Forum Post: I'm a millionaire 99%er...
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 14, 2011, 6:06 p.m. EST by classicliberal
(312)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Hello all. I am a millionaire, yet I have never made more than $50,000 in a year. I did it all by saving my money judiciously, and staying educated. Have I wronged anyone? Do I have a right to my savings? Can I invest it in a business now or would that be wrong? Your thoughts are appreciated.
Good for you for having the restraint to save up your money, instead of blowing it on the latest toys. I'm in a similar situation, and I'm grateful that I have a nice home to go home to after work each day. I've got a University degree, so I've worked hard to get where I am. But not only did I work hard, I also consider myself lucky. I'm healthy and able bodied, and I was born into caring, middle class home. Many in this world aren't so lucky.
So you might want to consider how much of the great financial place you're in is due to your intelligence and restraint, and how much of it is a result of the situation you were born into. I'm sure you have to admit at least some of your money is luck.
If you are grateful, then my hat's off to you. What you have is an opportunity. Absolutely, invest in or start a business. But please, do your very best to make decisions that don't result in negative outcomes for society or the environment. I know you can't stick to this rule 100% if you want to remain competitive, all I ask is you try your very best. You have an opportunity to lead by example.
No matter how much money you have, you can't possibly consider yourself more important than the rest of humanity and/or the environment. And that's what I think OWS is all about. Corporate leaders have been putting their own desires ahead of everything else in the world, and for some strange reason, that really pisses people off.
The 1% = 9 million+ in assets.
being in this category is not an instant ticket to being evil,. but as jesus said;
"I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Matthew 19:23-24
You know neither seem very possible seeing that physics won't let a camel through the eye of a needle and Jesus does not exist.
Well, you know the old saying, "There's no atheist in a tent in Zucotti park smoking weed in November".
Thats because we are a smart breed who tend towards logic and try to avoid being cold.
You must not read much, because that scripture ends "But with God all things are possible"
I don't give two damns about your fictional God.
I never said I had any God in those posts... You must have seen things... Back off the weed please. I merely pointed out your literary inaccuracy.
"But with God all things are possible"
LOL! Oh, that's right, I forgot the other part of that post, let me read it back! {heh-hem}: "You must not read much, because that scripture [WHICH I TOTALLY AGREE WITH AND BELIEVE IN 100%] ends "But with God all things are possible" [SO YOU MUST NOT BE AN EVANGELICAL CHRISTIAN LIKE I AM]"
Sorry, you were right after all! silly me!
depends on the size of the needle...
True but you can't use a needle that is 20 feet tall
I think we're having to come to terms with a lot of things that just don't work.
Like beating cops and scaring children?
I'll assume you mean police brutality and yes...that's a good example of something that isn't acceptable.
And I'll assume you have no mental ability to make an informed or logical decision.
Be realistic. If criminals attack you and your family I'm sure you won't give them amnesty because they are wearing a badge.
It depends on whether or not I'm creating anarchy
no it means you make more than $340,000 a year
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Note however, Jesus didn't say it can't be done, he just said it would be hard. ;o)
because to become rich your mind is occupied by material matters rather then spiritual attainment.
But it CAN be done ;o)
Yes, just after the camel makes it through the eye of that needle
Some guy in the US already made a needle with an eye big enough to drive a car through, they walked a herd of camel through it. By the standards of todays technology it wasn't "HARD or difficult" to do at all, it was just stupid.
How familar are you with Quantum Mechanics ? ;o)
idk but I have watched a few episodes of Quantum Leap :)
Unified Field Theory also supports the Gnostic ideas of cosmic knowledge
Save the Jew worship for some other time. No one here cares.
No, $9 million is far less than the 1% of the population. Seriously, put a little effort into it.
Jesus asked us to be generous. But remember, it was a personal appeal. He never pitched a Roman social welfare state.
Not income, assets. Where is your effort?
Same thing, spike. $9 million puts you well above just the 1%.
Income and assets are the same thing? Ah, no!
