Forum Post: In response to a brain dead douche bag. The so called simple laborer is who makes this country great. The so called simple laborer is the heart and soul of inovation. The so called simple laborer is on the front line everyday making dreams real.
Posted 12 years ago on Jan. 26, 2012, 8:29 p.m. EST by DKAtoday
(33802)
from Coon Rapids, MN
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
It is simple labor that streamlined industry and raised productivity. I know I was there. The boss wants cost savings, he says do it. The rest of us analyze what is currently being done and look for where we can eliminate wasted movement for one, we analyze how a process is run from A to Z to see if there are improvements that can be made in tooling or equipment which will help increase the speed and consistent quality of the process as well as help each individual in that process. I did this phase or worked in this phase of the business for over 18 years. The boss took the credit and the bonus and the pay increase.
So Fuck off with the notion that simple labor has nothing to do with success and profits.
The simple labor is the driving force of constant process improvement. This needs to be recognized and acknowledged/rewarded as is only "FAIR".
No one seems to note that capital gains taxes were reduced to encourage investment when it was a risky proposition. Now that most investments will be made without such encouragement, the assist should be given to the foundation of the country, which is where it is now needed. Why is that such a despicable idea to so many?
oh yes those poor hard working investors. They had to .. make a risky investment. Most likely they were the only ones made out on that deal. That's what's wrong with this country.
edit. but yes, I agree with you too. I think.
I'm sorry. I feel like I want to immediately agree, but the comment is so incomplete I don't think I can.
I think originally the tax on capital gains was at 20% OR half the rate of one's ordinary income tax. The idea was to encourage people to take a risk and invest in businesses for a year or more. Investments were made and a lot of money is now made on money, so the risk is pretty much gone. If the Tax Code simply changed it so that capital gains were now taxed as ordinary income, just like the income from all the salaried people, the tax burden would be greatly leveled. Mitt would have to pay 30 percent or so instead of 15 on the bulk of his income. The result would be an investment in the working person rather than the moneyed investor.
I believe that is what the President had in mind, when he was talking about a millionaire bringing home a million or more a year. But I think you might be looking for a different post for that discussion. Like the post on the state of the union perhaps.
Actually. my intent was to say I agree that the worker is every bit as valuable as the investor, and it is time we recognize that. Our culture has diminished the salaried employee or even skilled craftspeople as somehow not as good as college educated, "white collar" workers and management. I would like us to move away from such false values. We could start training people in schools for what they are good at rather than to be a so-called professional. Anyhoo, thanks for reading :)
Thanks for your participation, I really liked this last comment.
Have you ever hear of the American labor party? We actually had a political party which advocated the things you are talking about. The founder, however, is frequently misunderstood and despised, even by many people here, because of propaganda. His name is Lyndon Larouche.
Here's the thing; I like the things you are talking about, and if the American Labor Party is pushing for those things then that's great. That said, I despise Lyndon LaRouche, and I would never vote for him or any organization with strong ties to him.
Why do you despise him?
The man ran an organization that is more akin to a paramilitary cult than a political party that ran around accusing everyone who disagreed with them of being brainwashed and then forcibly "deprogramming" as many of them as he could get his hands on. He claimed to be under threat of assassination by everybody and their mother and ran ads accusing a presidential candidate of being a Soviet spy. He produces conspiracy theories faster than China produces cheap toys and then proceeds to systematically smear and attack anyone who thinks differently. There are two decades of evidence documenting how much havoc this man caused as a private citizen, and there is no way in hell I want him anywhere near the halls of power. If you want to talk to me about New Deal-style economic policies, then that's great, but I'd support those policies in spite of LaRouche, not because of him.
Your take on LaRouche is interesting. I really never knew much about him, but someone, who has I think since been banned from the forum, tried to convince me of how great he is. The internet information is so all over the place I just gave up trying to figure it out. I'll go with your take. LOL!
I may have spoken with you once before, are you an electrical engineering student?
Yep; electrical engineering and computer science major, MIT class of 2015. Did you go by the username "hymie" at any point?
