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Forum Post: I'm Calling this Healthcare Shot Right Now

Posted 1 year ago on Jan. 31, 2013, 2:30 p.m. EST by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The Europeans are going to move, due to being completely bankrupt, to the system that the US has implemented, which is a corporations freaking dream....Dont provide, just force the people to buy it from the corporations.

Corporations everywhere are licking their lips at this. The precedent has been set. The federal government can force you to buy things from corporations. Its exactly the same as the Republicans wanting to privatize SS and Medicare but make sure you are still forced to buy it- corporations dream.

The right keep complaining that its going to move towards socialized medicine. The left keeps hoping that its going to (although Im not sure why they didnt do it to begin with if thats what they wanted, and had the votes).

I think both are going to be wrong. I dont see socialized medicine coming out of this. My rates have kept going up, and the coverage keeps getting worse. Now with this, Im forced to buy something, regardless if its junk or not. The corporations own DC. And now, through forced purchases, they are going to own YOU.



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[-] 6 points by agkaiser (1416) from Fredericksburg, TX 1 year ago

All services needed in common must be done in common, of, by and for the people. In order to limit costs and eliminate unnecessary spending, all of medicine, finance, energy, communications and mass transportation must be done on a non profit basis, of, by and for the people.

Sterilize the rich heirs and all their fools at puberty and all the worlds problems will go away within a generation. There will be no more cons to parasitize the human race.

Such a common sense solution is unlikely. So let's start small by outlawing for profit finance, medicine, energy, communications and mass transportation.

[-] 1 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

I agree with these things in common being for and by the WE. Another point in favor is that basic needs will be provided rather this police/jail cruelty and in that way people can realize what they are meant to do. We may have those that will require their life spent healing and they can be contributing members of our communties in some capacity. Where I differ is starting small, time has expired and that is what every well intending person has been doing since the 60's. Big is the solution because that is the size of situation. Besides which people are being tortured and killed in the peoples name and small stuff will not end that fast enough! Get out of Washington DC and leave behind all it has become and stands for. It is not even in these United States and should be treated as the foreign land it is. We have attempted reason, protest, commitees, panel, elections, petitions, decades of time and now things are worse than ever plus the total of lives grows in number daily. Do you see any of our current operation backing away from this behavior NO and will not see the corrupt that be do anything for us. They are fucking our country and when you tolerate something long enough it becomes you and that is not the WE. Let them keep the blood money too. We need not overcome the ways it represents. Besides that with WDC separated we will need new currency anyway. Just write the whole thing off like any bad investment get out. We will be doing all we can taking responsibility for damages that we have allowed if that is even possible it will cost us for along time. The rest of the world will be fine with this because we are no longer killing their children and ruining their country. In Solidarity Worldwide FREEDOM...

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1416) from Fredericksburg, TX 1 year ago

Small things like “for profit finance, medicine, energy, communications and mass transportation” a mere 95% or so of GDP will never fulfill the ambition of one so powerful as to reject all that is and replace it with “THE WORD” of the gentle storm because such power is not to be denied and is great and large as we deserve will add our daily needs beyond the infrastructure we must provide commonly to free ourselves of the debt bondage to the providers for profit and all is proclaimed and all is written and so all shall be done by the magic spell of the whirlwind of love and rejection of worldly means and all that's common without end amen.

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (22408) 1 year ago

Healthcare should be not-for-profit, single payer. Period. They should be expanding Medicare, not shrinking it. Handling healthcare in any other way is immoral. Healthcare is a human right.

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

One would think that in this day and age, with the technology we have, that one could go get a cast for a broken leg or medicine for strep throat for less than $100. Not the usual astronomical bill we all receive.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (22408) 1 year ago

Exactly. $1,500 for a few stitches is the norm. It's all about profit. There should be no profit in healthcare! And, healthcare workers shouldn't be living in multi-million dollar mansions. Come on folks. This is ridiculous. People over profits!

[-] 4 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Now you're talkin! THAT is the cruxt of it. We MUST remove profit from healthcare. It is immoral, unethical. We have kept profit out of fire fighting, policing.It can be done! People over profits, indeed! That would be a beautifulworld. ;)

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

I say either let the doctors do what they want, or go universal. This inbetween garbage is destroying healthcare and in a way the entire country.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22408) 1 year ago

Good point. I say go universal. Cover everyone, the healthy, the sick, the young, the old. It would even out the costs. Medicare costs a lot because it covers only old people! Other countries do this successfully. It is a complete moral failure that we haven't figured this out. It's not rocket science.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (24110) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yep - cover everyone - cut the fat off of the top of the program - those making money but providing nothing in the way of value/worth to health care.

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

France has an incredible healthcare system, I think I may spend some time studying it and seeing how they do things, so I can make the comparisons here.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22408) 1 year ago

Great idea. We have to start somewhere. And, if the country is too big to do it, then the states have to do it. Let me know what you find out.

