Forum Post: Is it fair to say ?
Posted 11 years ago on Jan. 18, 2013, 10:12 p.m. EST by elf3
(4203)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
The left believes the government sucks because they won't regulate corporations?
And the right thinks the government sucks because they want to regulate corporations?
And the (Real) Tea Party AND Occupy Wall Street thinks the government sucks because the government is doing everything they can to regulate the citizenry while deregulating Corporate Conglomerate America who are in fact the people running the government ) And we agree we both hate government and corporations because we know they are one in the same?
Oh no no. The tea party are just low intellect Libertarians. OWS is more about equality. The antithesis of Libertarianism.
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How sad, the government shills are declaring themselves by their involuntary in-pants evacuations. The thought of common ground among disgruntled citizens, taxpayers, voters, patriots must be terrifying. Get used to it.
No. We don't hate government. We hate HIJACKED government. Government is us. And more powerful good government of the people would have protected us from the 2008 financial crisis. Government can regulate capitalism. As the grandchild of a former slave sold on the auction block if they think unregulated capitalism is a good idea and will be self policing. Ask a polar bear trapped on a melting 12 foot piece of ice if unregulated industry can police itself. While you're at it, put one of the Koch brothers on that 12 ft melting ice float to discuss things with that polar bear. . .
you convinced me - I support the right to arm bears
I think bears ought to at least each have a vote. What makes us so special?
It seems that the Tea Party members will support a Constitutional Amendment to overturn the Citizens United precedent discussed in: http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-coming-saturday-january-19-people-across-the-/
It is most logical to severe the connection between corporate money and governance first. We can talk about how heavily to regulate corporations later. Right now, we do not even have ANYTHING to decide how much to regulate because the corporate money is regulating us, Tea Party or OWS members alike. We can learn from the good old predatory animals -- chase down and kill a prey animal first BEFORE squabbling about how to divide the spoils.
I hope you are right, but I do not think you are.
Most of the TP are lemmings who do what they are told to do and believe what they are told to believe.
Abortion kills people
Obama is a Muslim
The earth is 6000 years old
Obama is going to take your guns
The foundation of the TP is belief - not knowledge
obeying - not learning
Do you know any TP who would support an amendment?
please send them here:
http://corporationsarenotpeople.webuda.com
1) Corporations are not people 2) Abortion does kill people 3) A Muslim told me that we all are of one faith. 4) Depends on how you do the math 5) Obama does as he is told. 6) personal opinions are like assholes,everyboby has one.
2) if abortion kills people, and if abortion is made illegal,
what should be the penalty for a 13 year old girl raped by her father who ghas an abortion?
3) if the Muslim was a Sunni, you are not a Shiite & vice versa
4) math & science prove that the earth is billions of years old and is not the center of the universe
I never said make it illeagle,Again people control does not work.Although I would like to see The Father swing from a tree.Just a personal prefreance.The abortion is the girls choice.All this time I thought New york City was the center of the universe and it is only six hundred years old.Give or take a hundred or so.And Abortion is the termination of life so that is death.I am not a muslim,he was a suni and he was convinced all people are born muslin.
There are some bases for the Tea Partiers' beliefs: Abortion kills people - applying the definition of having brain waves (same as how we determine if some elderly person is clinically dead), human lives start within a few weeks of conception so abortion beyond that can be considered to be killing little people.
Obama is a Muslim - he is NOT but at one time he claimed his religion as Islam probably to fit in with the predominant culture in Indonesia so saying that he is Muslim may not be entirely correct but it is not total baloney either; of course, that jibes with "Barry Soetoro" until he found his identity as Barack Hussein Obama.
The Earth is 6000 years old - if one believes in the Bible, that is simple arithmetic. A scientific demigod, Sir Isaac Newton, worked on that problem, but that was of course centuries ago.
Obama is going to take your guns - NO way because unfortunately even some gun owners themselves may not even know where their guns have gone to - how does Obama even know where the guns are?