I did, that's my real name in Spanish - Jim or James = Jaime or Hymie. I'd been living part time in Argentina, where I have an English school. I think I was banned, under that name, at one point. Here are some facts about FDR's accomplishments:
In November 1933, at the direction of President Franklin Roosevelt, his emergency relief administrator Harry Hopkins established the Civil Works Administration, putting 800,000 people to work within ten days, and almost 2 million to work within two weeks. Over 4 million people were working on CWA projects within nine weeks—the largest peace time mobilization in U.S. history. They were put to work building and repairing streets and roads, bridges and sewers, schools and public buildings, playgrounds and parks, and in projects of flood control and water management.
Could we do it again, today? Absolutely. The agency structures exist, with enabling legislation already passed, which would allow us to immediately, overnight, absorb mil- lions of Americans, particularly unemployed and underemployed youth, into useful jobs building, repairing and maintaining all manner of infrastructure, public works, and public health projects. Despite being underfunded and under ideological assault, certain key Federal agencies are still intact, through whose administrative networks and experience, the necessary programs can be rapidly implemented.
foundations such as public healthcare
it just that... We do these things because they are good and right ... most who enjoy their work would not even care if someone else got the credit or the raise as long as they made a living. But this kind of humility is NOT shared by the people who fucking make the rules anymore and its wrong man. Its just wrong.
I was raised to give credit where credit was due. Not steal it for myself like some needy punk.
This is a very admirable quality DKA.
Thank you for that, but it really should not be. It should be normal behavior. Or so I feel, so I was raised, give credit to my family friends and teachers.
Thanks for that, but I think it's trolls that disagree.
I did those things, for the places I've worked too.
I designed a lathe jig at one place I worked and after I quit, for a better job, my foreman built and used it successfully.
The supervisor, then fired him , and claimed it as his own.
That's ethics for you.
And the worthless continue to rise. You think that may be whats wrong with some of the rich?
a shame most given a wage that never rises
When the so called simple laborer has money the economy is strong robust and healthy, flexible and quick to recover from mistakes, when the so called simple laborer does not, we have today's economy.
lets compare the simple laborer to an elitist like steve jobs since hes dead and gone and BROKE. (Thats right he didnt take any of his wealth with him). He made a wonderful product like the apple iphone, and everyone wants it, but instead he sold it to at&t, so for years, i did without, and now you can get it with verizon, so im still doing without, and now sprint is offering it, and im still doing without it. someday it will come to tmobile, but for now, im not paying a 1000 cancelation fee just so i can pay 100 more per month to switch so i can finally get the iphone. gee i wonder if i should copy his business model, when people call me for my product or service, ill ask them which part of the valley they are on, and if they live on the east, ill say sorry, we only sell to the west side, in rememberance of steve jobs.
We don't know who we are debating here. If we choose to debate those who are hostile to OWS on this forum, of course it is difficult to retain our composure. But ultimately it doesn't help to insult them. They may, after all, be part of the very working class we are seeking to defend. After all only 10% of the American working class has organized itself. Much of the other 90% tends to be influenced by the dominant culture, which ends up, of course, being self abnegating. Even if they are part of the 1%, they might be won over. Why else bother to debate them, after all, except to try to win them over? I'd be the first to admit that I don't often follow my own advice, but that doesn't make it incorrect.
It really is not who we are debating or supporting, it is what. There are true believers in the need for change, reform, prosecution of criminals, recognition of workers value, need to embrace a green industry for a healthy environment and more. These things that need support go beyond Race, Religion and politics. You will have differing opinions of what needs to be done and how it needs to get done, and that is all fine and good for healthy debate and the formation of action plans. But then you have the corrupt and their blind ( ? ) or bought supporters, and their job is to disrupt. Our job ( true believers in support of needed change ) is to unite in common cause and keep moving forward despite all of the attack strategies.
Unite in common cause. Hate the things that are wrong in this world. Support each-other in making things right. This is where the healing will begin.
The Government of "The People" by "The People" for "The People"
We are the 99%. Take part in "The Peoples" Lobby.
Take action. See samples of how below.
