Forum Post: generation x...y ....f@&*d
Posted 10 years ago on Jan. 23, 2014, 9:04 p.m. EST by elf3
(4203)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Generations fucked ....does this apply to you ?
Are you in your twenties and thirties or perhaps even edging up on forty and still struggling to make ends meet...?
Do you wish that you had a degree but know you could never possibly make a gain vs the debt that you would owe nor think you'd be better off for it? Not to mention no bank will give you a loan on your current floor sweeper salary and hey as far as the government is concerned - you're employed so no federal rate for you.?
Have you been working for over a decade in dead end jobs being talked down to like the guy named Benny that used to sweep the floors on LA Law?
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/season-5-pictured-larry-drake-as-benny-stulwicz-news-photo/138385844
Were you told to dream big and then when you had the brass to mention it or think you might perhaps deserve better than this - told what a spoiled selfish loser you really are and that despite working so hard for the last decade or more that you haven't gotten there due to your own laziness and never will because dreaming is just plain stupid (never mind the lack of opportunity, education, and time and money it takes to accomplish it all on the salary of a full time retarded floor sweeper?)
Are you secretly talented and intelligent and realize that people only ever judge you by your uniform and income bracket and dumb yourself down just so you don't have to answer questions about your apparent lack of upward mobility which just doesn't mesh with the baby boomer mindset, so you realize it's just easier to play along?
Are you sick of baby boomers telling you about all their get up and go when all they ever did was buy housing cheap and then re-rent or sell it high thus enabling them not to sweep floors when they were downsized for the 3rd time...? Not to mention our income does not have the same buying power theirs did. (Oh and they still expect us to carry the weight of their retirement btw...the one you will never have) and complain about how their 401k lost money during the stock crash and now all they have is a meager 80k from riding the waves of corporations like Monsanto and Evil Doers USA yet they never think once about the types of things they've been investing in and talk to you like they are really awesome for having been so smart as to invest in Haliburton, Blackwater and Evil R Us to foot the lifestyle of the old and gray and still clinging on to their sell out youths?
Are you tired of Millennial spawn of sector A telling you you're a loser because you have never had the will to travel (because they are too spoiled to realize traveling is a luxury for those with parents wealthy enough to foot the tab) ? Same as that pricey school but shhh (they don't know their parents are underwater for it) add to that new cars all while they have their hands and health insurance still stuffed deep in their heli-parents pockets?
Are you sick of the apparent lack of concern for upward mobility in America and are beginning to realize that despite all your dreaming you my friend have been relegated to the service sector in a life-long sentence?
Well if you answered yes to one or more of these questions - you just may be part of generation f@#$ed but don't worry too much more- eventually we're going to f@#%^ing rock this big mother of a boat titanic economy (they just don't know it yet) because we're so civil and well behaved - for now...but generation fucked our time is coming - it's our time down here!!!
hmm too close to home huh? Bunch of college pampered helicopter kitties on this forum or high and mighty preaching boomers who have conveniently taken up every cause but that of the working class? That's what's wrong with this movement ...bunch of talkers - who aren't living what they preach about - there is no truth in that (go cry about your student debt or the fact that your retirement is still 3 years off to someone else - why don't you start a non-profitable except for the $200,00 administrative costs charitable trust for yourselves - boo hooo hoo) and leave this Occupy stuff to the working class big kids who have their backs in it?
Unfortunately, the working class has been shoved under the bus a long time ago and I may add that they defended the people shoving them there as their champions. They were "too busy" producing to figure out how the system worked. Until they wake up, there is not much that anyone can do for them, really. I do see signs of change, though, recently.
Those who still have jobs look down on those clinging to their parents' nests. I can assure you that they are not doing it because they like it. They are doing it out of necessity. It is in the same line as the new gifting economy.
It is the unpleasant truth that we are ALL really mucked(get a college degree and there will be a good job waiting for you, instead, crushing debts and no job) and mugged(defined benefit pension plans converted to 401k's, various IRAs, then the "ownership society," booms and busts, persistent inflation, yes, yes, yes, work till you drop dead on the job if you are lucky, if not, rot yourself away hopefully quietly in poverty).
They've been busy destroying our right to organize.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/meet-the-other-kochs/
Would you like to discuss those that are trying to remove all minimum wage laws?
They just can't pay us little enough to satisfy their pleonexia.
There are multiple ways to achieve living wage. Minimum wage laws is one. Collective bargaining through unions is another. Expanded earned income tax credit is another. The gifting economy is an emerging way. We should use all of them to achieve a living wage.
The aging baby boomers and the generation X and Y can work out a kind of family gifting economy because the baby boomers have already inherited or will soon inherit the greatest accumulation of wealth that the world has ever seen and they will SURELY age, get sick, and die. In that process, they will need care of different kinds so the generation X and Y can get "living wage" by taking care of the aging baby boomers. Although no money has to be involved, it can also be involved once the baby boomers realize their own mortality. This can be a forerunner of the gifting economy. Love your family.
