Forum Post: Fly the Flag...In a way that shows the true distress of Americans today
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 20, 2011, 5:27 p.m. EST by divebum1
(87)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Personally, I think every flag in Zucotti Park should be flown upside down. It is the universally recognized sign of Americans in Distress! One last Caveat...there is no American Flag large enough to cover the shame of killing untold innocent civilians in Wars of Occupation in Iraq and Afghanistan!
The upside down flag is a bit ambiguous.. For the military, it means distress. When civilians do it, it usually represents extreme anti-Americanism.
No it usually means that Americans are in distress....look it up.
No...it represents America. When Americans burn the flag...that's Democracy. When Muslims burn the flag that's anti-America. But let's get it right. We all live and die for our rights. And anyone who says we don't is fucking wrong! SO I get to say what I want...right or WRONG!
"SO I get to say what I want...right or WRONG!"
Sounds divisive. It's still ambiguous. Free speech also goes to people that spread hate for publicity and ratings or web page hits to their blogs. They are desperate to misrepresent everything the Occupy movement does. People like Andrew Breitbart, James O'Keefe, and Glenn Beck will take any opportunity they can to spread as much hate in this country as possible and they don't give a damn if one of their followers starts killing people. There are already people like Byron Williams and Richard Poplawski that have already murdered people based solely on what these demagogues told them. You can do what you want and I can't stop you. But I do have the right to say that it's ambiguous.
Do you really believe that?
I believe that if the protesters start waving upside down flags, they simply will not be judged by their intentions.
This movement has a lot of potential to succeed.
But it is also has the potential to have its overall narrative (coming soon) overshadowed by douchebag pundits and bloggers that are eagerly waiting to turn it into the next scapegoat or red herring. Just like they have with gay marriage, sharia law, and the list goes on and on.
Maybe we do need a new flag. This is an occupation. To me the flag represent corporate empire. Not what the founding fathers had in mind.... Actually, let's wave the original star and stripes.... (too retro?)
"Actually, let's wave the original star and stripes.... (too retro?)"
I like it.
We'll us the original Betsy Ross flag
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betsy_Ross_flag
Which I think is way better than the Gadsden (Don't tread on me) flag.
Or maybe we can use the current one, but have 1 of the stars replaced by a half-star(representing the 1% that we don't need)??
Or.... We could spell out 99 using stars??
K.I.S. Keep it simple,
No. You are wrong. Extreme anti americanism burns our flag.
"Extreme anti americanism burns our flag."
You are correct that burning the flag is a display of extreme anti-americanism, but even that is ambiguous. The ceremonial disposal of worn out American flags involves burning them.
Yeah...but they usually don't wipe their ass with it first...
And I would defend with my life their right to do so....as I have already done.
If you want to alienate the vast majority of Americans, that certainly would be the way to do it.
I fly a mixture of three flags - the American flag, the Rebel flag, and the Don't Tread on Me flag - because I think that one combined message best embodies the American spirit.
I disagree, and I think most Americans would also.
and I disagree. It would definitely be offensive to some. Is the amount of support it will receive worth alienating the people it will offend?
Also remember, the media gets to spin it in any way they like, and it will probably work against the cause.
I don't know , Brian. if you were getting shot at, and you needed help, would it matter how the media spun it? Your call. I'm on my own here. But I could use your help. Mike.
are you saying the people in NYC at Zucotti Park are being shot at?
I see a big difference between being in distress because you are being shot at and protesting because of a disagreement. I see it like calling 911 because the economy is in danger.
I believe the signs and demonstrations by the OWS gets the message across without needlessly offending, at least on this topic.
Most Americans are already sympathetic to Occupy Wall Street.
Also, it's not like you're burning the flag - you're signalling that our nation is in distress.
I get that, just sayin that it will offend many people, unnecessarily IMO.
Displaying the flag right side up and respectfully would be far more effective in uniting the 99%. It would also make less likely that people would to see this only as a leftist movement. The flag is a powerful emotional symbol of patriotism for most Americans.
Marines are as Patriotic as they come...
