Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: How many of you face the insurance mandate/tax/penalty?

Posted 1 year ago on Nov. 7, 2012, 11:27 a.m. EST by freakzilla (-161) from Detroit, MI
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

When does that kick in? Next year or 2014?

69 Comments

69 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 3 points by elf3 (2693) 1 year ago

I have been fined- live in MA switched jobs and insurance takes a few months to kick in so I was supposed to buy my own policy to bridge the gap, I didn't since I was also waiting for a pay check that gets held back. I feel the mandate is illegal (it was thrown in there by the way by Romney as a concession to so called universal care) Which by the way universal does not mean funneled through a monopoly insurance system who scrapes a profit of the top while denying care.

[-] 2 points by lukefromDC (44) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

I would be exempt from the mandate on grounds of lacking income high enough to be required to file a tax return. I also will see no favorable impact unless the walk-in clinics I use accept Medicaid, which I probably could qualify for but have never signed up for. If signing up would make it illegal for the walk-in clinics to see me(if they do not accept it), I would lose all access to medicine beyone what I can for myself since for personal reasons I don't go to doctors who require advance appointments. In short, it is quite likely I will not be affected in any way by this program, for better or worse.

Still, I've watched friends with terrible illnesses and just enough income to have something to protect (I do not) get into real trouble with the outrageous costs of fee for service medicine. Obamacare does NOT fix this, it just tries to paper it over with compulsory purchase of insurance or a tax on nonbuyers with income.

Single payer is the only fix that works, most other industrialized nations have it. That is because it is the only system that controls costs all the way to the base. Everything from prescription drug pricing to medical school tuition has to be brought under public control or we will soon have perfect medicine so expensive even Bill Gates can't afford it.

I do not speak as being personally needy, since I use only minimal medical services, treat most of my own condtions myself, boycott patented medicines, and choose not to screen for nor to fight things like cancer, and don't do any of the routine medicine advised for someone my age (47).

Instead I speak as someone worried about seeing friends with serious illnesses they want to fight and move on have to make ugly choices on economic grounds. Obamacare doesn't put price controls on prescription drugs, and it does nothing to control the growth of high-priced boutique surgeons and hospitals nor the closing of public hospitals,

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 1 year ago

what insurance, never had it never will. Noone told me about it,I should be informed about something before it is enforceable.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

Who knows. We'll be trying to figure out this ACA for decades. I've spent many years on both public (VA) and private HC at times so nobody can tell me squat about them. It's up to the states now. If you can get enough support, dump the ACA and get Medicare for all but DO NOT do away with the private sector. Make them consolidate and let them raise their prices for the the rich people who want to buy into it. You'll need their tax dollars to help support Medicare for all.

[-] 1 points by Coyote88 (-24) 1 year ago

Family members have a small business. It's already raised costs. In 2014 they are going to have to lay off a few employees.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

Nope. I have medicare advantage. But your state should have created an exchange to enable you to buy a member of a group plan at lower rates than as an individual in the past.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

2014

[-] 2 points by freakzilla (-161) from Detroit, MI 1 year ago

Having seen first hand how the govt handles voting and polling places, I'm a little disturbed at the idea of them moving into healthcare.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

Hey, that fiasco was created by the states that some want to turn everything over to instead of the Feds. Check the affiliation of the Secretaries of States where the long lines and the voter ID messups, changing rules and long ballots and vote changing voting machines were. Let us know what you find.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Well, to be honest-they didn't go far enough.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21335) 1 year ago

Exactly. We need universal healthcare, something almost every other developed nation has. Instead, we have 49 million uninsured Americans and millions more whose health insurance is part of a for profit system that enriches the insurance companies and the wealthy who own stock in those companies.

[-] 2 points by Ache4Change (3158) 1 year ago

Millions more are under-insured and many millions would de dropped by their insurers for any small print excuse and that still leaves the many, many millions who are actually only one paycheck away from no healthcare coverage! Thank you for your very important comment.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21335) 1 year ago

Thanks, A4C. You make many good points. Let's keep pushing hard on healthcare and the many other issues that created OWS.

[-] 2 points by Ache4Change (3158) 1 year ago

Healthcare is a MASSIVE issue and in Ohio at least, people are waking up. I read what you write on these threads and appreciate it. Thank you. We are all supposed to be living in a 'civilised' society so healthcare for all is a basic human right in any 'democratic society'. It's really simple to understand!

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21335) 1 year ago

Thanks, A4C. I read your comments too. Glad you're here.

[-] 2 points by Ache4Change (3158) 1 year ago

If you're ever near Toledo OH you and yours are invited to eat with me and mine. Also, I just edited my last comment as a 'civilised, democratic society' - well that is why we are all (well mostly!) here, right?

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21335) 1 year ago

I live far away from you, but thanks. It's always good to beef up our comments if we think of more to say. I agree that healthcare is a human right.