Of course, but it's the unions they been attacking for half a century or so.
How can you articulate the value of collective bargaining through unions to the generation X and Y? They see how well off some union pensioners are and they become jealous instead. The capitalists knew how to turn the younger 99% against the elder 99% through their rhetorics as if one group's gains are at the expense of the other group's. Such a zero-sum society NEVER existed - how else can the capitalists make more and more money WITHOUT creating more money?
Money does not grow like grass - they are created from nothing but a few more magnetized magnetic domains on the hard drives of select financial institutions (the arcane hidden-in-plain-sight NON-PAMPERED helicopter Cheshire kitties). The two groups are so busy blaming each other that they have their shirts stolen right from their backs, both figuratively and literally. Over the long term, I have only seen justice and fairness maintained through the balance of power. Unions representing Labor can be a counterweight to Capital.
Ummmmmm.
Does that mean you are anti-union, pro-union, or just noncommittal?
I am none of the above, any of the above, and all of the above depending on the context and I am NOT being contradictory. Right now, unions can be very helpful in many industries. Increased minimum wage is also desirable so is expanded earned income tax credit. The gifting economy is still relatively invisible but growing in importance.
Forty years of declining wages. That's what we've had, for all workers. We need a full on labor movement that includes all workers because until all of labor is respected no labor can succeed. When any work is devalued, all work is devalued.
Do I really need to drag out the charts that show the decline of unionization, going hand in hand with declining wages?
You're talking to neowobbly here, but thinking you can offer no support until you can unionize the whole world is silly.
We must take steps where we can to support the working people of today.
and the first and most important step you can take in that regard, is support for the unions that exist today..
Whether people admit it or not, EVERYTHING is subject to the laws of supply and demand. The success of the West in "liberating" Eastern Europe, China, India, and other emerging market countries meant that we had added BILLIONS of people to the global labor force so the oversupply of labor created the race-to-the-bottom phenomenon. Without strong walls, the U.S. labor force was underbid and lost out. Who took out the walls? None other than the people's "champions" who had their own agendas. Democrats or Republicans, Bill Clinton or Newt Gingrich, Charmander or Geoduck all had a hand in this dough.
Those billions of laborers need to be union organized. The U.S. labor force should count itself lucky that we still have no need (I hope) for nets around buildings to catch jumping laborers.
Supply and demand is what they manipulate.
Union YES!
It's not that hard to understand.
It is very simple if one truly understands what "Labor needs to be free!" means for the land of the free.
Free labor?
Interesting concept, have you run that one by the Koch's yet?
It's simpler than that
Just say it loud and clear.
Union YES!
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I am well aware of the declining unionization in the U.S. And, yes, it goes hand in hand with declining wages. But, how did this happen? Why was this allowed to happen? The ball was dropped right on the foot of the American worker who needs to find a venue for the labor struggle that will work. If it is unions, fine, but it hasn't been working, frankly.
And, I have always supported unions as they are the little tiny bit the American worker has had, but it just isn't enough.
It happened, because corporations spent the money to make it happen.
They're still spending that money too.
I posted on it just the other day, but you didn't comment on it, so I'll provide the link for you and see if you will now.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/meet-the-other-kochs/
Right. We live in a corporatocracy. How did that happen?
Obama and the TPP:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/fast-tracking-the-future_b_4658954.html
It's a plutocracy. You should know that by now.
BUT
As usual, your response has nothing to do with what I posted.
That post Named names and provided numbers.
It had nothing to do with the TPP. Another subject entirely.
Just for the record though? And I won't continue to drag the TPP into this thread. As you seemed to be serious in talking about unions.
I'm against it, but it's been in development for a decade or so, and there are many people Worldwide that are against it.
Talks of the fact track have been around for far too long now for that to even be true any more.
Well, shooz, seems the plutocrats get their money from the corporations, so their interests are the same. Plutocracy, corporatocracy, I kinda like the new modern name of corporatocracy, seems more fitting. And, it's not another topic for me. I think unions will weaken further under the TPP. We need an overhaul to the system that puts people first, not profit, only then can unions get any of their strength back and only then can the American worker regain his dignity.
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They have names like Koch, Peterson, Pope, DeVos and many, many more.
I'm very disappointed, you didn't follow the link, and so had nothing to say about it.
Union YES!
Have you ever studied history? There is a difference between a trigger and a deeper cause. When we look back on declining wages and declining union membership it will be free-wheeling capitalism that is the deeper cause. I think those people are awful, evil even, but they are working within a very sick system that needs changing.
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stop repeating yourself and hating on unions and comment on this please.
It represents today's reality.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/meet-the-other-kochs/
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So let me see if I got this straight?
