Forum Post: Why am I a Liberal?
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 22, 2011, 3:39 p.m. EST by factsrfun
(8310)
from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
How did it come to this?
As a young man in college I was not always the most diligent student. One weekend, near the end of term, was particularly eventful and I found myself on Monday morning sitting, looking at a Dynamics final and no memory of any of the fine formulas we had studied that semester. Then I remembered F=ma. From that kernel I was able to derive all of the formulas I needed and ended up doing pretty well. More importantly, I realized the importance of fundamental concepts; I found that if one has a good understanding of core principles the smaller details are easier to work out. This led me a few years ago to ask myself, aside from the individual policies which align my thinking with “liberals”; why am I a liberal?
After some consideration I arrived on four succinct statements, which I believe also gave me some insight to what motivates the “other” side.
I am a parent.
As a parent I will do anything within my power to advantage my child.
I am a citizen.
As a citizen I believe it is vitally important that we write rules that prevent that.
It is only natural that parents do all they can for their children, however as wealth accumulates this presents a threat to democracy. This is the threat that concerned Jefferson when he spoke of the need for inheritance taxes, not as a form of revenue but a means to protect the democracy from citizens that might become too powerful, and then threaten the will of the people. It is easy to see how this has become the case in America today.
The dangers of inherited wealth to our economy are not unlike monarchy to the health of any nation, when power is derived from birthright rather than one’s labor it is more often foolishly applied. As more and more of our economy becomes “inherited wealth” it becomes more of a target for con men and less a tool for innovators. The world’s financial power has been diverted from improving the human condition into money making schemes designed to enrich those who create them.
I do have some specific suggestions that I feel would be helpful long term:
Public financing for public elections
Flat rate Social Security Tax, first dollar to last all forms of income
Index minimum wage to the average increase in CEO pay for the S&P 500
That’s about it, that shouldn’t be too hard to do, right?
@factsrfun
I think you hit it on the head with the public financing of elections. If you get a chance, check out the book "Republic; Lost" by Lawrence Lessig. It spells out how the corporate money is skewing our political process. Here's my 2 cents:
There are a lot of improvements that need to be made. The list reforms Americans want to see is long and varied depending on who you talk to. That said, I believe there is one reform that would provide the American people the best chances of seeing other meaningful reforms actually happen - that is REAL, loop-hope free CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM! I have seen others on this site calling this the "fulcrum" or pivotal issue. Right now the current legalized bribery, pay-to-play system of campaign donations and paid lobbyists has disenfranchised the American voter. Until this is fixed, any other reform the politicians may try to placate us with (be it a change to healthcare, clamping down predatory school loans, new financial regulations, etc.) will be about as effective as a farmer putting a new roof on his CHICKEN COOP, but still letting the FOX guard it.
We need to go back to the original political currency. Instead of the current system of who can collect the most money from corporations and special interests it should be who has the BEST IDEAS to EFFECTIVELY RUN THE COUNTRY (we don't need "Wealth Redistribution," what we need is "Political Influence Redistribution")!
For the sake of our children and future generations of Americans, we need to take back our democracy from the rich and powerful who are using their vast sums of money to "speak" as if they represent millions of Americans. This "Corporate Personhood" that has crept into our laws is allowing them to manipulating our policies in their favor at the expense of the average American (the recent "Citizens United" Supreme Court ruling is a miscarriage of justice and must be reversed. The $50 or $100 a normal American may give to a political campaign becomes meaningless when corporations or other special interests are handing our millions to buy political access to the decision making process.
For decades now the corporations and special interests have had our "representatives" bought and paid for (both on the right and the left). Concentrating our efforts on getting the money out of our politics is the best way we can create an environment in which further reforms can be realized. Until we end the current system of legalized bribery (campaign donations) and paid lobbying our politicians will continue to be the LAP DOGS of the corporations and special interests. What we need first and foremost is real, loop-hole free CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM!!!! If the corruption is not dealt with first, the chance of any other meaningful reforms becoming a reality is almost zero - the special interests will just use their money to buy votes and put forward bills that create loop-holes or otherwise twist the law in their favor. If we want our children to live in a country where there vote matters, we need to get the money out of our politics, otherwise they will increasingly become the 21st century version of the "landless peasant." Spread the word - End the LEGALIZED BRIBERY!!! CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM needs to be THE main goal of the protests!!!