[-] 2 points by Ache4Change (3158) 1 year ago

Your 'nycga' link was very appreciated and saved to my desktop. Thank you and solidarity to you.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Let's organize large scale protests/pressure on our state govts to drop the private ins mandate and create a much cheaper public option on the state level.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21335) 1 year ago

We agree. Start pressing on the issues now. That is what we have to do.

[-] 1 points by TheRazor (-329) 1 year ago

How is a public option going to be cheaper? Please elaborate. Europe has a 21% VAT, that is regressive in the extreme.

[-] 2 points by grapes (3256) 1 year ago

A federal option can probably be vastly cheaper than the current system of patchwork of uneven coverage care involving denial of benefits, supporting documentations, appeals, dickering over coverage, technicalities of billing codes, tons of paperwork, totally disgusted idealistic doctors ("I did NOT become a doctor to wrangle with insurance companies. I wanted to be a DOCTOR!"), and dishonest/under-the-table cost shiftings that border on or are actually frauds. A federal public option can do away with most of the cumbersome and tedious billing practice and cost allocation problems. By design, insurance companies tend to haggle about your health care costs when you desperately need the care because that is when THEIR profits are at stake. No developed country pays higher medical costs than the U.S. and yet the U.S. ends up repeatedly near the bottoms in the rankings of developed countries in many health care related measures.

[-] 1 points by TheRazor (-329) 1 year ago

Medicare costs at least $12000 per retiree. THAT public option is very expensive.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21335) 1 year ago

That is because everyone in Medicare is over 65 years of age! The most sensible system would be one that includes ALL citizens. This would mix in the healthy and young with the old and it would be much cheaper and would eliminate risk of bankruptcy for all people. This is what almost all other developed nations do! They have universal health care! We are lagging so far behind it is a major embarrassment.

[-] 1 points by TheRazor (-329) 1 year ago

Why on earth would it be much cheaper? Please be clear. I am not against a PO, but the cost will run into the hundreds of dollars per month for the young and healthy. Europe handles that with a regressive VAT of 21%. A young person in France pays an additional $2100 on every $10000 he/she spends. Using your $13/hr example you always quote, if a young person spends all $26000 they earned that year, their taxation would be roughly $4000 or about $350/month. That is a fact that cannot be argued against, so dont try.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21335) 1 year ago

It would be cheaper for many reasons. First of all it would be not-for-profit. Second, it would cover all citizens eliminating that huge risk that each and every one of us has to worry about. More people would go to graduate school. More people would start their own businesses, etc. Third, it is cheaper because it includes healthy young people as well as sickly old people. This evens out the cost. Fourth, it is cheaper because administration is streamlined. You don't have all the red tape and advertising to pay for. That is what I can think of off the top of my head. Also, I personally think it should not be a reimbursement system, but an insurance system. So, people would have some out of pocket costs, but not have to worry about the big expenses that really do cause many Americans to go bankrupt.

[-] 1 points by TheRazor (-329) 1 year ago

To add to the discussion, Swiss healthcare costs about $3000/yr/person. Obesity in the swiss runs 7.7%. In America jts over 30%. I think an argument could be made the all the added costs in America stem from our lifestyle and not medical profit.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21335) 1 year ago

It's a valid point. I agree that Americans are extremely unhealthy. We live in a sick society with a lot more poverty than the Swiss. Poor people tend to eat poorly. The Swiss, well they don't stand for poverty. So, we have many things to fix, healthcare and poverty are at the top of the list and go hand in hand. Good point.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26689) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

And now is a good time to be talking and sharing these issues.

Fundamental change will only happen with the involvement of the people.

Another election cycle is over - the work remains to get done.


[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (10085) 0 minutes ago

Thanks. These are serious issues if we want to make this country a viable place to live for all of its citizens. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26689) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Good summation BW.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21335) 1 year ago

Thanks. These are serious issues if we want to make this country a viable place to live for all of its citizens.

[-] 1 points by TheRazor (-329) 1 year ago

Per capita spending in Europe is about $2500/person/ year. In America its about $4500. How much of this can be weaned out given our much more obese population would be critical. How mu h is related to profit I cant find. Anyway you cut it, everyone will have to pay at least $200/ month in some form.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21335) 1 year ago

I think once you get this in place all Americans would become healthier. I really do. It would be a boon to our economy, to our way of life, and to our freedom!

[-] 1 points by TheRazor (-329) 1 year ago

What responsibility do they have to be healthy now? None?

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21335) 1 year ago

Ill health is connected to poverty and education. It is a societal problem.

[-] 1 points by lukefromDC (44) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

$200 a month may exceed the dollar income of a few and certainly nobody participating in the economy is going to not pay the electricity, the rent, or not buy food to pay this unless they have serious health issues. Otherwise health insurance is first to go.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26689) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

The whole idea is to cover those who do not have the money - that means that they don't pay until they are able - change in economic circumstances.

