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Forum Post: Experts: Fed's Push for More Wiretapping a Recipe for Security Disaster

Posted 11 months ago on May 17, 2013, 10:38 p.m. EST by GirlFriday (21785)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Specifically, "The proposal would extend technical design mandates for 'wiretap readiness' to peer-to-peer communications tools," Joseph Lorenzo Hall of the Center for Democracy & Technology (CDT) writes. The reports adds that it "could encompass a wide range of products and services, from instant messaging and chat to Skype to Google Hangouts to Xbox Live. It could include services offered through a variety of means, from stand-alone services to features built into web browser software and social networking sites."

This article is more a compilation of links. http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/05/17

90 Comments

90 Comments


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[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 months ago

I don't think that the FBI needs to be wire tapping

but in a must have a job debt driven economy

everyone needs a job

Pink - Me & bobby McGee

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 months ago

I live in a studio apartment with neighbors and post on the internet

I have never had any kind of "real" privacy

I have no concerns to get privacy

I have very little loss

I think that others may have something to loss that they hide

which constitutes all the concern over privacy

572 51 2618

[-] 1 points by highlander21 (-46) 11 months ago

If a fraction of the talent and treasure were directed to weeding out the Boston bombers and the perpetrators of Benghazi instead ot Tea Party groups, then there could be a whole different dialogue going on.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21785) 11 months ago

If the Tea Party stopped attempting to portray themselves as victims and make up a bunch of crap in an effort to high jack the national conversation then we might get somewhere.

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[-] -1 points by highlander21 (-46) 11 months ago

The Tea Party made have made the biggest contribution to the national discussion in decades. Because tax policy is one of the great dviding issues right now.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26712) 11 months ago

Teabagge(R)s raised my taxes.

Lying assholes.

Never stop investigating this lying, Koch brother's front group.

[-] 0 points by Timex (-3) 11 months ago

Investigate Media Matters too. Why are they tax exempt?

[-] 1 points by shooz (26712) 11 months ago

They tell the truth about FLAKESnews, Limbaugh, etc.

It's a valuable charity.

ALEC?

Not so much.

Of course none of this has anything at all with those liars raising my taxes.

Nothing to do with all their union busting, middle class ruining bullshit and lies

Did I remember to remind you they are based entirely on lies?

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 months ago

in San Diego

they create serves about proposed laws they made up

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 11 months ago

Did you really just back Media Matters?

Another layer of the onion which is shooz falls off in a lumpy mess.

Tea Party stating they are about less taxes is the biggest lie of the century. Dont fall for duopoly nonsense next time.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26712) 11 months ago

Like you have room to talk.

Somebody needs to debunk FLAKESnews and sure isn't you.

http://interoccupy.net/blog/stop-the-sale-of-the-tribune-company-to-the-koch-brothers/

It would seem OWS doesn't share you're love of "fair and balanced" news.

Repeat after me...the Koch brothers are libe(R)tarians.

Repeat this too.

FLAKESnews lies.

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 11 months ago

"Repeat after me"...

Typical of the brainwashed Dems and Reps that have destroyed the planet.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26712) 11 months ago

You couldn't do it could you?

Try again.

The Koch brothers are libe(R)tarians.

You might be surprised at how much easier the truth rolls off the tongue, rather than your lies.

http://vltp.net/aleckoch-cabal-pursuing-privatization-postal-service-ups-fedex/

I like how you sidestepped the comments from Interoccupy.

You just went for the insult.

It's your style.

That and not answering honest questions.

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 11 months ago

(C)orporatists Demo(C)rats Republi(C)ans

Hint: The C stands for Corporatist

Maybe we should all make our own stupid pet names.

No one is sidestepping anything, we can only agree on the obvious so much. Keep voting for ALEC endorsing candidates and claiming others are ignoring them.

You are so far behind you think you are in first.

[-] 2 points by shooz (26712) 11 months ago

The Koch brothers are libe(R)taians.

C'mon.

Stop your insult machine for a second and try a little truth. It's good for the spirit.

Unlike prisonplanet.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/05/19/petkoch-waste-product-creates-black-mountain-on-detroits-riverbank/

Destroying democracy, one state at a time.

Here's some hate in your neck of the woods.

Somewhere else you constantly ignore.

It's amazing how much hate conse(R)vatism and libe(R)tarians can crate isn't it?

