Forum Post: Ever Wonder Why All The Communist Countries Lock Their People In ??
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 11, 2011, 12:47 p.m. EST by aries
(463)
from Nutley, NJ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Ever wonder why people keep coming to America if it's such a horrible place?
Many people are leaving America also, to seek opportunity in other countries like China or Argentina, which are both growing.
I lived in Argentina 3 years, that place is not a communist country.
I've lived there myself also, I know its not communist. I was just saying that it is one place that Americans are now going in search of opportunities.
Then I sure hope they are prepared for some tough times. The Argentine economy has been suffering for quite some time.
It has been suffering, but I think there is growth there, it is supposed to be the second fastest growing country behind China.
Not true. The Dem. Republic of the Congo is fist, then Pakistan, then Brazil, then china, then India, then Mexico....
Really? Do you have a link for reference?
sure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_real_GDP_growth_rate_(latest_year)
I know you aren't going to respond because you are wrong.
If that really was the list you were talking about, then you are mistaken on both counts, the list I see gives this ordering: Qatar, Singapore, Paraguay, Taiwan, India, China...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_real_GDP_growth_rate_%28latest_year%29
I am sorry i was wrong, but i did prove that argentina isn't next to china in rising economies.
No problem, it doesn't really matter to me.
It has a lot of potential. That nation is extremely rich in so many resources. I personally would love to be able to work down there again. One of the areas of growth is in the oil industry. Large oil reserves were recently discovered within the soveriegnty of Argentina. The farm land is so rich you can grow just about anything down there. I would love to see that nation thrive. It's biggest challenge is its level of freedom to conduct business. Chile is much more friendly with respect to trade.
Yes, Argentina has a lot of resources. Are you suggesting more free trade policies though? People seem to be happy there with what Cristina is doing.
Not in the agriculture business. The people are more split ticket over her than you might realize, but they're very used to dissapointing politicians.
Who are you talking about when you say "agriculture business", the soy growers? I've heard that's corporations like Monsanto.
I know there are people who don't like Cristina, I have an English school there and my partner doesn't like her. But she had close to 50% in the last election didn't she? That would be a landslide in the US.
From what I've seen, its mostly the media, owned by international corporations, that turn the people against her.
America has more coming in then leaving.
I imagine so, things are bound to be bad everywhere.
So tell me are more people coming in - or going out?
I'm not sure, do you know?
so if you are not sure - how can you engage in a dialog on the subject? of course I know. that's off topic anyway the question of the post is why do commie countries lock in their people? can you answer that question?
I don't always engage in conversations to prove things, sometimes I do so to learn things. I was merely saying that "many" people now are seeking employment overseas. I did so myself, having taught English in both China and Argentina.
As far as communist countries locking their people in goes, I can certainly say that I encountered quite a number of Chinese people on the airline flying back to America. It was full of them.
yea - those are people with connections. unlike the ones who come over in shipping containers.
Usually the restrictions on the travel of Chinese people into the US comes from the US. Our government wants to make sure that any Chinese people who come here have the means to support themselves.
So its usually the affluent who come over, and yes, it's probably due to their having connections as well. But I don't see the Chinese government playing a particularly great role in restricting the travel of Chinese people.
There are Chinese people all over the world. I saw a lot of them down in Argentina. A lot of the small grocery stores in Buenos Aires are run by Chinese people from China.
Why would our govt. care if they can support themselves? We support millions of illegal mexicans daily and our govt. won't close the border.
of course things have opened up in China. How about North Korea? Cuba?
North-Korea is more about dictatorship than communism. Chinese, Vietnamese, Cubans, etc... can all travel abroad nowadays. I see more and more who come on vacations in Bali. Don't get confused between a dictatorship and communism.
Cubans and vietnamese need government proposal ticket to travel which takes over two years to get.
North Korea seems to be sort of a dynastic monarchy (which apparently will continue when Kim Jong-Il's son takes the throne).
yea the countries you mention are loosening up from communism. how about when they were at their peak of communism?
I don't consider they have ever been really communist; not in the sense of Marx. They were always more about dictatorships. This is where Occupy steps in. It's based on anarcho-communism. The anarchic aspect is meant to eliminate the dictator. There are no leaders.
oh you mean Anarchy hahaha! ok - good luck with that.
Your probably right about North Korea. I think that I met one North Korean in China, and he probably escaped.
I have seen a few Cubans abroad though.
yea - they escaped.