The hard thing about campaign finance reform is that you cannot prevent me from making and displaying a sign "vote for Obama" because that would violate freedom of speech. If I get 10,000 people togethere and put up billboards you cannot prevent me for the same reason. Since a TV commercial is a form of speech you cannot prevent me from making a commercial and showing it on TV.
So what the candidates do is instead of taking in money to their compaign they have disconnected groups that do this type of campaigning.
The most common is the Super PAC. The argument for these is that since no one person is contributing more than $500 it is OK that they spend millions on advertising for a candidate. The largest of these PACs is ActBlue which has spent over $57 million.
BTW I used to have a handle "Zenisin" more to the point:
I think we have to consider what do we fundamentally believe, for instance do we, as a personal choice for each of us, feel that if you want to have your ideas considered, you need to chip in on the bills. When some say the 47 million Americans don’t pay any tax, then on another day say how they fight for taxpayers, I think it’s clear where they stand. Taking it further when some say that the top 2% pay 68% of the tax what their saying is that 68% of policy should favor 2% of the population. Before you think this is simple I offer that I have seen similar opinions in the Occupy movement, where “paying the bills” is camping out and if you haven’t maybe you shouldn’t be heard. I’m not saying the bills don’t have to be paid, as a matter of fact I don’t offer an answer just the question.
AMEN BUT or AND , I think all humans are hypocrites. The best ones are the ones that recognize their hypocrites and try to correct the situation to make it fair. The worst ones see the problem and use this human flaw to there advantage.
This is the second comment I’ve read this morning that ventures into the spiritual, maybe that says something about the group. I agree with your statement I might add that I feel that recognizing ones own failings (in my case many) and trying still to be a positive influence on the world around you is about the best any of us can do, and sadly many of us do much worst.
Haha didn't mean for it be spiritual. I don't believe in deity. But, I do see how it kinda was.
Discovering fundamental principles does indeed lead to answers to all related questions, which is why it is the goal of reason and science to discover such principles. In terms of liberal verses so-called "conservative," the basic question is fairness verses selfish greed. One leads to cooperation and justice, the other to dominance and injustice. Fairness is obviously a fundamental principle of a successful society. Three others are freedom, reason and opportunity. When anyone understands these four fundamental principles they naturally identify with being what is called liberal.
When your goal is equality, then you will eliminate liberty but when you goal is liberty you have the best chance for equality.
You can't have A & B tell C to take money from D.
The goal of equal opportunity is often confused with the goal of equal results. I feel that all American citizens be afforded a minimum standard of living that we can all be proud to call An American Standard of living. I feel that America is made stronger when all it’s citizens are given a chance to succeed, and I think our economic system should reward those who work hard and do well.
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I know it often seems this simple but the point I make about childern is vaild, remember if you reduce your "emeny" to simple evil you disarm yourself.
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Your welcome.
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Good general tip don't reply if you don't like post.
Your post is reasonable and illustrates the contention we all feel. It is funny when I talk to middle class people, they are gun ho on doing away with the estate tax, not knowing that the tax never even applied to their chump change. If you get a candidate to run on your proposals, I'll support him/her. Peace and good cheers!
Oh as far as a canidate goes, how about you?
Wow thank you so much for your kind words, I live in Glendale, mind if I send you my contact info over this email system?
You live right down the street. It is cool to know that I'm not the only one living in a red state that has Blue views. I am more purple than not though. Yes, I'd like to get to know your views more, you may.
The most fundamental principle. You are a human being. Every label that you hold on to distorts your vision. Remove the labels and be a human being. Only then can you see clearly.
To deign oneself is to deny reality, only through understanding can we see clearly, be not afraid of the tools we use they are only words.
