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Forum Post: Gaming the System, Just Capitalism, Corruption, Product of Too Many Lawyers, No Limit to Compensation

Posted 1 year ago on May 15, 2013, 10:22 a.m. EST by Middleaged (5140)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Capitalism or Conspiracy. Sounds like a board game, right?

US Justice System in effect has created many Industries since there are few Standardized, Detailed, US Business Models, Restrictive Intellectual & Copy Right, Property Rights, Few Protections in Transparency for Investors, Few absolutes in GAAP Accounting Rules, No limit on Shell Companies, No enforcement of or Requirements for Corporate Tax and Executive Compensation Off Shore, No Requirement for Payroll deductions Off Shore, No Restrictions on Overhead written off of Revenues, No Streamlining of Income Taxes, No Alternative Minimun Tax on Wealthy Income Brackets, No Restrictions on Lobbying, Campaign Contributions, and Gifts to Congressmen. By the 1980s there was a crack down on write off of Lunches, Dinners, Entertainment, and Strip Bar Bills on Corporate Tax Bills.... but this doesn't seem to apply to Wall Street and Congressional Gifts.

Look at all these Industries and Jobs created out of "Gaming" the System and Courts:

  • Tax Accountant Industry
  • Tax Lawyer Industry
  • Lobbyist Industry in Washington DC, K Street & All
  • Foreign Lobbying, Foreign Government Lobbying
  • PAC, Think Tank, Foundations Industry
  • Secret regulator Industry through revolving Door, offer of jobs, favors, trust Accounts, Deferred Compensation through special corporate Trust, Investments, Mortgages at special Rates, offers for Government Posts in the Future, Crony Capitalism
  • Secret Financial Industry, Private Banking, Hidden & Expensive Compensation that is complicated enough to hire additional financial managers, Choosing Winning Trades in Stock Markets to Reward Congress or other Insiders as compensation or in return for Political Favors in the future
  • Teams of Lawyers to Fight for Corporations in Court, Strategize for Industry, Influence Universities & Associations, and to Influence Seated Judges, Court Circuits, and the Supreme Court
  • Teams of Financial Managers to approach all Union and Public Pensions and Retirement Funds, as well as Health Insurance, Dental Insurance, Life Insurance, Long Term Care Insurance, Auto & Home Insurance
  • Lawyers to Deregulate and Strengthen Bankruptcy Laws against consumers, credit law, Cut Worker Rights, Cut Union Rights, Keep Interest Rates High against consumers
  • Lawyers to Privatize Commons, Destroy Social Security, Destroy Medicare, Destroy Progressive Legislation
  • Lobbyists to take us to War, and Fund Defense, Security, and Prisons, last big win was DHS creation, which created a whole industry all at one time
  • Corporate Lobby Industry to coordinate with Europe, Asia, and Latin America on Treaties to instill corporate Values and Proprietary Rights, as well as Neoclassical, Neoliberal Economic Policies to keep central banks and lower class that will work at low wages

Well lots of Industry has been created in the US where we have so much money. And we enable the spending of money by allowing unlimited executive compensation without effect or notice by Corporate Ratings Agencies. We enable the "Gaming" of Income Tax, Corporate Tax, Lobbying, and Capture of our Institutions by allowing unlimited write off of Wages & Compensation of Lawyers, Lobbyists, Financial Managers, and Accountants.

  • Let's Impose a Tax on the number of nonproductive employees that "Game" the System and or the Contract Money spent to "Game" the system. Lawyers, Lobbyists, Financial Managers, and Accountants.

  • Or let's put restrictions & Ceilings on the total number of employees as a percentage of productive activity within an organization Lawyers, Lobbyists, Financial Managers, and Accountants.

  • Or let's put restrictions on the total resources and or employees put on in corporate civil lawsuits, fighting the SEC or Regulators, or Criminal Prosecution against the company, either defensive or offensive ... as these tie up the court system, strain public resource, cost public money ... and they can be a huge advantage in Courts, Federal or State Courts ... one way might be a Tax, maybe a Ceiling on Total Employees or Dollars Spent, or Prohibit the Write off of Taxes through Claim of Normal Expenses to come out of Revenues.

  • Everyone know we should Reform the Corporate Ratings Agencies. Remember when the United Way or March of Dimes had the Scandal in the 1970s for having huge over 60% Administrative Costs. And that was a Charity.

  • Now the Ratings Agencies sell ratings to corporations. If we take away the ability to sell ratings or organizations to give money of any kind to the organizations Rating them... then let's Rate Corporations, Bonds, Stocks, by including demerits for having shell companies, off shore headquarters, ... complicated organizations to avoid taxes, ... and having TOO MUCH Overhead to Game the System, Too Much Compensation for Executives, having over 50:1 ratio for CEO to worker compensation, ... and having little Transparency

Well, Let's hear some Solutions. I'm sure someone is reading these posts for solutions

Hey, Loneranger, these may just be Corruption and Racketeering. I know your post is about Conspiracy. Any thoughts here? The thing is None of the Industry Jobs listed above adds to the US Economy, US GDP, or adds anything "Patriotic" to the USA. We would not miss anything by limiting the number of Lawyers or others "Gaming" the System.

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73 Comments


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[-] 6 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Only 2 people responded to this Post. Clearly, some think I am a partisan, a republican, or a libertarian. BUT I WILL TELL YOU: I have been rejected by the Republicans and Conservatives for 30 years.

The fact that people don't read my posts or acknowledge that I am a human, that I have an legitimate opinion, that I have the right to self determination, and that I can be espouse an unpopular opinion and still be a man, or an American, or be a teacher... Means that this Forum is going down.

If we don't have democracy here in a OWS Forum. This country is toast.

If I can't try to show you conservative business principals or economic ideas... and even though I am pretty much a socialist, no one will recognize my knowledge or writing... This OWS forum is toast. G8 protesters may live. G20 Protesters may live.

But this forum is dying due to narrow mindedness. Which is okay. Things have to take the course and die. You should know why you are dying. But it is not like you can kick people out of the forum.

The forum is open.

But the probably might be my personality. I don't like confrontation. Many people are like this.

We have to confront each other. GF is a good case or business case analysis. Girlfriday is a looney. She wants to take all of us down to the street level to fight. She wants to condition all of us to use Urban Language or Street Language. It is like Junior High School. But remember... Junior High School was Anti-Study and Anti-Intellectual as well as being racial and bigoted.

Not to pick on anyone in particular.

All OWS Forum Regular members know the mature influences and the younger influences that are trying really hard.

This is Tribal. How do we enforce opinion and ethics on members that are cruel, unethical, or Fascist???? Well the group has to all say the same thing. There has to be doctrine. I assume even anarchist would say we all don't want certain behavior here. We want to outlaw street language to promote intellectual language.

Well I am inexperienced and uninformed.

I don't know how anarchist would think even if this was an anarchist group. Tribal rule seems about a small local vote to decide a persons fate and how a person should act. Not sure I like that. I have not liked Catholics telling me how I should act or behave.

But OWS must make decisions at some point to move forward. Most of us separate Morality from Ethics, and Separate Group decisions from Individual Decisions. If it is my life, I should decide if I can smoke a cigarette, marijuana, have gay sex, support alternative lifestyles, and join a Socialist Political Party.