I'm not questioning the patriotism of anyone who flies the flag this way, just pointing out that others may react in ways which may not help accomplish our objectives.
Firstly, the objectives are not clearly defined. Secondly, Patriotism is a state of being, not an act of rebellion. I decline to be labelled as a rebel. If you choose to label me as one, label me as this; ("Dangerous: Secure his Hands behind his back: Capable of extremity in the moment of violence of action!" (Has killed under the color of war -3- )
Absolutely! But don't you think that most Americans who fly the flag also know that it signals a nation in distress?
There are no flag burners here! I think it's safe to say that OWSers and Americans of all political stripes love this country, and want to improve on it. They just don't agree on how to accomplish it.
I will say this. There are many who are chopping at the branches of what they see as the tree that is choking this country. I, and others like me, are going after the roots of that tree. When we find it, and we will; we will dig it up. And we will pull up every last bit of root from it. Trust that. As long as it takes. That's your sound bite. "As long as it takes." As long as it takes...
Like Jackson said on his death bed, "I killed the bank!"
Strike at the root of the many headed viper! Strike hard and keep striking, "as long as it takes."
I really don't know what the percentages might be, but there are those who don't know, and also those who do know but don't think the distress symbol as protest statement is respectful.
The other thought I had, isn't the distress symbol a call for rescue? In that way, it is a symbol of being powerlessness to extricate yourself from the situation.
I think the flag flown normally is a far more powerful symbol of willingness to keep fighting no matter what it takes.
"The rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air, Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there."
No...flying the flag upside down is a genuine call for help...for assistance...for reinforcements... call it! Call it now! Winter is coming!
I would never desecrate our Flag. If there was ever a time in MY life to display a distress sign...NOW is IT!
Yes and I daresay, things will get worse before they are going to get better. The Eurocrisis is starting to catch fire. Sunday is a critical day for the Euro and failing megabanks. After the Euro fails (as it ultimately will) I fear for people's life savings and the U.S. dollar. The stockmarket casino is soon going to run out of gas. When it does, this will be much, much worse than the Great Depression. This will be the Global Greatest Depression.
http://www.themultitude.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=258&p=1356#p1356
I served in the Navy. It is perfectly clear what he is saying. Get the fuck off his case. This country is in distress! Are you STUPID?
I really got no where else to go....
Let's see. You're queer. I'm here. I need a beer. Fuk dat. But I have skills you don't know about.
Just say it...go away...that will do...
I see more than you think I see...
listen...I' may be blind... but I'm not deaf...
So you are not gonna let me back on...
Is it true that flying the American Flag upside down is a type of...(No it is not)
According to Section 8a of the United States Flag Code, "The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property." This is a signal to all Americans to come to the aid of those displaying the American Flag in such a manner. It should be an indication to any who observe the Stars and Stripes flown in such a way as a cry for assistance and a plea for help to those who see it from a distance and from afar. Waving the American Flag in such a way should be construed as a cry for assistance and not be taken lightly by any foreign host. Help should be immediately rendered and protection offered to those under the Flag whose hand it raised.
The problem here is ego. Ego is frothing to the surface. It happens in every revolution. What usually happens though, is that the the people that wield that ego, get shoved out of the way. That's what is gonna happen here. I get to watch. I'm down here. Do you see me? The guy sleeping under the tarp? Yep? That's me. You go. I stay. So goes revolutions.
bannik311'Manage Foes' is my favorite personally configurable feature at the sister Forum, http://www.themultitude.org/. Imagine not having to look at the ridiculous anymore. bannik311 "Foes are users which will be ignored by default. Posts by these users will not be fully visible. Personal messages from foes are still permitted. Please note that you cannot ignore moderators or administrators
'Manage Foes' is my favorite personally configurable feature at the sister Forum, http://www.themultitude.org/. Imagine not having to look at the ridiculous anymore. bannik311 "Foes are users which will be ignored by default. Posts by these users will not be fully visible. Personal messages from foes are still permitted. Please note that you cannot ignore moderators or administrators
'Manage Foes' is my favorite personally configurable feature at the sister Forum, http://www.themultitude.org/. Imagine not having to look at the ridiculous anymore.