Everyone acts according to their own realities but some are trapped within a static reality due to whatever reason - lack of thinking skill, lack of time, craving for easier-to-understand formulated framework of ideas, inability to try to come to grasp with opposing viewpoints, etc. When their bubble of reality is pierced by incontrovertible facts that have grave personal implications, they will change, too.
There are some bases for the Tea Partiers' beliefs: Abortion kills people - applying the definition of having brain waves
A 10 day old fetus does not have a brain or brain waves, but the anti-choice nuts want to force a 12 year old rape victim to continue that pregnancy
I have a cousin who would have died because of her fetus was in he fallopian tube - an ectopic pregnancy
ultimately - its a type of person - they want everyone to be like them - mostly based on religious teaching
That IS indeed a big problem in our world, religions animating the ignorami.
We need to apply good judgment in any case. Let me state the obvious - the pregnant female has the ultimate control over the fetus.
Legalized abortions is certainly one way to ensure that the best health outcome is possible given the circumstances of the pregnant female but let us NOT kid ourselves that many abortions amount to de facto murder of the fetuses which for all practical purposes fit the definition of living human beings. In the case of the 12 year old rape victim, we also need to include the lifetime emotional burden on the mother. The case of fetus growing within a Fallopian tube is obviously covered under the self defense right of the mother.
Coercion to achieve conformance is the root of the problem, not the solemnity that we should always take towards the taking of a human life whether through abortion or not.
we are a nation of laws that say a fetus is not "A HUMAN LIFE"
I assume that you heard about the woman who died in Ireland - suffering in agony for three days because doctors would not perform an abortion to save her life.
Laws are the rules that our body politic agreed that we should live by. They are ARTIFACTS that do NOT have to agree with the scientific reality. They can be of all kinds, knowing how inventive human beings are.
The case in Ireland was likely an example of the dogmatic adherence to the Catholic religion. We hold different values in the U.S. and I have NO problem with the precedent set by Roe v. Wade that legalized abortion, precisely because of the artificial nature of laws but let us not kid ourselves about what abortion truly is, according to biological science as revealed by improved medical technologies since the time of Roe v. Wade.
All who want to take back our government in the name of the people and restore constitutional law need to find a way to unite, regardless of label.
Right on! I abide by the Will of our people but first we must make sure that the Will of our people is reflected in our governance.
Yes, our governance must reflect the will of the people.
As someone else said, the U.S. government has become infected, Occupy Wall Street is here to disinfect it.
As we chase down and kill our prey animal, others are very welcome to join the hunt and corner the prey. Oh, say can you see?
Support of the entire Bill of Rights, including the 2nd Amendment specifically, needs to be an OWS Unity Principle. http://occupywallst.org/forum/support-of-the-entire-bill-of-rights-including-the/
Yes, I never had any problem with our Second Amendment. I think though that we should push for military training for every willing able-bodied person.
the tea party believes what the koch brothers tell them.
and until the Tea Party gives up their evil ways, never the twain shall meet.
a balanced budget, stop the spending of money the country doesnt have, cutting the taxes, supporting the constitution ( bill of rights),..........only in a "progressive " mind set is that considered " evil".
Wanting to privatize social security is evil as hell and not very cost effective. Only in a Tea Toler would this be deemed as such.
But but aw hell GF that way wallstreet could make themselves more wealthy without risking a penny of theirs........................... OH - HUH . . . Never Mind.
lol Goood morning.
Hey GF good to see you and G-Day. lovely 1/19/2013 day of protest to get money out of government - Hey? Kick those corpoRATs in the junk good and proper.
Good to see you too. It is a rather lovely day!
Yes - yes it is. No climate change issues today - oops - wait a mo - my mistake ( I mean it is nice - But ) - here in the frozen North Central USA - it is not frozen - 40 degrees and thawing - but not to worry I guess it's supposed to drop 40 degrees some time ummmm soon I guess.
So I guess the lovely part includes warm weather for all of the protest rally's. {:-])
Yeah, sometime soon? Yep, no climate issues presently.
No frozen t-shirts this year?
oooops spoke too soon - the wind is howling now - just started - straight out of the North - damn - it could have waited a bit longer. Temp dropping like a rock.
