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Forum Post: If Mittens pulls this one off.......

Posted 1 year ago on Aug. 30, 2012, 8:15 p.m. EST by Builder (4202)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

An excerpt from MAtt Taibi's analysis of willard in the recent Rolling Stone. Oh, Robert Reich made the same point, more succinctly and less amusingly.

By making debt the centerpiece of his campaign, Romney was making a calculated bluff of historic dimensions – placing a massive all-in bet on the rank incompetence of the American press corps.

The result has been a brilliant comedy: A man makes a $250 million fortune loading up companies with debt and then extracting million-dollar fees from those same companies, in exchange for the generous service of telling them who needs to be fired in order to finance the debt payments he saddled them with in the first place.

That same man then runs for president riding an image of children roasting on flames of debt, choosing as his running mate perhaps the only politician in America more pompous and self-righteous on the subject of the evils of borrowed money than the candidate himself.

If Romney pulls off this whopper, you'll have to tip your hat to him: No one in history has ever successfully run for president riding this big of a lie. It's almost enough to make you think he really is qualified for the White House.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/greed-and-debt-the-true-story-of-mitt-romney-and-bain-capital-20120829#ixzz2521bVxP0

123 Comments

123 Comments


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[-] 5 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

One thing, it's "Myth Romney." Only facts stand in his way.

[-] 1 points by gsw (2880) 1 year ago

Yes, I am better off than I was four years ago, in one small way, only because I don't have see a buffoon right wing fact-inventer spew spin and make up stuff, start wars for no reason, 24 hours a day.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/08/31/2275430/campaigning-republicans-show-aversion.html#storylink=misearch

And McCain was insane last night pushing the right wing war machine, and bushes handlers are waiting in the wings to get back in the world spotlight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bovAL6_wLMw

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/08/31/2275136/at-gop-convention-in-tampa-full.html#storylink=misearch

For me, Obama isn't reversing the Bush Doctrines, prosecuting the war criminals, so I must look to a real human rights fighter, who chan help change the tone in the country: www.voterocky.org

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

Since the CBO can run their model with various policies (they ran it with Romney's budget and found that the same number of jobs will be created with them or without them, 12 million), it would be interesting to run it with the policies that Obama wanted to see where we would be today without subversive GOP obstruction.

He tried to avoid upsetting them to try to get them on board (stupidly most think) so some of his proposals weren't exactly what he wanted but what he thought he might be able to get.

He was obviously wrong on a number of civil rights issues, why I don't know. But I do know it could have been worse. And It can certainly can get worse in the future.

[-] 1 points by gsw (2880) 1 year ago

yes, I had heard about the 12 million jobs could be achieved regardless.

On the other hand the Sunday Morning News Shows said that would be ambitious, and how would it be accomplished, with no real plan, except "energy" could create 1 million jobs.

I am afraid the Republicans, who seem to say one thing and do another, will run up deficit more, and at same time slash social programs. Romney says he wants to keep military spending the same. But with the way he and his party are rattling the sabers, it is like they have not learned anything from the Bush Years.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

Actually he said he wants to increase Defense spending, but that was in the morning, by night his position had changed, not once but several times.

If you go back the early Bush years the GOP quotes re the economy shows that they were all for stimulus consistently. It was part of their argument for his tax cuts. It isn't what they believe that is scary, it is what they are willing to do. They have deliberately sunk the economy, laying off public workers, withholding transportation project funds etc. Anything to sink Obama. Anything! So, they proved they could make it worse, and we are supposed to blame that on Obama? Whose policies are we really following? Theirs, not his.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

This article is gonna be huge. Taibbi is heroic. Just saw him on current tv talkin about this. Everyone should read this & everything he has written.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

"The result has been a brilliant comedy: A man makes a $250 million fortune loading up companies with debt and then extracting million-dollar fees from those same companies, in exchange for the generous service of telling them who needs to be fired in order to finance the debt payments he saddled them with in the first place."


MSNBC has been reporting this for weeks & clearly using the word LIE


I see three big issues:

1→ How can so many Americans be STUPID enough to believe lies that are instantly fact checked to be proven lies. Didn't s hrubs WMDs teach any of them the truth ????
2→ If you want to sleep tonight - don't read this:
˙ ˙ ˙ ˙ ˙ ˙ ˙ ˙ ˙ ˙ ˙ ˙ ˙ ˙ ˙˙ ˙ ˙˙ ˙ ˙ ˙ ˙ ˙ ˙ ˙ ˙willard picks more supreme court justices
3→ There are many people on this site who are so hysterically angry at Obama because he was not the all powerful savior they expected, that they will throw a tantrum and not obstruct willard from his koch labors.