[-] 3 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

OTP, I completely agree with you and it's going to absolutely drive so many famlies who are already struggling into grave economic despair. Obama is truly working for big insurance, not us. He handed them millions of new customers and even more profit than before. It's sickening, no pun intended.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

It's time for the people to take matters into our own hands. Protest, boycott, agitate our individual states to implement a single payer option and put the private health insurance industry out of business. We can't expect corrupt politicians to do anything for us. They must be retired and We must force change!

[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

Unfotunately, my state of VA is even more corrupt. It's truly a heinously fascist state and they are getting worse every year. I'm not sure that state mandated single payer would be any better than Obamacare. But, help me out, maybe I'm not thinking this through well enough. We really need a federal single payer from my perspective. I won't pay into Obamacare, can't afford to even if I approved of it.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Single payer is definitely the answer. Fed level most preferable. Unfortunately corrupt pols blocked it. That must be pursued at all levels. If we can do it at the state level we absolutely should! Other states will follow, and pressure will build for a national solution.

[-] 3 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

Perhaps but Obama and Wendell Potter both said that Obamacare was the step towards single payer. What a crock of malarkey! Of course, Potter whistles a different tune nowadays too. He's just like the rest of the crony capitalists. Obama gave big insurance 5 years to strategically screw us before the ultimate money load comes in,securing their industry profits for generations to come. They all got us right where they want us. They are slowing titrating more and more corruption into our lives so that we barely notice and no civil war or revolution will result. Then, before we even realize it, we are captive and unable to reverse the damage.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Occupy has been at the forefront of making sure the 99% ARE aware!

It's time for the people to take matters into our own hands. Protest, boycott, agitate our individual states to implement a single payer option and put the private health insurance industry out of business.

The power of the people is greater than the people in power.

[-] -2 points by auargent (-600) 1 year ago

cheapest obamacare for a family of 4 in 2016 is priced at $ 20,000.

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

We the people must force our individual states to implement a single payer option to replace the fed mandate to buy private insurance. That will cut costs. We can also agitate all pols for the right for negotiated prescriptin prices. That will cut costs. It's up to us.

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Republicans want to do absolutely nothing about the problem, and Democrats are too dumb to realize this is a step in the opposite direction, just putting even more of a burden on business and lower middle class, with absolutely NOTHING about costs at all. Nothing.

That bullshit 85% towards premiums rule is a crock of shit.

[-] 3 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

You are so right and yet, so many Americans are just desperate and gullible enough to believe this shit. The gov't and media are always working at keeping us in a desperate drama and this is how they manage to manipulate us and get away with all the crony shit they do. Just like the bailouts.....people lose most of their retirement, the president tells us that he has no choice but to bail out the banks or we'll lose even more and the media like Suze Orman support him. We sit back and allow this because we're so afraid of things getting any worse that day. Desperate minds seek immediate solutions and gratification..not a good thing! We need to think of ourselves as powerful and rich and behave as if we really are. Powerful and rich people don't allow others to steal their money and force them into buying things they don't want!

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Beware The Prophets of Profit !! & re. 'ObamaCorporoCare', I learnt much from your few comments just on this thread, let alone elsewhere & tho' probably not the best place for them, lest I forget later, I would like to append the following links here fyi :

Back on topic, how we treat the sick, injured and infirm is surely the base mark of 'how 'civilised' any culture can claim to be. The U$A never seems to be short of money and motivation for Imperial Wars Abroad & Corporate Larceny At Home but its long suffering 99% population is continuously parasitised by The 0.01% Extractive Corporations run by the usual suspects of Kleptocrats, Plutocrats & Dynastic Oligarchs. This state of affairs is unsustainable & 'The System' is pre-programmed with its own demise but the Corporate Programmers' hubris & conceits sees no end in sight. Oh, how very wrong they are !!

omnia mutantur et nos mutamur in ellis ...

[-] 3 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

Hi Shadz, glad that my previous comments were of some benefit. Thanks for the links.

Oh boy are you ever right about our corrupt value system in this country. We're all about making war NOT love. It's difficult to swallow, difficult to even imagine that we have the nerve to criticize socialist countries when our democracy is so inhumane-- How we treat children, how we treat the elderly and everyone in between that is not wealthy.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Thanx & "not wealthy" = 99% !!! Over 50% live pay check to pay check ; and another 25-35% are 3-6 pay checks from technical bankruptcy !! ~10% think they have enough to have a stake in 'the system' with 1-2% working for 'the system' and this shambles is presided over by The 0.01%, Parasite Class !

Gandhi's words come to mind, as when asked what he thought about 'Western Civilisation', he replied that he thought it would be a good idea ! U$A = demoCRAZY deMOCKERYcy ?! Further consider :

"The Revolution Is Love" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxHG3jUqdQ0 [4:51],

'Some Outrageous Facts re. US Inequality' : http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/07/02-0 .

multum in parvo ...

