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Forum Post: I need your help. QUICK QUESTION: What are the 2 or 3 best arguments against school privatization / charter schools?

Posted 1 year ago on Feb. 13, 2013, 6:55 p.m. EST by therising (6643)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Is your community giving up on having a quality public education system and resorting to the charter school / privatization of schools model?

QUESTION: What are the 2 or 3 best arguments against school privatization / charter schools? Examples where it's failed the kids and the communities? Major issues that general public could wrap their head around that would stop them from taking this plunge?

Are non-profit charter schools any better than for-profit ones?

108 Comments

108 Comments


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[-] 9 points by beautifulworld (20453) 1 year ago

Our education system is not failing because it is not private. Our education system is failing because of the culture that has driven our society to not care about education. The culture of materialism and consumerism generated by greed for profit in our capitalist system. If we cannot protect our children from this and bring greed right to their doorstep on a daily basis where will we end up? Is nothing sacred? Is everything about the almighty dollar?

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Very well said. Cheers!!!

[-] 2 points by JPB950 (2254) 1 year ago

The responsibility falls on three people. Education requires the active positive participation and support from parent, teacher and student. You will always get good results when all three believe education as important, usually get good results when two of them believe. If it's only one of them then good results are elusive.

Greed, capitalism, materialism, budget cuts, a hundred other factors may enter into things in some minor way, but they are simply an excuse for failure and shifting blame. If those critical three people see education as valuable the student will learn.

The only thing that makes the private school or charter school look successful is that it usually combines motivated parents with motivated teachers, increasing your chances for success with students. The public schools in turn look worse as you skim off the better students and supportive parents.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20453) 1 year ago

I don't disagree with what you say, but the big overarching problem in America's education system as a whole is that Americans don't value education. How to we change our society so that learning and knowledge become more important than consumerism?

[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 1 year ago

Many still value it. That's why private schools show success, then pull in kids from the homes that value education.

I don't think the main reason for failing schools is consumerism however. I believe social factors are a major cause of failure. If I were to try to fix anything I'd try working on reestablishing the two parent household.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

we have all consented to use the money and ownership system

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20453) 1 year ago

I don't remember consenting to that ever. It's more like forced into it.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

it was here when we got here

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Can you legislate interest in education?

I dont think so. The only thing that brings a focus back to education is putting it back in the hands of the people, which means getting DC the hell out of it.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20453) 1 year ago

And, put corporations into it? That's not the answer!

[-] 3 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

I would never put the solution into the hands of the corporations. Put it in the people. Let them decide how they want to tax for it, how they want to create, what should be the focuses of each grades, what kinds of tech skills should be taught, etc.

That would bring an incredible diversity to the nation. Some schools would be focused more on the arts, some would be more on tech, some more on math (isnt that kind of tech too?).

As it is right now, we have a very bland system that is being further streamlined every year.

The big question is - would people be willing to invest the time to make it work. Self governance isnt a handout.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20453) 1 year ago

I like your ideas. If only we can change our society so that people would strive for more than just material success we might have a really fine education system.....

[-] -2 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 1 year ago

No matter what 'education system' you're talking about, If it is our culture, then it doesn't matter where the kids attend school does it? Except that parents who teach their kids a different culture have the ability to create and run a school (charter) where the culture seen and experienced at school matches the culture they get at home and thus the kids have a greater chance of NOT continuing the cycle.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20453) 1 year ago

I disagree. Why on earth would you want to only change the culture of education for the kids whose parents are already on to this? Public school reaches all children and the change needs to take place there. Elitism will get us nowhere.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20453) 1 year ago

Yep, we need an overhaul. It's embarrassing.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

It's not one thing. It's everything.

The case of the 15yr old, is the one I hoped you'd noticed.

At least in my initial searching I couldn't find what type of facility Martin De Porres is. Sounds Christian, as he is among the Saints.

I've always wondered what will happen to those special needs children, when the cherry picking is done?

No one anywhere seems to be saying anything.

I hope it's not in places like this.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20453) 1 year ago

Shooz, in a society that cares only about profits, that reveres wealth over all else, the elderly and children are at the greatest risk, and among those groups, the poor and disabled are at the absolute greatest risk. Very sad, indeed.

