Forum Post: End the Federal Reserve and the Fractional Reserve Banking System
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 21, 2011, 6:01 p.m. EST by ScrewyL
(809)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
They have devalued our currency and widened the gap between the 1% and the 99%.
They are the cause of problems Occupy Wall Street is in protest of.
They have empowered the political system which conspires with Wall Street to commit banking fraud.
Socialism is not neccessary, nor even preferred. Simply return to sound money, and prosecute fraud.
The existing American system, if enforced by its people, is capable of that, without "Stomping out capitalism" -- which is impossible.
By "impossible", I mean literally, scientifically, impossible. The human body requires resources to sruvive. Processing of resources requires labor.
Wether an individual capitalizes upon his own labor, the state capitalizes upon it, or a wealthy entrepreneur does, they are all forms of capitalism -- and have quite blurred lines.
Consider this:
Someone comes to me and employs my expertise in working on cars. I charge them two ears of corn for my labour.
They then turn around, and trade the car I fixed -- for two fat pigs.
They have capitalized off my labor by their possession of the means; the car.
How could you, OWS, or ANYone, ever successfully prohibit this transaction, or anything like it?
Do not seek to bring down capitalism. That is futile. Bring down corruption, conspiracy and political deception -- and your goals will have been met.
Oh yeah and good job OWS for not letting us type Ron Lawl u commies. all for free speech huh? only when it furthers your agenda ass'
Not just Ron Lawl, but also Obama, Romney, Alex Jones and all political figures that can cause splintering and divisiveness. See that's why OWS can create solidarity and focus on a common adversary. I think it's smart. No one is stopping you from developing your own movement where you can go at it...Oh yes you tried that already..the Tea Party right ?
and we will see how long u commies last. you van jones goerge soros and moveon.org can go jump off a cliff
Well it's been established how long all of you will last lol...what was it maybe five End The Fed actions, before you all went home to mommy lol At this critical moment what are YOU doing to restore our republic, and OWS is inclusive meaning there are capitalists, socialists, commies and anarchists in OWS while you're thumb sucking at home.
lol im in a doorm room discussing and teching people about the history of america and how we have lost our way. look there is more good than bad in ows but even a little bad can ruin the whole movement. my prays and thoughts are with everyone out there. but i will not stand for communism. you guys take money from george s and have radicals like van jones. im not with that man. we need a revolution but throwing gas coktails at macys or even threating to is not the way
Ows has been overwhelmingly peaceful; but you refuse to acknowledge that, from your dorm, safe and secure. Should we evaluate the tea party by the Koch brothers ? Quite frankly, it's a hellova lot easier to get on OWS than confront the tyrants and 1% who you do tolerate every waking minute, of every day. So spare me from what you won't stand for.
You all fight and bicker and bash eachothers heads in... quit focusing on ripping the other half apart and actually supporting one another.
Ows is sitting out their fighting the 1% and the ones who have the audacity to login here are fighting and bickering amongst themselves.
Not bashing either of you, im just saying with all of us comes diversity
I've been out there, on the streets; also providing material support. I do more than just login lol.....but yes you're right...thanks.
Wow very awesome you guys are my heroes! I wish I could be out there, but I have a wife and a daughter unfortunately my fight has to be here at home while making sure theyre both okay!
I've traveled; and in Mexico I asked a mother with her three kids in tow why she was attending this organizing action; with three small children. I told her in America people tell you they can't come to meetings and actions BECAUSE of kids and family. Why is she here with her children ? She told me with quiet sincereity, and sadness...if I'm not here, they, meaning her children; will have no future. The Mexican mother wasn't in a situation that permitted her to bs to herself; the way we do here.