Sorry, my bad, the entry level for the top 1% is $14 million!
"When you look at the disparity in net worth, things look even more skewed. Wealthier Americans have assets — in home equity, stocks and other investments — that generally outstrip their cash income. Average wealth of the top 1 percent was almost $14 million in 2009, according to a 2011 report from the Economic Policy Institute. That’s down from a peak of $19.2 million in 2007."
http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/680939/who_are_the_1_and_what_do_they_do_for_a_living/
There a lots of numbers and data, you can pick and choose what you like, however facts are facts, $1 million in assets is not even close to the 1%!
I'll make it to $14 million and none of you are getting a god damned cent. You'll have to pry it all out of my hands over my lifeless corpse.
will do.
Bring it!
unfortunately the government will try to take it from you with force....none of these people who replied with yes would actually never do it themselves, but use the force of Gov. thugs to do what they are too cowardly unabe to do. Humble yourselves people. Stealing is not a loving thing to do you know.
That may be an average of the top 1%, but it isn't close to the entry point. For net worth, the top 1% starts way below $14 million. On an income basis, it's only about $450k per year.
If you're against income skew, why just go after the easy and convenient targets fed by envy? If OWS were honestly against income skew in America, they'd condemn an open border, illegitimacy, and dropping out; all three are rocket fuel for poverty, yet don't warrant a peep out of OWS. Fight poverty, occupy the border.
Wow, you are an idiot. Envy? Really? Try to get a clue, perhaps you can purchase one with money. Boarder controls, that is your answer to the bankster occupation? Just wow. Go back to your country club behind the wire fence with the armed guards at the gate, perhaps the under payed guards will keep us out.
Don't be ridiculous.
If you don't like poverty you dumbass, at least have the sense to understand some important drivers. If we continue to mass import people with 6th grade educations that can only clean toilets or wash cars for a living, will WILL continue to expand poverty and income skew. Are you really so stupid that you don't know this?
How about holding a protest outside a project to demand an end to destructive choices? Nope, didn't think so even though illegitimacy is heavily linked to poverty.
How about protesting kids and their parent(s) involved in dropping out? Nope, didn't think so even though making the choice to drop out is making a choice that creates poverty.
Yours is the easy cheap shot blaming bankers for everything. But when you get to the hard stuff, honest drivers of poverty, you fold.
One world, One people, ONE.
You are so caught up in small-mindedness, you fail to see the world. It is not about statistics or skews, it is about justice and a system that funnels wealth from the many to the few. Not just in one city, state, or country, these are global systems of injustice. Keeping some poor folks out of the USA to manipulate the numbers is so far off the mark that it is not even funny. America is full of European immigrants and now they want to stop others from coming in. Talk about a cheap shot, living in denial of reality is the cheapest.
Closing the borders, denying social and economic inequity and the broken corrupted system that maintains it, and spouting nonsense like "How about holding a protest outside a project to demand an end to destructive choices" really does show what little you are made of. What would you know about other peoples lives, their struggles, and the choices they are forced to take by a system that is utterly indifferent to their suffering? Grow up.
Real Solutions; Permaculture, Relocalize, Degrowth, SlowMoney, etc.
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Sure, the American social welfare state is now a global entitlement paid for, of course, by someone other than yourself.
You're a hyperventilating demagogue. Most poverty in the United States is either imported or created by bad personal decisions. It's a simple fact, but one that's utterly brushed off by moonbats like you ready to find a cheap target to blame.
Understanding drivers of poverty isn't indifference to poverty. Your choice to ignore them in a faux compassion of shouting and blaming is the real indifference.
I got a million bucks too. Ok, so most of it is in investments making more money, but about all the money I make I give it away to people who trying to make something of themselves, and those who are much less fortunate than I. Some people might call that socialism. What are you doing with your money?
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I'm not sure how that could be construed as socialism. I'm planning on using the money to provide people with goods or services they are looking for, and providing jobs to others along the way.
