Forum Post: Help us create the Bridge to the Ground. Democracy 2.0. A collaborative effort from Occupy Together
Posted 11 years ago on March 18, 2013, 11:19 a.m. EST by BridgeToTheGroundTeam
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Join Occupy Together's collaborative effort to create a Bridge to the Ground. Democracy 2.0.
We need your help! There are many ways in which you can contribute to making this idea of governing ourselves a reality! Are you a programmer, are you a thinker, are you a designer, are you good at reviewing ideas, are you an expert in law, etc... We need all of you to create the better world. Help us! Join and contribute!
Why talk about politics, when you can actually participate in helping us do politics! Stop wasting your time discussing the democrats vs republicans. Stop wasting your time talking about the finer points of political policies you have no control over. Stop wasting your time writing letters to representatives who don't read them. Don't talk politics! Do politics!
I'm one of the programmers, and I hope you will get involved too!
http://www.i-govern.org/home/
Your friend and Occupy fan till the end,
Thrasymaque
I am trying hard not to say "silly nonsense"
What Direct Democracy Could Achieve
USA Patriot Act Repealed
All Public Universities To Be Free
Pharmaceutical Law Revised to End Corruption H.R. 676, the United States National Health Insurance Act, also known as “expanded and improved Medicare for all,” has moved through Maximum Wage Law Passes
It would be easier to outlaw GREED
DD would be impossible without constitutional amendments
DD is risky without everyone having a computer
DD is risky until hacking is 100% stopped
Almost everything you want can be accomplished is a much more simple way - that is easier to explain & has 80% support in America
I have been WORKING in NYC OWS for over a year, and it is very sad that so many smart people are working on silly impossibles.
It is one of the reasons OWS has lost so many people
DD, alternate currency, visions and goals, proportional voting -
"DD would be impossible without constitutional amendments."
Thomas Jefferson would disagree.
I'm glad you know what TJ has to say
NO elected politician alive or judge in this country would agree with you
OR
prove me wrong
99% of elected officials anywhere are ignorant morons and why would I need their approval anyway?
"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world."
Directly from the DoI written by TJ himself.
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
Change in government, system and/or regime according to TJ does not require constitutional amendment, but simply just the consent of the governed.
Tyranny is the only prerequisite for a change in the system.
I, nor you or atone else needs the consent of the government to rebel.
You must be a great admirer of MLK & Ghandi & Mandella - as am I
Yes, I admire people who think for themselves.
Thoreau is my favourite hermit though. But even Thoreau had his issues.
Me too
~Odin~
U ought 2 get familiar with Occupy Together before U start trying 2 tell what "U" think it is about. That way U don't end up contradicting Occupy Together. And out yourself as a foolish liar.
http://www.occupytogether.org/aboutoccupy/#issues
Also from further up on the same page:
how does the movement work to achieve these goals?
RESIST
In the spirit and tradition of civil disobedience #occupy takes to the streets to protest corporate greed, abuse of power, and growing economic disparity.
RESTRUCTURE
occupy empowers individuals to lead others into action by gathering in the commons (public spaces, parks and online) as engaged citizens to demonstrate a culture based on community and mutual aid. We will be the change we are seeking in the world.
REMIX
Work to make fundamental changes in the system.
See my thread titled "The Common Law Republic".
Some of your ideas are so bad, but your focus definately should not be on the economy or money or employment.
Your focus should be on process.
Dont get butt hurt when people critsize. Move on and try to convince someone else.
Using words like "together" and "solidarity" turn people off because it implies that it is your way or the high way. Let others speak their mind.
Did you even read the link?
It's not about the things you mention, and anybody is welcomed to join and contribute in various ways. Everybody can speak their mind on that site. Not only that, your ideas are considered useful and the good ones get implemented in practice.
You shouldn't judge things you know nothing about.
I wonder did you coin the term bridge to the ground. It's catchy and I once almost used it.
I read the link. I was into it, initially.
Why hadn't you brought it up here till today, if you have thought it so great, and you had really worked on it?