"Foes are users which will be ignored by default. Posts by these users will not be fully visible. Personal messages from foes are still permitted. Please note that you cannot ignore moderators or administrators
bannik311
'Manage Foes' is my favorite personally configurable feature at the sister Forum, http://www.themultitude.org/. Imagine not having to look at the ridiculous anymore.
"Foes are users which will be ignored by default. Posts by these users will not be fully visible. Personal messages from foes are still permitted. Please note that you cannot ignore moderators or administrators
'Manage Foes' is my favorite personally configurable feature at the sister Forum, http://www.themultitude.org/. Imagine not having to look at the ridiculous anymore.
"Foes are users which will be ignored by default. Posts by these users will not be fully visible. Personal messages from foes are still permitted. Please note that you cannot ignore moderators or administrators
'Manage Foes' is my favorite personally configurable feature at the sister Forum, http://www.themultitude.org/. Imagine not having to look at the ridiculous anymore.
"Foes are users which will be ignored by default. Posts by these users will not be fully visible. Personal messages from foes are still permitted. Please note that you cannot ignore moderators or administrators
'Manage Foes' is my favorite personally configurable feature at the sister Forum, http://www.themultitude.org/. Imagine not having to look at the ridiculous anymore.
"Foes are users which will be ignored by default. Posts by these users will not be fully visible. Personal messages from foes are still permitted. Please note that you cannot ignore moderators or administrators
'Manage Foes' is my favorite personally configurable feature at the sister Forum, http://www.themultitude.org/. Imagine not having to look at the ridiculous anymore.
"Foes are users which will be ignored by default. Posts by these users will not be fully visible. Personal messages from foes are still permitted. Please note that you cannot ignore moderators or administrators
'Manage Foes' is my favorite personally configurable feature at the sister Forum, http://www.themultitude.org/. Imagine not having to look at the ridiculous anymore.
"Foes are users which will be ignored by default. Posts by these users will not be fully visible. Personal messages from foes are still permitted. Please note that you cannot ignore moderators or administrators
'Manage Foes' is my favorite personally configurable feature at the sister Forum, http://www.themultitude.org/. Imagine not having to look at the ridiculous anymore.
"Foes are users which will be ignored by default. Posts by these users will not be fully visible. Personal messages from foes are still permitted. Please note that you cannot ignore moderators or administrators
Hit it...I dare ya's
bannik311
That initially didn't strike me like a good idea. But damn I think I'm convinced...It would probably help if each flag had its own signage contingent with SOS and US in Distress posters to prevent the media from spinning too hard. Thanks for the eye opener.
Thanks brother...every hand helps...
Thank you. Tactically speaking, you are my hero. Our one demand, as I believe that is all we can afford has to be: Amend the Constitution for government ONLY financing of elections, no contributions, from anyone; rendering Citizens United a moot point. It’s the only piece of this that resonates with the anti-establishment left, the anti-establishment right and everyone in between. Including many who make 350k+ believe me its great to make that kind of money but that doesn't mean you want to spend it on some ones (or even your own) campaign where the mega-corps and uber-unions are going to drown you out anyway. Oh, and its spin-proof. The logical contortions involved in trying to spin this would only push people to us.
So who is walking off with the money???
After 100 comments I become a troll...lookout...300,000 dollars makes some people see stars. So I am a troll. But what have I said? Go back and look at what I have said? Do not be bought out! Do not be sold out!
Even this has been co-opted
Divebum is a known troll. Please ignore all his threads and comments.
Can't find him...works for the guys collecting the money...I guess I am a Troll...what about him? Has anybody asked about him? Hit his marker? Where does it lead? No where.... The Deaf...being lead by the ..... look around you....
'Manage Foes' is my favorite personally configurable feature at the sister Forum, http://www.themultitude.org/. Imagine not having to look at the ridiculous anymore.