[-] 0 points by Faraujo (-4) 1 year ago

So you criticize the man who has been successful and support the man who had no experience. That makes a lot of sense.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

Obama "saved" GM
willard wanted to let it die - like many of his aquisitions
what do you think will happen if willard-david-charles-sheldon
aquires America

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 1 year ago

Do you also think it was good that some of the big banks were saved? The banks, just like GM and just like countless other companies in America, made poor business decisions and found themselves floundering. I don't the government should be choosing who can survive and who can die just so GM can continue to produce crappy cars and Wall Street can continue gambling with our money.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

If GM makes such crappy cars why have their sales skyrocketted? USA has made a PROFIT on this bailout


Banks - a completly different matter.
We should have bailed them out
with many conditions - such as
we own part of the bank.
no employee should make more than a certain amount
obligations to loan money to small borrowers
etc

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 1 year ago

Because the government buys a ton of them, as they should though considering they wanted to make a profit off of the loan. That doesn't change the fact they are crappy cars.

My wife and I were test driving SUVs earlier this year and the Chevy Traverse (or the GMC Arcadia) was a complete piece of shit. Cheap interior, no power, and no fun to drive. Once you add in comparable options, we got an Acura MDX for about the same price and get a much nicer car.

Seriously though, don't take my word for it. Go test drive some GM cars and then try out a similar Japanese made vehicle and see the difference in quality. Or just go to Consumer Reports and see the difference in reliability. The Big 3 have certainly made improvements but they have a long, long way to go to be able to compete successfully with the Japanese.

[-] -1 points by Faraujo (-4) 1 year ago

Why GM over Ford? Why make those decisions and not let the market make them. Why Solyndra over Devon Energy.

It's clear that the business world has no confidence in Obama and won't spend as long as he is in office proposing these crazy ideas which means high unemployment.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

any businessman that refuses to spend - who knows he can make a profit should be fired. profits are driven by demand - not tax cuts


why let the govt make the decision to subsidize oil companies

[-] 1 points by Faraujo (-4) 1 year ago

Oil companies should not GE subsidized just like Boeing should not bu the EXIM bank was just renewed.

Companies are private. They do not have to listen to the whining of a bunch of socialists.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (18322) 1 year ago

"Mitt Romney, Catastrophe : Barack Obama, Disaster" (Video - Cornel West and Paul Street) :

"When the Rich Have 85 Percent of US Wealth, ‘Equality of Opportunity’ Can’t Exist", by 'The Young Turks with Cenk Uygur & Economist and Nobel Prize winner Dr. Joseph Stiglitz :

"From Democracy to Neoliberal Oligarchy", ('KPFA - Guns & Butter', Audio Interview With Dr. Michael Hudson) :

The Fkn MSM 'Smoke & Mirrors' & total lack of any true journalism in The U$A is utterly mind blowing ! Mitt for B(r)ainS is giving his speech tonight & I have resolved to watch it !! Wish me luck !!!

Good Post 'B' & 'onyer m8' & just heard that Clint fkn Eastwood is going to be there for The Romulan !!

WTF ?!

qui tacet consentire ...

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Yeah, you'll need all the luck you can get.

Clint (or Clunk, as we call him here) is possibly racist.

In all of his movies, try and spot an Afro-American. It's like they don't exist.

[-] -1 points by TheRazor (-329) 1 year ago

You are a complete fucking asshole, total. Grade A sphincter. Asshole personified.

In Clint's Oscar winning movie Unforgiven, he co starred Morgan Freeman. Black. In his Dirty Harry Movies he co starred a black, a fmale and a Latino.

How about Invictus, which includes Nelson Mandela as a main character? How about Bird, an autobiography of Charlie Parker, a black man.

I love destroying fuckheads. Man, did I crush you!!

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Bahahahahahahahah. You are a total grade C dunce.

I like how you take the bait every time. Catfish stew.

[-] -1 points by TheRazor (-329) 1 year ago

Cover your lying ass, pussy whipped, weak spined, dogworm coward, i just ate you for lunch. And quit licking my boots, they are shiny enough after stepping onyour throat.

