling off in the opposite direction. More hopefully destroyed by an expert in Krav Maga? I’ll volunteer for that confrontation and he can bring any weapon he wants and stand before me for 10 seconds after which he will find it firmly inserted in his “CRAP” delivering orifice. Not sure yet if that is his ass or “Big” mouth. I’m for PEACE FIRST but I’m no PACIFIST. Neither was the “MAN” I “Choose” (LONG LIVE CHOICE) to serve every day!

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

You know a lotmore about Nugent than I do, but thank you for your input, I was sort of taken back about how many that support the GOP got outraged when someone suggested war might be a bad thing, many on the premise that it somehow offend America, then the same people rally around the things Nugent says, we should wake up and become aware of this reality and deal with it.

[-] 2 points by MaryS (678) 2 years ago

Elizabeth Warren for keynote speaker at DNC Convention 2012 petition. http://www.change.org/petitions/president-of-the-united-states-select-elizabeth-warren-as-keynote-speaker-dnc-convention-2012 . Please sign if you agree

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

This would really be a good thing, the Ds need to win that seat and they should think about becoming a majority party by reaching out to the people not just the wealthy.

[-] -2 points by tiesa (-5) 2 years ago

Regardless of whether the "Ds" or "Rs" win, in the end the seat will be filled by a corporate-controlled puppet. So why don't you stop posting Democratic Party co-optation promos and contribute something constructive?

[-] 1 points by Kevinkyle (20) 2 years ago

Didn't talk about Ds or Rs just Tp it was a very: "something constructive"?

[-] -2 points by tiesa (-5) 2 years ago

Why don't you quit trying to spin everything to put the Democratic Party in the best possible light? They are the flip side of the Republicans, both corrupt, joined at the hip and controlled by the corporate fascists. We will NOT allow you and your confederates to use this forum to co-opt OWS!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Take a look at the world, if you can't see a difference then you're blind. I'm just getting started when we take the GOP down.

[-] -1 points by tiesa (-5) 2 years ago

No cigar. I'm not buying the "Rs are worse than the Ds so let's support the Ds" BS, and I am no longer pulling levers on rigged voting machines to select the lesser of two evil puppets - both on the hands of the same global elite masters:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/192687/hacking-democracy

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

and I'm not buyin' gravity

so I will jump off this cliff with thee....

(saw it in 07)

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

;),

but it takes time, can we do nothing till all are ready?

[-] -1 points by tiesa (-5) 2 years ago

Thank you for openly admitting that your strategy is to tell OWS that meaningful change is impossible, "resistance is futile" and their only alternative is to come back into the false-choice two-puppet fold - on the side of the Democrats, of course.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

oh I don't know some might say paying off the debt by taking the trust funds is change some might not....

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

if one holds a large amount of wealth

that extends their influence by who they can hire

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

In a virtual world, money becomes kingdoms, which rule the real world if we give money the power to.

[-] 0 points by tiesa (-5) 2 years ago

Like you, I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you digging desperately to find one thing Bushbama did right, and suggesting that consequently he should be forgiven for keeping Guantanamo open, turning Af-Pak into a 24-carat clusterfuck, and signing NDAA 2012, HR347, HR3606, HR658 and the Patriot Act renewal?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I don't doubt you have blocked all knowledge of the things I speak of from your mind long ago.

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[Removed]

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I did sign, thank you for posting.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Thanks for that. I signed 'em all.

[-] 2 points by MaryS (678) 2 years ago

Yeah, thanks guys :)

[-] -2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Fuck the DNC, Occupy Tampa will be there making lots of noise.

[-] 2 points by MaryS (678) 2 years ago

Just don't get yourself hurt, hchc. Please act like grownups and don't give OWS a bad name.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Don't worry hchc won't be near the place.

[-] -2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

haha

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

oh that's right you'll be inside,spinnin' 4 the GOP

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[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

As eloquent as always.

http://www.hchc.edu/

[-] 2 points by ClearTarget (216) 2 years ago

You're right factsrfun. Progress in this world will come when we stop listening to these looney bins. They have nothing of value to offer except backwards mentality.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Allowing this one note party, “I will always cut taxes, but never raise them”, “anyone who talks bad about war is a traitor to their country” bunch, pull the whole country into their madness just because we won’t stand together against the 30% or so that feel this way is madness.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

That's right.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Good morning Gypsy, just posted on "justice" hope you like it.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-biggest-myth-in-america-is-that-anybody-gets-j/

[-] 0 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Thanks, I just got up now, so I'll check it out:)

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Thanks I'm in and out all day today.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

frf - you are not suggesting some sort of double standard in the media are you? Why they are just so"fair and balanced". I mean look at all of the great "ground breaking news coverage" the the movements against greed and corruption are getting..................(what?)............( sorry frf give me a sec)...........(seriously? boy is My face red)....... Never Mind it appears I was thinking of something else somewhere else.

Carry on.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

The liberal media always beats up on anyone defending America, like poor Ted, or wait a minute did that issue not come out yet? How many Clear Channels have cleared him off? Or was he even on?

But it goes even deeper to the 30% or so that still think Bush did a good job.....they are all without reason or hope...we must save our nation from them.

