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Forum Post: It is Gratifying

Posted 10 months ago on Aug. 31, 2013, 3:11 p.m. EST by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I see OWS has finally accepted Twitter as one more viable messaging platform. I think that is a good thing, with many potential applications all at once. Though I was an early advocate, I am certain no one undertook the implementation at my instigation. I wonder . . .

But never mind.

AS to the topic of Syria, I say Assad is but one of many among the one percent who see themselves as entitled beyond all reason and endurance. Let us cut off his head.

It is, as I am well aware, a matter of some controversy. Many say no no no, let us not intervene, and it is certain that many who hold such objection do so strictly as a matter of conscience. To them let no taint append for this cause.

Were OWS an organization, one given to discipline, deliberation, and decisiveness, we might provide the possibility of an Organizational Position while releasing each and every member to act according to conscience.

Were OWS to take up such a position, the benefits would be thus:

  1. We would demonstrate clearly to those one percenters everywhere, that we are indeed content with their sudden and calamitous demise.

  2. Less than 50% of the public support any intervention in Syria. We could ascend to power with a demonstration of the ability to change public perception, and so to harness the people.

  3. We could change the public perception on this issue because the death of Assad is in this case Just. We could make that case on far more than the mere use of Chemical Weapons alone, for the longer a conflict of this nature continues, the deeper the emotional scars among the population afflicted with the scourge of war. Many are the deficits of prolonged conflict.

  4. The principle beneficiaries of extending this conflict are those who would use such events to draw in members of al Qaida, and so perpetuate their ability to recruit, to train, to know and become intimate with killing and so hone their art. Such a position must be opposed as a matter of principle.

  5. Were we successful at swaying public opinion we would strike fear into the hearts of the one percent whose single allegiance is to wealth and to power. Were the nation to act as we had advocated, and had we so advocated loudly and often, it would be unclear to these one percent pretenders what degree of influence we actually possess.

  6. For the purposes of negotiation we could allude to the possibility that any one of these unentitled one percent scum could be next.

  7. Such a set of circumstances would induce among many of our opponents a degree of panic, and in their hysteria they would over play their hands, providing openings we could capitalize on.

  8. Such a set of circumstances would enhance recruitment to us in a number of ways, not least of which are those in mid level positions of trust among the one percent, with access to information that we would find useful. Some of them would surely turn to us, just as some of them have in the past, for what ever reasons they may have. The links below establish that indeed, it has happened in the past:

There may be other benefits as well. One of them includes the fact that Russia is adjusting its naval presence in the Eastern Mediterranean.

Within the Christian mind, this presents the image of Armageddon. For all of those repelicans who have ascended to public office while standing upon the Christian Bible, there is now a distinct dilemma. Much of right wing Christian dogma demands that the Christian embrace Armageddon at every opportunity. Thus those who have ascended to power standing upon the Bible must appear as cowards among their own constituents, and may easily be run from office with a carefully contrived astroturfing campaign. While the issue of Armageddon itself is a topic that OWS need not take up, such an astroturfing campaign could easily be undertaken and maintained at arms length from the organization itself.

Perhaps with little more than a small suggestion to the Tea Party.

Such an approach would necessarily be noted among even Pentagon brass, who must even now be assessing the behavior of Putin and asking if his behavior is little more than a probe, a query of our will by him regarding our willingness, our commitment, to do the right thing.

.

Were there such an organization.

But there is not.

Still I say, off with Assad's head. It's the right thing to do.

132 Comments

132 Comments


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[-] 1 points by WSmith (4187) from Cornelius, OR 10 months ago

Assad is not the only bad guy in the world, and if it weren't for the oil and strategic interests we might have more concern for greater human rights violators, like in Burma/Myanmar.

Then we have "Plausible Deniability" indirect murders (million per year) right here at home, killing with GREED: Kochs, Corporatists, RepubliCons, DINOs, and The Federalist Society: http://fedsocbook.com/

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

so . . . your reasoning is that since there are other one percent mutherfukers, some of whom are worse, we should refuse the opportunity before us to get rid of this one?

[-] 1 points by WSmith (4187) from Cornelius, OR 10 months ago

Start with the worst offenders, like the Kochs.

This is a MIC scheme, in which Obama has very little choice.

They drug out Kissenger to badmouth the guy, that is the big red flag of corruption.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

I missed Kissinger - but I expect that what it shows is the way in which the repelican party has diverged from its core principles and allies in favor of screwing the President at any cost. The fukers are insane, I think that is becoming increasingly and unavoidably apparent to increasing numbers of people.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

except for the legislation clarification bit

that made sense

the people should be allowed to understand the law

[-] 0 points by WSmith (4187) from Cornelius, OR 10 months ago

What is unbelievably shocking is for how long and to what extent Cons are insane (a cult acting masochistically and sadistically). It is a testament to the strength of our democracy that despite the entire panoply of their shock doctrine we are still able to operate as a relatively free people. If only more people were engaged and united, there would be no political malfeasance evil that we could not crush! Like cockroaches!!