[-] 1 points by elf3 (3206) 1 year ago



[-] 0 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

The medical "industry" needs to be completely redefined before any plan that is just can begin to take form. I do not do doctors I would rather die and they are not making people well or healthy. The Rx's just keep coming my God if you get 1 on to the plan of maintaining pocket books Rx after Rx after Rx seriously you are what you eat and the stuff in meat disguises as disease and the Dr.s know that parasites well birds of a feather and all. One more indication of why wdc is being left behind it is too sick to make this country well and time is up in the waiting...I am WE

[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

Peace, I completely agree with you. Our medical industry is not a healthcare system it's a disease care system. They even refer to mammograms and colonoscopy as ' preventive' and people buy that! Prevention is not the same as detection.
However, socialized medicine would be much cheaper for the individual than the current crony obamacare that is being forced down our throats. Obama is not working for our well-being at all. I refuse to pay a penny for Obamacare and if they want to penalize me, they go ahead and try but I'm not wasting my money on such. I have a really good doctor that I pay out of pocket to and he is all about prevention, not disease management. I won't be able to afford healthy foods, my good doctor and a healthy lifestyle in general if I pay for Obamacare.

[-] 1 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

The human body can literally repair itself. Chakras need to spin properly and you are healed. Combining food will balance charging system eating sweet fruit before starches in morning and acid fruit before protein(not meat)in the eve this is we stay well. In this free land WE will choose and be allowed our health and well being. And can make our life's work toward healthy live for brothers and sisters to live in a country of well being FREEDOM I am WE...

[-] 0 points by freakzilla (-161) from Detroit, MI 1 year ago

Having just gone to the Post Office and the DMV back to back, I can only hope you are right about not seeing socialized medicine coming.

[-] -3 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Whether its socialized, or a massive amount of regualtions being removed for the doctors, anything is better than corporatism.

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Manufacturing Consent Alert

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

"let's solve the homeless problem by mandating everyone buy a house." - Obama said mocking the mandatory insurance idea in 2008

Yet now they want us to believe it's amazing?

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago


[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

You're the last person I want calling the shots on anything at all.


One wonders sometimes if you don't work for ALEC.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

come on... even Obama in 2008 wasn't buying into the mandatory insurance crap. Remember? It was the main reason he beat Hillary Clinton in the primaries.

Have you ever heard of manufacturing consent?


"let's solve homelessness by mandating everyone buy a house." - Obama said mocking the mandatory insurance idea in 2008 - here it is - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoSnqofelsQ

They pocket cash that should be going directly to health care. Single payer would be cheaper and it would cover everyone.

Sorry but this bill still leaves millions without health care and there's no limit on premiums, which means they can increase costs on the sick... the fight for health care for all is no where near over.

Who do you work for? Insurance companies? - joking obviously.

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

that is an excellent link though.

from the link, for anyone reading -

ALEC's top 5 goals in regards to health care / insurance reform in 2009

§ Keeping single-payer proposals off the table;

§ Ensuring that the final bill contain a clause requiring all Americans not eligible for an existing federal program to buy coverage from a private insurance company;

§ Preventing the new law from establishing a government-run plan (the “public option”) that would compete with private insurers;

§ Making sure that the reform law is implemented primarily at the state level, to keep the federal government from assuming any significant new oversight of private insurers’ business practices; and

§ Keeping any new regulations and consumer protections to a minimum.

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

There you go again...

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Another pointless comment from a conspiracy theorist,.

What's next?

You gonna wonder what happened to all the support?

Oh, yeah, you already did.........................

I guess you think they like being referred to as asses.

[-] -2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

What's the matter?

Maybe you should try addressing the real issue at hand in this post, cough for profit insurance companies, cough.

Insurance companies care about profits, not people -its real conspiracy theory.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Why don't you respond to the link I posted, instead of attempting to insult me in the name of your conspiracy theory friend.

ALEC works in the States and as go the states, so goes the Nation.

I believe I've said this this before.

[-] -2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

I did respond to your link. I said it was awesome and shared a large quote from it.

Why didn't you respond to my response? LOL

I don't appreciate you attacking OTP the way you are. You came here insulting OTP, and his post is about the fraudulent insurance companies.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Why would I trust a word from a guy that gets informed from the John Birch society and Alex Jones?

More importantly, why would you?

ALEC is VERY busy ion the States and as go the states, so goes the Nation.

Ignore ALEC at your peril and OTC has already done that.

I don't trust a person that calls the 99% asses and thinks he's a revolutionary.

That's not going to change and YOU never came to my defense when hchc and OTC spent considerable effort calling ME names, so I find your comment disingenuous.