196,030 signatures so far for Bernie Sanders petition as of 9:40am central time 01/27/2012
http://sanders.enews.senate.gov/mail/util.cfm?mailaction=clickthru&gpiv=2100081904.557411.411&gen=1&mailing_linkid=34578
The petition to save abandoned houses has 16 signatures. We picked one up at around 11:07am 01/16/2012. Were just rolling right along.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Savingpeople-savinghomes-payingdowntheNationaldeficit/
Here is a place where you can directly address change. Take part, it does not hurt and may very well heal/help. Forward the cause of reform and rebirth.
http://www.care2.com/go/z/e/Ag8nw/zL2Q/B18Bb
Sierra Club has some good things to take part in as well. Set-up and ready for you to take part in. http://sierraclub.org/
I think after getting money out of politics and reinstating Glass-Steagall, we need to focus on redefining the way we value labor in this country.
It is all related to greed and corruption. But I agree that money out of politics and Glass-Stegall are very important cornerstones to immediately address. In the mean time I don't see anything wrong in promoting good behavior and responsibility as we go.
Right. We wouldn't even need to be here on this forum if people had promoted good behavior and responsibility for the past 30 years while this country was falling apart. Now that we know the outcome of the bad behavior everyone should step up to the plate.
That is why we need good and determined advocates to speak to the people. To raise awareness and direct where participation can be done.
Disregarding the front-line workers contribution is wrong petty and perverted. Many of brilliant ideas would never fly if it were not for those doing the work making it work. There are many brilliant designers, engineers etc. etc. but they do not put it together, they do not make it work. It is the front-line worker who discovers the problems in a design and communicates problems and needed change or attention. It is an all around team effort. So stop discounting your workers contributions and value.
Who needs bosses! Let's start our own companies! We have all the brains, those fucks are useless!
Free enterprise. Do it to it but please remember to love your workers.
I suggest you do that.....good luck
Truth.
Credit where credit is due.
Exactly what Mao would have said.
Simple labor doesn't fund the building of the facility,
it doesn't create the system of organization that efficiently runs the facility,
it doesn't market the product to hesitant consumers,
it doesn't develop the supply chain,
It doesn't fund the effort before the profits are produced
without direction and management simple labor could only produce simple results, not advanced products like those in the modern world....
You start a few steps too late in your description of the system when you say:
"It is simple labor that streamlined industry and raised productivity. I know I was there. The boss wants cost savings, he says do it. The rest of us analyze what is currently being done and look for where we can eliminate wasted movement for one, we analyze how a process is run from A to Z to see if there are improvements that can be made in tooling or equipment which will help increase the speed and consistent quality of the process as well as help each individual in that process."
This assumes the enterprise is already in operation.....the operation must be started, and THAT requires investors and capital.....
When there is a hiccup in the supply line, or the market presence the simple laborer doesn't have increased responsibility....he comes to work and performs his task, and goes home, largely as he has always done.....and he gets paid for that task whether there is a profit or not, like in the beginning stages of enterprise when profits are slim, or nonexistent....
To equate the simple laborer with the director, organizer, creator, or investor of an enterprise in relation to compensation is incorrect and foolish, it is the creator that provides FOR the laborer something he cannot provide for himself and increased value for his time and effort......and for the increase in value he is also due a portion of the value increase. In all industries the laborer ARE compensated more than the owners or managers on a per employee basis.....
Be that in a small company where ten employees make $50k, and the owner makes $80K on that $500K he pays in salary, or in a large company where a hundred thousand are employed at an average of $50K, and the owner or CEO makes $10M on the $5 billion paid in salary.....
If you disagree, I suggest you go out and attempt to market your own simple labor without the assistance of the direction and organization of the enterprise created by someone else and see what you can earn for that labor......
Labor Productivity (of both workers and management) + Investments in capital = Profits
The work of management is labor. They are workers, too, they are maybe paid more, but the cost to pay them is part of the labor cost.
All labor contributes to the profits. The little guy's contributions have been diminished with extremely low and unfair wages while the management has enriched itself, because they have the power to set the wages.
Brain dead ( 1 points by slammersworldisback (-101) 13 minutes ago ) good to see you ( not ) I was wondering how long it would be before you showed up to put down the American workers contributions to growth and success. Well here you are. You can throw money anywhere you would like but nothing good is going to come of it with out employees most of whom are the simple laborer = whether that labor happens on a phone, on a computer out on an assembly line, running a machining operation, operating heavy equipment. Your employees or someone Else's employees are the ones who make it all happen and with strict quality and attention to detail. So if you can do without the dedication and contributions of the actual workers - Then Please Go Ahead and Do It. But anyway just GO.
in all fairness , we can not disclude the huge investment of time risk and money on the owners part .. it really does take everyone's paticipation to make it happen. I think we need equal recognition on both sides of this.