No Sir, you are not at fault, congratulations! Fantastic job! Just don't buy out politicians and remember where you came from. Truth be told it will take a lot more money than that to add to the already corrupt system we live in. Understand, this is not the poor against the rich, it is the whole of society against the corrupt elite.
Okay thanks, sounds accurate to me.
your words sound commendable. I believe that i'd even be proud to work for you. But, because my mother worked a job, went to college and raised four children on her own, I had no discipline when i was younger so my rap sheet is too large for any recruiting agency to take my resume seriously. But i hope you find the employees you need to expand your horizon. cheers!
Do I have the right to a job? a living wage? an education? To bail me out of debt? Have I wronged anyone? Do I have a right to protest Wall Street crime? Can I expect the judicial system to treat me the same way it works for the elite? Your thoughts are appreciated.
yehwhat?
Good, than help me save America from this:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/
Oh gosh... :O
Yes, they are a nasty bunch. Here's some more of what they did:
http://www.cbronline.com/news/duncan_hunter_urges_toshiba_boycott
http://www.nytimes.com/1988/04/15/opinion/l-punishing-toshiba-is-a-secondary-boycott-809388.html
The question you need to answer is how did you make your money? If you made your money by illegal means, by insider trading, by doing ethical and morally wrong things to get your money, yes this includes unethical investing then no you do not have the right to your savings since in essence you stole it from someone. If you made it ethically and responsibly than yes of course you should feel very proud of your self. As a person with the means to invest into companies you then have the responsibility of investing in not just what has the highest financial return but also what is the "right" place to invest. When you invest you are voting for that company to succeed. If that company has immoral such as Haliburton or Big Oil or Lockhead, etc, etc then yes youbecome the problem by lending them capitol to invest in unethical behavior, you are aiding and abedding criminals. If you research companies well and invest in social responsible companies, of which there are tons of lists of these kinds of companies with high returns, then you are investing in the positive future of our nation, invest in green energy would probably the best place to but money right now before it really explodes, you can say you helped get america off oil by putting up the cash for solar and wind companies to use to build there infrastructure. Money is not inherently evil, I don't think any one here is saying that, it is all how you chose to use it, and at a certain point when you feel no anxiety about your retirement and your needs, yes you probably should focus on something much more fullfilling than collecting money in a big pile. perhaps something spiritual or maybe spend time with family and friends (real friends not connections you call friends because they help you financial) or even more rewarding is going back to school and just taking classes in subjects you are interested in that don't have anything to do with making money, the liberal arts, history, photography, philosophy, things that make you even better at being a good human being. maybe you enjoy giving back to your community somehow or teaching others about socially responsible personal finance techniques.
I appreciate your advice. However, I really can't see green energy being a good investment unless the price of oil is to double or triple soon. And it appears the current occupant has poor prospects in '12, so any help he may have planned for the industry can't be but so certain. Cheers
Can you consider investing a little in a non-profit business that would support OWS and related movements in united states. I definitely dont wish you to invest in Goldman sachs and banking stocks. Send me message if you wish to invest in business whos goal is to support ows
Well, I'd certainly like to know your secret. I save money judiciously, but mathematically speaking, just putting money away wont get you to millionaire status. What investment strategies did you use?
For one thing I live on a small lot in a rural area, the cost of living out here is low compared to in cities. There may seem to be less economic opportunity out here than in a city, but the atmosphere breeds creativity and there is still plenty of opportunity. Second of all, pay off your mortgage if you have one. It's just like investing 7% every time you make a principal payment. Quit eating out if you do, or cut back (I wear jeans with holes in the knees on occasion and I've basically never been to a restaurant.) Pretty much cut discretionary spending to nil at least for a few years and pay down any debts you might have. Spend as much time as you can stand educating yourself about the system and learn ways to cut the corporate umbilical cord. It may seem futile and silly at first but when you get to the point where I am it will all be worth it.
That which you are posing is not really the point of this dispute. The true and real oppression of rights through the decades must be addressed. Being rich is not the problem it is how the poor are abused.
If you earned it honestly congratulations.