You're not anti-union.
You're not pro-union
and
You're not noncommittal?
You'll excuse me if I fail to see how you could be all of those.
Are you aware that OWS is pro-union, as well as pro co-op?
Live long enough through various fluctuations over decades and you will understand what I mean. This is why I hold some wary respect for "ancient" (not very ancient really but forgotten and may have to be revisited in reality) wisdom. Let me try to explain through a metaphor. Is water good, bad, or evil? Is ice better than water or is steam better than water or is water superior to ice or steam or both? My answer is, "It depends!" We need to have an accepted value system and a concrete context before answering these questions definitively.
Union YES!
It's much easier to understand. It's all about the workers.
We need to keep in mind that the union must serve the workers, never the other way around.
Ahhh.
So your not pro-union.
that's exactly the line I used to get from libe(R)tarians in the early days of this site, almost word for word.
It's a dog whistle, for all unions are corrupt.
Do you have a pre prepared example at the ready?
Or a rumor?
because you won 't support unions unless they are pure and perfect?
Like you are?
Unions are made up of a cross section of us,,,,,, the workers. That's assuming that you are one.
Like us, they are not perfect, but they do provide representation, and they lead in negotiations.
Oh and they provide a grievance system, that you won't get fired for using. oh.... and health and safety personal, if the contract provides for that.
Wanna bet that place that blew up in the Oklahoma the other day was a non-union plant?
.
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Who knows anymore.
I am very tired of all the anti-union sentiment around here that tries to pass itself off as being pro-OWS.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
It IS possible to build a more perfect union out of imperfect human beings. I believe in human tendency to abuse power, to corrupt, to grow arrogant, to become complacent, etc. but I also believe that these can ALL be transcended by the CONTEXT.
Some adult cancer cells injected into embryos can grow into normal tissues. Our bodies break down all the time but their functions remain intact over decades. If society sends the correct signals to the financial cancers, they can become normal tissues. Destroying some cells is an integral part of maintaining the overall functioning of the body. Nearly all human cells were programmed with "self-destruct" mechanisms so that the few may die so the whole shall live.
Pro-union, does not come with caveats.
I repeat.
Since you must have missed my previous response.
Lab rats are yet another sector in BAD need of unionization.
Glad you reminded me.
I am pro-union as long as unions are pro-workers because presently there is an imbalance in power between workers and Capital so unions can help restore the proper balance to benefit all before the imbalance worsens more. I have lived long enough to have seen the pitfalls of excessive union power so yes, I can be paranoid about unions as much as I can be about Capital.
As you know, unions can provide the muscles necessary to enforce workplace safety rules but extremely strong unions can suffocate businesses, too, to the detriment of the workers, the owners, and the customers. Young people tend to see black and white. I, having been young once, understand but I have understood the "fifty shades of gray" in the intervening years. Using water as a metaphor, California can welcome rain now but New York-New Jersey did not like that much storm surge water from superstorm Sandy.
Pro-union, doesn't come with caveats.
A shame that you would post this today.
http://www.peteseeger.net/talkunion.htm
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History tells us that the "Let them eat cake" philosophy only works for so long before a revolution comes to redistribute the resources. We are at the cusp of that now. The situation young people find themselves in is completely unsustainable.
Revolution is inevitable if these greedy grubbers aren't smart enough to see it coming and make the necessary changes to allow the masses to live a decent life.
And, 85 people (human beings, I assume) have wealth equal to the 3.5 billion (yes, billion) poorest human beings on earth, that is half of the world's population.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2014/01/23/the-85-richest-people-in-the-world-have-as-much-wealth-as-the-3-5-billion-poorest/
So, we are all in this together and we have numbers on our side. Occupy Wall Street! Never give up on the 99%!
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what is an education in a rat race? are the educated the ones who partake or the ones who enjoy? if quality of life is the degree of success then the scale is in the eye of the beholder
"Will: See, the sad thing about a guy like you is in 50 years you're gonna staht doin some thinkin on your own and you're gonna come up with the fact that there are two certaintees in life. One, don't do that. And Two, you dropped a hundred and fifty grand on a f*in education you coulda got for a dollah fifty in late chahges at the public library"
we're all in the same boat we just can't get rid of this class mentality - most jobs are meaningless and dead end the sad fact of life right now is that you're pretty much indentured and there are very few who are going to escape the drab monotony - those who earn more however still like to delude themselves and refuse to change the system by joining with those who aren't making ends meet by gleaning from their existence the idea that somehow they are happier and better off for doing a little bit better than those other people. We could have a better world, one with meaning, but there is noone brave enough to go there and call it what it is...it's not lazy to reject a system that is soul crushing - all life deserves dignity and magic and dreaming. Dreams should not be reserved for those who are willing to ignore the human eco-system and treat human beings like machines and numbers ...or for those who have state and federal jobs.