Forum Post: Here's How To Take The Country Back. Step By Step.
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 22, 2011, 3:02 p.m. EST by fwankie123
(490)
from Immokalee, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Article V of the Constitution provides for a Constitutional Convention when the needs and desires of the states and populace are not being met, and specifically when the federal branch of government is the source of the problem.
- Rally around a constitutional amendment to get money out of politics and get it passed into law,
"No person, corporation or business entity of any type, domestic or foreign, shall be allowed to contribute money, directly or indirectly, to any candidate for Federal office or to contribute money on behalf of or opposed to any type of campaign for Federal office. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, campaign contributions to candidates for Federal office shall not constitute speech of any kind as guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution or any amendment to the U. S. Constitution. Congress shall set forth a federal holiday for the purposes of voting for candidates for Federal office."
Get a law passed for total public campaign financing to all federal candidates who obtain sufficient petition signatures and/or votes to get on the ballot and participate in the primaries and/or electoral process.
Require new FCC regulations granting free air time to all federal candidates for elected office.
Get a law passed that bans politicians from becoming lobbyists for 10 years after they leave office.
Get a law passed where members of the United States House of Representatives shall be limited to serving no more than four two-year terms in their lifetime. Members of the United States Senate shall be limited to serving no more than two six-year terms in their lifetime.
Adopt California's Proposition 20 nationwide and end gerrymandering by politicians and turn the drawing of congressional districts over to citizen committees.
Create a fair and progressive tax code. The marginal tax rate ought to be raised to 50 percent on income between $500,000 and $5 million, 60 percent on income between $5 million and $15 million, and 70 percent on income over $15 million. There should be a 2 percent annual surtax on all fortunes over $7 million. Eliminate loopholes in the federal tax code, unfair tax breaks, exemptions and deductions, subsidies (e.g. oil, gas and farm) and end all tax havens. Taxing financial transactions at one percent would raise $400 billion a year in revenue alone.
End too big to fail. Break up the biggest banks. Ban derivatives trading. Immediate reenactment of the Glass-Steagall Act.
Leave Afghanistan immediately. Reduce the military budget by half.
Medicare For All. Allow Medicare to purchase drugs directly. Give MEDPAC greater authority to drive down medical costs.
Keep Social Security solvent for generations by raising the ceiling on income subject to the Social Security tax to $200,000. Currently, $106,800.
Create a federal government/business "Manhattan Project" to develop clean energy.
To increase opportunity and upward social mobility for future generations offer free public education through 6 years of college.
In the short term, to get demand back into the economy, we need a new government sponsored WPA and CCC to create millions of jobs rebuilding America so business can start investing and hiring again.
Those are very good ideas. I am hoping when this comes to a head many of them will be put in to place.
Look how simple most of it is. When our government starts puttig the citizens interest before the big corporations It looks pretty simple
Look at what we all have been saying about illegals (I have nothing against them, they are just trying to make a better life) my problem is they are being exploited as cheap labor and undermining us for our jobs. Neither party does anything about it. The result is our government is allowing insourcing of our jobs. This is just one of example of the government not taking care of the citizens. The could legalize them, but there’s that Left/right media promoted division that creates the acceptability of not doing anything. This is just one example of them not doing their job
America requires a complete restructure of its entire system. All of the law books need to go into the trash and begin a new rules and regulations book that require sane, rational people to write it. Band all lobbyists, rewrite the tax code system, get rid of the greed and corruption of health insurance carriers, public audit of all financial records of State and Federal government, make all police officers obey the oath to serve and protect its citizens since they have forgotten this oath, Revamp the criminal code system and get the corruption away from lawyers and judges that justify their existance by their own selfish, profitable agenda, A committee on how to rebuild America with new ideas in manufacturing so we can get out of dept, and the list goes on. This is in addition to what everybody else here wants in changes.
try reading my 13 points again. Once you have a constitutional amendment to get money out of politics passed into law and the federal government starts putting the citizens interests before the big corporations, change can become dramatic as I have suggested in my 13 points.
I agree with your points but why stop there when there is so many more issues that require a solution too.
Barb, Thanks! Check out Green Justice: Rehabbing the Law (a section of the Greenbook: Sustainability Solutions & Resources) at > http://mm-greenbook.blogspot.com < I look forward to dialogue. M > michael.monterey @ gmail.com
1 is #1. Then "WE" take care of all the rest.
agree!!
“TOCSFAE” IS TOXIC TO THE BANKERS
Your plan is a tall order and will be hard to pass all of them, why don't you get back up something to strengthen those steps a barrier 'Tocsfae' does this
Your not alone.
From the beginning when our country was formed we face many challenges and many opposing views
Just like today however, the peoples voices have been silence by special interest groups as well as the over whelming power grab by the bankers. Your demands/petitions will never be heard or taken seriously unless lobbyist/corporate have bless it for greedy reasons or Co-Opt it.