"Foes are users which will be ignored by default. Posts by these users will not be fully visible. Personal messages from foes are still permitted. Please note that you cannot ignore moderators or administrators
'Manage Foes' is my favorite personally configurable feature at the sister Forum, http://www.themultitude.org/. Imagine not having to look at the ridiculous anymore.
"Foes are users which will be ignored by default. Posts by these users will not be fully visible. Personal messages from foes are still permitted. Please note that you cannot ignore moderators or administrators
It also has a lot of potential to fail. Ask me all about it...
You can arrest a revolutionary. But you cannot arrest a revolution. Those who think they control the revolution, often find themselves in front of a firing squad...
'Manage Foes' is my favorite personally configurable feature at the sister Forum, http://www.themultitude.org/. Imagine not having to look at the ridiculous anymore.
"Foes are users which will be ignored by default. Posts by these users will not be fully visible. Personal messages from foes are still permitted. Please note that you cannot ignore moderators or administrators."
That is an interesting way of filtering out those you think cannot contribute to your cause. Good luck at it. It doesn't work. It's been tried before.
FLAGS UPSIDE DOWN! Thank you. Show Solidarity with Occupy WallStreet!
I believe it is time for all Americans to go out in their yards and turn their flags upside down. To show that America, the America they love, is in distress!
I dare you...FLY IT UPSIDE DOWN! Because I am coming. With my Flag. And mine will be in DISTRESS! FLY IT! TAKE IT TO THE NEXT LEVEL! What is a flag for? Michael....
Fly the Flag UPSIDE DOWN! It will attract the attention of the Media and the Military and the Tea Baggers and the rest of America!! It is the Universal American Sign of Distress and Call For Help! It is Unmistakable in it's meaning! No one will see it as a sign of disrespect! They will see it for what it is! AMERICANS CALLING FOR JUSTICE! Americans calling for HELP!
Leave the flag out of it. It is the last thing standing that represents everyone fairly.
No..it's the ONLY thing that represents everyone fairly...
Embassies, ships, stations, outposts, remote stations, foxholes. Fly the American Flag UPSIDE DOWN! IT is A SIGNAL OF DISTRESS! Help will come! Somehow, someway, someone, will come to your aid! AMERICA WILL COME! Is anyone coming to yours?
I can buy the biggest American Flag I can find and bring it down to (Liberty Park) and fly it upside down to prove my point. Should I do that? And call every Marine (former-active) I can to my side! Would that prove my point!
I'm guessing you are a marine?
Yes...and so was my brother...and he is dead...but I live for a better America...like he would have wanted and I wish for.
I'm sorry about your brother. My future stepson is in marine ROTC right now. I hope he is astute enough to sort out the truth from the lies in this great country that has been betrayed by our own leaders. He is young and does not understand the shameful injustice of these wars we are fighting.
Thank you for your service to this great country and for your unmistakable patriotism.
When I realize that there are service men and women who realize the truth, and they are willing to speak it and act on it, it makes me feel like we can win the hearts and minds of all of the people. It gives me much more hope. I have been reading about all of these things for almost a year now. I guess you could say sometime around the 2010 election I took the 'red pill'.
Those few in OWS who would badmouth the military do not understand the oath that they took to defend the very freedoms we are expressing right now. I also fear most do not understand how close we are to losing those freedoms altogether.
You have nothing to fear. Marines are not robots. On the contrary. They are America's Finest. When America calls, they will be there. Do not believe for a moment that America's Marines will betray Her to the despots who have taken over the cause that made Her great!
I was so moved by the video of Sargent Thomas when he defended ordinary unarmed citizens against the NYPD's brutal treatment.
His words were so true and so powerful:
"THERE IS NO HONOR IN THIS!"
Now, we must win over the police rank and file. They have families too. They want a future too. They will realize that they will be sold up the river eventually just like all of the 99%. The elite thinks it can just throw all of us away like so much trash onto the dustbin of history.
NO. We will win. We will speak the truth. We will defend honor. We will protect our children for now and for the future.