I give you benefit of doubt and chance to explain.
Bridge to the Ground is indeed a term I came up with. It was meant specifically for connecting Internet users to Occupy affinity groups, not for e-democracy in general.
The community at Occupy Together didn't want me to discuss http://i-govern.org on this website. They changed their mind after a lot of convincing. As you know, most discussions here have nothing to do with Occupy and they felt like most users here rather enjoyed the political system we have in place with representatives. They were afraid the crappy discussions we have here would become a reality on our website if I mentioned it here.
Any regrets you didn't listen or stay anonymous.
You do add an edginess or excitement to Ows.org, woke us up
Well the representative system is broken.
How soon till we will have the edemocracy ready to test. Some hope very soon.
We'd like to give the people good news.
Some still worried article v could get hijacked, in opening for new constitution, or it might not transition well.
I can't say when it will be ready. It's a huge project. Hopefully sooner than later. In the meantime, we could always try the demoex system used in Sweden.
[Deleted]
I'm not VQ. I'm Thrasymaque. I have no grudges against anyone here.
Liar.
No, I really have no grudges. I like to debate issues using arguments and well formed logic. It doesn't matter to me if we don't agree as long as there is a good debate. I just have fun with you and shooz because you always attack me with logical fallacies. I don't have a grudge against you guys, I just think you're two unintelligent posters. I also find it funny how you became the self-proclaimed "saviors" and prosecutors of this forum. You attack so many people. I find you both quite pathetic, but I have no grudges. I imagine you like Batman (you), and Robin (shooz). It's funny. Even cute in a way. I like how you both use the same computer lab in your retirement home.
LIAR!!!! SPAMMER!!!
Lying useless spammer.
You debate NOTHING!!
You ever have.
LIAR
Then you're not thresshy.
Why lie about such things?
Quote me from our long ago conversations, and explain to everyone under what circumstances that conversation began.
If you are who you claim to be, you won't have a problem answering those important questions.
Not to answer, proves you a spammer and a liar.
Who you think I am is of no importance. I can't remember any important discussions with you except that you always attack me with flurries of logical fallacies and always do it as mob attacks with your partner DKAtoday. You're part of the Twinkle Team - self-proclaimed prosecutors, "saviors" and all around dictators of this forum. You are unable to debate. You attack all ideas contrary to your own with fallacies. That's all you ever do here.
Fallacies and lies and spam and insults, are what you are made of.
You could not venture an answer.
You are a LIAR!!!
As well as an unrepentant spammer.
and that's just sick.
Go now. You are not needed
OK. When you have a chance: http://www.i-govern.org/home/
Once was enough for me, thanks.
Will you answer the question now?
Liar.
You aren't Thrasymaque.
If you say so.
BULLSHIT
Why?
Because Occupy together is already attached to "THIS" site :
[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (23899) from Coon Rapids, MN 57 minutes ago
Occupy Together | Home www.occupytogether.org/ A hub for all of the events springing up across the country in solidarity with Occupy Wall St. Started out as a hub for the USA, now also covering the rest of the
Link is also found at the top of the page:
OccupyWallStreet The revolution continues worldwide! ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply edit delete permalink
Their http://i-govern.org project is not linked on this site. There's a good reason for that. Most people here want to talk politics. They don't really want to help with Occupy initiatives. People like shooz call this project spam.
No people on this site do not trust "U" as far as one can toss a couple ton boulder.
Spam, spam, spam, spam.
You're damn "right" I do, that's because you've made spam of it, spammer.
It's what spammers like you do!
Spam.
Spam, spam, spam, spam.
It's what spammers do.
Spam.
Im not judging your ideas or your website per se. I am judging your response to Shooz.
You cant get angry or mad when someone critisizes you and/or your ideas.
You and your website arent the end all be all.
