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Forum Post: Health Care - Distracted from the real issues by the Funding Question

Posted 2 years ago on Oct. 7, 2012, 2:53 a.m. EST by Karlin (350) from Nelson, BC
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The ongoing debate about "Private, or Public Funding?" has dominated and distracted us from the real issues of health care.

Instead of debating about "where should the money come from" we would be serving our health better by talking about "what should the money be spent on". The soaring cost of health care is a direct result of ignoring this issue.

Corporate health care means pharmaceuticals and surgery, and a lot of useless and expensive diagnostics, but not much else. We are limited to treatments that don't cure but are designed for an ongoing pill popping regimen.

What about the role of prevention and cures? - none of the therapies in use today are designed to cure any illness, they all involve ongoing treatments.

And "what role should natural therapies play?"  - currently, NOT ONE natural therapy is used in treating any illness. And what about supplements, including Vit. C and D [known and accepted preventatives]?

Perhaps most importantly is the cause of illness today - where does it come from? What fuels the cancer epidemic? Obesity? Diabetis? Heart Disease? And no, it isn't all from smoking - the patients are NOT to blame for , carcinogens, or the preservatives in foods on store shelves, or heavy metal poisoning. [I will agree that couch potatoes do invite their own problems to a degree, but lets not be distracted by that too much ok?]

We have allowed corporate health care in, but it is time to OCCUPY THE HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY!!

{and I have a lot more for a follow up post!}



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[-] 1 points by Karlin (350) from Nelson, BC 2 years ago

The bigger issue than funding, as in "govt. medicare, or pay for it yourself" is " what is the money being spent on"

EG - Diagnostics The money is being spent on hugely expensive diagnosis that are so often not necessary, and as is the case with PROSTATE CANCER, the conclusion now is that the super-vigilent diagnosis routines were actually HARMIING men because there were so many false-positives and then aggressive treatments for what is almost allways a very slow-growing cancer that in most cases requires no treatment - you die of old age before you die of most prostate cancers, and if it is a genuine threat then it is obvious and treatable at that stage.

Breast cancer is another example of wastefull diagnostics - again, many women were harmed [i.e. masectomy] by a false-positive test, and only a certain few types of breast cancer require quick action and the mamograms were not distinguishing them from others.

A whole lot of money was spent on those two diagnostic programs, and guess who made big profits?

Mamography Risk http://www.naturalnews.com/037134_mammography_breast_cancer_dangers.html

[-] -1 points by darrenlobo (204) 2 years ago

The problem is regulation & licensing. That's what limits options, supply, & competition. It comes as no surprise that the confluence of 3 of the most regulated industries (pharma, medical, insurance) is a wreck. The whole healthcare debate is a distraction because it ignores these issues. We need to move to a free (not regulated) market in health care. No more govt licensing or govt regulation in these areas. We also need to phase out the subsidies these industries get including Medicare & Medicaid.

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

The biggest problem is the obscene overcharging of the private health insurance industry.

Put them out of business with competition from public option.

Public option now! EXPAND medicare. That'll learn 'em!

Costs WILL drop.

[-] 1 points by Karlin (350) from Nelson, BC 2 years ago

That is a good point - but I think that the reason pharma, medical, insurance is a mess is that the corporations have too much say about how it will work, and they favor their profits over patients needs.

In other words, we have to change the people who are making the health care administration decisions.

  • Where should research dollars go? *What treatments are most effective, and cost could be considered if it allows more people to be treated, for example.
  • Handing the diagnostics area over to private corporations means we will be paying more, and there are examples of where "over diagnosing" actually does harm

And for starters - lets get off the topic of "private insurance Vs Medicaid/Medicare" because that distracts us from these other issues. Serve Patient's needs first!! [hey, another slogan]

[-] -1 points by TheRazor (-329) 2 years ago

Most health care issues are self induced. Smoking, drug abuse, and #1, obesity.

A hundred years ago, an average man weighed 150 lbs.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

We are certainly not living healthy. Poor food (high fructose corn syrup) availability amongst the other things you mentioned should be addressed. But that isn't really our biggest health care SYSTEM problem.

What about the obscene overcharging by insurance corps? That's the real biggest problem with our healthcare system.

Let's put the private health insurance corps out of business and we will see prices reduced right quick!

Public option now will resolve the unaffordability problem.

[-] -2 points by TheRazor (-329) 2 years ago

We have one public option now. The premium is $1200/month. Its called Medicare.

Its bankrupt, too at a $1200 month premium.

Try again.