We are supposed to drop 25 degrees tonight.
You will likely get the same temps - a gift straight out of the arctic and Canada. It is funny the temp is dropping so quick that the outside facing walls are making loud contraction noises.
Really?
That's kind of weird.
Contraction noises? Oh yeah I suppose - kinda weird. Normally you get those noises on a regular basis but not quite so loud or numerous as the house will heat up during the daylight hours ( especially on the sunny side expansion noises ) and then it will repeat as it cools off overnight.
Generally don't have wet T-shirt contests - well not outdoors - at this time of year.
My step dad has a sister and that lives in Minnesota and I remember pictures of people that would walk outside with wet t-shirts that would freeze.
I still don't know why people would do that. Mayhap it's just his people. But, I'm not judging.
LOL - sounds like pictures of the polar bear plunge people. Cut a hole in the ice and jump on in - hmmmm not my idea of a good time - judge away - I'll help.
I thought it was odd. But, I come from the land of lets fry an egg on the sidewalk people. Perhaps soonly other states will be able to participate in the festivities.
Oh even before this climate change shit there are times in the summer here when you can do the frying egg on the sidewalk thing. Huh - best of both worlds I guess? Not to mention in the summer here in the land of 10,000 plus humidifiers . . . um . . lakes - someday's you can feel like you are breathing water - though with the continuing drought and continuing drop in lake/humidifier water levels - that may become more of a rare delight . . . um experience.
Republicans who want to privatize it, and make it a mandate that you still have to pay in regardless if you want it or not, should all be huge fans of Obamacare.
Forced Corporatism has no place in any country.
why is wanting to privatize s.s. evil? what is evil with wanting to have control over your own money? whats is evil about being able to make your own decisions about your own money?
The answer is in its name "Social Security." You will NOT have control over your own money even if you keep it yourself because how much benefit it would offer to you or your dependents eventually in retirement or earlier in disability would be determined by how much money will be out there which will be determined by our government and its love child with the nationally chartered banks. As we have already seen in the Great Recession, even the "too-big-to-fail" banks were teetering on the brink of collapse and would have failed without government and our federal reserve's interventions. The only thing that we can truly be sure of in our society is our COLLECTIVE promise through our government to take care of our olds, dependents, and infirmed.
Okay, even if you have all your social security money, where will you keep it? In stocks, bonds, mutual funds, real estate, etc., right? They will ALL go through the dirty hands of the generalized "Wall Street." Do you see why "Wall Street" loves to have social security privatized? Who does not want to collect annual fees from all of that money? How much will it be worth when it is disbursed? Subject to market conditions at that time! Believe me, our type of markets went through heart attacks every few years and you do not want to count your future lifestyle on THAT! Very few people actually have the surfing skill or know-how to manage their social security money well so I switched my position to keep social security public (it may be good for some to invest a portion of their own social security money but I do not want low-income people to take that risk). It should stay as our mutual pledge and covenant with our children.
what a person does with the money that the govt takes for s.s. should be their own business
Are you ready to accept that if someone got their hands on their social security money and lost it, we as a society would just let them starve or die and say, "Tough luck -- you had your chance. Buzz off!"?
if a person choose not to participate in the S.S. system then they have would not get a govt s.s. check. but that doesnt prevent them from getting welfare, ebt card, section 8 housing, medicaid , all of which other taxes that go to the govt pay for.
Oh, I see. You think that the other social-safety-net programs would take care of the unfortunates. I see social turmoil ahead if we let Social Security go and people have to depend on these programs which will be subject to political whims. Even the more permanent and widely supported programs such as Social Security is seemingly now subject to cuts, the other programs would not fare well and we will probably have nearly constant political fights. There is no welfare any more -- it was done away in the Bill Clinton years in the 1990's.
participation in s.s would be voluntary.There is no welfare?????????? over 40 mil on food stamps, thats welfare.
I strongly advise you to try living on so-called food stamps for a while before you decide to make Social Security voluntary. "Food stamp" has been changed to a nutritional program.