What about all the Cubans in Florida? They let those go.
you again - haven't you said enough stupid shit for one lifetime? your question is from the 50's - we are fighting different battles today - oh, i forgot - you can only imagine two systems - capitalism and communism - of the stalin variety. not really communism anyway but no reason to debate that with an idiot (that would be you in case you didn't know). have you tried to book a flight to cuba from the land of the free and home of the brave. go ahead - i'll wait...........ok - to your question - first is china commie or capitalist? you need to tell me since you are running the debate here. i see lots of those people touring nyc and europe - one married my swedish friend - met him in sweden in 1994. also i see cubans all over the world - whenever there is a disaster they send dos etc so i am guessing the answer to your question is no - what do you think - well thinking is the wrong word for what you do!
I like the your genius method of attacking with vulgarities & insults. very intellectual of you. That only tells me you've lost.
impressive counter argument - declare victory and go home - now please go home
Hard to count when most of them are comming in illegally.
Good.
Oh yeah,lots of opportunity in China. You can't be serious.
I worked in China myself for a year. There must be hundreds if not thousands of jobs for English teachers there.
Many foreigners in China also work at jobs like management, finance, architecture, etc. Many people in the building trades also find work there.
Please UPS, we need you to ship all these OWS scallywags off to North Korea so they can finally live their communist dream.
Did you know that America has more people in prisons than nearly every other country in the world? I have long wondered why we all call this the land of the free while we lock up so many people.
Do you ever wonder if you have been fed a lie all along?
statistics for imprisioned people in other contries the same size as the USA are manipulated. In a police state, forget about prision, you're executed after a kangaroo court trial or no trial at all. saddam hussein used to throw live people into industrial shreders.
You don't need to compare with the same size population. You can compare with the percentage of people in prison. That way you can compare US to Canada or European countries. Your argument only works for some countries, and I have no idea why you bring Saddam Hussein in your argument about countries with similar population size. Iraq doesn't have near 300 million people.
but under hussein, anyone that broke their so called laws was more than likely murdered by the govt.than imprisoned. that made for a low prison population. it's the same in with other dictatorships and totalitarian theocracies.
Yes, but your argument was about countries the size of USA, then you used Hussein as an example. This seems a tad strange and illogical since Iraq is a small country with a small population.
In any case, your argument is not very strong since the world is not only made up of USA and totalitarian regimes. There are many other republic democracies like USA and all of them have fewer people in prison. Look at the percentage of Canadians that are in prison. The percentage of Norwegians, of French, Germans, etc... Compare apples with apples.
maybe the USA has better criminal opportunites.
Nah, it's just because the guests on Jerry Springer represent Americans quite well.
i dont watch springer . you do?
I saw a few episodes back in the day. I haven't owned a television in 15 years. I don't watch it now.
you're not mising anything. i dont watch network t.v. just old ( black and white ) movies.
If these countries are "locking people in" they wouldn't be coming here.
Thanks to laws, they can go to college here for free, or damn near.
They can work here tax free for a decade
Our dollar(some how) is still strong in some areas. They come here and ship our money "back home"
Point #1 & #2 seem contradictory no? I recall makeshift boats occasionally floating off Cuba trying to reach Florida No ?
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Check out my comment about 2 posts down
Point 11 and 12 seem to contradict each other.
How many people are coming here from North Korea? Cuba? China? How many people came here from the Soviet Union? East Germany? The post was about Communist Countries sealing their borders so the citizens cant leave. If communism is so good - why do they need to lock people in? If America is so horrible - why are people coming here?
Many from China. In Canada, 10% of the population is Chinese. It's the number one ethnic group from a foreign country.
Thanks for the question. I found an interesting answer. In 2010:
North Korea: 35
Cuba: 33,573
China: 70,863
Afghanistan: 2,017
Ethiopia: 14,266
FORMER Soviet Union: 4,978
Germany: 6,888
Somalia: 4,558
Russia:6,718
Luxembourg: 22
Ireland: 1,507
Kuwait: 1,037
Looks like nobody's locked in anywhere. Go ahead, name a country
They are coming here for the perks, like education, money, and a chance to make it
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35 are permanent residents. I didn't look at Visa's, blah, blah, blah. But if you read, I said they were interesting results. I'm not saying aries was wrong, I'm also not saying he's right. He said people couldn't leave their countries. I've proven they leave quite often. This also doesn't count people who go to other countries(we're not the center of the world, y'know)
all connected rich people. I am impressed with NK 35 people actually escaped
I love how it always comes down to rich people with you idiots. Believe it or not, only 3 were business related and the rest were for family. I like how you sidestep the other countries you mention. I guess those 33k Cubans all have rich connections,too?? Those numbers don't count those here on visa either
what's your source? Please provide the link
http://www.dhs.gov/files/statistics/publications/LPR10.shtm
All the immigration info you could want.
excellent. how about when communism was at its peak in the cold war? do you have stats on that since that is where you wan to take us?