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

I think if you examine candidates like Gov. Walker? and certainly Congressman Darrell Issa one can argue that the repelican party is in the process of corrupting the entire public.

Those who cast votes for men or women like this are saying It's ok to lie, to cheat, to STEAL - and by extension, if it is ok to conduct one's business affairs in such manner, then it is only to be expected that at some point one may be forced to kill to keep such affairs from the public eye, and that this too, is just fine, because after all, it's for the team . . .

[-] 2 points by WSmith (4187) from Cornelius, OR 10 months ago

Walker & Issa as well as McTurtle and Boner (as nearly all Cons and the few remaining DINOs) are mere flunkies and henchmen for the 1% their cult worships. Team 1%. The people who Vote for them are either as Thomas Frank described in his great book "What's the Matter With Kansas" misled by moral and other concerns (gays, abortion, condoms, taxes or guns) or are so prejudice against Dems that they Vote for Cons and against their own best interests.

But the vast majority of 1%-Con supporters are the teaming sea of disengaged & disillusioned non-Voters. Ignorance is no excuse! Democracy is weakened and fails exponentially to the lack of participation of the People ~ Team 99%.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

this isn't about intervention

it's about control of the oil fiends

you know that

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

so. . . Syria produces 401,000 bbl/day and therefore Assad is justified in using chemical weapons to keep this wealth he never produced or earned but rather was born to?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

the US is free to run as much propaganda as it takes to justify violent take over of Syria

the oil wealth was produce by the sun 100's of millions of years ago

the conquerors like to take credit for producing resource wealth

they did not

no one did

[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

so, Assad is a dictator - he launches chemical weapons and your response to the Syrian opposition is go take Dictation . . . ?

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

I don't believe the circumstance suggest the chemical attack by the government. The US is just trying to make excuses to kill with bombs. The US has lied in the recent past to invade Iraq The US has no credibility and will further damage that by destroying more countries and lives

the president sounds like a rules layer looking for an excuse

further, I find the US of bombs no different than chemical attacks

dead is dead

mass destruct is mass destruction

[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

yeah-ya, I get it

go take dictation

[-] -3 points by buliau (-29) 10 months ago

Did you get a new keyboard? Longest comment yet! Agreed. 100% ZenDog is wrong to promote violence. Dems and Republicans promote violence, Occupy shouldn't. It's about non-violent anarchy.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

my thoughts come in pieces

the above post was edit for each new sentence

http://occupywallst.org/forum/no-war/

[-] -2 points by buliau (-29) 10 months ago

Keep piecing together your thoughtlets, I like the resulting macro-thoughts.

[-] -1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 10 months ago

Exactly. Syria doesn't have enough oil to be of any particular interest to the TPTB. Iran does.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

the US seeks to control the entire region

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

you people do realize just how sick it is, right? I mean, destabilize the Assad regime and then stand by and watch as al Qaida moves in, provide just enough resources to keep a flicker of hope alive among the rebels, and thus ensure that al Qaida has adequate training in a real world war zone, not some Afghani training camp

while the Syrian people are slain by the thousands

We could, in all probability, bring an end to most of the conflict tomorrow - with little more than a drone strike.

And what is your response?

  • O NO! O Drona! NoNO ODrona! - exclaimed with a fish.lippin frown
[-] -2 points by doitagain (234) from Brooklyn, NY 10 months ago

I like your narrative in comparison Assad to oblivious 1% who only care about dem interest and who don't care about rest of the world. But what happened to Libya? I remember Gaddafi being ready to reveal al Qaeda camps locations during his speech in UN assembly. I remember him promising no taxation to people of Libya, the most successful region in Africa, - no more, the chaos . the camp ground for terrorist of al Qaeda. Speaking of truth , United States has the interest in the region and Assad crossed the red line. When I typed "red line" I remembered the kosher prime minister showing his drawing to delegates of general Assembly of UN, trying to make a point against the treat of Iran's nuclear program. Drone strikes most likely won't change the situation, America won't lose such expensive toys. Massive bombarding needs to be done, and Obama and his military consultants knows it but wouldn't tell to members of Congress covering it in limited actions. More destr%ctions , - more death toll. My opinion is one of the affiliated with terrorist groups smuggle zarin bombs across the Syrian border to exchange for ammunition. Israel intelligent forces took it to go (who else can it be besides Assad) and accidentally dropped it on civilian population of Syria, no biggie. As long as Muslim brothers continuously kill each other it will keep them busy and Israelis gonna feel safer... to exploring unexplored "Israelis " territories and so on.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

what's that? huh? Hc? is that you?

well guess what . . . I will do it again

.

