Forum Post: Do you have any right to protest? You are a bunch of spoiled kids!
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 19, 2011, 5:12 p.m. EST by hotrod02
(21)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I am a world traveler with a passport filled with destination stamps. I have been traveling now for many years. Sadly, in almost every destination I have visited there has been obnoxious levels of poverty...even in places like Europe. Poverty in the world is one of those things you have to get used to if you want to travel abroad. In comparison, there really isnt that much poverty in the United States. Everyone here lives fairly well. Its funny to me to see people protesting. What are they protesting exactly? Student loan debt? Corporate greed? None of these are really good excuses when compared to how others live throughout the world.
There are families who right now live in the streets of the Philippines, there are people getting killed everyday in Colombia over an ongoing drug war, people are actually getting shot&killed (not just receiving a bad dose of pepper spray) in Syria and Mexico is one ongoing story of poverty. Seeing the protesters armed with thousands of dollars in video equipment, laptops, ipods, iphones and having the latest clothes...who are they to compare themselves to these other people in the world who actually have something to complain about.
My perception is this is a bunch of spoiled brats who are complaining because things are a little bit tough right now. They are finding they can no longer afford the Iphone or the latest in Canon cameras. The student loans and house loans, which they volunteered to sign up for and were way beyond their means to repay, are now going bad. They are finding they actually have to take real jobs which involve some creativity and work then the old days where they took a job involving sitting in an office doing nothing.
Folks, lets get real. What are you protesting exactly? While we can do little to solve world's obnoxious level of poverty levels, we can celebrate what we do have. We can also adapt and overcome. For example, there are plenty of jobs out in North Dakota which are paying double the rate because of the oil boom. Why not take a chance and go there? I can tell you what will not improve your situation and thats to sit around with a sign causing trouble and antagonizing the local police force. Face it, you live a luxury existence. Do you live in the streets? Do you live in a boxcar? If you are reading this then you probably dont. So go out tonight and celebrate what you do have...dont sit there like a brat and complain about what you dont have...
Seriously, if you had the slightest clue about what you were talking about. Between the article and comment by Gileos...YOU DON'T KNOW THESE PEOPLE! instead of being critical of what they're doing and just wanting to achieve, why not take the time to go ask them, and really talk to them. Be a human being! the point of this isn't just for our country either, it's for every fucking country and all of us sympathizers can see that. It's not just about corporate greed and governmental flaws, it's about the fact that this world has the option to be sooo much better, but there's this entity of men at the highest levels who want nothing more than their own profit, whether that destroys thousands of families or not. Stop being arrogant, in this generation you're view will get you nothing. The sooner you realize we as people have every duty to ensure we are all givin equal say and rights, the sooner you can take your heads out of your asses and stop being fucking prudes
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Looks to me like they are getting their say. Which is more then they would get anywhere else. Quit cursing and getting angry and tossing insults. Your embarrasing to the real people with real issues in this movement. They should denounce you along with all the other groups i cited, but they dont.
incredibly sorry to offend your sensible ears. and how is getting they're say here more than they would get anywhere else? i turn on fox news or cnn and they say the exact things coming out of this guys mouth. For all I know i could have been arguing with Bill O'Reilly himself. It's crazy for you to even say things like "they should denounce you"....the fact is, I'm a poor to middle class person. I've never been handed anything in my life, and the general populace that occupies, know exactly where I'm coming from and would never denounce anyone for speaking up for their fellow man. Now, there should be an honest way to filter through these forums to make sure that only constructive and relevant posts are coming through, but instead there's complete naysayers, who as I said to hotrod, should take a minute out of their day, and go talk to the people, like really talk to the people protesting. Rather than sitting yourself, comfortably, in front of your fox news propaganda round up. There's nothing positive to come out of people like you or particular others on these forums, so you're really better off joining the tea party and their fight for dominance over your life
You seem adept at missing the point. Its gonna take alot more then that to offend me. Yes send them to england or greece and they can do whatever they want. Send em to a sharia country and they would be killed. Case in point.
Well, the way you post should be and apparently is being denounced, so deal with it. I dont know or care what you have against fox or o reilly. You should hate all mainstream media and not leave them out of your hate rants imo.
Yes, censor the people that disagree with you. Way to go kiddo. Your very mistaken about alot of things especially your judgement of the people that disagree with you, imo you fit right in.
Hmmm whats wrong with the tea party? Talk about propaganda lol. Your very angry and need to calm down before trying to have an intelligent conversation.
Let me put it this way my friend, every person who is a citizen of the United States is the "1%". Now go out to Africa or lets say to anywhere in Southeast Asia or Central/South America for that matter. Take a good look around you...that is the "99%".
You type in this aggressive profane language as if you are angry. Hey, no need to be angry, if you are an American citizen then you have absolutely nothing to get angry about. Just get yourself a job and all will be well.
"Now go out to Africa or lets say to anywhere in Southeast Asia or Central/South America for that matter. Take a good look around you...that is the "99%"."
I think you just named, in order I believe, the regions of the world with the worst domestic income inequality.
Not so surprisingly, that is the main issue the 99% intends to address.
Would you rather live in one of the regions you mentioned??
No!
Why?? Because living in a country with vast inequality sucks. Even for those at the top.
I have a job...i've had multiple jobs. I've been a hard working american since the day I could get my license. I'm not complaining about work personally, and if i had the income that some of these people have, I would be donating it and working towards making sure other people don't have to suffer. Not everyone's the same and that's obvious, but there's such a thing as decency, and in the United States it's lacking. Clearly not as much as in Africa, since you use that as an example. But I've been to college, I know what loan debt looks like, it takes away from a persons liveliness because it's such an overwhelmingly heavy burden. Once again though, I'm different than others. But what I imply is that I greatly sympathize with these people because there are huge wrongs being done. And yes, I as an American have the right to be angry. I'm not living in the society I was educationally brainwashed into believing I was part of. It's a giant mess, and people need to be held accountable for their actions on every level. Start really talking to different people and find out their grievances before trying to call them lazy, or telling them they need to go get a job.
What we're seeing is children who took the easy way out - college instead of manual labor, who have fomented the anxiety of their educational cost over a period of years, only to attempt to now pass it along to others.
it's not worth talking to your type anymore...quite frankly it gets exhausting trying to sustain your ego. Keep saying whatever you want about these people, because they aren't just kids. But until you really do your homework and learn who they are, you're completely not credible as a person worth talking to.
Good! I am happy you have work, a roof over your head, an Iphone, Ipad, a college degree... Can I ask why are you complaining? Why are you here? Your situation is good. Are you complaining because you are not driving around a Ferrari around Hawaii like that guy on Magnum PI? You have no right to be angry my friend. If you wanted to make me laugh, then you succeeded!
I have a roof that I'm paying for over my head...no iPod, Pads, whatever the fuck you think. I don't have a college degree, because I couldn't afford the cost to keep going to college. I could give two shits about what kind of car I drive or where the hell I live. What I DO care about, is knowing that myself along with a great deal of other American's get the rights as not just citizens but HUMAN BEINGS that we deserve. That EVERYONE on this fucked planet deserves. But there are these people ( you being one I presume) who literally care only for yourself. I'm sorry, I want to ensure that when I'm ready to have children, they'll be born into a society that doesn't try and rape you of your free will with new laws and bills not even agreed on by the people. I want a place where I could send my children to school and feel like they're being taught something, and not just regurgitated bullshit. Hell, maybe even the idea of a healthcare system that wasn't incredibly flawed and myself (someone who cannot, even with multiple jobs, afford insurance) can live happy and healthy without the fear of another lingering debt. I want to live in an American society run by WE THE PEOPLE, not by big business and the financial department. So yes, I'm mad, but clearly someone as intellectual as yourself will never get the picture because you've never been in someone like myself, or any other activists shoes. So, the real question is what the Fuck are you even bothering coming on these forums for if your only angle in any of this is to be a prick. No one wants to talk to you or hear your opinion because your the exact arrogance that makes others suffer.
absolutley. and true.. they are not reading your post.
Cheer up my friend! You have a lot more then what many others have. Sorry to hear you are not Magnum PI driving around Hawaii in a Ferrari. I would love to drive a Ferrari myself, but for now must settle for the Chevy Impala.
See that, you didn't read a single word of it. Not everyone is selfless, grow the fuck up and have a nice day Magnum
Invest in guns... much better investment; they always appreciate in America. Really.
There are many American that are living in the street, tent cities and dying due to lack of medical care. Many have worked their whole life for a corporation, have been duped out of their pensions and have lost their homes. I purchased a house 13 years ago for $120k which is now worth $78k. So much for being told to do everything right and you will be okay and your house will be your best investment for retirement. I realize how bad other countries are, but this is America a country WE built and that is enough concern for oneself. Each country is their own community and we are fighting for our country and our country to change.
I have a job--a pretty good, well-paying job, in fact. What does that have to do with the fact that the U.S. electoral system has been COMPLETELY corrupted by corporate and special-interest money? How does someone having a job change that? You really need to stop embarrassing yourself in public--you're obviously extremely confused about a lot of things...
our government has allowed all our jobs to be outsourced just what do you expect? we all move to china to find a job because there are none here.
There are not enough jobs left in America for everyone!
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YOU, "hotrod02 " are a TROLL, an Un-American PARASITE of society and you have the gumption to advise others to "get a job"????
Get a REAL JOB, TROLL, make an HONEST LIVING for a change!