You can't understand unless you see the undistorted truth first.
Truth itself is an illusion become the observer release the judgment and all walls become windows.
Truth exists, but can only be seen in all of its dimensions from every angle and from every time.
In time we see that even the tools we use become an enemy to understanding, as we restrict concepts that cannot be restricted, such as “truth” to the confines of a human made term. I think perhaps the work requires a certain period of individual efforts; it is because of our separation that we find the need to communicate. We therefore invent tools for this propose, and in time perhaps we find them to be inadequate and by this we learn humility. It is one theory anyway, not entirely my own.
None of these things -- none -- will occur unless people vote.
I couldn't agree more, please everyone look into your own heart, if we all vote how it tells us we will be OK.
Indeed! Individually we have the powers of our vote and of our purse. All we have to do is use these powers. Vote against any representative whose actions oppose our Bill of Rights, and boycott the products and services of any corporation that attempts to corrupt our government.
Though as far as "the purse" goes I understand times are tough no one should feel bad for doing what you need to, but if you can, check the vintage store for that bedroom set and framer's maket, I've been using cfl's since before they were cool, and saving for solar panel.
I dunno. Why am I a radical? As Bruce Springsteen said, "Mama told me not to stare into the sights of the sun, but mama, that's where all the fun is."
Ahhh the folly of youth, I too once lived my life with abandon, but I think we have to dig down a bit so that when challged we don't run out of answers they do. The beifit of this is people cann't hide from core beliefs but if you hit them with details they fall asleep and are sure your lying anyway.
I'm 68 years old. I've been active in social movements for nearly 50 years. I'm happy to be confused with someone much younger, but I'm as red as any kid I've ever met, even at OWS. I frankly think that what has gotten OWS as far as it has is its very radicalism and its refusal to capitulate to liberalism. The spectrum of politics that even pundits recognize in America is extremely narrow. I will acknowledge that there are very few radicals in America, but still we deserve to be recognized. I often take political polls and I resent it deeply when I have to make a forced choice between liberal and converservative. When then asked which I feel closer to my answer is still, neither.
now how cool is that?
Cool that your first, or do you think the idea is cool?
Good ideas.
I don't usually get too caught up in the fascination some experience on being first to a thread.
Therefore I must have been commenting on the content of the forum post - what specifically escapes me at the moment. I note there have been some minor emendations to the post since I replied?
I think it was my initial reaction to this:
Let's eat Zendog!
Let's eat, Zendog!
Commas save lives.
o . . kay
um -
I don't get it - but there was another comment, fish somewhere else just a minute ago - attempting to capitalize on some previously scripted behavior?
is that it?
What?
I had to read your post twice in order to understand it. I'm just trying to help you improve your writing skills. I'm not a poet, but I'm sure that, even in poetry, punctuation is important.
Therefore (comma) I must have been commenting on the content of the forum post - what (comma) specifically (comma) escapes me at the moment. I note there have been some minor emendations to the post since I replied?
Now, I'm at a loss. I don't understand your reference to "previously scripted behavior".
yeah-ya
I get lazy when typing in comment boxes.
as far as previously scripted behavior goes . . .
I like math it makes sense and there is a right answer, life is more muddy. Are you a reader of the Dalai Kama?
I've never heard of it - Sun and Lao Tzu are my principle avenues of enlightenment through Zen
Dalai Lama opps sorry about that, I've been reading Eckhart Tolle and the Dalai Lama mostly haven't ventured into the older texts much yet, unless you count Pirsig
The Art of War is a fascinating book.
I have it and have got pick it up, you know life and all it is my next read, or Deepak's "Budda"
How dit it come to this? Drain the welt on the soul of America of the human formed PUSS, and we will slowly recoup our balance. Demand the prosecution of the Atlanta VA loan guarantee officer! Who is his 'lawyer'? That answer may be the key to the box from hell! Demand prosecution. Redeem America. There is far more to this case then meets the eye. It is like NO other. IMHO. http://4closurefraud.org/2011/10/05/unsealed-complaint-wells-fargo-bank-of-america-j-p-morgan-chase-and-gmac-mortgage-engaged-in-a-brazen-scheme-to-defraud-our-nations-veterans/
Thank you for the comment but I am not sure that it is on point.