On the other hand If you took a bailout, or made fraudulent deals or inside trades to get where you are, or if you lobbied government in order to decriminalize your business strategies, or just to make it profitable, I'm probably posting about you here ;)
No bailouts for me. I stand solidly with this movement when it comes to the despicable welfare actions of corporations and their political pets.
~welcome to the 99%~
just watch out for trolls, ignore them and focus on those who display careful thought. share what you know and learn what you can. lick'em&stick'em
By earning your money good for you!! its a capitalist country we live in....make a business and flourish....
Anyone who owns a brownstone in Brooklyn is a millionaire.
okay.... I didn't say I do. And I don't.
Its your money bro!! Do what you want just watch out somebody might accuse you of corruption or greed. If I was you I would save it for your retirement, because if you open a Business a bunch of people might show up out side wile you are working and demand free health care higher taxes for you and higher pay for your employees. Then your workers will start a Union and demand you share more of the profits with them. Can you blame them I mean why would you work hard for money when you can just protest and collect donations to fund a nice free vacation to Egypt were you can meet with the Muslim Brotherhood to talk about ways to destroy America and all the freedoms we have hear. You know what why dont you just take your life savings and give it to OWS they know what to do with your money better than you do.
Folks are not reading your post correctly. You are not saying you are in the 1%, but that you are a millionaire in the 99%. Correct?
Yes that is correct.
I don't think having money makes you a 1%'er. Didn't FOX news point out that Micheal Moore has $10 million in assets? Nobody would consider Micheal Moore as a 1% er. There are talented people such as musicians, film-makers, actors, authors, artists, as well as doctors, archietects, etc. that certainly earned their money.
Have you wronged anyone? Not for anyone to say except yourself. Most of us have wronged another person at some time in their lives.
Do you have a right to your savings? I'm not sure if it's mentioned in the constitution, but I doubt that anyone in the 99% is looking to take your savings away. Perhaps with a wealth tax, sure.
However, there is a chance you might lose your savings through things like hyperinflation if the dollar collapses. You might want to consider switching to precious metals.
Can you invest it in a business or would that be wrong? You don't have to ask anyone's permission to invest in a business. I don't know why you are asking us for business advice, if you are the millionaire.
I would think carefully about what sort of business you were going to invest your money in. You might want to consider getting a small farm instead.
Good call on the farm, that is actually what I have in mind. The reason I asked about starting a business being wrong is because I've seen a few folks on this forum say that all private ownership of business is wrong and that profit cannot be received except at the plundering of human rights and the environment.
Well I don't think that even hard line Communists would have a problem today with the private ownership of a Mom and Pop store. Certainly in the Soviet Union many stores and farms were 'collectivized' and became the property of the state. Clearly this was a disaster on many levels.
However, is the mega-corporation really any different? Large agricultural corporations have been buying out the small farmer, eventually collectivizing farms on their own. The only difference is that instead of 'the state', these farms are owned by the corporation.
This is why Adam Smith, the father of capitalism was -opposed- to corporations. He saw them as being collectivist, buying up supply lines and reducing the small companies and competition which he thought was so beneficial. Eventually, we would have only a few corporations that have a monopoly on certain products, such as food production, media, etc.
This is the economic system which existed before Capitalism, called Mercantilism. Mercantilism is the economic system under which the spice trade, sugar trade, and slave trade flourished.
I.G. Farben was an example of a company like that in Nazi Germany, and you can also think of the former Soviet Union as one huge corporation that owned and produced everything. All of Canada was once owned by one company, called the Hudson's Bay company.
When Karl Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto in 1838, and talked about the workers owning the means of production, he meant that the workers should take over the factories for themselves. He wasn't even considering agriculture at the time. At that time, workers attended huge, dangerous machines the size of locomotives. Mass production would be needed by the future society, so if the workers wanted the products, they would have to take the factories over and keep and run the machines for themselves.
