Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: I did not want to post a cartoon about Boston - but this demands viewing

Posted 1 year ago on April 17, 2013, 3:48 p.m. EST by bensdad (8977)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

29 Comments

29 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 4 points by WSmith (4187) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

It's exactly what I was thinking and feeling only in a smaller, dumber, more Hillbilly Taliban sort of way.

9-11 got full lemming consideration and Patriot Act EXPLOITATION! The filthy RIGHT WING is already blaming the "black" in the White House!!

And they vote down Background Checks.

Wake Up!! It's Class War and they are pitching their Zombies at us as fodder!

[-] 4 points by ZenDog (13639) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

why?

We know the blood of innocence has been spilled upon the pavement yet again, and the grief of those loved and lost remains red and raw among all those who bore witness, who bare witness still, and our silent tears have yet to cease.

And so how does this cartoon help us, to bind our wounds, or to bring new perspective to this most recent . . . .

  • act of carnage

.

z

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

in response to our waco discussion:

http://occupywallst.org/article/mobilize-striking-fast-food-workers/#comment-962086

Obviously I can't say why or even if. I do think their is a possibility this secondary event could be just an effort at confusion, disruption, attempt to shake confidence, dominate news cycles.

And of course if it's a planned explosion they may have desired mass casualties.

It's an easy target, ain't it?

(responded here to get the exchange off the worker rights post)

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13639) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

One can easily produce mass casualties with accidental engineering - air planes and bus accidents each have that potential - and in fact, as it happens, there was a bus accident not far from where I live just last night. It did not produce mass casualties in this instance. Bus accidents are, statistically speaking, relatively rare, I think the NTSB keeps stats on that, I know someone does, and I believe they made comment back in 1997 or early 1998 regarding a series of bus accidents that was, for that time, statistically significant. We may be witnessing yet another such series of statistically significant events.

the . . . benefits . . . of accidental engineering, especially with a facility where safety features and or measures have been circumvented by some means, are several:

  1. no suspicious behavior may be tied directly to causation
  2. no physical evidence may be tied to causation
  3. no blame is likely to befall anyone unless it is those who circumvented safety methods or procedures,
  4. when such an event is engineered, it can fit nicely into a bit of guerrilla theater that provides a kind of foreknowledge of the event to the intended target or targets - which may then inspire a deep sense of dread, especially when it becomes clear that the official story is that of accident, because to the target of the advertisement it now is clear that planning took place, and no blame will follow.

    • this does not fit with the aim of most terrorists, whose intent is to terrify whole populations, and provide a tool that can be used for recruitment and fundraising purposes

    • this does fit the aim of creating a general sense of unease among a large population, may produce mad shouts of conspiracy from the fringe of the crowd, which in turn will be scorned by the majority, and thus reinforce the security of the engineer from exposure.

And this then, can become, under the proper circumstances, a very successful kind of fundraiser, but only for a specific kind of terrorist.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Ok. You think it was an accident or sabotage in Waco.?

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13639) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I think that a clear definition of terms is required, and that demands precise understanding of how accidents may be engineered and what, if anything, makes such events similar to, or different from sabotage.

If safety measures, features, procedures or reporting were in any way circumvented then the least one can say is:

  • it was an accident waiting to happen.

You should read the first edition of The Psychology of Everyday Things, and then think like a killer. One who intends to get away by committing the perfect crime. The perfect crime is that crime that is not quantified as criminal.

Given the sum of pieces, and their symmetry to the events of late 2001, I do believe we are witnessing events that come as a result of some very careful consideration.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Yeah I think the timing leads me to believe someone used the lax safety measures, features, procedures to engineer an easy massive explosion that can later be characterized as "not criminal".

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13639) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

There was a report from CNN - grapes saw it too, indicating falsified safety reports - can't find that report as of now, it may have been something I heard early this morning on tv -

in any case what I said there may be relevant to our discussion here -

.

I've seen that - it is early yet. We've seen a bit of confusion surrounding these other recent events, some of which might even be . . . . useful . . . . so I would wait a bit before concluding absolutely that the company did falsify any reports,

  • certainly if they did, and someone very . . . adroit . . . took notice, it becomes a safe place to engage in mayhem.

It may be that a series of falsified reports created the possibility of a chain of events with a single inevitable conclusion.

Once such a possibility exists, all that is required is the identification of the key domino - and then a small push,

  • or even a whisper of breath

.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

I'll buy that.

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (13639) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

well duh - here's the quote from the article grapes mentioned - it was linked in the op - Forum Post: Deja vu -- Worst-case scenario at Texas fertilizer plant exceeded by fire and explosion.