It's not my website. It's a website by Occupy Together. Shooz is not criticizing my ideas, he's attacking me personally because he doesn't like me for some reason. He attacks all my comments and postings. He has no arguments. For some reason, he's against Occupy initiatives. That's fine. I'm just wondering why someone who doesn't support Occupy projects spends so much time here. That makes little sense to me. Do democrats spend all their time on republican sites?
Occupy Together | Home www.occupytogether.org/ A hub for all of the events springing up across the country in solidarity with Occupy Wall St. Started out as a hub for the USA, now also covering the rest of the
Link is also found at the top of the page:
OccupyWallStreet The revolution continues worldwide!
And? You hadn't heard of Occupy Together?
These links are not tainted by your presence and have been in place for a long time.
Just sayin
http://i-govern.org has also been in place for awhile. You should check it out and contribute. Skip your bingo game tonight and help use create a better world. You can really make a difference.
Spam.
Thou art become spam, now with new improved reprocessed cheese food.
I believe you are gay. In a couple with DKAtoday. You both live together in a retirement home. You seldom see your children and grand-children because they find you annoying with your bad moods.
Spamming insults now too?
I'm in a great mood. You must be thinking of yourself and projecting it on me.
Spammers are like that.
they lie a lot.
[Removed]
Still lying, still dreaming, still spamming.
You should have taken the bet, spammer.
[Removed]
Where's your proof spammer?
Wouldn't you be better off lying about your puppet usage?
Do you really need to lie about others too?
Isn't it enough to lie about yourself?
Would you please stop spamming the forum with this BS?
It's far too much like watching endless commercials of Australian lizards selling car insurance.
BS? This is an Occupy Together initiative. Why do you spend all your time on this forum if you're against Occupy projects?
Spam.
Why do you spend your time here trying to pass off spam as something wholesome?
It's spam.
Like you, a severely reprocessed meat byproduct. Spitting out puppets like a queen termite births eggs.
Occupy initiatives are spam? Wow. Mind boggling! You'd think a long time follower of Occupy would be happy to hear about an important project from Occupy Together. Again, why do you spend all your time on this forum pretending to support Occupy? Don't throw all your integrity out the window. If you don't support Occupy, find the forum of a group that you do support.
You are become spam.
Nothing more that a spammer. spamming the same spammy crap with your every iteration of sock puppetry,
Spam is what you've become.
http://www.occupy.com/article/two-years-will-lessons-fukushima-go-unheeded
Not a cogent comment on a single link I've posted from Occupy..
Nothing but logical fallacies and spam from you
In my opinion, invading someone's posting which advertizes an important Occupy Together project and repeating over and over that it is spam is what is spam. If you don't like Occupy projects, then simply leave this page. Why not leave this forum altogether and find one with projects you do support?
Spamilisious.
But still spam.
How about some words from you on union busting at the State level?
How about some words on Global warming?
I would expect nothing but spamtacular minimums from you on any actual issue.
Global warming is a real problem caused by humans. Unfortunately, it won't be stopped by the government system we have in place. The only chance we have is to topple the government and replace it with a system of e-democracy like the one I'm working on at: http://i-govern.org If we govern ourselves, many amazing things will be possible. Until then, we'll just see governments that keep failing us no matter what party is in office.
I also talked a lot about anarcho-syndicalism which is related to unions.
When you get tired of attacking those with different ideas than your own, and realize that it's perfectly OK to disagree, come by http://i-govern.org We could use your help. Tell your friends too!
So incredibly un-insightful, it borders on ignorance.
And then it's back to the spam.
You think Obama will stop Global Warming, or some other president? Ok, fine. I don't. I believe we need to govern ourselves. http://i-govern.org When you're passed being a supporter of the democrats and realize that supporting Occupy and anarchy are the way to go, you are more than welcomed to participate in creating the better world with us. It's never too late to change.
Putting words in my mouth?
O' the shame of being a spammer.
Stuck with makin' stuff up and changing subjects whenever it's convenient.
Who are you spammer?
It is what "IT" does.
Makin' stuff up. It's what spammers have always done.
Makin' stuff up, is the polite term for a fucking lying piece of shit.