Hes a troll because he disagrees? /shakehead
There are a lot of those around, making absurd statements and comparisons.
Has been for a couple of months now.
NOT "because he disagrees". Try looking up the DEFINITION of "troll"...
"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
I know what one is. This guy was stateing his opinion and got called a troll. And here we are.
Just because someone has a contrary opinion then they are a troll?
NOT "because he has a contrary opinion". Let's look up the DEFINITION of "troll"...
"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
Where do you get off calling everyone a troll all the time. I've seen you do it in many threads or simply type in ignore like you some how have superior wisdom and intelligence. You are more then likely one of these spoiled brats that everyone despises. If not shame on you for having such poor communications skills and some how believing your opinion to be above everyone else's.
"commonsense"? Just between you and me - you need to change your user name... :)
Seems to me he has plenty of it.
TIOUAISE has been outed as a TROLL long ago! Ignore.
YOU, "Happierbanker" are the TROLL, an Un-American PARASITE of society.
Get a REAL JOB, TROLL, make an HONEST LIVING for a change!
Are you kidding me? That's the best you can come up with? Rather then attacking like you do why not simply make a few intelligent comments that might actually benefit the current state of affairs.
I'm beginning to conclude that a large number of people involved in this movement simply love to complain and protest but offer no solutions. It's so simple when you think about it. If you want change then we must stop electing these corporate owned career politicians. Wall Street is not going to change anything because there are people occupying the streets and complaining that they make too much money. The only way there will be change is if we start electing honest people that won't bow to special interest groups and corporations. What a waste of time to believe gathering in protest is going to accomplish anything. There needs to be an organized effort to elect independent people with common sense that have no party affiliations.
"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
I will let the READERS decide whether hotrod, happierbanker and commonsense qualify as trolls or not. How's that? :o)
How about you really offer a solution? Tell me just how the movement as it now functions is going to unseat the corrupt? If they cared about you or me, we wouldn't be in this situation. They won't respond to these protests because they quite frankly don't care. The only way to affect change is to elect honest people that will end the insanity and affect change legally, passing laws that close the loopholes to corruption.
I disagree : the whole system is hopelessly corrupt. That is why I favor postponing the 2012 elections and holding a NATION-WIDE REFERENDUM instead.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-completely-useless-and-meaningless-2012-electi/
That won't happen. We clear out the corrupt one election at a time. No Republicans, no Democrats. Honest people that have not held office. Are things to complicated for common people to participate in government? Then things are too complicated and it's time to simplify.
One thing I do know, these protests will not affect any real change. They may inspire lip service to appease the masses but that's about it.
Completely disagree. These protests have ALREADY effected (not affected) VERY meaningful change in the political discourse.
OVER AND OUT
I'm not certain how you can say that. There is no current or imminent change. There is a small percentage of the population involved in these protests and many like myself who are part of the 99% have become disenchanted with this movement. Blocking traffic, plans to block public transportation, as far as I am concerned these are terrorist like activities. They bully the 99% as well as the 1%. The police are justified using whatever means necessary to make certain these activities are stopped and the population does not suffer so a few can pretend they have a great purpose. We should act within the law not outside or above it.
Terrorist like activities are:
By claiming that these protesters are taking part in terrorist-like activities just goes to show how well the propagandists are at their job. These protesters are exercising their rights and nothing else matters, yet citizens have been convinced to help strip them of these rights through divide-and-conquer faith in the system.
When we are given unjust laws, refusing to act only within those laws is, in reality, a showing of true respect for common sense and law. Law-abiding citizens of the U.S. should be appalled that the expression of 1st amendment rights is being suppressed.
You have the same right to assemble and protest against the OWS protesters if you so desire, and I believe you would be hard pressed to find anyone willing to suppress your actions since they fall in line with the agenda of the elite class that writes the rules which govern your life. As far as I'm concerned, by focusing your arguments around fad terms like disenchanted, terrorism, and bullying, you are doing nothing but parroting a popular counter argument for perpetuation of a status quo for a broken system.
They DO NOT have the right to block traffic or impede public transportation. If they are not riding the subway they have no business being there. The fewer people mulling around an area that could potentially be a terrorist target the better.
From the protesters taking direct terrorist-like activities to them being potential terrorist targets? lol, really?
Do you have any concerns that don't revolve around a brainwashed notion of evil terrorism being the ultimate plague of today? Do you even know what you're afraid of? Compare how many Americans die each year from the leading cause of death, heart disease, to that of how many die each year from terrorism. Heart disease is a greater evil, yet we don't see trillions of dollars being spent and entire new gov't departments employing thousands of people being made in order to rid the world of it, do we?
Who decided that a life lost to terrorism is more deplorable than any other lost life? The victims of terrorism would want to know first why someone felt innocent lives need be taken to make a stand. The why is that our government, for decades, has had no respect for the autonomy of other nations and has been ruthless in the spread of it's agenda on foreign soil.
The actions of our government and military are the reason terrorists would ever want to kill us to make a point. If you are concerned with terrorism, wouldn't it be more wise to be critical of the organizations inciting it rather than the individuals (potentially) performing it?
As per today's laws, it may be illegal for the protesters to be blocking traffic, but that does not change the fact that they have been granted the right to do so if the action directly reflects the expression of their regresses. As per my previous post, they are respecting law and order by making a stand against what they feel to be unjust laws, and yes, doing so ought to be protected by the 1st Amendment.
Any individual suffering negative consequences as a result of the proximity of protests has the freedom to relocate their residence and/or business away from them. No part of the Constitution grants you the right to request others' rights be oppressed so that your daily routine of business can go unaffected.
Your previous arguments about the effectual course of action being to elect different people into the system is insanity - doing the same over and over again while expecting a different outcome. At the very least, expecting change from civil disobedience and protest has a sane justification.
Naepius- I fear idiots that feel justified in their actions regardless of the effect on those around them. These are the kind of people that overvalue their opinions and make a mess of everything around them. Living on the streets in protest is a waste of time. If you want change then you have to vote out the corporate owned career politicians and elect independent honest people that can bring real (not imaginary) change.
I've traveled all over the world as well. So? What's your pt.? Obviously your pretty happy about the situation out here, in fact your down right arrogant about it.
We should be very happy of our situation to the point we are "down right arrogant" about it. We should be overjoyed over it and raise our heads. However, we should not be in the streets rioting. We have no right to be, our situation isnt that bad. All those so called "Occupiers" do have warm beds to go home to. They just choose not to go. A lot of them have jobs or quit jobs. It sounds like they have a good situation and are complaining because it isnt a great situation. This is the protest of the spoiled who finally have to eat chicken where they ate steak before.
Herman Cain, Rudy G. and so many others are right. Go home and find a job.
No, we are sick of skipping meals so there is enough food for our kids.....we haven't had the choice of chicken or steak, its more like rice and beans or ramen with a can of value brand tomatoes. It is a good thing children are gullible, mine think that is spaghetti.
This has been the Stupidest group of people applying for the title of Puppet President I've seen in my over thirty years!
The idea of a real President of the United States of America died the day JFK was taken out. By the same people that own our government now...........
I am at home and I've held jobs and payed taxes for over 40 years.
Herman Cain as a mentor? Like what? Occupy the 9-9-9? i should think you could do better.
Truth is, it could be better.
OccupyWallstreet
If you have a job then why do you complain? Honestly, if you have work and a good situation then why run out in the streets rioting risking arrest and injury? IMHO, thats ridiculous. Just be happy with what you have then playing the part of a spoiled kid!
Because teabaggers and republicans are trying to further ruin my country, and I love my country. To sit at home would be apathetic.
IMHO it's the ones who sit at home, smug and apathetic, who are the spoiled children, not those who brave the elements and attempt to challenge and change the status quo. .
and continue to be sheeple....... We all can complain about having a job. Remember that document you have to sign in order to get a job? The one that states it is ok with you that the Fed (that is not a part of our Federal Gov.)take $ from your paycheck? But if you don't sign you cannot be hired. Voluntary enslavement............ Ya, I am soo happy bout that! Ya, why stand up for ourselves, our childrens future, our parents past's! Just sit down watch the majic box..... let us continue to take over everything! Let us get you used to seeing these images, so when the real police state happens you don't even notice.........
Might be good for you Rod but I choose to STAND!
Lots of people that have jobs aren't only concerned with their own welfare. They see their hardworking neighbors suffering after looking and looking for jobs that aren't there. How silly you think of people who care about things outside their narrow self-interest as spoiled. Sounds more like people who think "everything's fine cause I got mine" are the spoiled ones. shrug
"We have no right to be, our situation isnt that bad." Says, who? Just because billions are forced to live in squalor doesn't mean the rest of us have to compare ourselves to them to feel better.
I am happy for what I have and I celebrate that everyday. If you are not happy for what you have then I dont know what to tell ya. I can tell you that you look foolish argueing this point from your Iphone.
If you are happy for what you already have, why are you still working to get more? We aren't being greedy because we want food and heat. Oh, and for the record, I don't get a bailout when I spend more than I make and living within my means dictates that an I-anything is not in the budget.
I don't own a Iphone.
In my view, OWS is about partriotism. We are in severe economic austerity and we're merely asking WS and large corporations to set aside their greed and help fellow Americans live a decent life. Too long, too many have ignored the sacrifice of others. It is time for us to vote out those who spend millions on their campaigns and to find others willing to serve their constituents, not endow their pockets.