It has always been glaringly apparent that Raygun did not win the Cold War. He did help to introduce ray.gun.omics and therefore simply Must be remembered under the halo of heroism in an effort to legitimize this bastardly economic policy. He must have been senile far longer than anyone ever knew, except perhaps Nancy - how else can anyone explain the willingness to be champion of trickle down . . .

the fukers

.



And you know what occurred to me? It's just how totally Surreal all of this is . . .

Lec Walesa and Unionization was the coup de gras, the final shove that sent the Soviet Union into dissolution.

Ray.gun was a union buster

Yet, they say - ray.gun won the cold war.

They must be depending on that linguistic device

  • Soviet Union

  • The Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization or PATCO Union

Only in very small minds are these anything alike.

.

[-] -2 points by garywinston (-20) 10 months ago

Occupy is a non-violent protest. Those who demand violence should support the Democrat party instead of Occupy.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

that's right and if you have an opinion you should stand up and declare yourself and state your opinion. I don't have time for the opinions of trolls or sick sock puppets

[-] -2 points by garywinston (-20) 10 months ago

My opinion is that we should not use violence in the case of Syria. There are better ways to intervene.

As for you, instead of being a Christian trying to make his place in an atheist party, I suggest you find another party. Why try to fit in a group where your ideologies simply do not match. Have integrity, start your own protest if you want violence, and if you don't believe in anarchy. You remind me of my friend Timmy who would spend his days at the mosque telling muslims they should read verses from the Bible instead of the Qu'ran.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 10 months ago

You know what really ticks you off? The fact that there is so much support for OWS. All of your attempts to redefine it for your own self interest have failed. Do you know why that is?

[-] -3 points by garywinston (-20) 10 months ago

Unfortunately, there is not enough support for OWS. A lot of people talk about supporting the protest, but, nowadays, not enough people go out in the street to really support it. I wish the whole nation would be taken by storm. I wish you would get out of your house and join us in the streets once in awhile. Your idea of OWS is some kind of fictitious dream. You think it means coming on this site and insulting other users. My dream is for OWS to take over and transform the US republic into full on anarchy. That is my dream.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 10 months ago

There is a lot of support for OWS. You have nothing to do with Occupy. You never knew Jart. You never had a falling out. You are a conspiracy theorist. You are paid to post. You are a failure.

Just like you have failed at everything else in life.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

you are entitled to your opinion.

And I had not heard that OWS, as an anarchist organization espoused any particular brand of religion or spiritual belief - regardless of whether it be faith or anti-faith.

[-] -2 points by garywinston (-20) 10 months ago

Faith has nothing to do with OWS, it was a metaphor. You come to this site, but you disagree with almost all the basic principles of OWS, i.e. non-violence, anarchy, leaderless protest, etc... That's fine. It's OK for you to do that. However, I just feel you are wasting your time. Where's your integrity? Why not spend energy on a movement or protest you believe in. If you think the solution is a politically organized protest that uses violence, then start that type of protest. I mean, I don't go posting on the Republican or Democrat forums telling them they should be like Occupy. It just makes little sense. Shouldn't we all be spending energy on things we believe in? Isn't that the definition of integrity?

You sound like an old wife nagging at her husband secretly hoping she can change him. Occupy won't change my friend.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 10 months ago

You are a liar. You are a conspiracy theorist. You have nothing to do with occupy. You never knew Jart. There was no falling out. You are a failure. You are a paid to post troll.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

Occupy won't change

no, probably not, and that may explain why it is apparently dying

[-] -1 points by garywinston (-20) 10 months ago

If you believe in your ideas, if you believe they might be good, then you owe it to others and yourself to try them out. I don't agree with your ideas, but that doesn't mean they couldn't be right. They could be. We won't know until you try them out. Why don't you start a movement or a protest based on them? Nowadays, with the Internet, it's not that hard. You post here trying to change Occupy, but you're just hitting a brick wall. If you wrote to people who had similar ideas, you could start forging a community of people that would agree and could protest together using your preferred tactics.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

just go away?

fuk you

I've stood on the protest line expecting to die muther fuker and if OWS wants warm bodies, i am one.

And OWS isn't going to change shit unless they can tailor the message to better suit a majority of the people. And the majority already know, anarchy will not keep them fed.