I used to think that I could do better with the Social Security money myself but that was when I was only looking at myself. Then I realized that other people were not quite like me and in a society we formulate policies for the society as a whole, not for individuals alone. It takes knowledge and effort to invest money well.
Take a look at the money that people had stashed away in their 401k's. Many have raided that to live on or pay current expenses such as college tuition. We went through experiences of people managing their own money so we should learn from that. Economic fluctuations will continue and we do not want people to become destitute by encountering an inopportune fluke.
i said it should be a choice not mandatory. people can get a $500 ebt card, thats a lot of groceries.
Bon appetit! Enjoy your retirement on the $500 EBT's groceries.
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Do you think privatising s.s will give you control over your 'own money'? Are you for real? Although it will make no difference to your thinking, see - http://www.nationofchange.org/wall-street-pulls-strings-social-security-under-attack-february-1357655371 - Frightened, lonely and hateful of your fellow citizens is no way to be. Do the words 'solidarity, society and democracy' have any meaning whatsoever for you? Tch!
you earn your money, you should be able to choose what you do with the s.s. money that the govt takes
Are you living on an island on your own? Do you build your own hospitals, schools and roads? Are you safe and secure without the Police and Fire departments? Does the word 'society' mean anything to you at all? When you are old and infirm, might you need some help? Am I my brother's keeper? Solidarity?
s.s is a separate deduction, ,.....you pay in plenty of other taxes , local, state and federal.
Is it the word 'social' or 'security' that you don't like? What do you think of all this 'socialism' for The Bankers - http://www.nationofchange.org/tarp-over-bailouts-will-continue-until-big-banks-are-broken-and-washington-knows-it-1357748717 ? Never Give Up Trying To Grasp The Real Issues! Occupy A Clue! :)
you're changing the subject. i am taking about an individuals choice to participate in the s.s. system.
The 'subject' is the balance between 'the individual and society'! Your inability and/or disinclination to connect the dots speaks volumes as does your silence when it comes to Banker Larceny! Never Give Up Trying To Join Up Your Thinking! Occupy The Big Picture! Reflect on grapes' answers to you above.
Because the cost of transferring it and the fees would bankrupt it. The Chilean model was a failure. I do not understand why you people refuse to do research.
Not so easy to deny reality if they do.
I'm sure the paid to post helps them greatly.
If they pay me it must be true
Whom? they? HEY - wheres my paycheck? is it minimum or living wage? any benny's? {:-]) No never mind. I am happily(?) retired ( force-ably ) - yep livin the good life ( well as long as expectations of retirement aren't too high ) if things keep going the way they are I will have to pay better attention to the tasty pet foods that are out. Nuke a cup of water and - walla - stew.
Just kidding pet food the good stuff can be pretty expensive.
Damn it. I just about spit my coffee on the screen. You are on a streak!
LOL - sorry. I hope you didn't get any in your nose - Oh I hate it when that happens.
transferring what? if it isnt taken out of your pay, then there is nothing to transfer.
Transferring to a private fund and then management fees.
who says you have to transfer to a private fund? and if you did, again , thats an individual choice.
trolololol
I love it when you play stupid.
you dont play at it,......you are.
Did you say something? It's real, real hard to hear you with your head so far up your ass.
You don't say, Cass Sunstein.
your are confused,..the dem are the low info people believe what the msm tells them, the msm being an arm of the current administration.
republicans think that the real news is on am radio.
it cerainly isnt obtained from the msm, the p.r. arm of the current administration.
it certainly is not obtained by listening to rapidly aging out of touch and under informed and under educated racist idiots who don't have an economic, finance, math, or science degree on the a.m. radio dial.
i listen to sirius radio,..............................for music. never the news.
The price is wrong, bitch
what??????????????????????????????
Yes, indeed.
"the price is wrong, bitch". please explain or are you having a seizure?
I'm pretty sure that you understood just fine.
i dont understand your post, thats why i asked you to explain it.
You know what I'm talking about
Lof'nl
cant/wont explain your remark?
if i knew i would not have asked you to explian what you meant by your comment.
It's all there
See?
There's another one.