I totally agree. All the millions spent on campaigning could and should be used for legitimate necessity, not to watch these politicians talk crap about each other, while sidstepping the issue's only to resign later cause they take pictures of thier wieners! Distracting the people with BS while they proceed with thier actual agenda's personal or paid for......
Wait a second, you are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts. You use the phrase "severe economic austerity"...first, do you actually know what that means. If you do know what that means, then please justify that statement. I dont believe your words are accurate.
The problem is we NEED Austerity to get our fiscal house in order. What we HAVE is an unsustainable Welfare, Craddle-To-Grave State.
I only read the headline of your post.
Yes we have the right to protest. Everyone does. Period.
Life will not be a pyramid with the apex sustained by the bottom. But it will be an oceanic circle whose centre will be the individual always ready to perish for the village, the latter ready to perish for the circle of villages till at last the whole becomes one life composed of individuals, never aggressive in their arrogance, but ever humble, sharing the majesty of the oceanic circle of which they are integral units. Therefore, the outermost circumference will not wield power to crush the inner circle, but will give strength to all within and will derive its own strength from it." The general assemblies in cities around the world are living examples of these "ever expanding, never ascending" oceanic circles. When everyone has to be included in decision-making, consensus is the only way. This is how indigenous cultures have practiced democracy throughout history. Future generations are reconnecting to this ancient tradition of shaping real freedom because corporate rule has displaced democracy, and people's representatives have mutated into corporate representatives.
Today, worldwide, representative democracy has reached its democratic limits. From being "by the people, for the people, of the people", it has become "by the corporations, of the corporations, for the corporations". Money drives elections, and money runs government.
WOW! You would see a lot more during your time in this country if you opened your eyes. So, what's your attitude? Eat the shit your fed because it could be worse? It's people like you that just don't get it.
First off, the first amendment gives everyone the right to protest. So all of your "worldly knowledge" obviously hasn't taught you anything about your own constitution. Secondly, watch Inside Job before you come on here spewing any more nonsense. You obviously haven't the slightest idea about anything that goes on behind closed doors in our financial and political sectors. Or just keep sipping pina coladas on a beach in France and leave the politics for the people who know what they're talking about.
blah blah blah... you are a rich fool. of course we have the right to protest. we are FREE people. so, you are telling us that it all has to do with what we are "given" by the corporations? fuck that. its our country, its our lives. WE will decide how things go. WE are not asking for anything, WE are telling you and the corporations how its gonna be. Why? Because it is ours. WE are not for profit. WE are not human resources. WE are what its all about. NOT profit and not about corporations. If you don't understand that, then, YOU are a slave.
I'm not sitting like a brat and complaining, I'm standing like a woman working for a better world. Protest is one part, personal choice to refuse to contribute to a corrupt system when I can avoid it is another.
Sure things can always be worse, this means not to strive for better in the arenas you are in? You realize the poor in other countries benefit as well if those who are the biggest part of the system root out corruption in their part (and in the world, US decisions, from money to cultural have ripple effects everywhere). It's not more stuff we want, it's better lives, and more freedom for everyone.
So until we are living in the streets eating dirt we should do nothing to make better what we have? Maybe we should discontinue voting...town hall meetings..transparent government. It has always amazed me that people have an "if it is not broken, don't fix it attitude," in regards to our society. It is my belief that our founding fathers wanted us to improve America through every single generation. Why stick to something just because we have not reached rock bottom (yet)? You say you are a world traveler, but you do not indicate how you acquire the funds to do so. If you are rich, is this how you imagine us poor folk? I am not on this forum because I cannot afford an iphone, my phone cost $15 and that is the least of my worries. I know what it feels like to be hungry. I know what it feels like to have to lend my mom $20. I know what it feels like to be cold because I don't have the money to afford blankets in the winter. I try to fend for myself and not rely on the government for food stamps, public housing or any other type of aid. I have very little money while I try to go to school and make a better future for myself. I don't know what it is like to see the world. While I may not be half dying, I think that I am allowed, and furthermore required as my civic duty, to demand more from our government. I donate and volunteer whenever I can. I have not moved to a different country because I am proud to be an America. With that pride, I exercise one of the greatest gifts America gave to me, freedom of speech, and my ability to participate in government. So I will continue to support Occupy Wall Street and not let myself settle for mediocrity in the greatest nation in the world. By the way, I don't have any debt and I only borrow what I have.....
Have a great day, and hope you grow and learn as a person.
The world is greatly affected by what happens in the U.S. I too am a world traveler and let me tell you, the U.S. has it's arm virtually every where. What happens in the U.S. will effect the world. This is for everyone, everywhere. The occupy movement is worldwide.
The OWS movement is about economic inequality in the United States. Economic inequality in the world, across nations, can't even begin to be addressed if we can't address economic inequality right here. 30/40 years ago the average CEO earned 40 times the pay of an average worker. Today the average CEO earns 343 times the wage of an average worker. 1 in 7 Americans are on food stamps (and many of them work at low paying jobs.) This movement is about fairness. A living wage so that 40% of our African American children and 22% of our children overall do not have to continue to live in poverty. It is about removing corruption from our government caused by corporations lobbying and buying our politicians.
Yes, I have a right to protest. Here is what I'm protesting:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-1-laughs-because-they-believe-you-are-too-lazy/
I don't think we became the greatest country on the planet with a "at least we're better off than them" perspective. Even if there's 1 family sleeping on the street tonight, there's the possibility of being better than we are. I am so sick of this "I got mine; screw the rest of you" mentality. I refuse to believe that's what we have devolved into. We are better than that. We are Americans.
I just read your headline can't be wasting time with the rest...... I'm so sick of comments like yours, come back and post when you lost your job and can't fine a nearly suitable replacment, your house is in forclosure and you unemployment insurance has run out two month ago!
Greetings hotrod02 - I'm ThunderclapNewman. May I say that while most are aware of the situation regarding poverty in the world and how we all want very much to lift those very unfortunate souls out of such deparate straits, we must help ourselves before we can help others. That's how bad things have gotten. Charity begins at home, as they say. Regarding your characterization of who Occupiers are, may I say that, as for me, I'm a 60-something Vietnam War veteran and have served as a union official for a local of the AFGE for 28 years. I enjoy a good living and steady employment at my same job for the last 31 years. My joining OWS is because I have been working since I was 11 years old and in all that time I've seen our wonderful country continue a slow, steady downward spiral toward despair and away from "a fair shake" for all - the things that those who went before us fought for in the labor movement's early days. The loss of 9,000,000 (that's NINE MILLION) manufacturing jobs since 1979?? The loss of worker rights and benefits since the 1980s?? Now the potential loss of Social Security and Medicare? We "spoiled brats" are smart enough to spot a trend when we see one and we aren't happy about that trend - no sir (or Maam), not one little bit. Enough is enough. We're going to continue to do all we can to inform, educate and just plain draw attention to just what it is we are not at all pleased about. We have a list of grievances; we are many; we are strong and we are committed and you are hearing those grievances, assuming you've bothered to take the time to do more than come here to chastise. The November 17th Day Of Action with it's 35,000 marchers in NYC alone is nothing compared to what is to come if you don't start listening. That is not a threat; that's a promise. "...don't sit there like a brat?" Indeed! Contrast and compare all you wish; we aren't going away. Thank you for your kind attention. Respectfully, ThunderclapNewman
We do have the right to protest. We are also protesting poverty and homelessness in America. Many people are hoping that this movement will result in a law that guarantees the right to a home. Many of us feel that we should help to stop poverty in America, and then try to help other countries.
The following is from http://www.perkel.com/politics/issues/fourth.htm
"What they didn't tell you in school"
"In school you were taught that the Government has three branches, the Legislative branch, the Executive branch, and the Judicial branch. The Legislative branch is the Congress and they make the laws. The Executive branch is the President, who runs the daily business of government. The Judicial branch is the Courts who interpret the law and determine of laws are constitutional. These are the three branches of government you were taught in the government-controlled schools. But there is a fourth branch of government, and that's the People."
" Some would argue that the People are not a branch of the Government. They would argue that we have a government that is of the People, by the People, and for the People. They would argue that through voting that the Government represents the People and that the Government is the People. In theory, and in an ideal world, this would be true. And for the most part it is true. But there are time when the Government does not represent the People and that the interests of the Government are not the interests of the People. There are times when the People have to assert their will directly and overrule the Government and assert the supremacy of the will of the People over the will of the Government."
"The Government Exists for the Sole Purpose of Serving the People, not Ruling the People The supremacy of the People is preserved throughout all the documents and papers used in the formation of the Government by the People. The preamble to the United States Constitution states, "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." Clearly the Constitution was created to form a government who's sole purpose was to serve the People and for no other purpose. The founding fathers went to great pains to ensure, through the separation of powers and the balance of power that no branch of government would ever become dominate and become a force that rules the People rather than serves the People."
The Constitution guarantees the citizens of the United States a government by the people for the people. Right now all levels of our government are more for corporate big money by corporate big money. THAT IS REASON ENOUGH TO PROTEST.
You could have traveled less, dined fewer times on caviar, truffles and $10,000 bottles of wine and donated money to the poor all over the world.