[-] -1 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 1 year ago

No. What I'm saying is that if you are correct, that our public education system is failing because society has been driven to not care about education, then that society will continue to provide failing education unless you make them care about education. PUBLIC charter schools allows parents who DO care about education to create a place for ALL the children in a given community to become educated in a manner that changes that paradigm. Charter schools are elite or private.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20453) 1 year ago

Charter schools are elitist because they can only accept a few students and they leave out the kids who need the most help, the kids whose parents are not savvy.

[-] -1 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 1 year ago

Says who? The charter school in my neighborhood accepts any kid whose parents want them in it. Half the kids in our neighborhood attend the charter school, and half attend the public school. And there isn't anything elitist about either group of kids, they all hang out together.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20453) 1 year ago

The key words "any kid whose parents want them in it." As soon as you have that you take away the equality that all children should have. Parents often don't know what the hell they are doing and public schools offer equality and protection, or at least they should.

[-] -1 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 1 year ago

You cannot claim that the public schools you just accused of providing a failing education are now bastions of equality and protection.

Charter schools are public schools. If parents often don't know what the hell they are doing-they're just as likely to put their kid in a regular failing public school as they are a failing charter school.

The fact that some parents DO know what the hell is going on and DO make education choices for their kids based upon what is best for their child's success means that being a parent that doesn't know what the hell is going on "takes away the equality that all children should have" without the influence of the outside world at all.

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (20453) 1 year ago

The public education system is a failure in this country, true. But, if it were to succeed every single child would have an equal chance despite his/her parents' misgivings. Charter schools are elitist and actually make things worse for the children who don't have advocates.

[-] -1 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 1 year ago

So let's let ALL kids continue to attend a failing regular public system until we turn it around (and what if we never do?) so that every child gets an equally inferior education!

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20453) 1 year ago

That is not what I am saying at all, but charter schools are not the answer because they don't add to the quality of education in the public schools, which is what our goal should be, rather, they detract from it.

[-] 2 points by gsw (2687) 1 year ago

...and the high school drop-out rate is down to 8.1%.  A full 70% of graduating seniors are enrolled in two and four year colleges the following fall

The 2009 PISA (Program for International Student Assessment) science reading scores of 15 year old American students averaged 500.  Our student averages in this category trail ONLY SIX other countries of the 65 countries in PISA : Korea, Finland, Canada, New Zealand, Japan and Australia- hardly the dismal picture of failure that the doomsday- sayers have recently  promoted. 

http://www2.css.edu/app/depts/his/historyjournal/index.cfm?cat=6&art=32

We give them to much ability to think, they may want to change the world.

We should look at what the top tier countries are doing successfully, maybe emulate their ideas. Finland has way more recess, arts, kids don't start school till seven, fewer tests too.

We should be stronger in math, tech, sience, and arts. Schools need better curriculum and books, in math, science social studies.poor kids need twice as much resources, early learning opportunities for all.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (20453) 1 year ago

We should make kids love school!!

"The Revolution is Love" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRtc-k6dhgs

[-] 1 points by freakzilla (-161) from Detroit, MI 1 year ago

It would except for this:

President Barack Obama says the nation’s charter schools “serve as incubators of innovation in neighborhoods across our country,” and issued a proclamation calling this “National Charter Schools Week.”...

http://www.mlive.com/education/index.ssf/2012/05/president_obama_calls_charter.html

[-] 2 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

Good luck to all our young people in school. They're gonna need it.

[-] -1 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 1 year ago

I'm sorry. Spin is spin. No matter what side it comes from. I am capable of reading all the material available and reconciling what I believe the truth to be. Sadly, you might not be.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Yes, I know.

I'm pointing out just how hard you're spinning.

Each one of those stories are factual and you spun"right" around them, with the flair of a FLAKESnews Faux Fact Flinger. ( registered trade mark).

Proving once again just how nuts conse(R)vatives are.

Now that I have your attention, let's get back on topic.

So, as a conse(R)vative, you don't ask yourself what happened to all that lotto money that was supposed to save the schools?

No, no. Look! Over there! A LIBERAL!!!

You don't ask yourself the effects of a cont(R)oversy over FORCING teachers in ce(R)tain school districts to teach creationism.

No, no. Look! Over there!! a Moooslim!!

You don't ask yourself, what might have been the affect on public school systems of all that ALEC legislation that cut taxes to them for some 3 decades. (were you even born yet when they began doing that?).

No, no. Look! Over there a BOOB on TV!!! That must be outlawed!!! It's those damn liberals!

And so you continue the same, straight out of the box arguments against public education.

Will you bitch about the union next?