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/19/florida-parent-says-religious-zealots-got-teen-daughter-arrested-for-lesbian-relationship/

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 11 months ago

Demo(C)rats and Republi(C)ans have made this e(C)onomy so impossible that we have paid hacks patrolling sites and shifting topics at their beckoning in order to maintain faith in a fu(C)ked system.

Shooz are you a (C)orporatist ?

[-] 2 points by shooz (26712) 11 months ago

Still can't admit the Koch's have anything to do with anything, can you?

C'mon say it!

The Koch brothers are libe(R)tarians

Fucking up the country since the 70s.

Can you say their daddy founded the John Birch Society?

Look who OWS doesn't like!

Koch's AND FLAKESnews.

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 11 months ago

Sooner or later I will eventually convince you that the entire system is much worse than any lone person.

That while the Kochs are scum, they are far from alone.

That the real problem people are the ones that none of us know about.

That attacking Republicans is justified, but it needs to be balanced and include Democrats in order to achieve an all inclusive movement for the type of system that humanity deserves.

That occupy was the most awesome thing in a very long time.

I will not give up on you shooz. You post here way too much to not bring the entire message.

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[-] -1 points by Timex (-3) 11 months ago

A valuable charity? Seriously? Should I take my monthly Operation Smile donation and give it to them instead?

[-] 2 points by shooz (26712) 11 months ago

You say that like FLAKESnews tells the truth.

They don't.

Nor does Limbaugh, Savage and a host of others.

Who else do you know of that reports their lies?

[-] 1 points by shooz (26712) 11 months ago

What's your conclusion?

Or was this meant to be leading?

[-] -1 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 11 months ago

I think anything like this is scary stuff, but didn't you say you wanted the govt to go after Fox News?

[-] 1 points by shooz (26712) 11 months ago

You don't find their excessive, divisive, derisive, and constant lying a problem?

That doesn't scare you at all?

Someone needs to go after them.

At least England had some balls.

Here?

None whatsoever.

[-] -1 points by justiceforzim (-17) 11 months ago

Shoes says You don't find their excessive, divisive, derisive, and constant lying a problem?

That doesn't scare you at all?

I'd say that describes our PeacePrize Prez and his administration. Yes, it DOES scare me

[-] 1 points by shooz (26712) 11 months ago

As usual you didn't answer the question.

For your edification.

http://gawker.com/5797078/fox-news-chief-roger-ailes-cant-stop-calling-the-cops

[-] -2 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 11 months ago

Plenty of people go after them. The Internet is chock full of people going after not just Fox, but MSNBC, CNN, etc... The government going after them is something different. Stalin had balls too. He also had gulags filled to capacity.

I know you are not this dumb, just wrapped up in anger and hatred against Fox, the TP, etc... Remember the whole battle not with monsters thing

[-] 1 points by shooz (26712) 11 months ago

You misunderstand the term effective.

Here's the site.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/

Now show me.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26712) 11 months ago

Name them.

Name those "people that go after them."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzLaYBgC_VQ

Tell about how effective they are.

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with Stalinism.

It has to do with divisive, derisive lies, with a purpose.

To be honest.

First they come for the unions.

Every single time.

Don't you want to be honest about the GOP's attacks on them for many decades?

That would put them firmly in that camp, along with the libe(R)tarians.

[-] 0 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 11 months ago

Michael Moore, Media Matters and you for three. How's that? Though I have to say, based on Michigan you guys kinda suck at your jobs.

Just Google "left wing media bias" or "right wing media bias" and check out all the results. Which is how it should be. Govt crackdowns on the press, never a good thing.

[-] -2 points by Timex (-3) 11 months ago

You and about a million other shut ins around the world. Lots of people do the same for the so called liberal media. Neither nor they are doing wonderful charitable work. Give money and tax exempt status to the ASPCA if you want to make the world a better place. Let Soros handle the talking points over at Media Matters.

[-] 2 points by shooz (26712) 11 months ago

There is NO liberal media at least in the MSM.

So who or what then will expose the the many lies of FLAKESnews/Limbaugh at al?

Oh yes, Soros the great bug a boo of Glenn Beck.

To hell with that lying libe(R)tarian shit sack!

Is there a libe(R)tarian that tells the truth these days?

That just makes me want to post stuff from media matters for you to freakout over.