[-] 4 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yep and looks like more and more agree with that sentiment everyday. How about the "news of " independent "news" coverage happening for May Day. {:-]) We move forward and are gaining support - someone must be doing something right. Hey?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I see the defend the GOP crowd are hard at it today, we must be making headway.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Anxiety and out-right fear can be powerful motivators.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Not to mention money.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yes - For some a real drug/aphrodisiac. Helps them to keep marching blindly on.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

we let money buy too much....

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Some let it buy their SOULS.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

just posted Fundmentals of Cap, part two

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Great, thanks.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

bugs fix computer faster too, needed to do clean up

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

You better believe it, they've been burning up the wires!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

yeah well, I just saw hchc over defending the poor 1% from tax increases, there are three out there hope everyone understands their reason for being here and aren't fooled

[+] -4 points by veritat (-4) 2 years ago

The true activists would love to see the puppets on the left hand (Democrats) and the puppets on the right hand (Republicans) of their common corporate puppetmasters knock each other right out of this forum and, if possible, this plane of existence.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

All the "true" activist must work for the GOP.

[-] -2 points by veritat (-4) 2 years ago

My Favorite Tweets About The Corporate Controlled Demopublican Puppets:

About the Republicans:

The point of the #GOP is to make the elitist #Democratic party seem like a desirable alternative to would-be radicals.

https://twitter.com/#!/RadicalLeftist/status/193929148547338241

About the Democrats:

Democrats and "99% Spring" listen carefully: One cannot simultaneously be the problem and solve the problem.

https://twitter.com/#!/Mike_Peake/status/193748509009256449

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

keeping the heads in the sand and pretent the world goes away that has never worked but some keep doing it

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

That would depend on the activist.

[-] -3 points by veritat (-4) 2 years ago

Or in your personal case "slacktivist". Or so I am told...

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Really? By whom and in what way?

[-] 3 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

He's just a robot, and has been told nothing and learned less.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I can’t send or reply to messages in the system, won’t let me access the text box.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Do you receive messages?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

yes, can't get into text box to respond

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

You hit the nail on the head there.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

my PM has beened bugged can't get into box for response not sure if I've been hacked, list of three seem most likely, tm,rj,hc

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Message the moderator.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

debugging my system tonight then see only have problem on this site though

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I can relate. Maybe you are feared. I never experienced a computer attack until I started to be noticed here. Now my system is alerting on attempts that it fends off.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

didn't catch it in last nights run going to do another after I catch up here a bit,

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I wish you success in tracking down the problem.

It is 6:55pm here and I just got home. I caught a little of the Twin Cities ABC 5:00pm report and saw that the OWS & Occupy movements made it onto prime time. Not much more then a mention but it did say that there was activity all across the USA and that the Gathering in New York looked to be the largest gathering In NY to date. A mention on prime time in the Twin Cities - a rare event. I look forward to catching up on other reports.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

man I just down to this one, had been letting my business slide a bit to keep up here, but hey it's mine so I do as I please :).

Great to hear about OWS getting on air, we will be hearing a lot about the TEA in the next few months because they invole themselvses in primaries a lot, I hope OWS gets there by next cycle, I fear we will lose our steam if we don't get out there more and these days its eletions they talk about, no matter your opinion of the system if you care about OWS it seems you want us on TV and the best way to do that is affect an election.

oh on the bug did a system reboot, needed to anyway, clean for now :)

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

You give yourself too much credit....

as Will Durant said, 'As we acquire knowledge, things do not become more comprehensible, but more mysterious."

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

No you give yourself too much that is response to question you didn't see, but yes we know the three, wonder if you are all just one or if they have three of you on the payroll.

[-] 1 points by Kevinkyle (20) 2 years ago

Excellent point, I would guess it’s because “crap” pants draft dodging NRA loving generational traitor Ted McNugent is armed to his teeth and “Thinks” he has the Courage to incite Civil War. Let’s face it, he’s a sort of talented guitarist but unfortunately he is not musically creative and he’s never had any vocal gift. If anything he’s just trying to increase sales of his old shallow second-rate albums to a portion of a new foolhardy generation deceived he’s a modern day apocalyptic Colleague. Unfortunately they “will” see this old spineless turncoat geezer, hobbling off in the opposite direction. More hopefully destroyed by an expert in Krav Maga? I’ll volunteer for that confrontation and he can bring any weapon he wants and stand before me for 10 seconds after which he will find it firmly inserted in his “CRAP” delivering orifice. Not sure yet if that is his ass or “Big” mouth. I’m for PEACE FIRST but I’m no PACIFIST. Neither was the “MAN” I “Choose” (LONG LIVE CHOICE) to serve every day!

[-] 1 points by anonbankster (16) 2 years ago

The 99 Percent is a tax bracket. Not political afflilation. If you think Republicans are not part of the 99 Percent then you are pretty naive about what OWS is advocating for.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Elected Republicans have almost all signed a pledge that restricts their actions and places the 1% above the country, those that have signed have no place at the adult table.

[-] 1 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

It’s amazing that the Republicans think they have any chance of winning the next election. I hope it’s fueled by media hype produced to fill time between news of atrocities in the Middle East, downward economic spiral in Europe and Japan, growth in China and stagnation in the United States. During the eight years of Republican leadership by the GW Bush administration we saw failures in our national defense, national security, law enforcement, environmental protection, emergency management, financial sector, and economy. Republicans have reinvented themselves and promise to continue the Bush policies with minor adjustments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruM8H_j-jL4&list=PL0D0C37C27B02E544&feature=view_all

Does OWS need to participate in the political conventions?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Thanks for that link, the truks are always good, the state houses are looking good for the GOP, and the Senate could swing, with all the money they are pumping out there and OWS wanting to keep their hands clean and all, but I am hopeful that there are enough people beginning to realize that caring about the power and influence of the super wealthy is not just jealously, that it can come from a love of country and respect for what those that went before us did to get what we have.

