Forum Post: I want to thank Ben Bernanke.
Posted 11 years ago on Sept. 17, 2012, 12:21 p.m. EST by frogmanofborneo
(602)
from New York, NY
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
First I regret that due to health issues I cannot be at September 17. My heart and thoughts and hopes are with you all. Be safe and give them hell.
Now to the point: I was talking with my wife about how we might or might not be able to pay our debts. It occurred to us that Ben Bernanke has taken this on for us. Let me explain:
Bernanke has decided to gift $40 Billions per month to the banks we "owe" money to. Well, who is ultimately going to pay for this gift? In their dreams the one percent suppose that the 99 percent will. Do you know how much $40 billion dollars is?
http://www.pagetutor.com/trillion/index.html
Well if you divide 40 billion by three hundred million citizens and residents of the United States you get $133.00. So, Bernanke is gifting the banks $133 for each man, woman and child who resides in this country. For my household that's 133 x 4 = 532. Five hundred and thirty-two bucks a month indefinitely into the future from me, my wife and our two kids until who knows when? And one day we get to pay it back? I don't think this is fair or moral even if they can twist things around to make it "legal." IMHO Bernanke is paying off our unsecured credit cards and student debt certainly in any moral or ethical sense. Thanks, Ben. We needed that.
as posted here, http://occupywallst.org/forum/ben-willard/ - related
WOW!!! .... come on guy's ..... don't you all understand what is happening ?
We've had two entirely different things take place that affects our economy.... one... being the organized criminal ripoff orchestrated by much of wallst...(which is a bad thing for everyone) ....
and the other being the result of the 3rd world industrialization that has taken place .... (which is currently a bad thing for our economy.... but a Great thing for the 3rd world economies) ....
they are two isolated & completely different problems....
as.... we add more & more people (worldwide) into the monetary game... we HAVE to ... provide them with some sort of capital (money)... so they can be part of the game.... no ?
the greedy fucking ass extreme right ... are fighting this... because they think that that money will come from their greedy pockets ....
the dumb ass extreme left ... are fighting it ... because they are too scared to make a stand ...
it is the moderates ... the majority btw... that see the reality .... and believe it or not ... Obama ... Is a moderate .... and understands what's happening ....
while the do nothing congress has done nothing.... the Administration has been busy....the Fed has been completely revamped.... the Treasury & SEC.... has been challenged (and ordered) to do their fucking job... (control the banks & wallst) ... (I'm not sure that the SEC is doing it yet???).... anyway.... as we add more people into the game.... We HAVE to .... add more money into the game...
we can do that by taking money from the rich... or we can print more.... no other choices....
QE3 (for the middle class)... IS a good move... but... it is not a final answer.... regardless of how much money we put into the system ....We STILL have the problem of creating enough jobs ... so everyone can play ....
at some point in the next 50 years ... we WILL have to socialize more & more of the economy.... or learn to share.....
a Social Reserve Bank ... will immediately help expand economic opportunities.... BUT that is just a beginning....
we NEED to expand & change what is considered wealth...
Paul Krugman... is a very sharp guy... btw...
Look if the Fed issued monthly checks for $133 to each and every person in this country until the economy was well into a boom you wouldn't her a peep of complaint out of me.
aside from the obvious welfare for WallSt that QE really is, I'll toss in some recent examples, QE1, QE2, Operation Twist, are all handouts to the financial institutions. So maybe you can expand on how a handout to WallSt helps the middle class? I'm just curious.
the handouts (bailouts) were preformed to stop the total collapse of the world-wide economies.... w/o (at the time) any concern over who did what.... hopefully ....if Justice Dept... does their job.... we might get justice... maybe that is something we should be pushing for... no ?
not All the banks were thieves... just the probably the majority...
many believe ... as I do.... If we did not not stop the collapse... there would be no economy ... no food... no internet... etc...
You're generalizing. The defense of a jobs bill or other stimulus that goes toward direct hiring or individual financial intervention such as writing down the principle on upside down mortgages, can not be used in this context. The Fed printing has a very defined roll, it is supporting WallSt and it cannot be shown to have done or to be capable of doing otherwise. I am for a jobs bill, I am not for WallSt welfare.