Today though, there are no factories left to take over, they have all been shipped overseas. Also, 'the means of production' have shrunk in size over 200 years, so 'the workers' probably already have the means of production in their own basements or garage. Nobody is going to come up to someone making furniture with his friends in their basement and say "sorry guys, this is the property of the state now".
IN fact, there are new machines available which can mass produce items on their own, and they are about the size of a desk top computer. Called 'rapid prototyping', you can get the plans for these machines and build them yourself. There is no copyright for them.
In fact, I see Capitalism and Communism as being two separate approaches to the problem of Mercantilism and the stagnation it brings. Communism focuses on unskilled labour, Capitalism focuses on skilled labour.
Under Mercaniltism, the head of the organization raked in massive profits, and owned everything within his company. He paid his workers enough to get by on, while owning all the products that they used or made.
Adam Smith was suggesting to the craftsmen (tailors, blacksmiths), that instead of working for a 'joint-stock' company, they could start a small business for themselves. Essentially, cutting loose from a corporation and taking control of the products of their own labour and marketing them for themselves.
There is a difference though between socialist collectivism and corporate collectivism. Mind you, I'm not saying one is better than the other, but with corporate collectivism the body must satisfy its customers. Very few industries are controlled entirely by one body. Compare the customer satisfaction rate of the DMV with that of Wal-Mart.
Hmm, but if Wal-Mart was the only game in town, you wouldn't have any other choice. Then, it would be more comparable to the DMV. Also I think a lot of it is the service aspect of it. Wal-Mart goes out of it's way to make sure that the people that serve you are cheerful and obedient.
I just don't see a big difference between socialist collectivism and corporate. A lot of that difference is public relations, smoke and mirror, window dressing.
There isn't a whole lot of difference between big agriculture and the collective farms of the soviet union, or for that matter the wealthy land owners of Ancient Rome that bought up all the farms of the Roman Army when they were off at war, hoping they would die.
The Robber Barons of the 19th century would be another example of corporate collectivism. IMHO.
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Most epic statement on here.
What are you so frightened of ?!
The Parasitic 'waay less than 1%' are depriving you of even the prospect of a real return on your savings as they have contrived access to the 'cheapest money' (ahem!) via Negative Real Interest Rates !!
Why are you seeking to ascribe unto 'OWS', The Dark Powers Of THE BANK$TER$ and their Mesmeric Mythical-Money Matrix ?!
"Maybe you Just Need to Un-Plug maan !",
Nosce Te Ipsum ...
You and I are screwed! The only way the country will really be able to get out of the current mess is to promote rampant inflation. That will help the folks that were dumb enough to get buried in debt, and punish the responsible by destroying the value of our savings.
In answer to your questions: no, yes, and you are free to invest it anyway you wish. The 1% that OWS refers to are those handful (comparatively) of mega-rich that have used their riches to buy the influence of our government at the expense of the common man and our environment. Also the banksters on Wall Street that have committed the outright fraud that has been instrumental in the global economic collapse we are now facing. We have no problem with honest people, no matter how wealthy.
And who gets to decide the guilty from the innocent? OWS? You? I think not.
The thing is, I agree largely with what you are saying, but OWS supporters make a tactical error when they refer to the "top 1%" instead of the "Top millionth". That would be the 300 richest people in the country, that's about right as far as corruption goes.
You have a good point. There has been quite a bit of misunderstanding about the 99% - 1%, in fact OWS has received quite a bit of flak over it. I believe it's meant metaphorically, because it doesn't actually refer to income, it refers to corruption. I think it would be unfair to assume that all the mega-rich are corrupt but, not being one, I could be very wrong. I hope not, I'd like to think there are some good people amongst the top-tier, for if there isn't, it's a sad world indeed.
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Um, I never claimed to be a 1%er. If you think that's what I wrote, you need glasses.
Not according to the Occutards you don't.
Don't what?
If I had your money I would retire and move to Indonesia. Then I would read books until my death.
Cool.
You need to share your wealth with all of us. Remember a very wise man once said " from each by his ability, to each by his need " Words to live by.