Many people won't be on the front lines; but that doesn't mean you couldn't contribute from home. On another post people who were at home were making plans to spread the news about the Oakland port closing; making signs; networking, donations; phone support during actions calling politicians etc.
you really dont know me and what i tolerate bud, but go ahead and sit on your high horse and cut down anyone who has the dare to disagree. now if u wanted to have a healthy debate i would have been down. but then again ur a commie and its ur way or the well u know the rest
Well you don't know me either; I know that because you've labelled me a commie. As I said the reason why right wingers couldn't develope a movement is because of all the labeling, name calling, intolerance as you have so generously demonstrated. Now..you're here on an OWS site talking about what you want stand for in OWS; instead of getting the guts to do what OWS did; and create a movement and website for EndTheFed, and the right wingers...nope instead here you are...here..not standing for communism and whatever. Then go develope a movement that reflects your values. Why are you here since you disapprove ? Oh because you're not going to get your heads bashed in by the police; you'll just piggyback on the coat tails of a movement you dislike and are contemptuous of. Yes, that's brave and honorable ...not : (
also you know that there isnt a ows protest everywhere im in lubbock tx the closet one is in dallas and i plan on going there when i go home for break. and talk to people about the fed
and did you not read my last post when i said my thoughts and prayers are with ows and there is alot of good stuff going on there ? i swear your acting like a person who will only here what he wants to hear
okay okay...peace lol
again ur not talking to a republican or right winger here bud
well you're not talkin to a communist , so there lol
peace alright were good i came off a little strong but i feel strong about this stuff and i know yall do to. and i know everyone thinks diffrent. ive beed talking to sheep all day just a little pissed off
Yep, sheep can do that to you hahaha peace...really. We're on the same team.
No, the EtF people are at the OWS rallys...
Yes they are because they didn't have the capacity to launch their own EndTheFed movement; which was their initial intention. They didn't have what it takes for direct sustained action; so then they came over to OWS.
I find it highly more likely that both groups agree on numerous issues, and synergistically formed simultaneously, one gathering strength and numbers from the other.
That may happen; but that was not the initial intention. The people focused on EndTheFed didn't have the capacities to do what OWS has done; so instead they've come to OWS. It would have been far far better to have two movements going on at the same time; which would have permitted the more rigid and conformist right wingers to partipate in direct action; as OWS did it's thing. Two movements would have kept the minions doubly busy.
It has more to do with relevancy than it does with splintering and devisiveness. Here is the reason given by OWS for the "censorship", one that I agree with.
•We do not support an election campaign for 2012. At all. We have removed election material for Obama, Paul, Warren, Paul, Cain, Paul, Perry, Paul, the green party, Paul, Nader, Paul, and did I mention Paul? The spamming by the Ron Lawl 2012 fan club was getting out of hand. We will continue to remove such material and any call for the Paul 2012 campaign will, at this point, be considered spamming. End of. We're tired of hearing about it. Main street debates are also largely off topic.
OWS isn't about main street politics. As far as I am concerned Republican = Democrat and the 1% wins in any case. They own both parties.
Now some may disagree and want to push one or another candidate. There are forums for that just as there are forums to save dogs that are abandoned in shelters (an issue near and dear to my heart). This simply is not that forum either even though the cause may be an excellent one.
Could I have that link on OWS censorship please.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/moderating-policies-will-be-reposted-somewhere-pro/
This is the link that says "Read the Rules Before Posting"
[Removed]
It to do with relevancy. This is not a forum to discuss Ron Lawl any more than it is a forum to discuss saving dogs that are abandoned in shelters (an issue near and dear to my heart). This simply is not that forum either even though the Ron Lawl cause like the shelter animal cause may be an excellent one.
Here is the reason given by OWS for the "censorship", one that I agree with.
•We do not support an election campaign for 2012. At all. We have removed election material for Obama, Paul, Warren, Paul, Cain, Paul, Perry, Paul, the green party, Paul, Nader, Paul, and did I mention Paul? The spamming by the Ron Lawl 2012 fan club was getting out of hand. We will continue to remove such material and any call for the Paul 2012 campaign will, at this point, be considered spamming. End of. We're tired of hearing about it. Main street debates are also largely off topic.
My (monjon22) personal opinion is that OWS isn't about main street politics. As far as I am concerned Republican = Democrat and the 1% wins in any case. They own both parties.
YES ! Let's go back to hard currency !
Wait. The 1% have it all, and we're in record debt at the personal, local, State, Federal, and International level.
Crap ! How can be get out of debt when the 1% have all the money?
I have an idea ! Let's print a bunch of money so we can take dilute the holdings of the 1% then use the money we took from them to pay our debts ! Genius !
Seriously, this has to be the only populist movement in the history of the world with so many arguing for a tight money policy !