[-] -3 points by garywinston (-20) 10 months ago

According to GirlFriday, Occupy is not dying. It's enjoying the support of many citizens.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 10 months ago

You are a failure. Just as you have always been. You are not involved in Occupy. You have never been. You have never met Jart. You never had a falling out. You have nothing but conspiracy theories to offer. You are paid to post.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8651) from Phoenix, AZ 10 months ago

I have been thinking about this, there is a "gentleman's agreement" that "world leaders" will kill each other directly, only the people in each other's country and army, that's bullshit we should reject it and put an end to the most outrageous of this shit.

[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

I'm not sure how it is viewed in international law, but in the U.S. it is unlawful to engage in political assassination except in time of war

I think Ford probably signed his order because among the bureaucratic elite it must have been clear U.S. intelligence agencies had gotten completely out of hand and that their behavior could easily and may still to this day be interpreted as having been partisan in nature; the attempted assassination of Wallace not withstanding - it can easily be written off as having been half hearted at best since it did not succeed, or as simply an attempt at providing the illusion that partisanship was not a fundamental motivator.

In the case of Syria, I believe it will be as it was with Libya - as soon as Assad is dead most of the killing will cease. Why there would be this . . . perception . . . that any public statement of intent regarding such an individual is somehow barbaric or vulgar remains a mystery to me, but such a perception will lead to a certain hesitation to act in a way that makes it clear assassination of a head of state was the deliberate intent.

I think the killing of Assad is perfectly legitimate and a in the interest of humanity. To engage in any form of deceit on that point results in hesitation and prolongs the misery of the Syrian people.

Kill him. And then let us consider the rest of those one percent pretenders to power and authority with no appetite for the responsibility to which they aspire. The people must find the means of holding them accountable for their behavior. The charter of Limited Liability or of incorporation cannot shield such individuals from the consequences of their behavior when they act to undermine the national security, credibility, or authority of the Federal Government for the sake of their own enrichment.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8651) from Phoenix, AZ 10 months ago

We haven't been in a declared real war in decades, shit confuses the hell out of me, can't we just use the drug war or war on terrorist? we are always in a "time of war" aren't we?

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

that is true enough. I do not disagree. The thing in the case of Syria is that it has the capacity to feed our War on Terror for quite some time to come just by cycling those with the right expertise from the battlefield to covert operations around the world.

It's a perfect place to train, to develop skills, and to build relationships, trust, camaraderie.

there was a British politician who claimed in 2002 or 2003 that Iraq was a Black Hole for Terrorists - it is not clear to me that how successful it was at drawing in those inclined to terrorism to a place from which they would not escape -

and regardless of the level of success, it is an entirely cynical and utterly cruel method of using an entire civilian population, one that would become completely criminal within international law were it publicly debated. It is, it must be seen, a hate crime, for no one in power in the west would advocate such use of a white population - but these are Muslims - of course there is no white or western population center that currently presents this kind of opportunity, and so we cannot assure others with complete confidence that were racist attitudes not prevalent among the planners this would not be . . . perhaps they are simply inhumane. That does not change the fact that the planners themselves are a small core group, and that immediately outside of that group there must exist a cadre of individuals who will see the plan, accept that this most heinous misuse of the public is done unto a group that is other - that is, completely unlike the rest of us . . . . and therefore while such a plan may or may not be devised by racists without the prevalence of racism it is unlikely that such a plan would go far.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8651) from Phoenix, AZ 10 months ago

We are nearly 30 years into the age of 1984, and some still think it has not arrived. The training of competent killers is an essential element of control, many have read the books. As the Iraq and Afghanistan training camps close others must be open. Nothing is more dangerous than a sense of safety. Danger distracts the mind. Oh and shit happening in Syria is an abomination.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

Bill Neely just reported from Syria that the Assad regime began shelling rebel positions two minutes after the President made his public announcement indicating he would consult Congress.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

So here is an alternative possibility . . .

Let us suppose that Congress, in its infinite wisdom, refuses to accede to any military strike on Syria. Let us suppose that it does so because among dems their constituency is whole heartedly opposed; while among conservatives and their repelican sychophants there is a universal insistence to oppose every single measure the President puts forth - such that in the end Congressional disapproval, appearing to be nearly universal, persuades those among the public who have as yet no firm opinion on the issue.

If the President then stands down, claiming the will of both Congress and the American people oppose doing what he believes to be the right thing -

this then must bring about the demise of the repelican party from assault by bureaucratic sectors normally considered their allies, and it will do so as a matter of national defense and security. It must. And the reason that it must is because this is an issue with the potential to rival that of Global Warming in terms of repelican intransigence. Certainly it rivals that of the economy and the consequences to it from repelican posturing and pontification.