But the fact is that you are in danger if you join a third party in the USA and worse if it is socialist.

Fine. Whatever. Don't read this post if you think I am a Libertarian or whatever. I am a socialist.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Truth is, I read just about every post put up, but I don't respond to all of them. It also doesn't mean I didn't learn anything from them as well. I imagine I'm not the only one like this. So, try not to take the lack of response personal, MA. A lot of good posts fall by the wayside.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

True. Here is a list of Industries that don't self regulate:

1) Auditors & Ratings Agencies

2) Accountants

3) Federal Economists

4) US Tax Accountants

5) US Corporate Lawyers (fat chance, eh?)

6) Financial Managers working princely benefits for Executives

7) Wall Street Traders & Managers picking accounts for winners

8) Traders working the market with computers and naked short trades

9) Investors that have seen the corruption

10) But, Private Banking will not police itself... there is no mechanism or interest in policing itself. It does not have a self regulating agency. It doesn't belong to any regulatory system. Private banking can create risk and fraud and whatever else... no one is there to report or comment.

11) Have you ever heard of a corporate association that regulates corporations across the board?? No. That is because they are state managed. But states don't put any requirements on the corporations that fall under the state.

Sorry, GM. I know I was feeling like a Martyr when I posted the above. It is true. I am a human and I feel down sometimes. I know that sometimes I want to toot my own horn or state my grievances. And after wards I feel guilty.

I guess... I stated clearly that I am not a Libertarian, so maybe I can now get on with my life. =;o)

[-] 3 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Congress has Socialized Health Care as I have been telling you since I came here to the OWS Forum. So does the Military. Federal Employees have Subsidized Health Care. The point is only that there are Winners and Losers in the USA.

Check this video at 5 minutes in ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtwGxeY3_7E&feature=player_embedded#!

You may not like him, but he seems to tell the truth about government... or at least he is trying to tell the truth ... even if he doesn't know Economics, modern Banking, Fiat Currency, or the value of Social Safety Net programs...

And BTW I don't know if he supports Social Safety Net programs.... Maybe he does.

The people in government don't have to worry much about benefits if they are at the Federal Level. This is partly because the powers that be would rather have employees supporting them and going along with the program... than protesting.

It is an interesting distinction.

Federal Leaders don't want to deal with Internal problems when the have a domestic crisis. Look and Learn

Okay big deal, there are some Federal Strikers and Ronald Reagan Broke some of the Unions which were important to Infrastructure.

But for the most part, the Federal Government has capitulated to Federal Unions. The Pensions were cut in the 1980s, but the trade was for 401K type program. The federal employees get cheap health care and cheap life insurance. Life is good.

The Point: Looks like benefits are cheap compared to Federal Bailouts. Looks like Federal Grants for College Tuition would also be cheap. If we had cost controls for drugs and hospitals... Health care would be much cheaper. Subsidies for Doctor housing and Doctor offices would help the program. Federal standardized forms for insurance would also help. It looks like the Health Care industry is being "Gamed" to benefit those that expect profits.

"Gaming the System" is dirty and unethical. Matter of fact many businesses in the USA might be dirty and unethical. These are not growth activities in any of our Industries in the true sense. These industries are drags on the Economy.

It is worth the time and effort to look at the Economy and Growth of Industries for OWS members. Government Numbers (as most here already know).... are simply Spin.

How to combat Government Spin? I guess this is where everyone makes fun of me.... Internet watchdogs are the only thing I know.

[-] 3 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

BTW of course, NSA, IRS Scandals just distract from real reform in the short term. Congressmen just position themselves for more power. BS is still just BS even when the truth is in the media on a narrow scandal.

Washington Sucks. The Media just keep pretending to be impartial or independent. Life sucks.

[-] 3 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Black Panther on Obama Corruption, 30 minutes in, he talks about how COINTELPRO has been codified into the Patriot Act, NDAA, and the President's Kill List.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtuQlByCRp0

[-] 3 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

When No One takes the fall and the leader President Barak Obama doesn't take responsibility for the Failures and what looks like Corruption... then you have an Appearance Problem. A Likeability Problem. An Integrity Problem.

In the End despite the great motivator of keeping the presidential Team together.... The "Optics Look All Wrong".

A) TBTF Banks were not Investigated, an Army of FBI Lawyers was not put together to Investigate Wall Street Fraud
B) No Corporate Executives on Wall Street took any Blame or were Prosecuted for the 2008 Financial Crisis and AAA Rated US Junk paper
C) TBTF Banks are Bigger than Ever and so are Media Corporations, Oil, Agriculture, Chemical, Consumer Products, Big Pharmacy, and Defense and Security Corporations
D) There is No Transparency in Federal Government or in Corporate America
E) Wealthy People and Corporations are Gaming the System and often pay No Taxes (See Post on 29 US Corporations that paid no Tax)
F) No Talk About US Jobs, US Manufacturing, US GDP, US Economy, and Integrity of US Jobs Data

Then you have new Scandals:

1) Fast & Furious Gun Running Program run by DOJ
2) Drone Assassinations
3) Global War seems to mean human Rights Violations & Suspension of Due Process
4) Huge Budgets Spent on DHS & DOD and all the 14 Agencies that Spy
5) No Real Budget Control in the Administration
6) Obama is Really a Right Wing President that has Expanded War
7) Privacy & Individual Rights are not discussed with Respect at all, not in any way by Obama
8) DOJ Spying on reporters
9) DOJ Campaign against Whistleblowers
10) LIBOR & ISDAfix scandals, MF GLobal Scandal, Perigrine Financial Scandal... coupled with Loss of Pension Funds, Retirement Accounts, and the 2008 Financial Crisis ... shows lack of Respect for people on Main Street at a time when GOP plans to terminate Social Security
11) DOJ Just let out of Jail the Executive behind ENRON Scandal, Kenneth Lee Lay
12) Benghazi Scandal where it appears some military support would reasonably been available and a Navy Admiral was Relieved of Duty
13) IRS Targeting of Political Groups
14) Barak Obama saying he was not aware of any of the above Scandals, incidents, management actions, and had no briefings about them prior to the Headline News

The Optics Looks all Wrong. Either President Obama knew or his Staff knew... and so we should now see people Fired or Retired as a resolution for the American People to see they STILL have a Voice that is heard by the US President.

[-] 2 points by gsw (2697) 1 year ago

Frontline current production, "The Untouchables", should be informative!

http://kcts9.org/hero/frontline-untouchables-1222013

Also

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/untouchables/

Watch at this link. It is very informative.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Thanks. Sounds Important. I will check it today....

[-] 2 points by gsw (2697) 1 year ago

Second link. Mostly stuff we know too well.

Very welcome.

Justice for all!