[-] 0 points by Timex (-3) 11 months ago

Go for it. I could use a good laugh. Here's their talking points webpage for you, although I'm sure you have it bookmarked already.

http://mediamattersaction.org/message/onepagers/

Remember folks, this is a tax exempt organization, just like Crossroads GPS.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26712) 11 months ago
[-] 1 points by shooz (26712) 11 months ago
[-] -1 points by justiceforzim (-17) 11 months ago

Does MM actually write copy? Everytime I see what must be making Obama nervous (either by it's inclusion, or often it's EXclusion) I see a sarcastic headline about some fox story...click on the link and all they have is a link to what fox said. I have never seen them offer a counter fact filled argument.

[-] -1 points by highlander21 (-46) 11 months ago

This is an honest question. In a manner where you feel that you are not disclosing anything personal, how has the Tea Party raised your taxes?

[-] 2 points by shooz (26712) 11 months ago

By using conse(R)vative judges to RAPE the State constitution.

You didn't think they were an honest bunch, did you?

Seems that even some judges in Texas can see through the bullshit.

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Judge-rules-tea-party-group-a-PAC-not-a-nonprofit-3442532.php#src=fb

Pretty good reason to investigate the Koch brothers caucus, don't you think?

[-] -1 points by highlander21 (-46) 11 months ago

But how did they raise your taxes, personally? Did the alleged illegal contributions to a republican candidate in Texas raise your taxes?

[-] 2 points by shooz (26712) 11 months ago

Oh, they raised a whole bunch of peoples taxes when the pissed on the State constitution.

The link shows why these assholes need to be investigated and by more than just the IRS.

[-] 0 points by highlander21 (-46) 11 months ago

According to the Congressional Budget Office, tax revenues this year will be 2.7 trillion dollars. And we are still 1 trillion in the hole every year.
there appears to be a legitimate place for the Tea Party.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26712) 11 months ago

You mean as Koch industries puppets?

The deficit is falling and the debt doesn't matter.

Those who said it did LIED!

The big lies here are the austerity budgets.

In every instance.

[-] 0 points by highlander21 (-46) 11 months ago

So, no budget cuts? No attempts to pay off the debt? How about cutting the entitlement population through work and education?

[-] 1 points by shooz (26712) 11 months ago

Austerity budgets are based on lies perpetuated by Pete Peterson.

Did you miss that?

Why would you want to cut what someone is entitled to anyway?

Are you sick?

[-] 0 points by highlander21 (-46) 11 months ago

Budget cuts across the board would be necessary. And I am not talking about a "raman noodle and tuna" type of budget. A small cut, say 5% across the board, is not austerity. 30% would be austerity.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26712) 11 months ago

What part of "these asinine budgets are based on a lie" are you misunderstanding?

ALL of Ryan's budget is CRAP.

ALL OF IT is based on false information.

Tuna has nothing to do with it, although your proposal is pretty smelly.

For some people minus ANOTHER 5% is a death sentence.

That makes YOU the death panel.

So who gets to die?

[-] 0 points by highlander21 (-46) 11 months ago

Nope. The stakes will just be very high. How can a beaurocracy, with hundreds, if not thousands, of employees, with multibillion dollar budgets annually, handle a 5 percent cut and not let anyone die. I thought America was great and could handle such crises; they handled the Great Depression and WWII

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 11 months ago

Over half of the inbred socially backwards idiots that called themselves the "tea caucus" - no balls to form their own party- voted for the biggest credit card increase the planet has ever seen.

34 outta 66.

Thats how.

Next.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 months ago

yes the numbers are being manipulated with who has control of the money

[-] -1 points by highlander21 (-46) 11 months ago

I am honestly not sure what vote you are talking about; that sounds like a senate vote with a democratic majority where the republicans are more moderate, as a group, than the congressional republicans.

[-] -3 points by eterna (-93) from Montauk, NY 11 months ago

the irs made the tea party people victims.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21785) 11 months ago

Pfffttt...........

you don't have a case.

[+] -4 points by eterna (-93) from Montauk, NY 11 months ago

the irs not only target tea party groupd the were applying for 501c3 and c4's they also went after conservative hispanic groups,churches, and private citizens that criticized the current adminstration.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21785) 11 months ago

Again. You don't have a case.

[-] -3 points by eterna (-93) from Montauk, NY 11 months ago

i do, YOU do not. this govt has an enemies list,............ how long before you might be defined as one.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21785) 11 months ago

No, you don't. In fact, in the past week and a half what has been revealed is that you have nothing but a bunch of spin. Again. You don't have a case.