Money is just a token we use to facilitate commerce. It has no intrinsic value in and of itself. What matters is the value being created in the economy and traded in commerce, not how many tokens we have. People who vest these tokens with extreme power suffer from the same delusion as those who seek to hoard them.
See http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-is-money/ for detail, and study up on Bretton Woods, the Triffin Dilemma, etc.
The 1% have it all, and horde it at 1700 an ounce. why. Because they know it is undervalued at that price. Gold will change hands much more freely when the price reflects its actual value in dollar terms.
So, what about 2,000 or 5,000 an ounce. Or even 10,000 an ounce. At 10,000 an ounce i believe gold will be plentiful and enough around for everyone. But we need a market that is free from monopolies, manipulations & distortions to get there. The market must be allowed to find its own True Price Discovery without interventions.
Max Keiser - Chinese Banks Using Gold as Legal Currency Exchange
[OTE132] :::::On the Edge with Dan Collins of The China Money Report:::::
http://maxkeiser.com/2011/11/20/ote132-on-the-edge-with-dan-collins-of-the-china-money-report/
Actually, to be clear, I'm arguing for crminal prosecution, and the awarding of damages to the victims of the fraud. -- Which is a slightly less futile solution that what you imply.
Pretty radical ! Do you think you will get a large enough portion of the voting public to agree to pursue that ? I don't, but I wish you luck!
No I don't,but I can only in good conscience hope for and support what is right.
To compromise would be to negotiate with terrorists.
Fair enough. I don't agree with you, but I like your attitude ;o)
Adopt Bitcoin! It can't be centrally manipulated and it can't be taxed!
If by "bitcoin" you mean "digital money," we already HAVE adopted it for most of our money supply. I often tell folks that the story is even simpler than "tokens," it's now just bits in a computer memory ! I'm a 5%'er and I have about 26 bits of "wealth" occupying a few nanometers of silicon sustained by a few nano-watts of power. I sure hope they back-up regularly ! ;o)
http://bitcoin.org
LOL ! Someone is trying to print their own money !
I fail to see how this helps, but it's interesting !
These articles should get you up to speed:
http://falkvinge.net/2011/06/04/bitcoins-four-hurdles-part-one-usability/
http://falkvinge.net/2011/06/06/bitcoins-four-hurdles-part-two-transactions/
http://falkvinge.net/2011/06/08/bitcoins-four-hurdles-part-three-escrow/
http://falkvinge.net/2011/06/10/bitcoins-four-hurdles-part-four-exchanges/
Here the author interviews with Max Keiser (On- the Edge):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBN9p1qemMA
Take away the unbelievable advantage of the top one thousandth of one percent: take away the privilege of creating money out of thin air and receiving interest on the newly created money. Take away fractional reserve lending from privately owned institutions,
OWS is not anti-corporation and anti-banks. It is against corporations that abuse their power and are infiltrating our government. It is against the abuse of the monetary system that the federal reserve is responsible for. We have a debt based privatized monetary system that is not in the constitution. The abuse of Wall Street, the federal reserve, and the government has caused our US dollar to decrease in value drastically over the past 14 years.
Propose a bill to end the patriot act.
Propose a bill to end massive contributions from lobbyists, unions, and corporate influences. The "supreme" court ruled McCain-Feingold unconstitutional. Obviously the supreme court is corrupt. They claimed that "McCain-Feingold" denied "free speech" even though 1: Money isn't free and 2: 100% of US citizens still would have had freedom of speech and the ability to contribute to campaigns. So how was the supreme court able to say it suppresses free speech? Another fact, a lot of corporations are owned through many investors. Sometimes these investors are foreigners. I didn't know foreigners in other countries were allowed to participate in our government. The government is supposed to be governed by it's people. I feel like most members of the government have never read the constitution.
I'd say propose a bill to nationalize the federal reserve but that bill has already been created and is being reviewed by the Financial Institutions and Credit Committee. Look up The National Emergency Employment Defense Act of 2011.
All these rich people keep telling us that our country is in massive debt... all the while they keep making more money. These rich people are members of congress and the president.
"Both parties are rotten - how could they not be, given the complete infestation of the political system by corporate money on a scale that now requires a presidential candidate to raise upwards of a billion dollars to be competitive in the general election?"
OWS is not anit-capitalism. It is anti corruption.