[-] 3 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Censure Corporations by setting Rules that prohibit them from Lobbying and Writing Leglislation on

1) Health Care Industry
2) Banking reform, Private banking Reform, Derivatives Reform
3) Accounting Reform
4) Corporate Tax Reform
5) Ratings Agency Reform
6) Corporate Executive compensation reform
7) Hedge Fund Manager Tax Reform
8) Exchange Markets Reform, High Speed Trading Reform, Naked Short Selling Reform, Precious Metals Futures Reform, LIBOR Rate Reform, ISDAFix Reform,
9) Congressional Financial Conflict of Interest Reform
10) Citizens United Court Ruling Court Reform & Campaign Finance Reform, Election Reform


If Bankers, Investors, Financial Managers don't want US Taxpayers and US Voters to know the true US Economic Picture and the meaning of various GDP type activities ... then they should be Stifled and Ignored if not Censured by Congressional Law ... Just as we should Censure Bankers in regards to Private Banking Reform and Reform of the Derivatives Industry... and how Corporations should be Censured in regards to reform of Shell companies, Rules of Incorporation, and Accounting Rules.

[-] 3 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

What is inherent in company write offs of Auto Purshases and Car Leases... that isn't inherent in the man on Main Street???

You all have noticed this.

Companies and Corporations get to write off all kinds of purchases & Expenses... Either Depreciation of Capital Equipment or the purchase price. I guess it comes out of the business revenue before taxes on profits.

Want to Stimulate the Economy?

1) Let Main street write off expenses for car purchases
2) Let Main Street write of the Interest on Auto Loans or reduce the Interest on Auto Loans down to 3-5% Max.
3) Give Main Street a boost up by creating a Max on Student Loan Interest Rates at 1%.
4) If Manufacturing is no longer important in our Service Economy ... then let Main Street Write off Purchases of Services like staying in Hotels, Eating out in Restaurants, Going to the Theater, Going to the Movies, Buying DVDs & CDs, Buying Software, Buying Aps, Etc.
5) And since we must Invest in the Future, lets Write off extra lessons and schools for our kids, sending kids to a tutor or a coach for sports, music lessons, art lessons, language lessons, math tutor, financial management, philosophy, engineering, computer programing, or Robotics Design.

And by the way since women are more oppressed with lower wages and benefits ... and corporations & Executives get to write off more taxes in loopholes, Deferred Wages, and Special Tax Rates... Seems like we really need to make Main Street Equal to Corporations and all the Write offs of Business Expenses.

What is it that makes Women Inherently deserve Higher Tax Rates and Lower Compensation???

If we can discuss this then maybe Awareness of the Issues will increase.

A) Why does our government pay Interest on Loans from US Banks

B) Why do we charge our College Students High Interest Rates when college and tech schools is the best way to invest in our young Workers or future workers

C) If the Big 3 Auto Industry is important to our Economy like the "Cash For Clunkers" program ... then why wouldn't we consider Interest Free Auto Loans

D) If the US has been largely Decapitalized as Factories moved Off Shore ... then why wouldn't the Federal Government measure the total dollars Decapitalized in the USA since the 1960s.... and measure and be honest about the loss of Velocity of Money, the Multiplier Effect, from loss of Manufacturing, Transparency

E) IF all Jobs don't provide a strong multiplier Effect in the US Economy ... like Banking, Financial Management, tax Preparation, Law work, Lawsuit activities, Court & Criminal Court Activities, Prison Employment, Insurance Activities, and Accounting Activities,... THEN the BLS, DOL, OMB, Treasury, and Federal Reserve should be Honest and want to see the data Reported to the US Voters & Tax Payers regarding stratification of US GDP categories or types, and Economic Benefits that Result.

F) If Bankers, Investors, Financial Managers don't want US Taxpayers and US Voters to know the true US Economic Picture and the meaning of various GDP type activities ... then they should be Stifled and Ignored if not Censured by Congressional Law ... Just as we should Censure Bankers in regards to Private Banking Reform and Reform of the Derivatives Industry... and how Corporations should be Censured in regards to reform of Shell companies, Rules of Incorporation, and Accounting Rules.

[-] 3 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Actually, Loneranger, your hypotheses is that Canada, USA, & UK have to win Financially, Corporate Bank-wise, Ideologically, Spin-wise, and Militarily.

  • You probably don't believe in the Public relations messages put out by the Current Administrations, Press Secretaries, Lobbyists, Think Tanks, Foundations, and Central Banks.
  • But you are a Kind of Believer, you believe in Crony GOP Ideology and Status Quo.
  • You are not a kind of True Believer in Constitution, the USA, Liberty, Freedom, Free Speech, Free Press, Self Determination, Self Actualization
  • You believe everyone should conform to Crony-Sell-Out Networks to secure a Career, probably you don't mind that Ideology has stolen the Integrity of US Educational Institutions, regulatory Agencies, and the US Congress
  • You don't mind that 401Ks, Pension, retirement Plans, Public Pensions, State Retirement Plans have fallen Victim to Financial Salesmen who were just out for Fees and Bonuses
  • You Believe in Noble Lies, and in Manipulation for the Good of Empire

How Else Can You Live with yourself after your Country, or Wall Street Banking, "Ruined" it's Reputation in Investment Banking through AAA Rated Junk Financial Instruments sold through out the world.

How Else Can You Live with yourself after your Country Fabricated Dangerous, Criminal Lies on WMDs in Iraq and took NATO to War in Iraq.

How Else Can You Live with yourself after your Country Proved "It Can Not Be Trusted Internationally to Make Cases for Either NATO, UN, or US Military Actions". And this not so long after Vietnam War and Iran Contra Deals Proved to be "Bald Faced Lies" to our People.

How Else Can You Live with yourself after your Country, or Wall Street Banking, created an Industry for Subprime Mortgage Packaging that had nothing to do with FNMA, FMAC, FHLMC, government-sponsored enterprises (GSEs), The secondary market channels funds to borrowers by facilitating the resale of mortgages and mortgage-backed securities (MBSs). Unless you say there was a conspiracy with FNMA & FHLMC CEOs to aid in selling & marketing subprime mortgages in contrast to their mandates. The fact is there is no place for NINJA Loans or Subprime Mortgages in Government Sponsored Mortgages.

Hey maybe we could list some Conspiracy Fabrications, Official Conspiracies or Noble Lies and try to sort them out as hypotheses, Fact, Fraud, or Racketeering?

  • President Clinton Threatened US Banks to force them to make Subprime Mortgages, he said the Federal Government would take legal action against them as a kind of Discrimination. This is Myth, Conspiracy Theory... see above GSE and their mortgage requirements. Wall Street created a secondary market to package subprime & NINJA Loans to sell to investors. The effect was a huge demand for these mortgages because of the incentives for bankers who made fees and bonuses. This is called a perverse incentive. See Gresham's Dynamic.

  • US Banks, CITIBANK, and US Lobbyist Deregulated the Banking Industry so that they could do anything they wanted. In fact they don't even follow GAAP Accounting rules strictly speaking as many transactions can be "off balance sheet", Shell Companies are common, and banks can create "farmers insurance" type companies to avoid taxes on Investment gains. And Executives further game the system by hiding income and retirement compensation in Trust Accounts Off Shore. All of this gaming of the system including years of special loopholes to reduce taxes, capital gains taxes under George W. Bush, and special class carried interest for hedge fund managers... proves conspiracy, racketeering, RICO Violations, corruption. Fact, a Trust Conspiracy part of neoliberal ideology.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/loans.asp
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/easescredit.asp
Seems that Deregulation Designed by Lobbyist for Banks is the mechanism that enabled subprime Housing Crash, CDO, CDS, and much of the problem with Derivatives

Community Reinvestment Act had nothing to do with subprime crisis article, by: Aaron Pressman on September 29, 2008

Fresh off the false and politicized attack on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, today we’re hearing the know-nothings blame the subprime crisis on the Community Reinvestment Act — a 30-year-old law that was actually weakened by the Bush administration just as the worst lending wave began. This is even more ridiculous than blaming Freddie and Fannie.

