Forum Post: Happy birthday America - the country where freedom was born!
Posted 11 years ago on Aug. 2, 2012, 5:10 p.m. EST by DemandTheGoodLifeDotCom
(3360)
from New York, NY
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Although America celebrates its founding on July 4th, today is the day when most people actually signed the Declaration of Independence. So some historians argue today should be the official birthday.
But whether you celebrate on the Fourth or today, what is important to understand is that we are celebrating our country's founding. We are celebrating the day when a few white, rich men got so sick of paying taxes that they declared war on their country. But the war, of course, was not about rich, white men. It was about freedom, equality and democracy for everyone. It says it right there in our Declaration of Independence. It was so noble an act, thinking about it should give any good patriot a Matthews tingle up their leg.
When the war was over, we founded the greatest country in the world. It was a country where liberty reigned for everyone. Well, except blacks who we enslaved. And except Native Americans who we mostly slaughtered (you know, with their barbaric ideas of sharing and all). And except women who we prevented from voting. And except men who were not rich or white enough to own land who we also prevented from voting.
But for everyone else, you were free at last, free at last, free at last.
Well, only rich, white males are left. And they were already free. But now they finally escaped the tyranny of having to pay a tax. And now they had their very own kingdom to rule, I'm sorry I mean country to democratically participate in.
Thus began a 236 year tradition of politicians giving the American public a heavy dose of all the right American feel-good buzzwords like freedom, democracy and equality, while engineering a society that mostly favors white, rich men and goes to wars to further their interests.
So in the immortal words of Frederick Douglass, a real revolutionary for freedom, democracy and equality, “The [Second of August] is yours, not mine.”
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What? Freedom was born in America. God blessed America. This is the greatest country in the world. It is star spangled. Fox News says so.
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So the "rich don't have to pay taxes". Well let me enlighten you - 2% of the "evil rich and wealthy" pay 10% of the taxes while the remining people who make over 230,000 pay 20% of the taxes and these are "small businesses". .
So you have businesses and "evil rich and wealthy" people paying 30% of the taxes in this country.
Look if the top 2% to 5% have 90% of the wealth - don't you think that they should pay 90% of the taxes?
They are paying at least 30% on their income and another 15% on their investments - so I think 45% is fair.
"They are paying at least 30% on their income and another 15% on their investments - so I think 45% is fair."
You are so uninformed.
They don't pay 45%. If their income is from investment they don't pay 30% PLUS another 15%!!! They JUST pay 15%.
Rich people pay a much LOWER rate than everyone else because most of their income comes from investments which gets taxed at the very low rate of 15%.
Nope 1/2 ( if that could be verified for all of them ) is not close to good enough. 90% of the wealth = 90% of the tax burden.
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Yeah, his math is way off. It seems to me, if you're paying 30% on income and 15% on investments, then your tax rate is between 15% and 30%, depending on the ratio between income and investment.
It seems pretty simple to me - I mean if 1 to 5% of the population has 90% of the wealth - then they should have 90% of the tax burden and the other 95 to 99% ( however it actually works out ) of the population with 10% of the total wealth should have a 10% tax burden. Easy Peasy.
Seems to me. Even if it wasn't 90%, 15% is absolutely ridiculous.
No bout adoubt that. ridiculous and fiscally insane.
"Ridiculous and fiscally insane."
Just another day at the DC office!
That is a sad sad truth. {;-( Who the hell balances their checkbook. Or do they have keepers in private life.
Yeah, why balance it? If we run out of cash before the end of the month, we'll just borrow more. Hell, we don't really have to pay it back anyway, we'll just get somebody else to pay it.
Hey - does that copier make two sided color copies(?)...hmm(?)...OH I am just running a bit short at the mo and wanted to get lunch......Oh! Oh sure....hear let me load it up for you.
You can run it through twice but it's a bitch to get the sides to line up. ;-)
You'd be surprised at the number of people that are doing just that, not getting greedy, but printing just enough to get by. Flying under the radar.
In reply to below - TRUE.
BTW - I just made a Move to Amend Post if UR interested.
I will check it, of course.
They must have great paper and ink or some really dim cashiers.
Yeah, I don't see how they do it, but apparently they do. Saw it in a doc a few years back. It wasn't about the small-timers, but considering people are still getting away with it, it's not too much of a stretch to believe that for every big-timer, there are a number of small-timers getting away with it.
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Well I say the only way to make them pay more is make the government do it - that's the only way it will happen.
Think that'll happen?
Only with the population pushing for it.
There you go - it takes people getting involved and until that happens things aren't going to change - demonstrating on wall street when in fact demonstrations and involvement should be with Washington DC and representatives are what make change.
Look at the accomplishments the Tea Party has because of their determination and involvement.
You can't get people who are "brow beaten" by continuously hearing that it's the fault of the "evil rich and wealthy" when in fact it's the fault of the people for allowing the government to allow laws to be passed that favor big business.
The attitude of the government needs to be changed - only then will things change. Complaining about what others have and don't have doesn't get it done.
Wow - so close - you almost made a decent comment. Well it really was not all that close.
Your 1st partial sentence was so promising: There you go - it takes people getting involved and until that happens things aren't going to change
And then you lost it. Thank you - please come again.
It's true and you know it - Tell me what kind of accomplishments were made marching on Wall Street and in California?
What kind of legislation regarding changes with regard to big business was accomplished because of this.
The only thing doing this did do was make the news when people crossed the line with the police. Other then that there is not one accomplishment that can be "verified and listed" that had any impact on laws in congress.