[-] -2 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 1 year ago

Wow. Not only are your assumptions about me completely wrong, they are bigoted and offensive. But I realize you don't have the capacity to even begin to imagine that someone who doesn't agree with you on everything might NOT be the cartoon character extremist from the right that seems to be the only other type of person you feel exists.

First of all, school districts are state run and the policies in place in individual school districts most often reflects the culture of the surrounding people who live there. If the voters in those places don't want creationism taught in schools, they need to stand up and voice that.

2nd I am unaware of anywhere in the US where teachers are FORCED to teach creationism. I know of two states in which creationism is offered as an elective class. I've heard of states that want to offer courses in Islam etc. I have seen no studies that reveal any "effects" from either one.

I wouldn't know where the lotto money you refer to went. Do you? My state doesn't offer a lottery.

As far as ALEC goes, when you start screaming and protesting progressives forming organizations that influence and lobby legislation, you let me know. Until then, anything you say will just be hypocritical.

There's no reason to even discuss anything with you because your arguments are all straight out of the box bitch fests and progressive talking points. You have a closed mind.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Transference.

I don't accept it. I've read your comments.

You made no point past that.

[-] -2 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 1 year ago

I don't care what you accept or don't accept.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Aww. That's cute.

Just like a little kid.

Will you hold your breath and turn blue now?

PS: No lotto?

Which one of the welfare states are you in then?

[-] 0 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 1 year ago

Nope. Just telling you how it is.

Do you mean the states that have the highest number of welfare recipients? Seems like a lot of those states have lotteries. I don't live in one of them either way.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Well then YOU are an admitted liar.

Nice to know.

I had my suspicions anyway.

[-] 0 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 1 year ago

Please indicate my lie.

On the last chart I looked at, the state I live in falls into the lowest 10 states for welfare recipients per capita, and we do not have a lottery.

You calling me a liar, is thus a lie, making you the liar whether you admit it or not.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

It's not about the propaganda.

It's pointless to pick it apart. It's propaganda.

It's you.

You said you don't care.

That's a blatant lie.

The kind propagandists use all the time.

If you didn't, you wouldn't be here.

So yepperz. Yer a liar.

[-] -1 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 1 year ago

I said I don't care what YOU accept or don't. I know what I know. I know a fact from an opinion. YOU are not the whole of this movement nor this forum, thus caring whether you accept what I say to be true or not doesn't really matter at all to the bigger picture.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Oh, so now it's personal.

IC.

This movement likes public schools.

You don't.

This movement supports teachers unions.

You don't.

This movement doesn't like ALEC.

You do.

So WTF are you doing here then?

If you don't care?

You've offered nothing but negativity towards all those things that OWS does believe in and support.

You see, I care what you think and I don't like that what you think is nowhere near anything that OWS supports.

So, I'm trying to get you to come around to a proper way of looking at the situation.

[-] 7 points by MsStacy (1035) 1 year ago

A man that makes blueberry muffins was asked by a teacher. "What do you do if the farmer sends you a lot of rotten blueberries?" "I send them back" the baker replied. The teacher nodded and said, "You have that luxury, we don't send any of our blueberries back."

Charter schools and private schools take the good blueberries. There isn't a cause and effect relationship there. It won't make a better student out of your child unless you are already a pro-education parent of a good student. They draw off the better students and better parents leaving the more difficult students behind.

Their record is an illusion. If you totally privatize, take in all the blueberries, you won't find your getting any better results then the public schools.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Re. Charter Schools :

http://occupywallst.org/forum/search/?q=charter+schools ;

http://occupywallst.org/forum/charter-school-studies-that-have-been-under-report/ ;

'Noam Chomsky re. Public Education' - http://www.nationofchange.org/assault-public-education-1333634007 ;

"Public Education Under Massive Corporate Assault — What's Next?" by Noam Chomsky' - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q97tFyqHVLs &

'Why the United States Is Destroying Its Education System - by Chris Hedges' - http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/why_the_united_states_is_destroying_her_education_system_20110410/

Good luck in all your doings 'tr'.

ipsa scientia potestas est ...