The Community Reinvestment Act, passed in 1977, requires banks to lend in the low-income neighborhoods where they take deposits. Just the idea that a lending crisis created from 2004 to 2007 was caused by a 1977 law is silly. But it’s even more ridiculous when you consider that most subprime loans were made by firms that aren’t subject to the CRA. University of Michigan law professor Michael Barr testified back in February before the House Committee on Financial Services that 50% of subprime loans were made by mortgage service companies not subject comprehensive federal supervision and another 30% were made by affiliates of banks or thrifts which are not subject to routine supervision or examinations. As former Fed Governor Ned Gramlich said in an August, 2007, speech shortly before he passed away: “In the subprime market where we badly need supervision, a majority of loans are made with very little supervision. It is like a city with a murder law, but no cops on the beat.”

http://www.businessweek.com/investing/insights/blog/archives/2008/09/community_reinv.html

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Geo-Corruption, whoever this guy is I hear the ring of honesty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcbLvO0-huQ&feature=player_embedded#!

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Rumsfeld Gave Chemical Weapons to Iraq as US Envoy in the 80s.

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/18/world/officers-say-us-aided-iraq-in-war-despite-use-of-gas.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_war

http://www.examiner.com/article/u-s-blatantly-violates-the-chemical-weapons-convention-says-iran

"As the main possessor of chemical weapons, the United States of America, which is itself a member state of the Chemical Weapons Convention, has blatantly violated the CWC by not implementing it," Vahidi said in a message on the occasion of national day of fighting against chemical weapons on Wednesday.

Vahidi stated that the Islamic Republic is the biggest victim of chemical weapons, a gift to former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein's regime by the Western powers.

During the Iraq-Iran war, the US supplied Saddam Hussein with chemical weapons. The former Iraqi dictator used 2,500 tons of chemical weapons against five Iranian border provinces.

The U.S., of course, denies that allegation but evidence suggest the U.S. may have an hand in Iraq’s chemical weapons development.

According to one article, "a letter supposedly written in 1995 by former CDC Director David Satcher to former Senator Donald W. Riegle, Jr., points out that the U.S. Government provided nearly two dozen viral and bacterial samples to Iraqi scientists in 1985--samples that included the plague, botulism, and anthrax, among other deadly diseases. According to the letter from Dr. Satcher to former Senator Donald Riegle, many of the materials were hand carried by an Iraqi scientist to Iraq after he had spent 3 months training in the CDC laboratory” (see article: Did the United States Supply Saddam with Biological Weapons in the 1980s? http://hnn.us/articles/1283.html?page=2 ).

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/history/husseinindex.htm

http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/26825

How he US armed Saddam Hussein with chemical weapons Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 10:00 BY NORM DIXON On August 18, the New York Times carried a front-page story headlined, "Officers say U.S. aided Iraq despite the use of gas". Quoting anonymous US "senior military officers", the NYT "revealed" that in the 1980s, the administration of US President Ronald Reagan covertly provided "critical battle planning assistance at a time when American intelligence knew that Iraqi commanders would employ chemical weapons in waging the decisive battles of the Iran-Iraq war". The story made a brief splash in the international media, then died. While the August 18 NYT article added new details about the extent of US military collaboration with Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein during Iraq's 1980-88 war with Iran, it omitted the most outrageous aspect of the scandal: not only did Washington turn a blind-eye to the Hussein regime's repeated use of chemical weapons against Iranian soldiers and Iraq's Kurdish minority, but the US helped Iraq develop its chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs. - See more at: http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/26825#sthash.UkRCaXHC.dpuf

Nor did the NYT dwell on the extreme cynicism and hypocrisy of the current US administration's citing of those same terrible atrocities — which were disregarded at the time by Washington — and those same weapons programs — which no longer exist, having been dismantled and destroyed in the decade following the 1991 Gulf War — to justify a massive new war against the people of Iraq. - See more at: http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/26825#sthash.UkRCaXHC.dpuf

Just more Corruption

Just more "Gaming of the System" more "Corruption of Government".... I think it is time that all governments say they are sorry for reductionism, for downplaying dangers and conflicts of interest, for having individuals in government participate in "Relationships" with Industry which clearly benefited government employees careers and "Did not help the People of the Country they swore to help"

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Women of the world Unite. Roundup and Glyphosate in parts per trillion or parts per billion leads to Ovarian and Breast Cancer.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23756170

"....Glyphosate is an active ingredient of the most widely used herbicide and it is believed to be less toxic than other pesticides. However, several recent studies showed its potential adverse health effects to humans as it may be an endocrine disruptor. This study focuses on the effects of pure glyphosate on estrogen receptors (ERs) mediated transcriptional activity and their expressions. Glyphosate exerted proliferative effects only in human hormone-dependent breast cancer, T47D cells,...."

"Glyphosate induces human breast cancer cells growth via estrogen receptors."

http://www.naturalnews.com/040808_glyphosate_breast_cancer_drinking_water.html

"Now the evidence is becoming clear: Monsanto's chemicals are killing women"

"Ten years later, California lowers its level by just 10%"

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/06/glyphosate-roundup-carcinogenic-in-the-parts-per-trillion-range-2685484.html

http://www.activistpost.com/2013/06/study-glyphosate-roundup-feeds-breast.html

Glyphosate [Roundup - used on Monsanto's GM crops] induces human breast cancer cells growth via estrogen receptors [Food Chem Toxicol. 2013] - PubMed (ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)

http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/1gicah/glyphosate_roundup_used_on_monsantos_gm_crops/

Just more "Gaming of the System" more "Corruption of Government".... I think it is time that all governments say they are sorry for reductionism, for downplaying dangers and conflicts of interest, for having individuals in government participate in "Relationships" with Industry which clearly benefited government employees careers and "Did not help the People of the Country they swore to help"

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

You Would you like genetic engineering with your fries!! lol

Thanks, bud. I guess it is the same issue. My first response is that it is a lessor issue, then I think it is an indirect issue, then.... well it is the same issue!! The same issue if we think about it!!

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (24955) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Same issue with two targets - Monsatan for it's work and McD's for their use of it. If we can get users to stop due to boycott - then we are a step forward in ending Monsatan.

This is exactly why labeling of frankenfood is being fought against - as it would help effective boycott and also the pressure to stop frankenfood gen-engineering.

[-] 3 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Accurate Strategic Thinking there. You are right on.

1) Reflecting that Money is an Easy power, but is offset by Activism.
2) Propaganda is an Easy power, but is offset by the Internet and Social Networking.
3) Political Networks are an easy power, but are offset by educated and informed masses.
4) Lobbying is an easy power, but is offset by the educated and internet exposed.
5) Banking and control of Financing is an easy power, but is offset by the educated and internet networked.
6) War is an easy power to control resources and strategic locations, but is offset by the educated and historically informed.
7) Oil is an easy power since is represents wealth and money, but is offset by educated and informed populace.
8) Agriculture is an easy power since people must pay when the food is controlled, but is offset by education, knowledge of history, and the internet.
9) All Financial Commodities, Financial Products, and Financial Rates are an easy power since controlled by Wall Street, but are easily controlled by informed citizens, activists, conservatives, progressives, Punkers, Anarchists, and Mothers.