It is time for a fair hearing!
Wouldn’t it be great if you can be heard, fairly and equally? Wouldn’t it be worth your time to know there is a petition list, worth signing rather then getting involved in so many other worthy causes? Can be a drain, especially knowing many of lists of issues will mostly not be look at or simply be voted downed.
It can also be time consuming.
This is were the 7’step plan an ever growing list known as the “TOCS FAE” doctrine helps just about every cause, the cause that helps almost all other causes should be supported. These step plans, solves many of the roots of all our problems we face.Whether you have protested at the gas pump or you are an Occupier and Tea Partier, for that matter any protest mover, make your protest have meaning, give it the teeth it needs beyond the gas pump and over the protest lines.
This petition will be a notification to congress of things yet to come and to properly prepare.
As of January 2012 we the people
We will not take the abuse anymore and neither should they walk around with there heads in the sand.
We will begin the process of phase one
Your petition will go to congress, informing them you support The “TOCS FAE” Doctrine and so should they, by making preparations for receiving and forwarding income Tax mail. Your petition will also go to the top corporations letting them know of our intentions and they too should support and act by sending their taxes directly to congress. They should also be informed if our demands are not met protests will be under way the likes they have never seen.
After this is achieved and we have broken the back of a few select Corporations we will move on to Step1 Taxes which may take months or up to a year
Step1) Send your TAXES to a trusted congressman or congresswoman which maybe hard to find in your state. Make a Petition with your neighbors. Phone, email, fax your congress your list and intentions. Prepare your taxes, made out to the I.R.S check and envelope, and a stamp. Fit it in inside of a bigger envelope, onto which you should write congress address, preferably your state congress.
Example
Washington, DC 203 Cannon House Office Building Washington, DC 20515 Phone Number: (202) 225-2831 Have congress unwrap the envelopes, state you want your taxes to be mailed to the I.R.S
If you are asking yourself, what will this achieve first it can be used as a bargain chip however, congress cannot spend it or over take the fed reserve and banks system over night, nonetheless this will indeed give teeth/meat, back to congress. You should include a sign return receipt so as to show proof you paid your taxes.
For the rest Click http://inkrumguardians.webs.com/
Occupy funny pix http://inkrumguardians.webs.com/apps/blog/
If you are interested in expressing this message to Occupy General Assembly you should present the "TOCFAE" Doctrine in David Ferola's name, and claim you are him, for solidarity purpose.
That includes woman and children
Fail. Why give the government more control? Why give them more money? Any ideas that are based on either of these two premises are epic fails.
This is good brainstorming.
thanks. Once you have a constitutional amendment to get money out of politics passed into law and the federal government starts putting the citizens interests before the big corporations, change can become dramatic as I have suggested in my 14 points.
fwankie123 Please reprint this post over on the companion forum http://www.themultitude.org/forum/ in the 'Reform' section so we can debate it with better tools? Thanks.
i sent it over under "radical ideas for radical times" you can also go to www.getmoneyout.com
Whooo! Great thread, but really, we need a separate "forum" for transitioning from brainstorming to dialogue on R&D + fine tuning the MOST Formula (Mission, Objectives, Strategy & Tactics) for effective planning & implementation ASAP. I suggest a Facebook group and Google+ which allows more tightly focused subgroups & live video conferencing. Once we get more focused we might want a dedicated social network (via Ning or whatever) & a website as well. What seems best to y'all?
Once you have a constitutional amendment to get money out of politics passed into law and the federal government starts putting the citizens interests before the big corporations, change can become dramatic as I have suggested in my 13 points.
Bullseye!
spread the word
UM: Thanks for reposting these suggestions, but let's start a Google+ circle & hangout for R&D of effective (coherent & well focused) objectives, strategy, tactics & logistics for implementation ASAP. OK?
we have an opportunity to change the government system
let's introduce and more fluid voting system
that can run issues more than every two years
i don't understand what you are saying
we have an opportunity to change the government system
.
we could create
a more fluid voting system
by publicly voting with our names on the internet.
Anyone would be able to verify the vote.
If such a system could sway public opinion,
people will join to represent themselves.
14). Run for Office. Get elected. Career politicians will not do this for you. Buck the system. Run for office. Be the change.
Just focus on #1, that will be the greatest political achievement in decades. Keep it simple and push for #1. The rest will follow!
This is the answer for #OWS
1 Rally around a constitutional amendment to get money out of politics and get it passed into law!
Glen - spread the word
Step by step--things we can politically get done now, while the more radical stuff comes in the distant future.
Once you get the constitutional amendment passed, the rest is easy!