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Thank you these look good I will have to take the time to watch them both.
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I thought I would reboot this. it's just my profile but it's been awhile since put it up.
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Conservatives believe the system was ever good at some point, liberals believe the system can somehow be made better in a durable way.
I believe neither.
Thank you for your comment, and I do understand, but here’s the problem with statements of this sort: “the system” is in effect the American government, and the government is an expression the people’s will, (I know many would disagree but in the end we get the government we deserve, we just need to work harder to deserve better) if we don’t mind the business of government, first off someone will, and second it won’t stop large powerful forces from raising up over which the people have no control. I have met people who live “off the grid” and I admire that it takes a certain kind of person. In the late 1770’s the nation had those who looked west to be left alone and those who looked east at the political ties and wanted to “be left alone” so we could make our own country, and I think we still are.
I'm also not a nationalist.
I understand that temptation, still our fate depends on our actions since we are alive, inaction becomes action so it is always a choice of what effect, not whether to affect.
"As a parent I will do anything within my power to advantage my child."
So, you would kill to advantage your child?
It depends on the circumstance. If the advantage was preventing my child from death then yes. I am a life long progressive , but I also have plenty of guns and know how to use them. If there was a person raping or trying to hurt my children or wife I would have no problem providing the "advantage".
That is a little more than just providing an advantage.
depends how you look at it I guess.
I would kill to protect my child directly.
We all "kill" to advantage our children every time we buy a video game instead of sending the money where it would do more good.
My point was more along the line that if given the opportunity I might very well leave more money to my child than I honestly thought they could put to best use just because they were my child. Warren Buffett has made a different choice but he is the exception, so as a parent I would support someone who would cut my taxes (leaving me with more money) then borrow that extra money from me and pay me interest forever and my children, (even though this is bad for the country) but as a citizen I would support someone who would levy the tax instead of borrowing the money this is not so good for my children but better for the country so this was my general point, we need more citizens thinking about the country not just about themselves and their trust funds.
I think you will do more good for your children and your country if you are allowed to keep more of the money you earn. I believe that the government can do more damage to our country by depriving you and your children of the money you earn.
I think government is an alligator and we are stuck in a tank with the alligator. I think those who push for more taxation of "the rich" are suggesting that the fat people in the tank can afford to let the alligator eat some of them to protect themselves from being eaten by the gator. Sooner or later, the alligator will have exhausted the fat people and will eventually go after you.
Yes, that is the hope that in the long run we will ALL pay our fair share. Obesity is bad for your health! I am more then willing to chip in to make sure that the commons are fully funded. Education is good, passable roads are good, the fire department having the funding to put a fire out is good, clean air and water are good......
Your problem is you don't see the "alligator" is the Walmart family, and how is the government letting you "keep what you earn" (BTW I wish my bank would) if they just borrow it back as soon as they "let you keep it".
The problem is that you don't understand that "the Walmart family" is in the tank with us and they are the fat people who you think we can use to feed the alligator.
OK I can see your getting lost here, let’s try this do you really believe that monarchs once ruled all people, and still rule many because people believe some guy in the sky will punish them if they oppose the King?
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Why am I a Liberal? is the same as "Why am I retarded"?
Uncalled for and shameful
I don't know; why are you retarded?
I find it appalling that even alleged liberals would suggest that any person living at or under the poverty line, should be taxed at all. Not even sales or property tax. And fwiw, the first bracket starting at 8000 bucks/year is hardly in line with not taxing impoverished persons.
On the other hand, I don't think impoverished persons should procreate either.
Did you know that all taxes are passed down to the end user, the consumer? Even that loaf of bread that is supposedly tax free, has hidden in it's price every tax paid by the companies involved in it's manufacture, distribution, and sales. In addition to the flour and other ingredients, when that poor person buys a loaf of bread, he also partially pays the CEO's salary, his company car, his pension, his bonus, his health insurance, his vacation, and his retirement. Even the property tax his landlord pays is passed down to poor person in the form of higher rent. To think the poor don't pay taxes really shows a complete lack of understanding. Both economically and on a human level as well.