Repelicans are not patriots - this is I am sure, abundantly clear. As the consequences of their maneuvering continue to mount their cost to the political establishment becomes untenable, and so they must be dispatched, without ceremony, without remorse.

.

But of course, the President will save their bacon. By weeks end I would guess. I am not sufficiently Machiavellian to express any dismay.

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by nazihunter (318) 10 months ago

Keep up the good work, Doggie!

[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago
[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

Oh, I get it - they're Muslims . . . they don't look like us . . . Assad can kill them all day long and it won't matter because they do not look like us.

It's true, do not deny it - for Assad has been doing it - killing those who oppose his one percent rule, and killing them all day long,

For 900 days now.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

Ya the US should bomb the shit out of those muslim countries

because we're not mass killers

[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

o but we are mass killers

and on occasion it has been JUST

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

two removed comments already?

but let the nay sayers neigh I say, let them bray all day . . .

who can say if in this way we may make hay . . .

[+] -5 points by zimvind (-157) 10 months ago

You must have been thrilled when Dubya took out saddam

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

NOT Really - don't get me wrong - but it was the Iraqi people who should have done that. Shrub's war was the opening of this ongoing round of middle east resource grab and control BULLSHIT.

[-] -2 points by zimvind (-157) 10 months ago

Then it follows that the Syrian people should deal w Assad? Not the Sunni foreigners that have invaded, nor Obama??

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

Wow - you got all of that out of my little comment? Huh . . . I'm impressed.

For further enlightenment:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/thoughts-on-syria-anyone-or-general-thoughts-on-th/

[-] -3 points by zimvind (-157) 10 months ago

OK, then why did my extrapolation of ZD's comments get such a negative reaction? I mean, saddam was a bad guy too, no?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

perhaps it is in the way you express your self? or don't express? I don't know.

[-] -3 points by zimvind (-157) 10 months ago

LOL!!! I get that a lot :-)

[-] -2 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 10 months ago

A bad guy with waaay more oil than Assad.

[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

The war in Iraq was a huge and costly mistake, ill planned and based on false premises. But as a lesson in geopolitics it may serve as a fine demonstration:

  • So now the dust has largely settled in Iraq, who controls the oil?
[-] -2 points by zimvind (-157) 10 months ago

Really? It is undeniable fact that Saddam gassed Kurds and Iranians. Many thousands. He was a bigger villain than assad. I still think you must have been thrilled since you want Assad's head. Anything else would not make any sense. Course, 4 downvotes of my orignal observation on your appreciation of Dubya doesn't make sense either.

More important..who controls Iraqi airspace? Iran has been granted overflight permission as it aids assad.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

yup, and again, that was under a repelican regime. Repelicans felt justified after the Iranian hostage crisis. Repelicans have a natural inclination toward international violence and mayhem.

But that was a different admin of bushite. When the second admin of bushite advocated a second iraq war he did so on the basis of lies. As I am sure you are well aware.

Who controls Iraqi air space today? I would presume Iraqis do. It seems logical, given that we have withdrawn the vast majority of our forces and are no longer engaged in combat ops.

[-] 0 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 10 months ago

Yes, because nuking two cities was a great liberal president accomplishment.

Lyndon Johnson was quite the stand up guy when he lied about the Tonkin and sent over 50k troops to their death.

And Obama will be looked at as a savior in the middle east and Africa as he bombs a world record 8 nations over 5 years.

You support is absolutely incredible for the Democrats. If they arent paying you, they need to start.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

people love to slam fdr over Japan. Never mind . . .

https://www.google.com/#q=wwii+japanese+civilian+suicides

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 10 months ago

Dont forget to toss in Truman and his Korean "exercise" that led to 33k deaths and another 200k wounded.

How you can cling to some false dream with an entire century of proof in front of you is beyond me.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

yeah i dunno but it looks like the s. koreans aren't crying over the outcome

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

No you're correct - it is the common North Korean who is crying now.

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 10 months ago

I'm sure they arent. But the bottom line is we sent 33k of our people to their death, and injured another 200k.

Thats a lot of death and violence.

My point with all of this is that you hold the Dems on some kind of a pedestal, some position of moral authority, when history shows they are pretty awful just like the Republicans. They are better in some regards, like at least claiming to be socially liberal.

But with war, wall st, banker fraud, offshoring jobs they are just as bad.

[-] -1 points by zimvind (-157) 10 months ago

Huh? The commander-in-chief is pretty irrelevant to this discussion. Saddam unquestionably used chem weapons more times and killed more innocents than Assad has allegedly done. How can you talk about repelicans or democraps? If we are to enforce the WORLD;S redline, does it matter who is in charge? If we see the use of chem weapons against INNOCENTS as unacceptable, how can you object to the removal of Saddam just because it was a BUSH (with full Congressional and UN approval) that did it? Your partisanship is not only showing, it is nonsensical

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

1980's - so that really wasn't a hot button issue when Shrub came along.