[-] -1 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

What you don't seem to be "getting" is that the law does NOT provide health care FOR those who do not have the money. The law provides "subsidies" that "help" those who are low income to purchase health insurance if their employers do not provide it. These "poor" will be exempt from paying the penalty/fee-but they will NOT get free coverage...they will get tax breaks/credits/subsidies that can be applied to the cost of the insurance that many of them will STILL have to pay for.

"Under rules proposed by the service, some working-class families would be unable to afford family coverage offered by their employers, and yet they would not qualify for subsidies provided by the law."

..." In 2011, according to an annual survey by the Kaiser Family Foundation, premiums for employer-sponsored health insurance averaged $5,430 a year for single coverage and $15,070 for family coverage. The employee’s share of the premium averaged $920 for individual coverage and more than four times as much, $4,130, for family coverage.

Under the I.R.S. proposal, such costs would be deemed affordable for a family making $35,000 a year, even though the family would have to spend 12 percent of its income for full coverage under the employer’s plan. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/us/ambiguity-in-health-law-could-make-family-coverage-too-costly.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

($4,130.00 per year for a family making $35,000 a year=$344 per month premium)

And very quietly, in September of 2012, the Obama Administration announced that illegal aliens will NOT be eligible for health insurance coverage or subsidies.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/18/health/policy/limits-placed-on-immigrants-in-health-care-law.html?pagewanted=all

[-] 0 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

For family coverage the, average premium paid by employees towards their company sponsored health insurance was $4130.00 per year or $344 per month. Link below shows that would be deemed "affordable" for a family making $35k a year!

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/us/ambiguity-in-health-law-could-make-family-coverage-too-costly.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[-] 1 points by grapes (3256) 1 year ago

Per your numbers, if the U.S. were to lower its spending by 33% from $4500 to $3000, it will still spend 20% more than the $2500 in Europe (just to placate the American exceptionalist who always desires being number one, including racing to the poor house by spending on medical insurance). That is still a very worthwhile reduction and the saved money can do a lot of other good that people can come up with.

Obesity of the U.S. population can be viewed positively as the U.S. successful conquest of hunger because our government encourages cheap calories in foods and drinks through farm and corporate subsidies. Wise choices need to be made by people (although there are indeed areas where fresh and healthy foods have become unavailable because of the lack of demand, again due to people's choices). The other reason is our ubiquitous automobile. We just do not walk as much as other countries' people in general. Again, it is largely our own choice. Some of it was due to old choices made by our forebears but there is NO law against walking instead of driving to get there.

[-] 0 points by TheRazor (-329) 1 year ago

In 2003, in the state of New York, Medicaid cost $9607 per recipient. Nationwide it was $5766. These numbers are inline with what i posted so you are wrong.

[-] 6 points by beautifulworld (21335) 1 year ago

I didn't post any numbers, so I'm not wrong. Look at other countries and how they accomplish universal healthcare. They do so without breaking the bank. Put everyone in, streamline the administration, make it non-profit and bingo, you have a plan that works. Healthcare should not be a profit making venture.

[-] 4 points by DKAtoday (26689) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

And that is the KEY - Health Care - not insurance.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3256) 1 year ago

Medicare is not really a public option because all of the cares are still provided by the private health industry with all of the same costs tagged on (although somewhat less because of the volume discount that Medicare gets). Medicare concentrates on the elderly largely and of course that tends to incur more costs than the average person. There are also many lifestyle changes that can be accomplished through basic health care by federal service starting at midlife for example that can drastically reduce the costs later when Medicare kicks in.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3256) 1 year ago

The U.S. has a health care billing system that works like a pinball machine. Shoot the health care cost in as a pinball and the parties involved will pull the levers, tilt the table, shake it, yell at each other, file briefs, engage attorneys, measure how deep pockets are, and all the while the patients are whimpering and more pinballs join the game. All the while, the administrative costs go higher and higher. You may not see them in your health care bills but they ARE there!

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

You think having a public healthcare option means having a value added tax?

Why?

[-] 0 points by TheRazor (-329) 1 year ago

Absolutely. The money for a public option has to be garnered relatively equally from all citizens. The young and healthy need to support the old and sick. That simply cant be argued against.

You must know (maybe you dont) that insurance means everyone paying into a pot so that future medical catastrophy can be mitigated. We need a huge number of healthy to underwrite the fewer who are sick. This is an absolute law. No one can buy fire insurance after their house burns down. No one should be able to get medical insurance after being diagnosed with cancer. Right now, thats what Obamacare does, to some extent. That isnt insurance. That is financial disaster.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Nah. You are mistaken. Personally I think the cost has already been calculated. but there are additional costs I think we should just tax the wealthy for it. 2% on every stock sale.