"I find it appalling that even alleged liberals would suggest that any person living at or under the poverty line, should be taxed at all."
Now reread what I actually typed and understand I've only been accused of being "liberal" one time in my life, however, I'm reasonable and fair. I also know how taxes work so I'll pass on the patronizing lecture about how stupid I am as well.
Thanks anyhow.
It looks like I misread your post about your view on taxing the poor, as well as the part about the impoverished procreating was in jest. Please forgive my error. I would never call anyone that thought the poor should be taxed fairly, liberal. I would call them just. Tell me honestly, did you already understand how taxes are passed down? Few people do. Even the most intelligent.
And also, I still find it appalling that the first bracket starts at a wage far beneath that of which it takes to even think about having a chance of providing oneself with the necessities of life, and those persons should not be taxed at all, even if it means having a discount/exempt type card.
Having passed along the cost to clients for as long as I've owned businesses, of course I understand. I also understand that all are taxed with our manipulated dollar values which seems to be tied to an agenda of those who care not making our laws, extracting the wealth of all the 401k's etc, of which they haven't cleaned out, yet.
I wasn't jesting about impoverished people not procreating. It' a poor and controllable choice. Just as I am certain about this, I am equally certain that many impoverished in other ways, other than financially, should also not procreate.
It isn't "master race" crap, it's more along the lines of we do have a population bubble certain to pop and reasonable thinking should prevail.
I also am certain that persons who are not "reasonable" to a certain standard truly shouldn't have a say/vote in a government by and for the people. Some may deem these views as a means for a whole nation not to be boot strapped down and hindered by the less adroit majority.
So who decides which people are not "reasonable" to vote?
Do you know our nation's history and how a person proved "reasonable", as mentioned many times in our Constitution? Who isn't the the root question. The real question is why was it discontinued and you may be interested in knowing how a person originally proved reasonable.
the concept is a thing of beauty, government for the people and by the people with a bar set to limit the bounds of the union, originally anyhow, set to not exceed the comprehension of a reasonable person, and therefore, reasonable persons should be rightfully subject to any agreements between the states.
It's far removed from this concept now.
How did a person originally prove reasonable. Where in the constitution is that stated?
The term "reasonable man" (which I have no objection to being changed to "reasonable man or woman regardless of skin color) is mentioned many times throughout the Constitution. The ability to read, write, and prove able comprehend the Constitution sound plausible?
http://www.barefootsworld.net/consti16.html
Try this test.
"reasonable man" is not mentioned in the constitution that I can find. What article, section, or amendment are you referring to?
must be the chinese version
A reasonable man would admit his mistake and move forward. It's better to lose an argument and learn the truth than to win an argument and believe a lie.
Well it's about time somebody on this forum actually read it. Don't you think it's reasonable that there should be a bar in order to vote as well as the restoration of the deceptively omitted original 13th with a bit more specific language?
That constitution site sure has a lot of interesting info. Thanks for the link. Just curious, what would your 28th amendment be?
The original 13th amendment but with a bit more specific language preventing any non-regular people from holding public office. Notice Lincoln was a lawyer and that very amendment would have prevented him from being president, or even holding his congressional seat. Get the experts and play for pay whores out of DC. Establish reasonable bars, make representatives directly accountable for every vote on every piece of legislation passed. No more, 'my constituents want this but I know better" garbage.
I dunno, I'll have some coffee and think about it some more.
No bar. What is the deceptively omitted original 13th?
So you think that a certified crazy person or mental retard should have the right to vote? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of government by the people being effective or reasonable, or should inepts merely sell their votes?
The whole original amendment. Cleverly done to by those who made lots of ching in the process.
http://www.amendment-13.org/index.html
http://www.barefootsworld.net/real13th.html
http://www.barefootsworld.net/13table.html
http://www.barefootsworld.net/lincoln13th.html
Would you tie there tubes at a certain level of poverty?