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I truly appreciate the good luck wishes. I really do. I need em. This is turning into a David and Goliath battle.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

"Noam Chomsky - 'Public Education and The Common Good'" (Video) :

"Chomsky gives to us an eloquent historical, present and future perspectives as to the public educational system in the US how he believes it has been used not for the common good, but rather for the special interests of those who have power and money and want to perpetuate a docile non-critical thinking population. Society, or "the common good", as Chomsky called it, encourages people to focus on themselves and their own success. Programs such as public education and Social Security, which are now under attack, are based on a different perception. "They are based on the perception that we should care about other people....That's a dangerous perception. It means you should be a human being and not a pathological creature,"

It came to me as an afterthought & I can't recommend this enough. Solidarity 'tr' in all your doings. ~*~

fiat lux ...

[-] 2 points by WSmith (2022) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

What is?

[-] 2 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

Then go with what happens in the story of David and Goliath, I do not remember the details of story though I feel there is something in it that give you some direction with how to proceed for most effect toward your purpose. Good to hear from you. We have some charter type schools in Oregon though I was not aware of them being same as privatized because they seem to be helpful for some students. I will look at some of these links and add input after.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

You always come through on the great info. You're amazing. Thanks shadz. :)

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Thanx M8 :-) & also see : http://www.truth-out.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8&q=Charter+schools !

repetitio est mater studiorum ...

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Thank you shadz. I'm swinging for the fences out here in the heartland of America where Americans are giving up and giving in to corporate takeover of schools. I'm pushing back.

Hey - what about "nonprofit" charter schools? Are they any better?

[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Nope. Non profit still means profit.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Sorry 'tr' but I'm still reeling after just reading : http://occupywallst.org/forum/kill-anything-that-moves/ and so am at the limit of my ability to be useful here. I wish you sincere good luck in your endeavours and hope that good education can avert future horrors like those alluded to in the link attached herein.

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 4 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

In order for Charter schools to turn a profit--and make no mistake-they do-they will exclude those children with disabilities. It costs more money and quality teachers. Look here

There is a huge accountability factor. The charters are not held to the same standards as public schools.
One of the things that I would look for are real estate scandals. The second item that I would look for is that they talk about parental control but there isn't any. I believe that you have that information in the scandal link and it is documented with one school specific. Statistic wise they score either worse or the same as public education.

[-] 2 points by imagine40 (383) 1 year ago

They also pick and choose the best students frequently and yet still do not show any appreciable improvement over the public schools (where they get those "best of" students)

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Yep.

[-] 2 points by imagine40 (383) 1 year ago

Koch/Libe(R)tarian plan to bust powerful teachers union, that's all.

http://modeducation.blogspot.com/2012/01/school-choice-or-just-another-koch-bros.html

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

How much money does your state spend a year on high stakes testing?

[-] 2 points by imagine40 (383) 1 year ago

Good question. I'm in NY so we are probably one of the highest, This article appears to claim up to $1B. but I haven't double checked.

http://www.theknightnews.com/2012/02/28/professor-boycotts-nys-standardized-exam/

[-] 4 points by ericweiss (575) 1 year ago

three quick answers- studies show charter schools to not out-perform public schools every dollar that goes into for-profit schools is not going into education koch wants to privatize schools

[-] 4 points by elf3 (2402) 1 year ago

Worst:

    • Business will offer itself cheaply making sacrifices to offer a great product to establish itself
    • Once Public Schools Close, Business will do what it always once it drives away the competition, and that is - raise prices and offer a shit product
    • enough said (well one more thing) they will plunder the tax payers and elected officials and CEO's will be rolling around on the bed together on the money as each new generation pays the price of a dumbed down populous.

sorry 4. - Built in corporate agendas and advertising right into the education system ...sounds lovely

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Great list. Thank you.

[-] 2 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

The primary motivator for capitalist corporations is to increase profits continuously, and there is no motivation to do anything else. Regardless of quality of education and what is good and right, corporations don't give a fuck about anything but impressing shareholders.

[-] 2 points by WSmith (2022) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Profit over education motive.

Profit motive.

Greed.

Agenda.

Education motive.

Egalitarianism.

Kids.

Posterity.

[-] 1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

For decades I'veread that charter school/education privatization is just the Libertarian/Koch bros plan to bust Dem leaning teachers union.

Isn't that enough to dismiss the whole scam.?

http://www.southernstudies.org/2012/09/preaching-koch-brothers-gospel-on-public-education.html

http://www.indyweek.com/indyweek/charter-schools-dont-necessarily-provide-a-better-education/Content?oid=2748975

http://www.appalledbylepage.com/2012/09/05/privatizing_maine_schools/

Now if you are interested in improving education and better preparing our children for life, perhaps this approach might appeal to you.