[-] -3 points by eterna (-93) from Montauk, NY 11 months ago

the irs being used to target conservative groups AND individuals that do not agree with the current adminstraion. there is no spin. they are violations of the 1st amendment of the bill of rights.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21785) 11 months ago

The Tea Party and all of their affiliates should have been investigated earlier and harder and more. And it has nothing to do with the current administration. It has everything to do with getting the money out of politics. Now, we don't have anything else to discuss.

[-] -2 points by eterna (-93) from Montauk, NY 11 months ago

Why should tea party people have be investigated? Hillary said that "dissent is the highest form of patriotism". she said that when bush was president and she was a senator.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26712) 11 months ago

Lies are not dissent.

They're just lies.

[-] 0 points by eterna (-93) from Montauk, NY 11 months ago

What lies? Please be specific.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26712) 11 months ago

Just tune in to FLAKESnews, or any broadcast by Limbaugh, or that wily libe(R)tarian Glenn Beck.

As for the teabagge(R)s?

Taxed

Enough

Already

Is a rather blatant lie.

[-] 0 points by eterna (-93) from Montauk, NY 11 months ago

I asked YOU for specifics. YOU . Maryland is trying to tax rainwater runoff from peoples houses roofs. in nj if you move out of the state there is an exit tax. yes, people are taxed enough already.

[-] 0 points by shooz (26712) 11 months ago

Well gosh, those were specific to your question.

In answer to your new one?

who do you think is after your water?

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/05/19/ceo-nestle-water-privatized-corporate-control/

Liberta(R)ians, of course.

Oh, and then there's all those tax breaks your State has to give to those wonderful, innocent, poor corporations.

Gotta keep up with the State next door you know.

Here's what you should be aware of.

They want this for you too.....!

YAY!!

Death for profit!!!!

It keeps the taxes down.

http://inthesetimes.com/article/15018/texas_blast_exposes_the_new_normal/

[-] -1 points by eterna (-93) from Montauk, NY 11 months ago

you did not answer in your own words,....................why do you think that tea party groups should be investigated? also investigated were hispanic conservative groups ( yes , they exist) and individuals that question the current adminstrations agenda

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (21785) 11 months ago

Hi Linden/eterna. You know why.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20566) from South Burlington, VT 11 months ago

what ever happened to warrants, anywayz . . . .

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (21785) 11 months ago

Warrants-shwarrants.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20566) from South Burlington, VT 11 months ago

o right - I forgot. Silly me.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21785) 11 months ago

Hee-yulk, hee-yulk, hee-yulk............it doesn't say right to privacy in our constitution. That is not even discussed at Beck U. Whatsamattayou?

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (20566) from South Burlington, VT 11 months ago

hmm - I have to leave for an appt in a couple of minutes.

But I have to say the right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure is in the Constitution - and I think one can make the argument that the Constitution applies not only between citizens and the government but BETWEEN citizens as well -

for example - a wire tap of the phone is illegal, without a warrant - and it doesn't matter who taps it.

What ever resides within my braincase is proprietary and belongs to me.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (21785) 11 months ago

Um......that was sarcasm, Zen.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20566) from South Burlington, VT 11 months ago

O I saw that - the problem is that some nimrods take that very seriously and in fact, privacy both as a principle and in practical application, is being eroded all around the country.

I don't like it.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21785) 11 months ago

Oh, I received my pms from the willfully ignorant (and apparently banned) here. I thought that you would understand that it was sarcasm when I used the word constitution.

This is an old argument. For the terminally stoooopid: The association of people is not mentioned in the Constitution nor in the Bill of Rights. The right to educate a child in a school of the parents' choice - whether public or private or parochial - is also not mentioned. Nor is the right to study any particular subject or any foreign language. Yet the First Amendment has been construed to include certain of those rights.

By Pierce v. Society of Sisters, supra, the right to educate one's children as one chooses is made applicable to the States by the force of the First and Fourteenth Amendments. By Meyer v. Nebraska, supra, the same dignity is given the right to study the German language in a private school. In other words, the State may not, consistently with the spirit of the First Amendment, contract the spectrum of available knowledge... And so we reaffirm the principle of the Pierce and the Meyer cases.