[-] 1 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

Change means movement. Movement means friction. Only in the frictionless vacuum of a nonexistent abstract world can movement or change occur without that abrasive friction of conflict.--Saul Alinsky.

Think of it this way ... if you think conservatism is immoral (and an aberration to humanity), don't think some secret law of political correctness obligates you to remain silent.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

There is nothing secret about what I am saying, I am saying it plainly we must stop allowing policy to be dictated by children, if that means making everybody sit in the senate till they had their say so be it, when their done talking then vote, a day, a week, a month, a year, a decade.

[-] 1 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

I agree, they simply don't want a place at the peoples table. Narcissism is their official party platform, they are the party of religious fanaticism, tribalism, racism, war, violent oppression, slaughter, poverty, illiteracy, and everything bad (and conservatives, as a general rule, have always been this same thing, the enemies of progress, by definition, the defenders of the status quo).

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

It is known.

That’s a Game of Thrones thing, but yes what you say is true. I like to as much as possible understand all side of things, and what I believe is they sincerely want to advantage their children going forward, I understand that it is where kings come from, it is why kings normally rule people if you look at the long run of things. It also explains conservative policies to a T as far as I can see.

[-] 1 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

Right, I'm not saying there's a complete lack of good intentions on the part of conservatives (as misguided as their approach might be, and as objectively false their definition of "good" is). Nonetheless, they have a perpetual disregard for the rights and lives of others, and regardless of their intentions towards their own family, this fits the textbook definition of sociopathy.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Having taken some corporate ethics classes, I believe they are sociopaths by design, I mean since they are people and all. I saw you in the other thread as well, might want to take a reply or two before deciding on people’s IQ, I do, you might be surprised what’s out there.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Well, if they would stop trying to steal the table, and denying that it has a right and left side, and tip it over so it would be "balanced", refusing to take turns, and wash their hands, before they touch people, then maybe they could have a seat at the table, on a probationary basis of course.

[-] 2 points by jbgramps (159) 2 years ago

Republicans’ and allied conservatives are roughly 50% of the nation. They have a place at the table. Doesn’t much matter if you or I like it or not. They can’t be ignored or brushed off. And that’s an objective statement from someone who dislikes them.

[-] 4 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

There is no denying that they are a presence. My parents had a birthday party for my sister. A skunk found a way into our chicken house and was killing the chickens. He was a presence that couldn't be denied but he wasn't invited into the party.

Reasonable conduct is not an unreasonable price to pay to be able to play. There are ample examples from history that sociopaths have been treated differently from sane people. And it doesn't much matter if you or I like it or not. The skunk wasn't ignored either.

When people say that they can't do something, I believe them. When people say they won't do something, I believe them. When people say that other people can't do something that harms so one, I am skeptical.

[-] 2 points by jbgramps (159) 2 years ago

I like your skunk analogy. Being born and raised on a farm, with lots of skunks around, I can relate to it. The republicans won’t go away just because some don’t like them.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

I believe strongly in cause and effect and I am not naive enough to think that the means they are comfortable with will be abandoned lightly.

I tried to urge a skunk out from under a brooder house with a pointed spear that would fit through the hail screen floor. You remember the one about boiling a frog one degree at a time? I would get him close to the hole he had dug to get in and he would release a little odor and move back from it. Time passed until finally, in frustration, I settled it with a .22. That doesn't mean that he lost gracefully. It did mean that I slept in the barn for a few days, burned my clothes, bathed in tomato juice (cold). and pondered my folly.

When I think about the Tea Party and the national debt "negotiation," I recall this incident. You are the sort of person to really understand what I am talking about.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

LOL - great comparative story.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Principles should be submitted to real world tests where possible. Someone holding your children hostage (perish the thought) may demand a place at your breakfast table but do expect the Magna Carta to come from it.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

do = don't ? The rethugs in office have absolutely taken the public hostage. Time to vote the very visible ones out, I do not exclude the blue dog democrats either. It is just that so many of the rethugs are jumping up and down saying pick me pick me. I feel that the request should be honored.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

I would be honored to grant their request that is so subtle that, to them, was subliminal.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yes they are acting about as smart as a box of rocks - and so - just as subtle as an earthquake. LOL

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

hard to play chess with a three year old, not that three year olds don't have rights, just not the right to make everyone play only three year old games

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Hear, hear!!

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

god I hope somebody does.......just hearing what these people have been saying, clearly is all we really need to do

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

I guess, somebody needs to do some more spade work. What's this? A short straw? Hmmmm?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

hey I think there are like a hunderd web sites out there diggin' to the truth or something like that, but I don't know why they have to, all you got to do is roll the tape and listen.....