BOOTLICKING COWARD

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

How young are you?

I've been on political boards for nearly twenty years.

You've fallen for every bait in existence.

I'm thinking your time here is pretty limited, so get all the profanities you can think of out there real soon, now. Unless you've run out, already. Catfish stew.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (18322) 1 year ago

'B' : 4am where I am - what about you ? & OMG ... do Americans really buy this Romulan shit ?

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Lunchtime here, Shadz.

Just watching my brindle staffy pup chewing on his first big pork bone.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (18322) 1 year ago

Lucky You - I'm watching an Alien Human Hybrid preparing Alien Take Over !!!

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34891) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

You watching coverage of the RNC? Strong stomach?

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (18322) 1 year ago

I'm In Training ! Gorra know Romulan from Vulcan from Ferengi !!

Gorra learn their lingo & help prepare The Human Resistance !!!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34891) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

corpoRATist's - go heavy on the Ferengi. But also psycho and sociopaths so plenty of Romulan too. Logic? Huh. wouldn't think you would need much Spock lingo.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (18322) 1 year ago

Who TF is gonna "live long & prosper" with these Repugnant Fools ?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34891) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

LOL - There - that is exactly the problem. Wish more folks around here ( USA ) were more noticeably aware of that fact. Though the closeness of the race(?) - I am wondering cause no one I have talked to on the street has any good thing to say about the current RINO's in office or running for office.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (18322) 1 year ago

Not an Americanian so don't get "RINO" but I survived The BBC coverage of The RNC !!!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34891) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Republican In Name Only


[-] 1 points by shadz66 (6772) 0 minutes ago

Not an Americanian so don't get "RINO" but I survived The BBC coverage of The RNC !!! ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (18322) 1 year ago

Huh ?! Now I'm seeing DoUble !! Time for bed !!!

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

LOL. Good for you. I think.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (18322) 1 year ago

I've got a Big Barf Bucket handy !!!

I'm eyeing it up as I type !!

Mitt for B(r)ains for POTUS

... u couldn't make it up !

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Oh, I get what you're saying now.

Alien takeover is right though. LOL

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (18322) 1 year ago

"Romney and Ryan : Right Wing Billionaires Think it's Time to Take the Gloves Off", by "The Real News" { http://therealnews.com/t2/ } :

"The right wing elite think they can make a major breakthrough, they can end the last vestiges of the welfare state".

e tenebris ...

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (18322) 1 year ago

Long Live Homo Sapiens Sapiens !!!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34891) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

OOO - I thought that pork bones were not good as they splinter.

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

These are spinal bones.

Too thick even for the little fella to crunch.

Gotta get rid of all these tiny little needle teeth of his, first up.

He's chewing everything. My toes included. OUCH.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34891) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

LOL - yeah them puppy needle teeth are somethin else. Good for em to learn as to what is acceptable for them to knaw on too.

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

That one bone has kept him going for two hours now.

Best value dog chow in the shop.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34891) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Awesome pup pacifier. Yeah used to like to give my Dogs Cow Bones.

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Local butcher. Had only pork.

Doesn't seem to matter though.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34891) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

No I don't suppose at that young age - needle teeth and all. One of my Neighbors used to give his Shepard a bowling pin to chew on - I never cared for him doing that though.

[-] -2 points by TheRazor (-329) 1 year ago

Whatever.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (18322) 1 year ago

It's All Gone Nuremberg, 1939 !!! But it's Tampa, 2012 !! Big Barf !

verum ex absurdo ...

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

talking numbers not issues

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Mitt is the 2012 version of Kerry/Dole.

The bombs are still dropping, the banks are still robbing.

No need for change. Plus, Obama is a better bullshitter than Mittens, which is crucial for maintaining faith in this broken down system.

[-] 0 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 1 year ago

Rocky Anderson calls Obama the more effective evil.

http://www.voterocky.org/spoiler_or_moral_alternative

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Evil nevertheless though, right?

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 1 year ago

Yes. A wolf in sheep's clothing is more dangerous than a wolf.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I'm of the opinion that the current prez might not have been aware of the role before stepping up to the plate. It becomes a survival role thereafter.

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 1 year ago

I think he knew that Goldman Sachs didn't give him over a million dollars in 2008 out of the goodness of their hearts.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

It's the game they all play on their way to the seat. I mean that he didn't realise that his promises mean nothing when up against the criminals really in control of the White House.