He or She risked money and invested time.
So?
Because of the quality and dedication of their employees, they became a success and got their investment money back. That would not have happened without employees and their invested time and skills.
So all I am looking for is proper recognition and pay.
"THEY" could not do anything without employees. Employees of their own or the leasing of someone Else's.
Yes I agree . with proper recognition and pay .. and perhaps a share in the companies growth .. after all it is the employees that make the company grow .. but I also recognize the contribution at the top with all the planning and initiative to get the whole ball rolling.. it takes a certain kind of person to accomplish that , a certain talent .. leadership and confidence to not give up .. this must be recognized and valued .. but of course the end of the day when it comes time to divide up the spoils .. well the powers at the top do the dividing.. and the labor at the bottom hold their hands out .. it is quite an undignified process capitalism .. but none the less it's what we have ..so far .. I must thank you for your commemorative words for the unknown laborer.
I'm not putting down american workers, I am putting down your idea that they are worth more than the idea's that create and organize the contribution of their efforts....beyond what the efforts themselves could ever produce...
Wow slammersworldisback that comment/reply took a long time to get here. Does your brain hurt now? Or was it that you could not get through to your handler very quickly to check their input. Get over yourself, the "common" worker gives much more contribution to quality, growth, success, innovation, process improvement, and all aspects of a successful business than you or your handlers/purchasers are willing to acknowledge.
I am working, and have to deal with my appointed tasks first....
I don't have "handlers", I have real life experience in success and profound failure.......how simplistic of you to think so, though...
Don't know whether or not you really speak your own words or not. You are just so much the Corruption, Greed and Entitled Rich supporter that it is hard to believe that you have not been bought and paid for. If you truly are expressing your own thoughts, well then that is just sad, but perhaps you will wake up to face reality some day. I will pray for your brain dead condition as I care for the good of all and not just the good of just myself.
yeah... it's sad that I'm not a greedy little beggar groveling for someone else to support me and provide for my life
I expect nothing of others I don't expect of myself....
Bullshit, your whole rhetoric is putting down the contributions and value of others. Go pedal your crap to someone who is willing to submit to your abuse, there are masochists out there, they may even provide you with a whip to save your expense and increase their pleasure. Anyway you don't belong on this site where the good people are trying to provide for the welfare of all. Go somewhere and occupy yourself.
nope....I will be remaining here to shatter your foolish utopian nonsensical idea's
Luck with that. Looks to me that you like sitting in a hole by yourself. Not very influential of you is it? But hey keep digging if you enjoy it.
No one likes a Scrooge, do they slammers? LOL
You're not going to change anyone's mind on here. No one cares about you and your anti-worker bullshit. Go back to the hole you crawled out of!
1 points by XenuLives (307) from Charlotte, NC 1 minute ago
No one likes a Scrooge, do they slammers? LOL
You're not going to change anyone's mind on here. No one cares about you and your anti-worker bullshit. Go back to the hole you crawled out of! ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink
Addressed to who? I mean I know you responded to my comment. But it is unclear in your reply as to who you were dissing. Me? or 1 points by slammersworldisback (-101) 2 hours ago ?
Sorry but it is unclear to me.
slammers aka the troll who wants us all to give up and say "screw you, poor people!"
You know, because no one has the right to eat...
OK. Sorry my bad, I missed it. It has been a long day.
"right" to eat? actually you don't have the "right" to eat......you can earn food by gathering, hunting, or trading labor for exchange of food, but a "right"....NO
why don't you try sitting in one spot without moving and exercise that "right" to eat.....
Why do you keep equating the right to do something with something be provided to you. The right to do something does not require or imply that you or anyone need to do anything. This is a false requirement you are using to justify the missuses of the work "right", thus why I keep posting a link to the definition of the word.
Your understanding of a "right" is what has you confused. A "right" as far as law and constitution are concerned is the ability to engage in such activities without penalty. Yes, it is my "right" to eat. Have you ever tried to stop someone from eating?
Wow, your wealth has blinded you to human nature. You give us the right to eat because if you take the right to eat from a hundred people, you better have an army to defend you expropriations, because those hundred people will eat you, so to speak. Bring it, dog. Give me my food of I may find you tasty.