As Americans these people have every right to express their views. We have an obligation to provide our citizens with access to affordable education. I am a disabled veteran, a medically retired major in the Marines, injured in a friendly fire incident. I'm still paying my student loans over 13 years after graduating. Do you know what people are protesting? After the bailout in 2008 the government assigned new corporate officers to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. These corporate officers are demanding huge bonuses for leading companies that are still bleeding cash. I led men in Iraq who died earning $30K a year. They did it because they love this country and love being Americans. The fact that we cant find corporate execs to bail out malfunctioning government institutions because they care about this country, the fact that we place people in control of government institutions that continue to fail is a sad testimony to the state of our collective values. This movement represents a shift in values that I welcome. We don't need more than we take more than we can use and demand more than we can spend. I have been to countries with people in need, but the global economy is interconnected, and global stability and domestic stability go hand in hand. I applaud the Occupy movements because they represent a shift to more humble values, and the Men that died under my command would have wanted an America where people can speak out. These people arent spoiled. They just are tired of spending $80K on college and having to work at Starbucks or Barnes and Noble. I served my country for 12 years and went to combat four times. I submit that I have earned the right to protest.
First, I don't know if you have heard this lately, but thank you. Without the courage and sacrifice that you and your brothers and sisters in arms so willingly gave for the rest of us, we wouldn't have the freedom or the right to speak up and stand up for what we believe in.
Second, even after you have given everything anyone could ever ask someone to give their country, you are putting yourself out there again for our benefit. There are no words to convey the gratitude for your actions on behalf of the country. Doubtless through your service, you have already received medals and other accolades, but you deserve much more.
Your comparison of other nations is rather ignorant to be frank. What you are implying is the whole reason those nations don't excel in the first place. You suggest that we should be compliant and remain sheep, or that we should lie down an take it. You are a weak individual! People like you follow, they don't lead!
Hallo. You make some great point. I just want to ask something: is all that poverty and ugliness you have experienced and visited OKAY? Do you agree that all those situations are as they should be? Do you feel personally justified in getting to travel the world and live in some measure of luxury (compared to your examples)? Do you wish to help all those examples continue?
Do you want to know, without a doubt, that NO you cannot go to school? Do you want to know that NO, without exception, if you do not have money you will be evicted from the emergency room? Do you want to know that definitively NO, despite skills, training, experience, and several years of loyalty to your employer, you will get fired when the board of directors needs a bigger dividend and you cost them too much?
I too have been privileged to travel worldwide, always on a shoestring since I usually earn very little money. In the past few years here in the US, I cannot afford health care. I cannot find more than part-time temp work, despite having a BA, AAS, and years of expertise and excellent working reputation. I cannot afford to buy any Christmas gifts for family or friends this year. I have cut my power, cable TV (required for local channels), and other utilities. I have never had an i-ANYthing. I have never owned a house/condo, never can aford it, and do not own anything like a car. Any money I get goes to improving my education. I am in my mod-40's, and considered obsolete, and am considered worthless since I cannot pull out my wallet and hand over my minimal money to retailers.
I DO teach part-time, get no benefits, no pension, no expectation of another class to teach each upcoming quarter, and have to pay for supplies.
What part of my life is a luxury - in the context of the USA, where everyone has indoor plumbing, food available (if even from garbage cans), streets and libraries, parks and the constant lure/promise/push to own more luxuries?
What is YOUR answer? How are YOU personally taking responsibility to make a difference, and to be part of defining and solving the core problems, rather than whining because your sensitive world-traveled ears just don't like that people actually want something more solid than put-down's from your?
Oh, by the way, many of the folks you are complaining about at OWS do YES live on the streets, have no health or mental health support, have no assistance after being kicked out of the foster care system at 18, have no support in gang neighborhoods, have no hope of even getting jobs because of underfunded education, etc.
Quit complaining, and DO something HERE to make a positive difference!!
Trolls and spammers... The 1% propaganda machine is rolling.
They spew lies and expect people to read them. Probably sitting back in his fat-cat chair on Wall Street or a lobbyist. Be afraid, be very afraid...
By spring these patriots will be marching on Washington and they will be carrying tar and feathers. You cannot stop this movement with your words and if you cared for your country, your children or your children's children, you would be in the street instead of trolling this forum.
This observation made by the poster is so general. Poverty in the world has been helped along by the disgusting practices of the IMF and World Bank which the US controls. The United States has wreaked havoc across the globe with invasions, wars and interference. Here at home our government has allowed the american people, their taxes, to be robbed from us.
Want your story to be heard?
This is a website where you can post 500 word autobiographical stories.
www.adjule.com
The point of the website is to allow readers to read the experiences of "others." What this will accomplish, I do not know. However, I do think people often feel alone in their experiences, and generally do not understand why others act they way they do. Maybe the site will provide a vector to create some tolerance and understanding. Maybe it will be a place were people can gain insight into the struggles of others.
Your claim that we should celebrate what we do have is irrelevant when what we do have is being taken away from us. When people say I should just be happy to have a job, I tell them I am, but what happens when I lose this job (as I did in 2010 for nine months). Should I simply be happy that I have food and water. The new poor in America, were the middle class and some of them were making decent livings (I've heard stories of family incomes ranging from 75K to 100K) until they were laid off. In the case of the person making 75K, this woman put out hundreds of applications and had to settle for minimum wage at Target. Why don't you go celebrate what you have and leave the protest to those who do feel cheated?
Let me answer this question in detail. First of all, you seem like a young person. If you are not young, then Im afraid you still have some growing up to do.
I have been employed and unemployed during a few periods in my life. There has been no recession that has been kind to me in that reguard and Ive been through a few of them which happen every 5-7 years like clockwork. I can tell you with all certainty that during any period of time employment is never guaranteed. When you do find yourself unemployed, then you have to do whatever you can to find employment which may include moving or taking a position which you may not normally take. I have worked many types of jobs in my lifetime to include waiting tables to administrative jobs to driving school buses to management positions. If there was work available to me, I took it.
I once had your attitude where when I was unemployed I waited for a while, but my parents are no longer living so I dont have that option anymore. Since the 1980s, I have always had work because Ive been willing to accept whatever job may come my way. My employers enjoy my work ethic. I own a house, a car and I am well ahead on whatever payments I have. My destiny is my own. I wish your destiny was your own...
I was gainfully employed consistently from 1983 until December of 2009, and I have had various jobs, even when I was putting myself through engineering school. I should have finished college in 1987, but I came to Miami to work for an Uncle of mine in 1985, removing asbestos. It was during this period that I decided to go back to school (in Miami) and I graduated in 1994. While attending school I did work study, but more often than not I was working full time re-stocking vending machines or bouncing at nightclubs. I do wish that I had bought a house back then, but I didn't have the money. Instead, when I got a job in my field, I paid my credit cards (1 - Mastercard and 1 - Discover Card) off every month, kept up with a car payment and saved my money. As the housing market continued to rise, I finally decided to buy a home in my price range (actually below my price range). After putting money into home improvements for a couple of years (tiling the back porch, redoing the bathroom), the housing bubble burst and I watched as my home lost not only the value it had gained, but more than 60% of the price I paid for it. Still, I continued making payment, until, as I said, I was laid off. Now, if, from what I just detailed, you still think I need to grow up, that is your prerogative, but my feeling is this: I did nothing that justified me getting laid off. As a matter of fact, just before I was let go, I saved the company $457,000.00 (four hundred and fifty seven thousand dollars). I did nothing to deserve the value of my home to be devalued to the 70's prices for my home, especially given the improvements (none paid for through refinancing or taking out second or third loans on the home) and I did nothing to have my hope for a bright future tarnished. From what you've said, it seems more the case that you need to grow up and settle on a career instead of settling for jobs that come and go. And, as for your destiny, I hope your destiny stays your own, but it is unlikely to happen given the current path that those Ayn Rand loving republicans and the do nothing democrats have put us all on. Also, you might want to look into these 5-7 year recessions of yours because given your math, I have gone through at least four of them and I can honestly say that this is the first one that impacted me personally. I feel sorry for you, if you really believe we should all be happy with what's happening in our country and even more sorry if you are just trying to be provocative. Good luck to you Hotrod
Your assessment of the poverty here may be correct, but your implying that Americans should simply take what they get is STUPID! Should we wait until the poverty level is comparable to the examples you referenced? Should we continue to ignore the fact that income inequality continues to push more middle class citizens into poverty? I love when politicians compare us to China and how cheap the labor is there. is that what you say we should be complacent about. Should we bury our heads further in the sand and hope everything will be fine when we re-emerge? There are homeless people in Washington D.C. who are getting work daily, evicting families that can no longer pay their mortgage. Is that something that we should accept as the American Dream. If you think we should wait until America is one big ghetto, perhaps you have an affinity for poverty and perhaps your should put your traveling shoes back on so you can go and commiserate with the impoverished abroad. I wonder how much they would care about what you wrote here. In each of those countries you traveled to, you could probably say, "Oh, you're a bunch of baby here in Mexico, they're dying on a daily basis in Columbia."
I honestly think you have a lot of growing up to do. The situation isnt that bad here. I think the more you argue you are in a bad situation while typing from your $5000 Macbook Pro the more foolish you look.
Some of us are talented enough to build our own PC's for around $300 or less. Personally I don't know anyone who would/could spend that much on a computer.
I think your just here to get people riled up....
You like to assume I see. May I ask what you think is good about the situation here and why do you think we should wait for more poverty to take the hopes and dreams of more Americans. As far as growing up. What exactly did you do in these other countries you visited? Are you a travel writer? Did you work for some charity (I don't because you don't sound very charitable). What did you do to help those poor people that you liked to visit. Or were you just going there so you could feel better about the little you have here in America?'