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/education/report/2013/02/07/52071/investing-in-our-children/

Please read these valuable articles and let me know if it's helpful and what you think.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

privatization of schools leaves out the poor.

[-] 0 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Libraries are free.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

They don't come with teachers.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

not if the "privatize schools" people had their way.

the poor deserve teachers just like the rich do.

[-] -3 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

In a library, the only teacher is yourself. Education isn't an entitlement, you have to work at it.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

true and false.

We do need teachers at the same time though. Questions are real. Teachers aid understanding.

I do think the education system needs reform for improvement too.

[-] -2 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

I completely agree. Our education is in horrible need of reform.

Being poor however is a bad excuse for being a moron.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

A library can't simply replace a school.

We need both.

No one called anyone a moron. You're making assumptions.

[-] -2 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Moron: mental defectant.

By definition an ignorant person is a moron. It's not meant to be an insult.

School learning should compliment library learning, not vice versa.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Uneducated and "mental defectant" are 2 different things.

Put a child in a library, never say a word, and see if he can read a book by the time he's 25. This is why we have teachers and schools. Parents are also teachers.

[-] -2 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

90% of learning takes place outside of school. Teachers are aids to learning, they can't force a child to learn.

The student has the responsibility to learn for themselves as much as possible.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

so you use this as a justification for privatization of schools? Or do you even have a point?

No one said school is the only source for knowledge. We are saying education is important. Schools should be improved, not privatized so only the rich can have access.

[-] 1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

The quality of a school is based on the students, not the teachers. Schools should be uber public and free as can be. But learning starts with the student, not with the teacher.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Either way, teachers are incredibly important.

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Where did you go to school?

[-] 0 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Does it matter?

I can say that I have attended extremely mediocre public schools since I was 5 years old. Most of my learning came from reading books.

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

You better head back to the library.

[-] 1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Wat Eva u saya.

[-] 1 points by penguento (362) 1 year ago

Good public schools. Charter schools tend to arise in places where public schools are failing. Build great public schools and the rationale for charters is gone. Permit public schools where students fail, and parents will want an alternative.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

HOW has education failed ? ? ?

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

It ends with 75% of students getting taught at Walmart.

[-] -1 points by DeathsHead1 (-111) 1 year ago

The single best argument is because they are not directly run by the State.

[-] -1 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

Well it sounds to me as if these school shootings could be the result of the changes being implemented in the schools. Are these violent acts the results from what privatized schools will produce, more than likely. At least that is what I will be telling people and you can too. The people wanting these changes should be liable for all acts that occur in schools and pay accordingly not that compensation can restore the lives of children but pay they will.

[-] 0 points by Nader (74) 1 year ago

Most of the school shootings I can think of happened at public schools.

Why would you tell people otherwise? Are you really saying that the best argument against private schools is that they result in school shootings when that isn't even true?

[-] -1 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

Though they are not yet privatized the ideals are being implemented by way of demands on teachers and different principal actions and yes I would everything is connected

[-] -1 points by Nader (74) 1 year ago

I think that is a huge stretch and I can guarantee you that you will find no evidence whatsoever to back it up.

[-] 0 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

time will tell

[-] -3 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 1 year ago

Show me how many of the school shootings that have occurred were by people who attended private schools. I'm betting not a single one. And charter schools are not private schools for crying out loud.

[-] -2 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

Some of the situation with schools is in using technology for all parts of education. Kids are get bored and at this point do not even know what is missing. Books and writing seemed to produce a better education. Charter schools vary so much studies involving them do not seem possible as accurate because each one would be separate study. Privatization of schools is not the same as charter school. One certain thing about the privatization is the heads of these companies will be the same people already taking all the money and in this case at the high cost of our children's future! The same people do not need to take more money and then also will be the unemployed teachers who are at least giving their the lives toward the well being of the children. Though this gets more challenging as for us all Get out of WDC where it all is rooted.

[-] -3 points by Theeighthpieceuv8 (-32) from Seven Sisters, Wales 1 year ago

The public school system in the metro area is done.

[-] -3 points by penguento (362) 1 year ago

I might observe also that charter schools are by and large initiated and pushed through via a collective decision-making process of the parents and community. And in many cases, the teachers themselves are amongst the instigators and collaborators. OWS and this forum claim to be in favor of horizontal, collaborative community-based decision-making. If the people of a community decide that charter schools are best for them, who are we -- who is OWS -- to question that? Do they not have that right as citizens? Do they not have the right do decide the circumstances under which their children are educated? Do they not have the right to create an alternative if they feel their children are not adequately served by the public schools?