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/topoftheticket/la-na-tt-religious-right-gays-20120503,0,1873930.story

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Thanks for this VERY timely post. I didn't see it before and I'm dying to get into the conversation!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Hey thanks for coming by, the crux of this is, that there are about 30% of the people who have lost all reason, and we must remove their lackeys from government.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Yes, and we need to foster a spiritual awakening that will transform this nation from an aquisitive society into a cultured society that cares about the people of this planet and all other living things.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I think that we should ask the question, What do we let money buy? Anything it wants, or are there some things too precious to be cheapened by allowing them to be purchased, like the government, education, healthcare.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

That is very to the point. For profit health care? For profit prisons? For profit religion? Is nothing sacred anymore?

When mining companies carve up mountains and slurry them with cyandide is that okay simply because it makes a few people money?

Man, we have really abdicated our spiritual natures and let them be completely overtaken by a cold, hard, cynical view of existance.

It's really scary.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

The right has successfully couched the augment in “freedom” vs, “government” as we know, at the same time they portray “free enterprise” as the unseen hand of God, so any interference with it will only fail, because only pure unguided capitalism can be free of the failings of man. So all this leads to it is the God given right of all to enjoy their money as they wish, or use it for their benefit as they wish. Now we place limits on this, sex, drugs, and rock and roll all the good things in life, maybe not that last one. Anyway, we also don’t let people buy kidneys, so the representatives of the 1% get together and decide what we can and cannot “buy”. The more things that fall into the “for sale” group, the more like Kings the wealthy live, I think we should stop working our whole lives to support Kings and start building lives for ourselves and our children and part of that is asking the question just how much power should money have?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

a lot more people knew about what the Dixie Chicks said

that and ted voiced an opposition to a name not an issue

[-] 0 points by friendlyopposition (574) 2 years ago

I agree that Nugent was out of line with what he said. He crossed the line. But, the facts would show that the Dixie Chicks voiced opposition to a person - President Bush - not just an issue.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

the issue of NO WAR

[-] -1 points by friendlyopposition (574) 2 years ago

I know what the issue is. This is what they said "we don't want this war, this violence, and we're ashamed that the President of the United States (George W. Bush) is from Texas"

When I say "not just an issue" that can also be interpreted as "in addition to an issue" or "as well as an issue." As you can see in the quote, they made a statement against the President and the war. The part that got them into trouble with the audience, was the part about the President. Countless artists make statements against the war - and there is no flash back on that.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

a nation is responsible for it's wars

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 2 years ago

I disagree. A clear majority of Australians did not want our armed forces to join the coalition invading Iraq. The research by independent media here had already disclosed the falsehoods of the reasons for invasion.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

yep

the US closed it's eyes and decide to believe Bush's lie about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction

[-] 1 points by friendlyopposition (574) 2 years ago

I agree. I don't know what your point is, or how it relates to the issue at hand, but I agree.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Are you saying that Nugent was not critizing Obama as a person?

[-] 0 points by friendlyopposition (574) 2 years ago

Do you even bother to read stuff before you start typing?

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

“I agree that Nugent was out of line with what he said. He crossed the line. But, the facts would show that the Dixie Chicks voiced opposition to a person - President Bush - not just an issue.”

Are you suggesting it would be better if I didn’t?

What did you mean by “the Dixie Chicks voiced opposition to a person” then?

[-] 0 points by friendlyopposition (574) 2 years ago

Maybe it is more an issue of reading comprehension. In review... MattLholck stated that the Ted voiced an opinion about a name, not an issue. I pointed out that the DC talked about Bush in addition to an issue. Then I elaborated because apparently Matt can't read either...

We weren't talking about Nugent......

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

You are really not bright are you? it must be hell being you, but in any case.

You're talking nonsense and I'm just using you to bump, I gues we both get something from it.

[-] -1 points by friendlyopposition (574) 2 years ago

You make me laugh. The evidence would show that you are the dim one. You don't have to scroll up very far to see it. I don't mind you getting your bump - it allows more people to see how lost you are.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I always like it when idiots like yourself comment on things you know nothing about, as I have the opinion of many PhDs in the field to support my position.

[-] 1 points by friendlyopposition (574) 2 years ago

Where do you get this stuff? It is all the more comical when you call me dumb and accuse me of commenting where I have no knowledge.

In case you can't figure it out for yourself - the topic of this discussion is whether or not the Dixie Chicks said something bad about the war, or about President Bush or both. Please, enlighten me. What do the PhDs in "the field" have to say about your position on this?

I have to give you credit - when you start digging yourself into a hole, it is like you're using heavy machinery!

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I'm not surprised you have no ideal what we are talking about.

[-] 1 points by friendlyopposition (574) 2 years ago

Deeper now! Keep digging!

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I'm afraid you've ran completely out of depth.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

you make a fair point the dixie chicks, much bigger, of course the right can rarely attack the issue

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

One hundred million percent agree there is a double standard from the lame ass media on display here. And include Rush Limbaugh's name right alongside Ted's. That vile hack should have been taken to task eons ago.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

How many Clear Channels dropped Rush, these guys whine like crazy if you even say anything what would they do if people did what they did to the Dixie Chicks, all for saying war is bad.

[-] 2 points by friendlyopposition (574) 2 years ago

What they said was that they were ashamed that George Bush was from Texas. And do you know what the federal government did about it? Nothing...now, country music fans who opposed what they said took action - and their US tour ended up getting cancelled that year. I'm not sure they ever totally recovered. Isn't that right along the lines of what you all are preaching here? The people were heard.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

and we should hear those people and make sure none that think like them hold public office, that would be us being heard

[-] 1 points by friendlyopposition (574) 2 years ago

That would be you being heard.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

true and those that think like me...