Getting money out of elections may be the first step.
getting the constitutional amendment to get money out of federal elections passed is the first step
I have seen this on the Multitudes website and I think this is a brilliant draft!
thanks. spread the word
Hey, Fwankie from Immokalee, what have you done for the slave workers in the Immokalee tomato fields lately? How about "occupying the fields" - no wait, don't do that, because there's no Starbucks there.
I refuse to "occupy" anywhere that doesn't have a Starbucks near by!
Even up the wealth of the nation. Better yet, the world. Everyone can have the same opportunity, the same starting point, Everyone can work to their ability/desire, without having been hampered at the start. But what about my neighbour? She has four kids, i only have three to raise. Does that mean she gets more than me? The older bloke up the road has asthma, he needs his medication. I suppose that means he should get a little more. Sharon's oldest son is quadraplegic, so she needs probably more again. Dispensing the wealth of the nation is becoming complicated, and that's only in this culdesac. We will need someone to administer this wealth, that we'll accumulate by taking it off the rich. I think that should be my job. I will be fair and even. I know what is right and wrong. I can handle the responsibility of massive amounts of money, even though I've never actually earned any myself. I can imagine what it will be like. That's all the experience I need. Spread it out. That's the first and most important. Doesn't matter what you have done to earn it. There's enough to go round. You can sit in front of your computer watching porn. You can drink yourself to a stupor every morning. You can smoke dope till your eyes bleed. You can study at uni till you're fifty years old. You can all have the same amount. It's fair. Occupy Wall Street What a JOKE! You think you're revolutionaries, The ideal you seek is Communism. You think you can do it right? What happens when a centralised agency has to administer the wealth of the nation? Ask Russians how that worked for them. The only fair way is CAPITALISM Trade takes two parties, one to provide one to want what is being provided. Earn what you get If you want more Earn it.
I think the + one of good ideas is real.
I think that injustice is why people are protesting. The time it takes to change and create laws diminishes the usefulness of the list until after a change of power to legislate them occurs. I doubt if our three branches of goverment can be divorced from its shadow goverment of greed, unless the current crooks are punished, and restitution paid, using current laws. The general assembly should focus upon its ability to facilitate and maintain street protests. All of your steps require justice. OWS is demanding justice. It is demanding and receiving acknowledgement by the public. It is becoming clearer each march that freedom of protest is at question. Hopefully the freedom to protest step will be navigated, giving the public courage that goverment is not more powerful than its people. Common sense would be that voters would use reliable information about who's working for crooks, and not join their camps. Common sense would be to vote against the ones using big money to win their offices. Thanks for the soap box.
Way too much taxation in number 6. The spreading of wealth is not a function of government. There are some millionaires who really worked hard and honestly to get to where they are and it is immature to take their money away because we are jealous of their success. Everyone should be treated equally. If you want success, you need to work for it just as they did. However, I believe there is a difference between an honest worker that made a fortune and one that takes advantage of others to get his way, as the banks and Wall Street have done with us. Punish them for stealing our money but do not put all successful people in a single bucket. I am not rich myself but when I see an honest person with a good idea get rich, I am glad for them because one day after I've work hard and succeed honestly, I do not want others getting jealous of my success either. That is part of the American dream, isn't it? It also does not make sense to give more money to an institution that obviously cannot spend it wisely. Why should I support a system that takes my hard-earned money away in taxes and gives it to a few bankers who made poor decisions or funds military projects designed only to make corporate wallets thicker? When I can't afford to pay for a decent meal because my salary is so damn low, I have to settle for the cheap crap. I don't wear designer clothes and ride a bike to work because I cannot afford anything else. The government needs to learn this lesson too. If it can't afford it, then it shouldn't buy it and taking out loans is not an option. We cannot live beyond our means. Sometimes it is very difficult but it's better to be free from debt than to be enslaved to a system that does not have our interests in mind anyway. First clean up the government, stop wasting taxpayer's money, especially with the exuberant military presence worldwide, and return to the greenback (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swkq2E8mswI) and not the gold standard. I do not want to give my money away to someone who hasn't worked as hard for it as I did because he or she will not respect it as much as I would. That's why we need a small government that protects our individual rights and whose function does not extend much beyond that. Anything else costs more money. If the politicians worked hard to earn the money they spend in government, they would be much more careful about where it goes. Easy come, easy go and the little guy like me gets the shaft.
Make the Government responsive to the people (rather than business and the wealthy) and the rest will follow.
yea, but how do you do it?
http://www.themultitude.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=100&p=446&hilit=constitutional+convention#p446
this is what i am talking about!
Sounds good; every once in a while there's a post that actually makes sense. These are things that most people can agree with.
Thanks. This is what REAL change looks like.
I'd be careful of allowing the focus of the movement to drift. Remember, it began with Wall Street. Let fix THAT!
This is what REAL change looks like. Let's be clear, it "began" when the federal government began deregulating Wall Street.
