Forum Post: great job on the freedom of speech thing
Posted 12 years ago on Jan. 10, 2012, 7:13 p.m. EST by themuppetmaster
(12)
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Yeah, I know this is a "private forum and free speech rules do not apply" but it jus t goes to show the lack of tolerance of anyone on the right as well as the hipocritical nature of OWS.
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of hate-speech.
Well, not so fast. In an internet forum, not operated by our government, there really is no freedom of speech. However, our government may not censor even hate speech. Indeed, it's the most offensive speech which requires the most legal protection, and gets it under our First Amendment.
We don't discredit bad and hateful ideas by censoring them, we defeat them in the marketplace of ideas.
Who makes the determination of what is and is not hate speech? Blacks call themselves niggaz, but a white person cannot. It is OK to hate on Christians, but not Muslims. You can call a black conservative an uncle tom, but not a black democrat someone who wants to stay on the plantation. Michelle Obama can complain about "white catholic men" but you cannot say anything about black men in general. Sorry, freedom of speech should not come with provisions..
If you believe, as I do, that everything carries energy, then hate speech carries negative energy; it isn't the words but the feeling behind the words that makes the difference. I believe the victims often take offense when none is intended (my definition of "offense": something that is seldom given but often taken). This promotes the specific prejudice against which they protest because they are seeing what is not there. My advice is always, "Do you think the person meant to offend you?" If you don't know, then they probably didn't.
Someone calls for Genocide = Hate Speech.
Someone uses racist, sexist, or homophobic epithets = Hate Speech.
Someone engages in bigotry against religious view = Hate Speech.
Basically, if it sounds like something you'd hear at a white supremacist rally/the westboro baptist church = hate speech.
it may be offensive speech, no doubt, but the definition of "hate speech" or "hate crime" is very subjective. White guy beats up black guy and uses the "N" word-hate speech. Black guy beats up white person and calls them whatever-not hate crime. There is no law against being offended, but there seems to be a movement to make it so.
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hate speech is a phoney designation.
you mean like "compassionate conservative" or "reasonable libertarian" is a phoney designation?
compassionate conservative or reasonable libertarian,..............neither is a crime. hate speech is P.C. garbage.
you mean "p.c. garbage" as in "anti-bullying laws are p.c. garbage"?
were you ever a child? ever go to school? bullies are big mouthed cowards that you learn to deal with if you have to.
yes, anti-bullying laws are nanny state p.c. garbage.
Wow, what a sick thing to think/say. I thought pro-life republicans were all about protecting the children? I suppose George Carlin was right, once you're out of the womb, you're on your own.
you protect children ,..........by teaching them to protect and defend themselves in their own environment............school.
I thought you protected them, by protecting them? By your logic, why have laws against abuse in the home? When we could just protect kids by teaching them to protect and defend themselves in the home. In fact, why do anything for them at all. Why not simply expose them shortly after birth like the Ancient Spartans? Let nature weed out the weaklings who cannot survive on their own.
Sick.
what do you consider bullying to be?
persistent psychological/physical harassment and violence that, left unchecked, often drives its victims to suicide.
of all the kids of all ages that have gone to school and are going to school,.......how many killed themselves?
we had one case at Williamsville high school down the road just this year. But the numbers are pretty irrelevant. Not many people commit genocide, but we still have laws against it.
here's more info:
Suicide is the third leading cause of death among young people, resulting in about 4,400 deaths per year, according to the CDC. For every suicide among young people, there are at least 100 suicide attempts. Over 14 percent of high school students have considered suicide, and almost 7 percent have attempted it. Bully victims are between 2 to 9 times more likely to consider suicide than non-victims, according to studies by Yale University A study in Britain found that at least half of suicides among young people are related to bullying 10 to 14 year old girls may be at even higher risk for suicide, according to the study above According to statistics reported by ABC News, nearly 30 percent of students are either bullies or victims of bullying, and 160,000 kids stay home from school every day because of fear of bullying
from: http://www.bullyingstatistics.org/content/bullying-and-suicide.html
i wonder how many generations of people grew up without these nanny state p.c. bullying laws and without killing themselves.
Any group of people will, sad to say, have the faults of the people who comprise it. Once we understand that, perhaps we can be a bit more accepting of each other. If from all of this arguing, discussing, namecalling, etc. we learn to accept differing views as viable for the person holding those views, we will be on the path to learning from each other instead of vilifying each other.
SOPA is the Stop Online Piracy Act which will ultimately censor the internet from cites such as this.