The last admin was just as much in the dark to the machinations happening behind his back, and that's how the big players like it. The VP, on the other hand, made little secret of his involvement. Rubbed everyone's nose in it.

[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

very well said indeed

[-] 2 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Well said

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (18322) 1 year ago

"How Did Mitt Romney Get So Rich ?" :

by Robert Reich.

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Oh, a past abuser.

Welcome back ol' chum.

[-] 0 points by Mooks (1985) 1 year ago

A big difference is the risk tolerance in running a company compared to running the United States. More debt means more risk, but it also could mean more growth. With a company, sometimes the debt is worth the risk for the possibility of a big pay day. When you consider the whole US, it is a whole other story because the possibility of bankruptcy is obviously more catastrophic for the United States than for a single company.

Not that I think Mitt is the man to be President anymore than Obama, but he obviously understands the concept of debt and leverage and the risk/return associated with it.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13084) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Here's another one:

Posted: 08/08/2012 9:38 am Updated: 08/09/2012 12:21 am

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Look a little deeper.

Mitt understands lumbering a profitable company with debt, and milking it into extinction for his own personal gain. Jobs lost mean people homeless.

As the article states, this means he's almost qualified for the White House.

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 1 year ago

I have no doubt Mitt made money when a company went under but he would make a lot more when it was successful. I am sure he wanted every company he bought to be as successful as Staples or Dunkin Donuts or whatever other profitable company Bain owned, for no other reason than they would make more money. I agree that he was only in it for personal gain, but the most personal gain was achieved by growing successful companies. The goal was to take on debt to grow a company and sometimes it would backfire. The debt of the US and the debt of a private company are two completely different things.

[-] -1 points by brudlo (-454) 1 year ago

every company that obama backed/gambled on ( with taxpayer money) went bust.

[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13084) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Mitt Romney, it turns out, is the perfect frontman for Wall Street's greed revolution. He's not a two-bit, shifty-eyed huckster like Lloyd Blankfein. He's not a sighing, eye-rolling, arrogant jerkwad like Jamie Dimon. But Mitt believes the same things those guys believe: He's been right with them on the front lines of the financialization revolution, a decades-long campaign in which the old, simple, let's-make-stuff-and-sell-it manufacturing economy was replaced with a new, highly complex, let's-take-stuff-and-trash-it financial economy. Instead of cars and airplanes, we built swaps, CDOs and other toxic financial products. Instead of building new companies from the ground up, we took out massive bank loans and used them to acquire existing firms, liquidating every asset in sight and leaving the target companies holding the note. The new borrow-and-conquer economy was morally sanctified by an almost religious faith in the grossly euphemistic concept of "creative destruction," and amounted to a total abdication of collective responsibility by America's rich, whose new thing was making assloads of money in ever-shorter campaigns of economic conquest, sending the proceeds offshore, and shrugging as the great towns and factories their parents and grandparents built were shuttered and boarded up, crushed by a true prairie fire of debt.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/greed-and-debt-the-true-story-of-mitt-romney-and-bain-capital-20120829#ixzz255kG3sZA

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Powerful stuff. Corporate piracy.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34891) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Crapital Venture - Venture Crapitalism? You bet - cut throat from way back.

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

It's from the original link up top.

Should have read the whole thing before I posted it.

Too much on the plate at the moment. Thanks ZenDog.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13084) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

the fuckers don't care about Americans, American jobs, American productivity, let alone the drop in tax revenue from shipping jobs over seas -

they are intent on tanking the whole country. And while they do, all their money is safe in Switzerland or Lichtenstein or wherever.

the fuckers

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34891) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

[-] 1 points by Builder (1686) 0 minutes ago

It's from the original link up top.

Should have read the whole thing before I posted it.

Too much on the plate at the moment. Thanks ZenDog. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink

[-] 0 points by brudlo (-454) 1 year ago

quite true, obama, his owners, his adminstration ,dont give a damn about america.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13084) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I don't believe that is true, and I do think you have to completely misinterprit the evidence to make that claim.

Look at the difference between FEMA under Bushite

and FEMA under Obama

In one city: New Orleans

[-] 0 points by brudlo (-454) 1 year ago

romney will be in louisiana today meeting with jindal,...... obama, ? where is he?

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13084) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

what - you think he should swoop in with his entourage of secret service agents and media megaphones?