I really can't come up with an argument for any of these aside from the fact that OWS should not have a large list of demands that come about.
However if I had the choice this list is fine.
I don't think of these ideas as demands. This is what REAL change looks like.
Y'all might enjoy considering some of the possibilities for upgrading government in the "Gandhi Mandates" & "Global Policy Imperatives" & "Greening Government" sections of The Greenbook.
Ration marriage licenses and stipulate that 25% must be for inter-racial unions.
Lots of good ideas fwankie. 1 thru 5 are on point for the "get money out of politics" agenda, start there. The remaining items stray away from that focus and probably should be pursued separately.
Thanks. This is what REAL change looks like.
great, and let's add this:
Here's how we can easily Reform Wall Street: Take away their powers "once again." And a Million People March to Capitol Hill will help get it done!
For example, "We are here Congress because we want to REINSTATE the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/071603.asp#axzz1aPEc3wX which helped saved our country from the Great Depression by preventing investment companies, banks, and insurance companies from merging and becoming large brokerage firms; instead of just being Banks and Insurance companies--Congress why can't you learn a history lesson from 1929? Btw, why did most of you vote for its final repeal in 1999? http://www.counterpunch.org/2008/09/19/shattering-the-glass-steagall-act (2nd story here)
Think about where we are now, it all started in 1999 with lawmakers like Senator Phil Gramm who helped create legal gambling casinos for our banks: CNN's The Ten Most Responsible for Economy Collapse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKQOxr2wBZQ&feature=related
Furthermore, we also want you to CHANGE the Commodities Future Modernization Act of 2000 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000 BACK to where it was before 2000, which since has deregulated energy markets and consequently allowed for such scams as The Enron Loophole; whereas in the early 2000's Enron Corp. was charging 250 bucks plus for a kilowatt hour...They all when to jail for this. But, the Enron loophole is still not closed, for example, allowing speculators to resell barrels of oil over and over again before it reaches the gas station owner. It's basically legal gambling at our expense. What were those lawmakers thinking then? What are you thinking now? Either do the right think, or you're part of the 1%."
Why are oil prices high? The Enron Loophole. Former head of U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission speaks to Congress on the high price of oil--and he's not happy about energy deregulations.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbdtTGYQBMU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNp0y0SjOkY&feature=related
Rolling Stones Reporter: Truth about Goldman Sachs--how they have cornered the markets--basically, The Enron Loophole and the Repeal of Glass-Steagall Act in 1999. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waL5UxScgUw
Let's get focused and bring back Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, they got it right 1933, we don't need to REINVENT the wheel because bringing this Act back will create an even playing field once again....and let's finally Close the Enron Loophole, which allowed Enron to charge what they wanted for energy; they went to jail for this; but no one closed the loophole, why? Re-election Monies from the banks and oil companies! The writing is on the wall.
I think you neither understand the issues nor see the major flaws in this plan... and they are HUGE!
name a flaw in this plan!
In all honesty I reread it, as opposed to skimming, and agree with a lot of it. Do you know how insurance works? Do you know what happens when you insure everyone? Do you know what happens when you offer free pub education? Or you allow the Gov to run a sector of the market?
the U.S. spends 17% of GDP on health and covers about 80% of the people with insurance. France - that's in Europe - spends under 12% of GDP on health and covers EVERYONE! You need to move out of Texas.
I would like to see what the gpd per capita is. The issue here is this: historically when the gov enters a sector they drive prices up and quality down. The reason healthcare is so high is we are lacking a means of price discovery. Insurance companies and gov subsidizes hinder competition. I dont want free health care! I want income. I want to choose my insurer.
spoken like a true texan!
This isnt a matter of being a texan. Ive lived in 6 states, been to 25, Ive been homeless, poor, without food, without healthcare, I have a 3 year old son and dont really know how Im going to care for him... etc ... That is not my issue. My issue is bureaucracy siphoning my income! Im going to ask you again do you understand how insurance works? Do you understand the issues with gov run agencies? Have you even researched why insurance is so high?
one thing i don't think you fully comprehend is that the 2 most popular programs in the federal govt are medicare and social security. Why do you think that is? It is because they are very effective and efficient. Not only that but medicare and SS are not for profit. This should help explain why France has a superior health care system to our own and much CHEAPER!
No they are not effective. I know Dr's that wont even take state run insurance because they are completely ineffective! Look let me explain this. I want you to research the price of lasik eye surgery before insurance covered it. The price dropped yearly and as new and innovative methods came about it dropped even more, same thing with cosmetic surgery! The reason insurance is so high is gov subsidies and the fact that we are over insured. The price of goods ans servises naturally moves toward the price of production. Hoever, insurance has created an ethical hazord, no one cares how much it cost because someone else is paying.
medicare and ss are federal programs, not state run.
