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Forum Post: How many of you pay more then $25,000 in state/federal income tax?

Posted 1 year ago on Nov. 8, 2012, 2:27 p.m. EST by Shayneh (-482)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I thought I would throw that question out because anyone who has to pay that amount are really getting screwed - especially if they are working for someone.

Something needs to be done about it - we as working class need to pay less in taxes instead of more.

31 Comments

31 Comments


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[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Arguably more pertinently, perhaps consider :

fiat lux ...

[-] 2 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

You mean you won't ceate jobs until your taxes go down? That was like so unpredictable.

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Nearly 50% of Americans don't even make that much in total income. If you consider making $100,000 (upper 7% of wage earners) working class, you are completely out of touch with economic reality.

http://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2011

[-] 0 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

How can you sat that people making $100,000 are completely out of touch.

Sounds to me like you are out of touch - Working class people need a good income to provide - I guess your income is somewhere around $15,000 - you are a bitter person.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Read my reply above. Obviously you didn't read it or look at the link.

[-] -1 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/16/what-is-the-middle-class/

The working class is basically anyone who has to "work" for someone else in order to survive/pay bills/obtain basic life essentials. Most people making less than $250,000 a year-unless they are a small business owner, do indeed "work" for someone else and are therefor part of the working class.

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

$250,000 is working class? Not the definition I've ever heard over the last 50 years.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/working-class

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_class

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Well said. Up with the proletariat, down with the 1% oligarchs.

[-] 0 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

I said making LESS than. Working class, by definition are those who work for a living and do not own the means of production...no one else/no other vehicle-such as investments or profit-provides any income to them. They are employed by someone else in order to sustain a living.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Show me your source for the definition of "working class".

[-] 0 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

wikipedia-working class-

"wage laborers and those dependent on the welfare state are working class, and those who live on accumulated capital and/or exploit the labor of others are not."

http://workingclasspride.com/15.html

"In summary, the label “working class” describes a segment of our society defined more by its core values, resourcefulness, and a willingness to work hard than level of income. It is insulting and inappropriate to define it as a lower-tier social class. Rather, it’s a diverse group of individuals who provide a wholesome and productive influence in our society."

[-] 0 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

"Because we have less disposable income and good hand skills, we tend to use our resourcefulness to solve problems in daily living. We fix our cars, mow our lawns, and remodel our houses because we can. Sometimes this means calling a friend to lend us some tools or give us a hand, which is part of the culture and comradery of being working class."

http://workingclasspride.com/15.html

I know plenty of "white collar workers" who do exactly the above. I watch my neighbors do it all the time, in fact my husband did it just a week ago when his car needed work. Two of my neighbors are working on a third neighbor helping him finish his basement. And everyone I know either mows their own lawn or makes their teenaged sons do it. For FREE. My sons mow the elderly neighbors lawn FOR them (free) and also shovel and clear their sidewalks and driveway of snow in the winter.

And none of my neighbors make anywhere near $80k a year...much less $250K but most people would classify our neighborhood as a middle income one.

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 1 year ago

The worst unfairness of the current tax system is in the preferential tax treatment given to investment income versus income earned by working. You can see this even at moderate income levels.

For example, for 2012 someone who earns $50,000 by working for wages will pay $6,091 income tax + $2,825 payroll tax for a total of $8,916.

Contrast the same income but it consists of $25,000 long term capital gains and $25,000 qualified dividends. That person will pay $735 income tax and zero payroll tax.

Worker pays twelve times the tax of trust fund baby.

You can play around with different scenarios here: http://interactive.taxfoundation.org/taxcalc/#calculator

[-] 0 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

You can't contrast "income" and the tax on income to "investments" and capital gains on those investments - they are two completely different things

The rate is not the same - Let me ask - where does "investment money" come from?

If you can answer that question then you will know the truth about "capital gains".

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 1 year ago

I'm afraid I'm not understanding your point. Could you clarify please?

Only things which are not alike can be contrasted.

I just pointed out that the tax rates on wages is not the same as the rates on investment income.

Investment money can come from many sources.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

To answer your question, noone here pays that much.