I think it's wise to let the situation stabilize before taking a tour.

[-] -2 points by brudlo (-454) 1 year ago

If a republican president was in office you ( and the entire left wing media, abccbsnbccnnmsnbc , the ny times, boston globe, l.a times) would be screaming " where is the president". romney is there to day speaking with jindal. obama is showing up sometime on monday, after he gets in some fundraising .

[-] -1 points by brudlo (-454) 1 year ago

any comments about what ray nagin said about making new orleans a " chocolate city"? the is no missing you racism in that unless you're willfully blind and deaf.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13084) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

go ahead, state the obvious, ray nagin ( balck democrat) is a racist. the msm never went after him on his statement. new orleans is below sea level, a 30 minute cloudburst floods the streets, i've been there and seen it for myself. it has nothing to do with" global warming "or "climate change". its below sea level. your bias is showing.

you are a right wing idiot -

  • 2 degrees Celcius

Some context: So far, we've raised the average temperature of the planet just under 0.8 degrees Celsius, and that has caused far more damage than most scientists expected. (A third of summer sea ice in the Arctic is gone, the oceans are 30 percent more acidic, and since warm air holds more water vapor than cold, the atmosphere over the oceans is a shocking five percent wetter, loading the dice for devastating floods.) Given those impacts, in fact, many scientists have come to think that two degrees is far too lenient a target. "Any number much above one degree involves a gamble," writes Kerry Emanuel of MIT, a leading authority on hurricanes, "and the odds become less and less favorable as the temperature goes up."

  • 565 gigatons

Scientists estimate that humans can pour roughly 565 more gigatons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere by midcentury and still have some reasonable hope of staying below two degrees. ("Reasonable," in this case, means four chances in five, or somewhat worse odds than playing Russian roulette with a six-shooter.)

This idea of a global "carbon budget" emerged about a decade ago, as scientists began to calculate how much oil, coal and gas could still safely be burned. Since we've increased the Earth's temperature by 0.8 degrees so far, we're currently less than halfway to the target. But, in fact, computer models calculate that even if we stopped increasing CO2 now, the temperature would likely still rise another 0.8 degrees, as previously released carbon continues to overheat the atmosphere. That means we're already three-quarters of the way to the two-degree target.

  • 2795 Gigatons

This number is the scariest of all – one that, for the first time, meshes the political and scientific dimensions of our dilemma. It was highlighted last summer by the Carbon Tracker Initiative, a team of London financial analysts and environmentalists who published a report in an effort to educate investors about the possible risks that climate change poses to their stock portfolios. The number describes the amount of carbon already contained in the proven coal and oil and gas reserves of the fossil-fuel companies, and the countries (think Venezuela or Kuwait) that act like fossil-fuel companies. In short, it's the fossil fuel we're currently planning to burn. And the key point is that this new number – 2,795 – is higher than 565. Five times higher.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/global-warmings-terrifying-new-math-20120719#ixzz24PgfJZZV

.

Hottest years on record:

  1. 2005 ranks at number 1

  2. 2010 ranks at number 2

  3. 1998 ranks at number 3

  4. 2003 ranks at number 4

  5. 2002 ranks at number 5

  6. The average UK temperature for 2011 is 9.62C. The seven warmest UK years have all been in the past decade, with 2006 the hottest of all with an average of 9.73C.

  7. 2010 tied for Earth's warmest year on record

    • Last year tied with 2005 as the world's warmest on record, according to data released Wednesday by the National Climatic Data Center. Records began in 1880.

    • By Doyle Rice, USA TODAY

  8. Global Warming: 2011 Tied For The 10th Hottest Year On Record

  9. 2011 is UK's second warmest year on record - Met Office

  10. NOAA: 2010 Tied For Warmest Year on Record January 12, 2011

    • Combined global land and ocean annual surface temperatures for 2010 tied with 2005 as the warmest such period on record at 1.12 F (0.62 C) above the 20th century average. The range of confidence (to the 95 percent level) associated with the combined surface temperature is +/- 0.13 F (+/- 0.07 C).*

    • The global land surface temperatures for 2010 were tied for the second warmest on record at 1.73 F (0.96 C) above the 20th century average. The range of confidence associated with the land surface temperature is +/- 0.20 F (+/- 0.11 C).

    • Global ocean surface temperatures for 2010 tied with 2005 as the third warmest on record, at 0.88 F (0.49 C) above the 20th century average. The range of confidence associated with the ocean surface temperature is +/- 0.11 F (+/- 0.06 C).