Gnat, I'm All for any jobs bill's.... but I'm more for job creation through free-enterprise than through.... subsidization ... imo... we need to fix the economy.... and many jobs will be created on their own.... look at the countless new inventions & products... sitting on the shelves at most of our universities... all due to lack of funding.... we need to get the investors investing again.... or... screw them entirely and print our own currency
Right, exactly. QE is the Fed giving money to WallSt that adds to the national debt. QE is waaayyy worse than subsidies. QE does not go into the hands of employers, or consumers.
There are also, no lack of investors. Have you seen the numbers on WallSt lately? There is more than enough money to go toward utilizing new tech. What is missing is demand.
Demand will not increase, even according to Bernanke, through the Fed's actions. Bernanke himself has made that abundantly clear every time he talks to congress.
quote>>>| QE is the Fed giving money to WallSt that adds to the national debt.
??? how is the Fed "giving" money to anyone ... by buying ???
The Fed is buying government bonds. What is a government bond?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_bond
Anyone who thinks QE3, or any form of "easing" is a good thing should have their head examined...
ok... hchc.... how are things working for you now ?... how bout...how are things working for America now ?...
maybe doing nothing will work... no?
Doing nothing is not a solution, obviously.
The problems are in the tax/trade/monetary and foreign policies.
Printing more money simply delays the inevitable. Its the easy way out, which is why its the only thing they have done the last 3 years.
I would much rather go through some pain now, knowing that the next generation will have it better, not worse.
hc, you can't add 50% more players to a monopoly game ... w/o giving the new players some cash to start with.... where will that cash come from ?.... the existing players ... or the bank ?
What we need to do is clean house and recover economically before we can even think about helping the rest of the world. All this will do is push more americans into poverty and then it will be impossible to help anyone.
China has bought more gold the past year than the entire ECB has in holdings. They are getting ready to offer a new reserve currency.
They have already signed a deal with the Russians and Japanese that goes against Bretton Woods.
This watering down of our money is the main reason for what is going on. They turned housing into a bubble. They have flooded the campuses with cheap money.
It is not our job to create funny money for the rest of the globe. This is not how a healthy currency operates.
We should be happy the rest of the West is just as sucked into this race to the bottom. Because if any of them werent, it would leave us in the dust.
I don't know HC, ... I'm more concerned about the global economy... than America's position is the picture... I'm quite confident America can survive & prosper
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Yeah Ben is buying up moribund mortgages that are worth nada. I rather he send the checks directly to each and every one of us and we'll get the economy running in due course.
hmmm.... good question ZD, about the mortgage-backed securities ... I did hear about that conflict... have to look into it ...
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QE3? Quantitative Extraction # 3.
hmmm.... I guess I mis-understood,,, an npr broadcast.... yes it appears that qe3 is based solely on mortgage-backed securities ...
http://money.cnn.com/video/news/2012/09/13/n-bernanke-fed-qe3-90-secs.cnnmoney/
that's a little disturbing to me...
get a mortgage ?
yeah.... the Fed is comprised of a group of international banks....
they (the banks) are agreeing to buy $40 Billions per month of US bonds .... ( I also heard maybe even $80 B )
so the Treasury can print more money .... w/o borrowing it... it IS to the Best interest of the banks to stimulate the economy....especially small business ... else they have little business themselves ....
if this venture fails.... it is the banks that will feel the burden ... as much as the people because the bonds will become worthless... make sense ?
There's a very funny - and very accurate animated film about how the Federal Reserve and the US/global banking system works. It's called "The American Dream" and it's online at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGk5ioEXlIM. It was made by a buncha libertarians - but the facts are accurate
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What a foolish way to restore the heath of our economy. Draining blood from the arms and legs, and injecting it back into the head of our economic body. The head is healthy, but the legs and arms, that support and propel the body forward and enable it to climb over any obstacle, grow weaker.
But, do you really want the Fed (and its derivatives) to be the head of our economic body?
I just want the great pools of blood to return their excess to the rest of the body where it's most needed. It doesn't matter who accomplishes this task as long as it's done properly.
to me that's like asking the mafioso to give it back. Imho, it ain't gonna happen. With that, I'd argue it does matter who accomplishes the task.