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

That is the very nature of a double standard. When Ted makes his comments, certain people defend it as free speech, when the Dixie Chicks do it, those very same people are nowhere to be found defending the right to free speech. In fact, they do a complete reversal on their supposed values and go into whiny little bitch mode.

Great Big Hypocrite is a label that can be applied to Clear Channels, and a whole other host of media groups.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

Now, if they only understood how despicably repulsive they look when they are whining and going on some disjunctive rant rage. But, as Duality always has it, they somehow believe they are furthering their cause. Lucky for the opposing side since they reap the reward of the other side appearing as a big wet fart.

And from this flatulence comes our beloved comedians shedding the light on our wacky ways. If we couldn't laugh at this stuff then life would truly be a bottomless pit of agony.

The Puzzler

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

Growing up, I found politics to be the most boring subject ever, now I find it provides more laughs than a geographically challenged naughty librarian pretending to be a hockey mom making pitbull jokes.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Thank you for your input, very well said.

[-] -2 points by takim (23) 2 years ago

limbaughs ratings have gone up, more people are listening.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

hate sells

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

It's also time to stop pretending that democrats don't play a role in the wars and the deregulation on Wall Street.

Both sides have created a plethora of problems. If that's not true then 2008 to 2010 didn't exist.

[-] 1 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

This is true, and I don't think anyone here (or at least most supporters of OWS) is denying the obvious. The right has been successful in moving the nation to the right, the left along with everything else. In part, they've done this by borrowing some tactics used by the left in past decades. But the fact is we need friends, and we shouldn't be so quick to dismiss the left. They're our natural allies (or as close as it gets in Washington). If they win, we're closer to winning, if the right wins, we're pushed back. This doesn't mean we naively believe that the left is completely on our side, it just means we recognize the simple fact that they can be pushed and/or pulled to our side much more readily than conservatives (since they're already "almost" there, or at least some of them are). I'm not endorsing the idea that OWS should morph into some sort of political animal (hopefully that never happens), but exercising common sense is usually a good idea.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

There is but one way this works, rid ourselves of the GOP then split the Ds into, there cannot be three, there cannot be one, it's like gravity it just is that way, I do not want to tear up the constitution no matter how much I would prefer representative government, where every party with enough votes nation wide could be heard at the national level the constitution is not written that way, and I am a long way off from trusting anybody to rewrite it.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Not at all. We need to end party affiliation to end the football team vs team mentality of politics. We need to vote for people based on their ideas and their voting records... not because they have a D or an R

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

We could vote on records now, we are in this problem because people don't realize how bad it is to let so few have so much, money, power, say in things, that's the problem not "the two party system" the problem is that people have their heads stuck in the sand, all that matters now is getting rid of the GOP, then the sane people can work things out.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

I would say that both are the problem... but I would agree the larger of the 2 problems is the concentrated wealth and power which allows for such corruption to take place in the 2 party system. I just don't like seeing America so divided on everything... and that's largely due to the 2 party system... and a lot of that divisiveness is indeed from the GOP and Fox News. But when it comes to corruption and working for the 1% sadly... a lot of democrats share that tie to corruption with the GOP. Just ask Michael Taylor and Ben Bernanke.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Take for instance in my state 100% of the Ds support public funding for public elections, and i'm pretty sure 100% of the Rs oppose it, so there is a difference and it does matter.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

in my state my democrat senator supported the war in iraq and has an identical voting history to his republican counterparts.

I'm a huge Dennis Kucinich and Alan Grayson fan. Yeah the D's have some goodies for sure. But as a majority... they love to deregulate wall street and steal our rights with the patriot act.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

But they do keep the government out of the bedroom and doctor's office, so the Rs do all that and more, so one must make choices each day to make things better bit by bit, a lot of people were fooled by Bush when he said he needed the power to go to war so he could make peace, people forget that part when they talk about this, just like when we got Bush in the first place people were all like, but Clinton sign welfare reform, yeah I didn't like that either but was it worth 8 years of Bush and two huge wars?

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

You trying to get me to vote for Obama is as pointless as someone trying to get me to vote for Romney.

If not voting for Obama is a vote for Romney... is not voting for Romney a vote for Obama? ...or is not voting for either one a vote for someone else? I forgot how your theory works.

Also Bush didn't win the popular vote. Also Gore is 100 times better than Obama. If Gore was running for office, he'd have my vote. Obama didn't earn my vote again for 2012 after all the mistakes and work he's done for Wall Street.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Well Trevor who am I to talk after all I turned my back on Carter and voted Anderson because I felt the same way, but 12 years of Reagan-Bush (one) cured me, maybe someday you will be cured too. I hope it's not too late.

[-] -1 points by regimechange (15) 2 years ago

Please post links supporting the two "100%" statistics you allege. Thanks.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

HEre's a story and link to disscussion about hoe the GOP are trying, and have been since it was passed the public funding in AZ.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/republicans-try-to-kill-public-financing-in-arizon/

[-] -1 points by regimechange (15) 2 years ago

That link leads to this one, and there is nothing there:

http://tucsoncitizen.com/arizona-news/2012/02/28/arizona-clean-elections-bill-advances/

[-] 0 points by regimechange (15) 2 years ago

What I requested you do was "post links supporting the two '100%' statistics you allege". NONE of those links support EITHER of those statistics.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

They do hide good you might have me there, but at least we both agree the GOP are strongly against public funding, while the Ds are mostly for it, right?