The answer to that question is there is nothing you as an individual can really do to help those people out in other countries. Sure, you can give them whatever money you have, but you can't really solve their longterm problems. The fact is billions in the way of charity have been pumped into these countries without any result. Instead of demonizing the 1%, you should be thanking them for funneling money and business into these countries. However, even the 1% cant help them and I dont know who or what could. Certainly, Socialism and Communism never helped anyone and those are not answers either.
I am doing something to help out their situation and that is by visiting their country and spending. Honestly, that is the best I can do. If I were Bill Gates, then I would do more, but I am not quite at that level.
Let me tell you about how it is. Every 5-7 years like clockwork there are recessions. You have your good times and then you have your bad times. Some of these recessions have really kicked my ass and employment in my life has never been guaranteed. In fact, there are never any guarantees.
Why I make the comment that you should grow up is because you dont seem to want to admit that there will be bad times in life? Im telling you there will and this isnt "bad" yet to be honest.
My best advice for you is to adapt and overcome. Do not live beyond your means. I dont have a macbook, but a $400 generic laptop which works just fine.
I enjoy traveling and thats why I go. It makes me happy. Another suggestion I have for you is to do what makes you happy.
Nicely put, but I still disagree that because Americans have it better than the rest of the world, we should allow things to get worse. That just doesn't make sense to me, not if we can make things better or at least stop them from getting worse. Any comparison to the poverty in other countries seems irrelevant, especially given that the 1% are pumping money into other countries where their money makes no difference for the poor. Why should I be happy about that, if it doesn't help, but it could help here. And, if you think the 1% do that out of the kindness of their hearts . . . Naw, you couldn't believe that. It's all about money and by the 1% outsourcing jobs to make greater profits, it weakens our economy and makes people in America more desperate, to the point that they are willing to take manufacturing jobs here at half the rate they were in years past. This too would be fine except for the fact the the 1% also control the bills that everyone has to pay and they are not cutting those in half. This country has taken a big leap back in time and not back to "The Good Ole Days", which were a myth for so many in this country. As for my computer, I have a netbook, which probably cost around $400 or less and as for doing what makes me happy, I did do that until like so many, I bought a home (that I could afford until I got laid off for almost a year). I used to travel a lot (on the cheap) to places like Russia, Greece, Costa Rico, Nicaragua, Puerto Rico and I too saw the poverty that exists in these countries, so I don't feel the need to celebrate what I have, because I don't have these things anymore. Luckily, I have no children, but the home I bought was an investment that I intended to leave to my niece as was the money I had saved up until the layoff and I refuse to let the next ten years look like the last ten years for me, my niece, my family and for as many people as I believe the Occupy Wall Street movement stands for. If you choose to be happy with what you have, that's fine, but don't begrudge those who aren't happy with what they are left with, debt, hopelessness, disillusionment, poverty and the threat of more troubling times to come. And if we should all just celebrate what we do have then maybe your message should be directed at the multimillionaires and billionaires who never seem happy with what they have. Good luck to you and save travels my friend.
so because the extreme poor in the philippines aren't protesting their injustices we shouldn't protest ours? you're comments are just intellectually shallow. this is america, where protesting is considered a right, and a vital part of creating change. thank god we are not some third world dictatorship where protested where probably be killed doing what they are doing here. thank god we live in a society where we can protest. the majority will decide whether the protesters have a point,certainly not you.
I think the 4chan trolls are leaking over into occupywallst.org. The people arguing against the movement in this post are clearly the same kind of scum that inhabit 4chan. "Blah blah blah blah, sorry your not rich, now get a job you lazy fucking hippie." There's no point to what their saying other than to troll. Honestly I think moderators should watch for these kinds of posts. These trolls can quickly latch on to a website like this and give the appearance of a divided community, and create a hostile environment. This is obviously their goal, and they shouldn't have this opportunity here.
"It could be worse" is an argument for idiots.
Honestly, is this how Occupiers treat people with a contrary opinion?
No. It isn't. It is the impassioned response of individuals who fel honestly insulted by your comments. Many are hard working, mature adults who have legitimate complaints against the way they are being treated by their own government.
I don't profess that I have the knowledge, or the talent that someone like Thomas Paine did, so I am going to quote something 200 yrs old but still highly relevant:
"....for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries BY A GOVERNMENT, which we might expexct in a country WITHOUT GOVERNMENT, our own calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer."
You don't have an opinion, you have a flawed, meaningless argument, you spew your propaganda because you are scared. Guess what, the party's over.
They are very smart and fed up kids. Being spoiled by material garbage and corporate greed and corruption is what they are fighting against. Legacy and entitlement is no way to live. They want a fresh new start and are willing to sacrifice the life mommy and daddy got caught up in and are probably in debt up to their ears for to make a better life for future generations. I am a baby boomer and I am sick and tired of the rat race..I am successful, but it's not about me. My kids are going to have a lousy time of it when they graduate from college in a few years. I am fighting for them.
Thank you. ~ the next generation
If they are so smart why do they believe they will get the change they desire by living on the streets and protesting? This is not a formula to achieve the change they desire. Change will come from ousting career politicians and electing true representatives of the people. These new elected officials can correct the wrongs and institute the necessary change passing laws that fit the scheme of our current day and close the loopholes that serve corruption. These "smart" kids as you call them should be spending their energy working within the system to achieve real change.
Yeah, like that can actually happen. The choices for our elected officials are just clones of one another...supported and funded by Big Oil, Big Pharma and Big Banks. There is no such thing as representation of the PEOPLE..Representation of the corporations are the choices we get.
We need to start organizing and finding honest successful people that are representative of the majority of the people in this country. Encourage them to run and vote them into office. Protesting on the streets will change nothing. Greed and corruption are so engrained in our government and financial sectors that the only way to make change is to oust the corrupt.
Finding them is one thing...giving them a platform for success is impossible without big pockets. Occupy is doing what is necessary until someone has the cahones to stand up to teh Corporat-ocracy and the way our electoral system is run presently.
The method is the equivalent of a screen door on a submarine. Public opinion turns against protesters when they pull stunts that inconvenience the general public. Blocking bridges, occupying subways, perhaps some of the stupidest stunts outside of violence.
totally disagree with that statement. Public opinion is for change in government, the banking system, and wall street reform. Most however are just too squeamish to tale action like the Occupiers are doing. In principle however, they are for what they stand for. They need a politician to run on the Occupy platform...unfortunately...who would financially support him or her.
The occupiers perhaps? If the public opinion is for change then let the public get behind their politicians of choice. But the public doesn't really want change, hence you have career politicians that have been in office for what seems an eternity.
That's because we always choose the lesser of the evils or are programmed to vote along stupid party lines. I have never been happy with my choices in any office.
As long as we allow Republicans and Democrats to control our political systems then we will remain in the same sad state we are currently in. Policies are set by the leaders of the parties behind the scene and the money that has bought them just as much as the politicians themselves. The party leaders in large part determines who will represent the party.
I do not hold the US up to the standards of the rest of the world. That's how you get complacent with your progress so far. I hold them up to the standard I have of a perfect world, because that is what I want to see them strive for.
This is a common theme among Occupiers. That common theme is they want Utopia or the perfect world. We can sure strive for Utopia, but understand, we will never be perfect. Utopia is a place that only exists in fairy tales. You have control over your life and is it a perfect reality? There can be no perfection and that is what most Occupiers need to come to grips with.
We may have our heads in the clouds, but our feet are on the ground. Just because we are all aware that a perfect world is at best a dream and at worst a justification for wholesale slaughter, does not mean we cannot strive for better than what we have at present.
What would you have us strive toward then? A decent world? An OK world? Why not set the highest goal we can, and see how close we can get?
Wow, you must be a 1%'r. Yeah the yuppies joined in too... This movement is about more than Jobs working for the same companies that are buying our politicians, air, water, seeds, fuels and rights. It's about our very civilization and what many of us have awoken to during our slumber. Many have realized they are sheeple and have decided to wake up decide what they believe and stand together for the common good of all! Not just USA but All. We have been mere peons and pawns for our political system, financial system, health system and why: so the few can get richer? Really how much money do you bastards need? Can't take it with you when ya go! I don't think God takes Visa. If you've traveled so much than you must also have noticed the same scenario playing out around the world, the same people, the same corruption of ideals.... The same Theft of human rights, by outright attack or trickery and fear based manipulations making us give them up to survive. I have lived in the streets of the US. I may have had less at that time, but at least I was truly free! Not owned by anyone or anything.
Having to sign a document in order to work giving up my earned wages to a corp that is not even a part of our Federal Government is a crime!
The theft of our government is a crime! Using my tax money to cover the lies and thivery of multinational corporations and families is a crime! Using my tax money to fight wars I (nor congress) has voted for is a crime! Whittling away our rights in the name of protection, is a crime!
We want accountability!
Wanna help the economy tax toilet paper! 5-10 cents a pack, everyone wipes their A**.
There isn't that much poverty in the United States? Well, I can think of 46.2 million Americans who might disagree.
Yes, there is strife and injustice in the world. Yes, people are stripped of their basic human rights on a daily basis. However, that's no reason to forfeit ours. Fighting inequity is always the right thing to do.