    • more from NOAA

[and much of that temp data will be revised after 2012 is entered into the books] .

[-] -1 points by brudlo (-454) 1 year ago

still response about the racism of black mayor, ray nagin, no matter what you post , it doesnt change the fact that new orleans in below sea level and will ALWAYS flood.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13084) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Comments? beyond the obvious? that the entire city is below current sea level and therefore not likely viable in a globally warming environment? and that as such he did a true disservice to the people of New Orleans?

No, why? Why would I give a shit? IT's a local matter - it has little to no impact on the national debate, and he certainly isn't in DC making national policy.

I think your right wing stripes are beginning to run . . .

[-] -1 points by brudlo (-454) 1 year ago

go ahead, state the obvious, ray nagin ( balck democrat) is a racist. the msm never went after him on his statement. new orleans is below sea level, a 30 minute cloudburst floods the streets, i've been there and seen it for myself. it has nothing to do with" global warming "or "climate change". its below sea level. your bias is showing.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13084) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

that is in fact incorrect. I would not be screaming any such thing. I would not because to me it does not make sense.

when a dignitary such as the President tours a disaster area there can be significant disruption to the recovery effort.

I don't view that as a welcome development, regardless of who is President.

[-] 2 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Zen, I know this is an odd request but.... In the top comments panel, top right on the main forum page, I have a comment but it's a comment in mid argument and has no place getting that many votes, will you vote it down for me. That kinda stuff doesn't need 5 votes. Substance is the only thing that should be getting so many votes.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13084) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I'm not finding it - looks like someone has already helped you out on that

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

Thx anyway man.

[-] -2 points by brudlo (-454) 1 year ago

the msm attacked bush over katrina, the dem governor ( blanco) and new orleans mayor didnt do much of anything to help their people. in fact, the local police left town . nagin ( the mayor) never called for the city to evacuate,.............they had the school buses to do it but didnt bother to. obama could not a flyover to view the damage, disrupting nothing. after the BP oil spill, obama did nothing. in fact , he prevented help for the situation. 13 countires offered high tech help but obama said no. he could have suspended the jones act in order for these countries to help and then reinstated it. but all obama cares about is obama.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13084) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

facts are never comfortable for dems.

try a google search - search string: bush fema disorganization

The results look a bit like this:

Don't blame FEMA for disorganization...aim higher! divasblueoasis.blogspot.com/.../dont-blame-fema-for-disorganization... Sep 1, 2005 – Don't blame FEMA for disorganization...aim higher! I wish folks would ... Bush's complete whacking of the Federal budget. Most of the Federal ...

[DOC] THE FUTURE OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT training.fema.gov/.../Future%20of%20EM%20-... File Format: Microsoft Word - Quick View by G Haddow - Cited by 3 - Related articles The federal response under FEMA was disorganized and late. ... The Bush administration recognized this by including the words “building disaster-resistant ...

Michael D. Brown - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Brown Brown first had been appointed as General Counsel at FEMA. After the 9/11 terrorist attacks President Bush nominated Brown to become Deputy Director of ...

Criticism of government response to Hurricane Katrina - Wikipedia ... en.wikipedia.org/.../Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurrican... A FEMA official has claimed that Gov. Blanco failed to submit a request for help in a timely manner, saying that she did send President Bush a request asking for ...

Jimmy Carter: Discusses FEMA & Bush Administration - YouTube ► 1:54► 1:54

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXEQNhSPZF8Aug 30, 2008 - 2 min - Uploaded by alabamacatgirl Jimmy Carter: Discusses FEMA & Bush Administration ... discusses how he organized FEMA and how the ... More videos for bush fema disorganization »

.

and there is more, so much more

[-] 0 points by brudlo (-454) 1 year ago

wikipedia in not a credible source for anything. neither is carter. by the way do you remember ray nagin ( democrat) saying that when rebuilt, new orleans was going to be a " chocolate city". thats in your face racism. if a republican said anying about a city being a vanilla city, the press would have been all over it, yelling racism. no comment about the mayor NOT having the city evacuated?

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13084) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

why are you straining horseshit for gnats . . . .

[-] -2 points by brudlo (-454) 1 year ago

facts are never comfortable for dems.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

like presidents?

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[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

That would appear to be exactly the case.