Oooops, can I say that?
You Bet. That is why if "IT" actually supported Occupy "IT" would not let it be known that "IT" does.
Spam, spam, spam, spam.
Not a word from a spammer on Occupy issues.
Thou art become naught, but spam.
Not a world on Occupy issues? WTF? This posting is about one of the major, if not the biggest Occupy project at the moment. A project you call spam. WTF?
You're spam.
100%, puppet filled spam.
WTF indeed.
WTF is a spammer doing here?
Your comments here resemble spam. Mine support an Occupy Together initiative. Anyhow, thanks for the bumps.
Spam, spam, spam,spam.
Why do you come here over and over to spam the forum?
http://i-govern.org is not spam. It is an initiative by Occupy Together which is an affiliate of OWS. Many occupiers from all over the world are part of the project.
And it looks like the site die in 2011. New game for you?
This initiative is not a game. It's one of the most important projects for Occupy at the moment. The site is alive and well. I work on the software every day, just like many other programmers. We also have many people getting involved with all sorts of other contributions. Your help would be appreciated. The only thing we ask is that you refrain from using insults and profanity.
Pffftt.....
Alright! A Bill the Cat fan. do you own a Basselope too?
"The only thing we ask is that you refrain from using insults and profanity."
Says the insulting spammer.
How about spam?
Can we spam the hell out of it, like you've done here? Turn about being fair play and all.
Can we freely insult your posters like you've done here.
How about bots and sock puppets?
Can we spam your site with those too?
How about lies? Like you lie here, can we lie there?
Not that I really want too. I just want you to leave with your, bots, puppets, insults, spam and all the rest of your BS.
C'mon, you know your fledgling site needs your cogent input.
Spam.
Just who are you pretending to be today, pray tell?
Who are you at your spammed site? In case I want to go there, I would like to be forewarned of what puppets I should expect to encounter
http://www.i-govern.org/home/ is not spam. It's an Occupy Together initiative. Only enemies of Occupy call Occupy projects spam.
I do believe it is U being called spam.
Your believe is based on a miss reading of shooz's position. In his first comment on this thread he states - "Would you please stop spamming the forum with this BS?" http://occupywallst.org/forum/help-us-create-the-bridge-to-the-ground-democracy-/#comment-946777
He essentially calls http://i-govern.org BS. I don't. I think it's an important Occupy initiative.
Your best bet then - to support it - I mean - would be keeping your involvement (?) hidden.
I disagree. Most occupiers I met are intelligent enough to judge ideas on their own merit, without being compelled to make the fallacy of appeal to authority. I also have many supporters here. Not everyone misunderstands Occupy. Sure, you, shooz, GF, and others in the Twinkle Team act as the site's self imposed prosecutors and attack those with ideas that differ from your own. However, the other readers can plainly see you have no arguments of worth, just logical fallacies.
Here's yet another logical fallacy.
What is this twinkle team you keep mentioning as if it's important to your "argument"?
What is it you think this "team" does?
I know it will be difficult, but try not to make anything up.
Shooz and DKAtoday are the leaders of Twinkle Team. They are the self-appointed prosecutors on this forum. They attack all ideas they disagree with using logical fallacies, and high five all users they agree with. They are unable to debate any issue in a serious scholarly fashion. Shooz and DKAtoday live together in the same retirement home. They are an old gay couple, which is kinda cool actually.
Logical fallacy to prop up logical fallacy.
Now you're talkin' spammer.
You even had to back out of your insult.
Of course it's all assumption on your part, but that's what spam is.
ASSumption.
Only an enemy of Occupy would spam this forum with invites to leave.
Plus lie about stuff.
Definitely, you are a spammer.
You can help by talking about http://i-govern.org to the people in your retirement home. Get them all to join and contribute their ideas. Work with DKAtoday. He can take care of spreading the message in the east wing while you work in the west wing.
Spam, insults AND logical fallacy, all in the same place.
Perhaps you should get out of your middle school and get a real job?
http://i-govern.org Check it out! Contribute! Change the world!