Monjon, scroll down to the bottom of this page.
On the right-hand-side, you will see a link which says 'github'
That link will take you to this page: github.com/jart/occupywallst
On that page, the author of this website, Justine Alexandra Roberts Tunney, has given the project which contains the sourcecode for this website (occupywallst.org) a headline.
That headline reads:
Stomping out capitalism, one line of code at a time.
So, while you might be right that OWS is not anti-capitalism, it is evident that the author of this websit, IS.
I am having trouble finding the headline "Stomping out capitalism", but just for argument lets suppose that that the person who started this web site (JART) is anti-capitalist. That does not mean that the OWS movement is anti-capitalist unless JART is the leader of the OWS movement. It does not mean that all OWS supporters are anti-captialism.
There are some anit-capitalist supporters of OWS -- these folks are in the 99%; but these few do not define the movement.
On the github page, at the very top, underneath the smiley face and the blue link text "jart / occupywallst", there is a table column who's header reads "Code" and has an orange underline, and you will find under that, the phrase:
Stomping out capitalism, one line of code at a time
And if you click on the blue link text which reads "jart", you will be taken to Justine Alexandra Robert Tunney's github profile page. On that page, you will clearly see the same headline text under the project titled 'occupywallst'.
That project contains the software -- the source code -- for this very website you and I are communicating across.
I agree with you, that the owner of this website does not represent the Occupy Wall Street movement at large. To a great degree, I am drawing attention to that fact while also cautioning against futile attempts to "stomp out capitalism"
We seem to be on the same page. That said, your ending remarks on the topic post really do not qualify this. It sounds as though you believe the entire OWS movement to be anti-capitalist.
Wow. I really learned a lot here chatting with you. I actually had been under the impression that this site was the official OWS site and not simply one among many. Good to know.
Okay, I found the "Stomping Out Capitalism" reference, and I also did a bit of research on Justine Tunney, who is anti-capitalist; however this occupywallstr.org website does not represent her views. She along with others provides technical support for resistance movements (see very good description below).
From the OccupyWallSt.org "About" section:
OccupyWallSt.org is the unofficial de facto online resource for the growing occupation movement happening on Wall Street and around the world. We're an affinity group committed to doing technical support work for resistance movements. We're not a subcommittee of the NYCGA nor affiliated with Adbusters, anonymous or any other organization.
Occupy Wall Street is a people-powered movement that began on September 17, 2011 in Liberty Square in Manhattan’s Financial District, and has spread to over 100 cities in the United States and actions in over 1,500 cities globally. #ows is fighting back against the corrosive power of major banks and multinational corporations over the democratic process, and the role of Wall Street in creating an economic collapse that has caused the greatest recession in generations. The movement is inspired by popular uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia, and aims to expose how the richest 1% of people are writing the rules of an unfair global economy that is foreclosing on our future.
Mon Jon, please, don't be niave.
When someone provides you "support", they will only do so in the ways and means that support their own agenda.
That is why you must be very careful who you get your support from -- which is the essence of why the U.S. was traditionally non-interventionist.
It certainly is interesting, worthwhile and educational to look into the history of the web site and the movement. That said, I am 100% in support of OWS. And I enjoy discussions on this website, but look forward to reading and posting on other sites as well.
The heart of the Redemption scheme is one of the oldest and most dearly held of all patriot myths: the Federal Reserve conspiracy. In 1909, according to this myth, the United States could no longer pay its debts and entered into negotiations with international bankers, who gave the U.S. a 20-year moratorium on paying its debt in return for the establishment of a Federal Reserve Bank to be owned by international bankers. Two decades later, suggests the myth, the United States defaulted on this debt and went into bankruptcy, which is what really started the Depression. Four years later, in 1933, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, by creating a “national emergency” and taking the country off the gold standard, ended legitimate constitutional rule. From that point on, the government operated largely through deception (as to its unconstitutionality), deliberately mixing public, private, and martial laws, rules and practices. Redemption theories in particular reference House Joint Resolution 192 (HJR 192), passed in 1933, which they interpret as a declaration of bankruptcy.
why are my comments censored?
Ron Lawl! Ron Lawl!