"hipocritical"? LOL
Highly critical of hippopotamus (hippopotami?) :)
Hey... that's a great definition! May I suggest the synonym "hippophobe"?
But enough with the zoology already! Isn't it bad enough that we have to beat back the TROLLS around here 24/7 ? :)
Well, in the interest of being in this world together peacefully, the trolls are probably the first test to see just how accepting we can be of each other. I have no problem with them; they may make me think differently about something, or I may make them think differently about something. Or not. They are part of our world and we a part of theirs. How we deal with each other is what matters.
I beg to differ: most trolls on this forum are PAID to distract, disrupt and and destroy the possibility of meaningful dialogue.
"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
That is why, even on this extremely tolerant forum, we have moderating policies against it:
"Trolling will be squashed whenever possible/reported/found out."
http://occupywallst.org/forum/moderating-policies-will-be-reposted-somewhere-pro/
Of course, I agree with your point about learning to "be in this world together peacefully", but this forum is NOT "the world": it is a meeting place for people involved in a Sacred Struggle.
I do not despise the trolls as PEOPLE, but I do despise their ACTIONS and feel that we must do our utmost to cleanse this forum of them.
My point really is that if we cannot survive distractions, disruptions and the nastiness spewed forth, then we will have to toughen up. We can forgive them for being what they are and move on, giving no value or effect to their actions. Forgiveness, by the way, is not condoning behavior, but rather accepting that it is and not allowing it to have any effect on us.
Of course we can "SURVIVE", but the troll infestation WEAKENS us by making us spend energy needlessly.
"Giving no value or effect to their actions" is an abstract concept.... Most forums protect themselves against trolls AND FOR GOOD REASON.
I repeat: That is why, even on this extremely tolerant forum, we have moderating policies against it:
"Trolling will be squashed whenever possible/reported/found out."
http://occupywallst.org/forum/moderating-policies-will-be-reposted-somewhere-pro/
So, Phanya2011, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree...
Rules against them are good things, but wasting the time we just did talking about them, not so much. :)
I beg to differ. Discussing trolls on a TROLL-INFESTED forum is definitely not a waste of time. Ours is a Sacred Struggle and we need ALL of our energy to wage it successfully. Misplaced idealism will get us nowhere. And neither will hatred, obviously.
Take Gandhi : he was committed to love and non-violence but he was no "softie". In fact, philosopher Slavoj Zizek quips that "Gandhi was in some ways more violent than Hitler". :)
Just out of curiosity, and not to incite any negative response, how do you define sacred? We often misunderstand each other because we use our words differently, and I don't want to make that mistake here.
Hippos are fat wrinkly sweaty big mouths. They disgust me.
Yeah, I had an auto accident and my memory is suffering a bit as well as typing and spelling, but you get the point.
I'm sorry to hear about your accident, and even sorrier to find you trolling on this site. Sad and unworthy of you as a human being.
Are you an American?
"I believe in the United States of America, as a government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign Nation of many sovereign States; a perfect union, one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice, and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes. I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it, to support its Constitution, to obey its laws, to respect its flag, and to defend it against all enemies."
(The American's Creed is the national creed of the United States of America. It was written in 1917 by William Tyler Page as an entry into a patriotic contest. It was adopted by the U.S. House of Representatives April 3, 1918.)
what does that have to do with the fact that this forum is censored? I am trying to point out the fact that censorship is alive and well here at OWS and I know this because previous user names I have had no longer allow posting for public view.
Lemme get this straight: you were TROLLING under other user names and you got caught and you got banned?
You know, that's only right, as the mod policies clearly state: "Trolling will be squashed whenever possible/reported/found out."
I was not trolling, I asked questions that OWS does not want to or could not answer. I am only guilty of giving a differing opinion that you just cannot stand. You took your ball and went home crying because I do not agree with OWS. No room for right wing, conservatives, TEA Party members here. I called you all on it and became labeled a troll.
Article 5 convention NOW!
There is some knowledgable discussion on the subject here.
http://www.occupyr.com/General/thread.php?id=1006
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Lack of tolerance towards paultards is just common sense, not hypocrisy. For what it's worth I posted a thread documenting ron paul moles plan to "occupy this forum" by sending traffic here from ronpaulforums.com, and it was deleted. So it isn't only discrimination against paultards that causes threads to be censored.
The left is only tolerant of their own beliefs.
Tell that to the (R)epelicans.
The party of NO.
That was pure transference on your part.
To be fair its the same for most other people who have differing ideas.