Here's some truth.
http://www.alternet.org/story/154875/the_science_of_fox_news%3A_why_its_viewers_are_the_most_misinformed
Now deny it.
your link is from a far left site. and you belive that junk???????????? hilarious
You've proven it yet again.
Some studies have shown that watching FLAKESnews an actually make you stupid.
Perhaps a larger body of evidence?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9288158/Fox-News-viewers-worst-informed-study-finds.html
http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/mediawire/174826/survey-nprs-listeners-best-informed-fox-news-viewers-worst-informed/
http://www.thenation.com/blog/167999/its-official-watching-fox-makes-you-stupider#
http://www.businessinsider.com/study-watching-fox-news-makes-you-less-informed-than-watching-no-news-at-all-2012-5
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/national-affairs/study-watching-fox-news-actually-makes-you-less-informed-20120524
http://www.examiner.com/article/study-finds-fox-news-viewers-more-misinformed-than-non-news-watchers
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2011/11/22/374434/fox-news-viewers-misinformed-study-jon-stewart/
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/john-farrell/2010/12/22/university-study-fox-viewers-more-misinformed
There's a lot more if you remain an unbeliever.
an unbeliever in what?
The truth, obviously.
That's why didn't actually read the info in even ONE of the links provided.
you mean your "truth". you mean the " truth" ( phoney ) stories on left wing sites.
No, I mean the truth.
What do you mean?
Derp
i don't think occupy wall st. thinks the government is over regulating except when it comes to drugs in every other case they are under regulating.
This post was about OWS and the Tea Party joining forces, but it only got 4 upvotes and 19 downvotes: http://9gag.com/gag/5675396
Unfortunately the real voice of occupy gets drowned out by MSM.
Is it fair to say that... Wall Street controlling the political process, has adverse effect on all Americans, regardless of party politics?
Amen. It is bankster looting that has crashed the economy (of the world) not debt.
The 1% is severely outnumbered, once the 99% become aware.
We are the government and personally have given up the sucking enough is enough. There is not progressive forward motion in hating better is to offer something else that is reasonable and inclusive yet more simple and cost efficient for the People's good is what 's fair.
Oh go to church then and pray if that's your outlook no sense even discussing it that's the real Secret keep calm and carry on - it's the positivism police here to arrest me.
guess what "we" lost control of our government a few years back that's what the movement is addressing the fact that we no longer have a Representative Government for or by the people. Tea partiers and Occupy are on the same page - we share a unified cause and we need eachother to get this problem fixed
The Tea Party and Occupy are so far a part it isn't even funny.
the tea party became a haven for people to snort Koch
the (Real) Tea Party is not the one you see on tv - I know some who are rooting for Occupy they just wish it would stay focused on the things we agree upon
what is the real tea party?
It's origins were different, but it quickly was hijacked by bigots and the koch brothers.
The first Occupy protest in my city was counter protested by a tea party group, they were there just to harass people. I do not know of this Real tea party you speak of, and it's not due to tv.
Right. They just wish that Occupy would do what it's told and agree where the Tea Party says to.
Ain't gonna happen. Occupy is inclusive. Anytime the Tea Party is ready to go with those goals and issues as outlined by Occupy, I am sure there would be a huge welcome..............mat.
Yea but you both fail on the same basis - you have allowed yourselves a label - rather than continue as the associated mass of dissent necessary to success.
So you exclude yourself in referring to "you have allowed yourselves" this indicates not you why are you here then?
This excludes me, yes. I am here because I want my finger on the pulse of America; I want to know what's happening and what people are thinking. Unfortunately, in respect to this forum, NY metro is but one small region of the country but still, it's interesting.
I will continue to assume the position that yes We have a country and We are people and nothing has changed that. I have not lost control. Not a single person who knows me hold any thought about the possibility of me EVER being any kind of police and for good reason they know it is so and will remain not going to happen. A problem is just an opportunity with lesson in hand. Yes the voting system and every other system current are all screwed, that is what we work to establish new ways
You might be giving the Tea Party a little too much credit on this. They want fiscal responsibility in government. Most everyone else does too but OWS seems more focused on the banking industry and how it relates to government.
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