I have a petitition started at The White House petition site. The assigned link is wh.gov/bJR for the first 150 out of 25000 signatures, then it goes public. My petition is essentially to nationalize the Federal Reserve which is privately owned and operated in a highly secretive and costly way to those who need to borrow.
It will end for certain when the $600 trillion derivatives time bomb explodes, and that may not be far off.
Then we will nationalize the banks and eliminate the federal reserve. It would also be a grand time to put an end to the so-called global free market and start building a social market economy.
Cheers! Ditto!
Adopt Bitcoin! It can't be centrally manipulated and it can't be taxed! And it's currently worth more than 2 times the USD.
http://bitcoin.org/
[Removed]
The only candidate want get rid of Federal reserve is Ron P-a-u-l
I tried to engage the Ron P faction at Occupy DC, and they were so jaded from all the hostility they didn't even want to talk to me. I happen to view RP somewhat favorably. He is certainly the best candidate in the Republican race. It's funny how the MSM try to completely ignore him. Apparently he is an unnameable specter on this forum, as well.
yeah but he also wants to pollute your childrens drinking water by making no regulations on water quality by epa. completely eliminating any government oversight on food quality, so he wants to give your children ecoli , poison air and water and lead in their toys and mercury and doesn't want your medication regulated by the fda so you better start picking herbs and digging a well and growing your own food if you want your children safe in a Ron P. world, too bad because I do want to end the fed, but he is an extremist in wanting to remove all regulations. that is kind of the definition of an anarchist.
those departments dont handle that morn on good suck federal government cock those departments are not productive. Water quality is done at the local level moron
Oh yeah so lead testing on toys from china is done on a local level, do you have any clue why we live into our 90s in the modern world when people would die in their 40s before food and water and sanitation and air quality and child labor and expiratiojn dates on food and medicine being tested to not have mercury and on and on and on and on. Yeah lets just deregulate the whole world and each little town can regulate everything coming into their town we can have thousands of local regulatory committes rather than 5 federal ones, yeah thats brillian and will save so much money. Okay I will concede the department of homeland security we can do away with that one.
have you read the book The Jungle by Upton Sinclair, it is a real account of why we need at least a minimum amount of regulation when it comes to food safety and child labor regulations. Do you have any idea what labor conditions were like before we had labor regulations. yeah lets go back to early industrial factory conditions. You are a sadistic person.
What about a resource based economy?
You mean Communism or Socialism?
fractional banking a great evil to make rich richer and poor poorer
|> Terrorism by Economic Collapse, debt bondage, money as debt on interest, etc > http://terrorismbreedsterrorism.wordpress.com/terrorism-topics/terrorism-by-economic-collapse/
|>Derivatives ‘Mother of All Bubbles’ exploding >
http://inlightofrecentevents.wordpress.com/2011/10/14/derivatives-%E2%80%98mother-of-all-bubbles%E2%80%99-exploding/
|> Super rich 1% vs 99 %; Terrorism Cycle: Guillotines: Occupy “ALL” streets > http://terrorismbreedsterrorism.wordpress.com/super-rich-1-vs-99-terrorism-cycle-guillotines-occupy-all-streets/
and See SUPER COMMITTEE BIG BANK ROBBERY and “this sucker” going down
http://abusalmandeyauddeeneberle.wordpress.com/super-committee-big-bank-robbery-and-this-sucker-going-down/ Terrorism by Economic Collapse, debt bondage, money as debt on interest, etc http://terrorismbreedsterrorism.wordpress.com/terr...
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ron-pauls-connections-to-gary-north-christian-reco/
http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=1996_1343749
We all know they are not federal
PaulRon 12
Agreed! Understand that corporatism and evil corporations are related but not equal. Here is the source of all the problems-we aren't taught that The Federal Reserve and The District of Columbia are corporations established and owned by The Bank of England. Sorry to break it to Ya'll but the South lost the Civil War and so did the North! England won IN SPADES. http://www.gemworld.com/USAVSUS.HTM. We can beat this thing if we learn it's nature. We are still a REPUBLIC and even the beast has to operate under certain laws.
fuck obama
No, don't.
[Removed]
Why didn't End The Fed supporters develope their movement, as did OWS ? Furthers it is the 1% who brought down capitalism; seems some haven't noticed.