Look Ive had Medicare. Matter of fact it took me 6 months fighting with the state to get them to terminate my coverage. Its state run, federally funded. As for SS, I dont know. However you are correct in saying its federally funded.
eliminate fee for service
Do you not see the beauty in competition? the one who offers the better goods and services wins out. The progressive tax you mentioned would fix a lot of the issues we are currently facing, although I dont think its strict enough.
EDIT W/o competition services naturally become worse to increase profit margins.
Why would you want to do thins? Here is an example: in 1979 since the department of education took over, we have seen an increase in cost and a decrease in quality. Why would we want to take a bad issue and make it worse?
EDIT Let me explain some of the issue you may have with the "for profit" universities. The issue was this 1) The Fed held interest rates low (to incentivise borrowing) and 2) the Gov secured the loans (to incentivise lending). In addition to that when a university decides to take federal subsidies they are subject to more regulations raising the cost of production. This is just the begining of the problem.
Really good points. Keep it up! Now we need some same minded people to get together and improve on our demands.
Some refinements,
How To Create A Better America. A New Vision For OWS!
Article V of the Constitution provdies for a Constitutional Convention when the needs and desires of the states and populace are not being met, and specifically when the federal branch of government is the source of the problem.
"No person, corporation or business entity of any type, domestic or foreign, shall be allowed to contribute money, directly or indirectly, to any candidate for Federal office or to contribute money on behalf of or opposed to any type of campaign for Federal office. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, campaign contributions to candidates for Federal office shall not constitute speech of any kind as guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution or any amendment to the U. S. Constitution. Congress shall set forth a federal holiday for the purposes of voting for candidates for Federal office."
(Article V of the Constitution provdies for a Constitutional Convention when the needs and desires of the states and populace are not being met, and specifically when the federal branch of government is the source of the problem).
Get a law passed for total public campaign financing to all federal candidates who obtain sufficient petition signatures and/or votes to get on the ballot and participate in the primaries and/or electoral process.
Require new FCC regulations granting free air time to all federal candidates for elected office.
Get a law passed where members of the United States House of Representatives shall be limited to serving no more than four two-year terms in their lifetime. Members of the United States Senate shall be limited to serving no more than two six-year terms in their lifetime.
Get a law passed that bans politicians from becoming lobbyists for 10 years after they leave office.
Adopt California's Proposition 20 nationwide and end gerrymandering by politicians and turn the drawing of congressional districts over to citizen committees.
Create a fair and progressive tax code. The marginal tax rate ought to be raised to 50 percent on income between $500,000 and $5 million, 60 percent on income between $5 million and $15 million, and 70 percent on income over $15 million. There should be a 2 percent annual surtax on all fortunes over $7 million. Eliminate loopholes in the federal tax code, unfair tax breaks, exemptions and deductions, subsidies (e.g. oil, gas and farm) and end all tax havens. Taxing financial transactions at one percent raises $400 billion a year in revenue alone.
End too big to fail. Break up the biggest banks. Ban derivatives trading. Immediate reenactment of the Glass-Steagall Act.
Leave Afghanistan immediately. Reduce the military budget by half.
Medicare For All. Allow Medicare to purchase drugs directly. Give MEDPAC greater authority to drive down medical costs.
Create a federal government/business "Manhattan Project" to develop clean energy.
Keep Social Security solvent for generations by raising the ceiling on income subject to the Social Security tax to $200,000. Currently, $106,800.
To increase opportunity and upward social mobility for future generations offer free public education through 6 years of college.
To get demand back into the economy, we need a new government sponsored WPA and CCC to create millions of jobs rebuilding America so business can start investing and hiring again.
Very good. I will spread this as much as I can.
The 12 points have merits but require top down change. Trouble is the top, as we know, is controlled by the corpoRATocracy and the 1% plutos. Millions of individuals making small personal changes would be much more powerful and effective in my opinion. See this thread: http://occupywallst.org/forum/ideas-for-effecting-change/
you can amend the Constitution thru the states ( not Wash DC) and that is not top down
The state officials are equally beholden to the corporations! Forget a top down political solution: it won't happen and can't happen under the present order.
if people can get liquor taken away, anything is possible!
Liquor, dancing, hemp, and Cuban sugar!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bxlj6fgQ-ZU
http://occupywallst.org/forum/must-watch-videos-for-ows-revolutionaries/
Liquor, dancing, hemp, and Cuban sugar!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bxlj6fgQ-ZU
http://occupywallst.org/forum/must-watch-videos-for-ows-revolutionaries/
Point 1 to 5 are really strong.
Point 6 to 12, I personally agree with, but should be put up for debate after 1 to 5 have been realized.