[-] 0 points by regimechange (15) 2 years ago

You concede that your original statement was false and now ask me to agree with another one that you have not supported? No thanks.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

No I don't accept that it was false if you contend that it was, prove it by providing a link to where an AZ Republicans votes for or even made a statement in support of Clean Elections, before I call you a lair, which I'm sure I will at some point I will be prepared to prove it, now prove that you are not a lair and provide the statement to prove your claim.

Or have you already proven that you are a lair?

[-] -2 points by regimechange (15) 2 years ago

You DO know that other people can follow this thread, don't you?

You posted: "Take for instance in my state 100% of the Ds support public funding for public elections, and i'm pretty sure 100% of the Rs oppose it."

I replied: "Please post links supporting the two '100%' statistics you allege."

You then posted a broken link, then several links that did not support your stats, then a plea for me to agree with you anyway, and now an attack because I refused to do so. Keep it up...

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I do know that people have brains they know the difference between matter of speach and numberarcal details, I offered you a reasonable point and you want to fixate as all trolls do, so prove your point give me the name the Republican that proves your case bitch.

[-] -2 points by regimechange (15) 2 years ago

My "case" is that you posted false statistics and that has already been proven here. And BTW, the phrases are "manner of speech" not "matter of speach", "numerical details" not "numberarcal details", and you didn't use either one correctly.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

If you read my bio I talk about how this has always been so, those who want for their families to be above the rest and those who want a chance for all, there are always and will always be two side of that coin, today the GOP represent the wealthy and those that want it all for themselves, and some of the Ds too after all what can they do? When we give all decision making over to the wealthy by the way we fund elections? In AZ the Ds are real Ds not like in NY where everyone’s a D here you really see the difference, we must stop letting the 1% rule over all because if we don't the GOP and the SCOTUS have figure out how to take away any chance we have, so we can keep splitting out and talking about how bad the system is or we can take a look at why that is and start to fix it, but I don't think we have much time, one more GOP presidency I think will do us in, just like we lost climate change when we lost Gore.

[-] -1 points by regimechange (15) 2 years ago

"one more GOP presidency I think will do us in."

So given that Obama's first term has essentially been Dubya's third, what you're saying is it doesn't matter who gets elected next time we're still doomed if we expect voting to save us.

I agree.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I disagree, I see a big difference if say Citizen’s United had been decided the other way and we did not have SuperPACs, but maybe your OK with SuperPACs? Anyway take Justice Sotomayor compared to Chief Justice Roberts and I can see a difference, maybe you can’t?

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/29/supreme-court-may-be-most-conservative-in-modern-history/

[-] -2 points by regimechange (15) 2 years ago

Bushbama continued the endless wars for oil and profit. Bushbama maintained the Patriot Act and Guantanamo. Bushbama kept Goldman Sachs alum in charge at the Treasury. Bushbama kept the money flowing for the Military Intelligence Complex at the Pentagon. Dubya gave us AUMF 2001 and Obama followed suit with NDAA 2012. Bushbama also signed HR347, HR3606 and HR658. And we should overlook all of that because of one Supreme Court appointment that didn't stop Citizens United anyway? WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE KIDDING HERE?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Welcome abroad. So I take it you don't really care about the SCOTUS...hmmm

[-] 0 points by regimechange (15) 2 years ago

No sane person would suggest that one SCOTUS appointment - that may or may not prove to be a good one - somehow outweighs all the other sins of the Bushbama administration.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

So tell me how is Romeny better?

[-] -1 points by regimechange (15) 2 years ago

You'll have to ask someone who thinks Romney is better than Obama to answer that one. Personally, if I found them both on fire I wouldn't piss on either one.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

nor the country I suspect

[-] -1 points by regimechange (15) 2 years ago

I love my country. I hate its government, its politicians, the corporations that control them and the fools who support them.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I didn't know that they only get to make one, could you provide me with that link?

[-] 0 points by regimechange (15) 2 years ago

I never said "they only get to make one", and just how far from relevant do you plan to go?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

So you just implied it then? OK how many Supreme Court nominations would make a difference?

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[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

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[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

The constitution is what it is, even in the beginning some of the most influential people did not want parties, but that is what came from what was passed, we must learn to use what is, like Frank Lloyd Wright, we must adapt to the landscape. The key is to understand that there can be only two and use that, eliminate one and make one of our own.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Please tell me where in the constitution it even mentions a 2 party system. If that was how the constitution was... then third party candidates couldn't run for office.

The 2 party system has hijacked the government. The word democrat is not even in the constitution. Do a word search. The 2 party system is designed based on Divide and Conquer.

Come on factsrfun... you know better than that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Party_System

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

looking for words instead of truth? do you doubt that what has occur for 200 years is a result of the representative and how they are elected? You cannot prevent a party from forming, on any list one will be one and one will be two rarely is there a 3 within striking distance, it is what it is, but that does not mean we have to keep splitting our votes and letting the insane rule, we can change this if we have the will

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Please share the part of the constitution that mentions a 2 party system?