Iraq and weapons of mass destruction - Wikipedia, the free ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

Program development ... ·
Iran–Iraq War ·
The 1991 Persian Gulf War

The fifth president of Iraq Saddam Hussein was internationally known for his use of chemical weapons in the 1980s against Iranian and Kurdish civilians during and ...

[-] -1 points by zimvind (-157) 10 months ago

Oh, the I guess peaceprize was right. When the west ignores it, they forget and it no longer matters? Billary didn't care, He didn't care about Rwanda either, did he?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

[-] -1 points by zimvind (-17) 0 minutes ago

Oh, the I guess peaceprize was right. When the west ignores it, they forget and it no longer matters? Billary didn't care, He didn't care about Rwanda either, did he?

↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink

You are not the only one to notice the USA's lack of help in Rwanda.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/help-nominate-noam-chomsky-for-a-nobel-peace-prize/#comment-1001714

BTW as Rwanda genocide happened in 1994. Who is the He You are asking about in your comment? ( slick willy ? )

Rwandan Genocide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide

Background ·
Catalyst and initial ... ·
Genocide ·
UNAMIR and the ...

The Rwandan Genocide was a genocidal mass slaughter of the Tutsis by the Hutus that took place in 1994 in the East African state of Rwanda. It is ...

[-] -1 points by zimvind (-157) 10 months ago

You really think Noam is interested in an award that has been cheapened and made a joke of at this point in the game? It may have been worth something pre-Obama.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

What a silly place to comment on Noam.

I believe you are on the wrong thread for that comment.

[-] -1 points by zimvind (-157) 10 months ago

Huh? Am I in the Twilight Zone, or what? You just replied to me above by posting http://occupywallst.org/forum/help-nominate-noam-chomsky-for-a-nobel-peace-prize/#comment-1001714 and then tell me I am silly to comment on Noam?

Am I missing something here? Or are you trying to screw with my sanity?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

Yeah you might read the comment that that is the link to. Dumb ass.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 10 months ago
  • or maybe we would have gone into Rwanda.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

Mornin GF {:-])

[-] -1 points by zimvind (-157) 10 months ago

Whatever, nimrod. Silly me for thinking a thread title might mean something

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

Since you seem incapable let me help you out:

Excerpt from the end of the comment : http://occupywallst.org/forum/help-nominate-noam-chomsky-for-a-nobel-peace-prize/#comment-1001714

But again:

Iraq just like Afghanistan just like droning Pakistan just like air strikes against Libya and now the proposed action against Syria. ALL done for reasons of controlling resources. not humanitarian reasons - or maybe we would have gone into Rwanda.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

FOSH - Yes silly you for commenting on a "comment's permalink" rather than opening it and reading the comment.

[-] -3 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 10 months ago

No one remembesr that Twitter refused to trend #ows or #occupywallst or #occupy at the beginning? Twitter has been used since day one.

Organizing is tough, especially with this stuff like this simply because its all volunteer work. Occupy could certainly be more organized, but its all young people, what else did everyone expect?

There are way more people on the planet who want off with our leaders head then Assad.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17842) 10 months ago

http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2013/08/post_381.html

Must be Florida that gives an off kilter image of "young people".

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

"For this gathering, we didn't want to be about Occupy," he said. "Today is an opportunity for us to step back as Occupy and acknowledge other groups."

I wish that lesson had been learned and applied much earlier on because if it had then the Unions and OWS would likely be working together, and that would be a beautiful thing . . .

[-] 1 points by shooz (17842) 10 months ago

The idiotic FEAR of co-option is fading, at least in reality.

The forum is a whole 'nuther case, as here the FEAR remains and the bots and puppets still run wild, not surprisingly with trolls in tow.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

well of course - it's their primary tactic and justification for their own behavior.

but wait - how much of our own behavior - yours and mine - is a result of this . . . concern . . . over cooption by libertarian madness parading around as principle . . .

[-] 1 points by shooz (17842) 10 months ago

The difference of course, is found in the obviousness of Dems and the insidiousness of the libe(R)tarians.

Few will even admit they are libe(R)tarians, and they play all kinds of games with the definitions of what a libe(R)tarian is..

You can see Dems coming from miles away. For all their faults, they are at least honest.

The libe(R)tarians can't even admit that modern libe(R)tarianism is the stepchild of corporate madness, wedded to Ayn Rand philosophy, founded in part by the Koch's themselves.

