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Forum Post: Fixing the Socialistic Model

Posted 1 year ago on June 17, 2013, 12:06 p.m. EST by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Intro & some Confessions:

I hated studying economics ...& I loved studying math... so, I often tried to see economics from a math perspective....

Strictly mathematically, I looked at Capitalism as simply an Ideological approach to defining an economic & social system which strives for... Individual Freedom & Economic Prosperity ... promoting the private ownership of capital & resources...

please bare with me for a moment ....

Strictly mathematically, I looked at Communism as simply an Ideological approach to defining an economic & social system which strives for... Economic Freedom & Individual Prosperity .... promoting the shared & common ownership of capital & resources...

what does this mean; Economic Freedom ?..... to me it means being free from the "economic oppression" with is placed on the people when money accumulates into the hands of a few....

and what does this mean; Individual Prosperity ?..... to me it means allowing every individual the opportunity to prosper in the activities of their choice regardless of their born social & economic standing...

and similarly I see the Capitalistic Ideal, Individual Freedom as allowing every individual the freedom to do whatever they wish...

and I see the Capitalistic Ideal, Economic Prosperity as the overall building of wealth for the society through allowing incentives & individual ownership of what they build....

Now where does Socialism fit in ?

I realize that the overwhelming majority consider Socialism as a variation of Communism....

Strictly mathematically, I see it a little different .... I see Socialism as a compromise between the two seemingly opposing Ideologies of Capitalism & Communism ....

I see that in practice no where exists a Capitalistic model that works without applied exceptions such as regulations placed to help support the less fortunate ...

and in practice no where exists a Communistic model that works without applied exceptions such as incentives & private ownership of resources placed to help in the building of economic wealth overall ...

Yet... for the sake of this discussion I will submit to using Socialism as interchangeable with the Communistic model....

Now what is wrong with Socialism ? .... why does it need to be fixed ?

First... We all know that Capitalism has much wrong with it.... but that is a different discussion ...

And for my Confession... I am a Capitalist, even though I see the destruction it causes... I also see the benefits .... but above all ... I value my individual freedom .... and I have yet to see a Socialistic model that is capable of providing that freedom ....

And for another Confession... I believe in and support the Socialistic Ideologies of Economic Freedom & Individual Prosperity....

So... I believe that if we can design a Socialistic Model that allows every individual their individual freedom to do whatever they wish... aside from harming others.... we just might have a system that all will embrace with open arms....

How ?

well... I believe that we can write a zillion laws... providing this... with exception this.. etc.... for eternity ... what a mess ... ; )

How about... if we simply move ahead .... if we simply build a new system that unites all the Ideologies ?

A system working the Capitalistic & Socialistic Ideologies simultaneously, in harmony, equality and in balance ?....

15 Comments

15 Comments


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[-] 2 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 1 year ago

I've started the general story of the screenplay we can all create. Remember, this is in the very early draft stages, so snark is not needed; what is needed is solid ideas that may or may not be incorporated. Please go here if you want to see what's happening. http://createyourownreality-parksview.blogspot.com/

[-] 2 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 1 year ago

I believe it will help a lot if the ultimate society that results from these new ideas can be visualized. How about setting this out in a screenplay? I.e., that framework has now been established. Everyone is working at either producing or doing something in one of the two areas for capital and/or social income. Perhaps we could set the action in Manhattan. Our main characters could be two families with children in school. We follow their interactions with each other and their neighbors as they live in this new kind of world. The conflict, rather than between people, would be between the characters and one or two of the disasters left in the wake of the collapse of the previous gov't. This could show the new way as well as the mess left by the old way.