Just more "Gaming of the System" more "Corruption of Government".... I think it is time that all governments say they are sorry for reductionism, for downplaying dangers and conflicts of interest, for having individuals in government participate in "Relationships" with Industry which clearly benefited government employees careers and "Did not help the People of the Country they swore to help"

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (24955) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Exactly = Just more "Gaming of the System" more "Corruption of Government".... I think it is time that all governments say they are sorry for reductionism, for downplaying dangers and conflicts of interest, for having individuals in government participate in "Relationships" with Industry which clearly benefited government employees careers and "Did not help the People of the Country they swore to help"

Did not help the People of the Country they swore to help

Not only is not helping but is actively destroying/poisoning

And ALSO so correct =

All Financial Commodities, Financial Products, and Financial Rates are easy power since controlled by Wall Street, but are easily controlled by informed citizens, activists, conservatives, progressives, Punkers, Anarchists, and Mothers.

Attacking corp(se)oRATions effectively = Boycotting their products ( and services = another type of product ) as well as their associates.

They can lobby all they want ( until we remove that option ) but that will not help them in loss of business/money/power.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Hope we have both contributed. I know you make great points.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (24955) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I know you make great points.

Thx - as do you. And - I too hope we have contributed and will continue to contribute - to the making of a healthy and prosperous world for all.

[-] 3 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

And they are giving a peace prize or nobel to Monsanto this week? Well, the system has over played it's hand.

1) We know the Media is Useless and Corrupted by money & Career
2) We know the Government Officials are Useless and Corrupted by Money & Career
3) We know big money, big corporations, lawyers, lobbyists, ratings agencies, accounting agencies, and regulators are behind the corruption.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (24955) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

3 = Yep = #2 bought and paid for = #1 tool of #3 to keep the public in the dark.

Good thing foreign countries are not lying down to accept genetic engineering. Gives the public a chance to do the same here.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Noticed that biggest protests are in areas with less than 60% fluoridated water. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation_by_country

Maybe the USA, Australia, & Ireland are about the same and we don't have the biggest political activism. Asia is embracing Fluoridation, but think China had some problems and had to discontinue.

India has a lot of activism as does Pakistan, Egypt is in the news, Brazil is in the news, Sweden is in the news, Spain is in the News, Venezuela is in the news

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (24955) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

We will need news from those areas to make people here at home stop and think - take a look around and see the parallels.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

I think I see your point. I've been thinking the Brazil Protests are exactly like what is happing in the USA. Brazil is now a very rich country with lots of wealth. But the president Russeuff is either now someone's puppet or doesn't really understand Economics and that spending money can create an expansion of the Middle Class.

Anyway Brazil's Ghettos are famous. I keep hearing that we have huge numbers of homeless in the USA as well. But you can't build a squatter's house or a clapboard house in the USA... Well maybe in Louisiana or Texas or some places.

The point you were making is that the Elites & the Oligarchy of the USA want to cut social programs including social security & Medicare.... They want to suppress the wages & Benefits ... and none of the PTB want to create new Industry through creating a good healthy environment for new businesses to arise.

Crisis, WHAT Crisis? Jobs, Manufacturing, Economy, Industry... We face plenty of problems in the future which could become new industries. But we have pulled so much capital out of the USA... that we can no longer call this a capitalist country. We have a mixed economy with capitalism, socialism, crony capitalism, fascism, duopoly, plutocracy.... and we know now that our financial markets are not free markets are rife with fraud, fraudulent ratings agencies, fraudulent accounting agencies... and with Price Fixing.

So clearly the USA should be Renamed and Reframed to something Suitable.

How about we change the Name of the USA to the Forth Reich?? I changed my mind. I used to say we live in a James Bond Movie, but actually we live in a Robert Ludlum Novel where the Evil Traces back to the End of WWII as Russians and Americans sought out Nazi Collaborators for Expertise and future weapons programs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratlines_(World_War_II)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Jewels_(Central_Intelligence_Agency)#Leaks_and_official_release

A six-page summary of the reports was made available at the National Security Archive (based at George Washington University), with the following introduction:

The Central Intelligence Agency violated its charter for 25 years until revelations of illegal wiretapping, domestic surveillance, assassination plots, and human experimentation led to official investigations and reforms in the 1970s.[3]

The complete set of documents, with some redactions (including a number of pages in their entirety), was released on the CIA website on June 25, 2007.[6]

Operation WASHTUB was a CIA-organized covert operation to plant a phony Soviet arms cache in Nicaragua to demonstrate Guatemalan ties to Moscow. It was part of the effort to overthrow the President of Guatemala, Jacobo Arbenz Guzmán in 1954.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyman_Lemnitzer

President Ford appointed Lemnitzer to the Commission on CIA Activities within the United States (aka the Rockefeller Commission) to investigate whether the Central Intelligence Agency had committed acts that violated American laws and allegations that E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis (of Watergate fame) were involved in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

Another Commission, Rockefeller Commission, set up to Control the American People. Ford Appointed this guy? I just lost respect for Gerald Ford.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (24955) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (4834) 0 minutes ago

Yes. There was an acronym in the movie Inside Jobs used by Financial Managers on Wall Street. Something like I won't be here when it falls. IWBHWIF. That looks too long though.

I'll be gone when it hits, IBGWIH.

Really Evil, Crass, Cynical, Criminal Group Think.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

The absolute worst outcome of insanity being portrayed in real life.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (24955) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (4828) 10 minutes ago

The aweful and Ironic thing is all sides can see it coming.

1) The Elite or Oligarchs in their gated communities 2) Federal politicians in their gated communities 3) Police & Law Enforcement 4) Republicans 5) Democrats 6) All others

The republicans seem to be the gun owners and they see Riots in the future, but then they have always. maybe it was the Riots of the 1960s and 70s.

But look if we all see Social Break Down Coming, why can't we stop it? Why can't we get the right people and Networks in Washington DC?

My answer is that Leaders will lose financial backing, careers, bonus money, and networks... if they go against the PTB.

Or could it be a kind of Group Think. Maybe the PTB would like solutions, but they all think it is impossible politically.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Absolutely = THEY CAN SEE IT COMING

Why is government going along with it? Denial of reality???

They either don't believe the truth of what will follow their actions = CHAOS & DEATH MASSIVE CHAOS & DEATH

Or Are Hoping not to be alive when it all hits the fan - and have no regard for any of their descendents who will be.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yes. There was an acronym in the movie Inside Jobs used by Financial Managers on Wall Street. Something like I won't be here when it falls. IWBHWIF. That looks too long though.

I'll be gone when it hits, IBGWIH.

Really Evil, Crass, Cynical, Criminal Group Think.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (24955) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Exactly

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (4828) 6 minutes ago

Yes, Corporations are not patriots, can not fight in wars, can not die for their country, ... they pursue a mission, objectives, and strategies to increase the revenues, profits, and executive compensation while lowering the Tax Liability.

There is no help for us if Federal Government, Central Bank, and Federal Regulators are captured by Wealthy Interests. It is profit, and hang the Externalities.