There is nothing honest about them.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

taxas has a coast

texas has oil no?

[-] 0 points by shooz (17842) 10 months ago

Libe(R)tarians too.

Lots of 'em. Each more confused than the last.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

I'm independent myself - but I've always tried to be right up front.

There has to be something terribly wrong with your philosophy at the outset if the very first thing you have to do is lie about it.

[-] 0 points by shooz (17842) 10 months ago

Exactly.

[-] -3 points by zimvind (-157) 10 months ago

Must be, shooz, cuz Lord knows it couldn't be Mishigun

[-] 1 points by shooz (17842) 10 months ago

Flunked geography, eh?

Flunked spelling too.

You do realize that would make you a complete flunky?

[+] -4 points by Narley (-629) 10 months ago

It amazes me how easy it is for some people to justify war. I suspect these war mongers have never been in a war. Dammed elitists like Zen, who on another recent thread advocates violence in the US to fix our social and and financial problems. Now he thinks leaders of other nations should be killed.

Troubling indeed.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17842) 10 months ago

Considering the Texas "economy" is driven these days by the "munitions and defense" industry, and you constantly promote it, I'm not sure what to make of this accusal..........you put on someone else.

[+] -4 points by Narley (-629) 10 months ago

Sorry shoes, I'm anti-war and anti-violence. You should support those ideals.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17842) 10 months ago

That is pretty sorry, as you are pro munitions and defense industry.

Bragging about how great it's made the Texas economy, while you debase Michigan and Detroit.

Community begins at home, as does war.

[+] -4 points by Narley (-629) 10 months ago

Sorry shoes, I really do believe in non-violence. Don't you?

[-] 1 points by shooz (17842) 10 months ago

You should be sorry.

I'm not the one bragging up it's involvement in my State's economy.

And let's face it, you encourage the kind of economic violence that's been perpetrated on Detroit.

It's really not much different.

[-] -3 points by Narley (-629) 10 months ago

Shoes, I know your mad because Texas has a strong economy and people are moving there, while Detroit is probably the worse place to live in the US. But that has nothing to do with attacking Syria.

Surely you don't think the US should attack Syria?

[-] 2 points by shooz (17842) 10 months ago

Texas has a strong economy because it supports WAR, and the highest incidence of sub par wages, and incredibly bad worker safety legislation..

They blew up the better part of a town!!!!

blink, blink, and they'll do it again!

Plus it hates women.

States like Texas, that WAR against unionized States have practiced economic violence in places like Detroit, Philly, Chicago, Cleveland.

But you won't notice, because you enjoy that WAR economy.

So please, you really do support the economy, the bombing brings to Texas.

[-] -3 points by Narley (-629) 10 months ago

Texas is still a much better place than Detroit. People can find jobs, people can afford decent houses, people can walk down the street and not worry about being robbed, people can pay low taxes, and the list goes on. Austin, TX has been on every "best places" list for over ten years straight. Best places to live, best place to raise kids, best place to start a business, best outdoor city, etc... .

Bottom line is Detroit is a high crime slum. It's done. Texas is a safe and secure place to live. That's just the way it is.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

Texas is still a much better place than Detroit.

Your into fracking Dallas I take it.

[+] -4 points by Narley (-629) 10 months ago

Naw, I'd rather them frack Detroit. Oh wait, now that I think about it, there are some parts of Dallas that should be fracked. Dallas has some inner city slums.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

OMG - the shining light of employment and prosperity - it has SLUMS ? How could that be possible in Texass?

[-] -3 points by Narley (-629) 10 months ago

yea I admit we have poor people. But not as many as most places. Times are good in Texas right now. However, the drought is a bummer if that makes you feel better.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

Should make you feel awesome - your being a fossil fuel supporter/fan/cheerleader and all.

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[-] 1 points by shooz (17842) 10 months ago

Awww, you're hate and bigotry is finally laid bare.

Frack the slums.?

No!

Frack you Charlie.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17842) 10 months ago

So yay!!!, WAR economy for you!!!!

Please don't talk about how you are anti violence.

Please don't talk about how you are pro worker.

Please don't talk about how you are pro women's rights.

You are none of those things.

Safe place??

Tell it the dead people in that town your libe(R)tarians blew up for the profit of it.

[-] -3 points by Narley (-629) 10 months ago

I'm not sure where trying to go here. I'm saying I'm anti-war and all you want to do is bash Texas. You just want to goad me into bashing Detroit. So what's your point is this exercise?

I'm anti-violence and anti-war. I'm not sure why that's a problem for you?

[-] 1 points by shooz (17842) 10 months ago

I asked you, please.