OMG & you're a spoiled asshat that needs your martini NOW! What if many of these young people can't understand why we have so much money, power & resources why ANYONE would allow third world countries to exist in the first place! Well I'm over 50 & I still can't understand that one either! (BTW asshat! If you ever visited the Rosebud or many American Indian Reservations in the USA you would see poverty like you've claimed you've seen in the Philippines!) Basically you're f-n stupid comment covered many of the same talking points spewed by shills, trolls, and plain asshats of the world who take the time to come here to post because they're f-n scared of the Occupy Movement! What your Tea Party, Faux News, GOP Talking Points covered:
1) Call them Spoiled Brats who are too lazy to find real jobs or even work @ McDonald's! 2) Point out how hypocritical they are because they use capitalistic technology like, cameras, IPhone's & the Internet! 3) Blame all the Foreclosures on people buying houses they can't afford! 4) Blame all the Foreclosures on our government forcing banks to lend to minorities & poor people! 5) Blame all the financial problems on the American people living WAY beyond their means! 6) Compare their lifestyle to lifestyle of PEOPLE who really live in poverty & are starving like people in third world countries! 7) They should MOVE they're asses to ND to work in a field that distributes to destroying our PLANET!
These tactics don't work here so STFU & YOU get a F-N real job!
This is true, in some countries the poverty level is much worse. But just because it is worse elsewhere doesn't mean that people whom are suffering here have no right to speak. It isn't right for you to generalize and assume that everyone in this country is well off, as many aren't.
I have known throughout my life several people whom were homeless. I can go to downtown LA and see plenty sitting around on the street. There is definitely poverty here, just it is often contained in certain areas as richer neighborhoods will make sure the cops kick the homeless out wherever they try to rest.
I have applied for jobs and been told they got 500 applicants. These are facts, it really is tough to get a job these days, and some people are not making it.
There are many things that effect how someone's life turns out, beauty, family finances, connections etc. If you are lucky you have something in your corner to help you make it. For some though, they didn't have a good start and even when they apply and apply, perhaps due to looks, cheap clothes, lack of good jobs on the resume (as it is hard to get a good paying job without having one already on your resume) etc they get turned down time and time again.
I support movements for a better economy, more jobs, and fairness to those who are in need. I myself may have a job (though it doesn't pay super great but I get by ok for now) but that doesn't mean I don't understand the struggle, and haven't faced them myself. I have been unemployed, spending 8 hours a day applying for jobs, interviewing, working on increasing my skills with programs so I could add it to my resume. It is not easy, and wherever poverty and need lies there is a problem.
The way I see it, there is enough land for everyone to have somewhere to live, and we have the technology for everyone to have a meal. I don't see why it isn't happening, not just in the US but worldwide. (well, I know why it isn't happening, but I am just saying that I believe things should be different) So yeah, there is nothing wrong with people whom are not living on the streets to join in the protesting, as they are in this economy together and would like to see positive changes.
Now wheither protesting is helping is a question, but at the very least it is raising awareness and people I guess feel so confused. They don't know really how to solve the problems. Perhaps at least the protesting gets people thinking about it so maybe something will actually get done.
This country gives more to poor people then any othee country in the world in the form of welfare. Which is paid for with taxes. Which is paid for by.......
Corporate welfare - you may be right. Welfare to the handicapped and those in extreme poverty - you are misinformed.
Can you please show proof of your information? Welfare and medicare make up around 50% of our budget, which around 50% is paid for by these people you claim to hate. Do not... Oh wait I guess this is the place for extreme propaganda.
Your figures are hugely inflated.
Is unemployment insurance welfare? Worker's compensation for the injured? If you include those, you get 13% of the budget. Medicare is about 14% of the budget. I wouldn't include unemployment and w. comp., but including them gets to 27%.
Corporate welfare is buried under many categories: gas and oil depletion; agricultural subsidies, etc. The agr. subsidies are less than 1% of the federal budget, but they go to a very small number of people who are already making good net incomes. The oil and gas subsidies go to the most profitable companies on the planet.
Corporate welfare goes to the rich, because they have the power.
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1258 http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/welfare_budget_2012_4.html http://www.heritage.org/research/commentary/2011/03/farm-subsidies-ripe-for-reform http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/09/13/318266/fund-jobs-package-obama-proposes-cutting-oil-and-gas-subsidies/
Y
Anybody using welfare is obligated to at least 20 hours of community service and drug tested. Problem solved!
Sounds good to me.
There are many ways to look at statistics but from what I have seen this is not the country that is the best to its poor. There are some European welfare states that have much more services and more care for their citizens. We don't even have healthcare for all here, which many countries do.
Yea sorry i left them out because they are broke socialist nanny states. Either way, welfare and medicare come from taxes. Which are paid largely by the people you demonize. You say they should give more im sure. Go research and find out just how much they give and where it goes. If you dont see the real enemy then, then there is no help for you.
And being a rich state is the objective, instead of the happiness and well-being of the citizens? I have no problem with taxation, if it is done correctly and used properly. Plenty of money is going out the window in wars and other frivilous spending. This is true, but it is also true that the rich do get a lot of tax breaks, and some are paying a smaller precentage than others making far less.
The money definitely needs to be spent better, and changes should be made. This is what I am saying, I am not an economics major and wouldn't say that I know the perfect solution to the problem, just that there is a problem and there is reason to be looking for solutions. There are poor people and those with minimum wage jobs that aren't able to survive. Things do need to change.
This same argument is so overused and pointless to anyone using logic and common sense to guide their judgement. You cannot dole out happiness to everyone who thinks they deserve it. These other countries have proved it. Happiness isnt guaranteed you have to work hard and ill be damned if ill ever be happy about my dime supporting people who wont even get off their ass to help themselves.
Happiness is never guaranteed but at least basic necessities for living should be. And actually they have done studies and sometimes these "social nanny" countries rank higher in average level of happiness than the US does.
And the issue isn't that people don't want to work, it is that even if they get a minimum wage job it doesn't actually pay enough for rent and basic necessities like food. And another issue is the high unemployment rate, for people to be on unemployment they have to try to get 3 jobs a week and provide evidence (name and number etc) of who they talked to. So there are tones of people looking but not finding due to the economic problems.
Im sure they are happy. Until austerity comes then they riot. You are arguing against my personal experiance with people i know that do not want to work because they are taken care of. I dont appreciate you using your opinion as fact.
If anyone is using their opinion as fact, it is you. You have met some people whom don't want to work, but that doesn't mean that everyone is like that. You are generalizing. I am not saying that those people don't exist, as there are some. I have met a few people that say they just want to get married and not work at all. But I also have known many people whom have been homeless for years and abused on the streets. I have a friend who's parents died and he became a ward of the state when he was a child. They didn't have anywhere to place him though so as a teen they just would send him a check that wasn't even enough to cover rent and he lived on someone's couch for a few years. Then he lived outside and under trees for a while and in shelters. It is really hard to get a job when you don't have an address or good interview clothes. You don't really know the struggles some people go through in life, and how their disadvantages follow them.
If you want to discuss facts, the facts are in the US unemployment is around what, 9%? (though in my state it is 12%- which is a lower figure than the truth as there are many people whom are working part time that want another job or a full time job, so really the applicant pool is very large). There are many people actually looking for work, one job I applied for almost two years ago said they got over 500 applicants(and this was not a great job, it was salary, amounting to a little over 10 an hour, and required 6 days of work-over 44 hours total, with no overtime since it was salary). There are even Mcdonalds jobs that have received 300+ applications for one position that doesn't even pay enough for someone to live off the earnings. Now I was lucky enough to find jobs in this shitty economy but I know many people who haven't. I remember when I left my last job the girl I was training said she had been looking for over a year, has a degree, had office experience, but no one would hire her. She said she was applying constantly and even interviewing countless times but since there were so many applicants it was hard for her to get anything. These are the facts, that many are trying but not finding, or if they find something and it is 8 an hr, they can't even afford basic necessities.
I never said everyone was like that. I know good people that need the support until they get back on their feet. Your whole useless post is based on that assumption. Its pointless talking with you.
You are the one who responded to my post in the first place to complain about welfare. If you don't have a problem with it in some instances then maybe you should have the wisdom to not start a pointless conversation.
Oh it had a point, its a great system just like all of them, put into place to help good people of strong morale value thats being exploited by so very many to the detriment of the country and economy.
If anything is actually causing serious detriment to the economy of this country it isn't social welfare, it is war(which is a high figure, around 40% of the federal budget for the current military). And well, also all these bailouts that basically gave taxpayer money back to the corporations that are not adapting and functioning properly in the first place. This country needs some bookkeeping help, fast. The media just likes to focus on the few stories of people getting a 700 dollar check a month for free(which isn't even enough to pay rent in many places). Woopie, that is nothing in comparison to the money going to other venues like war. Why don't you look up the breakdown of the federal budget, social welfare isn't the top spender.
And then the tax breaks that give companies a break for outsourcing jobs. That isn't helping either with the unemployment rates and dropping pay scales.
Defense is around 20% last I checked, welfare itself is around 40, show me your sites that say Im wrong? You are misguided, why hate the banks for taking money that was offered to them? Do you think they forced Obama and his democratic controlled senate and house to give them? Laughoutloud? It makes me sad to see honest Americans turned into sheep so easily.
Please I know people on unemployment that get a couple thousand a month, plus food stamps, again, misguided., misinformed, you choose.
People move their jobs overseas because they cant make any money with these greedy ass Americans. Have a good night.
The federal government may report that but you have to actually look at what is included in the 20% and in the 40%. For instance, some of the breakdowns include payments to former military personal in the social welfare pie instead of included as a cost of war and military. http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm That is one site you can take a look at. Whatever site you see though has different breakdowns it seems, because they will add things under one heading that maybe should be in another. But from the looks of it it seems like there is a lot of deception going on.