Feed them impotence drugs?
Who would pay for this in your world?
*yawn zzzzzzz
I'd even go for a flat tax if they would just let you have the first $50,000 to live on,
I bet.
Liberals are the disease of America. People forgot how terrible Carter was then they voted in Commando Odumbo, in which is 100 times worse than Carter. This assClown needs to go in 2012
And who was the last American President who did not start a war?
I noticed you skiped Clinton, yeah best you forget about him. Oh did you know that in 2001 we were 10 years away from paying off the debt entirly, then there was Bush.
Now thanks to Obummer we will never pay it off. This dirt bag has spent more than any other Pres and is still doing it
What????
No glowing praise of the republicans?
You have a very large memory hole.
At least 20 years just fell in it.
So you blame the doctor when you get sick?
not quite sure what you are trying to say??
I'm not surprised.
You seem intelligent, and you write well. However, your decision to choose the Democratic Party seems based on pretty flimsy criteria. Your only argument appears to be the need to restrict inheritance. Certainly, there are other pressing issues that have a dramatic effect on society.
I am a Republican largely because I believe in smaller government and personal responsibility. However, I must admit, I have lost most of my trust in ALL of our elected officials.
I don't mean to pick on you, but another question is this. If the Republicans want smaller government, why do they not complain about the 2 million people we have in prison? I believe it’s because people are mostly in prison for interference with other people’s property rights and Republicans are fine with big government that is in place to protect large property holdings. This is in keeping with their main propose of protecting the fortunes of the wealthy and this is why the “small government “ people don’t complain about lots of people in prison, but I’m open to other ideas on why this is.
The desire of parents to secure their children’s future is not at all flimsy and it is that desire that destroys nations historically (regardless of their form of government) it is upon the raising and falling fortunes of Great Families that determine the Nation’s well being sometimes they are the King sometimes the Merchants. If America is to be an ongoing concern we must strike a balance between opportunity and birthright, If we continue to focus our public policy mostly on securing the fortunes of the fortunate, we will fall victim to the weakness of inherited power.
As far as how I came to be a liberal, I watched a lot of CSPAN in the early 80’s when it first started, loved to watch the sausage being made. What I would do is I would read each proposed amendment and decide for myself if I thought it was a good idea. Then I watched how the votes went, and what I found was that over and over I agreed with the majority of the Dems. It took some time but it really showed me how consistently the GOP just supported whatever was in the interest of the wealthy, that has never changed.
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Too hard to do? Not sure.
But WE can do what 83% of Americans have already "voted" for
Are you ready
.....................FOR ACTION
Are you ready to
.....................DO SOMETHING REAL ?
Are you ready to
......................join 83% ........ of Americans ?
We must not
DEMAND that we WANT THEM.to give to US
We must
DEMAND GOALS THAT WE WILL ACHIEVE FOR OURSELVES
Because of the Supreme Court's decision,
we cannot accomplish anything significant, without FIRST -
Overturning Citizens United !!!
Ending Corporate Personhood !!!
83% of Americans already agree on it
as stated in the ABC/Washington Post poll
In the the PFAW Poll -
Wanna take your family on vacation?
Convince the 7 year old and the 10 year old to go to Mt Rushmore.
Then try to convince them to go to Disneyland.
Prioritizing this goal will introduce us to the world – not as a bunch of hippie radical anarchist socialist commie rabblerousers – but as a responsible, mature movement that is fighting for what America wants.
IT IS TIME FOR YOU TO ACT ----> JOIN US TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE
I feel that using the tactics of the NRA, the AARP an the TP – who all represent a minority – who have successfully used their voting power to achieve their minority goals - plus the Prohibition Amendment tactics – bringing all sides together - is a straight path for us to success that cannot fail to enable us to create and complete one task the MAJORITY.