If you think this could be a fun thing to do, perhaps several people like Windyacres and others who understand and have vision could help create believable characters (always difficult because it requires actually seeing from another perspective; much easier if another perspective is built-in, as it were), I think I can write a draft screenplay. Maybe Michael Moore would like to produce a documentary about the OWS group producing a movie :) After all, the ability to create such a screenplay (usually only about 110 script pages) with no one taking credit or getting paid would in itself be an example of what working together can achieve.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

I like it.... I would also like to get Immortal Techniques' view on it ; )

[-] 2 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 1 year ago

I hope they check out this posting. If not, perhaps you can ask them to do so. Wandering around too many postings picks up too many fleas, it seems. :) I have a little more on the general theme, but am not sure I have the social/capital wealth thing right. Anyway, this is preliminary to the action:

The economy has collapsed, leaving it to the people to regroup and form a different way of doing things. Communities organize with a two-fold sytstem of wealth -- capital wealth and social wealth. Bitcoins serve as the measure of hours and all hours are remunerated equally, no matter what the work being done. All public service work -- medical practitioners, social assistance workers for the poor, educators at all levels, housing providers are rewarded directly for their efforts through SoCap.org, the payment center. Some areas lend themselves to both social and capital designations, such as environmental work. Researchers, for instance, can choose how to categorize their work -- they can own a for profit company and avail themselves of patents on their work, or they can simply work in exchange for social bc's and not require a patent.

I will start the list of characters, but this is a raw beginning and I hope others will join in.

Dr. Victoria Marshal - a surgeon employed in the Medical Center, as well as a researcher in surgical robotics for the family business, RoboCan

Jake Marshal - Victoria's husband. A robotics expert and CEO of RoboCan.

Jaclyn Marshal - Teenaged daughter

Vic Marshal - Adolescent son

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

I can't think about this too much right now.... but I like it....

as far as the social/capital wealth thing.... I have a lot... of what I think are answers as well as far more questions....

I have learned a lot since the beginning of Occupy and changed many ideas.... mostly from this & the nycga site....

one thing I was thinking about... is to start putting together a social/economic index or indicator .... which identifies and rates economic & social impact/s a company or organization develops thru their operations....

legatum ... started something like it for countries... years ago... which has now been picked up by MIT.... I havn't had time to keep up with it yet....

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 1 year ago

I know you are busy; I'm also sure we can incorporate a lot of what you are working on into the movie. I'll keep at it and stay in touch. Rough drafts are only a starting point.

[-] 2 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

Interesting idea and would be very time consuming to consider so many variables. How would it be similar, or different, than the Great Depression? Soup kitchens immediately come to mind, but how could we predict what would be scarce, yet extremely important?

What if there were a shortage of toilet paper? I discussed this with a friend recently and we had no answer. The outhouses my grandfather used could tolerate ripped up sheets or fabrics, but toilets would clog with those items.

I do like the bitcoin idea of measures of hours and the legatum index BradB mentioned.

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 1 year ago

It is a place to start; these things sometimes have a way of unfolding in their own way and in their own time. However, if we have a core idea for a screenplay, it is a way to explore the possible outcome of a new way of seeing the world and relating to it. I figure if we cannot imagine the future the way we believe it can be, we certainly won't be able to make it happen. I have time to write and edit and research this, but I would appreciate other perspectives and other people's ideas of possible characters.

[-] 0 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

how about the energetic well meaning young politician... who allows him/herself to get corrupted in the effort to get what he believes a very good project to success... ?

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 1 year ago

Good one -- that can be the backstory for one of our key characters (since we are in the future), and his spouse could be a teacher who has revised the teaching model dramatically. A way to show how we have to change what and how we do things.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

A system free of the chains of materialism is the way go.

People need to stop caring so much about how much money they have in relation to others.

Greed is part of the problem.

The rich want to get richer and the poor want to get richer. Everyone wants MORE.

[-] -2 points by klavvon (-7) 1 year ago

You can't fix central planning. It's flawed because it can't get enough info about the consumer and allocate resources as well as a free market.

Cuba, Russia, the Eastern Bloc and Iron curtain countries all went broke. Just look at the modern big statist programs like medicare, medicaid and social security. All will be broke in just a few years. And Fannie and Freddie's housing subsidies are already hitting the tax payer heavily. Ponzi schemes don't work, whether state run or privately run.

BTW, we haven't had capitalism in close to 80 years. We've had socialism and crony capitalism.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

sorry klav.... but I think you need to go back and study a bit more ...