[-] -2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

that is some awesome assumptions right there.

I'm not ignoring ALEC. I often ignore you because you are a very difficult person to talk with on this forum. You insult and jump to assumptions and you've done this to me in the past, unprovoked.

I didn't see hchc calling you names. I don't read every post. I also usually ignore your posts because of a few negative exchanges we've had in the past. I do read some of them because you do often have good posts on lobbying groups, but I usually do not comment.

I also haven't seen the post where the "asses" quote you mention comes from.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Awesome because the truth is found in how much money has been spent to blur the issues.

The kind of stuff that always gets whitewashed.


The only way you missed his asses thread is if you are blind, so once again, you being disingenuous..

[-] -2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Again more assumptions. This is why I do not talk with you on this forum most of the time.

I'm going to go back to that.

Later shooz. Keep posting on those lobby groups, but may I suggest you change your attitude when conversing with people who generally agree with you on issues.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Money spent on advertizing isn't exactly lobbying, so the assumption is yours and yours alone.

Indeed, that's the money that's been spent noticeably aboveboard. How much more has been spent on think tanks and astroturf, etc?

You have lied about me in the past trevor and I have yet to respond in kind.

In fact I have been patient.

[-] -2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

propaganda and lobbying groups. I definitely encourage posting on that.

also what lies?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Whatever trevor.

You have a limited memory I see.

[-] -2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

the government is ran by big oil, corporations and banks. Sorry but they indeed fund both parties for corporate interests. If you want to call that a myth, then you should re-evaluate.

[-] -2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

the government is ran by big oil, corporations and banks. Sorry but they indeed fund both parties for corporate interests. If you want to call that a myth, then you should re-evaluate.

I don't remember accusing you of anything about drones. Maybe if you were pushing for Obama or something, I most likely would have accused of supporting drones, because people need to take responsibility in how they vote. If who you vote for someone who supports drone strikes, SO DO YOU because you voted for it to happen. People need to take responsibility for how they vote.

Where are your posts on the Afghanistan war being imperialism? Doesn't mean you are pro-war.

You try to discredit me because I don't post about ALEC every day like you do? LOL.

[-] 3 points by Ache4Change (3340) 1 year ago

Re. 'ALEC': http://www.nationofchange.org/koch-brothers-pour-more-cash-think-tanks-alec-1359821278 . Never Give Up! Occupy Wall Street! Solidarity.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

You ignore ALEC at the risk of our nation, they already own your State and are attempting to finalize the purchase of mine.

So, where is the responsibility of the vote as it applies to the people of Nebraska?

[-] -2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

and yet you do not explain the supposed lie you accuse me of.

Ultimately I think you are alright, because you are trying to take out the beast, but I do not like conversing with you. You are very difficult, and accusatory.

Later Shooz. Best of luck.

May I suggest going after the corporations that fund ALEC. Like Pfizer, Kraft etc etc. I'm sure you know them all.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

I'm so sorry you forgot about your accusations of me in regards to drones.

With a memory that poor it's hard to believe much of what you say.

Will you also try and continue the perpetration of the proven false duopoly myth?

I did a quick look at the plethora of ALEC threads and there's barely a word from you and what there is has nothing to do with ALEC.

[-] -1 points by Theeighthpieceuv8 (-32) from Seven Sisters, Wales 1 year ago

The overwhelming majority in the future will not have any healthcare - insurance costs will escalate beyond affordability and single payer is wholly unaffordable for our growing population in light of the loss of employment opportunity.

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

VT is getting closer to implementing a single payer system. We must agitate each of our states to do the same. That flexibility was built in because state based single payer was the best we could get from the corrupt politicians who fought against it.


[+] -4 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Too many federal regulations and mandates to make that work, you should realize this VQ.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

You said the discouraging "too much regs & mandates to make that work" I'm saying it can be done. I'm saying it WILL be done. I'm saying the flexibility was put into the ACA for just this purpose. This IS the way!

What regs & mandates are you referring to that represent "TOO many".?

You can't name any regs & mandates because you have no idea. You're just throwing that out there because you want people to give up. You don't want to improve the problem of forcing people to buy private health insurance. You just want to attack the plan, and discourage people.

I'm saying we can & must fight within our individual states. YOU have said we can't do it. YOU are suggesting we give up. Not me

[-] -3 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Looks like "Inclusion man" is starting to rear his ugly little VQ head.

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

This thread is about Healthcare. I support progressive VT efforts to eliminate the fed mandate to buy private health insurance by implementing a single payer system. Do you?

Personal comments are irrelevant. You appear to be against the fed mandate to buy private health insurance. Maybe not really?

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

I guess you think they should just give up. We can put the private health insurance corps out of business. But not if we think it's too difficult. It WILL be hard, but we MUST fight for the people! We must be bold, and courageous. Protests, boycotts. Nez'pas?