[-] -1 points by Saesneg (-166) from Linwood, NJ 1 year ago

This 25k figure would place people in the 100k+ range and in the northeast average household income is in excess of this amount; additionally they are paying county taxes, town taxes, sales tax, excise taxes, and property taxes, typically in some amount plus or minus of 10K. These are working class people and everyone of them has already been negatively impacted by some amount - in the 2 to 5% range - by the present administration.

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by Saesneg (-166) from Linwood, NJ 1 year ago

Well, I can relate. And when people say I should vote away more tax dollars to aid the poor whom I have never even met, and never will meet, as some social justice mandate, I start counting bullets. And I think a lot of Americans do.

[-] -2 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

Depending on all things considered, if the "average" person in the 99% (according to the huffypo article) pays 27.5% between both fed and state, that's around $90,000 per year. How many of the regular posters here do you actually think make that much or more? Just curious....

[-] -1 points by Saesneg (-166) from Linwood, NJ 1 year ago

My feeling on this is that most are very low earners - many are younger, unemployed or underemployed by choice - but there are also those in the upper middle class range with a rid-themselves-of-guilt political mentality. And then, of course, there are those working class who, through no fault of their own, have taken a beaten in life (I empathize). But I am none of these (yet). And in defending my right to work, and my income from the taxers, and my cultural heritage, I have been banned five times - by VQ:Krazy2.

[+] -5 points by TheRazor (-329) 1 year ago

$2520/month because i am self incorporated, have to pay both sides of FICA AND payroll income tax on that "salary" and pay myself about $100k/ year. The rest i pay to myself as a dividend, which shields that excess from the medicare portion of FICA. That dividend is still taxed as ordinary income. On this DI, i pay about $20k/quarter estimates.

15 people depend on me to survive as they are my employees. If i close the doors, they are truly fucked, they lose their health coverage and wages and right now they have nowhere to turn. I own them.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21407) 1 year ago

Do you really mean that last sentence?

[-] -1 points by TheRazor (-329) 1 year ago

In a sense its true. If i stop working, if i retire, or decide that i am not making enough money for the headaches of running a small business, they are out of a job. I pay thm a devent wage and cover their healthcare.

How do you see it? I want to get richer and that propells their lifestyle. If I stop, who will pick up at the least their family health insurance? They need me far than i need them, wouldnt you agree?

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21407) 1 year ago

I see it that in a civilized society they would have job opportunities so that they could choose another job. I see it that in a civilized society employers would appreciate their employees as human beings and the creators of the profit that they exploit. Or, maybe even, dreamer that I am, the workers own the means of their own production.

You certainly don't own your employees, but the fact that you think you do is an interesting sentiment and one I think many employers, be they from large businesses or small businesses, hold. Very telling.

Workers of the world unite!

[-] 0 points by TheRazor (-329) 1 year ago

I have offered to sell them the business so many times. They dont want the responsibility.

There isnt ONE publicly traded company that couldnt be bought by a united labor organization. The fact that so few companies are purchased by their employees is very telling. Why arent more companies employee owned?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21407) 1 year ago

Maybe they don't trust that you would sell it to them for a fair price. And, to answer your last question, I believe it is a cultural thing. It is just not part of our culture. We are so fearful of socialism and workers' owning their means of production seems like socialism.

[-] 0 points by TheRazor (-329) 1 year ago

Business sales prices are virtually cookbook. There is no fair price. depending on the type of business, there are exact formulas for computing price. The budiness I own is either sold for 1x gross sales or 2x net income. To be exact, $1.8-2.2million. Each employee would need to come up with $150000. And for that $150000, their income would be about 8% more after debt service. About $12000. That generally isnt enough of a return for the headache of owning a business. Its is for me but not them.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21407) 1 year ago

Each employee would need to come up with $150,000. LOL! No problem after all that money they've been able to save up working for you!

Look, most employees do not have enough capital to "purchase" a business. Having employee owned means of production is something that can be done slowly over time or something that can be made a priority for a society.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Sell it to the employees and do what you want next. Contrary to your belief - U R replaceable.

[-] -1 points by TheRazor (-329) 1 year ago

In this case i am irreplaceable, howver i have offered to sell it to them and they could hire me back as a consultant. They cant come up with the $2 milliion.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

Do you "own" them in a biblical sense?