Now, all that is really needed, is for that reality to be exposed in the military and police force, and drummed into their heads repeatedly.

I'm pretty sure that the three-letter orgs know already. If they don't, I'd be surprised.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13084) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I think the alphabet soup bureaucracy is blinded by the fact of partisanship within its own ranks.

If they weren't, some of them bankers would start having car accidents, while others were assured that it was time to stop gambling.

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

It's a great con, isn't it?

That, and the old same-sex marriage, and women's rights over their own bodies.

Been the same "debates" for every election for how long now?

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13084) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Is it a con?

The fuckers have Akin - in Congress, running for the Senate - to call it a con is to drastically overestimate the qualifications for office of many in the repelican party.

  • "Man-made global warming is the greatest hoax ever perpetuated on the American people." ~Senator Inhofe (R-Oklahoma), Chair, Senate Committee on Environment

This is no con, man. This is the real shit. These people are insane.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I watched Sen. Bernie Sanders tearing into Sen. Inhofe just a little while ago on the Climate Change issue.

It's actually incorrect now to call it GW, because in all likelihood, the real danger will come from intense high pressure systems like those proposed in the movie; The Day After Tomorrow. The reason why they find Mammoths with food still in their mouths, frozen solid.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13084) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I don't think you will find anyone with enough information on how the weather system works to produce such an effect with any authority.

As of right now, and most likely for the next goddamned millennium*

Global Warming does seem to accurately describe what is occurring, and what will continue to occur, until carbon emissions cease and balance is restored - regardless of instances of natural variability or climate change that take place

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Granted, but the deniers (Gawd bless there cockle-hard hearts) point to some of the coldest winters on record, mostly in the midwest, as well as in Russia, China, and the north of Japan.

The current argument in Australian scientific circles are all discussing climate change, so if you must stick to your guns with AGW, then I will know what you are saying, but will you know what we are talking about with CC?

And I already know it's a kind of corn chips, okay? Heard that one. LOL

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13084) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I understand perfectly well

  • Global Warming
    • Climate change

Global Warming is producing climate change

It's a fairly simple concept to grasp

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

It's what I would call "grasping at straws" but you know how pedantic and puss-like these deniers can get, yeah?

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[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

So there were a few success stories in the gambling process?

That's a relief, actually.

The last repub prez had a terrible record of company ownership.

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 1 year ago

I believe Dominos and Sealys too.

I find it hard to believe that anyone, Republican, Democrat or otherwise, actually believes that Romney wanted companies they bought to fail. I have no doubt he was all about personal gain, but the biggest personal gain was made by growing companies, not bankrupting them.

[-] -2 points by gnomunny (5804) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

I believe it's called flipping. Same concept as when you flip real estate. Sure, you can make more in the long run renting a property out, but people that flip properties aren't in it for the long haul. "A fast nickle is better than a slow dime" as the old saying goes.

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 1 year ago

But in order to flip and make a profit, you typically have to improve the home. You don't leverage the home and then let the bank foreclose on it if you are trying to flip it.

Debt is not necessarily a bad thing. A large amount of debt allowed me to go to dental school, buy a home and then buy a practice. Without debt, I would not have been able to do any of it. Things were certainly very risky when I had so much debt and I carried a lot more life and disability insurance than a normal person my age, but it also held the possibility of a large return. You can't do that with a country though because the consequences of too much debt are so much more catastrophic to the population as a whole than individual personal and corporate debts.

The US should carry some debt. There is probably an optimal level to provide growth with a reasonable assumption of risk and I don't pretend to know what that level is. I just feel like we are probably above it.

[-] -2 points by gnomunny (5804) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Often, when flipping real estate, they'll put the minimum amount possible into the property. You can do wonders with a few hundred dollars worth of paint. You have to pick those properties very carefully to actually earn any money, it's not as easy as it sounds. Often, they'll look for houses that have tax problems and need only minor fixing up to flip them. I realize the details are different than what some think Romney was doing, but the concept of the fast nickle over the slow dime is valid. A lot of people don't want to be tied to the day-to-day of a business, they just want to make a quick profit. It's kind of like those individuals that are better at starting a business than running one, a concept I can relate to (on any project, I'm a great starter but a terrible finisher). Those guys will start a biz, get it running well, then turn it over at a profit. I'm not sure that's what Romney was doing of course, but I can see how the concept might apply.