Let me put an excerpt from that site for an idea: "The U.S. Government says that military spending amounts to 20% of the budget, the Center for Defense Information (CDI) reports 51%, the Friends Committee on National Legislation (FCNL) reports 43%, and the War Resisters League claims 54%. Why the variation?
Different groups have different purposes in how they present the budget figures. WRL’s goal has been to show the percentage of money that goes to the military (current and past) so that people paying — or not paying — their federal taxes would know what portion of their payments are military-oriented. Also, some of the numbers are for different fiscal years."
I am sure Obama is getting paid by someone to push for many of his policies. The banks didn't have to give their leaders large bonuses and throw parties with the money, that is for sure.
Unemployment and social security depend on what you were making beforehand, or if you are getting payments for a dead parent, it will be dependent upon their former income. So yes if someone had a good job (or lives in a state with a higher payment, as they adjust the payments based on the location to handle the rent change) then yeah some may be getting over a thousand. But most people I have talked to are getting around 700 (that didn't have good former jobs).
They move their jobs overseas to increase their profit margins by hiring workers at even worse wages than in the US.(though each countries standards of living are different, and some maybe would need less money due to less inflation of rent and things like that, but even with that in account many are still getting starvation wages) I don't know if you forgot but some big companies like Nike were caught with child labor factories. These companies aren't going overseas to be nice, they are going to get as much profit as they can.
Also, in places like Kenya some farmers are being paid so little that they can't survive, people are just abandoning family farms they held for generations since it is getting so bad for them. Then there are some countries in central and south America that their corrupt governments are allowing a company that created seeds that do not reproduce after a season to be the sole seller of seeds. So people in those countries are also leaving their family lots because they can't afford to keep buying seeds every season. Then they travel up here to the US and there are even more poor and homeless people on the streets looking for minimum wage jobs just to attempt to get by.
Williston North Dakota my friend! Im not saying to move there permanently, but just go for a few months to try it out. If you dont like it then come on back. Even the guys working in McDonalds over there are making 25 an hour. I wouldnt wait for the economy to rebound, but move, adapt and overcome. The oil industry is going wild in North Dakota and many folks enjoying six figure salaries over there.
The average person isnt really suffering in the United States. Like I said, if you are reading this then you are not exactly suffering. My definition of suffering means you are living in the street, starving, etc.
If you have one of those Iphones or Android phones or all that expensive camera gear or Macbook...that aint suffering.
You mean 'sell out' to the exact same companies that are screwing us in the name of the All Mighty dollar? I think your missing the 'it's not just about $ and jobs' point this movement/revolution is making.
Let's go check out the ecology in that area a few yrs from now (after the raping of the land) and see if your temporary fortune is worth our childrens inheritance......
"hotrod"ha what a loser.... an iphone and macbook cost ehh $2500. Thats pocket change to u probably but the ones that have them worked their asses off to buy them, I know I did. The way I see it in this stupid country is you have to own one or the other these days to keep up with everything going on.
As I said, I know people whom are homeless, and I can see them if I go into those areas. There are many people whom are suffering, and I myself have trouble with the unemployment rate being so high because then employers can pay less and less for jobs because so many need work.
Well, the issue with homeless people moving to North Dakota is that it is what, 13F right now there. It isn't weather people can set up and survive through. (which is why many homeless are living on the streets in warmer states like CA so they don't freeze to death) It isn't a bad idea for some people to perhaps consider moving who have the means to survive and rent a place for a few months while they look for a job. But you have to understand it isn't reasonable for everyone. Many who are living paycheck to paycheck aren't wanting to risk freezing to death And some are surviving off of social networks that they have, which they would loose if they moved.
And as I said, even if I do have a place to live right now, that doesn't mean I shouldn't be concerned about the economy or what other people are going through. In fact, I think people who are ok SHOULD care about others and about what is going on.
If you can understand 'rapidly' deregulated market-led petrol-based globalization and everything that comprises and confounds its existence, then you will understand what OWS is partially about. However, our economic framework is only one part of the problem; government and the legislative process is broken. If you cannot conceptualize, start reading the numbers.
They interviewed several Occupiers on the news and it seems like each had a different answer as to what its really about. I think its just a tantrum of some spoiled kids who have a fair to good situation right now, but their situation isnt great or majestic so they do the "sit in" thing. Well, if you are reading this from your mac or iphone then, honestly, are things really that bad for ya?
We see ourselves losing ground; I personally have seen this in my local community and I've seen my friends lose jobs to outsourcing and this trend continues. When does it stop? We are matched up against 3 billion hungry competitors (India and China) with socialized education and health care while America's costs continue to grow exponentially in those areas. The general rule today is that money influences legislation, and people or groups with more money, have more power to influence legislation their way. This movement is the beginning of a larger power struggle between those who want governance by the people vs. those who want governance by imbedded powerful $ interests in Washington. Globalization equalization is occurring slowly and it's not pretty to see people around you fall into lower socioeconomic classes.
I have traveled the wold too. What I have seen is that the faces of poverty are the same no matter where you are, the only difference is how well the Government hides that population. The poor in America are just as hungry, our children die every day in gang and drug related violence, and people die every winter from exposure while they are in their own homes.
We have EVERY right to protest. Unlike the other countries on your itenerary, our foundational documents specifically give us the right to speak out against the government when we feel they are not equitably representing the people. I would even go so far as to say, that based on our Countries origins, it is not just my right but my duty to protest against such injustice.
Well Said!
Gang and drug related violence are people problems. The same people who have gotten us into this ditch. The same ones who are bitching burning and rioting. Our countrys origin had nothing to do with poor people doing poor things getting mad at well off people doing smart and responsible things. Please tell me about the government organizations that work to cover up poverty.
Corporate greed and political corruption, those just "people problems" created by poor peple doing poor things? For just one example, they forced the Native Americans onto reservations that are deffinitely not on the tour package. Then we can head into the rural areas of the south where the infrastructure is so poor that most of the time you can't even reach the communities. We won't go into the inner city issues because we all know any major population is supposed to have people sleeping in subways, parking garages and under bridges. All you have to do to see poverty, is look. However, they tend to keep that kind of rabble off 5th Ave. and out of the country clubs.
Here are the two points I am willing to cede:
1.) The government has no specific agency that 'hides' poor people.
2.) That as long as you stay within the insulated boundaries your wealth affords you, you are pretty likely to not encounter the populations I have described.
I am sure its easy to cede points when they are assumptions and opinions. Number two is both.
Assumtions and opinions can both end up being factual. Are you saying that you make 11,000 per year and live in a ghetto, or was I a little closer to the mark?
We are not mad at people acting responsibly and doing the right thing. If they had been respnsible, they wouldn't have needed a bailout; and if they had done the right thing we wouldn't be in the economic turmoil that we are now facing. The only control I have had over these larger issues is my vote. That hasn't served me much better than spitting in the wind.
Again you embarras yourself. Are you insinuationg i have ro be poor to see whats going on around me while i work my ass off everyday? You need to research this crisis you blabber about and see why it happened. You are uninformed and being used.
Thank you for calling me stupid and small minded. I forgot to repeat my daily mantra of self degradation and deprication.
By the way I must have missed the memo from the crips saying our gang union had picked the people we should vote for.
The impoverished people of this country are not the ones that got us into this mess. Had you come from that environment, you wouldn't have made the statements that you did. If you voted for these politicians, no matter the party affiliation, you contributed far more to the problem than any ten welfare recipients. I am not abrigating my responsibility, I did vote, I purchased things not made in America,I didn't demand change sooner, I contributed to the problem as much as anyone else. Let me know when you are ready to accept responsibility, if only through apathy, for the situation of our country, and further when you are going to make an effort to set things right.
Well look at your posts willo, all I did was call them what they were.
Do not continue to twist my words if you wish to have an intelligent conversation.
I see it everyday willo, since I can remember and still everyday on park street. I give what I can when I can but when someone has the balls to tell me I or someone else isnt giving enough, that really grinds my gears. That is where your bleeding heart is showing its colors, when you act as if your better then other because you want to give. If you like to give so much then how about making donations to charities, at least then you know where its going.
With all this free time you have to post here you could be working in soup kitchens at homeless shelters, doing some kind of volounteer work, hell you could be rallying others to your cause to bring forth your own candidates, be it for city, state, or congress, and have them elected. If there were enough of you behind this fringe cause the latter would be very plausible.
After all my research and finding out where the movement really came from, who is prodding it, whos running this site, and whos coming up with these random dates. I can say I am truely sorry to the real Americans with real issues in this movement, it has been hijacked by the real enemy, but the only thing that will set things right is whatever will get these kids off the street, back home and job searching. Damn the mean spritiedness, Im tired of that defense, get your asses off the streets.
One more thing to note. It is a good thing that Martin Luther King, Jr. didn't listen and get his ass off the street. Or Margaret Meade , or Susan B. Anthony, or the abolitionists, or Ben Franklin, or Thomas Jefferson, or George Washington....
Do not dishonor those people. Research, comparison and critical thinking, try them.