Join the OWS Restore Democracy Working Group at
..............http://www.nycga.net/groups/restore-democracy
regular meetings 6-8PM @ 60 Wall St – The Attrium @ Wednesdays
Plan details with supporting documentation at:.... http://bit.ly/vK2pGI
IT IS TIME FOR YOU TO ACT ----> JOIN US TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE
TO END CORPORATE PERSONHOOD
Whereas --
The OWS Declaration of the Occupation of New York City states that
"a democratic government derives its just power from the people,
not from corporations."
and --
the ABC News/Washington Post poll found that 83% of the entire US population
opposes the Supreme Court Citizens United decision,
which affirmed that corporations are people.
and --
by supporting the overturning of corporate personhood,
OWS clearly aligns itself with the vast majority of the American people
who support ending the fundamentally flawed and anti-democratic concept
that corporations are people.
therefore --
We support a constitutional amendment to end corporate personhood.
The Republicans seem to be doing everything they can to make America into a Sham Democracy.
Keeping people from voting is not what I served in the military to protect.
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/opinionla/la-ed-holder-20111227,0,4629030.story
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/27/opinion/keeping-college-students-from-the-polls.html?ref=opinion
http://investmentwatchblog.com/96-year-old-tennessee-woman-a-lifelong-voter-denied-free-photo-id-required-under-new-law/
This last website is particularly egregious. A 96 year old woman (black) who had voted in nearly every election since the 1930s was being prevented from voting in Tennessee.
Stop Sham Democracies.
A rather long post with it's own agnda, but on point and I agree with the cause, I hope we can get this done.
Ben's dad are you still with us?
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Simply complain on blogs like this one and be accused of loitering rather than occupying or Join a growing movement and return here to lead others to water!
Footnote: I've sent this to Occupy Amsterdam, Boston, Austin, Seattle, College, Wall Street, Italy,etc. With no response even after offering a webinar to show how this would be HIGHLY profitable for those presented to and create wealth that a conventional job is not designed to do. A residual income opportunity would clear the Corporate Stables of the Cattle that await slaughter through out sourcing and allow ppl to spend more time with their families while their wealth builds 24hrs a day everyday. If you agree with this tactic Please Contact your local "Occupy movement" or Occupy Colleges @(323)642-8102 and tell them to use their energies efficaciously rather than redundantly and ask them to contact Charles Burns...they have my number :)
This really looks like spam
Not Spam. It's a workable solution and plan to create real wealth and combat big business with what they respect, innovation. This would look like spam to those who only want to walk and chant as opposed to taking tangible action to change their lives without Wall Street. Combat Wall Street by leaving it deserted! If all worked from home and left Wall St scouring for personnel you would have won this Occupy Conflict. But if this is all only about exercising "having a voice" without any real means of actual impact with ANSWER$ for suffering families then I have overestimated this movement and in doing so have wasted my time with it. As a proof!!!! I'M AM GETTING PAID as a result of THIS (ceburns.mymonavie.com) and being proactive to take advantage of the opportunity instead of waiting for the next government program to arrive to create another J.O.B. (Just Over Broke) for me. Real Wealth and Real Health Results. 166 millionaires from this company and counting!!! What decision to take charge of you and your family's future will you decide? BE PROACTIVE and Respond instead of continuing to live REACTIONARY as the rest of the cattle-like population. Whether you JOIN now to have a business write-off in the coming tax year or JOIN in the beginning of Next year to do something NEW for the New Year, Just JOIN for you and your family's new beginning....Or just Ignore it and keep getting what you been getting living at the mercy of someone else to determine your job security and standard of living. [Instructions: Click JOIN and enter information to become a 1099 Independent distributor. Make an initial order of 500 point volume (for product to share with friends{sharp people looking for an opportunity who have the ability to take advantage of the opportunity}. Enroll on "Autoship"{remaining active makes you eligible for commissions}. Personally Sponsor One person for your right team and One person for your left team and then help/encourage each of them to duplicate the same action. Drink it. Feel it. Share it and watch the wealth build residually for you and your family]
Liberalism = mental disorder.
See, and I was thinking it was simply a head injury. LOL.
Help me out here, what exactly were you thinking?