You can't because it's not in there.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Then it must not exist at all it's just in our minds I guess.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

It is exactly that. The 2 party system has hijacked the government. It should be a no party system of the people and by the people.

All people. Not 2 different classes.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

The problem is you can't keep the people from getting together and there's a party.

There would not be two parties if it wasn't set up trhat way, the thing to do is kick one out the door so we can room for one of our own.

I don't know what you're talking about "classes"?

The GOP do fight for the 1% hard as hell that is true if that's what you meant.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Classes as in 2 different categories of people. I did not mean it as in a financial way.

My point is the constitution did not set it up that way. That is just how history played out over time. My link from wiki explains the start of it. One of the original parties even failed and disappeared.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

and that could happen again if we push hard enough

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

That would be great. Let's push hard enough to make it happen and replace them both. End the rule of the banks and the 1% and work for higher wages for all.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I just read some of the wiki piece, it seems it took all of 4 years for two parties to dominate in all states, this is a result of the constitution, and the way the government is set up you must remove one to make room for another, the only sensible thing to do is vote for the dems till the Rs are gone.

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

"this is a result of the constitution"

false

where in the constitution? If you want to know how to create 2 parties introduce a problem people disagree on. Boom! 2 parties form.

We say yes! Well we say no! And 2 parties form. This is not the result of the constitution. It's the result of pandering on a couple topics.

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[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6637) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

The Dixie Chicks slammed Bush.

Nugent slammed Obama.

That pretty much says it all.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

The Dixie Chicks paid a price because the right stick together even though they are smaller and smaller bunch of fools.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6637) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Agreed. Hence the wide disparity over coverage of the two events. The Chicks fiasco, if you want to call it that, was way overblown.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

they did pay a real price for telling the truth though, I admire that

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6637) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

I admire anyone who calls it like it really is. I'm sure they didn't expect the backlash to be that bad, but I do respect their stand. I wasn't a Dixie fan, did they recant or apologize, or did they stand tall? Do you remember?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

as I recall it was really just the one who actually said it, then the others stood by her, and she never backed down in fine country tradition, the point of my piece is that if we expose the GOP for what it is, it will crumble then a new party pops up, thats the way it is really done, one must die so one can be born

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6637) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Agreed. I haven't followed it intently, but it seems the GOP is crumbling as we speak. As least serious cracks are beginning to show.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

This is where I start to sound crazy, but on this forum I won’t be alone, but I have been tearing apart GOP talking points ever since they started handing them out to the NRA. My life is one where I had childhood friends with dirt floors and friends with game rooms and pictures of their dad with presidents. By the time I was ten I had exceeded my teacher’s knowledge of math. I really think I have some thoughts that can change this nation in a fundamental way, if I can be heard. There, I guess I’m crazy.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6637) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Your kind of crazy is the good kind of crazy. You are an asset to OWS, in my opinion. Not sucking up, we need as many intelligent people involved as possible. Their side has geniuses by the boatload.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

and really the point is there must be many who feel that way, I was thinking about this afterwards, it will take many feeling that they matter, it will take telling the truth in a thousand ways so all can understand it, sometimes it really does feel like something great might happen, but that might just be hope giving it one last shot before dying.....

[-] 3 points by gnomunny (6637) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

That's one of the positive things about OWS and this site in particular. I'm sure millions of us have felt powerless lately and so resigned ourselves to just getting through it all. This site showed people like me that there are countless others out there who feel the same way and that we can get together and maybe, as a unified force, actually get something done. Finally.

Let us hope. Like the old saying goes, "Hope dies last."

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I was thinking about Orwell this morning and how it seems all anybody thinks of 1984 is that it's already pasted, the concept that the language controls everything is hardly ever mentioned, and then I thought Orwell was so stupid he probably thought people would use the knowledge in his book for good.

[-] -1 points by 2percent (0) 2 years ago

So, if you are in the 99% and repub, you can't "have a place at the table". Sounds like the OWS poster is not adhering to the rules of the website by endorsing a party. Also seems to be elitist.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

BTW the way I don't adher to rules, because I was born this way....

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

you can not vote for people who support or have signned the pledge not to raise taxes, but only cut them as that is insane, don't know what kind of republican you are if you never vote for one, but yes we don't need the crazy people who sign pledges that they will only lower your temp or your taxes either one can be deadly.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

We just have to pray the GOP away.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

they live on lies, some say God is truth..

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Some say, "Truth is truth. Accept no substitutes.." Lies are a poor gruel that satisfy little and that not for long.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Fair enough.

[-] -1 points by Kahn (6) from Philipsburg, PA 2 years ago

All American citizens have a a voice at the table. Try to take away my voice and I'll show you the true meaning of the word violence.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

If all you have to say is we need to cut taxes even more on the wealthy, you can stand in the corner and talk all you want, but the grownups have got some work to do.

[-] -1 points by hoot (313) 2 years ago

you want to shun a whole group of people because they disagree with you. you are a fascist.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I want to shun all who refuse to raise taxes on the wealthy, they shun themselves with that stupid pledge that is killing the country, I mean come on we will cut taxes gladly but never raise them, that's insane.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

You can raise them all you want, no one pays that amount anyways.

Until we have someone in the position of power that declares they are supporting a 100% destruction of the tax code and rebuild, its all just media fluff.

Taxing people who make more than 350,000 and are talented and contribute a lot to their neighborhoods, but leaving the multinationals alone, is a punishment on the entire nation, and raw fascist nonsense.