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

The people I know on medicare do not pay a premium of $1200 month.

That sounds like a partisan lie!

YOU may try again without the dishonest republican talking points.


And it ain't bankrupt Obamacare extended medicares life for a dozen years

[-] -2 points by TheRazor (-329) 2 years ago

This is why libtards need after school tutoring.

I am here to help.

The cost of Medicare is now $600 billion a year for 47 million retirees. The true cost of MC is about $15000 per enrollee. If you are going to compare MC or a new public option, we need oranges to oranges comparisons.

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Your numbers are exaggerations. And moot since we all paid into the system throughout our working life. In fact you left out the current workers who are constantly contributing (paying) for this excellent program.

So if there is some cost issues just increase the number of workers (more immigration) and expand the payroll contribution by increasing the contribution on all salaries over $200K.

"That'll do pig"

Do you use the insult "libtard" because you have no honest facts to support your dishonest ascertion? If you can't discuss in a civl and respectful way you should be an adult, admit, defeat, refrain from the schoolyard bullying tactics of your candidate Romney or just don't respond.

[-] -1 points by TheRazor (-329) 2 years ago

I called them from scratch, they are not off much.

I have no idea what you mean by current workers. Medicare has a cost. Its far more xpensive than private insurance. That simply cannot be denied.

You are the liar. Thas why i call you a libtard. Start with honesty and you be insulted, however honesty escapes you in all your posts while I am the essence of truth.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I am not retarded and it is offensive to use that slur.

Medicare is absolutely much cheaper than private insurance. Private ins passes on the costs of obscenely high exec compensation, lobbying costs, advertizments, and profits. All costs medicare does not have.

Let's put the criminal overcharging private health insurance corps out of business.

"it's the only way to besure"

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

I dont even want medicare. I want the fuckin plan those slimeballs in DC have.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

They should lose there plan! And be put on Medicare! Andthey should actually pay a monthly premium as all wealthy should.

I'd be very happy with Medicare. Better than nothing which is what I have.

[-] -2 points by TheRazor (-329) 2 years ago

Prove that private insurance is cheaper. I pay $992 a month for a family plan, covering 3 people.

As I proved beyond a doubt with pure fact, Medicare for 3 people is $4200/month.

Case closed.

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I've already told you that the friends/family I know who are using Medicare are NOT paying what you suggest!

So clearly it is much cheaper for the individual than any private health insurance.

And your medicare cost number (to the govt) inaccurate, it's way too high. You're just anti medicare/govt spending. You don't care about affordability for the elderly. If you take away Medicare & make the elderly pay the obscenely high private insurance people will go without and DIE!

So you can save tax money? Please, Most Americans ain't that greedy, selfish or heartless.

Get with the program. The govt medicare program!

I guess you're against SS also? LMFAO

[-] -1 points by TheRazor (-329) 2 years ago

Its simply math and libturds love to argue against math.

You proved nothing. Loser.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Your continued inability to maintain civil fact based discussion and resorting to the schoolyard bullying tactics of your candidate Romney reflect the utter emptiness of your position.

When you have no more facts you should be an adult, admit failure, refrain from offensiveness or don't respond.

Since you offer only childish insults. I win. Consider yourself dispatched, and dismissed.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26217) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Actually less than 50 years ago - 5'8" was considered average height and 150 was still an average weight - for men.

[-] 1 points by Karlin (350) from Nelson, BC 2 years ago

"Good Morning Mr. Razor - Looking at the test results, as your doctor I have to tell you that you have swallowed a big chunk of propaganda and it is stuck in your duodenum...." HA! sorry buddy, I am just being goofy...

And I do see it - obese and overwheight people eating the ice cream and chocolate bars and sugary pop, I cant deny that... but there is allways another side to things, and even active kids are getting heavy... something else going on.

But really, that is a tactic called "blame the patient" and although it is true in some cases it is actually a small portion of what causes diseases., and besides that, things like obesity have a lot to do with food industry regulating - HFCS causes obesity and try to find a list of ingredients without HFCS [high fructose corn syrup] Horemone imbalance causes obesity, and that comes from horemones given to chicken and cattle to FATTEN THEM UP!! Direct cause...

There are quite a few "Endocrine Disruption" toxins in our foods and environment that cause horemone imbalance, and therefore obesity, such as arsenic, some persistent organic pollutants (POPs) such as PCBs and dioxin, bisphenol A, phthalates, some pesticides, and possibly nitrate, are considered endocrine disruptors.


More on obesity - http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/03/the-real-cause-of-the-global-obesity-epidemic.html