Agree completely that in many cases debt can be a good thing. A lot of things couldn't get done without it.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Yes, debt is how the system functions.

Unfortunately, when you de-regulate an industry, and expect them to self-regulate, the greed inherent in human nature can result in the LIBOR "scandal" which hasn't really been in the news as much as it should be.

[-] -2 points by gnomunny (5804) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

True. Greed is pretty much the underlying cause of most if not all our modern day problems.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Money becomes a game, when you have too much of it.

This is left-field, but I've read how the whole women's movement was a social experiment started by one of the wealthiest families on the planet.

[-] -2 points by gnomunny (5804) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

That's a hell of a coincidence. Less than two weeks ago I read an article on line titled "How the Rockefellers re-engineered women." What are the odds of that?

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Yeah, what's the odds?

If I was religious, I'd say that the devil makes work for idle hands.

Imagine the scene. Sitting around getting waited on hand and foot, imagining how you could screw up the family unit, and put most men in the doghouse.

Bet they got some laughs out of that one.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13084) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Both of these stories sound like bullshit - bullshit with a purpose. Of course I haven't read either.

But there is a pocket of thinking that insists all of the problems associated with society are the result of a growing matriarchy - it's just craziness, but its out there.

I can't get a poem published - but crazy fuckers with college degrees can poison the public discourse with all sorts of absolute bullfuckinghshit

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I wouldn't put it past them.

In fact, there's pretty much nothing these greedy pricks do, that would surprise me.

I'm looking forward to the day when we all have to find out if we can make it on our own.

I've been in training for the day. Anyone else been training?

[-] -2 points by gnomunny (5804) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Not to mention the massive untapped revenue generated by creating a second breadwinner in the house. Yah, now we can buy that second car! And remember when girls that smoked were viewed as the 'bad girls?' We can't have that. Gotta turn women into heavy smokers as well. Need that revenue to move into foreign markets that have no age restrictions. Gotta get them into all those markets that used to be traditionally male-dominated, like sports enthusiasts. Yep, I believe it's very possible it was a social experiment designed to break up the family unit and turn women into consumers rather than 'homemakers.' At any rate, it's certainly turned out that way, to the great benefit of the elite.

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

There's been a covert movement to destablise the family unit for quite some time now in Australia. Probably for the same reasons you mention above.

More bums in more housing. More chickens in more pots. Make sure that women think they are being hard done by, even when they aren't.

Advertising since the seventies has been pretty much ridiculing men, and taking away their dignity as breadwinners and protectors. It's no surprise to me that friends I've know all my life are opting out of society, and heading for their "caves" again.

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[-] -1 points by Lucky1 (-125) from Wray, CO 1 year ago

So the national debt is no big deal? Please to explain.

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

The last admin can't account for 2.3 trillion dissappeared in the Pentagon's budget. Did you have a point to make?

[-] -1 points by Lucky1 (-125) from Wray, CO 1 year ago

You can't answer the question. 2.3 trillion is not 15 trillion. I don't care about that retard Bush. I'm asking you about your master the retard Obama.

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I don't need to answer that question. The defecit was already there when Obama won the seat. I bet he regretted it from day one.

I'm in Australia. I vote independent, which you don't seem to have the ability to do in the US of A. Poor you.

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[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Dole and Kerry feel sorry for Romney, being paraded out there with no shot of winning.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

he still have money when it's over

[+] -4 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

and after analysis they found Romney's "budget plan" would add 2.6 trillion to the debt - FACT

Romney talking about fixing the debt is as hilarious as Obama talking about peace and civil liberties.

And as funny as someone voting for someone they don't like because they really don't like the other guy... something "both" parties are doing. What a world what a world. Never mind the other people on the ballot. They can't win they say. You have to vote this way they say.

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Maybe it's true about crashing the economy?

There seems to be no real effort to reduce the debt, from either camp.

[+] -4 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

I think it's more about crashing the government. Allows private interests to take over. Crashing the economy as well.... allows them to buy shit cheaper or pocket cash on the downfall while the workers lose their jobs. This creates an employer's market. Where they have all the power and exploit the desperate.

If the majority of people were wiser and didn't get blinded by propaganda in the primaries... i think our government could not only be functional but more beneficial for society. Voting is a huge power. That's why they spend billions to swindle people into voting for the candidates they fund and push the real candidates out of the race.

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

It's pretty clear the election process is a sham.

Maybe you're onto it there, Trevor.