I really like this.
thanks. read revised version
This is a pretty good platform subject to some modification. It is clear for the most part and is somewhat reminiscent of the straight-forward platform of the Progressive Party of 1912. That party had significant influence and, curiously enough, split the Republican vote to allow Wilson, a Dem, to win. In terms of organizing, I suggest we focus on building a national organization with a goal of 1000 chapters build around this platform or something somewhat modified. We would have membership and dues (sliding scale if necessary but necessary to raise funding to underwrite costs of building movement). Dues paying members could vote. A modified consensus approach. Chapters could be independent and plan own actions as long as they adhere to basic platform. Major focus would be education with chapter and planning of actions to raise public awareness and attract more members. If chapter got to big, you could split it in two according to geographic boundaries. This way, members would become better informed on nature of problem and arm themselves with arguments and be able to practice articulating them in public. Membership cards would list Platform and serve as reminder to all of Platform. Chapters and such membership would enable opportunities for those dedicated members to gain in experience of different functions of organizing: education, communication, media, fundraising, meeting facilitation (basic knowledge of running a meeting and rules of operation), etc. This is a serious long-term project and requires a serious attitude, commitment, and dedication. Ultimately, chapters would nominate representatives to regional and national conference and, at some point, decision would be made of best way to proceed, i.e. working for legislation, influencing elected officials, and/or forming own party, to wit: New American Progressive Party (or somesuch name). This is a brief summary of the actual process which MPowers below points out all ideas should include. I have some experience in this and have been putting together these ideas for a few years. It is a base outline for a realistic approach to achieving a said Goal/Platform-Ideas.
Dost, Yasmine, James, I really appreciate your posts. I hope that you will review my posts under Riethc's thread on developing solid proposals and the threads from the Real World Economics Review blogsite (rwer. wordpress. com) that I reposted at EcotectureNOW. wordpress. com at the "unMoney" page. Dost, the urgency of initiating our own nonprofit community credit system cannot be over-emphasized. Most of us 99%ers need some relief from the oppressive survival-crisis mode of the End Game phase of Plutonomy, Club Fed's world game. Why not start by upgrading the OWS points system to the 5 star Green Star rating system for awarding credits, Trust Units, to worthy posters? As for the naming of the new party, since it has no chance of winning until after the transition to cultural sanity, it may as well be something as provocative as the "Free Party" or the "Sustainable Party" or...?
Didn't know about the points, didn't realize what it was. But upgrading posts to a higher value is very subjective and easily abused. We need a separate thread but how to get it is the problem. Need a connection to the Gods of this site. And apparently, they do not read these posts. I suggest we email them together with all four of our names (i really haven't delved into all that has been said here. Not sure what the community credit system is---are we talking about our own currency or what?). We can contact administrators via email. Course, who knows if they are even reading their own emails. Probably very cursory, so we would have to do something to Grab their attention. I notice there is a phone number and some other thing, I never heard of. I think these guys are computer geeks. Course, there are meetings apparently and maybe they allow contact via computer. Skype possibly. I am not up on all the technical stuff so I may some somewhat ignorant on this stuff. I mean, can we participate at their meetings. They claim to be democratic. Course, being there really makes a difference. I have given some thought to going there.
Dost, Good comments & questions. We can do a virtual currency and a pure, nonmonetary credit system, both nonprofit. As long as it's based on sharing, gifting, and positive contributions to culture (instead of winning/losing, taking, and destructive domination), and transactions based on individual valuation and mutual agreement specific to each exchange, then there's little or no need to be overly concerned about cheating. Will it work? The ancient "Suq" system (the bazaar or community market) has been working fine for well over 5,000 years without fixed values of any of the items for sale. Digital credit units can be awarded via CCCS smart cards or via smart phones or credit scrip. Many online & "real world" businesses will want to use CCCS credits to augment Club Fed's failing system. CCCS units could rapidly become more popular than all the virtual "currencies" online and be exchangable for them, etc. More detail can be found in the Greenbook. I look forward to your feedback & collaboration.
FYI: Tax is unnecessary in a nation with an equitable (fair) nonprofit money system, like the colonies had up to and just after the American Revolution. There was no IRS and personal income tax until 1935 and taxes & import "duties" had only been imposed on businesses. Duties & impost taxes were used to sustain fair trade & the economic stability of the colonies (as much as possible). But back then, the colonists mostly used nonprofit money systems & well regulated currencies. Instituting a nonprofit community credit system will be the quickest sustainable fix, but initiating an optional tax system for business is a good idea -- it could be a simple flat tax 50% of the net profit before profitsharing & executive perqs & benes or 0% percent tax but 50% stock ownership by We the People. The relevant issues are covered briefly in The Greenbook.
they taxed sin ,, moonshiners , you know the only group that didn't have a fair say on the matter. or at least in there mind they didn't.