I seen it.
It's spamalicious.
You should go there and keep an eye on it, rather than stay here and spam and insult people until you get banned again......
It would seem to be the logical thing to do.
Although, logic isn't your specialty, I think you can do it, you just have to make up your mind.
I think you're gay, not that there's anything wrong with that. You and DKAtoday are a couple. You live in the same retirement home. You have few friends, and that's why you always use this site. You prefer bingo over chess because it's easier. You're an old grumpy old man. That's two "old". Your grandchildren don't see you often because they don't enjoy your bad moods. You once worked in a position of power. You were a valet attendant. That's why you want to be the forum's self-appointed prosecutor. You are used to having your way over others.
See.
I knew you were a lying piece of shit the whole time.
You telegraphed that move.
Makin' stuff up and insulting people.
Wanna make a bet?
'Cause I'll bet this iteration of your insulting ego, won't last much longer than another half an hour or so.
You've provided an entire paragraph of logical fallacies, and you likely don't even admit it.
Giving a program the kiss of death by supporting it Trashy?
I am one of the programmers. I believe in this project with all my heart. If others don't want to believe in it or contribute because I am part of it, then I'd say they are basing their decision on a logical fallacy. I am one of thousands working on this community effort. Everyone is welcomed to join. We are open to various points of views, and won't call someone a troll because he disagrees. The beauty of this site is that most people using it are serious about debates. They use arguments and logic, not fallacies. Take some time off your bingo night, and check it out! I'm sure you could help in many ways.
Giving a program the kiss of death by supporting it Trashy?
I wouldn't trust you as far as I could throw a Bus.
You don't have to trust me. It's an Occupy Together initiative. I'm asking you to support the idea, the project, not to support me. I'm just one man out of thousands. It would be sad for you to drop a huge Occupy project just because I'm involved. I have been actively involved as a programmer with Occupy since day one.
Kiss of Death - that is your new tactic?
If you don't want to support Occupy initiatives because you don't like me personally that's fine. We already have many people supporting and working on the idea. When you realize that it's OK to disagree with others while debating, and that it's important to use well formed arguments instead of logical fallacies, please join our efforts. Tell your friends too! The more people we have, the better our chances of success.
You have??
Who are you claiming to be?
I'm an Occupy supporter and always have been. I criticized Occupy heavily on many issues because I think criticism is the only way to improve something. The posters were improved because of my criticism that they were too violent. That was a good thing. I have also worked as a programmer for many Occupy software projects. I'm now concentrating my efforts on http://www.i-govern.org/home/ because I believe democracy is of utmost importance.
I was labelled a troll by a user who, like you, did not understand Occupy. I explained to him that is was about anarchy, he freaked, and started calling me a troll. Others followed his line of thought without thinking. It's funny how rumors are started.
Here's that thread: http://occupywallst.org/forum/save-your-mind-from-infiltration-ignore-the-psyops/
Like you, that user thought Occupy was about saving the republic, not toppling it and replacing it with anarchy.
A spammer AND a conspiracy theorist?
That's quite a resume.
Plus you've offered NO truth about who you really are.
Frightened?
I believe so, and spammers deserve to feel frightened.
I believe you are gay, which is perfectly fine. You live in the same retirement home as DKAtoday, and actually sleep with him. The problem is you both haven't come out to your families and this causes you a lot of stress. I suggest coming clean. Being gay is OK.
Spamming insults now???
Oh the shame of being a spammer, and lacking in anything that even remotely resembles dignity.
There's nothing wrong with being gay. It's only an insult in the ears of homophobes.
That's not the context you used spammer.
Not even close.
Why not give a hint as to why you came to that conclusion?
What "facts" do you base your assumption on?
Whats wrong with your BS is you know it is false - so your stating your BS - IS an attempt at insult - your BS is then also an insult to the gay community - because you are trying to use being gay as an insult.
How are you gonna kick yourself in the balls Next?
I fully support the LGTB community. I am part of it. I'm gay.