That'll do it.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26689) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

You had part of it right That isnt insurance. Because it is not - it is "Health Care".

Not too sharp are ya razor.

[-] 0 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

You only have to pay the private insurance mandate if you DO NOT purchase or have "government approved" health insurance.

The "government approved health insurance" plans will be set up in an exchange system in each state and citizens will be forced to choose from among those plans OR pay for an insurance plan that is not approved ALONG WITH the mandate tax/penalty/fee.

"The bronze plan is expected to be the least expensive plan in the line-up of policies that will be offered through the ObamaCare health insurance exchanges. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that in 2016 the cost of a bronze-level plan for a family would be between $12,000 and $12,500 a year."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gracemarieturner/2012/07/24/how-much-is-the-obamacare-mandate-going-to-cost-you/

That IS your cheapest option as private health insurance costs are going to explode.

[-] 3 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

I can't afford it. I can't even afford 1,000 dollars a year. Not only will costs explode ( they already did increase 33 percent Obama's 2 year in office) but I can promise you that the insurance companies will also cover less and less illnesses. Obama always announces his healthcare and credit reforms so well in advance that the companies have time to screw us even worse. Obamacare is Romney Care on steroids. A local woman who has paid for years into her health insurance was refused coverage for her lung cancer. She did not smoke either. It was just a decision that the insurance company made at the time her doctor submitted her claim. The local folks in our community are raising enough money for her treatment. None of us should pay into Obama's Health Insurance Profit Protection Plan..NOONE of us!!

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I don't believe you.

Protest for public option! Let's put the private insurance corps out of business!

[-] 0 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

I don't CARE if you believe me or not. Read the CBO's report on it. Read the damn legislation and the Supreme Court decisions on it.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

NO!

Read this!

Protest for public option! Let's put the private insurance corps out of business.!

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Yes, and what is more.....hospitals are steadily screwing the nurses simply for profit. They go out on the line and state what they need and what the people need and they get run over.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21335) 1 year ago

Probably similar to what is happening to all workers, rights have been eroded, wages are down, unions weakened, etc. It's all too much.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

It is.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1972) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Would you,could you please help us???

Need tech help

Simple Postcard link to print and send congress:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/now-that-we-got-our-guy-reelected-why-dont-we-do-s/

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by Brython (-146) 1 year ago

Virtually everybody who is employed in NY will be negatively impacted and so will our medicare elderly. Obamacare was a disaster for these people.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

The election is over. What can we protest for?

[-] 1 points by Brython (-146) 1 year ago

Really, I think you're done; mission accomplished, right?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

My mission is to encourage more people to come together to fight for change that benefits the 99%.

What change will you fight for?

[-] 0 points by Brython (-146) 1 year ago

I want to change tax and spend government as a detriment of the people.

The rest of this is a complete waste of time unless you can produce the revenue to pay for it - how much you got?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Well the govt is not gonna stop doing either.

Don't you think we should tax the people to spend on defense?

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Let's organize large scale protests/pressure on our state govts to drop the private ins mandate and create a much cheaper public otion on the state level.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

Everyone faces it. You either purchase a "government approved health care program" on your own or obtain one (through your employer). If you choose not to purchase insurance OR choose (or your employer offers) a plan that is not "approved by the government", you'll pay the mandate/tax/penalty.

You'll get subsidies to help defray costs if you are low income, and others get exemptions, but:

"There are significant new reporting requirements for individuals to prove to the IRS they have maintained qualified health insurance every month during the year, that any premium subsidies they are receiving are justified by their income and family size, and how much their employer paid for their coverage, for starters."

[-] 1 points by lukefromDC (44) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

BTW, the law as passed supposedly forbids the IRS from taking any action to collect that "fine" it you refuse to pay it. Might have been a rider from an opponent of the bill.

[-] 0 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

“The IRS is prevented from issuing liens or levies or other enforcement action,” Nina Olson, who holds a job called the National Taxpayer Advocate at the IRS, told a House hearing in August. “It can collect that mandate through what we call ‘refund offset,’ where a taxpayer has a refund coming to them and we would offset that refund amount with the amount of the penalty.”

http://washingtonexaminer.com/irs-will-garnish-your-tax-refund-to-make-you-pay-obamacares-individual-mandate/article/2509593#.UJwK-2fy3wc

[-] 0 points by Brython (-146) 1 year ago

As insurance costs continue to rise and benefit continues to decrease, most will eventually be forced into the public option which, personally, I do not believe will provide "Sloan Kettering" quality care. Worse, if the care is free, it will be quickly overburdened with the whiners seeking care for trivial aches, pains, and ailments. The rich will have very good healthcare and instead of retiring at 50, future doctors will retire at 35.