As I recall, you also claimed be "not anti-union", but you very much are anti-union.

So what`am I to think?

You have nothing but endless praise for the Texas WAR economy.

[+] -4 points by Narley (-629) 10 months ago

How many times do you intend to rehash this union thing. I'm not anti-union. If you recall I told you I was a union member for most of my career. My issue is when unions become as corrupt and bad as the companies. For instance (as I've said before), the UAW almost killed the US auto industry. Greed and corruption is wrong whether it's from a bad company or a bad union. The UAW was a bad union. Don't believe me, just ask anyone one the street. But I digress.

Back on topic. Saying "off with someone's head" is just another war monger. How many wars will be enough to quench you taste for blood. How many people have to die before you've had your fill of death? How can you sleep at night with such a propensity for violence?

[-] 1 points by shooz (17842) 10 months ago

The UAW had nothing to do with "killing the auto industry" dip shit.

You are anti-union to the core, just to believe that.

To repeat it, endlessly?

Makes you rabidly anti-union.

I knew guys like you at work, they hated unions, but loved their contracts.

Texas prosperity is BASED on pollution, MONO culture and WAR munitions...........unregulated+++++!!

So that's what you love about the South.

Frack Detroit?

NO!

Frack YOU!!!!

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 10 months ago

just ask anyone one the street.


He doesn't have any back up data. He's another circle jerk mother fucker.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

ahh, jeez your advocacy using a new name, what was it? conferencecall . . . ? has been removed . . .

almost makes me think you have moderation privileges

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

Republican aren't real

don't kill anyone

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[+] -4 points by Narley (-629) 10 months ago

No one needs killing, not even conservatives. You seem dead set (no pun intended) on violence. Are you sure you agree with OWS principles and ideals?

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

actually I'm fairly sure I don't agree with much of ows principles and ideals. I don't believe in anarchy. I don't believe the way to take down the system is to attack the system as a whole, I believe that the solution, the only solution is to attack it where it is weak - that is:

  • to attack your fear

Assad is no different than any other conservative pretender - he will not relinquish his grip on power - only he has chemical weapons.

[-] 0 points by Narley (-629) 10 months ago

Not sure what you mean by attacking "your fear". But if you mean we should attack Syria you are wrong.

The Russian vice-president recently made the statement that the US is like a monkey with a hand grenade in the middle-east. At some point we'll blow everything up. I believe that.

Syria is a sovereign country. We are not the world police. We should leave them alone.

[-] 0 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 10 months ago

Lol. He said that? Russia is beefing things up in the Caspian Sea. Has been for a while and that's something they care about. They could care less about Syria.

Obama is gambling here but he's in a tough spot. I don't believe he wants to go off on Syria and he's hoping congress say's no. Kerry, McCain and Graham are dumb. Pundits on this site are just waiting for their marching orders.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

you are a repelican apologist - and your fear is the weakness of the party. you are a conservative scumbag, and in time conservative principles will bring this nation to the brink of destruction.

[-] -3 points by Narley (-629) 10 months ago

I'm not a conservative. But I'm not a bat sheet crazy liberal either. Should I remind you that you're the one advocating attacking Syria, and using violence to affect social change in the US. My consistent message is no war and no violence. You're so caught up in wanting blood that you refuse to accept that.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 10 months ago

Tell the truth, Narley. You preach no violence because you know a good half dozen people want to reach through the screen and bop you.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

LOL only a good half dozen?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 10 months ago

Possibly a bakers dozen but, who is counting?

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

but, who is counting?

Narley? It's something one should be aware of.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

fuck making excuses to kill people for violence gratification

we if the perp vivisected your loved ones

it's OK to blow their heads off than right ?!

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 10 months ago

Wait...........so you missed that whole "if they take away our guns" episode? That's kind of what I thought.

pat pat pat

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

yes

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 10 months ago

pat pat pat

We're done.

[-] -2 points by Narley (-629) 10 months ago

The truth is I am non-violent, and I hate war. Few things anger me as much as the US continuing to become involved in wars that aren't related to our national defense. I've seen war up close and personal. It's not something people should make light of like Zen is doing.

On the other hand, I'm a gun owner with a good inventory of weapons and I train often. I'm perfectly capable of defending myself. Being non-violent doesn't mean I don't believe in self defense.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13497) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

I'm not advocating violence as the solution here at home at all - simply making a statement:

and providing an opinion:

  • conservatives today do all in their power to make economic and political reform impossible

Even to the point of abandoning their traditional positions and allies regarding matters of defense, illustrating once and for all that national interest has no place upon the repelican platform of politics.

And I've seen you leave comments that leave absolutely no doubt, you are a repelican fuk