But, what makes me wealthy? Instead of buying worthless consumer goods such as Ipads, tons of clothing, etc, I walk around wearing jeans with holes in the knees, and I don't own an Ipad, but I have all the money I would have spent on that garbage. You've probably made the same amount of money or more than I did during your life, but I saved mine. So just because I judiciously saved my resources means you have a right to them? I don't think you have a right to them any more than I have a right to your Ipad and designer jeans.
We just allocated differently.
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Congrats on scraping together financial security especially with such a limited income... truly impressive! Enjoy it, you've earned it.
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How did you make your million(s) if I may ask?
1% in the US is making more than $340,000 a year
How did this post end up with so many down arrows??? You stated a mathematical fact.
Yes, get rid of your money. Throw it away and join us. Better yet, send it to me and I will dispose of it to some charity deserving of it.
'kay.
YES! You can do as you please. you're a credit to all of us, and I'm working hard to be exactly in your shoes.
I only have one suggestion: get off of this page, and don't try to understand these people - they'll be gone in a fortnight. (take the suggestion - I've been on here way too long today trying to make sense of all of this.)
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You have not wronged anyone in my opinion based on the information given. You shouldn't be faulted for good money management. That's a plus actually to me, it shows an ability to be responsible.
I think business is part of human society naturally. The thing to me that personally speaking why i support Occupy is because they are drawing attention to the very shady higher level spending and the sub-prime mortgages, derivitives, blah blah blah, which i am educated on but i won't regurgitate what everyone's heard for the 1000th time.
It's pretty well established in many ways what goes on, the thing for me is addressing the problem and changing it. People can agree that the wealth disparity here and abroad with austerity measures, countries going into bankruptcy etc. that this system is sinking like the titanic, and we need to change it to something better or go down with the sinking ship.
Everyday people, if they do their due diligence and work hard, save money without ripping other people off in the process, but do it honestly, then i have no problem with that at all, personally speaking.
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We need you to teach a class to everyone that is on their own or raising a family. This is exactly what America should be doing. Saving, spending below their means and NOT be a lemming that follows the 1% spend machine.
Nothing wrong except if you saved everything you earned it would add up to 20 years of saving. Who paid your bills while you were saving for 20 years?
Capital appreciation, interest, dividends, etc. If you have 1 mill today, and are invested wisely, there's no reason why that can't grow to 2 mill in ten years. Nothing wrong with that. That's not getting a 150 mill bonus while your company rapes individuals.
He stated $50k per year. Far cry from $20 mil.
That's the magic of compound interest. Look up the rule of 72. It's sad that they don't teach that stuff in schools.
Still no reply. Who paid the bills?
Very likely he or she did. If the poster started saving at an early age, compound interest in safe investments can do that. We don't know how old the poster is. If they are 30, becoming a millionaire would be tough, but if they are 90 it would have been very easy. In my twenties I invested half of everything I earned. Sometimes I made bad choices, but I learned from that. I worked very hard and gave up a lot of frivolous things that my peers enjoyed. Today in my mid forties I'm debt free, and a millionaire. A lot of those peers from my 20s are still struggling. I'm not what people think of as rich though. If you ever met me, I'd be waring clothes from the Goodwill, and I drive a $20K base model car. I earn well above $100K, and my wife is now retired in her 30s because I support her.
Well put Corium. It's sad that so many people look upon individuals like you and the OP with suspicion. You can indeed amass a million dollars in savings if you have a decent paying steady job, live below your means, save at least ten percent (hopefully a lot more) and maybe a little invested. Add a bit of good luck and almost anyone can do it. It's done every day. And I agree completely. It definitely SHOULD be taught in school.
No, as long as you made your money without lies, stealing or cheating anyone you have not wronged anyone. We need investment in "American" companies, but if you are investing in a country overseas then yes that is wrong.
He can invest his money anywhere he damn well pleases. Its not "wrong" to invest elsewhere.
You may be right, but that is just my opinion which may not be right! I just know that our economy is in need of help right now. peace