Externalities are things like clean air, water, earth, farmland, forests, indigenous people, global cultures, oxygen producing oceans, and quality of life for people, living wages, self determination, self actualization, education, health, health care, solvency, debt, health care debt, education debt, pensions, retirement money, homeless elderly, homeless kids, disease, cancer, famine, expensive food, expensive energy, home heating, and birth defects.

In economics they discount Externalities. Externalities are not part of the Neoliberal Economic Model. Neither is Fraud, Crime, or Lawlessness.

Brazil is experiencing an Externality to the Economic Model.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Bottom Line = A Corp(se)oRATion's only goal/allegiance is to making money - the most money possible at the very least investment - and to do so by any ANY "ANY" means possible. They have no loyalty to country and they have no care for life - neither country or life is a part of ( consideration of ) their charter of operation.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (24955) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (4828) 0 minutes ago

Yes, I think we have 10,000 Homeless kids in my immediate area from what I can tell. You are right. Actually I am into Science Fiction. I still remember reading Dune by Frank Herbert as a kid. Dune seemed to be the perfect story at the time. Prince Harkonnen was really just a corrupt bad guy with 2 sons that were just as corrupted. I should read it again as memory fails. The Guild Controlled the Spice, Space Flight, Space Transportation.... And there were many Interest Groups, Power Groups, Politicians, Families with famous names.

But it was all about Power, Money, Control, and how much you can defend and hold on to.

It is an illusion that we have escaped feudalism. Yes, we formed new democracies, but the power players keep writing new rules, changing the rules, controlling out government & politicians, and control the money, control the credit, control wages & benefits, and most important control the biggest Government Budget and Spending which is done at the Federal Level and through Central banks.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Yep - good story ( series ) Frank Herbert ? Anyway replace spice with oil and bring it down to planetary scale - convert the various players into fossil fuel companies - and figure the middle east as the source of the spice/OIL - and You end up with a fair accounting of the ongoing struggle of our times.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (24955) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (4828) 2 minutes ago

Thanks. I live in a small area of maybe 1 Million, I think I heard that we have like 20,000 veterans homeless here. Maybe I can do a web search for links.

And with SNAP, Food Stamps, being automated you will never see food lines at soup kitchens. I run into a lot of people buying groceries with EBT cards.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Sure - they are seen ( food stamp recipients ) but not recognized - as it just looks like anyone else using their credit or debit card. But if the Corp(se)oRATions and their Corp(se)oRATist representatives in government have their way and are able to cancel the needed social safety nets - the safety nets that they have made more necessary than ever before. Well - can you say chaos and mass death?

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

The aweful and Ironic thing is all sides can see it coming.

1) The Elite or Oligarchs in their gated communities
2) Federal politicians in their gated communities
3) Police & Law Enforcement
4) Republicans
5) Democrats
6) All others

The republicans seem to be the gun owners and they see Riots in the future, but then they have always. maybe it was the Riots of the 1960s and 70s.

But look if we all see Social Break Down Coming, why can't we stop it? Why can't we get the right people and Networks in Washington DC?

My answer is that Leaders will lose financial backing, careers, bonus money, and networks... if they go against the PTB.

Or could it be a kind of Group Think. Maybe the PTB would like solutions, but they all think it is impossible politically.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (24955) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

How about we change the Name of the USA to the Forth Reich?? I changed my mind. I used to say we live in a James Bond Movie, but actually we live in a Robert Ludlum Novel where the Evil Traces back to the End of WWII as Russians and Americans sought out Nazi Collaborators for Expertise and future weapons programs.

Shades of RoboCop Corp(se)oRATe world or ( and at this rate we would never survive long enough ) Brian Herbert's Timeweb Chronicles - about a galaxy wide Merchant Prince Alliance that plunders planets as a matter of course - leaving them an ecological ruin. Like I say good story - but I doubt we could live to see it happen - as the Corp(se)oRATions will see us all dead long before we have the ability to travel beyond our solar system.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yes, I think we have 10,000 Homeless kids in my immediate area from what I can tell. You are right. Actually I am into Science Fiction. I still remember reading Dune by Frank Herbert as a kid. Dune seemed to be the perfect story at the time. Prince Harkonnen was really just a corrupt bad guy with 2 sons that were just as corrupted. I should read it again as memory fails. The Guild Controlled the Spice, Space Flight, Space Transportation.... And there were many Interest Groups, Power Groups, Politicians, Families with famous names.

But it was all about Power, Money, Control, and how much you can defend and hold on to.

It is an illusion that we have escaped feudalism. Yes, we formed new democracies, but the power players keep writing new rules, changing the rules, controlling out government & politicians, and control the money, control the credit, control wages & benefits, and most important control the biggest Government Budget and Spending which is done at the Federal Level and through Central banks.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (24955) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Crisis, WHAT Crisis? Jobs, Manufacturing, Economy, Industry... We face plenty of problems in the future which could become new industries. But we have pulled so much capital out of the USA... that we can no longer call this a capitalist country. We have a mixed economy with capitalism, socialism, crony capitalism, fascism, duopoly, plutocracy.... and we know now that our financial markets are not free markets are rife with fraud, fraudulent ratings agencies, fraudulent accounting agencies... and with Price Fixing.

Currently the USA is being USED as a material resource - and damn safety or sanity in any measure to get those resources out of the ground and into the market place - even if it ends up destroying all life as we know it.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yes, Corporations are not patriots, can not fight in wars, can not die for their country, ... they pursue a mission, objectives, and strategies to increase the revenues, profits, and executive compensation while lowering the Tax Liability.

There is no help for us if Federal Government, Central Bank, and Federal Regulators are captured by Wealthy Interests. It is profit, and hang the Externalities.

Externalities are things like clean air, water, earth, farmland, forests, indigenous people, global cultures, oxygen producing oceans, and quality of life for people, living wages, self determination, self actualization, education, health, health care, solvency, debt, health care debt, education debt, pensions, retirement money, homeless elderly, homeless kids, disease, cancer, famine, expensive food, expensive energy, home heating, and birth defects.

In economics they discount Externalities. Externalities are not part of the Neoliberal Economic Model. Neither is Fraud, Crime, or Lawlessness.

Brazil is experiencing an Externality to the Economic Model.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (24955) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

The point you were making is that the Elites & the Oligarchy of the USA want to cut social programs including social security & Medicare.... They want to suppress the wages & Benefits ... and none of the PTB want to create new Industry through creating a good healthy environment for new businesses to arise.

Short answer? Exactly.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (24955) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Anyway Brazil's Ghettos are famous. I keep hearing that we have huge numbers of homeless in the USA as well. But you can't build a squatter's house or a clapboard house in the USA... Well maybe in Louisiana or Texas or some places.

You will not hear about the homless in the USA - not in any meaningful account of the situation just as you will not hear about the widespread poverty.

AND yes that is a parallel with many rich countries as well as Brazil the #6 largest economy.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Thanks. I live in a small area of maybe 1 Million, I think I heard that we have like 20,000 veterans homeless here. Maybe I can do a web search for links.

And with SNAP, Food Stamps, being automated you will never see food lines at soup kitchens. I run into a lot of people buying groceries with EBT cards.