I never brought up the Cold War. Nobody did, for that matter, that's where you did because you know you're wrong. So since I've defeated your argument, you think you can achieve a win because you know I can't get those numbers (the Cold War was almost 50 years in total, after all. Even if I could, there is no way to prove their accuracy as most records are lumped together. How about you tell me and give me your source. You won't because you know you can't.
just asking. So soviet union & China didnt murder millions who opposed them & then sealed their borders - that is what you are telling me?
Killing millions (of enemies) during 50 years of skirmishes and a few actual events, yes. Sealed borders?? Sure. That's what countries do in a war. People still left the countries though. http://www.jstor.org/pss/27502372. Why are we talking about the Cold War again?? So yes, yet again, you are wrong.
oh - is that what you call millions killed "skirmishes" lol! I bet you dont call the Iraq war a so called "Skirmish".
Yes. The bulk of the Cold War was skirmishes. There were major events(Korea for example) and smaller ones. Millions died from natural causes during the same period of time(50 years is a long time) also.
Iraq was a war. There were skirmishes there to. Just as there were in Afghanistan. It's not like everyone runs head on into each other and the guy at the top of the pile wins.
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So Stalin & Mao didnt starve & shoot millions of people when they confiscated their property farms means of sustinance etc. ?
Give me proof of your claims. I'm tired of educating you. You teach me something. By teach, I also mean give me credible references.
Growing Number of Migrants are Leaving US for Latin America
Getting Out: Your Guide to Leaving America
Wow, when there is a large migration of people leaving this country (which I think we will witness soon)--you know that the you-know-what-hit the fan.
I am not just talking about immigrants from latin american going back to their countries, I speak of all Americans who decide that this country is going in a very bad direction and want out. It is a shame that it is come to that, but that is the signs of the times really.
are you going to be be joining the mass migration soon to leave the U,S, ? Where will you be going? Utopia bound is where? What a genius!
There is no such thing as utopia. Anyone who believes there is a true utopian society here on earth is in la-la land. However, if the country is going in a very bad direction and the rest of the American people will not stand up and fight for the rights--I am not sticking around! A few people protesting isn't going to make a difference--we need a large army of people out there protesting and holding the powers that be in D.C. and on Wall street accountable.
Believe, there is life outside of the U.S.. Have you ever stepped outside of the U.S? Judging by what you wrote, I don't think you have.
new gallup poll - vast majority disagree with OWS pointing at big business as the threat. vast majority blame big government as I've been saying all along. you are all alone. I've been to Europe & Jamaica
I say we protest both, and I think OWS is going to be spending more time in D.C. protesting from what I am gathering.
However, with that said, the Wall Street criminals cannot be ignored, they belong in jail with Bernie Madoff. If they don't go to jail for their crimes against the American people and Global investors, then Bernie Madoff is owed one big apology.
Yes, it's funny how some criminals go to jail and others get off scott free. I guess it pays to buy Congress and have them give you nothing more than a slap on the wrists for your banking crimes. Well, so much for justice.
who's accepting the bribe? look - If I come to you and ask for a favor & offer to pay you - just say no - who took the oath the congressman or the bankers?
Well, our Congressmen and women took the oath, however there are ethic laws that the bankers should be held by, and it is by those laws they condemn themselves for their stupid and greedy criminal acts against the American People.
Also, our Congressmen and women are bought out through the corporate lobbyists in D.C. They are paid to represent big business, and to ignore us (which they are doing a pretty good job of lately.)
who is held accountable at the ballot box? who campaigned and made promises to you? Business is in business for one thing profit. If the govt is corrupt we need to vote them out. your aim is off because you think the government is your savior.
Once again there are laws that the banksters violated and they need to be held accountable. Why should they be above the law? By not holding them accountable it is a form of enabling.
Yes, there needs to be serious change in congress. I say there should be a vote of no confidence. I mean really their approval rating is at 9%. How the heck should they be able to keep there jobs with that low of an approval rating? I also suggest term limit reform.
what laws were violated? can you please be more specific so we can properly debate the issue?
right - migrants are leaving. What about everybody else? What about the other question about locking people in?
"Ever Wonder Why All The Communist Countries Lock Their People In?"
Hmmm... Let's see:
The same reason the US does the exact same thing to about a third of it's population, including me?
To protect them from all of the evil exploitive capitalists roaming around outside their borders?
To protect them from having to listen to this anti-Communist propaganda?
you are locked in? how?