Moonshiners & other fringe dwellers, whether bucking the system legally or otherwise, are not part of the "real" power "structure" of "society" and they never will be, unless there is proportional representation, consensus decision making, and no prohibition of "recreational" substances -- oh, and let's not forget professional sex. Even in a relatively perfect, anarcho-syndicalist society, like the Mondragon communities of Spain, there will be some lack of perceived equality in governance. Until all people are pure there will be no 100% pure governance. For the same reason, we can forget about having a single pure money system. We need a healthy hybrid system, and we need it NOW.
one system will delay the creation of the next. we have our model to work from now. draw up the document NOW and when it's perfect everyone will simply want to sign. were going to have to find a way to say yes to every past no. why wouldn't they say yes. just gotta turn alot of your own no answers into a lot of yes (s) .
James, Can you be more specific about which systems and what doc you would like to see and sign? Thanks
by system i mean the methods used to seperate from england and he messed that idea up. figure out what we did wrong in that system NOW. then write a new "document" that we can all sign. call it a do over if you want but keep a capacity to first learn from our past mistakes.
Ah - Well, revising the Constitution is a great idea! The Greenbook (mm-greenbook dot blogspot dotcom) includes most of the basics needed for devising a new, highly improved system of government, integrating the best of ancient and modern principles. If Icelanders (all 300,000 of them) could redo their constitution in a few months, then we can too, with a better first draft and a model designed for the next 988 years or so.
scratching my head i will ask. ok. how do i invest in it? everyone needs a return on this investment. i mean the (1 +99)%
Wow. Nice questions & issues, JV. Thanks 4 including 100% of us. Here's the key element & issue: the definition & meaning of value. Now, we're all programed to "see" & believe the elite's version of economics or "money", etc., but when we see through & beyond the veil of illusion, what do we find? Why is a diamond more pricey than a piece of fine jade -- or why does gold cost more than silver, though we now know that gold is actually more plentiful than silver?
So, let me know what you think of this new intro post to the Facebook Group for dialogue on the Green Community Credit System:
The following comment was posted to Stephen Zarlenga's blog at the American Monetary Institute site > www.monetary.org < which offers a treasure trove of inspiring & ultra-encouraging information for curing our ailing culture's sick socioeconomic system. I especially recommend the documents on the bills being introduced to Congress by Dennis Kucinich.
Stephen et al, While I agree with at least 99% of your assessment and prescription, my agreement with your statement about credit collapsing in a crisis (financial panic) is qualified by the fact that it is relatively true only in a negative socioeconomic system with a perverted paradigm.
In a culture without sociopathic financial corruption and negative basic values (disvalues), credit can never collapse because it is based on commonly held perceived value that supports sustainable trust, the key ingredient in any economy, indeed, in any culture.
"Credit" in a basically negative society can evaporate as quickly as general trust in the whole system. Why?
A negative sociocultural paradigm that fosters & justifies destructive exploitation, sociopathic corruption, and ecocidal mania (as the prime motives for interaction) makes credit & discredit & ruin equal, giving a sociopathic "elite" free reign to exploit and, inevitably, to destroy with impunity. Yet, the prime motives of human life -- happiness, contentment, satisfaction, fulfillment, peace, serene confidence, trust, certainty, sanity, health, love for oneself, family, friends, community, humanity as a whole -- all remain intrinsic to most of the 99% of us non-elitists.
A basically destructive socioeconomic system based on a negative social paradigm is innately untrustworthy, gaining dominance only through deception, subversion, perversion, fraud, and coercion. Thus, when the innate negativity and consequences reach the point of maximum intolerability and unsustainablity, the majority's fear of "losing" loses its power to enforce compliance & turns into fear of the system itself. That's clearly where we are now.
The alternative? In a basically positive healthy culture with an equitable, stable socioeconomic system -- based on a paradigm fostering healthy, life enhancing values and mutually rewarding social interaction -- there is no possible cause for a lack of trust in credit or the economy or the participants. In a predominately positive, healthy culture with a nonprofit credit system, each exchange or transaction is by mutual agreement in accord with unchanging positive values, shared by all. Indeed, without that common basis of valuation and trust there can never be a stable economy of any kind.
The only thing keeping the global Plutonomy game (Casino Capitalism) going is trust. A little more pain & suffering & disgust & anger and what's left of the prevailing trust will evaporate, and the Empire of Corruption will collapse, not the truly valuable credit awarded to who or what deserves it.
Now, what can we do about that? We can start awarding real credit wherever it is due, for whatever we See as truly valuable, positive, healthy, life enhancing contributions to human happiness, wellness, culture, future generations, the planet, and life itself. Yes, in other words, each participant becomes a Minter or Agent of the Community Treasury. Which community?
Maybe we should call it the community of Earthlings...? What do you think?