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago
[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (24955) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

LOL - attack of the killer tomatoes.

Not so funny though when separated from that cheesy B movie - and put into the light of genetic tinkering.

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Yep. The light's beginning to shine on the folly of GMO's.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (24955) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Round-up causes breast cancer - OOOPS says the FDA - how did that get by.

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Hmmm, it couldn't be because of the overwhelming number of men on the board, could it? Nah. And the fact that most of them either did work or will work in the future for Monsanto is merely coincidental. Well within statistical probability, we assure you.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (24955) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yes your health ( public ) is in no way compromised by our wanting to be paid big bucks for non-interference. Wanna buy a bridge?

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Yes, your health is of no concern. Nothing to worry about. Have a nice day.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (24955) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Remember folks to buy burial ins so as to not burden your family - not like you need to do it immediately or anything - but soon would be good.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Yeah, you won't need it anytime soon. I mean, the rat tumors didn't get really big until after a year of eatin' the stuff, and what's that? Like 40, 50 years to a human, so not to worry, people, not to worry. Hell, our good friends over at Bayer (did I mention my brother-in law works there?) absolutely say that cancer will be cured in 10 or 20 years. Seriously, I just don't understand all the brouhaha.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (24955) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Sure sure people not to panic - so what if your baby has gills - just think of how safe they will be in the water. Just light a match 1st before putting em in - want to make sure the water is not flammable.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Our scientist's believe that the gills will in fact be beneficial. With rising sea levels predicted to claim millions of dollars in prime real estate over the next decades, these gills will allow that land to remain viable for the foreseeable future.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (24955) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (5131) from St Louis, MO 11 hours ago

Hey since you mentioned it, check out this EPA list of contaminants found in our water. You may have come across it before though:

http://water.epa.gov/drink/contaminants/index.cfm

That's just ridiculous, DK. Absolutely ridiculous.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Yeah I've seen that. People this is why people are no longer dying of old age - but are dying of one disease or another - not to mention getting sick at early age with cancer or something else.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (24955) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

People all that needs be done is for the AMA to come up with something to counteract the toxins in the water - easy peasy - Hey?

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Hey since you mentioned it, check out this EPA list of contaminants found in our water. You may have come across it before though:

http://water.epa.gov/drink/contaminants/index.cfm

That's just ridiculous, DK. Absolutely ridiculous.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Example of how a Union can try to implement methods to prevent "Gaming" of the system at it's corporation in terms of Benefits, Executive Compensation, and Excess Corporate Overhead which puts the future of the organization and Union at Risk.

I'm a hack, but this has probably been used by Unions in the USA for 100 years. At this point I would say it is Risk that has to be watched.

1) First thing new workers and union members must prove they understand their corporate or Syndicate Benefits Packages and the overall Business Model in order to participate in voting and community activism. (This means workers have to get "Savvy" on Business Education)
2) Probably you need to require new workers to take a Test to prove knowledge of the Business Model, Expenses, Overhead, Pensions, Benefits, and Wages.

Blah, Blah, Blah.... Now looking at Executive Compensation at levels of 200:1, you call that a pressing, abiding Risk.

If you are a government Employee of Chicago... you are probably looking at Retirement, Pension, and Benefits for senior workers and Union members that is too high, unsustainable, and an abiding Risk.

What is the Difference between a Syndicate Worker & a US Union Worker?? No Idea. Probably nothing.

The point is each worker in the USA has to Learn Business & Finance in order to understand who is gaming the system, how they are gaming the system, ... and how the Lawyers & Bankers plan to take away their Retirement.

I think we can all agree that lawyers & Financial Managers are not your Friends

Mergers & LBOs are always a threat since new managers & Stock holders can cancel Retirement & Pensions, and layoff most of the older workers.

I guess this is what OWS is all about. Setting up Legislation to change incorporation Rules, Merger Rules, LBO Rules... any Rules that are need to prevent Reckless Actions to Run up company Debt, Issue huge Dividends to Foreign Stock or Bond Holders in a Financial Firm... and break up the company, the factory, the manufacturing faculty, and put all workers into the breadline looking for Social Programs and unemployment. As I say:

1) Executive Compensation is a huge Risk
2) Rules of Mergers are a huge Risk
3) Rules of Incorporation are a huge Risk
4) Finance Rules or lack of Rules, lack of Protection, Lack of Regulations are a huge Risk
5) The Culture of Gaming the System, the culture of Capitalism, the culture of "Me First", the culture of Wall Street Banking, and the Culture of a US Congress that is controlled by Corporations, Banks, Private Banks, and the Wealthy is a huge Risk to a union worker & any shop where work is being done.

My sense is there are better business rules & regulations in Germany where there is a marriage between government, corporations, & Unions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhine_capitalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_model
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripartism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_corporatism

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

lolwut?

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Public Pension Funds have invested in Zombie hedge Funds which are not providing returns, and which will charge a penalty for early withdrawl since many of these hedge funds are Set up as 5-10 year minimum investment period. The Funds invest like Venture Capitalist taking over businesses which they hope to turn into huge profits. There was a couple of News articles on this on line this year. I think it was the Wall Street Journal. But after 2008, the Funds no longer produce and Investors are Stuck in them.

I also heard that many Universities got talking into investing in Real Estate with the Trust Fund that is set up to pay for Yearly Expenses and Salaries.

If Employees were heavily involved in the details of their Benefit Plans they may have been able to stop the Stupid Financial Risks taken by their corporate or government financial manager.

As I understand it some Public unions are doing well with keeping track of this kind of Risk. There are probably examples of strong union oversight in private industry ... it just seems like unions have had their butt kicked this last decade.

Maybe DKA is the guy to ask... how to put this into perspective.

If it is your Benefit being managed, then your work force should be involved to prevent scamming.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

lolwut?

You have to actually put the funds in the kitty to begin with. Not intentionally underfund it with those people that are working continually paying into it.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

That is True. And if you get your fund funded, you need Blackwater to guard it from the Financial Managers. Sort of like the old West these days in the USA. Maybe hire the Pinkertons to guard the money...

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Actually, let's backtrack. How about putting back the original pension funds.

Lemme tell you how this went down. A bunch of lying conniving thieves didn't like the fact that they couldn't get their little grubby hands on the original pensions. So, then they decided that it should all be invested.

If you worked for a corp that had pensions the same thing went down only they sent in a bunch of lying conniving thieves that didn't like the fact that they couldn't get their hands on that cash and told them move it to a 401K AND you can also invest on your own.

So, how about we move it back to the original pension plans and since those that work pay into those plans way more than the general public is led to believe and everybody keeps their lying, conniving, thieving hands out of the kitty while the obligations to pay are kept.

Maybe you can ask DKA to decipher that for you.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Well, you aren't really tell us the methods involved.

Take QWest which I know nothing about. Employees were invested in the company stock... like ENRON ... then the companies went Bust. Apparently some CEOs, CFOs, Board of Directors or whatever group of Executives like to get their hands back on the money they pay to employees, it also strengthens the company stock, and may provide a mechanism for Executive insiders to sell stock while employees are buying stock out of their pay checks.

Maybe that scenario is like the boss wanting you to have a big new house mortage and a new Car Loan.