In NAACP v. Alabama we protected the "freedom to associate and privacy in one's associations," noting that freedom of association was a peripheral First Amendment right. Disclosure of membership lists of a constitutionally valid association, we held, was invalid "as entailing the likelihood of a substantial restraint upon the exercise by petitioner's members of their right to freedom of association." Ibid. In other words, the First Amendment has a penumbra where privacy is protected from governmental intrusion. The right of "association," like the right of belief (Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624), is more than the right to attend a meeting; it includes the right to express one's attitudes or philosophies by membership in a group or by affiliation with it or by other lawful means. Association in that context is a form of expression of opinion; and while it is not expressly included in the First Amendment its existence is necessary in making the express guarantees fully meaningful.

The foregoing cases suggest that specific guarantees in the Bill of Rights have penumbras, formed by emanations from those guarantees that help give them life and substance. Various guarantees create zones of privacy. The right of association contained in the penumbra of the First Amendment is one, as we have seen. The Third Amendment in its prohibition against the quartering of soldiers "in any house" in time of peace without the consent of the owner is another facet of that privacy. The Fourth Amendment explicitly affirms the "right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures." The Fifth Amendment in its Self-Incrimination Clause enables the citizen to create a zone of privacy which government may not force him to surrender tohis detriment. The Ninth Amendment provides: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

The Fourth and Fifth Amendments were described... as protection against all governmental invasions "of the sanctity of a man's home and the privacies of life."

We have had many controversies over these penumbral rights of "privacy and repose." These cases bear witness that the right of privacy which presses for recognition here is a legitimate one.

GRISWOLD v. CONNECTICUT U.S. Supreme Court 381 U.S. 479 (1965) Decided June 7, 1965.

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (20566) from South Burlington, VT 11 months ago

I did not know you dabbled in legalese . . .

But I think you just made my case - the one where I insist the government cannot prohibit the formation of unions.

Repelicans are such un.Constitutional fuks . . .

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 months ago

afraid the public may not approve of private actions ?

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20566) from South Burlington, VT 11 months ago

I do not understand the question.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 months ago

why is privacy important ?

[-] 4 points by ZenDog (20566) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

I see. I thought it was self evident. It may be true that in much smaller, tribal communities there is or has been much less privacy shared or experienced by its members. In one such as ours, one so large, so diverse, so complex, privacy becomes, I think, much more important.

It is true, given the wide variety of opinion across America - any behavior you or I engage in will not be approved by all. But that is not exactly why privacy is important.

Part of the reason privacy is important is because knowing what you want, what you are interested in, what you might, or will, or are, going after, presents an opportunity to interdict your efforts - be it jealousy over a love interest, or sheer greed in a financial one, it doesn't matter. What you, or I, think, believe, want, and all the rest, are proprietary pieces of information - and no corporation should possess more rights in that regard than any individual. The only time the government has a legitimate interest in these private bits of information is when the rights of others are infringed by your behavior.

But that is not the only reason privacy is important - it is also important in another, very fundamental way. Not everyone is completely comfortable with their own behavior, in a variety of ways and to a wide range of degree, even though some of that behavior remains completely innocent. Some of it comes from what we are taught - perhaps most of it. For example, we are taught that it is not polite to masturbate in public. Some interpret that education to mean that masturbation itself is shameful. While this example may represent a fairly universal example, it is true that many people are or would be embarrassed - or humiliated - by the revelation of the most mundane and innocent of behaviors.

People should not be subject even to the possibility of public humiliation over their humanity - it is wrong and it is cruel. People must be given the opportunity to become accustomed and comfortable with who they are and with their own unique humanity gently, and in their own time.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

I really don't care if a corporation makes plans around me based my actions

that should be to my benefit

thanks

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20566) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

and when that company is corrupt, and one you oppose, and it yet has in its possession, a large data base of your personal data, which it may then use to your harm . . . ?

Or is corporate corruption something unthinkable in your view . . . ?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

then the should publish it so I can see

last I checked they can't steal who I am

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20566) from South Burlington, VT 10 months ago

they can certainly make your life miserable and I can show you how . . .

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

they can already harass me

[-] -1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

if they do I intend on making that public

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[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4024) 11 months ago

We are ruled by thugs.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

Truth - Plain & simple - there may be those who are in office that would protest that judgement - BUT - WTF have they been up to???

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4024) 11 months ago

Good question. Wondering about what all is going on, that we do not know of.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

OH - GOD - it is so fucking much of a nightmare right now - just the things we have partial information on - MY GOD - WHAT A HORRIFIC THING TO CONTEMPLATE.

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