  • In 2006, West Fertilizer had a complaint filed against it for a lingering smell of ammonia, the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality website shows.

  • Separately, the plant had informed the Environmental Protection Agency that it presented no risk of fire or explosion, according to The Dallas Morning News. It did so in an emergency planning report required of facilities that use toxic or hazardous chemicals.

  • The plant's report to the EPA said even a worst-case scenario wouldn't be that dire: There would be a 10-minute release of ammonia gas that wouldn't kill or injure anyone, the newspaper reported.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Thx

[-] 1 points by grapes (2763) 1 year ago

CNN article on Texas Fertilizer Plant Explosion in which:

"Worst-case scenario

In 2006, West Fertilizer had a complaint filed against it for a lingering smell of ammonia, the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality website shows.

Separately, the plant had informed the Environmental Protection Agency that it presented no risk of fire or explosion, according to The Dallas Morning News. It did so in an emergency planning report required of facilities that use toxic or hazardous chemicals.

The plant's report to the EPA said even a worst-case scenario wouldn't be that dire: There would be a 10-minute release of ammonia gas that wouldn't kill or injure anyone, the newspaper reported.

What happened Wednesday night was much worse. "

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Yes I saw that. I'm not surprised the corp was careless,& dishonest. I guess I'm saying someone who knew that decided to take advantage and nudge them into a massive explosion.

[-] 1 points by grapes (2763) 1 year ago

We do not know for sure yet but it is a plausible hypothesis to check into. 'Things happen' but there are also engineering that make them likely to happen, especially in cases where there have been bad omens left unaddressed, silenced, or covered up.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Or some RW Waco wacko lit a match. But I don't know, I'm not sayin' nothin.

Jes sayin'

[-] 2 points by grapes (2763) 1 year ago

Yes, the three monkeys got it right -- see no evil, hear no evil, and speak no evil.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

That may be.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

I feel that an artist can create feelings that take us beyond the obvious

[-] -1 points by PerfectCast4 (-6) 1 year ago

Its an arrogant cartoon. a cartoon cant replace the image of a man being wheeld away with a leg blown off.

Very intrusive.

[-] 5 points by ZenDog (13639) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

You would prefer the grisly blood and bone held before your face? To stoke the carnal rage, no doubt, for that is all the power such imagery may possess - unless the blood and bone of innocence comes to us born on the arms of a firefighter, and then that rage becomes much more poignant and acute.

Is it arrogant? And why? Because it reminds us of that other day not so long ago, the twin explosions, the poison letters, a symmetry so severe, that day and this, we think instantly of a choreography in madness, and then we shut the door?

And because we think we must shut that door, such imagery as this cartoon to you seems grandiose, arrogant, intrusive.

And what of the talking heads on national television? Those who remark upon eery similarity, before passing on to the next news item - are they too, grandiose, arrogant, intrusive?

Perhaps this cartoon is not that at all. Perhaps it is something else entirely. Perhaps it comes to us in silence, speaks to us what we already know, and tells us that our silence is all there is - nothing more need be said because there is nothing more to say.

I think there is something more to say.

I think there is something more that must be said.

I think that just because the talking heads and the cartoonists all insist with their drawings and their behavior that there is nothing more to say, does not enjoin us in their conspiracy of silence.

These are not individual acts of terror - this is a symphony of madness.

These are the acts of the candidates of Manchuria - zombified fools and tools in the hands of madmen.

We know this is true, in our hearts we know this is true - I say we because I believe the nature and the scope and the repetition leads us to no other reasonable conclusion - but I cannot speak on behalf of we - I know, and the reason that I know is because there was a day not so long ago, when I nearly became a tool, not unlike those who have wrought those bombs and those letters.

I know.

Only now those who come with forceful questions come not to question what one of us believe. Now they come with forceful questions to question what all of us believe. All of us. This nation.

With such questions and their way of asking they can break a man.

Perhaps with their way of asking they will break a nation.

[-] 2 points by Renneye (3300) 1 year ago

Poignant - iconoclastic - provocative - tragic ~ beautiful.

~ Thank you

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13639) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

well thanks

[-] 1 points by Narley (-629) 1 year ago

Now that is clarity. Even poetic. Did you write that yourself?

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13639) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago
[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13639) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I really do like that cartoon - its come to grow on me . . .

[-] 1 points by Shule (1696) 1 year ago

Because of what the U.S.A. government is doing overseas and here at home, there are a lot of pissed off people running around the world these days. What else does one expect?

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

We shouldn't be surprised if people that experience terror, wreak the same

~Odin~

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

This is despicable

[-] 1 points by WSmith (4187) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

You are useless!!