The other scenario looks like big banks lend money, buy bonds, and buy stocks maybe of the company... then they say (as you point out) ..."Look if we are going to keep buying your Bonds, let us manage your employee 401K Plan, Flip your employee Pensions into 401Ks, and we all win, we are all Happy".

Probably a 100 stories out there never told about how it happens.

What was the methodology in your mind? Not that it matters, Financial Managers are Salesmen, they probably try to put on airs of being powerful (which they are), and of being smart, connected, insiders. Might as well call Financial Managers "Scalpers".

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Well, one of the methods that they used for corporations was (depending on whom you worked for) was to hold classes. Mandatory classes but I digress. So, you would go in and listen for 2-3 hour to a con artist to inform you of a decision that had already been made.

You pay x amount into the pension fund and it is to be matched. The employer has decided because they are matching then they make the call for it to be invested or rolled into a 401K.

In every state that there are pension problems it has occurred because of intentionally not paying the obligated portion. You are operating under the assumption that you have a RIGHT to do what constitutes theft.

You are basically saying we are going to continue to take that money and do whatever that we want with it and we have no intention of paying at any time and then we are going to blame the workers for it. Muhahahahaha.

No. There is another option. Revert back to the pension system as it was and keep your mitts off.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

You are right as far as I know. Most Retirement Accounts and Pension Accounts ... or anyway Many of these Accounts are under Funded. There is always a board, an Executive, or a Financial manager for the organization who is responsible and who is directing what seems to be a clear act of juggling the books or not meeting contractual obligations. (By not fully funding the Pension or Retirement Fund)

Of Course if they go into a Merger or Some Group Takes control of the Stock... then it seems they can fire high wage employees, terminate pensions funds, transfer funds into a 401K, and or ... outsource all the Jobs.

My Vision is that Labor can test employees and educate employees (Unions or an Association or Group).

I'm sure there are plenty of stories or accusations anyway ... about Unions and Union Leaders that have been corrupted by big money. So even if a Union has the Power to fight Pensions Identified to go into 401Ks... the Union has to be honest, has to educate, has to be Transparent, and has to have a lot of Activism.

Worker Activism has to be at the same level we expect of OWS advocates... or Citizen Voters.

I don't know what to do about all the Employees that lost Jobs and Pensions since 1970 as plants we shut down or mergers and acquisitions took place. There are old guys out there in my area still pissed that they lost pensions. They won't stand for a Take over of Social Security.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

No, there is a PR group and a politician.

This is not some convoluted shit fest. It's really damn simple.

Names. Dates. Laws. I have provided links prior to this.

I have a vision too.

Stop fucking the people. You see the whole educate is a shit game. Because there ain't no new game. It's the same damn game.

That was the first mistake.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

lolwot

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

the San diego bus system went partially private

now, people can't get transfers and must pay a great deal more to ride the bus

I'd wager someones getting rich off the minimum wage crowd

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yeah. We are all incompetent in finance or we have city, state, or federal managers that screw it up for us. Sounds like San Diego ran into some money problems. Of if not, they are now on the hook for the Risk of the Public Private partnership in the Bus System.

There was a guy doing a Rant on the Radio not long ago about Cost Plus contracts in the City. It seems a lot of Contractors offer to do a job for a minimum percent profit, but control the accounting, and may have the opportunity to add on expenses to increase the total contract value ... thus a percent profit actually goes up and costs the taxpayers even more.

I guess the Joke is that all government contracts have cost over runs that double at least... the total contract by the end.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

our friends could make much more money if we hand them the government system

cost the bus riders more

I don't care for the tax payers to be generalized as an oppressed group

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yeah, well contractors that do business with the government are probably in it to scam the system... Defense and Security Contractors being the worst that I know.

Business people tell you that they will help your organization reach the bottom line either more efficiently or cheaper or both.

But Business People are like Politicians. They say one thing, they do another thing, and when a review comes up they say a third thing.

Business is about outsmarting everyone, but it takes a contract first to get started.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Intellectual Property strategies allow Apple & Starbucks to not pay taxes in the Country where Profits are Made.

NPR Radio show, 21 May 2013,
http://www.npr.org/2013/05/21/185688463/ceo-cook-to-defend-apple-before-senate-committee-hearing
http://npr.alltop.com/
http://www.npr.org/2013/05/21/185809741/apple-tech-giants-and-an-industrial-age-tax-code?ft=1&f=5 (Apple CEO, Timothy Cook,says Tax code is out of Date and they want to control New Changes to the Income Tax for Corporations goes to)

Charles Duhigg, New York Times, Joined the Discussion with Jennifer Ludden, Host.

Shifting the Intellectual Property Rights is just part of the Tax Strategy to Avoid Taxes in the USA, In California, in the UK, in France, Etc. The Intellectual Property Rights or the Decision Making is made off shore or in California, ... therefore, we owe no taxes and don't have to file taxes at all in some jurisdictions.

And think how important Intellectual Property Rights are in new International Treaties like the TPP.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Reposting here as not sure it would be read on previous location.

I was just ruminating that in education as all things in the USA the people in control seem to want to dumb us down and remove deductive thinking, inductive thinking, abductive reasoning, and analogical reasoning.

... because they, the PTB, want to do all the analysis and thinking as Executives, Politicians, Lawyers, Economists for the Government, and as Lobbyist, PACs, Think Tanks,.. and as members of Global Conservative Networks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasoning

3.4 Logical reasoning methods and argumentation 3.4.1 Deductive reasoning
3.4.2 Inductive reasoning
3.4.3 Abductive reasoning
3.4.4 Analogical reasoning
3.4.5 Fallacious reasoning

The Creel Commission was set up to help the Federal Government and the PTB control the people of the USA. (Perhaps that also explains the Warren Commission and the 9-11 Commission)

As Chris Hedges says thinking is a Seditious act.

So K-12 Testing doesn't lead students to deeper understanding of US & World History nor does it incentivize learning logic. But still people say that US Citizens are the most inventive, creative, and thinking work force. So it must be a plan to dumb down the people, the common people.

Look at the loss of investment in US Small Businesses since 2008 which are in fact the heart of the US Economy. Look at the Loss of investment in Job Training since 2008. Look at a US Jobs Program under Obama that never even got off the ground except to save government jobs, teachers, and emergency workers. Look at the Decapitalization of US Manufacturing. Look at the GINI Coefficient and the decline of US Wages. Look at the in sourcing of jobs for illegal immigrants and outsourcing of skilled jobs to other countries.

As you know all of this I am preaching to the Choir. Worker Rights, Labor Rights, Labor Rules, and Work Place Safety were put in place by 1970. So the PTB began a campaign to reduce labor costs, wages & benefits, work place regulations, industrial regulations, ... but also to create conservative institutions, to groom conservative university professors, to take control of the US MEDIA, to entrench conservative Economists in all parts of the system, and to establish conservative Think Tanks to keep repeating simple truisms or clichés that appear conservative, but in fact are oversimplified short criticisms that don't teach, inform, instruct or illuminate anything at all.

We would all be much better off if Conservatives started criticizing themselves. I'm guessing Republicans are all "Yes" men. I'm guessing many who had Progressive Ideals are keeping their mouth shut to keep their job & Career. So maybe that is a New Problem Statement for this long post. Downsizing the power of Executives, so that the Media & Work Force can have an opinion and job options.