You're a cruel and despicable person. Do you care about anyone other than yourself?
and you better not be "pro-life" with the arguments that you try to push here, LOL.
"slammers aka the troll who wants us all to give up and say "screw you, poor people!" You know, because no one has the right to eat..."
The above comment implies that the "right" to eat is something that must be provided for by others...you are not viewing my comments in context.
I am saying that the poster is claiming that implication of the word "right"...."I" am not claiming it...
stopping someone from eating WOULD be infringing upon their rights...but having the "right" to eat is a much different thing.....eating is dependent upon having food, and gathering food requires effort, and you have the right to make that effort.....but, in the nature of the comment above stating..."because no one has the right to eat" implies that somehow the "right" to eat is dependent upon others to provide in some fashion....and the expectation, or demand. that your food will be provided for you is NOT a right.....
come on over buddy, I'll be waiting.....
I'll demonstrate what the right to defense is all about......it won't hurt a bit, and you'll never see it coming
No one "gives" you rights....they are endowed upon creation...but all rights are independent....if it is dependent upon others to provide...it's not a right
[Removed]
You should go jump over the coon rapids with an anchor around your neck. Say hi to the carp while you are down there!
Ah yes - points by Kirby (27) 2 minutes ago
Another of the purchased brain dead shows up.
Keep supporting the corrupt and greedy.
You too can dig an impressive hole to crawl into. I see you still have 27 karma points. Well if you work real hard ( not that hard, really just continue as you are, really ) you too can go into negative numbers, and rely on the fact that non-troll's will share my laughter over your pathetic self.
I'm crying.
Good. I understand it is cleansing.
You make me laugh! Thanks.
Not a problem even if you do come on as a douche.
Did you see any carp at the bottom of the dam? I used to go over for the carp fest years ago. Some of those oriental dudes loved to collect carp and buffalo heads.
Really? You want to continue that?
You Douche!
Don't be so crabby. Do you like carp? Yes or no.
Never tried one. Generally those in the lake system and being scavengers get kind of nasty. Worse than an old Bass. Or so I have been told by friends who have had carp and I have had an old Bass. Personally seeing the ones I've come across I would not be interested. I have heard that some river carp are OK but again not an experience of mine.
I'm with you. A buddy of mine from southern Illinois used to tell me," their is no fish better than a carp. I am speaking out of clean water." He lived on the Mississippi north of St. Cloud for a time back in the late seventies. We would fish on the river and catch walleye and bass, among other species. One time I hooked this big ass carp and this guy made me keep it. We went home and cooked it up, and he told me it was going to be the best fish I ever tasted. It was bad. He got me good.
Yeah growing up the people I fished with generally referred to them as skunk fish.
It is admirable for you to help along the loser for 18 years and receive little compensation....
...But what most people do, is shut up when you see an improvement to be made, save your money up, and...
...18 years later, now that you know everything he's doing wrong, take your savings, start up a new business and put him out of business. "Thanks for nothing, loser!"
You must be so popular with so many people. Do you think that people look at you as a shining light a true humanitarian? I know you make me believe in evil.
Excuse me that was harsh. You don't your statement does.
Did I misread your post? I thought you were saying you were mistreated for 18 years by your old employer, whom you were trying to help by providing him/her with valuable suggestions, and you got nothing in return. If they are going to mistreat their employees, why do the deserve to stay in business? Is putting a poor businessman out of business an unfair thing?
I'm missing something here...I'm on your side...
The idea is not to shit on someone, but to give due credit. I am not at all encouraging tit for tat. Sorry that does not move us forward. So again I was harsh, but so was your statement, though apparently well intentioned.
I don't consider it tit for tat. The first person to get angry always loses, I often say.
No, I mean the guy who mistreated you has made plenty of money in those 18 years. You'd be getting payment for all of your work in that time in my opinion. If he was mistreating the other workers, you could hire them and treat them the way they should have been treated all along.
It is a culture of the Fortune 500 seekers that needs to be broken or given a dose of reality. It is not in me to fuck someone over. Though they may well deserve it in many peoples view. I did my time for an unappreciative employer. I now would just like to advocate for change and proper recognition of the American worker.