Its needs to be scrapped. All of it. Start over. Anything less than that is just the shallow games they like to play with us. Its not real change, and it doesnt bring about the change neccesary to help those that need it.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

99% inheritance tax till we pay off the debt is a good place to start, after we get the Republicans out of office so we can make room for a real people party till them we can only make small changes, of course it is a 1% lie that "nobody pays it" lots of them do that's why they fight tax increases all the time, the first step is ridding ourselves of anybody who has signed that silly pledge not to raise taxes, which means as you know getting rid of Republicans, the first step to all good things.

[-] -1 points by Dgoerz (20) 2 years ago

Voters continue to maintain more conservative views when it comes to money issues, but they are as divided as ever on social views.

Forty-three percent (43%) of Likely U.S. Voters consider themselves conservative when it comes to issues such as taxes, government spending and business regulation, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey. Nearly as many (40%) say they are fiscal moderates, but just 13% call themselves fiscally liberal. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

The national survey of 1,000 Likely Voters was conducted on April 22-23, 2012 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Field work for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

And hardly any American Idol winner has become an “idol” so go figure, people are fickle, but if we tell the truth over and over it may sink in.

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Republicans are throwing the election. Both parties support corporatism, so it really doesnt matter who wins.

The banksters and the MIC have their perfect face in Obama, so no need to change there. Dont belive me? Go look at Kerry and Dole. Then look at Romney. Goofballs galore.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

oh no nothing matters all is lost, all is lost........

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

I dont think the presidency going towards one puppet or another means all hope is lost.

First things first, getting the public to realize this is important, because until we understand how things really are -as opposed to how "they" say it is- then nothing will change.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago
[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

and nothing the SCOTUS does matters then I guess, now why are we here again?

[-] -1 points by friendlyopposition (574) 2 years ago

That's right! Its time for the government to get involved and do something. I mean - how can they just let people say whatever they want? If they aren't willing to put people in prison for the things that they say, they should at least be willing to control the media so it doesn't get so much play time.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Even better the people could get involed and throw the bastards out.

[-] 0 points by friendlyopposition (574) 2 years ago

Throw who out? Ted Nugent - throw him out from what?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Repubilcans, see the headline?

[-] -1 points by friendlyopposition (574) 2 years ago

Just because Ted Nugent is a registered as a Republican, does not mean he speaks for the Republicans.

I guess if the Republicans have to take Ted Nugent, then Obama and the Democrats have to accept Jeremiah Wright and the New Black Panther Party as their spokespeople.

[-] 3 points by VQkag (930) 2 years ago

This is mainly distraction. The republican party is loved and supported by big finance, big oil, big pharma, the 1%. These same groups are alligned against the dem party and the 99%. Support ows! they fight for you. Vote out big oil, big wall st lovin republicans.

[-] 0 points by friendlyopposition (574) 2 years ago

OWS does not fight for me.

[-] 1 points by VQkag (930) 2 years ago

Sure they do. We have disagree on that one. Support OWS! Vote out big oil lovin politicians

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

As soon as the Republicans trun their back on Nugent then we will know he doesn't speak for them.

[-] 1 points by friendlyopposition (574) 2 years ago

Ditto for Jeremiah Wright.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

As I recall they did that long ago.

[-] 1 points by friendlyopposition (574) 2 years ago

I stand corrected.

[-] -2 points by Hades (-13) 2 years ago

Okay. So nothing but absolute partisanship.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

We're in a lot of trouble we need people willing to look at every possible solution, if a "jury" member has already made up their mind, they can't be part of the discussion, the Republicans have already made up their mind that the 1% can pay nothing to help the country out of this mess, in spite of the fact tthat all who caused it got to Washington with the money and support of the 1%, they say they have no reasponibility in fixing the problem, I say they should pay the bill their guys ran up.

[-] -2 points by toonces (-117) 2 years ago

It wasn't the media and the left that was disgusted with the Dixie Chicks, it was the average American. In the same way, it isn't average Americans that disagree with what Ted Nugent says, it is those in the media and the left.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

The Average American was disgusted with the Dixie Chicks? Not in my neck of the woods. We were pretty ashamed of Bush as well. A whole lot of people went out and bought one of their albums just to support them against the right wing lock step jingoism that came down on their heads, even if we didn't like their music.

[-] -2 points by toonces (-117) 2 years ago

Well, then it is likely you are media or left, as is your neck of the woods. Not an insult, just an observation. NJ is hardly a red state.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

NJ is hardly a blue one. Look at the list of governors. Hell, look at the current one. Lying thieving fat pig that he is.

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[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Only about 30% are the prople they are not average, just very load, and upset the world is not theirs to do with as they please.

[-] -2 points by veritat (-4) 2 years ago

NO SOUP FOR THE DEMOCRATS EITHER...

My Favorite Tweets About The Corporate Controlled Demopublican Puppets:

About the Republicans:

The point of the #GOP is to make the elitist #Democratic party seem like a desirable alternative to would-be radicals.

https://twitter.com/#!/RadicalLeftist/status/193929148547338241

About the Democrats:

Democrats and "99% Spring" listen carefully: One cannot simultaneously be the problem and solve the problem.

https://twitter.com/#!/Mike_Peake/status/193748509009256449

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

there can only be two, we must make room somehow