Not one thing verifiable - Huh - considering corpoRAT Media coverage Blackout or negative spin. The dialog has changed in the country 1% 99% as well as the things that are being discussed with out mentioning the Movements. OH - And then there is now the talk on MSM ( the corpoRATs remember? ) where people are talking about bringing back Glass-Stegall and the talk about repealing citizens united and the reintroduction of one subject at a time legislation the talk about regulating fossil fuel speculation the talk about ending fossil fuel subsidies the talk about getting the wealthy to pay their fair share into society etc etc etc. - but nope no one willing to go on record to say these things were pressured by the protests. Nope I guess OWS and all of the Occupy movements around the world have been for naught (NOT). You can claim what you want just do not expect to be able to sell that BS here.
Well, you probably should consider your own radio stations. Otherwise the voice will continue to view you merely as a symptom.
What?
[-] 1 points by Porkie (-71) 4 minutes ago
Well, you probably should consider your own radio stations. Otherwise the voice will continue to view you merely as a symptom. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink
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Rich people pay the bulk of the taxes because they take the bulk of the income.
But I don't claim in this article that the rich don't have to pay taxes today. Your quote is a lie.
Let me ask you like I have asked several others on this site without an answer.
Where does a person get the finances needed to start a small business?
Where does a person get the finances needed to purchase goods or services?
Does it come from an individual using ones own "labour and brains that gives them the resources to acquire this?
If you disagree then provide your answer.
Wait, are you going to try to defend capitalism with rational arguments and not just capitalist slogans like every single other brainwashed apologist for capitalism tried to do on this site? This should be interesting.
Are you asking how does that work in a capitalist system or how does it work in an alternative system?
It doesn't matter - give it your best shot.
So I guess it is not going to be an intellectual discussion after all. But let's see where this goes.
People in a capitalist system get investment money from savings and they get consumption money from income.
Labor and brains are necessary for most but not all of the income people get and use on consumption or save for investment.
Well, I'm surprised you gave an answer.
So now tell me what do you see wrong with doing that - what do you see wrong with a person working to save money using their labour and brains to earn this income so they can use it for consumption and or for investing it or starting up a business?
The problem is the system, not the people who have no choice but to live by it.
And the reason why this system is a problem is because it is unfair and based on theft and exploitation as I explain in this short post:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/simple-explanation-of-why-capitalism-is-unfair/
You know the fact that you made the statement "people have no choice but to live by it" makes me believe that you like a lot of other people think change should be made because you dislike what's going on.
Tell me what do you think will make change happen? Do you have any idea or a clue?
I doubt it because of the answer you gave. Complaining doesn't do squat except piss people off who listen and eventually they don't want to hear it anymore.
Why do you think the Tea Party has such clout? It's not because they piss and moan - they take action to get action.
So, stop looking at things from a perspective of "we have no choice" and look at things from a perspective of "we can make change happen by being active in politics".
That my good friend is how change happens in this country.
"Tell me what do you think will make change happen? Do you have any idea or a clue?"
If you read the post I gave where I explain why capitalism is unfair, in it I link to another post which describes what a fair system would be. And at the end of that post, I explain what needs to be done to implement that fair system.
The workable alternative to capitalism has been around for 150+ years. And the means for changing the system has been around just as long. The way to change is to organize workers into a single union and demand the change or go on a general strike.
Here is the cliff notes version:
We simply start a grassroots campaign where you, me and everyone else who is interested in this idea just approach your friends, family and co-workers and ask them to join a worker union.
This union will guarantee you a job so you are never unemployed, get them a minimum income of at least $115k or $230k per year, depending on their job, reduce their work week to 20 hours, guarantee them a 100% mortgage with 0% interest, pay them a pension at retirement and pay them and their kids an actual income to go to school.
When asked how this is possible. You will simply say by demanding that workers get paid fairly: based on how hard they work.
Nearly everyone you talk to wants a higher income and this will give them a significantly higher income. And everyone believes in fairness and that paying people based on how hard they work is fair.
If enough people join this union, we can simply demand that these changes be made and go on a general strike if the demands are not met. The economic system will then have no choice but to change.
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"Why do you think the Tea Party has such clout? It's not because they piss and moan - they take action to get action."
I completely agree. My very first post here was saying we should do what the tea party does.
Your grass roots campaign has been "grassroots" since it started. You cannot provide one bit of legislation change that was made on behalf of the OWS that had any impact or effect on Big Business - none whatsoever.
So tell me how are you going to "make this change" happen - march again on Wall Street or California.
I do not run OWS. If I did, it would have leadership, specific changes to make and a specific plan to get those changes enacted. It would be more like the tea party of the radical left.
Unfortunately, OWS is more interested in being a protest movement than a change movement.
I have significant complaints about OWS. I don't think they will ever change anything.
fuck you. and your stupid web site.
Well said. You are continuing the tradition of apologists for capitalism providing zero intellectual arguments for what they advocate. Your worldview is based on childish insults.
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Not even close. The rich pay around 30% of their income in tax, the middle class in the mid twenties. These figures include all taxes, income, payroll, sales, property, excise, Etc.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/the-taxes-americans-really-pay-in-two-graphs/2012/04/16/gIQA6o4yLT_blog.html
What is the source for your figures?
Weird how blacks and Latinos and Asians clamor to have what rich white men have. Weird how extremely beautiful oppressed women throw themselves sexually at rich white men. Weird how Jews hae prospered in America while being victimized all over Europe.
The saddest losers are the poor white men that are so lame they cant get a bigger piece of the pie when its been rigged to their advantage. Like you, hahahaha!