I didn't imply that it would ever be given back by the Fed. I don't think they could. A much higher tax rate on income, property, inheritance, and capital gains imposed by Congress is one way to return that pool of money.
We do have a couple other options that the people can take directly. Increase our wages by collective bargaining, and decrease our costs by not supporting the very corporations who extract our wealth at every opportunity.
Penalizing the 1% for their confiscation by taxing them would work but they have Congress in their pockets. It'd have to be a ground swell from the populace to get it passed. And "it", the legislation, would have to be written by the populace and then sponsored, passed by Congress and signed into law. With that, there'd be a fighting chance. And instead of putting the taxes collected into the Treasury's coffers, I say put it in all our pockets on a per capita basis. All in all, the Courts would shoot the brains out of it.
The first corporation that I'd target by withdrawing my support for it is the Federal Reserve followed by the major Banks. In their place, we'd all have to have money, real money that couldn't be debased or created by the typing of keys on a keyboard. Hmmm.
With that, here's another piece of legislation. It'd have to be written by the populace, sponsored, passed by Congress and signed by the President. The Federal Reserve, member banks, commercial banks, their subsidiaries, the US Treasury, and the US's stake in holdings at the IMF are required to auction all their gold holdings and certificates to it. These are the sellers. Only US citizens can participate in the auction. No employee or ex employee of any of the sellers' organizations can participate. No elected or appointed official in any jurisdiction at any level of government is allowed to participate. No US citizen who earns a gross annual income of $600,000 or more is allowed to participate. These are the buyers. No bid can be higher than $38 per ounce. No citizen can buy more than 1,000 ounces. The auction period is one year. For a period of seventeen (17) years after the conclusion of the auction, no member of any seller's organization may buy gold. These are the rules. Sound ridiculous? It is but not in comparison to what the 1% and their ilk have put us through. With that, there'd be a fighting chance to get real money into the economy.
(Short of that, I'd fight alongside anyone who stands to repeal legal tender laws followed by a repeal of the 17th Amendment followed by legislation outlawing the treatment of a corporation as if corporation were a citizen. Just with that short list, it'd be a busy year. But with enough coalition building, it'd be a highly productive year.)
I'm looking just far enough ahead to waking up the people so that they take back full control of our government. That first step will be difficult enough. If we are unable to take it, all else will be moot.
Yep. I am with you.
Did you happen to take part in any of the anniversary celebrations the last few days?
Yep but only vicariously by keeping in touch online and with my kids. Two of them were in NYC yesterday and tried to "tour" JPM but said that a lot of their morning was being herded by nypd. They got split up. One spent some eventful time in Zuccotti. Don't have details. The other was jawing with some 'broker types', got over to Trinity Church and walked around it "50 times". Kinda doubt that because he's the lazier of the two. For example later, he met up with his buddies in a bar around 2:00 in the afternoon. Just like him to putz. But he did say that he made a detour first, got as close as he could to the Fed Reserve and flipped the bird, in my stead. Me, I was in Rockfort IL on biz.
How 'bout you? Were you able to join in the festivities?
I'm in Socal, a couple of hours east of LA. We had the usual street protest Friday, and an added one Saturday in a nearby city. I don't care what the media says about Occupy dying. The response is just as positive as it was last January when I joined, maybe even stronger.
Excellent. Yep. I think so too. It's just as positive.
endthefed
Actually, the 1% will pay most of this. The 99% doesn't have the resources......which is why we are protesting. We want to be able to pay this back.
Dude, this is the 1%.
I thought the money should be placed at the base of the economy aswell
in the peoples hands
Agreed Matt.
MLH, the people should take back their right to make money. I am not saying to counterfeit it like the banksters but make it. During the Depression, my Grandfather's Dad used tobacco as money in their rural community. Can't create that out of thin air.
If you calculate that based on each working person in America, roughly 150 million people, then that figure is actually double or about $266 a month, $3192 a year.
Looks like we all better ask for a raise to cover our loss.
That's one way to look at it but it does come down to $133 per month per person until an economic boom is well under way.
The Fed has admitted to doing this to prevent deflation, which is high level price fixing, which is a felony.