[+] -4 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 1 year ago

Here's an article discussing the pros and cons-and answering arguments against charter schools.

41 States and DC offer Charter Schools according to the article. Seems like the public generally supports them or they wouldn't have voted them into existence.

http://www.washingtonpolicy.org/publications/brief/citizens-guide-initiative-1240-allow-public-charter-schools-washington

[+] -5 points by inutileows (-18) 1 year ago

Yeah but obviously public schools produce idiots

[+] -5 points by DeathsHead1 (-111) 1 year ago

Well, considering the gods awful job the government has done with it ( as in the dumbing down) of our educational system I would argue for privatization. After all, the elites send their kids to private schools. And there are a shitload of liberals that do too.

[-] -3 points by DeathsHead1 (-111) 1 year ago

WELL?

[-] 4 points by gsw (2687) 1 year ago

Again, facts don't back your opinion

http://charterschoolscandals.blogspot.com/

Some charters do better; the majority do the same or worse. CREDO also moved beyond individual student performance to examine the overall performance of charter schools across multiple subject areas. They found that while some charter schools do better than the traditional public schools that fed them, the majority do the same or worse. Almost one-fifth of charters (17 percent) performed significantly better (at the 95 percent confidence level) than the traditional public school. However, an even larger group of charters (37 percent) performed significantly worse in terms of reading and math. The remainder (46 percent) did not do significantly better or worse.

http://www.centerforpubliceducation.org/Main-Menu/Organizing-a-school/Charter-schools-Finding-out-the-facts-At-a-glance

[-] -1 points by DeathsHead1 (-111) 1 year ago

You know what? You are absolutely right! We lead the world,! Hooray!!!!

[-] -3 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 1 year ago

http://www.washingtonpolicy.org/publications/brief/citizens-guide-initiative-1240-allow-public-charter-schools-washington

"The CREDO study has been criticized for the weakness of its data and methodology. Stanford researchers only looked at charter schools in 15 selected states and the District of Columbia, considerably less than half of the 41 states that have charter schools. Furthermore, the laws authorizing charter schools vary widely across states, yet the CREDO study made no effort to account for these important differences.

The data included charter schools open less than one year, and students who had attended a charter school for less than one year. In both cases the research period was not long enough to provide meaningful conclusions."

[-] 2 points by gsw (2687) 1 year ago

So where's your study?

Oh you like this group?

http://www.desmogblog.com/washington-policy-center-background-and-history

The Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation is considered the "largest and most influential right-wing foundation" in the United States.  As of 2005, the Bradley Foundation had $706 million in assets, and was giving away more than $34 million a year to organizations and institutions.  The Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, Inc. states its mission is "to support limited, competent government; a dynamic marketplace for economic, intellectual, and cultural activity; and a vigorous defense of American ideas and institutions." Desmogblog (http://s.tt/1mnRY)

To satisfy this objective the Bradley Foundation supports organizations and individuals that promote the deregulation of business, the rollback of most social welfare programs, and the privatization of government services.  Since 1985, The Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, Inc. has donated $564,992,276 in grant money.  Conservative organizations that have received funding from the Bradley Foundation include:  the American Enterprise Institute (17,137,797), the Heritage Foundation ($14,293,702), the Hudson Institute ($6,760,560), the George C. Marshall Institute ($3,535,303), the Hoover Institution ($2,501,000), the Competitive Enterprise Institute ($765,040), the Reason Foundation ($957,500), the Cato Institute ($862,500), and the Heartland Institute ($548,000). Desmogblog (http://s.tt/1mnRY)

Hope you know what your buying.

No need for facts. You have paid for propaganda.

[-] 0 points by vaprosvyeh (-400) 1 year ago

I didn't buy or pay for anything thank you. I posted an article that I stated discussed pros and cons and answered arguments against charter schools. Period.

From the site you linked to-Center for Public Education-

Conclusion-

"Consequently, it’s imperative that more research and education be done. Charters are largely misunderstood – only 41 percent of voters even know that charter schools are in fact public schools. The incomplete research base behind charters means that many states may be heading into a reform strategy without a clear understanding of how charter schools work best, or how they interact with and affect traditional public schools. Charter schools need more research, oversight, and true evaluation to fulfill their purpose of being laboratories that traditional public schools can learn from."

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

HOW has education failed ???