FYI: I do not necessarily agree 100% with all Stephen's conclusions, but his book is clearly one of the most important ever written on the real history of money and banking, and it's written to be pretty easily understandable & interesting to all concerned human beings. M
AMI (American Monetary Institute) - Monetary Reform and Solutions to the Financial Crisis www.monetary.org The American Monetary Institute is a publicly supported charity founded in 1996. The real outcomes in society – whether there will be general economic justice or corrupt financial privileges for the few – are usually determined by the structure of a society’s monetary system.
Dear fwankie123 & Allies, Those seem like pretty good ideas, but I agree with Riethc that all seemingly good ideas should be accompanied by some solid proposals for implementation. Ideas that won't work or that can't get adopted & initiated or that take to long will not do us any good. We have no time to waste, and even the best financial strategy will fail without a radically different economic paradigm fostering a fundamentally, structurally different kind of system. Without that there will be no getting money out of politics, because we the sheeple would remain vulnerable due to ignorance of the basics & mechanics of the system, which will be manipulated by the "experts" of Club Fed to keep most of us confused & too busy hunting for cheese while subsisting on crumbs. Instead, we can and should initiate a new hybrid system now: a grassroots, nonprofit, cooperative community credit system. You can see a simple example at EcotectureNOW dot wordpress dotcom (the Green Star rating tool) & an explanation in the Greenbook section on Green Credit & Commonwealth.
MPowers,
You have more time than you know. I'm a big picture guy. Empires go up and they go down. We are on the way down, but we can manage the decline. Think, "soft landing."
Agreed, and I particularly like the statements -- End too big to fail. Break up the biggest banks. -- so perhaps you would consider our group's proposal of an alternative online direct democracy of government and business at http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategically_weighted_policies_organizational_operating_structures_tactical_investment_procedures-448eo , hit the facebook “like” button if agreed, and then join our group's 20 members committed to that plan at http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
I would be even tighter with term limits. Never give a Crongressman or Senator time to get 'comfy'. Maybe no more than one consecutive term, 2 terms in a lifetime. I honestly believe 90% of the problem is Senators and Congressman taking bribes from corporate lobbyists.
Increase representation from the current 720,000 persons per Rep.
How to take America back? Easy, eliminate all liberals.
I am strongly under the belief that getting the money out of politics is essential to getting our political system to work for the people instead of the wealthy and corporations. Please take a moment to check out my post:occupywallst.org/forum/get-the-money-out-of-politics. There is also a thread at www.themultitude.org. I am interested in organizing individuals to work towards getting the money out of politics. Please let me know at either post if you are interested.
1.Take citizenship away from corporations.
I've noticed that you have posted this in several places. If you are really interested in working to eliminate the money from politics, please work with me.
ccupywallst.org/forum/get-the-money-out-of-politics www.themultitude.org
I'm there, now what?
go to getmoneyout.com and spread the word!
I've never tried to organize anything like this before, so I'm not completely sure what now. I think the first thing is to get people together to figure out an approach. Here's what I think needs to happen:
to have an action plan you first need goals. put your ideas out there!
The goal is getting the money out of politics. Thanks for pointing out the website. I checked them out and I like aspects of what they are trying to do. I'm trying to not just put ideas out there but build an actual discourse on the subject to determine the best path forward. I'm sure that the best path won't come from one individual but from the collaboration of many.
Excellent plan!!
I have two responses:
1) I believe the progressive tax code you propose in point #6 is punitive to the wealthy, and I'm personally in favor of abolishing the income tax for all. However, in light of our $14 trillion debt, I would support a progressive tax code like the one you propose ... until our debt is paid down. Following that objective I think it is imperative for free people to be free of the income tax.
and
2) Our government needs to re-take control of the printing of our money out of the hands of the Federal Reserve so we can issue our own currency debt-free. Otherwise, we'll never gain control of our spiraling debt.
there may be a little pay-back in the plan regarding the wealthy :)
there are 3 things you need to do to get debt-free
grow the economy and take in more taxes
cut spending
raise taxes
all of which is in the plan
All good except 6 and 10. Way too much taxes, the unintended consequences of such high taxes will be enormous.
we have a $trillion dollar deficit? how do you propose to close it? eliminate the military. we had this similar tax structure not to long ago and nothing catastrophic happened. look up tax rates under clinton when we added 20 million jobs to the economy.
Clintons rates would be fine, what is proposed on 6 and 10 is enormous tax burden.
what were clinton's rates?
Top rate on wages under President Clinton was 39 percent. I would then end capital gain rates on hedge funds and PE firms like Buffet. I would let capital gain rates remain for equity trades as so many middle class Americans benefit from that and it enhances savings. Your proposed net worth tax is already built into the estate tax which captures that already. You could have a farmer with land that is worth 7mm with equipment etc, and they are not cash rich so they would be have to sell the farm so to speak to pay a net worth tax.
You forgot my favorite point, post witty comments on occupywallstreet stuffing into George Bush's fat face.