The Truth is...you are right. My problem is I have a service animal. But I am beyond worrying about getting arrested. I was...but now I am not. Where I go..she goes. I am not moving. She is not moving. We only have this one chance to get this right . If we get it wrong, the whole planet pays for our cowardice....I have grandchildren... I am ready to give everything I have.. for them...
I agree. If we lose freedom in America, there is no place else left to run.
He is dead and I am blind...is there anything else you would like to know?
We should be excited that we are getting to a place where real change is going to happen. Times are going to be difficult when the crash hits, but people are reading the constitution and thinking about liberty, and personal responsibility, the republic will come out stronger!
fly you flag with pride.
Fly it UPSIDE DOWN! Let Every AMERICAN KNOW! That America is in Distress!
Crying over spilled milk does not help anyone. We need to get up, clean up the mess and pour another glass.
fly the flag with pride
I think it's brilliant.
It is so right on, our nation is most definitely in distress.
We are...it's right...and the world will notice...
The next time I come to Zucotti Park (Liberty Park) My Flag will be flying upside down. (And that is soon. I am in LI but I am from the Canadian Border.)
I'm behind you 100%, divebum.
A powerful symbol, to be sure.
Thank you....Everyone feels the support...honestly...everyone does...
I wish you could know the truth about what your speaking about
I served four years in the Marines. Ask me about it sometime. My brother served with me. Ask me about him sometime. He's dead. I think I can speak with some authority.
I think he's right. Fly every single flag upside down. That will change the tenor of this protest.
I could be wrong. I frequently am. But I was never wrong for caring about the country I love or defending the values that made her strong.
Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease...true...but at least we will have a place to start. Soon we will stop hacking at the branches and look for the roots.
Men do not rally around pieces of cloth. They do not fight for flags. They fight for the women and children whose lives are hidden behind the walls the flags are flown upon. Marines have stood upon those walls longer than this country has lived. We have always been here, and we will fight along side what is right. That is why we are here. I did not fight for Wall Street. I fought for my Country. That she has a Flag is to each of us our great benefit. For without it, you would have nothing to wave but your hands. And who would follow anyone into battle against an enemy you are just now beginning to discover without one??
Think about how many flags are flown on Independence Day. If they were instead flown upside down, they would be a much more truthful tribute to the fact that our liberties have been taken from us, we are no longer independent, and most importantly, that we have been betrayed by our own government.
You are so right!!!
That thought was from Adam Kokesh (DC truth activist) who had a similar idea for this past July 4th - but people were still asleep; they weren't ready yet.
But they are waking up now!!
It is a signal that is taught to every wet boot Marine recruit as he enters Parris Island. It is not a new Idea, but an old truth come home. Raise THE FLAG IN DISTRESS!
I'm down with that! Let's show the ugly truth of how our government is abusing and mis representing the sole means; the base of this country established by the founding fathers!
I'm down with that! Let's show the ugly truth of how our government is abusing and mis representing the sole means; the base of this country established by the founding fathers!
I'm a former Marine. I fought for this flag. Did you?
I joined the USCG @ 17 years old, then the army. My mom, my dad, my brother, my uncle. and both grandfathers fought for this country. Fought so people had the right to freedom of expression...not so somebody could shut them up for not having served. Shame on you. The thing we fight for is the right to say what you want, to love the flag, to wear the flag, to fly it upside-down if you want. That IS the signal for distress. We are distressed and we are protesting. You need to join us and stop the nazi shit..........
You should be proud of your service and the service of your family members. We have defended their rights to say what they wish. It is defending the things we hate to hear that makes this the America we have defended. It is easy to defend the things we like to hear. I'm proud to stand with you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX2Ox1bHrmM
Relevant...thoughtful...moving...
You said it Brother!
I'm down with that! Let's show the ugly truth of how our government is abusing and mis representing the sole means; the base of this country established by the founding fathers!
I'm down with that! Let's show the ugly truth of how our government is abusing and mis representing the sole means; the base of this country established by the founding fathers!
No...wait...I've been banned...so kiss my ass....and lets have a party....a tea party
Burn the flag!