We are gaining the support to make you eat your words. With all the time I spend on here I have worked harder not to find out who started or is driving the movement, but spent my time reading the posts of people who are tired of the status quo. I do not embarass myself for standing up for what I believe in, I believe I am trying to set a laudible example by doing so. I don't believe that Glen Beck has some crystal ball just like I don't expect the tea party to stand up for gay marriage. For the first time, in a long time, there is a group making noise about something that really has the chance to bring positive changes to our country, all we have to do is seize the opportunity. I shouldn't be punished for being an idealist. I personally have absolutely no illusions about whether I am 'better' than anyone else or that I have some kind of moral authority. All I have is my voice. I did not twist your words, I paraphrased back to you the message that you got across. Just so you know, the posts that I leave here do not detract from my job. I am working hard to raise my children. The pay sucks and there are no vacations, but I promise that the perks outweigh your paycheck.
Thank you for wasting my time.
Im not sure what area of the United States you are living in. I do not live a sheltered existence myself. I drive around everyday, I know the people in my community...I go to church and speak with the people there. There are both good parts and bad parts of my community and its in everyway an average place for the most part. I have also traveled around the United States to many places. I have not met anyone who lives as bad as they do in some of these third world countries. The people who are homeless here are usually mentally ill and its usually obvious as to why they are that way. People are homeless in third world countries because it really is that bad there.
Hey, if you are in a bad situation then I can help you out with a job. Just pm with a message and I can assist you in that regard if you are willing to work.
I am in the Northern Midwest. Our unemployment rates are in the teens, and for every job they say we gained, it seems we have lost three. One family I know has three generations in a 2bdrm apt., 3 children, a baby and 4 adults. Our shelters are so full people are getting turned away. People are desperate enough they even robbbed the food bank. All this within the capital of the state. We have people, able bodied and willing to work standing on corners with signs "I will work a full day for one meal." At least in. Mexico, you could go out to the pueblitas and build your own home out of hand made clay blocks. The had a dirt floor, but they had a roof.
You say that there is no need to protest because everyone lives fairly well. Must we wait until everyone does not before we start protesting. Just last week, I read an article that showed how much the middle class has shrunk. If that were fifty percent due to the middle class rising in income, that would be one thing; but it is not. Most of the missing middle class, fell to the bottom. How long do we have to let things get worse before we protest to make them better.
The 1% are the 1% because they make more than half of all the nation's wealth. That is what distinguishes them. Yet, they pay LESS than half of all the nation's income tax. So, it is well past time to protest and to end the Bush Tax Cuts that created this disparity in the first place.
(For a more developed argument on that, you can read: http://thegreatrecession.info/blog/2011/11/bushwhacked-by-the-bush-tax-cuts-for-the-rich )
With real unemployment being something around 16% (because the unemployment figures do not count any who are still unemployed but simply dropped off the roll due to exceeding the limits of their benefits), the soup lines should be long enough for you soon. Meanwhile, some choose NOT to let it get that bad without a protest.
--Knave Dave http://TheGreatRecession.info/blog
Just because life is a little better does it mean that you should ignore the facts? No doubt that you are ignorant of the corruption and greed of your government. Just because you can buy things and maybe have a job does not mean that you have to be completely blind of what is happening in the government. You are one of those content people that one day will wake up and realized that what you called freedom and democracy was just an illusion and you were just a casualty. I advise you to educate yourself. Nobody is asking for jobs or money that they do not deserve, by education and work. What we are asking is for a government that is not influenced by the greed of the corporations.
I simply can't believe so many people took this bait!
About GREED, the government is corrupted. Corporations own the government.
I don't want an hourly wage job I want a six figure job
I dont deny our gov't needs reform, but I also believe people need to take individual responsibilities as well. For instance, those that have chosen sociology and psychology (and other "fulfillment" areas) as majors, Im not quite sure what you expected when it came time to find a job in your field. It has been known for some time that the availability of jobs in those areas are very minimal and does not pay that well. The issue of over consumption, it is an individuals choice as to how they spend their money and use the tool of credit. If an individual only makes a certain amount of money, they should not be spending outside of their means. The largest issue with the housing market is people buying homes they cannot afford (this is also the banks & other financial institutions fault for approving these loans). If you're scraping the end of your paychecks each month for bills after paying your mortgage, than your mortgage is obviously too high. Has anyone every considered saving their money anymore? And what about those that do not have jobs or full time jobs because they want to be eligible for welfare and other social services? Those people that choose to be poor because the system will take care of them? How can people say Rick Perry created jobs no one wants? Why are Americans too good to work service jobs? My mother worked a service job her whole life and raised two children just fine. Yes, we did not have cable, internet, cell phones, designer clothes etc but we were happy. I have been working 1-2 jobs since my sophomore year of high school up through graduation of college. I was able to save money every year to pay off my student loans. I am now debt free and working for a great company making sufficient salary wheres there's option for mobility, saving for a new car and living within my means. I went without expensive clothes, an expensive car, or any other things I could not afford throughout school. But now I am debt free and able to buy things here and there. I am only 23 years old and I do not expect to be making $100,000. I only went through 4 years of school. Having your bachelors today does not guarantee you a job. I don't plan on having children because its not within my means. Some of the demands of these people make no logical sense, raising minimum wage is going to make it harder for businesses to employ people resulting in loss of jobs. Are we trying to fix the public or the private sector? And what about occupy celebrities or athletes? And people say foreign affairs do not pertain to us but if we are nuked and millions of people die, then I believe these people will care. They say they want a democracy yet majority of people are not knowledgeable enough to make these decisions. They care about ME and vote for the person who will do the most for ME. This goes for both classes, not just the poor. The Middle East is a difficult situation and it concerns the entire world, not just the Middle East. Our country is not only concerned with its citizens, but the rest of the world for globalization is inevitable. Yes, I believe there needs to be some reform in the political system as well as public policies, however, I do not feel they should go to the extreme as those occupiers are requesting. Someone suggested not allowing children to inherit their parents fortunes?? does that mean no child should inherit anything from their parents? for thats the only fair scenario. A person cannot help where they were born, however America allows for social mobility. would you rather this be a place which allows no social mobility and everyone makes the same income? you have no way of making more income, you only get what the state feels will suffice. Steve jobs created one of the most innovative businesses around, should he suffer for his hard work and brilliance? Do you not agree he made Americans' daily lives easier, more entertaining? People are taking risks. Wall street, its investing, its all about taking risks. You are not guaranteed millions of dollars if you are not intelligent and do not know how to gage an appropriate risk. These people work very hard at what they do. Majority of these people in the top percent made the right risks. What risks are the 99% making? Going to college for your sociology degree? thats not a very smart risk...Taking out a loan you can barely afford so you have the house of your dreams? thats not a very smart risk...Having unprotected sex? Thats not a very smart risk..yet people seem to be doing it. All of these assumptions obviously do not pertain to everyone, but they all add up. I feel people need to start looking at themselves as an individual and say 'what can i do to change for the better?' what am i doing wrong that has put me in this situation? How should I go about fixing this problem?" These are the same questions our government needs to ask itself. But before the government can do anything to fix YOU, YOU must try to fix yourself.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/19/us-lobbying-banks-idUSTRE7AI0YA20111119
another person advocating that america become a third world country.
Personally, I'm 68 years old, so to me being accused of being a spoiled kid is a compliment.
The thing is you can be a kid in an adults body or an adult in a kids body...its ultimately up to you.
If I had my preference I'd be somebody with a adult's experiences and a kids values in the body of a healthy 30 year old. Unfortunately I'm in rather poor health, undoubtedly due to a life of self indulgence. That said I think OWS is great and our main tactical issue right now ought to be figuring out how to get sleeping bags and tents back into Zuccotti Square.
You have an amazing life coming up from a broken home in the projects of Baltimore. God blessed you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
You are exactly right. The problem is though they can't afford the new iphone or canon camera or even that new house but they buy it anyway then go protest that they are in debt.
I stand by my opinion.
Most of the 1% will. Good thing you are NOT the majority.
Spot on. Symptomatic tantrums continue with the inability to see beyond their wet eyes......
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You all dont know what you are starting, if you all were actually the 99% this country would completely socialist. It's a good thing that you are the 1% that are Anti-American idiots that are too lazy to work hard for money like the rich do and are so lazy that instead of working you hang out with all you friends and protest to get money given to you.....Idiots
We have no problem working! WE have a problem with how the rich get rich. Not by working but by screwing the people below them and the enviornment for their own personal gains. How much $ does one person really need? Can't take it with you when you go and I don't think God accepts Visa!
The people of Wall Street who it seems you are most upset with dont have to screw anyone or the the environment to make money by investing... it seems like who you should be more concerned with is not rich individuals but with large corporations( not that thats my view but it would make more sense).
Pretty much sums it up. Add in the bleeding heart gullable americans that are so easily guilted. The anarchists, the revolutionaries, people that just dont care or got nothin better to do. And we all know what the unions are about. Then you have the whole makeup of this crowd and their sympathizers. There arent enough of them to make any difference at the polls so they cause unrest and antagonize cops into violence to gain support. Its dispicable and spoiled little kiddies is the only other place ive seen similar tactics.
Wow really? As more become awakenend the numbers will grow....... Your right, I have nothing better to do than educate myself on what is truly going on in this country and abroad, To stand in my belief of what I feel to be true and correct. As do you....
C U across the lines......
What about the infiltrators of peacful protest who intentionaly provoke Police action as a way to shed a bad light on this movement?
Are you just upset that these tactics have backfired and only propell this event further?
To each their own...... Spoiled is not how I would describe most of America.
I dont think im upset or have even hinted at such. Im not the one being used. C u across what lines lol now you have put yourself into one of those groups. Sad