There are about a thousand reasons that the State Department can (and often does) use to arbitrarily deny someone a passport.
so you are an American citizen who has been denied a passport? Gee I wonder what you did to get their attention?
Not sure... Think I scratched my ass in front of a TSA worker or something.
Because they are empoverished...
If only more people knew why the USSR became the way it did. Study your history, open your minds and ears. Rest not on what you already know or believe, education is not only meant for jobs, it is to make you more knowledgable. I can already tell you that one reason the USSR became a police state, was because of the Russian civil war (1919-1921). After the revolution the western capitalist countries invaded Bolshevik Russia to replace the regime. It was an attempt to put tsar Nicholas II back on the throne, which would ultimately fail. The war transformed the party led by Lenin into a military state, which defended socialism and then ended up becoming and remainig a dictatorship.
and so what - it's the western capitalist's fault hahaha ? what have you been smoking ? and where can I get some?
There are many factors, I was only stating one example. In history nothing ever happens on it's own. Ask yourself this question: what would the USSR have been like if the capitalist powers had not attacked it? Certainly in my opinion the leaders would not have been as paranoid as they became. Then their domestic policies would have been different because of the different mind setting. Which would mean less tyranny and less fear of people defecting to the west.
you are brilliant! don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Good luck to you.
not really; communism is so passe.
I don't know of any communist countries. China is as 1% oligarchy capitalist as we are. Besides, the real issue isn't a cliche or label, it's the actual power structure of a country. Is it truly horizontal, democratic and anti-authoritarian, with equal justice and opportunity for all? Or is it just a ruling elite controlling all the wealth, government machinery, and resources (including media), no matter what guise behind which it conceals its true inner workings? Coke or Pepsi?
and you are going to change all this. good luck - new gallup poll - vast majority disagree's with you.
There is no place left in the world that you can still go to that is not horrible - thanks to global predatory capitalism. Coming to the US does not make it not a horrible place - rather possibly a less horrible place. Even the latter is not as true as it used to be.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/far-fewer-enter-u-s--illegally-from-mexico.html
I dont know - everyone I know - if you do the right things in life - you can have a pretty nice middle class life at least. At best - even better. If you do the wrong things - good things dont usually happen.
Sweet Dreams!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q
Are they locking their people in or locking you out? That is key. The question that you need to ask is why do they NOT want you in?
it's both
Why do they NOT want you in?
because they do not want a corrupting influence to the status quot.
Yep. Anyone can travel to any of the alleged communist countries. Except North Korea which does not allow South Koreans or journalists in. We have not seen true communism in action. We never will.
Locking people in? You mean like the huge F@CKING fence we built between the Corporate States and Mexico? So, Canadians and Americans can't leave the Corporate States of America without an ID? You are right it is just communists that do it. Or, maybe, it is oppressive regimes no matter what economic system they claim to be using?
oh - so you think the fence is to keep Americans in & not to keep Mexicans from coming here illegally? interesting take - I've not yet heard that one lol!
Obviously not to keep Mexicans out. Look around at all the Mexicans. Not saying Mexicans are bad. Just that there are lots of them here. I am sure the Soviets had some story they told the public about how the Berlin Wall was protecting them from something. You know our corporate government loves cheap labor and so, probably does not care if illegal immigration drives down wages for Americans.
Why do you think America is a horrible place? America is a great country with so much potential.
We don't have to we just make them so poor they can't go anywhere.
cause they ain't got no property
I wish more people would get informed. I don't think Homeland Security is made to protect us, but rather imprison us. "If tyranny and oppression come to this land it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.” ― James Madison
Communism is when the government and labor (Communist Party) combine to control companies (join Communist Party and give up profits) and also controls all labor - personal wealth (police state is a must). Communism owns and controls everything. Corporate fascism is when the government combines with corporations and controls everything but doesn't own everything. Both pick and chose the winners and believe in giving up the people's rights for the good of the collective (for communists it's society, and for fascists it's national); they both end with two classes of people, the rich and the poor. Communism and fascism talk a good game about the building the middle class (while not in power), but there is no middle class in both. In communism the Communist Party is the rich, the people are equally poor (but at least their equal), and in fascism the rich are the government and the corporations that the government picks by destroying their competition, thus leaving them with a monopoly. So communism is not a good alternative for fascism.
Well, this is a valid point. There is still more opportunity here than third world countries. It's all relative.
Ever try to exit and re-enter the US of A in the past few years?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-3hZsXrxaI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mkRFCtl2MI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SQqjTxI3vc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EewGMBOB4Gg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/
http://blog.thezeitgeistmovement.com/
http://www.thevenusproject.com/