[Removed]
Listen ron lovers-he is simply controlled opposition. Need to look closer at the history of this man and understand that he is merely their candidate -selected to pull punches and take them down a notch at a time (if he is "elected") so international banks can maintain hold on the system. He says things that are true, but he IS a gate-keeper. Just like G. Edward Griffin (birch society Rokefeller shill) he takes you right to the gate, then down the sidewalk to the neighboring mansion. Eustace Mullins is the authority Griffin plaigerized-patriot(RIP)-and you get the WHOLE scoop from him. YouTube Eustace Mullins for the real deal.
You don't know what you are talking about. The power elite have fought Ron Lawl every single step of every election. They put candidates up against his congressional campaigns and they have done everything to ignore and try to discredit RP's presidential run. Maybe you should read his book or look at his voting record. He doesn't lie to the public which is maybe why you are so scared of him.
Not at all. This is political theater for public consumption. There IS no choice that threatens their interest or you wouldn't have it to choose. Take a long view of history and start over. http://www.gemworld.com/USAVSUS.HTM. That's a good place to start. Then study Hegel (thesis+antithesis=synthesis. Order from chaos) and for fun move over to Hertzl and find out what's really going on.
BofL, look at this statement: "There is no choice that threatens their interest or you wouldn't have it to choose"
-- Don't you think that what we've seen happen to R.P. represents every attempt to /eliminate/ him as a choice?
Before you assume that I am unaware of your 'dialectic', let me assure you I am well aware; however:
Your theory is flawed in that, were it true to the absoltue in all cases, there would literally be NO solution. As you said: "There IS no choice" -- while that can actually be true, it is not a practical presupposition for one to make for that leaves, well, "no choice" by which a solution can be achieved.
In other words, I think you are well informed, and intelligent, but overly paranoid. Your theory would erroneously flter ANY real, genuine solution out because "otherwise the choice wouldn't exist".
All that said, nothing can be known about R.P's deed IF, and until, he commits them. For that to occur, he would have to be elected.
So we all have a three-way choice before us; the lesser of two evils, or a wild long-shot at something good?
You are apparently unaware of the situation. And I am saying that WITHIN the corporate USA (yes District of Columbia is a corporation formed and wholly owned by The Bank of England) there arises no solution to help us, the 99, escape the bankruptcy proceeding that has been in progress since 1933. Go check this out-friendly and well outlined information everyone should know .http://www.gemworld.com/USAVSUS.HTM
As I said, I am well aware. I have read the documents you reference.
Do not forget that the President is capable of; (indeed, obligated to) prosecuting the conspirators responsible for perpetrating that fraud, in contravention of the U.S. Constitution.
I do not know of any candidate more likely to wield that power properly, than R.P., who explicitly says that he will end the Fed. -- Granted, it's only a start, but would go a long way toward fixing what messed up in the first place.
Yes, capable like Obama. Nothing promised was done, and it won't be different with RP. It's not even in the realm of possibility. Presidents loyalty as C.E.O. Of D.C. Is to the trustees of the bankruptcy-Congress... And they are owned by the corporations that are owned by the banks-so no-forget it.
Dr. Paul wants to end the FED which is the most corrupt institution in history. Taking from the poor and giving to the rich. He wants to end all the wars we are in. He wants to end the drug war. Those are all interests of the corrupt elite and he has been taking them on for 40 years almost always all alone. The elite have been attacking him at all angles for years and now we have OWS attacking him?
You take his rhetoric at face value. Most people think green money is worth something too. Read the links I shared before firing at me and going all Doctor Paul on me. Seriously-I didn't spam you
Do you realize The Fed is but one central bank owned by a cartel that controlls EVERY central bank on earth except for 3 countries? Get that-every currency on earth but 3. And here comes Dr. Paul to change up the game. Seriously? You don't see how big this is yet. Read or watch Eustace Mullins and check the history.http://www.gemworld.com/USAVSUS.HTM
Yes I realize that. And that would result in two things:
Make the U.S. an enemy of Columbia, and
R.P's probable death.
-- I can only assume this is a possibility RP has considered and accepted.
Not even close. Read through the link. DISTRICT of Columbia is D.C. History you and I learnt is fraud. Start over.
/District of/ would be the subject of the object, m'friend. Preaching to the choir here!
Ten 4